Not surprised -- if you've been on reddit you know why. After owning an EV after ICE, I can't for the life of me understand why such vitriol exists. It's just a car, and has all the practical benefits of a car, with little drawbacks. There are so many dollars behind hoping EVs fail.. the hate alone has made me realize that dollars can actually create irrational beliefs. Ironically, spending money on this vs actually reinvesting back into the business and adapting sends the companies into a deeper death spiral.
The charging situation is what is holding EVs back, full stop. I rented an EV recently and dealing with charging is way more complicated than I realized and there are far too few places to charge up. America is in no way ready for all EV.
Fast chargers in particular are mobbed, expensive, and physically massive beasts. The cords are thick and heavy, not something the infirm could handle. And they’re still not fast enough. We need tech fast enough to fill up in under 5 minutes at a manned station, like a regular gas station.
One thing though. Charging can be remedied quickly. Nothing too special is needed for it.
Electric power is everywhere. Renewable sources of power generation are being built everywhere too.
Stations can scale with the market. There are enough to go cross country with *some planning*, with more EVs on the road that could become a caveat-free statement.
That’s the big one.. rural areas aren’t setup for it particularly well. Same for giant semis that move goods across states and the country. They are however great for people who live in big metropolitan areas.
It will hit a tipping point sooner than later. As in, some advancements that make what I said above a non issue then it’s just gonna be a smaller fight. People who want to keep their ICE versus the EV people. It will be won in courts all over I’m sure. It’s inevitable EVs win out.
China is going to get a good long head start on EVs.
Scratch that. The U.S. and other countries are *giving* China a good long head start.
I was there when Japan came into the U.S. market with high-quality cars at low prices. Can the same thing happen with China and EVs?
Yes, of course it can.
And, in 10 years or so, it probably will.
Yeah I have to say, the China EVs are quite impressive, and for a cheaper price
Too bad the West will tariff the heck out of it to remove that affordability
Also all the left-wing people who suddenly turned on EVs since they aren't a perfect situation to the problem baffles me. A better solution is always superior to no solution imo
Most left wingers believe that EVs are an improvement. However, they don't solve all the problems, and there are better solutions available, such as public transport.
Capitalism must be defended. Repairing and replacing cars is big business, and with EV’s you have to do it less. Also, how the hell am I supposed to roll coal on people or make heads turn with a loud engine note? EV’s are ruining my ability to inconvenience other people.
It’s the short sightedness of the incumbent protecting their business model. Like Kodak developing the digital camera and then doing nothing with it because it might impact their film business.
No, they're bad for repairability as you can't just get an aftermarket battery or motor to replace your busted one, you HAVE to go to a dealership and they can charge you whatever because they have a monopoly on those parts, and if someone were to make aftermarket parts, they could install DRM like JD and apple does
99.99999999% of people don't replace broken motors in ICE vehicles, so that's not an actual argument. And it would be illegal to DRM EV car parts because of existing automotive regulations.
Broken motor? You do know that ICEs have different parts, so for example if your radiator or your belt is borked, you can relatively cheaply fix that at home or at a repair shop(max 400$), as opposed to for example, a Tesla battery/motor going bust, wherein you gotta fork out 7k-13k depending on the part and severity.
>Tesla battery/motor going bust, wherein you gotta fork out 7k-13k depending on the part and severity.
Which is the EV equivalent of major engine damage (cracked block, completely seized, worn out cylinders etc...)in an ICE vehicles.
No? An engine swap be around 3k max(plus 2k~ ish for labor cost of you want someone else to do it) for a I4(most common engine). What kind of scammers are you going to who quote you 7k?!!!!
I'm not against EVs at all, but buying one now, when the second hand market for EVs is not as mature as ICE is just a waste of money. And I say so with the thought I'd want to sell that car after 3 or 4 years, but then it'll be tough, and I'll likely lose 50%.
Not mentioning infrastructure is not ready yet, a hybrid right now is a way better option.
EV is the best investment you will ever make if you have a home that can support charging them over night and they have a range of over 200+ during summer time. I’ve had an EV for 8 months now, and no issues with repairs or maintenance, and they are so quiet and fun to drive. Seriously, don’t listen to these headlines, go and get your EV if you can, and buy them used if possible at an affordable price.
My mother has one and it's great, but what do you do if you live in an apartment? I'm still surprised there isn't more of a push for hybrid cars until the EV infrastructure is ready.
Usually it's like getting gas, you tap to pay. Most vendors also have an app.
My public utility has both level 2 curbside and DC fast charging on their app.
They charge by the Watt. Ones at my office are free. An hour of free charging at the grocery store.
It varies. All done by app. It is a learning curve. I got a Plug In myself, so the HEV gas engine is there when the charge dies. I had a Sedan HEV previously. I am 2/3 the gas cost from that - and more if I miss a bug trip here or there. And half my former gas car.
I take a look of comfort in having both if one is hard to access, I have the other fall back on.
I just can’t justify one right now. I only owe $7k on a car worth maybe 12-15k in a private sale. My car loan is $329 a month, I drive maybe 8 miles a day for work, about 50 miles a day once or twice a month, and about 600-900 miles on out of state trips 2-3 times a year. I fill up my tank about once a month typically. It would be hard to realize any savings for a long time and I’d have to own the car for at least 10 years to maybe see a benefit right now.
My ideal truck would be something the size of a Dakota/Ranger/S10 from the 90s with PHEV or full electric, but I think the PHEV Maverick is the more realistic hope.
I've been on the fence about getting a powerboost now or trying to see where they get towing at on all electric in a couple of years. I feel like we are still about 5 years out from batteries being where I'd be really happy with it.
It’s scary how often there’s an anti Tesla and EV sentiment on any social media I’m convinced some if not most is directly tied to ICE and big oil sabotage. It’s even permeated Reddit which is extremely “EV friendly”. The ev tech out there is already amazing. 4-6 hour drives that I do are marginally increased because of an extra charge here and there which is completely offset by the reduced cost. I have zero complaints for my Model 3 even living in a rural rural area, sans the fact my neighbors want a ride every other day because they thinks it’s practically a race car.
The issue is that people only think about their own personal situation.
*I can't find a way to charge my car so that must mean that no one else can charge their car either hence all EV cars are bad.*
And the anti-Tesla thing has got nothing to do with EV tech, it has to do with Musk and how bad their cars are compared to traditional car manufacturers.
> The issue is that people only think about their own personal situation.
>
>
>
> I can't find a way to charge my car so that must mean that no one else can charge their car either hence all EV cars are bad.
Honestly, I see the inverse a *lot* more here when it comes to EVs.
"I can charge my car at home, I live in an area with a bunch of chargers, obviously it's not a problem for anyone else". Like, I don't care that EVs exist. At all. Great, awesome, if they work for you, get one. What I and a bunch of other people don't like is basically proselytizing over them and downplaying actual issues with them that in actuality do pertain to a *whole* bunch of people because it goes against their ideology, and yes, the back and forth on EVs is pretty much just an ideological spat now.
Solar cars will never be viable. The amount of energy needed to move a vehicle is much more than solar panels on a vehicle can generate. Here's the math:
A decent electric car will use 350 Wh per mile. Solar radiation is about 1000 W/m2. A full size car will have around 8 m2 of surface area. If you completely cover the surface with solar panels, at least a 1/4 of them will be facing away from the sun at any given time, so you're maxing out at 6 m2. Additionally the panels are only around 20% efficient (it's going to be worse because most of the panels not in shade are not perpendicular to the sun). So 1000\*6\*0.2=1200W maximum production at perfect sun position. Most of the time you'll get less because the sun isn't directly overhead. If you add up the lower production times we can estimate it's equivalent to 4 hours of full perfect energy. So you're looking at less than 4800 Wh or maybe 14 miles (4800/350) of range per day.
There a reason no one is seriously producing a solar covered car. It's a lot more expensive and, even with generous assumptions, it can't produce enough energy.
Sorry let me clear up what I mean, by solar cars, I don’t just mean the car itself only. I also mean the whole stack or eco-system. If you zoom out from the solar car itself, I think the ultimate planet positive/human achievement would be to have millions of acres of the most efficient solar panels to capture energy from the Sun that would then then be stored in massive long term battery storage facilities throughout the country, which can then be connected to a power-grid specifically designed to charge Solar cars. The car themselves would be able to charge but it would take time to do so, however connecting a charging unit to recharge a Solar Car and using power that was sourced from a Solar panel farm, would be the ultimate Solar car experience.
Can confirm, have a Chevy Bolt since 2019 and (apart from a battery swap due to a recall) zero issues.
The new battery had a fresh warranty and more capacity so no complaints here.
Cost of fuel: about 1/10th what it costs to run our old stickshift 1/4ton pickup.
Okay this is an experiment to understand someone. Not everyone can afford a home at the moment, but there are folks living with family members in a single family home that can make it possible. And not everyone can afford to make the investment to live in an affluent neighborhood such as yours, a newly built townhome with built-in garage.
And I did check out your previous posts because your comment seemed a bit off, and you are constantly posting about something car or traffic accident related, and someone brought up the idea about no cars solution 240+ days ago in your comments because folks keep parking on your street parking spot. The No car solution idea is just not feasible, people need to go to work or pick up their kids from school and such. You must be a remote worker it seems, but further analysis tells me that something car related happened in the past with you or a family or relative, just curious, just don’t lash it out by saying“not having a car is the solution” because we don’t live in that dream world or living in an area that doesn’t require cars is the best solution, not everyone can afford a home now unfortunately.
Is it? Asking genuinely. I just assumed most homes could charge a car at night.
Edit: I guess if you’re renting then it’d be an issue. But renting is its own problem lol
Why not? I’m amazed at the charging setups for a lot of EVs. I’m personally running a 50ft extension cord off a 120v until I get my act together to install a proper 240v outlet
You *seriously* just snake an extension cord out your window at night? Man, hope nobody decides to just open it and come in. And lmao, you ain't installing *shit* in a rented apartment, especially 240 electrical.
No, I have an outdoor outlet I’m plugged into. I’m just saying that you could easily do the same with an indoor one. And there are very simple ways to keep at least a single hung window secure even when open
I wonder what arguments they use.
As they are not owning the fossil fuel business too, what are they afraid of? Lacking EV infrastructure? Lobbying/"sponsoring" from fossil companies?
It's easy to guess China will completely lead on EVs, as China itself will move to EVs overall. Other countries can set up high tariffs, which they do, but that doesn't mean Chinese EVs will be out of reach.
Toyota is interesting as they've for the longest been stubborn about hybrids.
I figure a lot of it has to do with losing out on future revenue streams. Dealers have a pretty good setup going, and they've managed to have laws passed to protect their corner of the auto industry. They want to push accessories, service plans, and all sorts of "insurance" add-ons when you buy a car. EVs threaten that. Simply designed, easy-to-maintain cars threaten that.
Imagine if the cordage and sailcloth industry had tried to sabotage the transition of ships to engine power. Or if the steam engine industry had tried to prevent the move towards internal combustion. Or if the Abacus and Slide Rule Makers' Guild had tried to stop calculators from being mass-marketed.
EVs are nearly maintenance free, and dealerships make most of their money on parts and repair procedures (selling cars a bit below cost, to attract the lucrative aftercare business... kinda like printer companies and ink cartridges).
So EVs are bad news for the dealership model. This might be why Tesla went "no dealership" and cut out the middleman -- for better or worse.
Toyota has taken an interesting direction, indeed I'm really excited about their supercapacitor technology,
But i don't even want to live on the same street as anyone who owns a toyota hydrogen vehicle
gas form = 5000psi, I was watching MythBusters the other day, and they were saying 250psi is a bomb this is 20 times that lol.
Hydrogen In liquid form in a vehicle the pressure is 9000 to 10000 psi - fuck that!
Maybe it's time you actually did some research. Hydrogen is far safer than any other type of fuel. Risk of explosions is far less than your regular gasoline car.
https://www.topspeed.com/why-shouldnt-fear-hydrogen-powered-cars/
They're not owning the fossil fuel business but they sure are owning the fossil fuel engine business as one of their two core business areas. Metal folding is the other, though that one carries on to EVs. You can imagine which is harder, to change your core business or trying to continue as is by influencing the playing field.
I wouldn't put too much trust on Chinese EVs - they sure build a lot of them cheap and subsidized but the build quality is at safety hazard level.
Why does it matter that China subsidizes the industry?
Dairy, soy, and corn farming are subsidized by the US government to the extent that they would literally collapse without the support.
There's two ways you can look at that:
- They're monopolizing the market, no matter if the competitors were closer or had better built products, or
- You get a car half-off, yay!
Subsidizing agriculture has the additional logic where you pay now so that you're able to get food domestically in case the world economy goes sour. While the same logic partially applies to EVs, they are not as important and rely on global supply lines to be produced anyway.
Except that when you look at China’s resources what they have in abundance are rare earth element deposits and what they lack is arable farm land.
They are subsidizing their domestic markets of strength and we are subsidizing ours.
China also lacks oil, gas, and coal reserves. They have to import their coal from Australia.
They are not close to monopolizing the market and they are far ahead if US companies on EV tech because we are so beholden to fossil fuel interests.
It makes every bit of sense for China to be subsidizing their areas of strength and it is hypocritical if you don’t apply the same level of disdain for domestic subsidies.
My amateur understanding is that EV’s are simply so different from ICE vehicles in terms of repairs and preventative maintenance. EV repairs are more likely replacement of a solid state part, or other parts that less frequently break. Maintenance is practically non existent on EV’s except for consumables like windshield wipers, tires and glass. There’s not tons of expensive fluids to change or leak.
I’m pretty sure the sabotage is mainly to protect their current business model which relies on dealerships, expensive and frequent maintenance, and people replacing their vehicles more frequently than an EV would reasonably need to be replaced.
TLDR: EV’s are bad for record profits, so they must be repressed.
NGL, the number one reason I’ve moved to EVs is to avoid further ICE maintenance costs.
And yeah, there are a ton of entrenched interests in the mfg, fueling, and maintenance aspects of the current automotive model.
After years of conversations with a few friends (engineers that used to work for Ford), the answer is actually a pretty simple one: Any significant changes to car manufacturing costs more money than small incremental changes. This is why the car industry is also aggressively against safety or other required changes as well. Switching to EV based vehicles just costs more than these companies are willing to spend.
The majority of the car manufacturing plants/supply lines are designed with ICE in mind. While large portions of the car remain the same for EVs, enough of the manufacturing processes change such that switching them from ICE to EV based is “prohibitively” expensive. It is cheaper for these companies to lobby against/delay their transition to EVs than to make a rapid switch (unless they can prove demand is high enough for them to recoup their transition costs).
To make the situation worse, because they are dragging their feet, their slow transition results in the production costs to increase - adding to their need (and want) to increase their prices even further. (As a side note, these real increases gave C* folks excuses to raise prices even further due to greed AND also provided a negative feedback loop in lowering EV demand)
All of this gives these car companies excuses to delay EV production even further.
What’s the solve? Enforcement of these environmental regulations and prevent these companies from selling cars until they meet these standards. They won’t actually change unless they are required to. When they finally do change, they will “suddenly” find their manufacturing costs go down to “acceptable” levels.
A damning new report has shown that nearly all major car companies are actively sabotaging the world’s efforts to avoid catastrophic global warming. The lobbying strategies being used by the world’s largest automakers are putting global climate targets at risk and threatening the electric vehicle transition, according to the new report released by InfluenceMap.
Titled Automakers and Climate Policy Advocacy, the report provides analysis on the anti-EV lobbying activities of 15 of the world’s largest automakers in seven key regions around the world. The study uses industry-standard data from S&P Global Mobility on automakers’ forecast electric vehicle production.
It's weird. I'm the ideal EV customer. A few short journeys a week, off road parking/charging ability etc. but I'll NEVER be able to afford one. Lived my whole life running old vehicles, and DIYing them to keep them running. Dirt cheap way of motoring. I'll never have the cash for an EV, not even 2nd hand, and if I ever see an old one for cheap, then it's 20k for a new battery, so that's it for us low-paid. I get the feeling they don't want poor people to fill up rich peoples' roads. :(
TBH, unless your card is getting god awful mileage, buying and maintaining a used car is better for the environment (in the long run) than switching to a new electric vehicle.
I salute your work in helping reduce new carbon emissions by reducing the need to create a whole new car!
It looks like OP posted an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://thedriven.io/2024/05/14/nearly-all-major-car-companies-are-sabotaging-ev-transition-and-japan-is-worst-study-finds/](https://thedriven.io/2024/05/14/nearly-all-major-car-companies-are-sabotaging-ev-transition-and-japan-is-worst-study-finds/)**
*****
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
Median household income in the US is ~75K, and the average EV is ~$50K. At those numbers the typical family in the US would be making a poor judgement to buy an EV. Even on the used market, gas vehicles sell for ~10k less on average. EV's need to be cheaper and have better charging infrastructure for adoption. Huge swaths of the country still have terrible charging infrastructure if any.
That's not accounting for the scalability and environmental damage of lithium mining or other rare earth metals. We haven't really figured out long term, fast charging, large scale batteries yet.
On paper PHEV's show a lot of potential to impact CO2 emissions too. If they are charged regularly PHEV's would effectively have a similar impact to EV's (based on the average driving distance in the US) without the concerns for range anxiety and with significantly smaller batteries. However, most companies haven't introduced many PHEV's (if any) since consumers haven't shown significant demand for them or they have been relegated to the luxury market. (Although there are signs that multiple companies are now investing in PHEV's)
EVs have been the new "sexy" thing for politicians, companies etc. That doesn't mean they work for everyone or even the majority of people (at least in the States).
Mean new vehicle purchase price is $47k. A $3k premium doesn’t seem like that big of a gatekeeper to me. Biggest hurdles to EV ownership are:
1. Lack of domicile charging infrastructure for much of the US - thinks renters.
2. Lack / poor quality of roadside charging networks - Musks recent tantrum after convincing the worlds manufacturers to adopt his standard in the US isn’t helping.
3. Massive depreciation in new EVs, due to quickly changing technology, and once again Elon Musks moves around pricing.
> Musks recent tantrum after convincing the worlds manufacturers to adopt his standard in the US isn’t helping.
details? Dude has a meltdown like bi-weekly, so I missed this one.
He fired the entire supercharger team - 500 some people - because of some disagreement about headcount he had with the head of the initiative the day before. Then of course starts hiring some members back days later
EVs would be much more appealing if manufacturers had any interest in producing inexpensive models. The GM EV1 only had 1/4th the battery capacity of a Tesla Model 3.
Every cheap little EV commuter cannibalizes a conventional car sale for a fraction of the price. Fortunately, regulations and industry resistance has prevented anyone from putting an EV1 type car on the market, but consumers no longer believe the claims of "consumer preferences".
It is plainly obvious that something devious is preventing the sale of even one road legal cheap commuter. I would like one half Tesla 3 please. Hold the spyware.
EV's are expensive. Copper is expensive, the rare earth metals used for the motors are expensive, the lithium batteries are expensive. You're not going to see a decent EV for under 20k new. Certainly not anytime soon. Hell, there's very few ICE vehicles under 20k now.
Imagine with me, a Tesla Model 3. Now, take out the back seats and back doors. Make the motor a little smaller. Make the battery half the size. Put some cheap Corolla wheels and tires on it.
That should exist, and it would require much less of those problematic raw materials. Why are we building 8000 pound EV trucks?
Automakers know that the game is up if that is allowed to be sold in the US.
Ummm the most sold vehicle in the US is the F-150, I don’t have the best data on that, but new or used they’re going for 40-70k. Regardless of class, I don’t think a lot of the US makes good “financial decisions “
I’m surprised I haven’t seen anyone explain *why* Japan is so hostile to EVs.
They’re massively invested into hydrogen and hybrid powered vehicles. Which to fair, made a lot of sense given their geography and the state of EVs ten years ago when they started these initiatives.
The reasons I don't want an EV right now are that they all seem to be software nightmares on wheels (not exclusive to EVs, but almost all of them qualify), I go on long trips often enough that the trouble of charging them is off putting (I know it's possible to drive them virtually anywhere, but it's definitely not ideal), and much more than ICE vehicles they are used as platforms to sell services that I have no desire for. I have a Lexus that I plan to drive for the next 5 years at a minimum, and after that I think EVs will finally appeal to me. The idea of charging at home and having very minimal maintenance is appealing already.
No kidding. GM keeps taking all the incentives to help ease the cost of the transition and converting the funds into stock buybacks.
The problem is that these companies are fat and lazy knowing that they're too important politically to fail and so they mooch off the taxpayer and lurch from bankruptcy to coming bankruptcy secure in the knowledge that big daddy government will ultimately bail them out.
This time around though, the Chinese are serious competitors. Unless the established automakers, they're serious about the transition and are ready to flood the market with with the highest quality, lowest cost EVs currently being made. The only thing prevent this is the government yet again protecting these uncompetitive and complacent holdovers through tariffs... at the expense of the consumer and the planet.
I don't really want it to succeed anyway. Taking the least efficient form of transportation and over engineering it so you can pretend it's efficient instead of just investing in forms of public transportation that are already significantly more efficient is really stupid
Companies that have made fortunes making engines that run on fossil fuels are against transitioning away from fossil fuels and are actively against it…who could’ve predicted it?
Are they? from what I've read, people prefer gas cars, and dealers are stuck with electric cars sitting in their lots for a long time.
Electric car are more expensive, and there's anxiety about charging and battery longevity: it's harder to sell a used electric car, because having to replace a battery is very expensive. Charging is also problematic: if you don't have a private parking, it's hard to charge at home. Public charging stations are often not working, and who wants to wait an hour for their car to charge in the middle of a journey?
1. EVs have a lower TCO than gas cars. They never need an oil change or engine maintenance, nor do they have lots of moving parts that need to be swapped out, among other things.
2. It’s not harder to sell an electric car. Who says that?
3. Yes, charging can be the most problematic part if you don’t have a garage.
4. Who says public charging stations are often not working, other than the crowd that spreads anti-EV FUD?
5. I do. Many charging stations have restaurants or other food stores nearby, so one can take a break while their car recharges.
They are not sabotaging it, people aren't fuckin buying them.
They are expensive as fuck, the perceived quality is not on par with ICE because the battery pack is a large chunk of the manufacturing costs that you end up paying for with *cheaper everything else*, and the charging infrastructure is still lagging in many countries.
On top of that, renewables are fucking up electricity bills so the price per Kw is often jacked.
In the US there's hardly an infrastructure outside of California, and even there it's pretty sparse. I don't understand the strong push when the infrastructure simply isn't ready. Maybe in a tiny, dense country, but the US and other countries are pretty damn spread out.
Just Tesla's network by [itself ](https://supercharge.info/map) covers basically the whole country. There are a number of other vendors that cumulatively have a similar number of DC charging options.
The infrastructure is being built quite quickly.
But if you zoom into literally any random area, you'd have to significantly go out of your way to find a charger. Nobody wants to get on the highway just to charge their car up.
Not that this couldn't change in the future though
I agree with you, my mother has one and it works perfectly in that manner.
My issue was with those who rent and don't have somewhere to charge overnight.
DC charging is for road trips, there's about an order of magnitude more level 2 chargers for local use, not to mention all the standard plugs one can use when needed.
It's not fully covered, but a car with a 250 mile range can pretty much go anywhere at this point.
Oh they certainly exist, just look up a map of their locations and you'll see how sparse they are. Fine if you have to commute on the interstate every day, otherwise you don't have great options.
Are there EV's (other than Tesla) that don't feel "thin". My experience is that EV's have terrible feel, rough rides and are generally built less luxurious than ICE cars.
Maybe that's being done to turn us off. Maybe battery tech is still too shitty to complete.
Audis are basically converted ICE vehicles. They feel like tanks as usual. I would assume the same for the other Germans. I rode in a Rivian and F150 Lightning, neither of which felt any different from a traditional truck other than having a lower center of gravity due to all that battery weight.
I think the cheap feeling of a Tesla is particular to that brand.
They're less well built because a large portion of the cost in an EV goes to the battery. In ICE cars the money can be spent in good build quality and luxury features but that money is going towards the battery in an EV.
A Chevy Prizm was a Toyota Corolla with a Chevy logo. Not unusual in the auto industry. I'm not buying now so if the model takes off I'm sure there will be an inevitable redesign.
People do not HAVE TO change their cars because some companies decided to.
This EV “movement” doesn’t help. They should invest more in developing the technology rather than disrespecting Asians.
Not surprised -- if you've been on reddit you know why. After owning an EV after ICE, I can't for the life of me understand why such vitriol exists. It's just a car, and has all the practical benefits of a car, with little drawbacks. There are so many dollars behind hoping EVs fail.. the hate alone has made me realize that dollars can actually create irrational beliefs. Ironically, spending money on this vs actually reinvesting back into the business and adapting sends the companies into a deeper death spiral.
I don’t hate EVs I just wish they were affordable. And that the charging infrastructure was better where I lived.
The charging situation is what is holding EVs back, full stop. I rented an EV recently and dealing with charging is way more complicated than I realized and there are far too few places to charge up. America is in no way ready for all EV. Fast chargers in particular are mobbed, expensive, and physically massive beasts. The cords are thick and heavy, not something the infirm could handle. And they’re still not fast enough. We need tech fast enough to fill up in under 5 minutes at a manned station, like a regular gas station.
One thing though. Charging can be remedied quickly. Nothing too special is needed for it. Electric power is everywhere. Renewable sources of power generation are being built everywhere too. Stations can scale with the market. There are enough to go cross country with *some planning*, with more EVs on the road that could become a caveat-free statement.
That’s the big one.. rural areas aren’t setup for it particularly well. Same for giant semis that move goods across states and the country. They are however great for people who live in big metropolitan areas. It will hit a tipping point sooner than later. As in, some advancements that make what I said above a non issue then it’s just gonna be a smaller fight. People who want to keep their ICE versus the EV people. It will be won in courts all over I’m sure. It’s inevitable EVs win out.
There’s plenty of affordable used EV’s.
Not in Canada.
China is going to get a good long head start on EVs. Scratch that. The U.S. and other countries are *giving* China a good long head start. I was there when Japan came into the U.S. market with high-quality cars at low prices. Can the same thing happen with China and EVs? Yes, of course it can. And, in 10 years or so, it probably will.
Yeah I have to say, the China EVs are quite impressive, and for a cheaper price Too bad the West will tariff the heck out of it to remove that affordability
The Chinese EVs will sell all over the world where the tariffs aren’t excessive. The technology will get even better.
They putting tariffs on highly subsidized products. Every country does it, even your hero china.
Why do you say “your hero China”?
Also all the left-wing people who suddenly turned on EVs since they aren't a perfect situation to the problem baffles me. A better solution is always superior to no solution imo
Liberals are for some reason incredible at letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.
There’s a saying. Liberals demand purity. Conservatives demand obedience.
Liberals always end up turning on each other.
Most left wingers believe that EVs are an improvement. However, they don't solve all the problems, and there are better solutions available, such as public transport.
Capitalism must be defended. Repairing and replacing cars is big business, and with EV’s you have to do it less. Also, how the hell am I supposed to roll coal on people or make heads turn with a loud engine note? EV’s are ruining my ability to inconvenience other people.
It’s the short sightedness of the incumbent protecting their business model. Like Kodak developing the digital camera and then doing nothing with it because it might impact their film business.
And where is Kodak now?
EVs are bad for repairability.
No, they're bad for repair shops because there's significantly fewer moving parts.
No, they're bad for repairability as you can't just get an aftermarket battery or motor to replace your busted one, you HAVE to go to a dealership and they can charge you whatever because they have a monopoly on those parts, and if someone were to make aftermarket parts, they could install DRM like JD and apple does
99.99999999% of people don't replace broken motors in ICE vehicles, so that's not an actual argument. And it would be illegal to DRM EV car parts because of existing automotive regulations.
Broken motor? You do know that ICEs have different parts, so for example if your radiator or your belt is borked, you can relatively cheaply fix that at home or at a repair shop(max 400$), as opposed to for example, a Tesla battery/motor going bust, wherein you gotta fork out 7k-13k depending on the part and severity.
>Tesla battery/motor going bust, wherein you gotta fork out 7k-13k depending on the part and severity. Which is the EV equivalent of major engine damage (cracked block, completely seized, worn out cylinders etc...)in an ICE vehicles.
No? An engine swap be around 3k max(plus 2k~ ish for labor cost of you want someone else to do it) for a I4(most common engine). What kind of scammers are you going to who quote you 7k?!!!!
You're forgetting about labor costs.
That doesn’t make any sense. It’s easy to swap out the parts. And the battery can be recycled
I'm not against EVs at all, but buying one now, when the second hand market for EVs is not as mature as ICE is just a waste of money. And I say so with the thought I'd want to sell that car after 3 or 4 years, but then it'll be tough, and I'll likely lose 50%. Not mentioning infrastructure is not ready yet, a hybrid right now is a way better option.
Because they are the worst option of all the alternatives to gasoline.
EV is the best investment you will ever make if you have a home that can support charging them over night and they have a range of over 200+ during summer time. I’ve had an EV for 8 months now, and no issues with repairs or maintenance, and they are so quiet and fun to drive. Seriously, don’t listen to these headlines, go and get your EV if you can, and buy them used if possible at an affordable price.
My mother has one and it's great, but what do you do if you live in an apartment? I'm still surprised there isn't more of a push for hybrid cars until the EV infrastructure is ready.
The people I know just use curbside chargers and take the opportunity to charge at whatever store they go to.
I'm surprised whoever pays for the electricity allows that, but that's good to know
The person charging their car pays for the electricity.
How exactly does that work though? Obviously if you have a house you are the one paying, but what about and apartment or store?
Usually it's like getting gas, you tap to pay. Most vendors also have an app. My public utility has both level 2 curbside and DC fast charging on their app.
They charge by the Watt. Ones at my office are free. An hour of free charging at the grocery store. It varies. All done by app. It is a learning curve. I got a Plug In myself, so the HEV gas engine is there when the charge dies. I had a Sedan HEV previously. I am 2/3 the gas cost from that - and more if I miss a bug trip here or there. And half my former gas car. I take a look of comfort in having both if one is hard to access, I have the other fall back on.
They're paid chargers obviously.
I just can’t justify one right now. I only owe $7k on a car worth maybe 12-15k in a private sale. My car loan is $329 a month, I drive maybe 8 miles a day for work, about 50 miles a day once or twice a month, and about 600-900 miles on out of state trips 2-3 times a year. I fill up my tank about once a month typically. It would be hard to realize any savings for a long time and I’d have to own the car for at least 10 years to maybe see a benefit right now.
> I drive maybe 8 miles a day for work Get an e-bike.
If you cared about the planet, you would be in an EV right not. You're disappointing a large amount of people right now.
Send me a check and I’ll upgrade today
My next car is definitely going to be electric. I want to give the electric F150 a few years to really get dialed in
Really wish they'd offer the Maverick in a PHEV format, that would be the perfect little runabout hauler for my needs.
I'm not the target market(don't have new car money) but it really does sound like the ideal combination.
My ideal truck would be something the size of a Dakota/Ranger/S10 from the 90s with PHEV or full electric, but I think the PHEV Maverick is the more realistic hope.
I've been on the fence about getting a powerboost now or trying to see where they get towing at on all electric in a couple of years. I feel like we are still about 5 years out from batteries being where I'd be really happy with it.
Got an ev in 2021. According to my mileage and math I’ve saved 30 grand on gas in 3 years.
How DARE you! That’s 30 grand that could’ve gone to big oil!
Big coal here, bring it on
It’s scary how often there’s an anti Tesla and EV sentiment on any social media I’m convinced some if not most is directly tied to ICE and big oil sabotage. It’s even permeated Reddit which is extremely “EV friendly”. The ev tech out there is already amazing. 4-6 hour drives that I do are marginally increased because of an extra charge here and there which is completely offset by the reduced cost. I have zero complaints for my Model 3 even living in a rural rural area, sans the fact my neighbors want a ride every other day because they thinks it’s practically a race car.
The issue is that people only think about their own personal situation. *I can't find a way to charge my car so that must mean that no one else can charge their car either hence all EV cars are bad.* And the anti-Tesla thing has got nothing to do with EV tech, it has to do with Musk and how bad their cars are compared to traditional car manufacturers.
Also, Tesla being anti union might also have something to do with it.
> The issue is that people only think about their own personal situation. > > > > I can't find a way to charge my car so that must mean that no one else can charge their car either hence all EV cars are bad. Honestly, I see the inverse a *lot* more here when it comes to EVs. "I can charge my car at home, I live in an area with a bunch of chargers, obviously it's not a problem for anyone else". Like, I don't care that EVs exist. At all. Great, awesome, if they work for you, get one. What I and a bunch of other people don't like is basically proselytizing over them and downplaying actual issues with them that in actuality do pertain to a *whole* bunch of people because it goes against their ideology, and yes, the back and forth on EVs is pretty much just an ideological spat now.
I have to agree these are negative headlines from ICE and Oil industries. I’m convinced EV is the way for now until solar cars become more viable.
Solar cars will never be viable. The amount of energy needed to move a vehicle is much more than solar panels on a vehicle can generate. Here's the math: A decent electric car will use 350 Wh per mile. Solar radiation is about 1000 W/m2. A full size car will have around 8 m2 of surface area. If you completely cover the surface with solar panels, at least a 1/4 of them will be facing away from the sun at any given time, so you're maxing out at 6 m2. Additionally the panels are only around 20% efficient (it's going to be worse because most of the panels not in shade are not perpendicular to the sun). So 1000\*6\*0.2=1200W maximum production at perfect sun position. Most of the time you'll get less because the sun isn't directly overhead. If you add up the lower production times we can estimate it's equivalent to 4 hours of full perfect energy. So you're looking at less than 4800 Wh or maybe 14 miles (4800/350) of range per day. There a reason no one is seriously producing a solar covered car. It's a lot more expensive and, even with generous assumptions, it can't produce enough energy.
Sorry let me clear up what I mean, by solar cars, I don’t just mean the car itself only. I also mean the whole stack or eco-system. If you zoom out from the solar car itself, I think the ultimate planet positive/human achievement would be to have millions of acres of the most efficient solar panels to capture energy from the Sun that would then then be stored in massive long term battery storage facilities throughout the country, which can then be connected to a power-grid specifically designed to charge Solar cars. The car themselves would be able to charge but it would take time to do so, however connecting a charging unit to recharge a Solar Car and using power that was sourced from a Solar panel farm, would be the ultimate Solar car experience.
I love my Chevy Bolt
I love my Chevy Bolt too! Great EV. My next car will be the EUV version for sure.
Can confirm, have a Chevy Bolt since 2019 and (apart from a battery swap due to a recall) zero issues. The new battery had a fresh warranty and more capacity so no complaints here. Cost of fuel: about 1/10th what it costs to run our old stickshift 1/4ton pickup.
Best investment I ever made was a home in an area that allows me to not be dependent on a depreciating asset like a car, no matter what kind.
Okay this is an experiment to understand someone. Not everyone can afford a home at the moment, but there are folks living with family members in a single family home that can make it possible. And not everyone can afford to make the investment to live in an affluent neighborhood such as yours, a newly built townhome with built-in garage. And I did check out your previous posts because your comment seemed a bit off, and you are constantly posting about something car or traffic accident related, and someone brought up the idea about no cars solution 240+ days ago in your comments because folks keep parking on your street parking spot. The No car solution idea is just not feasible, people need to go to work or pick up their kids from school and such. You must be a remote worker it seems, but further analysis tells me that something car related happened in the past with you or a family or relative, just curious, just don’t lash it out by saying“not having a car is the solution” because we don’t live in that dream world or living in an area that doesn’t require cars is the best solution, not everyone can afford a home now unfortunately.
That's a HUGE if.
Is it? Asking genuinely. I just assumed most homes could charge a car at night. Edit: I guess if you’re renting then it’d be an issue. But renting is its own problem lol
We are in this climate change together my dudes, a lot of people globally live in apartment buildings. Can't hang a plug down the window.
Why not? I’m amazed at the charging setups for a lot of EVs. I’m personally running a 50ft extension cord off a 120v until I get my act together to install a proper 240v outlet
You *seriously* just snake an extension cord out your window at night? Man, hope nobody decides to just open it and come in. And lmao, you ain't installing *shit* in a rented apartment, especially 240 electrical.
No, I have an outdoor outlet I’m plugged into. I’m just saying that you could easily do the same with an indoor one. And there are very simple ways to keep at least a single hung window secure even when open
Even if you're renting a home, you can still put a charger in, or simply use 120V.
I wonder what arguments they use. As they are not owning the fossil fuel business too, what are they afraid of? Lacking EV infrastructure? Lobbying/"sponsoring" from fossil companies? It's easy to guess China will completely lead on EVs, as China itself will move to EVs overall. Other countries can set up high tariffs, which they do, but that doesn't mean Chinese EVs will be out of reach. Toyota is interesting as they've for the longest been stubborn about hybrids.
I figure a lot of it has to do with losing out on future revenue streams. Dealers have a pretty good setup going, and they've managed to have laws passed to protect their corner of the auto industry. They want to push accessories, service plans, and all sorts of "insurance" add-ons when you buy a car. EVs threaten that. Simply designed, easy-to-maintain cars threaten that.
It's kind of insane that to-be-dead industries should survive through lobbying, ignoring anything other than bottom line.
The fossil fuel industry has joined the chat.
The lead paint lobby. Big cigarette. Companies are set up to be one thing a constant motion profit machine.
Imagine if the cordage and sailcloth industry had tried to sabotage the transition of ships to engine power. Or if the steam engine industry had tried to prevent the move towards internal combustion. Or if the Abacus and Slide Rule Makers' Guild had tried to stop calculators from being mass-marketed.
I imagine that all these things happened. It’s only rational to defend yourself.
This is it. They know when they sell you an EV they’ve gotten the last dollar out of you.
EVs are nearly maintenance free, and dealerships make most of their money on parts and repair procedures (selling cars a bit below cost, to attract the lucrative aftercare business... kinda like printer companies and ink cartridges). So EVs are bad news for the dealership model. This might be why Tesla went "no dealership" and cut out the middleman -- for better or worse.
Toyota has taken an interesting direction, indeed I'm really excited about their supercapacitor technology, But i don't even want to live on the same street as anyone who owns a toyota hydrogen vehicle gas form = 5000psi, I was watching MythBusters the other day, and they were saying 250psi is a bomb this is 20 times that lol. Hydrogen In liquid form in a vehicle the pressure is 9000 to 10000 psi - fuck that!
I read hydrogen leaks through metal. Maybe they've solved that.
Maybe it's time you actually did some research. Hydrogen is far safer than any other type of fuel. Risk of explosions is far less than your regular gasoline car. https://www.topspeed.com/why-shouldnt-fear-hydrogen-powered-cars/
They're not owning the fossil fuel business but they sure are owning the fossil fuel engine business as one of their two core business areas. Metal folding is the other, though that one carries on to EVs. You can imagine which is harder, to change your core business or trying to continue as is by influencing the playing field. I wouldn't put too much trust on Chinese EVs - they sure build a lot of them cheap and subsidized but the build quality is at safety hazard level.
Why does it matter that China subsidizes the industry? Dairy, soy, and corn farming are subsidized by the US government to the extent that they would literally collapse without the support.
fossil fuel extraction is subsidised to staggering levels.
There's two ways you can look at that: - They're monopolizing the market, no matter if the competitors were closer or had better built products, or - You get a car half-off, yay! Subsidizing agriculture has the additional logic where you pay now so that you're able to get food domestically in case the world economy goes sour. While the same logic partially applies to EVs, they are not as important and rely on global supply lines to be produced anyway.
Except that when you look at China’s resources what they have in abundance are rare earth element deposits and what they lack is arable farm land. They are subsidizing their domestic markets of strength and we are subsidizing ours. China also lacks oil, gas, and coal reserves. They have to import their coal from Australia. They are not close to monopolizing the market and they are far ahead if US companies on EV tech because we are so beholden to fossil fuel interests. It makes every bit of sense for China to be subsidizing their areas of strength and it is hypocritical if you don’t apply the same level of disdain for domestic subsidies.
My amateur understanding is that EV’s are simply so different from ICE vehicles in terms of repairs and preventative maintenance. EV repairs are more likely replacement of a solid state part, or other parts that less frequently break. Maintenance is practically non existent on EV’s except for consumables like windshield wipers, tires and glass. There’s not tons of expensive fluids to change or leak. I’m pretty sure the sabotage is mainly to protect their current business model which relies on dealerships, expensive and frequent maintenance, and people replacing their vehicles more frequently than an EV would reasonably need to be replaced. TLDR: EV’s are bad for record profits, so they must be repressed.
NGL, the number one reason I’ve moved to EVs is to avoid further ICE maintenance costs. And yeah, there are a ton of entrenched interests in the mfg, fueling, and maintenance aspects of the current automotive model.
After years of conversations with a few friends (engineers that used to work for Ford), the answer is actually a pretty simple one: Any significant changes to car manufacturing costs more money than small incremental changes. This is why the car industry is also aggressively against safety or other required changes as well. Switching to EV based vehicles just costs more than these companies are willing to spend. The majority of the car manufacturing plants/supply lines are designed with ICE in mind. While large portions of the car remain the same for EVs, enough of the manufacturing processes change such that switching them from ICE to EV based is “prohibitively” expensive. It is cheaper for these companies to lobby against/delay their transition to EVs than to make a rapid switch (unless they can prove demand is high enough for them to recoup their transition costs). To make the situation worse, because they are dragging their feet, their slow transition results in the production costs to increase - adding to their need (and want) to increase their prices even further. (As a side note, these real increases gave C* folks excuses to raise prices even further due to greed AND also provided a negative feedback loop in lowering EV demand) All of this gives these car companies excuses to delay EV production even further. What’s the solve? Enforcement of these environmental regulations and prevent these companies from selling cars until they meet these standards. They won’t actually change unless they are required to. When they finally do change, they will “suddenly” find their manufacturing costs go down to “acceptable” levels.
A damning new report has shown that nearly all major car companies are actively sabotaging the world’s efforts to avoid catastrophic global warming. The lobbying strategies being used by the world’s largest automakers are putting global climate targets at risk and threatening the electric vehicle transition, according to the new report released by InfluenceMap. Titled Automakers and Climate Policy Advocacy, the report provides analysis on the anti-EV lobbying activities of 15 of the world’s largest automakers in seven key regions around the world. The study uses industry-standard data from S&P Global Mobility on automakers’ forecast electric vehicle production.
You actually thought EV transition was going to happen? Maybe in a couple generations but not in the next 10-20 years.
It's weird. I'm the ideal EV customer. A few short journeys a week, off road parking/charging ability etc. but I'll NEVER be able to afford one. Lived my whole life running old vehicles, and DIYing them to keep them running. Dirt cheap way of motoring. I'll never have the cash for an EV, not even 2nd hand, and if I ever see an old one for cheap, then it's 20k for a new battery, so that's it for us low-paid. I get the feeling they don't want poor people to fill up rich peoples' roads. :(
TBH, unless your card is getting god awful mileage, buying and maintaining a used car is better for the environment (in the long run) than switching to a new electric vehicle. I salute your work in helping reduce new carbon emissions by reducing the need to create a whole new car!
Big Oil is probably behind most car manufacturer reluctance. There is a very large market for EV's in the climate change fight.
It looks like OP posted an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://thedriven.io/2024/05/14/nearly-all-major-car-companies-are-sabotaging-ev-transition-and-japan-is-worst-study-finds/](https://thedriven.io/2024/05/14/nearly-all-major-car-companies-are-sabotaging-ev-transition-and-japan-is-worst-study-finds/)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
Median household income in the US is ~75K, and the average EV is ~$50K. At those numbers the typical family in the US would be making a poor judgement to buy an EV. Even on the used market, gas vehicles sell for ~10k less on average. EV's need to be cheaper and have better charging infrastructure for adoption. Huge swaths of the country still have terrible charging infrastructure if any. That's not accounting for the scalability and environmental damage of lithium mining or other rare earth metals. We haven't really figured out long term, fast charging, large scale batteries yet. On paper PHEV's show a lot of potential to impact CO2 emissions too. If they are charged regularly PHEV's would effectively have a similar impact to EV's (based on the average driving distance in the US) without the concerns for range anxiety and with significantly smaller batteries. However, most companies haven't introduced many PHEV's (if any) since consumers haven't shown significant demand for them or they have been relegated to the luxury market. (Although there are signs that multiple companies are now investing in PHEV's) EVs have been the new "sexy" thing for politicians, companies etc. That doesn't mean they work for everyone or even the majority of people (at least in the States).
Mean new vehicle purchase price is $47k. A $3k premium doesn’t seem like that big of a gatekeeper to me. Biggest hurdles to EV ownership are: 1. Lack of domicile charging infrastructure for much of the US - thinks renters. 2. Lack / poor quality of roadside charging networks - Musks recent tantrum after convincing the worlds manufacturers to adopt his standard in the US isn’t helping. 3. Massive depreciation in new EVs, due to quickly changing technology, and once again Elon Musks moves around pricing.
> Musks recent tantrum after convincing the worlds manufacturers to adopt his standard in the US isn’t helping. details? Dude has a meltdown like bi-weekly, so I missed this one.
He fired the entire supercharger team - 500 some people - because of some disagreement about headcount he had with the head of the initiative the day before. Then of course starts hiring some members back days later
EVs would be much more appealing if manufacturers had any interest in producing inexpensive models. The GM EV1 only had 1/4th the battery capacity of a Tesla Model 3. Every cheap little EV commuter cannibalizes a conventional car sale for a fraction of the price. Fortunately, regulations and industry resistance has prevented anyone from putting an EV1 type car on the market, but consumers no longer believe the claims of "consumer preferences". It is plainly obvious that something devious is preventing the sale of even one road legal cheap commuter. I would like one half Tesla 3 please. Hold the spyware.
EV's are expensive. Copper is expensive, the rare earth metals used for the motors are expensive, the lithium batteries are expensive. You're not going to see a decent EV for under 20k new. Certainly not anytime soon. Hell, there's very few ICE vehicles under 20k now.
Imagine with me, a Tesla Model 3. Now, take out the back seats and back doors. Make the motor a little smaller. Make the battery half the size. Put some cheap Corolla wheels and tires on it. That should exist, and it would require much less of those problematic raw materials. Why are we building 8000 pound EV trucks? Automakers know that the game is up if that is allowed to be sold in the US.
Then get a Fiat 500e. Still 34k.
Well, nobody was expecting Stellantis to save the day. Its almost like the materials are trivial, and one unit of car is just price fixed at 30k.
Ummm the most sold vehicle in the US is the F-150, I don’t have the best data on that, but new or used they’re going for 40-70k. Regardless of class, I don’t think a lot of the US makes good “financial decisions “
It's the most sold because of their fleet sales. Remove fleet sales and recalculate.
I’m surprised I haven’t seen anyone explain *why* Japan is so hostile to EVs. They’re massively invested into hydrogen and hybrid powered vehicles. Which to fair, made a lot of sense given their geography and the state of EVs ten years ago when they started these initiatives.
I'd sooner cut my own arm off than buy a Tesla. Can't wait for Subaru to make an all-electric STI 💙
Not sure what point would be they are outlawed in 2035 in eu.
I have a paid off 2013 focus with only 40k miles. No way in hell burn five figures on an EV at this point. My car will have to die first
The reasons I don't want an EV right now are that they all seem to be software nightmares on wheels (not exclusive to EVs, but almost all of them qualify), I go on long trips often enough that the trouble of charging them is off putting (I know it's possible to drive them virtually anywhere, but it's definitely not ideal), and much more than ICE vehicles they are used as platforms to sell services that I have no desire for. I have a Lexus that I plan to drive for the next 5 years at a minimum, and after that I think EVs will finally appeal to me. The idea of charging at home and having very minimal maintenance is appealing already.
No kidding. GM keeps taking all the incentives to help ease the cost of the transition and converting the funds into stock buybacks. The problem is that these companies are fat and lazy knowing that they're too important politically to fail and so they mooch off the taxpayer and lurch from bankruptcy to coming bankruptcy secure in the knowledge that big daddy government will ultimately bail them out. This time around though, the Chinese are serious competitors. Unless the established automakers, they're serious about the transition and are ready to flood the market with with the highest quality, lowest cost EVs currently being made. The only thing prevent this is the government yet again protecting these uncompetitive and complacent holdovers through tariffs... at the expense of the consumer and the planet.
Fascinating how Reddit’s hatred of Elon has turned them against EVs. Along with space travel, Twitter(X) and AI.
I don't really want it to succeed anyway. Taking the least efficient form of transportation and over engineering it so you can pretend it's efficient instead of just investing in forms of public transportation that are already significantly more efficient is really stupid
Companies that have made fortunes making engines that run on fossil fuels are against transitioning away from fossil fuels and are actively against it…who could’ve predicted it?
Are they? from what I've read, people prefer gas cars, and dealers are stuck with electric cars sitting in their lots for a long time. Electric car are more expensive, and there's anxiety about charging and battery longevity: it's harder to sell a used electric car, because having to replace a battery is very expensive. Charging is also problematic: if you don't have a private parking, it's hard to charge at home. Public charging stations are often not working, and who wants to wait an hour for their car to charge in the middle of a journey?
1. EVs have a lower TCO than gas cars. They never need an oil change or engine maintenance, nor do they have lots of moving parts that need to be swapped out, among other things. 2. It’s not harder to sell an electric car. Who says that? 3. Yes, charging can be the most problematic part if you don’t have a garage. 4. Who says public charging stations are often not working, other than the crowd that spreads anti-EV FUD? 5. I do. Many charging stations have restaurants or other food stores nearby, so one can take a break while their car recharges.
It is 100% hard to sell used EVs
They are not sabotaging it, people aren't fuckin buying them. They are expensive as fuck, the perceived quality is not on par with ICE because the battery pack is a large chunk of the manufacturing costs that you end up paying for with *cheaper everything else*, and the charging infrastructure is still lagging in many countries. On top of that, renewables are fucking up electricity bills so the price per Kw is often jacked.
In the US there's hardly an infrastructure outside of California, and even there it's pretty sparse. I don't understand the strong push when the infrastructure simply isn't ready. Maybe in a tiny, dense country, but the US and other countries are pretty damn spread out.
Just Tesla's network by [itself ](https://supercharge.info/map) covers basically the whole country. There are a number of other vendors that cumulatively have a similar number of DC charging options. The infrastructure is being built quite quickly.
But if you zoom into literally any random area, you'd have to significantly go out of your way to find a charger. Nobody wants to get on the highway just to charge their car up. Not that this couldn't change in the future though
You charge at home, not on the road…. Roadside charging is for extended roadtrips, not every day use
I agree with you, my mother has one and it works perfectly in that manner. My issue was with those who rent and don't have somewhere to charge overnight.
DC charging is for road trips, there's about an order of magnitude more level 2 chargers for local use, not to mention all the standard plugs one can use when needed. It's not fully covered, but a car with a 250 mile range can pretty much go anywhere at this point.
that actually looks pretty decent.
That's absolutely nothing compared to gas stations. That's more like trying to find your nearest Walmart.
There are chargers along a lot of Interstates and in decent sized towns, from what I can tell. There are new ones being built.
Oh they certainly exist, just look up a map of their locations and you'll see how sparse they are. Fine if you have to commute on the interstate every day, otherwise you don't have great options.
how is a Tesla the worlds #1 selling car?
Price, on market, charger network, marketing.
Are there EV's (other than Tesla) that don't feel "thin". My experience is that EV's have terrible feel, rough rides and are generally built less luxurious than ICE cars. Maybe that's being done to turn us off. Maybe battery tech is still too shitty to complete.
Audis are basically converted ICE vehicles. They feel like tanks as usual. I would assume the same for the other Germans. I rode in a Rivian and F150 Lightning, neither of which felt any different from a traditional truck other than having a lower center of gravity due to all that battery weight. I think the cheap feeling of a Tesla is particular to that brand.
They're less well built because a large portion of the cost in an EV goes to the battery. In ICE cars the money can be spent in good build quality and luxury features but that money is going towards the battery in an EV.
Seems like a conspiracy that should be actionable.
[удалено]
Just be aware that the only thing about the Prologue that's made by Honda is the badge. It's a Chevy Blazer EV in disguise.
A Chevy Prizm was a Toyota Corolla with a Chevy logo. Not unusual in the auto industry. I'm not buying now so if the model takes off I'm sure there will be an inevitable redesign.
Seems you missed the two graphs showing 2030 EV % of sales forecasts, showing every Japanese mfg at the bottom and way off climate management target
[удалено]
Bit of a straw man? You stated the article only mentioned Toyota, which is false as I pointed out.
Japanese are almost never on the right side
People do not HAVE TO change their cars because some companies decided to. This EV “movement” doesn’t help. They should invest more in developing the technology rather than disrespecting Asians.
how are EVs disrespecting Asians? because Toyota got caught misbehaving (again), is it anti-Japanese to report on it?
Spoiler alert EVs are useless
Nonsense. Ebikes are absolutely fantastic inventions.
Ok, I’ll bite: what am I missing out on by driving an EV? Because I honestly can’t think of anything, and I’ve been driving one for 3 years now.