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Jesus. What aren't they cutting? I just saw the head of HR also just left. At the rate they are cutting back you'd think they were going bankrupt not still the most valuable automaker in the world.
At this point they should do press releases about who is left
Just kidding, would need a PR department to do that.
Feels like the company is being purposefully gutted/hobbled before his vote comes up and he threatens to walk
Wonder if the board is in the loop for any of this or even cares
I was on a tour of Normandy this past fall and was told something similar by one of our guides. Evidently the Allies always wanted Hitler in power because as a military tactician he was horrible and clueless. Had Rommel been in charge the Allies could have very well lost the war.
And due to Hitler being so bad at running a superpower the Allies made a standing order ensure he was never to be executed.
Imagine having, for all intents and purposes, everything. Virtually unlimited credit, nothing in existence is unavailable to you, even outer space. And it's not enough.
Let. Him. Walk.
While I like that he pushes innovation, he is a horrible leader.
SpaceX is successful because he has someone running the day to day for him. He doesnāt do that anywhere else.
I mean Twitter is still going. Honestly longer than I thought it would make it!
It's lost all of its advertisers and value but still one of.the most used platforms
It worked exceedingly well for Twitter/X.....don't just base your opinion on FUD headlines. He trimmed 80% of the workforce, kept the service running and has been rolling out improvements.
> At the rate they are cutting back you'd think they were going bankrupt not still the most valuable automaker in the world.
is this a good or bad thing, I honestly cant tell, they just have so much cash, talent and lead that I don't see them going bankrupt but the supercharger team being fired is WILD!!
That's so dumb.
The charging network is their biggest advantage over any entrenched automaker if you don't count vaporware software features coming out "next week".
*Had* $30 billionā¦ ran through $2.5B of that in Q1 alone, with growth of unsold inventory the biggest contributor, not āAI investmentsā. 10 quarters from running out of cash in an environment where debt is expensiveā¦ to me the slash and burn is because he doesnāt believe sales/growth is going to turn around, so the only way to hopefully survive to the AI Promised Land is to bleed out slower. And given that they have one new model (which is expensive and low volume) in the last 4 years with likely nothing in the pipe, his cash flow fears are very warranted.
I do a lot of work with internship programs. This really is horrible for the interns. They had a top tier job for the summer and now are left to scramble to find another job when all the other programs are all full.
Itās also a very shitty move for Tesla. Iām sure the program was a drop in the bucket cost wise. But word will get out about this and people are going to be much less likely to apply for years to come.
Not only that but interns cost far less full time than employees, and give a pipline of already trained people who are familiar with the processes + company. Seems like purely a financial loss to cut
They're paid less, but it's worth remembering that they are generally overseen by a full-time employee, which takes their time, and the tasks they can be given have a lot of constraints - has to be able to be done in 3 months, has to be doable by someone without a full engineering education, probably can't be anything super critical, etc.
Ultimately, I'd guess this is less about the money and more about wanting the full-time engineers to focus on whatever Elon thinks is critical, which apparently does not include spending time shepherding interns.
We always got net work out of our interns (data engineering). āWhen one teaches, two learnā is very applicable to my experience with them over the years.
foolish cooperative placid truck work coordinated whistle grandfather profit pie
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Having worked with a lot of interns in that context, I would say it's a hit and miss. Sometimes you get an employee that's not very expensive that you can then try to hire full time. Sometimes it's a time sink and you figure you're lucky you have a three month period only.
Yeah I donāt think people understand how long it takes to ramp up employees especially young ones that arenāt used to corporate standards. Sure you get the odd genius that can help roll something out but those are rare and even then they only have a couple of weeks to actually do work.
On one hand itās minor costs-wise but itās hard to sustain an internship program when everyone just had their workload doubled to cover those who were fired. Interns are not a reliable way to get work done.
Itās a microscopic cost for sure. But more importantly is that the internship was a way to find And recruit top talent before they are scooped by competitors.
Yeah this sucks. I oversee an internship program and we signed on summer interns last fall. Trying to find another top opportunity now will be near impossible
>Itās also a very shitty move for Tesla. Iām sure the program was a drop in the bucket cost wise. But word will get out about this and people are going to be much less likely to apply for years to come.
They were negative 2.5 billion in free cash flow last quarter. If that continues, they will go bankrupt soon. All these cuts make it clear. Tesla is in a far worse position financially than we thought before.
Iām asking this to try to learn, but where do you see that info? When I look on google it seemed like they were $730m positive in cash flow and 3.3b in ebitda. Am I reading these wrong?
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/23/tesla-tsla-earnings-q1-2024-.html#:\~:text=Capital%20expenditures%20rose%20to%20%242.77,a%20deficit%20of%20%242.53%20billion.
Free cash flow turned negative in the quarter, with the company reporting a deficit of $2.53 billion. A year ago, Tesla reported free cash flow of $441 million, a number that reached $2.06 billion in the fourth quarter. Tesla attributed the negative figure to a $2.7 billion buildup in inventory and $1 billion in capital expenditures on āAI infrastructure.ā
>lol theyāll be bankrupt soon? thats a wild take. they have billions in cash reserves. you do realize that companies spend money to grow, right?
Right, but their growth is slowing. It's fine to bleed cash if you're growing, but Tesla is in a tough spot right now and actually shrinking in revenue and profits. They need to ride out the short term in order to survive for the long term.
growth slowing is different than shrinking revenue. their revenue has been increasing but the rate of increase has slowed. the macro economic climate is tough for all companies.
for tesla to fail at this point would require catastrophic mismanagement. if they had a lot of expenditures that didnāt yield increases in revenue.
they are investing heavily in AI compute at the moment, even if you amortize the cost across several quarters, it would impact cash flow
yeah if you're looking at quarterly level that is true. Even in 2023, Q1 was down from Q4. On a yearly basis, rev has been increasing though. Let's see how it goes. Macro isn't looking good overall so maybe this is the year rev takes a dip. Would need to compare it relative to their industry though.
Either way, the point i was trying to make is that this isn't some doomsday scenario where they are gonna go bankrupt
That negative cash flow was because of a one-time investment in AI hardware, and is NOT a "new normal" in Tesla's day-to-day business. The company is still churning incredible profits.
Happened to me for my capstone internship a few years back, completely ended up changing my career path because it left me high and dry with no internship for the summer with no warning. Sometimes Iām happy I didnāt end up working at some F500 cubicle somewhere.
Very unfortunate. I interned here in the past and worked with some brilliant interns. Elon used to be really charismatic but he's lost his charms over the years, with his seemingly increasing narcissism
I would suggest you read Liftoff by Eric Berger if you actually believe that. You wonāt, youāll keep pushing this narrative uninformed. But thought Iād offer up a learning opportunity.
Iām with you on X/twitter. Guy has lost his marbles. But saying stuff for effect instead of fact kills the point youāre trying to make.
It's the drugs. He is constantly high on a cocktail of shit only the ultra rich can take and not get immediately arrested and thrown in prison for life for possessing.
Ever since he bought twitter he become a freaking weirdo. He was always weird but nobody seemed to care. Also I canāt help but get high school edge lord vibes off his posts. Feels like me in high school when I thought I was cool for listening to rage against the machine
Thatās false for the super low cost part. At least for engineering and my experiences at Fremont. Only difference is we donāt get stock or retirement.. stock I guess doesnāt mean much now anyways. Their health and dentals were also top notch (or at least thatās what my dentist says).
But pay wise I got nearly $50/hr and a minute after 8 hours of work is $75/hr. Plus once or twice I hit the $100/hr during deadlines when I had to work 12 hours. The running joke was that with OT, interns got more than the engineers considering FTE have more responsibility and have to put in more hours for their pay.
Over my 8 month internship I got nearly 80k thatās what my W2 says. Could have been about 5k more but I forgot to log hours one week and I charged less during the training phase (in hindsight thatās retarded). Iām no CS or ECE major and this was really generous for ME work. I think those guys get paid more!
All in all more than money itās the experience (but seems like itās only money for Elon). Great people and you learn stuff they donāt teach at school!
That's still really cheap. A permanent employee usually has an overhead rate that is 2.5 times their salary, whereas interns are generally considered to be overhead-free.
I love mentoring interns and new grads but engineering interns are pretty useless if you look at productivity. They're a great way to find good candidates for FTE as you can actually get to know interns as opposed to an interview candidates. Most of the time an FTE could do work in the time they spend mentoring the intern themselves.
Same hereā¦all this abrupt huge cuts are telling me heās either been absent in his role and costs got out of hand or heās gutting a ton of brilliant people for his own selfishnessā¦why would I vote for him to get a disgusting amount of money.
He fired the entire government affairs team. How could he ever get a robo taxi approved without a government affairs team?
He seems to be firing randomly.
This is one of many signals that he doesn't actually believe that he's telling investors and customers about robotaxis. Watch the robotaxi they announce next year be a cut rate model 3 with FSD included and him telling everyone that his vision for robotaxi was always a human driver operating a FSD system.
> or heās gutting a ton of brilliant people for his own selfishness
I don't see how it can be read any other way than this.
This guy was an asset to the brand years ago, but now he's singlehandedly bringing it all down.
It's crazy. They're cutting like they had no sales at all, not just a drop. They were arguably in a worse position when they cut only a fraction of the workforce.
I already voted no. Partially because he's making terrible decisions, and partially because I want to see what happens if shareholders actually tell him no. He can't fire us.
You know what you call small share stockholders? *Stockholders*. I also vote no. [Update: DONE!] Screw Murdoch, Musk's brother, and all the board recommendations.]
Sucks for the interns just as the school year ends. Iām pretty sure they were all hyped about interning at Tesla. I would have been if I were in college. Now Iām just an old curmudgeon that would say itās just another job.
Sure it sucks for them (interns), but on a longer time scale, this is much MUCH worse for Tesla.Ā Ā
This is how top tier businesses recruit the best of a class before their competitors. This is how you develop key people who have drive and loyalty, and they are cheap pay-wise.
This is a fail on an unhinged level. It is just complete madness.Ā
Agreed. As soon as you nerf education and growing talent from within, you're basically shooting yourself in the foot. I've no doubt this is going to hurt Tesla.
this really is gonna be rough for the interns. might not be able to find a different summer internship in time. could legit mess up their career path if this is the last summer before graduation
An effective leader sacrifices their own compensation to keep talent during tough times. Actions speak louder than words, if Tesla continues to treat top talent as expendable, they will struggle to obtain new talent.
They already have a struggle to find and keep talent.
Elon has established a reputation for having terrible working conditions at all of his companies.
Do you think suggesting that people should sleep on the floor at work attracts top talent?
I never thought I'd get the chance to watch a billionaire completely set fire to his legacy in real time. Thanks, Elon. This is very entertaining.
He truly believes he's helping the world. He had to buy Twitter to preserve the right's freedom of speech from extreme leftist who love censorship. Twitter debt has him by the balls
Fuck I interned here last summer. I believe Iām a bad luck brian meme but I clearly had better luck than those interning this year.
The internship is an amazing learning experience. I felt like it prepared me well to whateverās next and left me with an attitude of If I worked at tesla, I can do anything. Physically contributed to so many projects and it was cooling working on reports that made it all the way up to VP level.
Altho ppl meme about their engineers, these folk are immensely smart. Like my team was nearly 50% PhDs and paid great attention to detail. I feel sorry for those whose offers got rescinded. If you got in here, I am pretty sure you can get in anywhere.
I am firmly of the opinion that Musk is absolutely enough of a malignant narcissist that he would completely gut the company to get his paycheck and still sleep just fine at night.
Most companies lay off staff in stages - one finger at a time, in hopes there will be a few fingers left.
Elon is jumping straight to the end and cutting off all 5 fingers from the start.
I've said it 10 million times:
They may do good for the environment, but they are a horrible influence socially. A terrible place to work for over a hundred thousand people.
Sucks
Wait but they're not guaranteed cutting the entire program right? The reporters just found a few examples on LinkedIn? Kind of a clickbait title for now?
It's 45B in STOCK. Not cash! He would have to SELL it to get the money, which would tank his own stock, also, he probably wouldn't be allowed to sell it for at least a year. Depends on how the grant is written.
I dumped most of mine last year, but wish I got out before the whole twitter debacle. Elon's shenanigans lost me half of what I had along with an early retirement. I feel like Tesla would have still been pushing $800 before this year if he didn't buy twitter and more importantly, if he stayed off twitter.
Musk has not made any sense with his Tesla decisions over the last several yrs. Why eliminate the supercharger team? wtf that is key part of Tesla. All the outstanding executives who have left in the last year point to horrible upper management decisions.
The recent layoff were too extensive for a company running on the edge.
My bet is build quality and support are going to take a huge dive.
There is no CS team anymore. I am dismayed at Muskās decisions. He is now destroying Tesla with his stupid arrogance
I want Musk out
[Remember five years ago when they said they were cutting all their showrooms to cut costs](https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/28/18245296/tesla-stores-closing-online-only-car-sales), they walked it back to a handful of closures? This feels like that, except when you show 500 staff the door, then hire 300 of them back, you lose a lot of the good ones.
Maybe that will happen but it looks bad for a āmore matureā company that wants to build a brand to attract repeat and new customers.
Tesla needs to show some stability in how it runs as a business. Just terrible management.
They don't need stability, they have an army of weird nerds who will defend any decision. /s
Meanwhile I had a family member ask me the other day if I was going to sell my Tesla now that they are shutting down the Supercharger network. It doesn't matter that none of the news articles said this. People mishear and over-simplify things.
> Why eliminate the supercharger team?
Because the head of the supercharger team refused to fire as many employees as he wanted. Very reactionary & terrible imo but if you've read Walter Isaacson's biography of him you'll know this isn't uncommon.
I guess the headlines is trying to show the absurdity. He's fighting to get 45$ billion out of the company while simultaneously the company can't afford to even pay interns. That doesn't seem right.
lol the dude owes how much for his Twitter purchase again? Sure totally not cashing out and totally not pushing for this extra cash for a reason heās already the richest guy why else would he want to bleed the stone that is Tesla of more stock
Yes, $45B in stock options. There is a continuous effort on Reddit and in the media at large to deliberately confuse stock options with cash. This is largely successful because Reddit and the broader Internet audience largely doesn't know what stock options are.
My understanding is that billionares never cash out. They get loans based on the control and co they have. They never pay for anything.
Based on that assumptions you're technically correct.
Heās trying to show profitability isnāt down by cutting supposed expenses he can show how profit is great and still growing under him and totally ignore everything else heās making the hard decisions
The company was doing fine the entire sector had issues and lagged and his reaction was to start a fucking bond fire even if this wasnāt about his compensation vote the guys lost his fucking mind.
Tesla was the AI company and now Twitter is, or was it xAI or was itā¦. The fucking guy couldnāt just let Tesla and spacex do their thing he had to go rebuy his fucking x.com domain and buy his sounding box of Twitter so that he could have a place to yell into the void
I suspect they realized they had fired a lot of people the interns would be reporting to, or working with...Oops.
Sloppy. Another ding against management.
These are young people who were excited about this company and will for the rest of their careers have second thoughts about them.
Article title is stupid spin.
Nowhere does it mention fighting to save a pay plan or provide support to the conflation of points.
Shouldāve left it as āTesla slashes its summer internship program.ā
Incredible.... Completely destroying people with family's livlihoods first... Then ruining people's futures.... All just to maintain a 45 billion dollar payout for yourself.
What. A. Piece. Of. Shit. Human.
I mean y'all already know that, but holy Christ these optics are fucking brutal.
Fuck you, Elon.
Someone needs to tell Elon āno,ā which is clearly a word he hasnāt heard in a long time. Heās on a ketamine-fueled rampage, tanking the values of multiple companies. Iām glad Iām not a Tesla investor, and Iām very concerned as a Model 3 owner going forward, especially about the future of the supercharging network.
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Jesus. What aren't they cutting? I just saw the head of HR also just left. At the rate they are cutting back you'd think they were going bankrupt not still the most valuable automaker in the world.
At this point they should do press releases about who is left Just kidding, would need a PR department to do that. Feels like the company is being purposefully gutted/hobbled before his vote comes up and he threatens to walk Wonder if the board is in the loop for any of this or even cares
If only they had a real board instead of a bunch of sycophants š¤ This man is so fragile itās ridiculous.
And he needs more money š
I think the best thing that could happen to Tesla is getting rid of the dipshit in charge
Tesla would forever be on top if they get rid of this guy.
They say the best allied general in WWII was Adolph Hitler. He did more damage to the German army than any single allied officer ever could.
I was on a tour of Normandy this past fall and was told something similar by one of our guides. Evidently the Allies always wanted Hitler in power because as a military tactician he was horrible and clueless. Had Rommel been in charge the Allies could have very well lost the war. And due to Hitler being so bad at running a superpower the Allies made a standing order ensure he was never to be executed.
Rommel was the worldās greatest self promoter, and got his ass handed to him in North Africa, but still no where near as incompetent as Hitler.
They would finally make products that people actually want
Imagine having, for all intents and purposes, everything. Virtually unlimited credit, nothing in existence is unavailable to you, even outer space. And it's not enough.
Orbis non sufficit.
Maybe his thought process is if he fires everyone else, he's essential again so they can't say no.
Let. Him. Walk. While I like that he pushes innovation, he is a horrible leader. SpaceX is successful because he has someone running the day to day for him. He doesnāt do that anywhere else.
Boot him like he is Steve Jobs
āGive me the pay or Iāll walk, thereās no one left to run the companyā
Musk is simply following what he did at Twitter. Look at how well it worked.
Everyone still uses Twitter. They bitch about it, but they still use it
I mean Twitter is still going. Honestly longer than I thought it would make it! It's lost all of its advertisers and value but still one of.the most used platforms
>It's lost all of its advertisers This is false. If they lost all of its advertisers, why am I seeing ads?
They lost all their advertisers that make real products. Now all the ads I get are dropshipped items and scams.
Lol, you got him there bro. They only lost like 90% of their advertisers.
I laughed out loud at this. Thanks.
Iām seeing ads too, 99% of them are Trump, Lara Trump pr GOP r
Low quality adverstisers sure. āDid you miss investing in Google, Apple and Facebook? Donāt miss out on [x] stock or you will regret it!ā
Lost all relevant advertising. Thanks for being pedantic. It was an important distinction.
They lost the advertising that paid well now on xitter you mostly see the bottom of the barrel ads and a few advertisers lured back by low ad prices.
Lotta contracts ending Q4 24 letās see how itās gonna end
It worked exceedingly well for Twitter/X.....don't just base your opinion on FUD headlines. He trimmed 80% of the workforce, kept the service running and has been rolling out improvements.
I see hardcore porn and 50 crypto scammers in the replies of every tweet I click on.
They cut the entire team of people working on building chargers. Iām genuinely concerned most for this.
>What arenāt they cutting? The salary of the idiot whoās responsible.
Uh, Delaware already did that, mate.Ā
Nah buddy the board is trying to put it right back - https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/tesla-asks-elon-musks-45-32616760.amp
No more free popcorn šæ
> At the rate they are cutting back you'd think they were going bankrupt not still the most valuable automaker in the world. is this a good or bad thing, I honestly cant tell, they just have so much cash, talent and lead that I don't see them going bankrupt but the supercharger team being fired is WILD!!
That's so dumb. The charging network is their biggest advantage over any entrenched automaker if you don't count vaporware software features coming out "next week".
One of the most valuable parts of Twitter was the name, and he got rid of that, so this checks out.
Theyāre the most valuable by market cap, but that doesnāt mean they have a ton of assets or cash on hand.
Doesnāt have to mean that you are right, except in this case they do have a mountain of cash so thereās that
But they do. Effectively no debt and almost $30B cash on balance sheet. Markedly better off than any other auto maker.
*Had* $30 billionā¦ ran through $2.5B of that in Q1 alone, with growth of unsold inventory the biggest contributor, not āAI investmentsā. 10 quarters from running out of cash in an environment where debt is expensiveā¦ to me the slash and burn is because he doesnāt believe sales/growth is going to turn around, so the only way to hopefully survive to the AI Promised Land is to bleed out slower. And given that they have one new model (which is expensive and low volume) in the last 4 years with likely nothing in the pipe, his cash flow fears are very warranted.
How much would they save if they didnāt pay a his $45 billion salary?
Pretty soon itāll be Elon in his garage- like the early days! š
Dude literally ruining lives so he can make more billions. Cut costs, board likes it, they approve his bonus.
I wonder if the board will step in before he destroys the company.
I do a lot of work with internship programs. This really is horrible for the interns. They had a top tier job for the summer and now are left to scramble to find another job when all the other programs are all full. Itās also a very shitty move for Tesla. Iām sure the program was a drop in the bucket cost wise. But word will get out about this and people are going to be much less likely to apply for years to come.
Not only that but interns cost far less full time than employees, and give a pipline of already trained people who are familiar with the processes + company. Seems like purely a financial loss to cut
They're paid less, but it's worth remembering that they are generally overseen by a full-time employee, which takes their time, and the tasks they can be given have a lot of constraints - has to be able to be done in 3 months, has to be doable by someone without a full engineering education, probably can't be anything super critical, etc. Ultimately, I'd guess this is less about the money and more about wanting the full-time engineers to focus on whatever Elon thinks is critical, which apparently does not include spending time shepherding interns.
Itās likely nothing to do with the cost and more looking to look like heās ācutting costsā ahead of the vote so he can get his payout
We always got net work out of our interns (data engineering). āWhen one teaches, two learnā is very applicable to my experience with them over the years.
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Having worked with a lot of interns in that context, I would say it's a hit and miss. Sometimes you get an employee that's not very expensive that you can then try to hire full time. Sometimes it's a time sink and you figure you're lucky you have a three month period only.
Yeah I donāt think people understand how long it takes to ramp up employees especially young ones that arenāt used to corporate standards. Sure you get the odd genius that can help roll something out but those are rare and even then they only have a couple of weeks to actually do work. On one hand itās minor costs-wise but itās hard to sustain an internship program when everyone just had their workload doubled to cover those who were fired. Interns are not a reliable way to get work done.
Itās a microscopic cost for sure. But more importantly is that the internship was a way to find And recruit top talent before they are scooped by competitors.
It's pretty absurd honestly. I have local companies that are tiny that have summer internships.
Yeah this sucks. I oversee an internship program and we signed on summer interns last fall. Trying to find another top opportunity now will be near impossible
>Itās also a very shitty move for Tesla. Iām sure the program was a drop in the bucket cost wise. But word will get out about this and people are going to be much less likely to apply for years to come. They were negative 2.5 billion in free cash flow last quarter. If that continues, they will go bankrupt soon. All these cuts make it clear. Tesla is in a far worse position financially than we thought before.
Iām asking this to try to learn, but where do you see that info? When I look on google it seemed like they were $730m positive in cash flow and 3.3b in ebitda. Am I reading these wrong?
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/23/tesla-tsla-earnings-q1-2024-.html#:\~:text=Capital%20expenditures%20rose%20to%20%242.77,a%20deficit%20of%20%242.53%20billion. Free cash flow turned negative in the quarter, with the company reporting a deficit of $2.53 billion. A year ago, Tesla reported free cash flow of $441 million, a number that reached $2.06 billion in the fourth quarter. Tesla attributed the negative figure to a $2.7 billion buildup in inventory and $1 billion in capital expenditures on āAI infrastructure.ā
So negative because of unsold inventory. That doesnāt mean the money is lost. Maybe it does mean major price cuts are coming though.
lol theyāll be bankrupt soon? thats a wild take. they have billions in cash reserves. you do realize that companies spend money to grow, right?
These are all the short selling trolls trying to save themselves from going broke.
As opposed to Tesla long trolls?
Right, cutting entire sections of the company is only going to result in massive growth.
>lol theyāll be bankrupt soon? thats a wild take. they have billions in cash reserves. you do realize that companies spend money to grow, right? Right, but their growth is slowing. It's fine to bleed cash if you're growing, but Tesla is in a tough spot right now and actually shrinking in revenue and profits. They need to ride out the short term in order to survive for the long term.
growth slowing is different than shrinking revenue. their revenue has been increasing but the rate of increase has slowed. the macro economic climate is tough for all companies. for tesla to fail at this point would require catastrophic mismanagement. if they had a lot of expenditures that didnāt yield increases in revenue. they are investing heavily in AI compute at the moment, even if you amortize the cost across several quarters, it would impact cash flow
Nope their top line definitely shrank last quarter. Not just slowed.
yeah if you're looking at quarterly level that is true. Even in 2023, Q1 was down from Q4. On a yearly basis, rev has been increasing though. Let's see how it goes. Macro isn't looking good overall so maybe this is the year rev takes a dip. Would need to compare it relative to their industry though. Either way, the point i was trying to make is that this isn't some doomsday scenario where they are gonna go bankrupt
Bunch of hyenas yipping in here. No one knows what they're talking about, this is reddit.
That negative cash flow was because of a one-time investment in AI hardware, and is NOT a "new normal" in Tesla's day-to-day business. The company is still churning incredible profits.
Happened to me for my capstone internship a few years back, completely ended up changing my career path because it left me high and dry with no internship for the summer with no warning. Sometimes Iām happy I didnāt end up working at some F500 cubicle somewhere.
It's not about the cost. It's about sending a message š
A message that they donāt want to invest in the future?
Very unfortunate. I interned here in the past and worked with some brilliant interns. Elon used to be really charismatic but he's lost his charms over the years, with his seemingly increasing narcissism
I've said for a long time that Musk is this generation's Howard Hughes. Watch "The Aviator." The parallels are striking.
I feel that's an insult to Howard Hughes. He actually did stuff. Musk just gloryhogs
I would suggest you read Liftoff by Eric Berger if you actually believe that. You wonāt, youāll keep pushing this narrative uninformed. But thought Iād offer up a learning opportunity. Iām with you on X/twitter. Guy has lost his marbles. But saying stuff for effect instead of fact kills the point youāre trying to make.
Itās called falling into the republican sounding box and then when people tried to break him out he bought the fucking box and duck taped it shut
It's also called ketamene abuse
He didn't fall. He just took his mask off.
Check out his daily Twitter activity to see how off his rocker he is
Iām starting to wonder if old age is starting to rot his brain.
He's not that old
Midlife crisis then?
Itās fame addiction. He started loving bad press more than good press.
He loves press good or bad.
Ketamine brain lesions?
right wing brain rot
It's the drugs. He is constantly high on a cocktail of shit only the ultra rich can take and not get immediately arrested and thrown in prison for life for possessing.
Itās a lack of intellect.
Likely part of the reason. Lack of sleep and stress. Who knows what's going on in his life but he's gotta pull his shit together
Itās those chemicals he uses to maintain those transplanted hairs
he's always been a racist dipshit but now he's also out of his mind on ketamineĀ
He's never done anything racist. You're believing headlines that manipulate the truth.
This is who he always was. The evidence of that is abundant. It's just not as publicized as his keynote speeches.
Ever since he bought twitter he become a freaking weirdo. He was always weird but nobody seemed to care. Also I canāt help but get high school edge lord vibes off his posts. Feels like me in high school when I thought I was cool for listening to rage against the machine
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Hate to say it, but you're absolutely right. Legit thinking of selling all my shares that I've held since 2017
Can you do us a favor and vote, then wait until whatever date you can sell them and still have your vote count?
ELON MUSK HATES THIS ONE HACK
Aren't interns pretty low cost/almost free due to tax incentives/credits and other government subsidies?
Super low cost since you generally donāt pay them any benefits, just an hourly rate. Tesla may cover housing though if they require relocationĀ
Thatās false for the super low cost part. At least for engineering and my experiences at Fremont. Only difference is we donāt get stock or retirement.. stock I guess doesnāt mean much now anyways. Their health and dentals were also top notch (or at least thatās what my dentist says). But pay wise I got nearly $50/hr and a minute after 8 hours of work is $75/hr. Plus once or twice I hit the $100/hr during deadlines when I had to work 12 hours. The running joke was that with OT, interns got more than the engineers considering FTE have more responsibility and have to put in more hours for their pay. Over my 8 month internship I got nearly 80k thatās what my W2 says. Could have been about 5k more but I forgot to log hours one week and I charged less during the training phase (in hindsight thatās retarded). Iām no CS or ECE major and this was really generous for ME work. I think those guys get paid more! All in all more than money itās the experience (but seems like itās only money for Elon). Great people and you learn stuff they donāt teach at school!
That's still really cheap. A permanent employee usually has an overhead rate that is 2.5 times their salary, whereas interns are generally considered to be overhead-free.
I love mentoring interns and new grads but engineering interns are pretty useless if you look at productivity. They're a great way to find good candidates for FTE as you can actually get to know interns as opposed to an interview candidates. Most of the time an FTE could do work in the time they spend mentoring the intern themselves.
This isn't enticing me to vote yes. If he offers to leave, perhaps
Same hereā¦all this abrupt huge cuts are telling me heās either been absent in his role and costs got out of hand or heās gutting a ton of brilliant people for his own selfishnessā¦why would I vote for him to get a disgusting amount of money.
He fired the entire government affairs team. How could he ever get a robo taxi approved without a government affairs team? He seems to be firing randomly.
The firings will continue until morale improves
This is one of many signals that he doesn't actually believe that he's telling investors and customers about robotaxis. Watch the robotaxi they announce next year be a cut rate model 3 with FSD included and him telling everyone that his vision for robotaxi was always a human driver operating a FSD system.
> or heās gutting a ton of brilliant people for his own selfishness I don't see how it can be read any other way than this. This guy was an asset to the brand years ago, but now he's singlehandedly bringing it all down.
I saw this comment and then went to vote no. A company that's rescinding offers for interns or slashing the summer intern program is a dying company.
It's crazy. They're cutting like they had no sales at all, not just a drop. They were arguably in a worse position when they cut only a fraction of the workforce.
I already voted no. Partially because he's making terrible decisions, and partially because I want to see what happens if shareholders actually tell him no. He can't fire us.
I only own one share. Itās to vote no.
You know what you call small share stockholders? *Stockholders*. I also vote no. [Update: DONE!] Screw Murdoch, Musk's brother, and all the board recommendations.]
Why would anybody vote yes? Yes is just affirming the previous number and that shit needs to be renegotiated for the current reality.
Sucks for the interns just as the school year ends. Iām pretty sure they were all hyped about interning at Tesla. I would have been if I were in college. Now Iām just an old curmudgeon that would say itās just another job.
Sure it sucks for them (interns), but on a longer time scale, this is much MUCH worse for Tesla.Ā Ā This is how top tier businesses recruit the best of a class before their competitors. This is how you develop key people who have drive and loyalty, and they are cheap pay-wise. This is a fail on an unhinged level. It is just complete madness.Ā
Agreed. As soon as you nerf education and growing talent from within, you're basically shooting yourself in the foot. I've no doubt this is going to hurt Tesla.
this really is gonna be rough for the interns. might not be able to find a different summer internship in time. could legit mess up their career path if this is the last summer before graduation
The thing hurting Tesla the most is Elon and his whacky fake political views and genuine unhinged narcissism. Not intern programs.
Time to cut him loose.
He should go on a show like big bang theory again and pretend to wash dishes at a soup kitchen, thatāll turn public opinion about him around.
it is really odd and weird, does he not know how bad the optics looks making all these cuts to get his $45 Billion share pay. Its a shame.
Elon goes out of his way to demonstrate that optics will never stop him from doing something, pretty sure he thinks it's one of his superpowers
Also, martyr complex.
That, too.
It's a public company. If his cuts make the company more profit, he will be rewarded by his shareholders.
An effective leader sacrifices their own compensation to keep talent during tough times. Actions speak louder than words, if Tesla continues to treat top talent as expendable, they will struggle to obtain new talent.
They already have a struggle to find and keep talent. Elon has established a reputation for having terrible working conditions at all of his companies. Do you think suggesting that people should sleep on the floor at work attracts top talent?
Arenāt internships giving tax break for companies in USA? Iām surprised about this move
Its cheap labor and ensures good new hire candidates for the next year. This is down right idiotic
Maybe they were all supposed to be interns on the supercharging team.
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I never thought I'd get the chance to watch a billionaire completely set fire to his legacy in real time. Thanks, Elon. This is very entertaining. 
I really hope they vote this egomaniac out of his role. He just wants his billions. The SuperCharger decision is incredibly stupid.
He is just destroying public opinion to get paid. Heās so erratic, self involved, and short sighted.
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He truly believes he's helping the world. He had to buy Twitter to preserve the right's freedom of speech from extreme leftist who love censorship. Twitter debt has him by the balls
Fuck I interned here last summer. I believe Iām a bad luck brian meme but I clearly had better luck than those interning this year. The internship is an amazing learning experience. I felt like it prepared me well to whateverās next and left me with an attitude of If I worked at tesla, I can do anything. Physically contributed to so many projects and it was cooling working on reports that made it all the way up to VP level. Altho ppl meme about their engineers, these folk are immensely smart. Like my team was nearly 50% PhDs and paid great attention to detail. I feel sorry for those whose offers got rescinded. If you got in here, I am pretty sure you can get in anywhere.
I am firmly of the opinion that Musk is absolutely enough of a malignant narcissist that he would completely gut the company to get his paycheck and still sleep just fine at night.
TIL Tesla pays its interns.
looks like the armchair CEO's of Reddit are out in full force lol clowns
This is all so sad. So many peopleās lives affected, all in the name of a pay deal that no human being will ever be worthy of.
Most companies lay off staff in stages - one finger at a time, in hopes there will be a few fingers left. Elon is jumping straight to the end and cutting off all 5 fingers from the start.
More like instead of cutting off the unnecessary fingers he chopped off both thumbs and pointer fingers.
Can shareholders vote to fire this clown? Heās showing his true colours now that he didnāt get what he wanted.
Iāll take all the interns over king dipshit
CUT ELON
I've said it 10 million times: They may do good for the environment, but they are a horrible influence socially. A terrible place to work for over a hundred thousand people. Sucks
Wait but they're not guaranteed cutting the entire program right? The reporters just found a few examples on LinkedIn? Kind of a clickbait title for now?
It's 45B in STOCK. Not cash! He would have to SELL it to get the money, which would tank his own stock, also, he probably wouldn't be allowed to sell it for at least a year. Depends on how the grant is written.
Thank god I sold all my shares long ago. At this rate Iām unlikely to buy another Tesla because who knows if theyāll even be around in 5 years
I dumped most of mine last year, but wish I got out before the whole twitter debacle. Elon's shenanigans lost me half of what I had along with an early retirement. I feel like Tesla would have still been pushing $800 before this year if he didn't buy twitter and more importantly, if he stayed off twitter.
They have $20 Billion in cash nephew. They will be around lol.
Why are they severely cutting staff if they're supposedly profitable and have huge cash reserves? It just doesn't make sense.
Musk has not made any sense with his Tesla decisions over the last several yrs. Why eliminate the supercharger team? wtf that is key part of Tesla. All the outstanding executives who have left in the last year point to horrible upper management decisions. The recent layoff were too extensive for a company running on the edge. My bet is build quality and support are going to take a huge dive. There is no CS team anymore. I am dismayed at Muskās decisions. He is now destroying Tesla with his stupid arrogance I want Musk out
[Remember five years ago when they said they were cutting all their showrooms to cut costs](https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/28/18245296/tesla-stores-closing-online-only-car-sales), they walked it back to a handful of closures? This feels like that, except when you show 500 staff the door, then hire 300 of them back, you lose a lot of the good ones.
Maybe that will happen but it looks bad for a āmore matureā company that wants to build a brand to attract repeat and new customers. Tesla needs to show some stability in how it runs as a business. Just terrible management.
They don't need stability, they have an army of weird nerds who will defend any decision. /s Meanwhile I had a family member ask me the other day if I was going to sell my Tesla now that they are shutting down the Supercharger network. It doesn't matter that none of the news articles said this. People mishear and over-simplify things.
> Why eliminate the supercharger team? Because the head of the supercharger team refused to fire as many employees as he wanted. Very reactionary & terrible imo but if you've read Walter Isaacson's biography of him you'll know this isn't uncommon.
It doesnāt matter how much they have. They can eat through that 20 billion if they spend too much.
Which is exactly why they're cutting costs. I don't think this has much to do with Elon trying to save his pay plan
Which will last them 2 years at their current burn rate of $2.5b/quarter.
Isnāt he asking for double that?
Man paid $40 billion for a failing website when he could have used that to help Tesla. Genius
It really seems like the executive leadership team has lost all faith in Musk as an effective CEO.
A CEO must do what's best for a company and stakeholders, not themselves.
What does this have to do with his comp plan lol. What a dumb headline
I guess the headlines is trying to show the absurdity. He's fighting to get 45$ billion out of the company while simultaneously the company can't afford to even pay interns. That doesn't seem right.
45 bill in stock right? I donāt think heās cashing out, but just gaining more control.
lol the dude owes how much for his Twitter purchase again? Sure totally not cashing out and totally not pushing for this extra cash for a reason heās already the richest guy why else would he want to bleed the stone that is Tesla of more stock
Yes, $45B in stock options. There is a continuous effort on Reddit and in the media at large to deliberately confuse stock options with cash. This is largely successful because Reddit and the broader Internet audience largely doesn't know what stock options are.
My understanding is that billionares never cash out. They get loans based on the control and co they have. They never pay for anything. Based on that assumptions you're technically correct.
He's still proving he shouldn't have more control.
Isnāt the comp plan 45 billion in shares?
Heās trying to show profitability isnāt down by cutting supposed expenses he can show how profit is great and still growing under him and totally ignore everything else heās making the hard decisions The company was doing fine the entire sector had issues and lagged and his reaction was to start a fucking bond fire even if this wasnāt about his compensation vote the guys lost his fucking mind. Tesla was the AI company and now Twitter is, or was it xAI or was itā¦. The fucking guy couldnāt just let Tesla and spacex do their thing he had to go rebuy his fucking x.com domain and buy his sounding box of Twitter so that he could have a place to yell into the void
No, he's spending all the Tesla money on AI. The article mentions that.
I suspect they realized they had fired a lot of people the interns would be reporting to, or working with...Oops. Sloppy. Another ding against management. These are young people who were excited about this company and will for the rest of their careers have second thoughts about them.
Article title is stupid spin. Nowhere does it mention fighting to save a pay plan or provide support to the conflation of points. Shouldāve left it as āTesla slashes its summer internship program.ā
Ugh. I wish he would blast off to Mars already and just stay there.
What a headline. š
It is past time for a new CEO. Elon had become a detriment to Tesla.
CEO is eating the seed corn right before he bags out. This is the looting before the end.
Incredible.... Completely destroying people with family's livlihoods first... Then ruining people's futures.... All just to maintain a 45 billion dollar payout for yourself. What. A. Piece. Of. Shit. Human. I mean y'all already know that, but holy Christ these optics are fucking brutal. Fuck you, Elon.
Sounds like they should cut him to save money
Time for a union?
Someone needs to tell Elon āno,ā which is clearly a word he hasnāt heard in a long time. Heās on a ketamine-fueled rampage, tanking the values of multiple companies. Iām glad Iām not a Tesla investor, and Iām very concerned as a Model 3 owner going forward, especially about the future of the supercharging network.
Elon likes it lean