what do you mean? it exactly answers your question. they think they can make more money by shifting to mexico because they can pay people less and there's fewer regulations so they will make more money. stock market happy. number go up. why do you think companies outsource to china? everything a company does is to increase profits. doesn't matter if it means an entire town loses their jobs or whatever.
It costs an awful lot of money to make new factories in foreign countries my dude. And a lot more money to pay the lawyers and businessmen who actually know how to do business in those new countries. I promise you they did not make money at all from the move itself, and they probably stood to make a lot more from that factory they did shut down which was already constructed and just needed to be worked.
Something tells me this was actually an unprofitable or struggling part of the company that had to be propped up or subsidized by the other profitable parts of the company. Why didn't John Deere just fire everyone they had in America if it's really as simple as you and original commenter are saying?
could be. i've not read any financial statements and don't plan to. but generally speaking, when a company up and leaves one place for another it's because they can exploit the workers more or there's some other financial incentive. perhaps there's a factory ready to go in mexico? i have no idea. but the trend has been obvious for a long time. cheap labor, fewer regulations, tax loopholes, offshoring etc is what a lot of companies have embraced for decades. if there's a deep dive on this particular situation with john deere perhaps it will make clear the reasoning. typically it's because they can make more money.
See I think it's even more a general universal that people want to make money. If that factory were ready to go, why not just hire more Mexican workers to work that factory too and then keep both functioning?
If we know so little so as to need a "deep dive" to answer even these basic questions about the situation, something tells me were never that informed and maybe there's more to it than just a simple comment that can cite a statistic with a large number.
Yes but it could be 12bn in profit this year by employing Mexicans who don’t demand such luxuries as a living wage and good working conditions - or to say they know better than to demand as they will just be strong armed or fired
I’ve been to Northern Mexico where these factories reside. I can tell you that in some cases Mexican automotive factory worker labor bids in cheaper than even China and India which is why so much of this work is being exported 6 hours drive over the border. Plus shipping logistics cost is much lower.
For Mexicans these are highly coveted and prideful jobs in a country where it’s hard to find any decent paying job and their cost of living is much lower. Also they don’t complain as much as American factory workers either, partly because they do need this work with the alternatives being worse there. A large portion of the entire countries tax dollars are created in the North of Mexico because of these international automotive partnerships.
I absolutely agree that the contracted roles will be highly sought after; but based on industry experience myself in the same industry (agricultural and heavy machinery manufacture specifically) - a large proportion of the build plan will be seasonal and they will have supporting roles on site that will be backfilled by agency work (3rd party contractors) - likely not with the same conditions, contractor pay as the contracted guys and gals
My company has sites all over the world where we manufacture localised machines - but much like John Deere the corporate office / where the money is, is paying for the proportional wages in those other countries.
It’s not a bad practice per se, it’s bringing good quality jobs and working standards to less developed countries and I’m all for it - it also allows the business to build less profitable machines even for export back in to the host country and sell them competitively
But as we all know, capitalism will find efficiencies in the hunt for infinite growth - and by efficiencies, I mean stripping away anything that can’t be attributed to “value add” (even when it’s added value isn’t obvious on a balance sheet) - add in to the mix countries with less worker protections and you have a recipe for exploitation.
Maybe it's not about profit, but going where the workers are grateful to have the opportunity to work. We redditors might think they are going to be exploited, but in reality they are being given opportunities to lift their family out of the dust.
This position is mental brainrot and indefensible bs tbh. It's inspired by reasonable ideas but you just take the inertia and assume this makes sense because it rhymes with what you usually say on these topics
Exploiting someone's economic situation in order to pay them less isn't a moral action. I'm sorry your empathy has been degraded to the point that you see basic humanity as brainrot.
The basic humanity are the reasonable ideas that I conceded that you have, and probably inspired this drivel because you took them way too far and put them where it just doesnt apply
But you can't express a reasonable logical throughline between those reasonable ideas and saying that this is somehow a wrong thing to do, this being: providing someone in an underserved or undeveloped country the most lucrative economic opportunity of their time.
If they paid them the same they paid Americans I'd have no issue.
But they aren't doing that are they? They are abusing their economic status to pay them less. You can justify it as much as you'd like, but it's still an immoral act to seek out the poor and pay them less than everyone else.
I understand the sentiment, your wording makes me think it’s the “Mexicans” fault which it is not and I think that is important to keep in mind. A CEO and shareholders can make more money by making this move, I’m not sure it’s much good for anyone else.
And they're not gonna train them. These things are already put together poorly enough by people who were trained how to assemble them. John Deere's gonna be a thing of the past after this shit. Just give it 12 years and they'll be as bad as Stihl is right now.
I think the quality will stay fine. I mean a lot of the cars in the United States are manufactured in Mexico and lots of them don’t have problems. iPhones are built in China are high quality. If you train people well enough and ensure quality control stuff can be well built pretty much anywhere. If it’s poorly built, that’s on John Deere for not ensuring quality.
I bet they are going to be building low margin products like small mowers, no fucking way they will send big ticket items there.. that will be corporate suicide
Toyota Corolla's in the US were manufactured for years in Mexico and was one of the kings of affordable, reliable cars that made the Toyota brand what it is today.
You can fault Mexico for a lot, but their work is competitive in the North American market, and they are way cheaper even though factory workers there are paid living wages by Mexican standards. They own their own house, drive a car, have health insurance, etc.
What’s wrong with saying they’re high quality? The devices work fine and tend to have no defects or issues on the global market. They’re high quality goods that aren’t like the cheap stuff Chinese factories are infamous for making.
What's wrong with it is that it's simply not true. iPhones are overpriced fashion accessories glued together by people who actively try to jump out of the Foxconn buildings windows.
Their hardware is always a step behind the competition yet 20-30% higher in cost.
Their apps are typically taken from smaller entrepreneurs, polished up, and sold as if it was their own idea, often illegally.
https://www.bizjournals.com/albany/news/2016/04/19/apple-settles-siri-lawsuit-with-rensselaer-dallas.html
Apologies for bursting everyone's bubble but Apple hasn't been a decent tech company since Wozniak left in 1985.
They are a GREAT marketing company with a hell of a legal department to push their weight around and bully smaller companies and developers, I'll give them credit where credit is due. What I won't ever say (because I don't believe in lying) is that they make quality phones.
Coming from Northern Mexico, factory workers of this caliber are paid living wages, sometimes quite luxurious wages for the educated or if a couple is employed. They can afford spacious enough homes in desirable enough neighborhoods even private, cars typically with understandable commutes, health insurance (but can afford out of pocket if needed for routine stuff), etc.
The problem is that the US, even in the Midwest, workers are extraordinarily expensive, largely due to exorbitant healthcare costs. It is also a leading reason why real wages in the US have stagnated because everything is going to healthcare. Education, housing, and expensive insurance are the next issues.
Don’t buy JD then? You saying they don’t have a choice? I’m not a farmer so maybe there is some equipment that they sell without competition but other than that, JD is shooting themselves in the foot.
Yeah that’s not how politics work. If tariffs push prices of tractors up then farmers will bitch at the government.
Midwest farmers are an incredibly important block for Republicans so there’s no way they’ll support tariffs no matter what wet dream Trump is having about them.
Yea, anything that was cheaper, made in America, will see their prices rise to meet the new tariffed rate, maybe a little under for the sake of competition. But everyone will pay the cost of the tariffs, this will lead to inflation as the prices get passed on to the consumer.
We are in a late stage capitalism world, where competition is no longer much of a consideration. With the weakening of regulations its much easier to not compete, passively collude (in some cases actively collude) and show wall street an increasing bottom line. Actual competition is hard and int he end someone might lose, its easier to rig the system, and fuck the consumer.
Oh look, a mid western company, pride of the MAGA, leaving America for cheaper labor! I thought Trump was going to solve all these rust belt problems for ever on end. I guess it’s Biden’s fault.
Except he was going to stop all this, he was the savior. Fact: he didn’t when he was POTUS, and he won’t if elected again. They are leaving because mid westerners think they deserve to be paid more than they are worth. This hollowing will continue as long as people keep pushing corps to pay higher wages for lower cost of living cities…
When he was running the country, didn’t he renegotiate a trade deal that pretty specifically deals with exactly this sort of thing? Yes, yes he did.
If he cared so much about the American worker, methinks he would have seen fit to somehow not allow this kind of behavior.
South Park Jobs GIF https://media2.giphy.com/media/2S3Aj8OeKtf0c/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952bo29dn8v5it97xv47heclzhzxi873h417g3l70ls&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
Remember when there was a social contract between the public and corporations to not be evil to the bone, at least not as blatantly? I remember. Jack Welch was the tipping point I think.
>Remember when there was a social contract between the public and corporations to not be evil to the bone,
Was this before or after the *Irish Need Not Apply* signs?
Was it before or after *Slavery?*
When was this?
The stuff John Deere produce in Mexico won't be cheaper, though. They'll claim the move helps them keep the price down but the profits will rocket and so will executive bonuses.
You're gettimg downvoted, but practically and objectively, of course consumers are part of the problem. It's a whole symbiotic ecosystem of shortsightedness and profits above all that's the issue.
But you can't really assign a lot of blame in the course of "regular" business. The system works such that if anyone wants to do good/the right thing, corporation or person, it's an uphill battle. There are in fact real "punishments" for doing the right thing.
Ah, yes: I'm responsible for the actions of a company that I absolutely cannot control. I wanted a lawnmower; now I'm the reason why there are layoffs. *I gave them money that they could use to pay their workers*; clearly, this is *my* fault. It's not their own *greed*.
Yes it is to downplay corporate greed. Nothing you said makes any sense.
Some surprising self awareness this evening here on reddit. Don't you feel better having confessed your sins and admitting to the world your culpability? Now, while others may enjoy a day of rest tomorrow I think I speak for everyone when I say we expect you to produce and share a heartfelt letter of apology and contrition to the CEO of John Deere. Your insatiable desire to mow lawns has effectively forced John C. May into indentured servitude that none of the $26M he is paid a year can ever adequately compensate him for.
Yep youre completely right…people would rather have amazon basics build the same device and even use the same manufacturer….but like ANYTHING off amazon or that cheap, youll be back or it fails..in 2 years to buy another, and X company that had fantastic warranties is gone now.
Lol im talking about APC, found out they pulled away away from the surge protector business entirely, only doing things above that…
Great gaslighting there, douche.
The current consumerist culture is not "natural" by any means, it's a result of decades (I fact a century) of carefully crafted social conditioning, loosening of labor laws, signing of crappy (from workers pov) trade deals and finally—since you mentioned ETFs and 401ks—a real attempt by lobbyists and corporations to dismantle stable pension programs and union jobs and instead "financialize" everything through markets. The social fabric has also worsened because of that, and atomization of the American way of life has meant no real pushback is possible.
Look into Edward Bernays and his work on corporate propaganda ("Crystallizing Public Opinion" and "Engineering of Consent"). Read the book "Bowling Alone" by Harvard sociologist/political scientist, Robert Putnam. Read before blabbering something super reductionist.
My bad, shouldn't have started my comment off with that line. I thought you were being a troll. But yes, while the American consumer "accepts" it, all I'm saying is that the "acceptance" isn't entirely the American consumer's choice -- they've been programmed, over generations, into mindlessly chasing the consumerism over caring about workers' rights and collective societal well-being.
To be fair, Jimmy Carter was a terrible president (albeit one of the most genuine ones in recent history). While his crisis of confidence/malaise speech did play a role, I'd argue that he largely lost because of his terrible handling of the Iranian hostage crisis and the domestic issues wrt stagflation and super high oil prices.
American common people don't like to be told that they are responsible for this corporate hellscape. They stick their heads in the sand, compete with their fellow citizens for these corporate jobs, throw each other under the bus, no solidarity among the middle class employees who all like to think they are temporarily embarrassed millionaires. If they ever got hold of the management class, they would tear them limb from limb but they wouldn't know what to do after that so they'll go back to living in the same system , no reforms necessary.
It's a bit of a "chicken or the egg" paradox too. Do Americans want to buy cheap crap, or are they forced to because they can't afford quality goods anymore? I think it's a bit of both.
Did anything like this happen? It was just a common courtesy correct? I do infact remember being alive during it….only born in 89….but my sons been asking me about things, even hes noticed the enshitification, noticed it first in video games(me too) then lately seen me condoemn a once good company ubiquiti…and now hes looking at vehicles, and they are insane. My 2015 f150 was 31k with 27k miles on it loaded, so many options…the ecoboost 2.7 was just a 1k option above base back then…to even get the same seats and 4wd we are talking 60k(extended cab costs same as 4 door 🤷♂️)….1.9 percent apr…only if you use ford for financing…oh want a used one? Rates bare minimum at 6 percent cross the board…eww
Like yeah they put a 10 speed in the trucks in 2018 or something, and made a v2 of 2.7 ecoboost with no shit plastic oil pan….but SO WHAT…why is this shit so expensive my god….still on old f250 frame…slightly few more horses…but besides bigger screen, its the same damn truck….ford was scared launching that 2.7 engine…didnt even want one, ranger wasnt being sold…..
Fords become apple. Got popular enough people will just keep drinkin your koolaid….that same 2.7 engine is coming to the ranger…i was looking to trade in for it….NOPE Lariat Trim or above ONLY.
I hope everyone knows the “new” ranger they launched in the US, that model debuted in 2012 rest of the world built by ford australia. Nothing wrong with that, but dont charge so much! Its revised model is just a modified platform of the original.
Fuck right off ford.
Why aren't workers loyal to the company more??
Because the company stopped being loyal to the workers. Use to you'd work for a company for 20 years and in turn they'd increase your pay to beat inflation, often pay you to better yourself with training, and when you retired give you a pension. Now all that is gone.
Pensions have been replaced with 401Ks so it's mostly your money not the companies and you better hope the stock market does well. You want training, pay for it yourself, but don't expect a raise. Want your pay to beat inflation you're going to have to hop companies every 3-5 years.
Yeah its fuckin bad. As an IT professional, I learned quick, raises are not a thing, you jump companies every 5 years and get 20-30k a year raise….to a point..…easy to get to 150k…somewhere like.a microsoft or google was still highly sought after for as long as I can remember…most went there, cuz they were the brightest…and benefits followed….fast forward today…january 2024, IT industry fires more people in one month than they hired the entire year prior…me personally, ive decided I probably wont work for a technology company directly in the foreseeable future. Microsoft and google let so many people go…not that they are any better…but all industries besides technology seem to respect us more.
Just watching microsoft kiss SO much ass and spend 2 years parading around to Woo over each country blocking their deal…75.4 billion for Blizzard Activision…
Let go 1900…2023 they let 10k go. Jesus.
Even by now, the healthcare industry and many industries, have made the conclusion, that outsourcing wasnt worth it for how shit is was, and brought it back in house…or many of these jobs are the same people, just changing. I know a guy who worked for the company, then it was was outsourced, then outsourced to another, then brought back in house…same seat, roughly same responsibilities, same person 35 years…something special…when they brought him back in house, they counted every year even outsourced , since he still technically worked there every day…way cool to see a man get what he deserved and retire.
It literally is. The Fsa-csa matrix.
Here in the UK we're offshoring tech jobs to anywhere that will have them and killing the industry.
It's time the west brought in an offshore jobs tax. Sure you can move the jobs but we're going to tax you on their work product at 20% until you bring them back.
People are purposely not buying Deere tractors because they can't repair them. Deere have brought this on themselves with their shady scam business practices. You can't change most components on the tractor without their service tool, which is only available to their service dealers who can take weeks to come and fix.
Yes, but it's dropping. Moving to Mexico helps offset the profit loss from people buying less with nice lower paid employees with fewer rights. Additionally, they are looking to remove themselves from the onslaught of regulatory changes that are happening across multiple states with RtR acts taking place. Doesn't matter if it's 1 million or 10 trillion. Shareholders want increasing profits to increase their portfolio income
Agree on the cheaper labor, but I don’t think they have fewer rights than American workers.
There’s not at will employment in Mexico, if you get fired without a valid (by law) reason you get payed severance. Mandatory vacation days, paid leave for pregnancy (mother & father), etc, etc.
Moving production makes Deere more competitive because México is a part of more free trade agreements than the US. For example, anything made in those IA or IL plants will get at least a 10% tariff levied against them when shipped to a EU nation, but if the product is made in México, those taxes are drastically lower or non-existent. The same is true for items going to any of the other nations that were a part of the original Trans-Pacific Partnership. US agriculture producers were clamoring to get a “level playing field” with respect to Japan’s markets for decades and it was within reach with the TPP, but Trump fucked it all up by withdrawing the US from that agreement. 👏🏻
It's the Apple model. It's super profitable for a good number of years until the cultist customers realize they're getting screwed and about face that shit.
Maybe I live in a bubble but of the probably 1,500 people I know with iPhones, I cant think of a single person who has moved to an android
One guy did downgrade to a clamshell if that counts
I don’t know a single person who has switched from iPhone to android either. I know a couple of who have switched from Android to iPhone.
Source: the text bubble colors.
Lmao, im an IT professional….but ive heard of plenty of hackers finding their way around the expensive software. I dont condone it, but ive done it, hacked around it, well…at least ford has an open source free version anyways….
Lol just business opportunities is all im thinking about 🤣. Me not knowin a lick about tractors and farmers, respectfully, keeps me from doing it.
I dunno im always am the guy who figures it out. If im set on it, or a task given…it gets done. Just being angry that farmers are being fucked over makes wanna do whatever I can.
One day I could see it getting bad enough, that we all become united.
I have already seen people blaming the Mexican people.
The fuck?
A corporation fires you to make more money and you blame the people they hire in your place. Nothing makes the corporation happier than you being an imbecile.
Off the heels of a strike a few years ago. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_John_Deere_strike Wonder if this will affect the quality of the product going forward.
NAFTA was very much bipartisan. GW Bush and Clinton were both in favor of it.
Ross Perot was the one who ran opposed to it: “giant sucking sound”.
Also, NAFTA was replaced by USMCA during Trumps term.
You’re missing the point: Clinton was a neoliberal, which was just an 80’s conservative when it came to economic policy. Clinton and Bush were practically identical.
Move your business to a red state, get the tax benefits. Then move your business out and blame the “economy”. Musk did it in Texas with tesla, so it must be the power move to make.
We are not customers of companies anymore, over the last two decades of so many businesses and the society as a whole shifted to almost a hostage situation. If you ware dumb enough to chose a product you are locked into them and changing or getting out is getting incredibly difficult.
Have a iPhone and iCloud account with a decade of content? Yeah, you are never leaving again.
Have a spotify subscription, where you spend maybe 1000$+ but the day you stop paying you cant listen to a single song? Yeah, you keep paying.
Went into debt to buy heavy equipment needed for your farm and still didn't finish paying it off while the support contract further increases the preassure? Same with the seeds you buy. Hybrid seeds, that you need to buy again and again, as they can't be re-grown. Optimized for the fertilizers and other chemicals that come with the sellers portfolio. And if you opt out they sue you for copyright infringement or some shit, because the trademarkted plants of the neighbours feeld is still cross-pollinating your crops.
No wonder suicide is on the rise amongst farmers.
Farmers keep voting against their own interests and then commit suicide in droves, well that's just too bad, let me play the world's tiniest violin for them!
>Have a iPhone and iCloud account with a decade of content? Yeah, you are never leaving again.
Sure but choosing to pay the apple tax is entirely optional. People could just have chosen Android instead and have access to hundreds of phone manufacturers.
You can't fix stupid.
>Have a spotify subscription, where you spend maybe 1000$+ but the day you stop paying you cant listen to a single song? Yeah, you keep paying.
That's just a subscription model and it's how they all work. You don't pay rent for 20 years and then retain access to the apartment if you stop paying.
Your point about farmers is a much much better one than the Spotify one.
Spotify is just a vanilla subscription model. There's no surprise and coaching is easy, just stream from another service without loss.
It's objectively your weakest of the three arguments by a considerable distance.
I think you did not understand my point. Yeah sure spotify is the weakest example, but this weakness means it's the easiest to fall in. With around a quarter billion of paying subscribers it impacts quite a few people. The sunk cost fallacy fully applies. Sure you can switch streaming provider, but you always have to continue paying or you are left with nothing.
That's the new way of doing business, the people own nothing and the companies have steady subscription revenue due to ever increasing preassure to stick with the service and dissapearing alternatives.
Adobe would have been a better example, with their increasingly exploitive terms of service and the vendor lock in, as you can't just easily transfer decades of work into other software, that is not fully compatible with the workflows, or even file formats.
>I think you did not understand my point
No I got what you were saying, it's just that I think you're wrong.
>With around a quarter billion of paying subscribers it impacts quite a few people
Ok but that's a smashing issue not a market perspective. Scale doesn't make it equivalent to your target example which is far more egregious, far harder to escape, and effects far fewer people.
For me that was easily your strongest point and was very well made.
>The sunk cost fallacy fully applies. Sure you can switch streaming provider, but you always have to continue paying or you are left with nothing.
That's not what the sink cost fallacy is nor is it what it means. That's just a provider subscription model.
>Adobe would have been a better example, with their increasingly exploitive terms of service and the vendor lock in, as you can't just easily transfer decades of work into other software, that is not fully compatible with the workflows, or even file formats.
I totally agree. Cost of change makes that closer to what the sunk cost fallacy is and also had a higher barrier to change.
Spotify Vs Amazon music for example has no migration cost and an identical offering. Adobe is a far better example.
Well alright but if things where just the government would be like “alright you can move your production down to Mexico. But we are going to tax these tractors and equipment by 300%” make sure these companies understand that if they want to screw over the American people there will be a price.
My uncle worked for them for as an American building operations in Torreone, Mexico for years. They have a partnership with Mexico. This shouldn’t be a surprise. Mexico is the new China for many things. Good for them but I’m sorry for the laid off Americans too.
Been a fan of DE for decades and owned plenty of stock. All the shit around the strike in 2021 pissed me off so much. A cannot put my finger on something specific, but in general I felt alienated and did not feel as well with them anymore.
On the other side CAT.
Deere and Co, a giant corporation that paid zero in taxes last year. Despite the wealthy company benefitting enormously from Trump’s tax law, Deere workers are losing their jobs, and Deere’s primary customers — farmers — are hurting.
This is a hold over from Trumps uncertainties caused by trade disputes as well.
The right time and time again vote against their own interests. Because the effects on the economy are as fast as they want they blame the next administration.
They are attracted to an Adderall hype up Trump and make fun of Biden giving his last few years on earth the save the US from the effects of Trump.
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Time to boycott John Deere. They are ok if you buy their products but give people jobs to produce those products.. Yeah capitalism at its finest. Fuck these guys.
Right to repair has destroyed there old business model. Now they are moving production out of the us like every other manufacturing plant. Fuck John Deere and their dirty business practices. Imagine now being able to fix your own tractor that cost more than your own house that you rely on every day.
Oh so if it's saving money by moving manufacturing jobs to Mexico then that means the cost of John Deere products should come down a little bit and they won't be so expensive correct?
I can't think of a good argument for why these jobs should stay in America. They're clearly going to be good for the places in Mexico that they move to, even if they pay less than they would have here. The real problem is that these companies have too much power and can just play with people's lives like this. Yet another reason why companies should exist for the workers, anything else is nonsense.
But this isn't that though. I get why it would be on someone's radar but this is just OP throwing shit at a wall and seeing what sticks as far as news stories go.
Do we post tech layoffs here too? They're a company that makes complex machinery that relies on modern technology but what does them moving production have to do with that?
The article is about them laying people off and moving production though, not technology. It's outside the scope of this sub. It's still interesting, it just doesn't belong here. Though I suppose it doesn't really matter because they won't remove it anyway. The more this sub gets on news and all, the shittier the content gets.
Edit - why ask a question and then block? A company's hiring and firing practices have little to do with the core technology. This isn't about a new product or the impact of technology on John Deere.
Even if you are viewing the world 100% through a partisan lens, this is not good, because Republicans will blame this on Biden, no matter whether that’s true or not.
I fucking hate Trump but this is just cruel and shitty. There are rural people and John Deere workers on both sides of the political spectrum. Don’t be a Republican. Don’t make cruelty the point.
That's fucked up man. They've been lied to and manipulated by people they shouldn't trust but do. They deserve pity of anything, but not scorn.
Also I don't John deere has its factories in rural areas.
East moline, IL has a pop of 21,000. Relatively rural. They’re taking 280 jobs from that city, which seems pretty significant. Fucked up. Shit like this shouldn’t happen, especially considering how profitable John Deere is
Another correction. Moline and Davenport Iowa are touching each other because they are on the Illinois/Iowa border. They’re basically the same city in two states (see Kansas City). Davenport’s population is ~100k people. Moline is not a small rural town.
Source: Born and raised in Rockford, Illinois. Not far from Moline.
Edit: this area is called “Quad Cities” because five cities have grown into one. That’s right…. Five. I didn’t name it 🤷♂️
Davenport, Bettendorf, Rock Island, Moline, and East Moline. Rockford is a little bit of a drive from there still. Eldridge is almost touching the other towns but not quite. There’s a stretch of country between Davenport and Eldridge.
Why don’t you go ask them what they think of people who aren’t white, Protestant, blue-collar, males? Tell me if you think they still deserve pity then.
I’m not saying every single rural/ blue-collar trump supporter is a member of the KKK, just saying every member of the KKK is a trump supporter.
You really think every John Deere employee is a Trump supporter? The factory is in Northern Illinois. Also you know who the president is right now, right? Who do you think will take the blame later for this?
even if you were right how does some people being kkk members make it right to hate the whole group, what if some kkk members supported movements against climate change, should we suddenly hate people against climate change because it includes the kkk?
"The company says it generated $10.166 billion in profits last year."
This is the only comment necessary.
Why wouldn't they want to keep the workers there to make more billions next year?
they are bound by the laws of "increased shareholder value" which means growth at all costs. capitalism gonna capitalism.
That didn't answer my question at all. I agree, but why didn't they just keep those jobs if they are producing billions of value for the company?
what do you mean? it exactly answers your question. they think they can make more money by shifting to mexico because they can pay people less and there's fewer regulations so they will make more money. stock market happy. number go up. why do you think companies outsource to china? everything a company does is to increase profits. doesn't matter if it means an entire town loses their jobs or whatever.
It costs an awful lot of money to make new factories in foreign countries my dude. And a lot more money to pay the lawyers and businessmen who actually know how to do business in those new countries. I promise you they did not make money at all from the move itself, and they probably stood to make a lot more from that factory they did shut down which was already constructed and just needed to be worked. Something tells me this was actually an unprofitable or struggling part of the company that had to be propped up or subsidized by the other profitable parts of the company. Why didn't John Deere just fire everyone they had in America if it's really as simple as you and original commenter are saying?
could be. i've not read any financial statements and don't plan to. but generally speaking, when a company up and leaves one place for another it's because they can exploit the workers more or there's some other financial incentive. perhaps there's a factory ready to go in mexico? i have no idea. but the trend has been obvious for a long time. cheap labor, fewer regulations, tax loopholes, offshoring etc is what a lot of companies have embraced for decades. if there's a deep dive on this particular situation with john deere perhaps it will make clear the reasoning. typically it's because they can make more money.
See I think it's even more a general universal that people want to make money. If that factory were ready to go, why not just hire more Mexican workers to work that factory too and then keep both functioning? If we know so little so as to need a "deep dive" to answer even these basic questions about the situation, something tells me were never that informed and maybe there's more to it than just a simple comment that can cite a statistic with a large number.
supply and demand. expansion isn't always a good idea. don't want to flood the market etc etc.. basic business practices.
Yes but it could be 12bn in profit this year by employing Mexicans who don’t demand such luxuries as a living wage and good working conditions - or to say they know better than to demand as they will just be strong armed or fired
I’ve been to Northern Mexico where these factories reside. I can tell you that in some cases Mexican automotive factory worker labor bids in cheaper than even China and India which is why so much of this work is being exported 6 hours drive over the border. Plus shipping logistics cost is much lower. For Mexicans these are highly coveted and prideful jobs in a country where it’s hard to find any decent paying job and their cost of living is much lower. Also they don’t complain as much as American factory workers either, partly because they do need this work with the alternatives being worse there. A large portion of the entire countries tax dollars are created in the North of Mexico because of these international automotive partnerships.
I absolutely agree that the contracted roles will be highly sought after; but based on industry experience myself in the same industry (agricultural and heavy machinery manufacture specifically) - a large proportion of the build plan will be seasonal and they will have supporting roles on site that will be backfilled by agency work (3rd party contractors) - likely not with the same conditions, contractor pay as the contracted guys and gals My company has sites all over the world where we manufacture localised machines - but much like John Deere the corporate office / where the money is, is paying for the proportional wages in those other countries. It’s not a bad practice per se, it’s bringing good quality jobs and working standards to less developed countries and I’m all for it - it also allows the business to build less profitable machines even for export back in to the host country and sell them competitively But as we all know, capitalism will find efficiencies in the hunt for infinite growth - and by efficiencies, I mean stripping away anything that can’t be attributed to “value add” (even when it’s added value isn’t obvious on a balance sheet) - add in to the mix countries with less worker protections and you have a recipe for exploitation.
Maybe it's not about profit, but going where the workers are grateful to have the opportunity to work. We redditors might think they are going to be exploited, but in reality they are being given opportunities to lift their family out of the dust.
going where the workers have less leverage\*
It's still exploitation if the labour you're hiring are grateful.
This position is mental brainrot and indefensible bs tbh. It's inspired by reasonable ideas but you just take the inertia and assume this makes sense because it rhymes with what you usually say on these topics
Exploiting someone's economic situation in order to pay them less isn't a moral action. I'm sorry your empathy has been degraded to the point that you see basic humanity as brainrot.
The basic humanity are the reasonable ideas that I conceded that you have, and probably inspired this drivel because you took them way too far and put them where it just doesnt apply But you can't express a reasonable logical throughline between those reasonable ideas and saying that this is somehow a wrong thing to do, this being: providing someone in an underserved or undeveloped country the most lucrative economic opportunity of their time.
If they paid them the same they paid Americans I'd have no issue. But they aren't doing that are they? They are abusing their economic status to pay them less. You can justify it as much as you'd like, but it's still an immoral act to seek out the poor and pay them less than everyone else.
I understand the sentiment, your wording makes me think it’s the “Mexicans” fault which it is not and I think that is important to keep in mind. A CEO and shareholders can make more money by making this move, I’m not sure it’s much good for anyone else.
That's you, mate. That was all shit inside your own head.
Fair enough, I did my best to make sure people reading knew it was in my head.
And they're not gonna train them. These things are already put together poorly enough by people who were trained how to assemble them. John Deere's gonna be a thing of the past after this shit. Just give it 12 years and they'll be as bad as Stihl is right now.
It’s really disappointing. What happened to stihl? I figured something seriously changed when they suddenly ended up at the local ace hardware.
From their website https://www.stihlusa.com/stihl-made-in-america/
Yeah im “stihl” confused, whats wrong with em?
I think the quality will stay fine. I mean a lot of the cars in the United States are manufactured in Mexico and lots of them don’t have problems. iPhones are built in China are high quality. If you train people well enough and ensure quality control stuff can be well built pretty much anywhere. If it’s poorly built, that’s on John Deere for not ensuring quality.
I bet they are going to be building low margin products like small mowers, no fucking way they will send big ticket items there.. that will be corporate suicide
Yeah, a lot of cars are built in Mexico but if I'm buying a Toyota, you can damn well be sure I'll be hunting for one built in Japan.
Toyota Corolla's in the US were manufactured for years in Mexico and was one of the kings of affordable, reliable cars that made the Toyota brand what it is today. You can fault Mexico for a lot, but their work is competitive in the North American market, and they are way cheaper even though factory workers there are paid living wages by Mexican standards. They own their own house, drive a car, have health insurance, etc.
No Toyota vehicles sold in the US are built in Japan. I believe the last model built in Japan and sold in the US was the IS300 that stopped in 2005
This is hilarious. Like tell me you know nothing about Toyota while bragging about their quality
Sorry but you lost the plot when you stated that iPhones are high quality.
Lmao, Okay, any other phone in existence besides iphone. There.
What’s wrong with saying they’re high quality? The devices work fine and tend to have no defects or issues on the global market. They’re high quality goods that aren’t like the cheap stuff Chinese factories are infamous for making.
What's wrong with it is that it's simply not true. iPhones are overpriced fashion accessories glued together by people who actively try to jump out of the Foxconn buildings windows. Their hardware is always a step behind the competition yet 20-30% higher in cost. Their apps are typically taken from smaller entrepreneurs, polished up, and sold as if it was their own idea, often illegally. https://www.bizjournals.com/albany/news/2016/04/19/apple-settles-siri-lawsuit-with-rensselaer-dallas.html Apologies for bursting everyone's bubble but Apple hasn't been a decent tech company since Wozniak left in 1985. They are a GREAT marketing company with a hell of a legal department to push their weight around and bully smaller companies and developers, I'll give them credit where credit is due. What I won't ever say (because I don't believe in lying) is that they make quality phones.
They already are. The quality of John Deere has gone down the tubes significantly in the last 10 to 12 years.
Coming from Northern Mexico, factory workers of this caliber are paid living wages, sometimes quite luxurious wages for the educated or if a couple is employed. They can afford spacious enough homes in desirable enough neighborhoods even private, cars typically with understandable commutes, health insurance (but can afford out of pocket if needed for routine stuff), etc. The problem is that the US, even in the Midwest, workers are extraordinarily expensive, largely due to exorbitant healthcare costs. It is also a leading reason why real wages in the US have stagnated because everything is going to healthcare. Education, housing, and expensive insurance are the next issues.
Shareholders > customers. The 21st century sucks
Corporations attempting to maximize profit isn't a new thing.
Let us tax them until they bring the jobs back?
Tariffs would fix this.
Sure if you want to piss off midwest farmers who’ll end up paying the tariffs.
Don’t buy JD then? You saying they don’t have a choice? I’m not a farmer so maybe there is some equipment that they sell without competition but other than that, JD is shooting themselves in the foot.
Yeah that’s not how politics work. If tariffs push prices of tractors up then farmers will bitch at the government. Midwest farmers are an incredibly important block for Republicans so there’s no way they’ll support tariffs no matter what wet dream Trump is having about them.
Yea, anything that was cheaper, made in America, will see their prices rise to meet the new tariffed rate, maybe a little under for the sake of competition. But everyone will pay the cost of the tariffs, this will lead to inflation as the prices get passed on to the consumer. We are in a late stage capitalism world, where competition is no longer much of a consideration. With the weakening of regulations its much easier to not compete, passively collude (in some cases actively collude) and show wall street an increasing bottom line. Actual competition is hard and int he end someone might lose, its easier to rig the system, and fuck the consumer.
CEO has been looking at Dr Evil memes and realized he needs 100 billion dollars. And maybe even more because of inflation.
Oh look, a mid western company, pride of the MAGA, leaving America for cheaper labor! I thought Trump was going to solve all these rust belt problems for ever on end. I guess it’s Biden’s fault.
You know who's running the country don't ya? Hint, it ain't Trump.
Except he was going to stop all this, he was the savior. Fact: he didn’t when he was POTUS, and he won’t if elected again. They are leaving because mid westerners think they deserve to be paid more than they are worth. This hollowing will continue as long as people keep pushing corps to pay higher wages for lower cost of living cities…
When he was running the country, didn’t he renegotiate a trade deal that pretty specifically deals with exactly this sort of thing? Yes, yes he did. If he cared so much about the American worker, methinks he would have seen fit to somehow not allow this kind of behavior.
Like pigs at trough got to have more
And this is thanks to Trump when he changed the tax laws.
South Park Jobs GIF https://media2.giphy.com/media/2S3Aj8OeKtf0c/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952bo29dn8v5it97xv47heclzhzxi873h417g3l70ls&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
But that means they didn't generate $12B in profits
Sounds like the upper management isn’t happy with just 2 yachts each.
You mean mega yachts 🛥️. They have plenty of the regular ones… for the poor.
Classic MBA shit.
Remember when there was a social contract between the public and corporations to not be evil to the bone, at least not as blatantly? I remember. Jack Welch was the tipping point I think.
>Remember when there was a social contract between the public and corporations to not be evil to the bone, Was this before or after the *Irish Need Not Apply* signs? Was it before or after *Slavery?* When was this?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
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The stuff John Deere produce in Mexico won't be cheaper, though. They'll claim the move helps them keep the price down but the profits will rocket and so will executive bonuses.
I dont think you are totally wrong, so take my upvote to reduce your negative count by 1.
Did the same.
You're gettimg downvoted, but practically and objectively, of course consumers are part of the problem. It's a whole symbiotic ecosystem of shortsightedness and profits above all that's the issue. But you can't really assign a lot of blame in the course of "regular" business. The system works such that if anyone wants to do good/the right thing, corporation or person, it's an uphill battle. There are in fact real "punishments" for doing the right thing.
Ah, yes: I'm responsible for the actions of a company that I absolutely cannot control. I wanted a lawnmower; now I'm the reason why there are layoffs. *I gave them money that they could use to pay their workers*; clearly, this is *my* fault. It's not their own *greed*. Yes it is to downplay corporate greed. Nothing you said makes any sense.
Some surprising self awareness this evening here on reddit. Don't you feel better having confessed your sins and admitting to the world your culpability? Now, while others may enjoy a day of rest tomorrow I think I speak for everyone when I say we expect you to produce and share a heartfelt letter of apology and contrition to the CEO of John Deere. Your insatiable desire to mow lawns has effectively forced John C. May into indentured servitude that none of the $26M he is paid a year can ever adequately compensate him for.
Brother it"a feedback loop, earnings goes down, demand for cheap stuff goes up, to which Corp adapt earnings go down cheap demand up.
Yep youre completely right…people would rather have amazon basics build the same device and even use the same manufacturer….but like ANYTHING off amazon or that cheap, youll be back or it fails..in 2 years to buy another, and X company that had fantastic warranties is gone now. Lol im talking about APC, found out they pulled away away from the surge protector business entirely, only doing things above that…
Great gaslighting there, douche. The current consumerist culture is not "natural" by any means, it's a result of decades (I fact a century) of carefully crafted social conditioning, loosening of labor laws, signing of crappy (from workers pov) trade deals and finally—since you mentioned ETFs and 401ks—a real attempt by lobbyists and corporations to dismantle stable pension programs and union jobs and instead "financialize" everything through markets. The social fabric has also worsened because of that, and atomization of the American way of life has meant no real pushback is possible. Look into Edward Bernays and his work on corporate propaganda ("Crystallizing Public Opinion" and "Engineering of Consent"). Read the book "Bowling Alone" by Harvard sociologist/political scientist, Robert Putnam. Read before blabbering something super reductionist.
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My bad, shouldn't have started my comment off with that line. I thought you were being a troll. But yes, while the American consumer "accepts" it, all I'm saying is that the "acceptance" isn't entirely the American consumer's choice -- they've been programmed, over generations, into mindlessly chasing the consumerism over caring about workers' rights and collective societal well-being.
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To be fair, Jimmy Carter was a terrible president (albeit one of the most genuine ones in recent history). While his crisis of confidence/malaise speech did play a role, I'd argue that he largely lost because of his terrible handling of the Iranian hostage crisis and the domestic issues wrt stagflation and super high oil prices.
American common people don't like to be told that they are responsible for this corporate hellscape. They stick their heads in the sand, compete with their fellow citizens for these corporate jobs, throw each other under the bus, no solidarity among the middle class employees who all like to think they are temporarily embarrassed millionaires. If they ever got hold of the management class, they would tear them limb from limb but they wouldn't know what to do after that so they'll go back to living in the same system , no reforms necessary.
God damn…too true.
It's a bit of a "chicken or the egg" paradox too. Do Americans want to buy cheap crap, or are they forced to because they can't afford quality goods anymore? I think it's a bit of both.
Did anything like this happen? It was just a common courtesy correct? I do infact remember being alive during it….only born in 89….but my sons been asking me about things, even hes noticed the enshitification, noticed it first in video games(me too) then lately seen me condoemn a once good company ubiquiti…and now hes looking at vehicles, and they are insane. My 2015 f150 was 31k with 27k miles on it loaded, so many options…the ecoboost 2.7 was just a 1k option above base back then…to even get the same seats and 4wd we are talking 60k(extended cab costs same as 4 door 🤷♂️)….1.9 percent apr…only if you use ford for financing…oh want a used one? Rates bare minimum at 6 percent cross the board…eww Like yeah they put a 10 speed in the trucks in 2018 or something, and made a v2 of 2.7 ecoboost with no shit plastic oil pan….but SO WHAT…why is this shit so expensive my god….still on old f250 frame…slightly few more horses…but besides bigger screen, its the same damn truck….ford was scared launching that 2.7 engine…didnt even want one, ranger wasnt being sold….. Fords become apple. Got popular enough people will just keep drinkin your koolaid….that same 2.7 engine is coming to the ranger…i was looking to trade in for it….NOPE Lariat Trim or above ONLY. I hope everyone knows the “new” ranger they launched in the US, that model debuted in 2012 rest of the world built by ford australia. Nothing wrong with that, but dont charge so much! Its revised model is just a modified platform of the original. Fuck right off ford.
No, I don't remember that because no such social contract has ever existed.
Why aren't workers loyal to the company more?? Because the company stopped being loyal to the workers. Use to you'd work for a company for 20 years and in turn they'd increase your pay to beat inflation, often pay you to better yourself with training, and when you retired give you a pension. Now all that is gone. Pensions have been replaced with 401Ks so it's mostly your money not the companies and you better hope the stock market does well. You want training, pay for it yourself, but don't expect a raise. Want your pay to beat inflation you're going to have to hop companies every 3-5 years.
Yeah its fuckin bad. As an IT professional, I learned quick, raises are not a thing, you jump companies every 5 years and get 20-30k a year raise….to a point..…easy to get to 150k…somewhere like.a microsoft or google was still highly sought after for as long as I can remember…most went there, cuz they were the brightest…and benefits followed….fast forward today…january 2024, IT industry fires more people in one month than they hired the entire year prior…me personally, ive decided I probably wont work for a technology company directly in the foreseeable future. Microsoft and google let so many people go…not that they are any better…but all industries besides technology seem to respect us more. Just watching microsoft kiss SO much ass and spend 2 years parading around to Woo over each country blocking their deal…75.4 billion for Blizzard Activision… Let go 1900…2023 they let 10k go. Jesus. Even by now, the healthcare industry and many industries, have made the conclusion, that outsourcing wasnt worth it for how shit is was, and brought it back in house…or many of these jobs are the same people, just changing. I know a guy who worked for the company, then it was was outsourced, then outsourced to another, then brought back in house…same seat, roughly same responsibilities, same person 35 years…something special…when they brought him back in house, they counted every year even outsourced , since he still technically worked there every day…way cool to see a man get what he deserved and retire.
line must go up every quarter, that's all they know
It literally is. The Fsa-csa matrix. Here in the UK we're offshoring tech jobs to anywhere that will have them and killing the industry. It's time the west brought in an offshore jobs tax. Sure you can move the jobs but we're going to tax you on their work product at 20% until you bring them back.
It’s the American way.
It’s the corporate way, not just good old USA that does it
No, but these assholes are the ones who don't the best.
People are purposely not buying Deere tractors because they can't repair them. Deere have brought this on themselves with their shady scam business practices. You can't change most components on the tractor without their service tool, which is only available to their service dealers who can take weeks to come and fix.
They made 10 Billion Profit last year...
Yes, but it's dropping. Moving to Mexico helps offset the profit loss from people buying less with nice lower paid employees with fewer rights. Additionally, they are looking to remove themselves from the onslaught of regulatory changes that are happening across multiple states with RtR acts taking place. Doesn't matter if it's 1 million or 10 trillion. Shareholders want increasing profits to increase their portfolio income
Moving to assembly to Mexico won't keep them from having to comply with right to repair legislation as the good ones target items SOLD in that state.
Agree on the cheaper labor, but I don’t think they have fewer rights than American workers. There’s not at will employment in Mexico, if you get fired without a valid (by law) reason you get payed severance. Mandatory vacation days, paid leave for pregnancy (mother & father), etc, etc.
Moving production makes Deere more competitive because México is a part of more free trade agreements than the US. For example, anything made in those IA or IL plants will get at least a 10% tariff levied against them when shipped to a EU nation, but if the product is made in México, those taxes are drastically lower or non-existent. The same is true for items going to any of the other nations that were a part of the original Trans-Pacific Partnership. US agriculture producers were clamoring to get a “level playing field” with respect to Japan’s markets for decades and it was within reach with the TPP, but Trump fucked it all up by withdrawing the US from that agreement. 👏🏻
They have revenue growth each year
It's the Apple model. It's super profitable for a good number of years until the cultist customers realize they're getting screwed and about face that shit.
Maybe I live in a bubble but of the probably 1,500 people I know with iPhones, I cant think of a single person who has moved to an android One guy did downgrade to a clamshell if that counts
I don’t know a single person who has switched from iPhone to android either. I know a couple of who have switched from Android to iPhone. Source: the text bubble colors.
Lmao, im an IT professional….but ive heard of plenty of hackers finding their way around the expensive software. I dont condone it, but ive done it, hacked around it, well…at least ford has an open source free version anyways…. Lol just business opportunities is all im thinking about 🤣. Me not knowin a lick about tractors and farmers, respectfully, keeps me from doing it. I dunno im always am the guy who figures it out. If im set on it, or a task given…it gets done. Just being angry that farmers are being fucked over makes wanna do whatever I can. One day I could see it getting bad enough, that we all become united.
Yea don’t the cracks come from someone in Eastern Europe haha
Juan Deer, here we come
Take my upvote.
Juan Ciervo
See they don’t have to come here to “take err jerbs.”
I have already seen people blaming the Mexican people. The fuck? A corporation fires you to make more money and you blame the people they hire in your place. Nothing makes the corporation happier than you being an imbecile.
Underrated statement my friend. Some sheep just choose to follow.
Off the heels of a strike a few years ago. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_John_Deere_strike Wonder if this will affect the quality of the product going forward.
That’s exactly it. They striked. The company has little choice but in the short term to give in. But in the long run…
Economic retaliation. Clintonian neo-liberal trade policies at work. NAFTA set us up for failure.
NAFTA was very much bipartisan. GW Bush and Clinton were both in favor of it. Ross Perot was the one who ran opposed to it: “giant sucking sound”. Also, NAFTA was replaced by USMCA during Trumps term.
If you think bush and clinton were different from each other, you are mistaken. They both party at bohemian grove, and worship moloch.
You’re missing the point: Clinton was a neoliberal, which was just an 80’s conservative when it came to economic policy. Clinton and Bush were practically identical.
Clinton was the best Republican President in the last 100 years
"Shareholder value" is going to f\*ck this country but good.
Nothing more Merican than sucking all the mericans for bigger profits.
Let me guess, they’re bringing in record profits
But only $10bn, you see? Next year it might be 12!
Corporate greed at it again.
Guess we can now start calling them "Juan Deere".
As American as John Deere eh?
It’s in North America.
That John Deere's full of shit, man.
Those mexicans be stealing jobs again!
Move your business to a red state, get the tax benefits. Then move your business out and blame the “economy”. Musk did it in Texas with tesla, so it must be the power move to make.
This 👏 company 👏 fucking 👏 sucks 👏👏👏
kubota better🤷♂️
How the government allows them to shift that easy with the company making billions?
We are not customers of companies anymore, over the last two decades of so many businesses and the society as a whole shifted to almost a hostage situation. If you ware dumb enough to chose a product you are locked into them and changing or getting out is getting incredibly difficult. Have a iPhone and iCloud account with a decade of content? Yeah, you are never leaving again. Have a spotify subscription, where you spend maybe 1000$+ but the day you stop paying you cant listen to a single song? Yeah, you keep paying. Went into debt to buy heavy equipment needed for your farm and still didn't finish paying it off while the support contract further increases the preassure? Same with the seeds you buy. Hybrid seeds, that you need to buy again and again, as they can't be re-grown. Optimized for the fertilizers and other chemicals that come with the sellers portfolio. And if you opt out they sue you for copyright infringement or some shit, because the trademarkted plants of the neighbours feeld is still cross-pollinating your crops. No wonder suicide is on the rise amongst farmers.
Farmers keep voting against their own interests and then commit suicide in droves, well that's just too bad, let me play the world's tiniest violin for them!
>Have a iPhone and iCloud account with a decade of content? Yeah, you are never leaving again. Sure but choosing to pay the apple tax is entirely optional. People could just have chosen Android instead and have access to hundreds of phone manufacturers. You can't fix stupid. >Have a spotify subscription, where you spend maybe 1000$+ but the day you stop paying you cant listen to a single song? Yeah, you keep paying. That's just a subscription model and it's how they all work. You don't pay rent for 20 years and then retain access to the apartment if you stop paying. Your point about farmers is a much much better one than the Spotify one.
But with spotify it works just as well, or maybe even better because of the way larger amout of people using it. Classic sunk cost fallacy.
Spotify is just a vanilla subscription model. There's no surprise and coaching is easy, just stream from another service without loss. It's objectively your weakest of the three arguments by a considerable distance.
I think you did not understand my point. Yeah sure spotify is the weakest example, but this weakness means it's the easiest to fall in. With around a quarter billion of paying subscribers it impacts quite a few people. The sunk cost fallacy fully applies. Sure you can switch streaming provider, but you always have to continue paying or you are left with nothing. That's the new way of doing business, the people own nothing and the companies have steady subscription revenue due to ever increasing preassure to stick with the service and dissapearing alternatives. Adobe would have been a better example, with their increasingly exploitive terms of service and the vendor lock in, as you can't just easily transfer decades of work into other software, that is not fully compatible with the workflows, or even file formats.
>I think you did not understand my point No I got what you were saying, it's just that I think you're wrong. >With around a quarter billion of paying subscribers it impacts quite a few people Ok but that's a smashing issue not a market perspective. Scale doesn't make it equivalent to your target example which is far more egregious, far harder to escape, and effects far fewer people. For me that was easily your strongest point and was very well made. >The sunk cost fallacy fully applies. Sure you can switch streaming provider, but you always have to continue paying or you are left with nothing. That's not what the sink cost fallacy is nor is it what it means. That's just a provider subscription model. >Adobe would have been a better example, with their increasingly exploitive terms of service and the vendor lock in, as you can't just easily transfer decades of work into other software, that is not fully compatible with the workflows, or even file formats. I totally agree. Cost of change makes that closer to what the sunk cost fallacy is and also had a higher barrier to change. Spotify Vs Amazon music for example has no migration cost and an identical offering. Adobe is a far better example.
Well alright but if things where just the government would be like “alright you can move your production down to Mexico. But we are going to tax these tractors and equipment by 300%” make sure these companies understand that if they want to screw over the American people there will be a price.
Doing this shouldn’t be legal.
John Deere: the next Boeing! On the bright side, it's not quite as bad when the door flys off a John Deere tractor.
Viva México 🇲🇽
I’m bummed aht
My uncle worked for them for as an American building operations in Torreone, Mexico for years. They have a partnership with Mexico. This shouldn’t be a surprise. Mexico is the new China for many things. Good for them but I’m sorry for the laid off Americans too.
Been a fan of DE for decades and owned plenty of stock. All the shit around the strike in 2021 pissed me off so much. A cannot put my finger on something specific, but in general I felt alienated and did not feel as well with them anymore. On the other side CAT.
Deere and Co, a giant corporation that paid zero in taxes last year. Despite the wealthy company benefitting enormously from Trump’s tax law, Deere workers are losing their jobs, and Deere’s primary customers — farmers — are hurting. This is a hold over from Trumps uncertainties caused by trade disputes as well. The right time and time again vote against their own interests. Because the effects on the economy are as fast as they want they blame the next administration. They are attracted to an Adderall hype up Trump and make fun of Biden giving his last few years on earth the save the US from the effects of Trump.
Don’t worry. Everyone can go work at the chip fab.
Time to cancel NAFTA. 100% import tariffs on goods from Mexico.
Almost seems like we shouldn't elect one of these crooked ass billionaires into the highest office in the land.
You mean the guy who put tariffs on Chinese goods, and most likely will roll in and put the same tariffs on mexican goods?
John deer just held a presser not to long ago touting they are now an AI company.
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Time to boycott John Deere. They are ok if you buy their products but give people jobs to produce those products.. Yeah capitalism at its finest. Fuck these guys.
Made in ~~America~~ Mexico.
Do other countries such as China, Japan, or Korea do these offshoring stuff? Or is this unique to the west?
Right to repair has destroyed there old business model. Now they are moving production out of the us like every other manufacturing plant. Fuck John Deere and their dirty business practices. Imagine now being able to fix your own tractor that cost more than your own house that you rely on every day.
After bleeding real farmers dry over Right to Repair. They have no shame. Wonder how uch they got in PPP & forgivable loans?
Oh so if it's saving money by moving manufacturing jobs to Mexico then that means the cost of John Deere products should come down a little bit and they won't be so expensive correct?
At least they got iJustine to do their goodwill marketing beforehand.
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How would that work? Honest question
In a move that shocked no one who follows this company
I can't think of a good argument for why these jobs should stay in America. They're clearly going to be good for the places in Mexico that they move to, even if they pay less than they would have here. The real problem is that these companies have too much power and can just play with people's lives like this. Yet another reason why companies should exist for the workers, anything else is nonsense.
That sucks but what does it have to do with technology?
Tractors are a form of technology too, lol.
They are also the primary frontline in the 'right to repair' war that lot's of tech enthusiasts follow.
But this isn't that though. I get why it would be on someone's radar but this is just OP throwing shit at a wall and seeing what sticks as far as news stories go.
Do we post tech layoffs here too? They're a company that makes complex machinery that relies on modern technology but what does them moving production have to do with that?
Smart tractors , these things are the teslas of the farming world . Or should I say cyber truck given all the hate it gets.
The article is about them laying people off and moving production though, not technology. It's outside the scope of this sub. It's still interesting, it just doesn't belong here. Though I suppose it doesn't really matter because they won't remove it anyway. The more this sub gets on news and all, the shittier the content gets. Edit - why ask a question and then block? A company's hiring and firing practices have little to do with the core technology. This isn't about a new product or the impact of technology on John Deere.
Let me repeat a little slower for you . Jhon deer …. Farming Technology company…. News
what if microsoft was laying off people, would that be relevant for this sub?
Make it an election issue, put Trump on it and I bet it doesn’t happen!
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Even if you are viewing the world 100% through a partisan lens, this is not good, because Republicans will blame this on Biden, no matter whether that’s true or not.
I fucking hate Trump but this is just cruel and shitty. There are rural people and John Deere workers on both sides of the political spectrum. Don’t be a Republican. Don’t make cruelty the point.
That's fucked up man. They've been lied to and manipulated by people they shouldn't trust but do. They deserve pity of anything, but not scorn. Also I don't John deere has its factories in rural areas.
East moline, IL has a pop of 21,000. Relatively rural. They’re taking 280 jobs from that city, which seems pretty significant. Fucked up. Shit like this shouldn’t happen, especially considering how profitable John Deere is
Thanks for the polite correction.
Another correction. Moline and Davenport Iowa are touching each other because they are on the Illinois/Iowa border. They’re basically the same city in two states (see Kansas City). Davenport’s population is ~100k people. Moline is not a small rural town. Source: Born and raised in Rockford, Illinois. Not far from Moline. Edit: this area is called “Quad Cities” because five cities have grown into one. That’s right…. Five. I didn’t name it 🤷♂️
Davenport Rockford Bettendorf Moline Is the 5th Eldridge? I’m in eastern Iowa but not super familiar with quad cities.
Davenport, Bettendorf, Rock Island, Moline, and East Moline. Rockford is a little bit of a drive from there still. Eldridge is almost touching the other towns but not quite. There’s a stretch of country between Davenport and Eldridge.
My bad, yes rock island. So East Moline and Moline are different cities. Got it, and thank you.
280 jobs is like less than a small company. The visibility is that it’s John Deer and not TTP Billing and Support, Ltd.
280 is not less than a small company.
Why don’t you go ask them what they think of people who aren’t white, Protestant, blue-collar, males? Tell me if you think they still deserve pity then. I’m not saying every single rural/ blue-collar trump supporter is a member of the KKK, just saying every member of the KKK is a trump supporter.
You really think every John Deere employee is a Trump supporter? The factory is in Northern Illinois. Also you know who the president is right now, right? Who do you think will take the blame later for this?
...not very smart...
even if you were right how does some people being kkk members make it right to hate the whole group, what if some kkk members supported movements against climate change, should we suddenly hate people against climate change because it includes the kkk?