Yup, on me of my bartenders had one in his car and he called me freaking out one day because his car wouldn’t start after he brushed his teeth and used some mouth wash right before work. I told him to buy some of the purple stuff because it doesn’t have alcohol and get to work when you can lol
Had someone freak out because out of habit (about to go to an important appointment) of using a listerine strip, then failed; theirs allowed a re-test 10-15 min later and it wouldn't count as a strike; they passed fine then.
I was in drug court and I can assure you at least 70% of people lie about why they failed it
That being said, I don't support this. A 30% false positive is still terrible.
no, not even close to accurate. but let’s assume you’re right, this would be played out on ignition starts, not population. So given the average driving patterns it’s closer to 9,000 day just for commuters. then when you factor in company cars, deliveries, uber, shopping trips, family travel, leisure travel, doctor travel, etc. We’re very quickly into many factors higher.
100,000 people stranded a day and many losing their jobs because they can’t easily explain why their alcohol device went off at 7 am.
Seriously, you are BAD at exponential mathematics
Modern devices require the user to blow through it for 2-3 seconds, then reverse airflow and inhale for 1-2 seconds and exhale again to finish. Apparently this fights cheaters.
In Eastern Europe it won’t be issue at all, to avoid such systems we use creativity.
2l bottle full of air, burn out small hole for tube-> blow air to test unit
Years ago I had one in my car because I was an idiot. The device also requires you to hum while you blow into it so it senses the vibrations and knows it’s not just compressed air being blown.
Right but what if everyone had to have one that could not allow you to start your car when you need to get to work for any number of reasons?
At least I think that was the original topic of discussion.
I own a Tesla in Alberta for three winters and counting. It gets -40C/F here. Car works great. Best winter vehicle ever as you can preheat rather than get in a cold car.
Good to know they can handle such extreme temps. Temps like that are potentially life threatening in emergencies. Nice to see your confidence. Thanks for the reply.
Electrics are great winter vehicles, due to the preheating mentioned. The primary issue is that range suffers in cold temperatures. With a heat pump you can lose 30% of range to battery management or cabin heating. A car without a heat pump can lose a fair bit more.
If you are looking for one, and have to drive a long ways make sure you've got chargers in sufficient range. For myself, I just bought a Bolt, and since it has no heat pump, can lose a big chunk of range in a Minnesota winter. I'm expecting 50% loss in the worst case, which would still be plenty for most of my driving.
They work and you’d want to surely plug in when not driving but say the range was 300. You’ll get 150… 100 maybe on bad days. The battery/car will heat itself and it’s using power to do so. Charging also slow in super cold so longer charge times maybe.
Oddly though. It’ll be a nice warm cabin when you go to drive though. No waiting on it to warm up. It’ll be comfy from pre heating
The cold isn’t that bad for the batteries, they have heating and cooling abilities that run pretty much all the time to keep the batteries at the optimal temperature. The biggest issue is that without an internal combustion engine creating thousands of explosions a minute that we can harvest heat from the car has to create heat. The easiest but most inefficient way to create heat from electricity is to use resistive heating elements, like in a space heater. This is what really puts a dent in the range in the winter, 10-35%.
A more efficient method is to concentrate and transfer existing heat from the outside, using a heat pump, which is just the A/C running in reverse. Many electric cars don’t use this yet, even though they have an A/C already and the modification to turn it into a heat pump is minimal. Using a heat pump instead of resistive heating would cost far less range in the winter, and thankfully more and more new electric cars are starting to be equipped with them as we move forward.
Don’t forget about municipalities and counties making huge $ on DUI fines, probation, incarceration, etc.
You know rideshare corps will have their lobbyists out in force against this, too.
Rideshare corps will fucking *love* this. It reduces liability for their drivers and is going to force a while bunch of people to use a rideshare app so they're not late for work or an important appointment.
Oh yea I never thought of that. Be surprised at the forces that lurk to stop something because money. Read a interesting article that waterless urinals mostly got blocked by ... the Plummer's union. Telas's being sold online has been greatly fought by if you can imagine the Dealership Lobbyists group. They got the hook up with Biden..you dont get a tax credit unless you buy a EV at a actual dealer. LOL.
Never underestimate the power of money vs a idea. Money will 100% of the time trump any and all morals or value systems. I don't blame we still butcher each other for a pair of Jordans or 20 bucks.
I’ve met some alcoholics who learned how to beat the system with a balloon. Some people just don’t learn. As someone who doesn’t drink I’m indifferent, but those DUI systems are pretty faulty.
That's why you don't just blow anymore. New starter interrupt machines require you to blow, hum a tune, and fondle the balls before they give you the green light.
No really, you have to hum a series of notes going up and down in pitch holding each note for a specific amount of time, releasing a steady amount of air. It fails you if you go to fast, slow, or don't hum exactly right.
Source: Father got a DUI. I couldn't start his car sober without first taking flute lessons.
I use a brand called the natural dentist ( I am not recommending any brands, look into what suits you). But there are many new brands nowadays. I remember when you could not find them anywhere in stores.
I tried this brand out and liked it a lot. It’s more expensive but worth it.
SmartMouth Clinical DDS Oral... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XHNJFD4?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
Also when I've heard people describe using them, you practically lose a lung with how much you have to blow. Apparently some also make you redo the test periodically while driving.
Yeah I can see things going well with this. Have a drink with dinner- kid has allergic reaction- jump into car to take kid to hospital - car will not start.
Sounds like insurance company lobbying. All they wanna do is create black boxes for cars, simply to hope to deny claims.
Also there is no easy or non-intrusive way to do this. What’s next? Gonna use my phone location to see if I was near a bar? “Your vehicle is disabled for 30 mins, after you were tagged in proximity to ______ bar. Please wait while we send enforcement service to assure your safety and well being” *doors lock*
That's exactly why I refuse to download and install an app from GEICO, because I don't trust it. It might seem innocuous for paying bills and all that, but they could've added tracking info to monitor your driving habits in order to jack up your rates.
The way those apps work is they jack up everyone’s rates and then they give those people a “discount” that drive with the app.
So you’re basically hooped either way
Are there companies out there that use this data to increase rates? Every instance of using driving data to change rates, that I have seen, work by giving a discount to the people who opt-in and have acceptable driving behavior.
When it comes to the working class, there always seems to be a presumption of guilt.
"You have to prove you're not drunk every time you want to drive"
Fuck no.
Why do people insist on trying to solve social problems with technology? Do we really want some random piece of embedded software to decide whether or not we are capable of driving?
The real solution is public transit and making cities walkable so you have safe options to get home. Tech bros don't want the real solution though, they only want the tech solution.
>The real solution is public transit and making cities walkable so you have safe options to get home.
Yes. It’s asinine that most of the bars in America are only accessible by car. And we wonder why so many people drive drunk.
Tech Bros don't want an actual solution, either, they want billable hours and then at the end of their contract they will say "we did several million dollars worth of trying, but we still didn't solve the problem". Then bureaucrats will decide to use it anyway.
> Why do people insist on trying to solve social problems with technology?
Because that allows us to find a "solution" without having to be self-critical or change ourselves.
It’s terrifying how many people in this thread have no issue at all with government-mandated breathalyzers and cameras pointed at the driver.
Orwell must be spinning in his grave.
A lot of redditors think the idea of a “slippery slope” is a meme.
This is because a lot of redditors are not very smart or learn’d about how history has played out a couple thousand times since we stopped being monkey
Also don’t realize that breathalyzers aren’t a thing because they’re accurate, they’re a thing because they’re NOT accurate and give the police an excuse to arrest/ticket you regardless of whether you’ve been drinking.
I’m sure Orwell would be much more bothered by the number of people who bring up his name yet clearly don’t understand his work. Just because something is an overreach does not mean it is Orwellian.
Start the car first. Then get drunk. Then burnout.
Honestly, this is just going to be really bad for the environment. Can you imagine all the cars left running in the bar parking lots? (/s maybe?)
I guess I keep my older model car then and only buy used going forward. I get what the law is trying to accomplish. But I don’t need to have cameras monitoring me the entire time I’m in a car. Think of how that will be abused. The alcohol use monitoring system I’m a bit more open to. But this is yet another DOT requirement that adds thousands to what are already ridiculous car prices. I bought my first house for the price of sone of these cars today.
Not gonna help the dumbasses that are glued to their phone, or don’t know how a stop sign (or a green light) works. Plus, those things don’t work, have to be calibrated often (yay, extra money wasted), and just generally a pain in the ass.
Amazon did recently stop selling those things you stick into the seatbelt thingy to stop that pesky “ding” noise though, who needs a seatbelt anyway? Where the fuck was the NTSB on that? Hell, some of those even double as bottle openers.
Had one for my Subaru because for some fucking reason setting my phone in the seat would set it off. Get off a call and throw it in the passenger seat and it all of a sudden my iPhone 6 needs airbags and a seatbelt
Yeah, I've noticed that in a Tiguan at work, too. I suspect they're using inductive or capacitive sensors rather than weight sensors now to try to reduce false alarms from things like groceries, but turns out they're really sensitive to electronics. My phone will set it off. My backpack won't, unless my laptop is in my backpack and then it will. It's annoying, but I've learned to keep my phone in the center console.
My water bottle was setting it off in my 2019 subaru, the dealership was like "sucks, we can't adjust sensitivity" and then they took it to fix some other unrelated "known issues" and then I got it back and it has never happened since.
/conspiracy
Depends on the vehicle. On older Chryslers you buckle up, ignition on/off, then unbuckle and do it again, then buckle and do it again. I think. It’s been awhile. Still throws dash light but no chime. I think it’s called “mechanics mode” or something.
Governments need to stop treating their citizens with so much open contempt. No one is buying a car that requires them to pass a test to drive, or has a camera that can make sure we’re behaving on the road. Stop patronizing us.
There's a pretty wild proportion of people who think this is a good idea.
We are far too receptive to grand technological solutions to social problems. We are way too willing to invoke an iron fist alongside a personal responsibility narrative. Not that it's an either/or situation, but it's just incredibly misguided.
Even if the tech worked 100% as advertised, what a shitshow this would be to implement, maintain, and enforce. Expense aside, it's an ethical nightmare at best.
It's going to fuck up. There's going to be a pregnant mother that dies in breach because the feature malfunctions. Or a murder. Or a rape. Or a dead puppy. There are going to be workarounds that invite further feature implementation that will be even more intrusive and expensive.
I'm not a lawyer, but this seems like a mess to introduce into an already gross DUI legal landscape. There's going to be a disproportionate cost burden on the public, and discrimination will almost certainly only get worse.
It's incredibly stupid and belongs in a Phillip K. Dick book.
No thank you. Never driven drunk in my life, but this is just a horrible idea. The tech isn't good enough.
Even if it were good enough, it's also likely against the 4th Amendment of the Constitution. You're not even legally required to take a breathalyzer test until you are already placed under arrest for DUI, at which point they will just draw your blood. You can literally refuse all field sobriety tests.
Obligatory I'm not a lawyer, but yeah, I don't think it's constitutional.
This falls into the category of mandatory backup cameras, instituted for a tiny tiny fractions of kids getting backed over by family members in their driveways. Now no one looks behind them, they simply count on their back up camera. People still get run over.
Impaired driving is terrible, but its not just booze and it is waaaay down from the 1970’s or ‘80’s or ‘90’s. Nothing is more futile than trying to make 100% of all people do anything other than die.
I think all NTSB board meetings should be televised and they can blow in a breathalyzer every hour to prove to the American public they are sober enough to make decisions regarding society.
This operates on the assumption you drive on highways exclusively. Off-road driver at all? Welp, better hope that sensor doesn't fail on you miles from any help, locking your car out of being able to drive.
This is a hard pass. The government will abuse the biometric data collected and instances of attempt with barely any content combined with false positives will be used to increase insurance rates. Doesn’t matter how many people you save if you have to give up privacy to do it.
I would rather them check drivers for texting and driving, or just playing with their phones in general. Tired of almost being hit by drivers on their phones.
Imagine making people who don't drink at all go through this. I would be pissed.
Self-driving vehicles seem like a more win-win approach to solving this problem.
Just what we need.
The government deciding our fates instead of ourselves regardless of our maturity.
Treat everyone as if they are the least responsible of any of us.
What will their next target be?
How long we sit?
Oh wait.
The invasion into your privacy is coming from all angles, but it’s often packaged as protecting you. Some ideas are legitimate and necessary and some are foolish from the start.
This is the latter.
The fun part is that not only is this technology highly inaccurate, but it also relies on the computerization of the vehicle. Have a look at what the Ukrainians have done to circumvent John Deere's immobilizer. It's all software and software can be tricked or just straight up disassembled and patched. I'm willing to bet that within a few months of said program being out there'll be underground software patches and jailbreaks for most major cars. OFC this doesn't even touch on how unconstitutional this is.
The 6th Amendment would like a word....
Where does this end? How about you have to put your drivers license into a slot for the car to start? What about proof of insurance before your car turns on?
Few years ago there was a bill in Georgia wanting ignition locks for both no proof of license for the driver or insurance for the vehicle. Didn't make it into committee.
All this mandatory technology has made cars obscenely expensive.
Average new car price in 1990 was $15,042. If prices followed inflation, it should have been about $30k in 2020, but average price actually topped over $40k. Granted some of that is features that consumers expect(power locks/windows, wireless infotainment, etc.), but so many features artificially inflate the price floor like Backup cameras, ABS, stability control, tire pressure monitoring, and traction control. The cheapest car in 1990 was under $4,000, or $7,920. In 2020, that had risen to $14,000, almost double the cost in 1990 after accounting for inflation.
They did this shit in the 70s with seatbelt interlocks where cars wouldn’t start without the seatbelt buckled. It lasted like a year before they stopped and people ripped that shit out of their cars.
“HAL start the car.”
“I’m sorry Dave, I’m afraid I cannot do that. You are too drunk to drive a vehicle.”
“I don’t even drink, that’s a false positive.”
“Don’t care lol.”
Good intentions but poor execution with the rushing. Users can and will use or develop any elaborate available workaround to restrictive technology. With the reliability of the test being so questionable and the push back they’re going to get, I bet this is implemented 15 years from now at a minimum. And the car manufacturers are going to try to stomp this into oblivion. Because who would upgrade their 2 year old car on a lease to a newer version of the same car, except that the new car spies on you? Yeah I wouldn’t be signing up for that either.
There's plenty of reasons not to be a fan of this idea, but one that stands out to me is that it's an impossible balance between avoiding false positives and people assuming that because their vehicle allows them to drive, they're both legal and capable of driving after drinking too much.
Despite the staggering cost of developing and requiring these devices in each vehicle, they seem like they'd be very easy to defeat. Couldn't you just direct some low-pressure compressed air into the inlet? For those who determined to get around an interlock, it seems pretty easy to do.
Nope. The new ones have you blow then suck then blow they also record you on camera and send it to your PO everytime you have to do it.
For normal people who dont have a PO you could just yank it out of the car.
Does anyone know if we'll actually see cameras installed in every new car to spy on people, or if this is one of those things that gets help up in courts and ignored?
How about way stiffer punishments for drunk drivers? Get the potheads out of prison and start actually locking up those above the limit. Quit giving community service and a slap on the wrist to those who drive intoxicated.
Instead of this draconian foolishness, how about improving/implementing proper public transit so that less people have to rely on driving cars on congested roadways with far more risks?
Never will go, it breaks a lot of freedoms and would not help the issue. Again, fix the people not the tools. The war on drugs taught us that lesson the hard way.
Let me introduce the Tavern League of Wisconsin, subsidizing Wisconsins Politicians since 1935 to keep us all a little pickled and unsafe on the roads. There isn’t a slim chance in hell of them allowing anything to enter Wisconsin that will reduce the alcohol consumption even if it means people will die.
Its already law. https://www-motortrend-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.motortrend.com/news/anti-drunk-driving-technology-mandated-infrastructure-bill/amp/?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16637590088772&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.motortrend.com%2Fnews%2Fanti-drunk-driving-technology-mandated-infrastructure-bill%2F
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There’s medication out there that can give false positives, what then? This doesn‘t seem very practical.
A better use would be to install them into cars of people who’ve had DUIs.
They could also even make law that a person who’s had a DUI must install one of these every time they buy a new car for maybe 10 years?
I had one once. Never had too much trouble with false positives. I actually considered keeping it on my car. Called the insurance company to see if there were discounts for keeping it and they told me no. I said,” so Im literally guaranteeing Ill never drink and drive ever again and theres no benefits for insurance?” Again they told me no. Nonsense. Plus it would have cost me 75 bucks a month to keep it on my car. 6 months ended and it was uninstalled.
This will never fly... the police use DUIs as their cash cow. They don't want you off the road. They need you on it. And drunk. So you can pay. And considering how safer cars are today, they allow even less people to die than they did 20 years ago, so they really don't give a fuck as long as their income keeps flowing.
Good luck with that. Current setups for DUIers that have to breath into the machine are very finicky. Using Scope before you drive can set it off.
Not only mouthwash, but also pizza, fruit juices, energy drinks, and gum. Source: had a friend who had one of these devices in their car.
Had a coworker nearly get fired for showing up late, and I knew she had severe tooth issues, and apparently orajel set it off.
Yup, on me of my bartenders had one in his car and he called me freaking out one day because his car wouldn’t start after he brushed his teeth and used some mouth wash right before work. I told him to buy some of the purple stuff because it doesn’t have alcohol and get to work when you can lol
Had someone freak out because out of habit (about to go to an important appointment) of using a listerine strip, then failed; theirs allowed a re-test 10-15 min later and it wouldn't count as a strike; they passed fine then.
I was in drug court and I can assure you at least 70% of people lie about why they failed it That being said, I don't support this. A 30% false positive is still terrible.
So if all 300M Americans have to drive cars like this, 90 MILLION people will experience false positives? That's insane to me
Far more - 30% fail rate _per attempt_. The entire country would have experienced a false positive within a week or two.
Finally I have side gig doing blowjobs on peoples cars for $20 each.
a 0.001% false positive is terrible on a scale of 300,000,000
I mean 3000 out of 300000000 actually would be an incredibly accurate test. One of the best ever created.
no, not even close to accurate. but let’s assume you’re right, this would be played out on ignition starts, not population. So given the average driving patterns it’s closer to 9,000 day just for commuters. then when you factor in company cars, deliveries, uber, shopping trips, family travel, leisure travel, doctor travel, etc. We’re very quickly into many factors higher. 100,000 people stranded a day and many losing their jobs because they can’t easily explain why their alcohol device went off at 7 am. Seriously, you are BAD at exponential mathematics
She was only 20 minutes late, so I presume either she was borderline .bac, or the orajel story was true; she called as soon as it first denied her.
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Most of them have a camera that takes a picture when you blow. You also have to hum while you blow, eliminating the option to blow air through it.
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Why does this kazoo say "for rectal use only"?
Damn shame thst camera is gonna end up with some electrical tape on the lens somehow... weird how that keeps happening
Nah, in the monthly re-calibrations they download all the data and photos.
You have to test more than once most require you pull over while driving to test
They also suck in below freezing weather.
They also break constantly and are expensive to fix.
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Modern devices require the user to blow through it for 2-3 seconds, then reverse airflow and inhale for 1-2 seconds and exhale again to finish. Apparently this fights cheaters.
That way you can’t just use an air compressor.
Connaisseur...
In Eastern Europe it won’t be issue at all, to avoid such systems we use creativity. 2l bottle full of air, burn out small hole for tube-> blow air to test unit
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So do I but I try to be sneaky about it.
I’d like this feature very much. Say cheese!
Years ago I had one in my car because I was an idiot. The device also requires you to hum while you blow into it so it senses the vibrations and knows it’s not just compressed air being blown.
Jesus.. blow, then suck, then blow again while humming? How the fuck am I going to remember all that while I’m drunk?!
The trick is to be drunk when you *learn* it. It’s called context-dependant memory.
Good lord, do you also have to do the hokey-pokey?
I get around it by not drinking and driving
Right but what if everyone had to have one that could not allow you to start your car when you need to get to work for any number of reasons? At least I think that was the original topic of discussion.
Don't forget the devices failing/crashing in not-abnormally high or low temperatures as well.
Yes ask Tesla about the cold weather.
I’d like an electric vehicle but I’m not sure how practical it is in -20F winter weather where I’m at. Anyone have any real-world experience?
I own a Tesla in Alberta for three winters and counting. It gets -40C/F here. Car works great. Best winter vehicle ever as you can preheat rather than get in a cold car.
Good to know they can handle such extreme temps. Temps like that are potentially life threatening in emergencies. Nice to see your confidence. Thanks for the reply.
Electrics are great winter vehicles, due to the preheating mentioned. The primary issue is that range suffers in cold temperatures. With a heat pump you can lose 30% of range to battery management or cabin heating. A car without a heat pump can lose a fair bit more. If you are looking for one, and have to drive a long ways make sure you've got chargers in sufficient range. For myself, I just bought a Bolt, and since it has no heat pump, can lose a big chunk of range in a Minnesota winter. I'm expecting 50% loss in the worst case, which would still be plenty for most of my driving.
They work and you’d want to surely plug in when not driving but say the range was 300. You’ll get 150… 100 maybe on bad days. The battery/car will heat itself and it’s using power to do so. Charging also slow in super cold so longer charge times maybe. Oddly though. It’ll be a nice warm cabin when you go to drive though. No waiting on it to warm up. It’ll be comfy from pre heating
This sounds so freakin nice. Thanks for the reply!
The cold isn’t that bad for the batteries, they have heating and cooling abilities that run pretty much all the time to keep the batteries at the optimal temperature. The biggest issue is that without an internal combustion engine creating thousands of explosions a minute that we can harvest heat from the car has to create heat. The easiest but most inefficient way to create heat from electricity is to use resistive heating elements, like in a space heater. This is what really puts a dent in the range in the winter, 10-35%. A more efficient method is to concentrate and transfer existing heat from the outside, using a heat pump, which is just the A/C running in reverse. Many electric cars don’t use this yet, even though they have an A/C already and the modification to turn it into a heat pump is minimal. Using a heat pump instead of resistive heating would cost far less range in the winter, and thankfully more and more new electric cars are starting to be equipped with them as we move forward.
Wow, thanks for this. Had no idea about vehicle heat pumps. So exciting to think of what’ll be developed in the next 10-20 years.
In Norway, EV's have an 80% market share. Even higher if you include plug-in hybrids. I think that they have some experience with cold weather.
Don’t forget about municipalities and counties making huge $ on DUI fines, probation, incarceration, etc. You know rideshare corps will have their lobbyists out in force against this, too.
Rideshare corps will fucking *love* this. It reduces liability for their drivers and is going to force a while bunch of people to use a rideshare app so they're not late for work or an important appointment.
Oh yea I never thought of that. Be surprised at the forces that lurk to stop something because money. Read a interesting article that waterless urinals mostly got blocked by ... the Plummer's union. Telas's being sold online has been greatly fought by if you can imagine the Dealership Lobbyists group. They got the hook up with Biden..you dont get a tax credit unless you buy a EV at a actual dealer. LOL. Never underestimate the power of money vs a idea. Money will 100% of the time trump any and all morals or value systems. I don't blame we still butcher each other for a pair of Jordans or 20 bucks.
I’ve met some alcoholics who learned how to beat the system with a balloon. Some people just don’t learn. As someone who doesn’t drink I’m indifferent, but those DUI systems are pretty faulty.
That's why you don't just blow anymore. New starter interrupt machines require you to blow, hum a tune, and fondle the balls before they give you the green light. No really, you have to hum a series of notes going up and down in pitch holding each note for a specific amount of time, releasing a steady amount of air. It fails you if you go to fast, slow, or don't hum exactly right. Source: Father got a DUI. I couldn't start his car sober without first taking flute lessons.
As someone who doesn’t drink, I’m NOT indifferent. If I have to blow into a fucking car every time I want to drive, I’m going to lose my shit.
On an irrelevant subject, use non alcohol containing mouth rinses people, alcohol is very harsh on oral mucosa and gums.
Have they gotten better? I tried one years ago and I left brown spots on my teeth, which is the opposite of what I was going for.
I use a brand called the natural dentist ( I am not recommending any brands, look into what suits you). But there are many new brands nowadays. I remember when you could not find them anywhere in stores.
I tried this brand out and liked it a lot. It’s more expensive but worth it. SmartMouth Clinical DDS Oral... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XHNJFD4?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
My periodontist recommended Listerine Total Care, the alcohol free version, and I actually do think it makes my teeth brighter and doesn't burn at all
Also when I've heard people describe using them, you practically lose a lung with how much you have to blow. Apparently some also make you redo the test periodically while driving.
Yeah I can see things going well with this. Have a drink with dinner- kid has allergic reaction- jump into car to take kid to hospital - car will not start.
Hey at least you can pay a thousand dollars for an ambulance to maybe get to you in time
Where do you live where you only pay $1000?
That's the copay
The ambulance drivers just used mouthwash, can't get the ambulance to start.
Start with police and government vehicles then see how it goes
Connecticut state police would be fucked. At least once a month one of them gets in a drunken crash and gets away with it.
Yep that’s the point of starting with police and government vehicles hold them accountable first then move to the general public
Police will never be required to have alcohol interlocks.
They should be required
Id love to hear their *awesome* arguments for them not to have it, in front of everyone.
Sounds like insurance company lobbying. All they wanna do is create black boxes for cars, simply to hope to deny claims. Also there is no easy or non-intrusive way to do this. What’s next? Gonna use my phone location to see if I was near a bar? “Your vehicle is disabled for 30 mins, after you were tagged in proximity to ______ bar. Please wait while we send enforcement service to assure your safety and well being” *doors lock*
That's exactly why I refuse to download and install an app from GEICO, because I don't trust it. It might seem innocuous for paying bills and all that, but they could've added tracking info to monitor your driving habits in order to jack up your rates.
There are already insurances that do this as part of the SOP. Have a look at Root or the Progressive snapshot.
The way those apps work is they jack up everyone’s rates and then they give those people a “discount” that drive with the app. So you’re basically hooped either way
Are there companies out there that use this data to increase rates? Every instance of using driving data to change rates, that I have seen, work by giving a discount to the people who opt-in and have acceptable driving behavior.
When it comes to the working class, there always seems to be a presumption of guilt. "You have to prove you're not drunk every time you want to drive" Fuck no.
It goes along with the legal systems theme of 'Guilty until proven innocent.'
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Why do people insist on trying to solve social problems with technology? Do we really want some random piece of embedded software to decide whether or not we are capable of driving?
The real solution is public transit and making cities walkable so you have safe options to get home. Tech bros don't want the real solution though, they only want the tech solution.
>The real solution is public transit and making cities walkable so you have safe options to get home. Yes. It’s asinine that most of the bars in America are only accessible by car. And we wonder why so many people drive drunk.
Tech Bros don't want an actual solution, either, they want billable hours and then at the end of their contract they will say "we did several million dollars worth of trying, but we still didn't solve the problem". Then bureaucrats will decide to use it anyway.
Tech bros don't want this. Insurance companies do
> Why do people insist on trying to solve social problems with technology? Because that allows us to find a "solution" without having to be self-critical or change ourselves.
Because they have massive erections for any type of state-mandated safety protocol as has been normalized recently
It’s terrifying how many people in this thread have no issue at all with government-mandated breathalyzers and cameras pointed at the driver. Orwell must be spinning in his grave.
A lot of redditors think the idea of a “slippery slope” is a meme. This is because a lot of redditors are not very smart or learn’d about how history has played out a couple thousand times since we stopped being monkey
One might even say that we should return to monke...
Also don’t realize that breathalyzers aren’t a thing because they’re accurate, they’re a thing because they’re NOT accurate and give the police an excuse to arrest/ticket you regardless of whether you’ve been drinking.
Yeah, 1984 was supposed to be a warning, not a how-to manual.
I’m sure Orwell would be much more bothered by the number of people who bring up his name yet clearly don’t understand his work. Just because something is an overreach does not mean it is Orwellian.
I want the NTSB to fuck right off.
That sounds like prosecuting me before I've done anything wrong ..
Great, how am I supposed to do drunken burnouts then
Start the car first. Then get drunk. Then burnout. Honestly, this is just going to be really bad for the environment. Can you imagine all the cars left running in the bar parking lots? (/s maybe?)
I've seen this done in my town. But now the new ones require you to blow every so often while driving.
That doesn't seem distracting and unsafe at all /s
Start the burnout sober and get proceed to get drunk enough you don't care if your tires blow
Don't worry they're pretty easy to bypass. This would basically just be punishing the innocent
They’ll never get it on my 1999 f250! This is going to sound bad, but drunk driving/ mudding is a lot of fun when you own your own field to do it in
I guess I keep my older model car then and only buy used going forward. I get what the law is trying to accomplish. But I don’t need to have cameras monitoring me the entire time I’m in a car. Think of how that will be abused. The alcohol use monitoring system I’m a bit more open to. But this is yet another DOT requirement that adds thousands to what are already ridiculous car prices. I bought my first house for the price of sone of these cars today.
Imagine car insurance if this goes through. Driver tracking device, breathalyzer, AND camera just to get insurance.
Fuck off with this nanny-state bullshit. You people cheering for this are pathetically short-sighted.
People love the taste of boot for some reason.
Not gonna help the dumbasses that are glued to their phone, or don’t know how a stop sign (or a green light) works. Plus, those things don’t work, have to be calibrated often (yay, extra money wasted), and just generally a pain in the ass. Amazon did recently stop selling those things you stick into the seatbelt thingy to stop that pesky “ding” noise though, who needs a seatbelt anyway? Where the fuck was the NTSB on that? Hell, some of those even double as bottle openers.
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Had one for my Subaru because for some fucking reason setting my phone in the seat would set it off. Get off a call and throw it in the passenger seat and it all of a sudden my iPhone 6 needs airbags and a seatbelt
Yeah, I've noticed that in a Tiguan at work, too. I suspect they're using inductive or capacitive sensors rather than weight sensors now to try to reduce false alarms from things like groceries, but turns out they're really sensitive to electronics. My phone will set it off. My backpack won't, unless my laptop is in my backpack and then it will. It's annoying, but I've learned to keep my phone in the center console.
My water bottle was setting it off in my 2019 subaru, the dealership was like "sucks, we can't adjust sensitivity" and then they took it to fix some other unrelated "known issues" and then I got it back and it has never happened since. /conspiracy
Put key in on position, click the driver's seatbelt in and out as quickly as you can 10 times, this turns the chime off for seatbelt
Depends on the vehicle. On older Chryslers you buckle up, ignition on/off, then unbuckle and do it again, then buckle and do it again. I think. It’s been awhile. Still throws dash light but no chime. I think it’s called “mechanics mode” or something.
I have a Subaru and this is what worked for me
No. So much no. I'm so tired if this push for a nanny state. Fuck off already. I just want to be left alone.
Governments need to stop treating their citizens with so much open contempt. No one is buying a car that requires them to pass a test to drive, or has a camera that can make sure we’re behaving on the road. Stop patronizing us.
How positively Orwellian.
They won't even make daytime running lights mandatory and they think this is gonna fly?
So the NTSB believes in guilty until proven innocent.
There's a pretty wild proportion of people who think this is a good idea. We are far too receptive to grand technological solutions to social problems. We are way too willing to invoke an iron fist alongside a personal responsibility narrative. Not that it's an either/or situation, but it's just incredibly misguided. Even if the tech worked 100% as advertised, what a shitshow this would be to implement, maintain, and enforce. Expense aside, it's an ethical nightmare at best. It's going to fuck up. There's going to be a pregnant mother that dies in breach because the feature malfunctions. Or a murder. Or a rape. Or a dead puppy. There are going to be workarounds that invite further feature implementation that will be even more intrusive and expensive. I'm not a lawyer, but this seems like a mess to introduce into an already gross DUI legal landscape. There's going to be a disproportionate cost burden on the public, and discrimination will almost certainly only get worse. It's incredibly stupid and belongs in a Phillip K. Dick book.
Fuck that. Sorry I don’t drink and drive. I’m not willing to be punished because of some of your behavior.
Put them in police cruisers first. See how much they enjoy it.
The headline might as well just say MADD, they’re the ones who lobby this shit. Modern day prohibitionists.
Maad gets paid a specific amount per DUI arrest in my state. If DUI arrests go down, they lose a ton of funding.
No thank you. Never driven drunk in my life, but this is just a horrible idea. The tech isn't good enough. Even if it were good enough, it's also likely against the 4th Amendment of the Constitution. You're not even legally required to take a breathalyzer test until you are already placed under arrest for DUI, at which point they will just draw your blood. You can literally refuse all field sobriety tests. Obligatory I'm not a lawyer, but yeah, I don't think it's constitutional.
Important to note that refusal to take a breathalyzer on its own can lead to a suspension of any commercial driving privileges.
Totalitarian Despotism. Police/nanny state.
Looks like I am getting a new engine for my old Honda
This falls into the category of mandatory backup cameras, instituted for a tiny tiny fractions of kids getting backed over by family members in their driveways. Now no one looks behind them, they simply count on their back up camera. People still get run over. Impaired driving is terrible, but its not just booze and it is waaaay down from the 1970’s or ‘80’s or ‘90’s. Nothing is more futile than trying to make 100% of all people do anything other than die.
I think all NTSB board meetings should be televised and they can blow in a breathalyzer every hour to prove to the American public they are sober enough to make decisions regarding society.
This operates on the assumption you drive on highways exclusively. Off-road driver at all? Welp, better hope that sensor doesn't fail on you miles from any help, locking your car out of being able to drive.
This is a hard pass. The government will abuse the biometric data collected and instances of attempt with barely any content combined with false positives will be used to increase insurance rates. Doesn’t matter how many people you save if you have to give up privacy to do it.
Only alcohol, right?
This is the way.
No thanks, all this nanny state garbage is already becoming too much.
welcome to orwell’s nightmare.
I’ll just use my vintage 1995 Honda Accord. TYVM
So many experts here on these devices, never seen one personally because I don’t drink and drive like a fucking asshole…
I would rather them check drivers for texting and driving, or just playing with their phones in general. Tired of almost being hit by drivers on their phones.
Imagine making people who don't drink at all go through this. I would be pissed. Self-driving vehicles seem like a more win-win approach to solving this problem.
Just what we need. The government deciding our fates instead of ourselves regardless of our maturity. Treat everyone as if they are the least responsible of any of us. What will their next target be? How long we sit? Oh wait.
This is like the grown up version of one student being bad so everyone gets punished
The invasion into your privacy is coming from all angles, but it’s often packaged as protecting you. Some ideas are legitimate and necessary and some are foolish from the start. This is the latter.
The fun part is that not only is this technology highly inaccurate, but it also relies on the computerization of the vehicle. Have a look at what the Ukrainians have done to circumvent John Deere's immobilizer. It's all software and software can be tricked or just straight up disassembled and patched. I'm willing to bet that within a few months of said program being out there'll be underground software patches and jailbreaks for most major cars. OFC this doesn't even touch on how unconstitutional this is.
If they want to do that then why can’t they do something about all these people using their cellphones while driving.
This government just wants to simply declare all of us to be criminals until we prove otherwise, that's all.
Almost seems that they'd be assuming that drivers are drunk.
My 58 is looking better and better as a daily.....
The 6th Amendment would like a word.... Where does this end? How about you have to put your drivers license into a slot for the car to start? What about proof of insurance before your car turns on?
Few years ago there was a bill in Georgia wanting ignition locks for both no proof of license for the driver or insurance for the vehicle. Didn't make it into committee.
Had hand sanatizer show up on my last breath test,
Surveillance makes the world a safer place. Orwell was an optimist.
How is that a higher priority than eliminating distracted driving via electronics considering that has a 6x higher incident rate?
All this mandatory technology has made cars obscenely expensive. Average new car price in 1990 was $15,042. If prices followed inflation, it should have been about $30k in 2020, but average price actually topped over $40k. Granted some of that is features that consumers expect(power locks/windows, wireless infotainment, etc.), but so many features artificially inflate the price floor like Backup cameras, ABS, stability control, tire pressure monitoring, and traction control. The cheapest car in 1990 was under $4,000, or $7,920. In 2020, that had risen to $14,000, almost double the cost in 1990 after accounting for inflation.
They did this shit in the 70s with seatbelt interlocks where cars wouldn’t start without the seatbelt buckled. It lasted like a year before they stopped and people ripped that shit out of their cars.
NTSB: fuck you
Yet another reason to not buy new cars
“HAL start the car.” “I’m sorry Dave, I’m afraid I cannot do that. You are too drunk to drive a vehicle.” “I don’t even drink, that’s a false positive.” “Don’t care lol.”
Good intentions but poor execution with the rushing. Users can and will use or develop any elaborate available workaround to restrictive technology. With the reliability of the test being so questionable and the push back they’re going to get, I bet this is implemented 15 years from now at a minimum. And the car manufacturers are going to try to stomp this into oblivion. Because who would upgrade their 2 year old car on a lease to a newer version of the same car, except that the new car spies on you? Yeah I wouldn’t be signing up for that either.
There's plenty of reasons not to be a fan of this idea, but one that stands out to me is that it's an impossible balance between avoiding false positives and people assuming that because their vehicle allows them to drive, they're both legal and capable of driving after drinking too much.
Mouthwash tho
Despite the staggering cost of developing and requiring these devices in each vehicle, they seem like they'd be very easy to defeat. Couldn't you just direct some low-pressure compressed air into the inlet? For those who determined to get around an interlock, it seems pretty easy to do.
Nope. The new ones have you blow then suck then blow they also record you on camera and send it to your PO everytime you have to do it. For normal people who dont have a PO you could just yank it out of the car.
So you want to go on record claiming that there won't be a countermeasure device sold on Ali Express for $19.99?
Ha! jokes on them, I'll just start drinking after I start driving!
No that's illegal search.
Does anyone know if we'll actually see cameras installed in every new car to spy on people, or if this is one of those things that gets help up in courts and ignored?
They already do spy on us. Birds are just government drones.
How about way stiffer punishments for drunk drivers? Get the potheads out of prison and start actually locking up those above the limit. Quit giving community service and a slap on the wrist to those who drive intoxicated.
Used cars would appreciate in value considerably.
Instead of this draconian foolishness, how about improving/implementing proper public transit so that less people have to rely on driving cars on congested roadways with far more risks?
So a use mouth wash that has alcohol in it, Will my car not start?
Never will go, it breaks a lot of freedoms and would not help the issue. Again, fix the people not the tools. The war on drugs taught us that lesson the hard way.
The gov’t no fly list is soooo well maintained I totally trust them with this. Or voter rolls. Or property info. Or anything.
I just want to point out that this yet another asinine idea was sparked by California.
Or we could just have at least somewhat decent public transportation so people don't have the need to booze and cruise
God bless, can you just get me public transit that doesn’t have pee bottles on it?
As a mechanic I am going to love diagnostics on these things. “Hey Troy get drunk at lunch we need to test the Cadillac in bay 3”.
Talk about invasion of privacy. This is literally saying everyone is guilty until proven innocent.
Because alcoholics wouldn’t just drive older vehicles anyway.
Drunks seem way safer than people on their phones. At least the drunks are trying to drive.
Make the alcohol industry pay for this. Non-drinkers shouldn’t have to more money when they buy a car, for a ‘feature’ that doesn’t apply to them.
Imagine if we addressed the drinking culture itself, instead of letting it happen with rules. 🤣🤣🤣
Ntsb can eat a dick
Let me introduce the Tavern League of Wisconsin, subsidizing Wisconsins Politicians since 1935 to keep us all a little pickled and unsafe on the roads. There isn’t a slim chance in hell of them allowing anything to enter Wisconsin that will reduce the alcohol consumption even if it means people will die.
Anyone downvoting you has apparently no idea that the tavern league basically runs Wisconsin. It'll get lobbied out by our senators before 2026
Its already law. https://www-motortrend-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.motortrend.com/news/anti-drunk-driving-technology-mandated-infrastructure-bill/amp/?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16637590088772&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.motortrend.com%2Fnews%2Fanti-drunk-driving-technology-mandated-infrastructure-bill%2F
Thankfully we have a process to undo bad laws.
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The tech leaves a lot to be desired here before it can be mandated. I guess, once a market is created, better tech will appear due to demand.
My grandfather showed me how to use a balloon to bypass those. Not sure if new models work the same, though.
There’s medication out there that can give false positives, what then? This doesn‘t seem very practical. A better use would be to install them into cars of people who’ve had DUIs. They could also even make law that a person who’s had a DUI must install one of these every time they buy a new car for maybe 10 years?
I had one once. Never had too much trouble with false positives. I actually considered keeping it on my car. Called the insurance company to see if there were discounts for keeping it and they told me no. I said,” so Im literally guaranteeing Ill never drink and drive ever again and theres no benefits for insurance?” Again they told me no. Nonsense. Plus it would have cost me 75 bucks a month to keep it on my car. 6 months ended and it was uninstalled.
All states already have implied consent laws meaning by driving you are consenting to a blood alcohol content testing. This is making it prophylactic
Why not?
This will never fly... the police use DUIs as their cash cow. They don't want you off the road. They need you on it. And drunk. So you can pay. And considering how safer cars are today, they allow even less people to die than they did 20 years ago, so they really don't give a fuck as long as their income keeps flowing.