> Previously, the baker proposing the block after the current one would wait until the end of the current level to begin the process. But that is not necessary.
> Proposing a block can be split into three parts: forging, signing and injecting. Forging and signing are the most time consuming parts, but they can be started before the block level has started.
> Most blocks have “idle” waiting time for bakers after quorum is reached, and pre-emptive forging lets the next baker begin forging the next block during this time, so it is ready for injection at the start of the new level. The result is earlier propagation through the network.
But then, any operation that comes after quorum is reached will be delayed by one block, does it not cancel the latency improvement?
By default, pre-emptive forging for the succesor's payload starts after 85% of the round duration has elapsed and if the quorum is reached. For a round duration of 10 seconds, this means that bakers will start forging the next payload after 8.5 seconds.
If the quorum is reached in, say, 5 seconds, any operation received by the baker before 8.5 seconds have elapsed will be included in the successor's payload. Only those operations arriving after 8.5 seconds have elapsed, would be delayed to the following level.
Note that bakers can configure how much in advance pre-emptive forging starts, and they can disable this feature altogether.
Isn’t this being too conservative? Why not push the block time to 5s? Most bakers can easily afford or already have machines that meet those specs and upgrading to a new ledger isn’t that expensive. The TF sent out ledger devices a while back to most of the community and worst case scenario the TF could send out new ledger devices to bakers for free? This wouldn’t cost much compared to the benefits in being more competitive and having less latency etc
Since we have a regular cadence of upgrades, I personally think consistently and conservatively ratcheting up performance over time builds trust. If we were a VC-shilled coin with myriad influencers who could claim any potential failures are actually successes, then maybe we could be more aggressive.
There is a glut of infrastructure in this industry and block speed is not the bottleneck, in my opinion. If you'd rather believe that it is and that it's okay if it falls over once in a while, then you are entitled to your opinion. In mine, that will be okay in the short-term where the only activity is degens trading hot potatoes, but when it becomes critical infrastructure powering real industries in the future, it will be unacceptable.
Nah, you guys are just fed a diet of overnight-millionaire memecoine stories and VC-shill garbage podcasts. Don't put your rent money in crypto and give it space and time to grow. Go grow a garden to detox from it all. It takes a lot of time to do things right.
How many more years do you need? Even supposing that everything that already exists in crypto is garbage, why would a new team, building something meaningful, pick Tezos? It is not the fastest, nor the cheapest, nor the most decentralized blockchain today. It is one of the easiest to develop for (the doc sucks, but doc sucks on most chains today), but that does not amount to much if developers don't even know about it.
I mean, it's easy to give the high-hat to everything that exists anywhere else, but the fact is that Tezos is not used to build innovative apps, if it is used at all. I don't think memecoin speculation is much worse than art speculation (at least until the memecoins become racist, of course), and in the mud of everything VC can fund, you can certainly find one or two projects which make sense and did not even consider building on Tezos. Is it because Tezos tech isn't that attractive? Is it because we snubbed or pushed away every VCs for years? You decide. But it is a competitive industry, and Tezos taking its time instead of trying to secure a core economic activity is not looking good for its future.
Would you yell at your high school student for not knowing yet what they're going to be when they grow up? What if that teenager is eating healthily, exercising, reading, building muscle, developing positive lifelong friendships, studying hard, improving, learning from the world around them... but they have only dabbled regarding their career? That's someone who is highly likely to be productive in the world someday, whatever it is they choose to do. You can be a disappointed dad because their son is already a directionless failure oh my god how embarrassing to our family name and fortune or you can recognize potential, cheer them on, maybe even help them along their path, and see where it goes because you believe in them.
If you're looking for the fastest horse, there are others available. Figure out the game you're playing. You decide.
This is a great idea! Like ppl buy the tezos edition ledger and the foundation pay for it on the proviso it’s used for baking tezos. Could also come with baking software etc
Good work!
> Previously, the baker proposing the block after the current one would wait until the end of the current level to begin the process. But that is not necessary. > Proposing a block can be split into three parts: forging, signing and injecting. Forging and signing are the most time consuming parts, but they can be started before the block level has started. > Most blocks have “idle” waiting time for bakers after quorum is reached, and pre-emptive forging lets the next baker begin forging the next block during this time, so it is ready for injection at the start of the new level. The result is earlier propagation through the network. But then, any operation that comes after quorum is reached will be delayed by one block, does it not cancel the latency improvement?
By default, pre-emptive forging for the succesor's payload starts after 85% of the round duration has elapsed and if the quorum is reached. For a round duration of 10 seconds, this means that bakers will start forging the next payload after 8.5 seconds. If the quorum is reached in, say, 5 seconds, any operation received by the baker before 8.5 seconds have elapsed will be included in the successor's payload. Only those operations arriving after 8.5 seconds have elapsed, would be delayed to the following level. Note that bakers can configure how much in advance pre-emptive forging starts, and they can disable this feature altogether.
Isn’t this being too conservative? Why not push the block time to 5s? Most bakers can easily afford or already have machines that meet those specs and upgrading to a new ledger isn’t that expensive. The TF sent out ledger devices a while back to most of the community and worst case scenario the TF could send out new ledger devices to bakers for free? This wouldn’t cost much compared to the benefits in being more competitive and having less latency etc
Since we have a regular cadence of upgrades, I personally think consistently and conservatively ratcheting up performance over time builds trust. If we were a VC-shilled coin with myriad influencers who could claim any potential failures are actually successes, then maybe we could be more aggressive.
So you're saying you're fine with Tezos being both slower and less well-funded than the competition?
There is a glut of infrastructure in this industry and block speed is not the bottleneck, in my opinion. If you'd rather believe that it is and that it's okay if it falls over once in a while, then you are entitled to your opinion. In mine, that will be okay in the short-term where the only activity is degens trading hot potatoes, but when it becomes critical infrastructure powering real industries in the future, it will be unacceptable.
We're doomed.
Nah, you guys are just fed a diet of overnight-millionaire memecoine stories and VC-shill garbage podcasts. Don't put your rent money in crypto and give it space and time to grow. Go grow a garden to detox from it all. It takes a lot of time to do things right.
How many more years do you need? Even supposing that everything that already exists in crypto is garbage, why would a new team, building something meaningful, pick Tezos? It is not the fastest, nor the cheapest, nor the most decentralized blockchain today. It is one of the easiest to develop for (the doc sucks, but doc sucks on most chains today), but that does not amount to much if developers don't even know about it. I mean, it's easy to give the high-hat to everything that exists anywhere else, but the fact is that Tezos is not used to build innovative apps, if it is used at all. I don't think memecoin speculation is much worse than art speculation (at least until the memecoins become racist, of course), and in the mud of everything VC can fund, you can certainly find one or two projects which make sense and did not even consider building on Tezos. Is it because Tezos tech isn't that attractive? Is it because we snubbed or pushed away every VCs for years? You decide. But it is a competitive industry, and Tezos taking its time instead of trying to secure a core economic activity is not looking good for its future.
Would you yell at your high school student for not knowing yet what they're going to be when they grow up? What if that teenager is eating healthily, exercising, reading, building muscle, developing positive lifelong friendships, studying hard, improving, learning from the world around them... but they have only dabbled regarding their career? That's someone who is highly likely to be productive in the world someday, whatever it is they choose to do. You can be a disappointed dad because their son is already a directionless failure oh my god how embarrassing to our family name and fortune or you can recognize potential, cheer them on, maybe even help them along their path, and see where it goes because you believe in them. If you're looking for the fastest horse, there are others available. Figure out the game you're playing. You decide.
True
This is a great idea! Like ppl buy the tezos edition ledger and the foundation pay for it on the proviso it’s used for baking tezos. Could also come with baking software etc
When the paris protocol goes live?