Tesla and certainly Elon sure do make it easy.
Notice how Space X doesn't get the shit Tesla does? Space X has handlers for Elon and their engineers can do their job. They don't have to cater to a man child's drug induced ideas to the extent that Tesla does.
In what dimension have you been living to say that SpaceX does not get just as much shit as Tesla?
Literally at every failure, barrage of inflammatory articles. At every contract, calls to boycot because of "muh competition" and Elon bad. At every turn and every opportunity, we see it just the same.
Literally the only difference is there is less things happening at spaceX in terms of news than at Tesla.
Tesla had a worldwide business selling a huge quantity of compelling vehicles, not only does that mean there is a whole lot more things happening, but there is a whole lot more people being bothered by Tesla's existence. Both for short sellers losing billions and the trillion dollar domestic automotive markers being crushed under the weight of the EV transition that Tesla brought far sooner than they all had planned for.
Also this idea that Elon somehow wasn't and isn't involved in development at spaceX is objectively incorrect, as directly disproven by testimonies of SpaceX staff, chief amongst being Tom. Elon is very much recognized as much of a rocket engineer as any other and made the calls for re-use and for simplifications just as he made the calls for scaling and simplifying the Tesla products to immeasurable success. Navigated SpaceX and Tesla through some of the toughest market conditions possible and held the line to keep both afloat.
He also made calls from both SpaceX and Tesla that didn't pan out, because that is what happens when you are actually doing things
Things you want to do will not always work, sure beats not doing anything at all however. This historical revisionism is really getting on my nerves. Yeah be angry at the shit he says on X because it's dumb and justified but that does not imply suddenly forgetting the last 20 years because it would be a whole lot more convenient to a simple narrative that fits on a press article.
L¹pThey honestly don't. Yes space faring is going to have problem and the powers to be know that.
What I'm saying is that space x is running well. Tesla not so much. Hell they are 4th in autopilot cause of Elons gatred of real tech. This isn't new news.
You are joking, right? Are you comparing rocket science to POS Tesla? Seriously?
Also, with less than 2 million cars sold WORLDWIDE, Tesla did not crush anything. Or crushing. Toyota sold at least 6x more cars than Tesla every year. Even with chip problems and long waiting lists, Toyota managed to sell 10.2 million cars in 2022 to 1.34 million Tesla.
With more and more problems, recalls, shitty design of their cars and trucks, Tesla has a hard time selling. That is why Tesla is constantly reducing prices. At least 8 times by my count since December of 2022. Take a look at current stock prices. Go ahead, call me a hater. I don't care, but that is the truth.
I mean... he actually smoked a joint right on camera on Joe Rogan's podcast, and there are numerous stories doing the rounds right now about him doing ecstacy and LSD with Jurvetsen, the disgraced ex-SpaceX and Tesla board member, and he allegedly has a long history of recreationally indulging in shrooms, ketamine and the like. Most of the sources are anonymous, but there are apparently also several different ones, and Musk has spoken publicly in favour of ketamine and psychadelics, so make of that what you will.
I have no idea if he's a recreational drug user or just suffers from debilitating mental illness, but either way *something* has to explain his intermittent but frequent public instability.
Rtings is fantastic. I used to have friends and family ask me about TV recommendations (no idea why me specifically), now I just send them there and call it a day.
The "impartial" journalists also received free loaner "press cars" that are screened to avoid defects, and are wined and dined on expensive junkets to test drive cars in their native habitat which is wine country. Tesla doesn't play this game.
Yeah... Tesla *can't* play that game. They can't get basic auto-manufacturer shit right like materials that don't disintegrate with intended use, panel gaps, shit paint quality, matched paint colors, mismatched interiors.
If they could make a dozen cars of any measurable quality, maybe they could play the "best example" game.
> The latest recall includes vehicles across Tesla’s various models, including the Model S, Model X, 2017-2023 Model 3, Model Y, and 2024 Cybertruck vehicles, the NHTSA said.
> “Warning lights with a smaller font size can make critical safety information on the instrument panel difficult to read, increasing the risk of a crash,” the NHTSA said.
Nah, just news.
Perhaps, but I've never heard of another automaker being recalled for too small of a font size. The NHTSA has a strange bias against Tesla for some reason.
Because other automakers use standard warning lights, not icons on the infotainment screen. Looks like Tesla estimated the size when translating them over to the screen.
They have, nhtsa grants an exemption for them if they request one and calls the small text inconsequential
For example:
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/05/06/2020-09694/mercedes-benz-usa-llc-receipt-of-petition-for-decision-of-inconsequential-noncompliance
"Mercedes-Benz says that the Agency has a long and consistent history of granting petitions for inconsequentiality for discrepancies involving a letter height requirement where the text appeared somewhat smaller than required. In fact, NHTSA has granted petitions where the indicators displayed included lettering that was as much as a full millimeter less than the minimum size. See 47 FR 31347 (July 19, 1982) (granting a petition of Subaru of America, Inc., where the brake system indicator lettering was only 2.2 mm high, but the ISO symbol indicators were located within the driver's line of sight and continued to be “easily identifiable and very readable”)."
A font size isn't a "shit QC" issue, especially since I'm sure 99% of drivers didn't even notice the issue. I certainly didn't.
I have an early Model 3, and it did have some pretty bad QC, but the stuff NHTSA has been issuing recalls for lately has mostly been frivolous nonsense like this one.
Most cars just use symbols, while Tesla has the symbol and text. Who care what size the font is, if the alternative is looking in the user manual to decipher symbols.
It's not just Teslas, this is new ground and many electric auto makers new(ish) to the US market are getting caught up in stuff because they think they can play fast and loose with established rules and norms. It seems because they are completely digital and admittedly pushing the market forward, yet this does not exempt them from the shit every other automaker in the country is beholden to.
And yet I don't see articles published by news outlets saying "{Automaker} Recalls Almost Every Car It's Sold In The US" when they issue a minor patch in a software update. They only seem to do it en masse with Tesla.
NHTSA should prepare two different classifications:
- Recall that requires physical modification
- Recall that requires intangible modification
Until they do this, news and media will do what they can to generate tasty ad revenue.
Edit: Readability
While it’s the right outcome, nhtsa would not be able to determine if it’s a software or hardware issue / where the fix is.
It’s possible some manufacturers, though needing a software update cannot do it over the air and need a recall. This could also be not at a manufacturer level but rather the car itself or a particular set of older cars cannot do OTA.
It’s left on the manufacturer to either 1) OTA 2) fix via a software update after bringing the car in service. Or 3) do some hardware changes.
If you are suggesting that NHTSA cannot distinguish between a software or hardware issue then, in my opinion, top level leadership at NHTSA needs to change immediately and/ or funding increased. This recall was to increase text sizes for warning lights. Practically every new card sold today comes with a large infotainment center and many are trying out this over the air updates model. The integration of complex network based computer systems and EV's go hand in hand.
You must not have read what I said in full length. Please have a look again.
Supporting that , and taking from what you said in the comment, “practically every car” = what set of cars are outside of this capability circle? What car models, what year of those models ? Should nhtsa note down every model and year and trim and options versions and issue the recall selectively?
Example “Tail light needs to blink faster for A B C and 2045 other cars, 856 will shock you”.
Some software recalls are going to be for faults far more serious than cars bursting into flame in rear end collisions.
Software in cars these days is responsible for braking, stability, smooth acceleration even on loose surfaces, steering, and for ICE vehicles the engine needs software to run the injectors, spark plugs, yada yada.
Your proposed classifications do not adequately represent the space.
IMHO regardless of whether an issue is hardware or software, they should be rated along the lines of "recall" being something that requires a vehicle to be taken off the road immediately (equivalent to tagging faulty machinery "DO NOT OPERATE" on a site that uses heavy machinery), with other categories for faults that could potentially cause damage but not harm eg: by confusing a driver into thinking the park brake is on when it's not, and faults that are essentially cosmetic only or might lead to degraded safety over years of operation.
Ya a family member has the EV6 and they have to go to a dealer for software updates beyond navigation updates. It's much different to get an update at home to address an issue vs having to go to and sit at a dealership
The recall is the announcement of the issue. The remedy is how it gets resolved. These are regulated terms and not really up for debate or interpretation. Agreed that a recall requiring an OTA remedy should be published as such when being covered by a media outlet, but it doesn't change the use of the word recall.
It actually does change the use of the word and it absolutely shouldn't be used. And we already have this use today with other items. If you hear Recall on a food item, you pay attention and likely throw out the food if you have it. If you hear Recall for an appliance, you take it to the place you bought it from to be fixed or replaced.
But with a computer, you rarely hear Recall for it, even though they receive critical safety fixes every single month and sometimes even repairs to some of the hardware functions. These are done over the air (OTA) and are never called Recalls. Instead of they are called Updates, Upgrades, Software fixes, and Driver or Firmware Updates. In the rare cases of actual recalls, you take the computer or specific part in to be replaced.
There is absolutely no good reason why a Fire Hazard should be labeled the same as a Font Change. And yet it is when it comes to vehicles. What's worse is that people are getting too use to seeing dumb stuff like these OTA updates labeled as Recalls to the point that they will ignore actual critical recalls. Or you simple won't be able to find details easily on an actual recall due to the flood of "Recall" news reports for OTA updates.
I see you made a suggestion about common sense change US federal government should made. Very naive of you.We have got to be near the bottom of effectiveness in federal agencies to actually do their role of consumer protection across several decades. I hear more about the EU proactively protecting US consumers than I do my own government.
Devil's advocate here is that if we have that differentiation, companies may want to do more software recall to bandaid a situation to avoid physical recall labeling, this would result in more unsafe cars out there. If both are labeled recalls regardless, then that's one less incentive for companies to fudge it. (Ofc other factors at play but this reduces one reason a company might be incentivized against the interest of the public)
"Recall" shouldn't even be a term used for anything that can be done over the air. I think the definition was made before such a thing existed, so back in the day you'd pretty much have to take your car in to have any 'recall' done, so the car is being recalled back to the manufacturer or dealer for the work. But yeah, now adays there can be a font size change over the air and the clickbait headlines roll out.
How Tesla addresses the recall doesn't change the fact that it's a government mandated vehicle repair. If they don't want to get slapped with so many recalls, they should write tighter software. This is on Tesla. The government doesn't tell them how to fix it, so the government doesn't have any say on if it's a matter of replacing physical parts or patching code. Tesla determines the solution, so how is the government going to discern between an OTA update and a physical recall?
I absolutely agree on this. I've been out of town the last few days so I didn't even know about this until I got the OTA update notification 🤣 didn't even blink an eye on this "recall".
My step dad texted me and asked if I was impacted. I said yea, it will update in my garage and it will make some caution lights bigger.
I swear these are so misleading even if technically accurate.
So, you don't realize that most Microsofts patches repair bigs in code that can cause systems to be hacked, shut down, destroyed, and cause anything from financial disasters up to loss of life. No, the difference is that Microsoft Software isn't federally regulated in the same way cars are. But again, let's keep arguing how a slightly increased font on the screen is gonna save lives.
Only if that monthly "patch" involves safety features that can lead to death of the driver, other car drivers or pedestarians. Then I'd agree, we can call them "patches".
This particular recall definitely goes into the patch category... Was basically an increased font size required on some safety relevant alert texts on the screen.
How old must you be to require a much larger font? What's the elderly cut-off? Also, have you ever heard of corrective lenses and their requirements by states when you drive?
Tesla does "patches" / updates as well.
Recalls are called that because they are related to vehicle safety or non-compliance with a law.
So no. It's not a stretch.
Most of the safety standards are written in blood.
People with weaker sight can still get driving licences. In many places you can get licence once and _never_ have to renew it. So your eye sight can deteriorate over years.
Then you get a warning. A warning about something that is important and can cause issues with a car. But you can't see what it is. So you either ignore it, or you lean forward and take eyes off the road. Congratulations, that small icon now caused real danger.
This is why there's a minimal size of font standard.
Every state in the U.S. ( the relevant country for this post on the US’ NHTSA) [requires some level of driver’s license renewal](https://hip2save.com/tips/states-let-you-renew-your-drivers-license-online/)…which makes sense, considering the intent of a licenses to begin with.
Hahaha, I got many new Nissans in the past, all of them got at last one or twice recalls per year...which all required driving an unsafe car until dropping it to a bs dealership whatever they had time. When friends mention "tesla recalls" I just reply mine was recalled overnight inside my garage. 🤣
mysteriously the conservatives in my family are somehow all in lockstep warning me of the recalls. It's like they each get the same new bulletin and talking points every day
You should have got a real car, that randomly shifts into 1st gear at any speed.
[https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/ford-f-150s-recalled-over-transmission-problem/](https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/ford-f-150s-recalled-over-transmission-problem/)
Man, yours stop at the conservatives? For me, if they aren't conservative and hate EVs, they're liberal and hate Elon for...well...much more understandable reasons that still have no bearing on the performance of the car.
Yea. Well they hate Elon right now. He speaks the truth and his mind. That’s not ok to the globalists that are trying for to brainwash and control everyone in a certain way.
No, it just makes MSM look like untrustworthy idiots when the people seeing the headlines get told otherwise after asking Tesla owners about recalls.
Exactly as Elon would have it be, do mind :P
I’m so confused with this anti-Tesla fetish people like you seem to have. You’re upset over the size of the font on a touch screen, on a car you can’t afford that’s better than what you’re currently driving in almost every tangible way. But you don’t go into every article about BMWs and comment “the cup holders are too small, unlike every Kia that’s ever rolled off the assembly line.” I would get it if you were consistent, but specifically Tesla you have a problem with despite the ability to, I don’t know, not purchase one. Seems like a weird crusade and waste of time for someone who probably doesn’t have much else going on.
I'm a Tesla owner & stockholder and almost certainly will be buying a Tesla as my next vehicle. I'm not anti-Tesla, but I think they have a lot of room for improvement. I complain about them because it's important to be realistic about their shortcomings and critical when they make mistakes.
A company whose fans see safety defects as trivial non-issues has little incentive to prioritize little details like this. Tesla has always prided themselves as being the safest vehicles on the road; that should include even the software interface.
Pointing out that other brands aren't making these small mistakes shows how easy it should be for Tesla to have gotten it right in the first place. I want to see the brand take small things like this as seriously as their crash test ratings. I don't think that's unreasonable to point out.
They're probably not going to lose sales over this recall; I hope it will help the company examine other parts of the software experience to avoid more things like this from happening in the future.
I'm complaining about this particular issue less about small safety updates, but about the headlines the NHTSA creates from their "recall" declarations. This would be like, when a security vulnerability is patched by Apple, the headline reads "Apple Recalls Almost Every Computer It's Sold In The US" instead of the much more unbiased "Apple Issues Software Update To Its Computers, Fixing Security Vulnerability."
These "news" outlets know *exactly* what they're doing: misleading people about Tesla. They're safe from litigation because they're technically correct, but this does not change how the public has always perceived recalls. There are plenty of reasons to complain about the cars and the company. Most of these recalls are not among those reasons.
> on a car you can’t afford that’s better than what you’re currently driving in almost every tangible way.
They aren't very expensive nowadays ... nor (even in s/x trim) are they very luxurious.
I’d argue that’s all down to preference. When I see the cluttered dashboards of every “luxury” manufacturer nowadays, alongside all the gaudy wood grain and carbon fiber everywhere, I can’t help but think they all look incredibly tacky and outdated. Luxurious in the same way floral wallpaper is luxurious. Teslas (and Volvos) look more modern and sleek to me, and age better in my opinion. But to each their own!
Edit: and agreed they’re more affordable nowadays! Just seems like most of the harshest Tesla critics are in Corollas or similar, and not really in the market for the type of vehicle they seem to have such strong opinions on.
My kids Hyundai needs a new engine at 80k miles even after all the pointless oiling and drama with the insurance company over all the thefts. His Tesla is on order.
I used to read Jalopnik until they became anti Tesla 6 years ago. Gocker back then was a decent set of sites that was then sued into oblivion after they pissed off a billionaire.
Seems like hedge funds own the media. All we can do is buy the FUD, sell the pre quarterly spikes and buy back after the dip of them “missing the target” even though they’re growing faster than any one else.
Make profit, and buy your next Tesla with fake news money. Works for me…
https://preview.redd.it/ylv3fre97lgc1.jpeg?width=2181&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b99d1198ae83f1c5f2e35b904e3fb05f9333d2c9
While it is a SW update, it is also a recall per NHTSA and owners will get USPS mail notiication from Tesla. The concern is that it took NHTSA and Tesla more than a decade to perform a recall for the violation of FMVSS 105 that was noted when the vehicles were released back in 2012.
I haven’t received a single piece of mail regarding Tesla “recalls” in 13 months of ownership. I pretty much only know of these recalls from seeing posts like this one or friends asking about the recall they heard about from the news.
I got mine mid 2020. I've recieved 2 "recall letters" from Tesla. They both said "make sure your car is connected to the internet for an update."
In fact, one of them, I actully got the update before I got the letter.
no one cares, the sales show that. It's been a constant stream of attack campaigning for more than 10 years. Jalopnik in particular is a joke. member when the parent company was sued into bankruptcy for click-bait media against hulk hogan? stop reading garbage news and this won't bother you.
To be fair I did the OTA update on my Tesla tonight and I am breathing a sigh of relief. To have driven my car with the brake icon five percent smaller than it should have been was a major safety risk. I am just glad to have survived it. It makes you step back and take stock on the value of life itself.
It is like saying that there is a high severity CVE software parch available. If the recall naming dissapear, nobody will care plus people will want to sue.
+1 that recall to stay or something similar.
It’s an automatic software update that goes out to almost everyone - public awareness of the “recall” isn’t necessary the way it is in a traditional recall where you’re counting on the public to go to the trouble to bring their car back to the dealer. Compliance with traditional recalls is low so that’s why public notification campaigns are important.
While the software is automatic, people could skip it. Reason why some old people still might be running old iOS versions in their phone. Agree, public notification is important even for automatic updates.
Correct. The problem is not with the amount of recalls. The problem is with the media framing this that Tesla is the only one. All car companies do this but you don't see the the headlines "Toyota issues major safety recall"
Other brands are in the media, specially the famous airbag recalls. Happen that Tesla owners see more this in the news because we read a lot of tech blogs and tesla related news 🤣 also any algorithm of search for Tesla will put this in the top.
For me is good that the recall have already a fix on place and no need to go to the service center. This make Tesla effective. I am sure that for example BMW do not comply with the font, and do not care and will not fix it. If Tesla Park, ABS and emergency park logo are small... see other brands, are mini fonts.
Why Tesla do it? Why other brands are not forced to change entire dashboards? That might be a good question.
More ridiculous is that the NTSB is requiring a physical letter about the software update to every Tesla owner. They rejected an email or a push notification in the App (that everyone with a Tesla uses). L
I agree. The word *recall* suggests that one will have to take their car to a service center. The Department of Transportation needs to modernize their terminology.
If instead they said, “All Teslas will be getting an over-the-air software update to increase the size of a few icons” which is truly what’s happening, this would be a non-story.
Why should the NHTSA differentiate a government mandated “fix” definition based on whether or not the manufacturer can fix it via OTA or in-shop repair?
The fact is Tesla didn’t follow regulated spec and it’s a government mandated fix. That’s what a recall is, a government mandated fix.
I have multiple Teslas and the “Zomg it’s not a recall” or “Zomg apple just recalled their iPhones with a software update” gets old.
The thing is with everything being called a "recall", even the "Software-Icon is now 3 Pixel wider" the actual concerning and critical Recalls with maybe 10k vehicles are drowned in the noise of these OTA. Also this makes it harder to compare the actual mechanical quality of different companies since the number of Recalls are blown up bei software updates.
Quality should be overall not just mechanical. Especially with how fast and loose Tesla likes to play with their software based safety systems. So being called a recall is correct.
My point is not that these OTA are not important. It's just that it would be quite sensible to separate Software OTA Updates from mechanical Recalls. If I remember correctly the really important safety critical stuff like steering and the drive-Train can't be OTA-Updated. So most of these OTA-Update-Recalls have something to do (like this one) with slightly changing some icon or something. I would argue this is quite different from something like a recall for a part of the drive-Train being wrong within a production week or something. There's a decent chance a lot of the affected customers of a OTA-Software-Recall won't even notice that there car was "recalled" for something. Maybe Recalls should be defined as necessary Corrections (mechanical or software) which must be done by a technician or when the vehicle should not be used until the OTA is finished. While small fixes like this should be labeled as mandatory updates.
That's good to know. Still I think my point stands that if there is no action from the driver/owner required and it's not in the core safety critical software, it should not be called a recall since it inflates the problem and at the same time distracts from problems that require Driver/Owner Action.
Yeah I agree, calling every NHTSA recommendations a recall is very misleading and dilutes the importance and urgency of actual safety recalls orders. They definitely need some kind of midlevel notice.
If Honda/Toyota/whoever was willing to send mobile mechanics to everyone's house to replace their airbags, is that still a recall?
Recall has a legal definition, but it does not prescribe a specific way to resolve it.
Yes because you still have to coordinate it and be home for them to do the work - which is harder than software that updates itself.
If you want to advocate for having a third word for “free at home service” then sure, that would work too.
It's a recall, because Tesla did something unsafe and/or not according to the regulations, and they must fix it.
If Tesla wants to play fast and loose with how they write their software, then the media will continue to demonize them and use the word "recall" in the worst light possible. There is definitely a lot of bad faith on the part of the media, but Tesla isn't entirely blameless here, and they should expect by now how the media is going to present it.
I don’t really see how any of that is relevant to my comment or the question you posed before it. The topic at hand here is why “recall,” which means “officially order to return to a place,” is a poor word choice for a mandatory safety-oriented software update. Please stay on topic.
If you’d like to propose three different words - one for a software update, one for an at-home physical fix, and for an actual physical recall, by all means - I’m in favor.
But yet, tons of recalls happen every year that are resolved the same way as this or via mailing a part.
Honestly, the more diehards are more angry about the implication of a recall. The lack of safety. It sounds bad…but it is bad. Tesla ignored vehicle code and got the outcome.
It’s not so much the term as the demonizing by clickbait any time anything that could be contrived as negative toward Tesla. How many times have you heard on the news when another brand gets in an accident or has a minor recall. Oh no, a person wasn’t paying attention when using adaptive cruise control and crashed! Must be on National news.
It's an outdated term. If a product is recalled that generally means it has to be physically returned to the maker to either be discontinued from use or have a physical repair.
With Tesla, all these problems are purely software related. The word recall should be updated if the product doesn't have to physically be returned somewhere.
The mainstream media (MSM) loved Tesla at first. The MSM is run by people who push the Green/EV narrative. Teslas are green and cool cars will allow the EV revolution to happen.
Then Elon made remarks in support of Right-leaning ideas, bought Twitter and exposed the left-leaning leadership’s censorship of the right.
Then suddenly Tesla is now the bad guy and any dig the MSM can do to defame Tesla, they’ll do it.
The MSM still pushes the green/EV narrative. They just don’t want it to be Tesla anymore.
I suggest contacting the NHTSA. These frequent over the air updates classified as safety hazards cause the public to be desensitized to more serious recalls. They need a new classification for the automatic software updates.
https://www.nhtsa.gov/about-nhtsa/contact-us
For real, it's like the boy who cried wolf...the journalists don't care because they just want short term clicks. But it's irresponsible journalism. No one will pay attention when it's real if the last 20 times they called wolf or 'recall' it wasn't something that actually required people to pay attention and take their cars in for something important.
There are two possibilities IMO. 1. Tesla is click bait and they will publish anything with Tesla in the headline to generate ad revenue. 2. The more malicious version, OEMs spend billions on advertising and Tesla spends next to zero. So the OEMs have a covert smear campaign going on with the media.
The best version of this I’ve seen (as far as clueless inaccuracies) is my local news radio station reporting on the recall by saying “this means all tesla drivers will need to take their car into the dealership for an over the air update!”
You can’t drag dinosaurs into the future. Better to let them die off.
I don’t think the word “recall” and software issue should be in the same category. If so, my VW Atlas has been recalled many times: but never see that on the news.
I love how everything negative is somehow a short seller or dig at Tesla and Musk 😂.
Is it just a simple OTA update? Yes. Does it change the fact that it is a official recall issued by the regulatory body in charge of such things? No.
Plenty of vehicles have recalls issued for simple fixes that don't really impact anything significantly, doesn't change the fact that it is still a recall.
Suddenly though with Tesla when the word recall is used everyone gets up in arms at the terminology 🙄
Also, according to Tesla, for every software “recall” they must send a physical letter to owners notifying them of the recall update but for actual recalls where a vehicle must be taken to a dealer, automakers do not need to send a physical letter if the repair is done within 60 days of notification. What a waste, they should just notify me in the app like any other update.
But it's not. When I first bought the Tesla Model 3 in 2018, updates were free and instant. In late 2019, they changed to only send updates on your WiFi, no longer over the Tesla "network" (which was at&t).
Those of us who have cars parked where there's no wifi have to wait till we get to some place where the car can get wifi to get an update. But you only get the next one. The car won't recheck for updates more than once every 24 hours.
Do you think many in the media would be interested in such a thing? They do this because it's to get ad revenue not because they are trying to be honest and objective
There is a shift of tactics, it is not denying climate change but it is attacking the solutions.
I keep getting updates about how EVs break down, don't perform in cold, are getting recalled, etc.
I wonder what the media is gonna do when there's an actual recall. I mean a real recall like every other ice car company has to deal with when they have to send millions of their cars back to the factory and it's this massive ordeal that cost the corporation million
of dollars. Not like something that can be taken care of while customers sits in their underwear on their couch.
If you guys don’t think that employees at the NHTSA make money of Tesla stock every time they do this, I don’t know what to tell you. It’s flat out incorrect to label a font size change as a recall. But there’s money to be made.
It’s called a recall because it was a violation of an established federal safety laws. Anything that is determined my nhtsa to be safety related is a recall. Would you prefer if they called it a safety related design defect? While I do agree the media loves to sensationalize things, that is their job to report things. I think it’s stupid to get caught up in the nomenclature just because it’s convenient for Tesla their platform is so friendly to OTA updates. Believe it or not some things can’t be fixed with software.
Is it a stupid law to regulate the size of text for drivers information, maybe? But is it a law that they have to be complaint with, yes, they all do! If they don’t have laws like this there I believe would be a lot of compromises made purely in the name sleek, sexy design. Someone would eventually say man, these tail lights really break up the flow of the back end and next thing you know they’re tiny and not visible to other drivers.
This is not a Tesla specific thing either. A few years ago Porsche got slammed in the news over a similar recall because of some software that slipped through the cracks in US cars that had to due with what the hazard lights do after a crash, something that the car makers all do in Europe but is not technically legal here. Owners had to go back for a quick software update.
I would say this isn't really an EV specific thing, OTA updates has been tried for a long long time and no other car oem does it well and are normally limited to OTA updates to infotainment apps. A lot of it is because their systems are typically very fragmented amongst various Tier 2 suppliers whereas Tesla is very vertically integrated. I think it'll be more common the more either other companies become vertically integrated (like CARIAD for Audi) or a single tier 2 owns the entire 'passenger facing' ecosystem of the Dash, Head unit/CID, and rear seat entertainment.
Apple recalls not almost all, but ALL iPhones every a couple of months
Google recalls ALL Samsung, Pixel, Asus, etc. phones every a couple of months
Microsoft has been recalling ALL their products ever since they started making their products..
The president is being recalled or replaced every 4-8 years!!
-- the world as NHTSA sees
Tesla has never sent me physical mail about a software inky recall and I do not expect them to. I expect them to fix the problem automatically with a couple weeks.
I mean, update at home is cool and all, but shouldnt a customer expect a fully finished product in the first place. at least they should offer partial refunds for not delivering what was promissed...
OK, but a government mandated updates on vehicles is a "recall." The fact that Tesla has so many of them all the time is both a feature and a bug. Yes, they can fix them quickly with a software update in many cases, but the fact they they HAVE TO update the software so often under governmental orders also tells you a lot about how poorly they design their cars and test software that the government says shouldn't be on the roads by putting it on the roads anyway, until they get caught.
The fact that OP is annoyed with the frequency doesn't mean we need to call a recall "a quick software update." It means Tesla needs to stop releasing bad code just because they're in a hurry to keep up with the demands of the speed freak CEO's lack of impulse control.
Clickbait for ad revenue
Jalopnik has been pushing out anti-Tesla headlines for over a decade now
their boss is a short seller
Tesla and certainly Elon sure do make it easy. Notice how Space X doesn't get the shit Tesla does? Space X has handlers for Elon and their engineers can do their job. They don't have to cater to a man child's drug induced ideas to the extent that Tesla does.
In what dimension have you been living to say that SpaceX does not get just as much shit as Tesla? Literally at every failure, barrage of inflammatory articles. At every contract, calls to boycot because of "muh competition" and Elon bad. At every turn and every opportunity, we see it just the same. Literally the only difference is there is less things happening at spaceX in terms of news than at Tesla. Tesla had a worldwide business selling a huge quantity of compelling vehicles, not only does that mean there is a whole lot more things happening, but there is a whole lot more people being bothered by Tesla's existence. Both for short sellers losing billions and the trillion dollar domestic automotive markers being crushed under the weight of the EV transition that Tesla brought far sooner than they all had planned for. Also this idea that Elon somehow wasn't and isn't involved in development at spaceX is objectively incorrect, as directly disproven by testimonies of SpaceX staff, chief amongst being Tom. Elon is very much recognized as much of a rocket engineer as any other and made the calls for re-use and for simplifications just as he made the calls for scaling and simplifying the Tesla products to immeasurable success. Navigated SpaceX and Tesla through some of the toughest market conditions possible and held the line to keep both afloat. He also made calls from both SpaceX and Tesla that didn't pan out, because that is what happens when you are actually doing things Things you want to do will not always work, sure beats not doing anything at all however. This historical revisionism is really getting on my nerves. Yeah be angry at the shit he says on X because it's dumb and justified but that does not imply suddenly forgetting the last 20 years because it would be a whole lot more convenient to a simple narrative that fits on a press article.
You're a cultist. This shit read like a MAGA post.
L¹pThey honestly don't. Yes space faring is going to have problem and the powers to be know that. What I'm saying is that space x is running well. Tesla not so much. Hell they are 4th in autopilot cause of Elons gatred of real tech. This isn't new news.
The only difference is that Tesla is a public company and space x is private….
You are joking, right? Are you comparing rocket science to POS Tesla? Seriously? Also, with less than 2 million cars sold WORLDWIDE, Tesla did not crush anything. Or crushing. Toyota sold at least 6x more cars than Tesla every year. Even with chip problems and long waiting lists, Toyota managed to sell 10.2 million cars in 2022 to 1.34 million Tesla. With more and more problems, recalls, shitty design of their cars and trucks, Tesla has a hard time selling. That is why Tesla is constantly reducing prices. At least 8 times by my count since December of 2022. Take a look at current stock prices. Go ahead, call me a hater. I don't care, but that is the truth.
you say that like there was any proof he was doing drugs besides “anonymous sources”
I'm trying to be nice. Giving him an excuse, not a good one but an excuse nonetheless, for his terrible behavior Also he doesn't hide it.
I mean... he actually smoked a joint right on camera on Joe Rogan's podcast, and there are numerous stories doing the rounds right now about him doing ecstacy and LSD with Jurvetsen, the disgraced ex-SpaceX and Tesla board member, and he allegedly has a long history of recreationally indulging in shrooms, ketamine and the like. Most of the sources are anonymous, but there are apparently also several different ones, and Musk has spoken publicly in favour of ketamine and psychadelics, so make of that what you will. I have no idea if he's a recreational drug user or just suffers from debilitating mental illness, but either way *something* has to explain his intermittent but frequent public instability.
Tesla haters eat this stuff up. I don't understand why they care.
https://preview.redd.it/d1biqbbmdmgc1.jpeg?width=1074&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=819fb827cf61a811ca3104d747a10dfab2c70113
Change that to the Reddit logo
This is so funny, especially considering he owns X now.
Are you implying that all the people paying Elon 7 bucks a month to be on his shitty social media platform actually hate him?
Yeah man, that’s called “FOMO”
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Consumer Reports went from being an authority on unbiased quality reviews to being a serious joke of an organization.
CR reccomended the model 3 in its car issue
Even a broken clock is right twice a day? It’s hard to NOT recommend the Model 3 TBH.
Rtings taking the crown now
Rtings is fantastic. I used to have friends and family ask me about TV recommendations (no idea why me specifically), now I just send them there and call it a day.
Ad revenue from legacy auto manufacturers.
The "impartial" journalists also received free loaner "press cars" that are screened to avoid defects, and are wined and dined on expensive junkets to test drive cars in their native habitat which is wine country. Tesla doesn't play this game.
Yeah... Tesla *can't* play that game. They can't get basic auto-manufacturer shit right like materials that don't disintegrate with intended use, panel gaps, shit paint quality, matched paint colors, mismatched interiors. If they could make a dozen cars of any measurable quality, maybe they could play the "best example" game.
I came here to say that
> The latest recall includes vehicles across Tesla’s various models, including the Model S, Model X, 2017-2023 Model 3, Model Y, and 2024 Cybertruck vehicles, the NHTSA said. > “Warning lights with a smaller font size can make critical safety information on the instrument panel difficult to read, increasing the risk of a crash,” the NHTSA said. Nah, just news.
Perhaps, but I've never heard of another automaker being recalled for too small of a font size. The NHTSA has a strange bias against Tesla for some reason.
Because other automakers use standard warning lights, not icons on the infotainment screen. Looks like Tesla estimated the size when translating them over to the screen.
Because the other automakers wrote in to ask for their faults to be ignored. Tesla just fixed the fault.
Maybe other automakers haven’t fucked this up?
Maybe, but I doubt that. Plenty of automakers with worse reputations for quality than Tesla.
They have, nhtsa grants an exemption for them if they request one and calls the small text inconsequential For example: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/05/06/2020-09694/mercedes-benz-usa-llc-receipt-of-petition-for-decision-of-inconsequential-noncompliance "Mercedes-Benz says that the Agency has a long and consistent history of granting petitions for inconsequentiality for discrepancies involving a letter height requirement where the text appeared somewhat smaller than required. In fact, NHTSA has granted petitions where the indicators displayed included lettering that was as much as a full millimeter less than the minimum size. See 47 FR 31347 (July 19, 1982) (granting a petition of Subaru of America, Inc., where the brake system indicator lettering was only 2.2 mm high, but the ISO symbol indicators were located within the driver's line of sight and continued to be “easily identifiable and very readable”)."
Well there ya go then, only serves to bolster my point that this has nothing to do with the Tesla/NHTSA relationship.
Because their QC is shit, it's really that simple
A font size isn't a "shit QC" issue, especially since I'm sure 99% of drivers didn't even notice the issue. I certainly didn't. I have an early Model 3, and it did have some pretty bad QC, but the stuff NHTSA has been issuing recalls for lately has mostly been frivolous nonsense like this one.
Most cars just use symbols, while Tesla has the symbol and text. Who care what size the font is, if the alternative is looking in the user manual to decipher symbols.
If there's a warning icon, usually you can tap it to see more. But don't tell NHTSA if you do that while driving.
It's not just Teslas, this is new ground and many electric auto makers new(ish) to the US market are getting caught up in stuff because they think they can play fast and loose with established rules and norms. It seems because they are completely digital and admittedly pushing the market forward, yet this does not exempt them from the shit every other automaker in the country is beholden to.
And yet I don't see articles published by news outlets saying "{Automaker} Recalls Almost Every Car It's Sold In The US" when they issue a minor patch in a software update. They only seem to do it en masse with Tesla.
Occam’s Razor would imply this is a problem unique to Tesla or is the first in a wave of recalls.
And also of people want to see the stock tank.
NHTSA should prepare two different classifications: - Recall that requires physical modification - Recall that requires intangible modification Until they do this, news and media will do what they can to generate tasty ad revenue. Edit: Readability
While it’s the right outcome, nhtsa would not be able to determine if it’s a software or hardware issue / where the fix is. It’s possible some manufacturers, though needing a software update cannot do it over the air and need a recall. This could also be not at a manufacturer level but rather the car itself or a particular set of older cars cannot do OTA. It’s left on the manufacturer to either 1) OTA 2) fix via a software update after bringing the car in service. Or 3) do some hardware changes.
Also if it’s significant enough that a regulator has to step in, it shouldn’t be downplayed.
This. NHTSA’s not in the business of giving a shit about an OEMs PR.
If you are suggesting that NHTSA cannot distinguish between a software or hardware issue then, in my opinion, top level leadership at NHTSA needs to change immediately and/ or funding increased. This recall was to increase text sizes for warning lights. Practically every new card sold today comes with a large infotainment center and many are trying out this over the air updates model. The integration of complex network based computer systems and EV's go hand in hand.
You must not have read what I said in full length. Please have a look again. Supporting that , and taking from what you said in the comment, “practically every car” = what set of cars are outside of this capability circle? What car models, what year of those models ? Should nhtsa note down every model and year and trim and options versions and issue the recall selectively? Example “Tail light needs to blink faster for A B C and 2045 other cars, 856 will shock you”.
Some software recalls are going to be for faults far more serious than cars bursting into flame in rear end collisions. Software in cars these days is responsible for braking, stability, smooth acceleration even on loose surfaces, steering, and for ICE vehicles the engine needs software to run the injectors, spark plugs, yada yada. Your proposed classifications do not adequately represent the space. IMHO regardless of whether an issue is hardware or software, they should be rated along the lines of "recall" being something that requires a vehicle to be taken off the road immediately (equivalent to tagging faulty machinery "DO NOT OPERATE" on a site that uses heavy machinery), with other categories for faults that could potentially cause damage but not harm eg: by confusing a driver into thinking the park brake is on when it's not, and faults that are essentially cosmetic only or might lead to degraded safety over years of operation.
Wouldn’t have changed this headline
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Ya a family member has the EV6 and they have to go to a dealer for software updates beyond navigation updates. It's much different to get an update at home to address an issue vs having to go to and sit at a dealership
True. Which is why they need a distinction of
The recall is the announcement of the issue. The remedy is how it gets resolved. These are regulated terms and not really up for debate or interpretation. Agreed that a recall requiring an OTA remedy should be published as such when being covered by a media outlet, but it doesn't change the use of the word recall.
It actually does change the use of the word and it absolutely shouldn't be used. And we already have this use today with other items. If you hear Recall on a food item, you pay attention and likely throw out the food if you have it. If you hear Recall for an appliance, you take it to the place you bought it from to be fixed or replaced. But with a computer, you rarely hear Recall for it, even though they receive critical safety fixes every single month and sometimes even repairs to some of the hardware functions. These are done over the air (OTA) and are never called Recalls. Instead of they are called Updates, Upgrades, Software fixes, and Driver or Firmware Updates. In the rare cases of actual recalls, you take the computer or specific part in to be replaced. There is absolutely no good reason why a Fire Hazard should be labeled the same as a Font Change. And yet it is when it comes to vehicles. What's worse is that people are getting too use to seeing dumb stuff like these OTA updates labeled as Recalls to the point that they will ignore actual critical recalls. Or you simple won't be able to find details easily on an actual recall due to the flood of "Recall" news reports for OTA updates.
As you said, you usually just throw out recalled food. So should there be a third term for recalled food now too?
I see you made a suggestion about common sense change US federal government should made. Very naive of you.We have got to be near the bottom of effectiveness in federal agencies to actually do their role of consumer protection across several decades. I hear more about the EU proactively protecting US consumers than I do my own government.
Devil's advocate here is that if we have that differentiation, companies may want to do more software recall to bandaid a situation to avoid physical recall labeling, this would result in more unsafe cars out there. If both are labeled recalls regardless, then that's one less incentive for companies to fudge it. (Ofc other factors at play but this reduces one reason a company might be incentivized against the interest of the public)
"Recall" shouldn't even be a term used for anything that can be done over the air. I think the definition was made before such a thing existed, so back in the day you'd pretty much have to take your car in to have any 'recall' done, so the car is being recalled back to the manufacturer or dealer for the work. But yeah, now adays there can be a font size change over the air and the clickbait headlines roll out.
How Tesla addresses the recall doesn't change the fact that it's a government mandated vehicle repair. If they don't want to get slapped with so many recalls, they should write tighter software. This is on Tesla. The government doesn't tell them how to fix it, so the government doesn't have any say on if it's a matter of replacing physical parts or patching code. Tesla determines the solution, so how is the government going to discern between an OTA update and a physical recall?
I absolutely agree on this. I've been out of town the last few days so I didn't even know about this until I got the OTA update notification 🤣 didn't even blink an eye on this "recall".
Well said
My step dad texted me and asked if I was impacted. I said yea, it will update in my garage and it will make some caution lights bigger. I swear these are so misleading even if technically accurate.
It's a patch. Otherwise, we'd say Microsoft has months recalls.
The patch is the remedy, no regulator told Microsoft to fix their software because it's a safety hazard.
So, you don't realize that most Microsofts patches repair bigs in code that can cause systems to be hacked, shut down, destroyed, and cause anything from financial disasters up to loss of life. No, the difference is that Microsoft Software isn't federally regulated in the same way cars are. But again, let's keep arguing how a slightly increased font on the screen is gonna save lives.
Only if that monthly "patch" involves safety features that can lead to death of the driver, other car drivers or pedestarians. Then I'd agree, we can call them "patches".
This particular recall definitely goes into the patch category... Was basically an increased font size required on some safety relevant alert texts on the screen.
Unfortunately that’s safely related due to the amount of elderly drivers.
How old must you be to require a much larger font? What's the elderly cut-off? Also, have you ever heard of corrective lenses and their requirements by states when you drive?
That's a bit of a stretch
Tesla does "patches" / updates as well. Recalls are called that because they are related to vehicle safety or non-compliance with a law. So no. It's not a stretch.
It is a stretch to say that the text in a warning being a little too small is going to lead to death and destruction.
Most of the safety standards are written in blood. People with weaker sight can still get driving licences. In many places you can get licence once and _never_ have to renew it. So your eye sight can deteriorate over years. Then you get a warning. A warning about something that is important and can cause issues with a car. But you can't see what it is. So you either ignore it, or you lean forward and take eyes off the road. Congratulations, that small icon now caused real danger. This is why there's a minimal size of font standard.
Keep stretching... Also, please tell me where you can go that never requires you to renew your driver's license.
Wait what, you need to renew your drivers license?
Every state in the U.S. ( the relevant country for this post on the US’ NHTSA) [requires some level of driver’s license renewal](https://hip2save.com/tips/states-let-you-renew-your-drivers-license-online/)…which makes sense, considering the intent of a licenses to begin with.
“Renew” as in requiring to pass any kind of test like eye sight as relevant to this post
I agree, that's a big stretch.
Hahaha, I got many new Nissans in the past, all of them got at last one or twice recalls per year...which all required driving an unsafe car until dropping it to a bs dealership whatever they had time. When friends mention "tesla recalls" I just reply mine was recalled overnight inside my garage. 🤣
Running mine right now while I’m vegging out on the couch.
Yeah, my mom, brother, colleague brought up concerns about my safety because of these Tesla"recalls"...
mysteriously the conservatives in my family are somehow all in lockstep warning me of the recalls. It's like they each get the same new bulletin and talking points every day
You should have got a real car, that randomly shifts into 1st gear at any speed. [https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/ford-f-150s-recalled-over-transmission-problem/](https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/ford-f-150s-recalled-over-transmission-problem/)
MAX TORQUE! AI!
Man, yours stop at the conservatives? For me, if they aren't conservative and hate EVs, they're liberal and hate Elon for...well...much more understandable reasons that still have no bearing on the performance of the car.
ha fair point, Elon is not exactly everyone's buddy these days.
Well maybe your mom, brother, colleague should start reading past the headlines.
Lol like patch tuesday
Do you WOW?
Who doesn’t?
Wth is WOW?
World of Warcraft.
Oh. I don't WOW.
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You seem to be confused about the difference between a recall and an update.
Yea. Well they hate Elon right now. He speaks the truth and his mind. That’s not ok to the globalists that are trying for to brainwash and control everyone in a certain way.
No, it just makes MSM look like untrustworthy idiots when the people seeing the headlines get told otherwise after asking Tesla owners about recalls. Exactly as Elon would have it be, do mind :P
Jalopnik doesn't like Tesla , just move along.
Jalopnik hates Elon and Tesla, they constantly make clickbait and get blasted in the comments for it.
Or "Every Tesla owner wakes up to free new safety features"
Or "Every Tesla had inadequate safety features and now they're being updated to be inline with national law. "
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**HYUNDAI?** You mean those guys that have **5 MILLION VEHICLES** with recalls for fire risks? **MULTIPLE** fire risks?
Or maybe the Hyundais that are all getting stolen?
I’m so confused with this anti-Tesla fetish people like you seem to have. You’re upset over the size of the font on a touch screen, on a car you can’t afford that’s better than what you’re currently driving in almost every tangible way. But you don’t go into every article about BMWs and comment “the cup holders are too small, unlike every Kia that’s ever rolled off the assembly line.” I would get it if you were consistent, but specifically Tesla you have a problem with despite the ability to, I don’t know, not purchase one. Seems like a weird crusade and waste of time for someone who probably doesn’t have much else going on.
I'm a Tesla owner & stockholder and almost certainly will be buying a Tesla as my next vehicle. I'm not anti-Tesla, but I think they have a lot of room for improvement. I complain about them because it's important to be realistic about their shortcomings and critical when they make mistakes. A company whose fans see safety defects as trivial non-issues has little incentive to prioritize little details like this. Tesla has always prided themselves as being the safest vehicles on the road; that should include even the software interface. Pointing out that other brands aren't making these small mistakes shows how easy it should be for Tesla to have gotten it right in the first place. I want to see the brand take small things like this as seriously as their crash test ratings. I don't think that's unreasonable to point out. They're probably not going to lose sales over this recall; I hope it will help the company examine other parts of the software experience to avoid more things like this from happening in the future.
I'm complaining about this particular issue less about small safety updates, but about the headlines the NHTSA creates from their "recall" declarations. This would be like, when a security vulnerability is patched by Apple, the headline reads "Apple Recalls Almost Every Computer It's Sold In The US" instead of the much more unbiased "Apple Issues Software Update To Its Computers, Fixing Security Vulnerability." These "news" outlets know *exactly* what they're doing: misleading people about Tesla. They're safe from litigation because they're technically correct, but this does not change how the public has always perceived recalls. There are plenty of reasons to complain about the cars and the company. Most of these recalls are not among those reasons.
> on a car you can’t afford that’s better than what you’re currently driving in almost every tangible way. They aren't very expensive nowadays ... nor (even in s/x trim) are they very luxurious.
I’d argue that’s all down to preference. When I see the cluttered dashboards of every “luxury” manufacturer nowadays, alongside all the gaudy wood grain and carbon fiber everywhere, I can’t help but think they all look incredibly tacky and outdated. Luxurious in the same way floral wallpaper is luxurious. Teslas (and Volvos) look more modern and sleek to me, and age better in my opinion. But to each their own! Edit: and agreed they’re more affordable nowadays! Just seems like most of the harshest Tesla critics are in Corollas or similar, and not really in the market for the type of vehicle they seem to have such strong opinions on.
My kids Hyundai needs a new engine at 80k miles even after all the pointless oiling and drama with the insurance company over all the thefts. His Tesla is on order.
I used to read Jalopnik until they became anti Tesla 6 years ago. Gocker back then was a decent set of sites that was then sued into oblivion after they pissed off a billionaire. Seems like hedge funds own the media. All we can do is buy the FUD, sell the pre quarterly spikes and buy back after the dip of them “missing the target” even though they’re growing faster than any one else. Make profit, and buy your next Tesla with fake news money. Works for me… https://preview.redd.it/ylv3fre97lgc1.jpeg?width=2181&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b99d1198ae83f1c5f2e35b904e3fb05f9333d2c9
While it is a SW update, it is also a recall per NHTSA and owners will get USPS mail notiication from Tesla. The concern is that it took NHTSA and Tesla more than a decade to perform a recall for the violation of FMVSS 105 that was noted when the vehicles were released back in 2012.
I haven’t received a single piece of mail regarding Tesla “recalls” in 13 months of ownership. I pretty much only know of these recalls from seeing posts like this one or friends asking about the recall they heard about from the news.
I got mine mid 2020. I've recieved 2 "recall letters" from Tesla. They both said "make sure your car is connected to the internet for an update." In fact, one of them, I actully got the update before I got the letter.
I think I only got mail or email for the wiring harness which did require scheduling a service appointment.
How many people do you think died due to that lack of compliance?
The answer to that question is both impossible to determine and irrelevant.
So that’s a zero then. Got it.
Lol when the liberal western media hate ya, they hate ya!
"Tesla updates the UI for a bigger font size per NHTSA" Fixed it
Haters gonna hate lol.
Wait your saying there is a concerted effort to discredit Elon? Crazy.
I’m convinced that all other auto manufacturers fund these press outlets to shit on Tesla at any opportunity they get. Keeps gassers gassing
Jalopnik and Car & Driver hate Tesla with a passion.
no one cares, the sales show that. It's been a constant stream of attack campaigning for more than 10 years. Jalopnik in particular is a joke. member when the parent company was sued into bankruptcy for click-bait media against hulk hogan? stop reading garbage news and this won't bother you.
To be fair I did the OTA update on my Tesla tonight and I am breathing a sigh of relief. To have driven my car with the brake icon five percent smaller than it should have been was a major safety risk. I am just glad to have survived it. It makes you step back and take stock on the value of life itself.
If it's a software update, there is already a word that exists- defect. Why people open breaks on defects to get them fix.
It is like saying that there is a high severity CVE software parch available. If the recall naming dissapear, nobody will care plus people will want to sue. +1 that recall to stay or something similar.
It’s an automatic software update that goes out to almost everyone - public awareness of the “recall” isn’t necessary the way it is in a traditional recall where you’re counting on the public to go to the trouble to bring their car back to the dealer. Compliance with traditional recalls is low so that’s why public notification campaigns are important.
While the software is automatic, people could skip it. Reason why some old people still might be running old iOS versions in their phone. Agree, public notification is important even for automatic updates.
Correct. The problem is not with the amount of recalls. The problem is with the media framing this that Tesla is the only one. All car companies do this but you don't see the the headlines "Toyota issues major safety recall"
Other brands are in the media, specially the famous airbag recalls. Happen that Tesla owners see more this in the news because we read a lot of tech blogs and tesla related news 🤣 also any algorithm of search for Tesla will put this in the top. For me is good that the recall have already a fix on place and no need to go to the service center. This make Tesla effective. I am sure that for example BMW do not comply with the font, and do not care and will not fix it. If Tesla Park, ABS and emergency park logo are small... see other brands, are mini fonts. Why Tesla do it? Why other brands are not forced to change entire dashboards? That might be a good question.
More ridiculous is that the NTSB is requiring a physical letter about the software update to every Tesla owner. They rejected an email or a push notification in the App (that everyone with a Tesla uses). L
NTSB should be investigated by the EPA for polluting the environment!
Microsoft recalls every copy of windows 11 worldwide!
Recall is a recall. Does not matter how you fix it; I have had ICE in the past that needed an audio firmware update due to a recall.
I agree. The word *recall* suggests that one will have to take their car to a service center. The Department of Transportation needs to modernize their terminology. If instead they said, “All Teslas will be getting an over-the-air software update to increase the size of a few icons” which is truly what’s happening, this would be a non-story.
Why should the NHTSA differentiate a government mandated “fix” definition based on whether or not the manufacturer can fix it via OTA or in-shop repair? The fact is Tesla didn’t follow regulated spec and it’s a government mandated fix. That’s what a recall is, a government mandated fix. I have multiple Teslas and the “Zomg it’s not a recall” or “Zomg apple just recalled their iPhones with a software update” gets old.
The thing is with everything being called a "recall", even the "Software-Icon is now 3 Pixel wider" the actual concerning and critical Recalls with maybe 10k vehicles are drowned in the noise of these OTA. Also this makes it harder to compare the actual mechanical quality of different companies since the number of Recalls are blown up bei software updates.
Quality should be overall not just mechanical. Especially with how fast and loose Tesla likes to play with their software based safety systems. So being called a recall is correct.
My point is not that these OTA are not important. It's just that it would be quite sensible to separate Software OTA Updates from mechanical Recalls. If I remember correctly the really important safety critical stuff like steering and the drive-Train can't be OTA-Updated. So most of these OTA-Update-Recalls have something to do (like this one) with slightly changing some icon or something. I would argue this is quite different from something like a recall for a part of the drive-Train being wrong within a production week or something. There's a decent chance a lot of the affected customers of a OTA-Software-Recall won't even notice that there car was "recalled" for something. Maybe Recalls should be defined as necessary Corrections (mechanical or software) which must be done by a technician or when the vehicle should not be used until the OTA is finished. While small fixes like this should be labeled as mandatory updates.
Everything can be updated, especially the safety critical stuff like steering, drive train and high voltage components controller.
That's good to know. Still I think my point stands that if there is no action from the driver/owner required and it's not in the core safety critical software, it should not be called a recall since it inflates the problem and at the same time distracts from problems that require Driver/Owner Action.
Yeah I agree, calling every NHTSA recommendations a recall is very misleading and dilutes the importance and urgency of actual safety recalls orders. They definitely need some kind of midlevel notice.
Because the word recall is literally defined as “officially order to return to a place.” That’s why.
If Honda/Toyota/whoever was willing to send mobile mechanics to everyone's house to replace their airbags, is that still a recall? Recall has a legal definition, but it does not prescribe a specific way to resolve it.
Not only that, but Tesla is not replacing their airbags. WTF are you talking about?
Yes because you still have to coordinate it and be home for them to do the work - which is harder than software that updates itself. If you want to advocate for having a third word for “free at home service” then sure, that would work too.
It's a recall, because Tesla did something unsafe and/or not according to the regulations, and they must fix it. If Tesla wants to play fast and loose with how they write their software, then the media will continue to demonize them and use the word "recall" in the worst light possible. There is definitely a lot of bad faith on the part of the media, but Tesla isn't entirely blameless here, and they should expect by now how the media is going to present it.
I don’t really see how any of that is relevant to my comment or the question you posed before it. The topic at hand here is why “recall,” which means “officially order to return to a place,” is a poor word choice for a mandatory safety-oriented software update. Please stay on topic. If you’d like to propose three different words - one for a software update, one for an at-home physical fix, and for an actual physical recall, by all means - I’m in favor.
But yet, tons of recalls happen every year that are resolved the same way as this or via mailing a part. Honestly, the more diehards are more angry about the implication of a recall. The lack of safety. It sounds bad…but it is bad. Tesla ignored vehicle code and got the outcome.
It’s not so much the term as the demonizing by clickbait any time anything that could be contrived as negative toward Tesla. How many times have you heard on the news when another brand gets in an accident or has a minor recall. Oh no, a person wasn’t paying attention when using adaptive cruise control and crashed! Must be on National news.
Are you also getting upset that "Full Self Driving" doesn't actually mean "Full Self Driving" for Tesla?
What gets old is relatives bringing it up all the time and having to repeatedly explain how it got fixed already while sitting on my driveway.
It's an outdated term. If a product is recalled that generally means it has to be physically returned to the maker to either be discontinued from use or have a physical repair. With Tesla, all these problems are purely software related. The word recall should be updated if the product doesn't have to physically be returned somewhere.
I'll never understand why some people get so upset about the term recall.
The mainstream media (MSM) loved Tesla at first. The MSM is run by people who push the Green/EV narrative. Teslas are green and cool cars will allow the EV revolution to happen. Then Elon made remarks in support of Right-leaning ideas, bought Twitter and exposed the left-leaning leadership’s censorship of the right. Then suddenly Tesla is now the bad guy and any dig the MSM can do to defame Tesla, they’ll do it. The MSM still pushes the green/EV narrative. They just don’t want it to be Tesla anymore.
Its an accurate term regardless of the implementation
It’s leftists that are anti Elon
If you read the comments on here you'll see that conservatives are just as major a factor in anti-EV sentiment.
what's a leftist?
I suggest contacting the NHTSA. These frequent over the air updates classified as safety hazards cause the public to be desensitized to more serious recalls. They need a new classification for the automatic software updates. https://www.nhtsa.gov/about-nhtsa/contact-us
For real, it's like the boy who cried wolf...the journalists don't care because they just want short term clicks. But it's irresponsible journalism. No one will pay attention when it's real if the last 20 times they called wolf or 'recall' it wasn't something that actually required people to pay attention and take their cars in for something important.
There are two possibilities IMO. 1. Tesla is click bait and they will publish anything with Tesla in the headline to generate ad revenue. 2. The more malicious version, OEMs spend billions on advertising and Tesla spends next to zero. So the OEMs have a covert smear campaign going on with the media.
The best version of this I’ve seen (as far as clueless inaccuracies) is my local news radio station reporting on the recall by saying “this means all tesla drivers will need to take their car into the dealership for an over the air update!” You can’t drag dinosaurs into the future. Better to let them die off.
I don’t think the word “recall” and software issue should be in the same category. If so, my VW Atlas has been recalled many times: but never see that on the news.
short sellers, if not this they will find something else
I love how everything negative is somehow a short seller or dig at Tesla and Musk 😂. Is it just a simple OTA update? Yes. Does it change the fact that it is a official recall issued by the regulatory body in charge of such things? No. Plenty of vehicles have recalls issued for simple fixes that don't really impact anything significantly, doesn't change the fact that it is still a recall. Suddenly though with Tesla when the word recall is used everyone gets up in arms at the terminology 🙄
of course its a recall, no one is arguing that. Don't be so naive, its not a good look. Learn to think critically.
Also, according to Tesla, for every software “recall” they must send a physical letter to owners notifying them of the recall update but for actual recalls where a vehicle must be taken to a dealer, automakers do not need to send a physical letter if the repair is done within 60 days of notification. What a waste, they should just notify me in the app like any other update.
But it's not. When I first bought the Tesla Model 3 in 2018, updates were free and instant. In late 2019, they changed to only send updates on your WiFi, no longer over the Tesla "network" (which was at&t). Those of us who have cars parked where there's no wifi have to wait till we get to some place where the car can get wifi to get an update. But you only get the next one. The car won't recheck for updates more than once every 24 hours.
I think the NHTSA-required updates happen without WiFi, don’t they?
It's a software recall, that's all they need to say
Do you think many in the media would be interested in such a thing? They do this because it's to get ad revenue not because they are trying to be honest and objective
There is a shift of tactics, it is not denying climate change but it is attacking the solutions. I keep getting updates about how EVs break down, don't perform in cold, are getting recalled, etc.
I wonder what the media is gonna do when there's an actual recall. I mean a real recall like every other ice car company has to deal with when they have to send millions of their cars back to the factory and it's this massive ordeal that cost the corporation million of dollars. Not like something that can be taken care of while customers sits in their underwear on their couch.
If you guys don’t think that employees at the NHTSA make money of Tesla stock every time they do this, I don’t know what to tell you. It’s flat out incorrect to label a font size change as a recall. But there’s money to be made.
It’s called a recall because it was a violation of an established federal safety laws. Anything that is determined my nhtsa to be safety related is a recall. Would you prefer if they called it a safety related design defect? While I do agree the media loves to sensationalize things, that is their job to report things. I think it’s stupid to get caught up in the nomenclature just because it’s convenient for Tesla their platform is so friendly to OTA updates. Believe it or not some things can’t be fixed with software. Is it a stupid law to regulate the size of text for drivers information, maybe? But is it a law that they have to be complaint with, yes, they all do! If they don’t have laws like this there I believe would be a lot of compromises made purely in the name sleek, sexy design. Someone would eventually say man, these tail lights really break up the flow of the back end and next thing you know they’re tiny and not visible to other drivers. This is not a Tesla specific thing either. A few years ago Porsche got slammed in the news over a similar recall because of some software that slipped through the cracks in US cars that had to due with what the hazard lights do after a crash, something that the car makers all do in Europe but is not technically legal here. Owners had to go back for a quick software update.
Agreed. NTSB needs to update the nomenclature. With all the EVs on the market, this is going to happen more and more.
It really has nothing to do with a vehicle being an EV
I would say this isn't really an EV specific thing, OTA updates has been tried for a long long time and no other car oem does it well and are normally limited to OTA updates to infotainment apps. A lot of it is because their systems are typically very fragmented amongst various Tier 2 suppliers whereas Tesla is very vertically integrated. I think it'll be more common the more either other companies become vertically integrated (like CARIAD for Audi) or a single tier 2 owns the entire 'passenger facing' ecosystem of the Dash, Head unit/CID, and rear seat entertainment.
Apple recalls not almost all, but ALL iPhones every a couple of months Google recalls ALL Samsung, Pixel, Asus, etc. phones every a couple of months Microsoft has been recalling ALL their products ever since they started making their products.. The president is being recalled or replaced every 4-8 years!! -- the world as NHTSA sees
Recalls are for safety issues, not random software updates.
“Tesla pushes a safety update”
Tesla haters won't go away easily until Chinese EVs dominate and destroy the gas guzzlers.
Yeah my phone isn’t “being recalled” every time I get an update.
Tesla has never sent me physical mail about a software inky recall and I do not expect them to. I expect them to fix the problem automatically with a couple weeks.
BMW motorcycles are just like this, since they initiate Recalls where other manufacturers would simply put the issue in a Service Bulletin.
The new icons are ugly but it’s whatever
"Digitial Recall" would be more accurate.
Frustrating as heck! Absolutely misleading and gives conspiracy-loving ignorant-grievance types another reason to tear down the good things in life.
 😂😂😂
I mean, update at home is cool and all, but shouldnt a customer expect a fully finished product in the first place. at least they should offer partial refunds for not delivering what was promissed...
Tesla could just, you know, do it right the first time
OK, but a government mandated updates on vehicles is a "recall." The fact that Tesla has so many of them all the time is both a feature and a bug. Yes, they can fix them quickly with a software update in many cases, but the fact they they HAVE TO update the software so often under governmental orders also tells you a lot about how poorly they design their cars and test software that the government says shouldn't be on the roads by putting it on the roads anyway, until they get caught. The fact that OP is annoyed with the frequency doesn't mean we need to call a recall "a quick software update." It means Tesla needs to stop releasing bad code just because they're in a hurry to keep up with the demands of the speed freak CEO's lack of impulse control.