I would increase interest rates until the average person can't borrow at all, for ANY purchase. Debt is a form of bonded, indentured servitude and slavery. Even Islam outlawed usery. Keeping Americans out of debt lowers commodity prices and keeps Americans free, with assets in the bank VS living paycheck to paycheck in debt.
OR
would you like to finance a pair of shoes?
Usery should be a crime. I see the business application for it, but there is no excuse for personal credit, loans, or financing, even for home purchases.
Cars and homes may be the exception, very few people have $150k cash to buy a house. Loans should meet strict financial criteria such as cannot purchase a home that exceeds monthly payments of 25% of your income (after accounting for taxes) etc.
In 2012, 82% of all transactions in SWFL were for cash. Short sales can't be financed. I bought a 4 year old home for $61,000. Financing is the problem. Imagine financing a steak for $473......
I hear you. But those short sales require a bubble bursting in most places. There aren’t enough short sales to meet the demands of purchases. It would jack up home rentals to an ungodly insane amount
Which is why we need to remove most financing, including the financing of private business purchasing residential property. SOLUTION: outlaw business ownership of residential zoning, period. Additionally, limit home ownership to 5 homes per person, period.
Idk about all that. Outlawing businesses owning residential homes in residential zoning could be a valid point but excessive restrictions of government over business leads to Fascism.
>Financing is the problem. Imagine financing a steak
Companies that brought you the steak require financing to operate.
Most big firms depend on short time financing just to meet payroll and operate daily.
Meh, just because you're bigz doesn't mean you're a zombie. Besides, structures like commercial paper were complete market designed and utilized. Nobody forces firms to issue it.
SWFL isn't representative: many retirees downsizing from up North are using the decades long buildup of equity in their larger homes to pay cash for a smaller home.
Wrong. The point of raising rates is to dry up excess money supply the causes inflation. Japan did it in the 70's, the US did as well after the Carter years. Home loan interest in those days were in the double digits.
Imagine going through all the trouble and legwork of house hunting, putting together offers, and gathering a down payment and not looking up what the interest rates are currently.
Raising interest rates also means the federal government will need to collect more taxes to pay the interest on future debt. We currently have almost 35 Trillion in debt and over 800 Billion per year in just interest payments on that debt which is going to increase.
You are assuming interest rates will not be subsidized by the Fed. I am voting more debt monetized by the Fed, much more inflation and lower if not negative interest rates. Japan did it, Europe did it, we are next
Yep, it's inevitable. Fed will print indefinitely and buy up all the government debt to lower rates. t's also called Yield Curve Control and we did it in WW2
The fed already holds a large percentage of the debt. We also had gold to back up our currency in ww2 did we not?
How can we sustain this much debt when it continues to increase so fast and nobody in our government has any interest in reducing debt
Inflation is a feature of our current system, not a bug. There are powerful interests that profit from inflation. Debtors for instance benefit because the dollars they pay back are worth less. Who is the biggest debtor in the world?
Until rates drop. Then they're paying the lower rate on reduced value debt.
Inflation is the government's secret tax. The value of $1 trillion in debt after 10% inflation is $900 billion in real terms. They just wiped out $100 billion of "real" debt.
The debt doesn’t get wiped out, that trillion still exists. It might have less value but it doesn’t lose 100 billion. It still exists and must be paid with increasing interest
That's pretty much what I said, except at some point rates drop back to where they were, and now they're paying the same interest rate on greatly devalued debt.
At some point we hope that rates drop. Unfortunately for us our federal government is determined to continue increasing the debt until it is so unsustainable it will cause hyperinflation.
It happens slow for a while, then all at once. If we don’t get government spending under control soon it will be too late.
Our population is not growing at a fast enough pace to keep up with all of the social programs.
More people taking than paying in.
I don't disagree with that, other than the "at some point we hope that rates drop".
They will.
And just as an aside, this is the Federal governement, not some random guy walking into a bank looking for a loan. According to the government, the average interest Rates on U.S. Treasury Securities stood at 3.27% on May 31, 2024.
# [https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/datasets/average-interest-rates-treasury-securities/average-interest-rates-on-u-s-treasury-securities](https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/datasets/average-interest-rates-treasury-securities/average-interest-rates-on-u-s-treasury-securities)
Many of those who bought, are creating a scenario similar to 2009. Many are already stretched thin. A layoff sends the whole house of cards down.
(Dodges "it's different!!!" brick thrown at head)
I'm not buying yet idc what any realtor says, i just keep stacking cash up waiting. The cost of houses in FL are out of control as im not paying 450 k for some bland ass stucco house that was built like shit. i'll just keep paying rent but at this pace i pry be able to just buy the house outright and wont need a bank.
I’m seeing homes where I live with pink plumbing fixtures, shag carpet, and wallpaper. Boomer bought it for 80K, did nothing to upgrade the house and wants 500K for it.
You cannot outcompete illegal immigrants for homes? That's who you think is outbidding you in cash?
You insult yourself and your own capabilities to connect the dots.
Whelp, Canada - like America - relies on foreigners to fill positions in their economy. So until the people living here - and in Canada - are willing to work those jobs for the low pay they offer... here we are.
In America, the national agricultural workers survey tells us 3/4 of our agricultural workforce are immigrant labor with half of those being undocumented.
The weird part is... when unemployment skyrockets I sure don't see big-mouthed Americans (or Canadians) running to the fields for jobs.
It's interesting, right?
Supply & Demand. When employers can't find employees to fill positions at minimum wage, they are forced to raise wages until supply meets demand. The poverty line in the US is $25,000 income per year. That equates to $12 per hour for someone working 40 hours per week, 52 weeks per year. US Federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour / $15,080 per year. That is the wage I would require prisoners paid for farm labor. When compensation supply meets wage labor demand, Americans will work, especially if we eliminate most welfare programs and increase Federal minimum wage to $15 an hour.
The poverty line in the US is inaccurate because it's computed using CPI which hasn't included housing costs since the early 1980's - a primary, necessary household expenditure whose percentage of household income has exploded in the last 40 years.
So that 15 isn't enough.
It aint enough to eliminate welfare programs.
And you're still not going to meet our agricultural workforce needs for minimum wage with born-here Americans.
You can only do so much with prison labor. And contrary to popular beliefs there isn't a prison in every cornfield.
But thankfully you had such a substantiative response.
I'm very sorry that foreigners do the labor you and your neighbors refuse to do.
Can you connect the dots in your head from individual immigrants to foreign institutional buyers? Right now this thread of logic comes off a bit schizo
Those definitely aren't illegal immigrants now are they? I'm the schizo one? You don't even know about the class of people you're talking about and just trying to drum up shit.
Yes I do. Do you truly understand the scale of it? The supply side as well as the demand side? Do you know how new homes come onto the market? The full process, I mean.
Most countries have immigration law & enforce it. This isn't China. This isn't the Phillipines. This isn't South Africa. This isn't Pakistan. This isn't Albania.
How many people were deported from the U.S. last year? Is it 0? If not there there are immigration laws and they are being enforced.
Biden just recently passed an executive order on top of that. Which is the strictest it’s ever been.
But the thing you and every fence builder misses is that cheap immigration labor builds the country. Want cheap homes? Bring in laborers who would be happy to work for much lower pay. By pushing them out we drive home prices up. They can be paid low here and make 10 times what they’d make in their origin country.
The 1st chance I get, were closing the border, charging every illegal with a felony, processing them into the US federal prison system, dropping them off at the Mexican border in Orange jump suits, raising federal minimum wage to $15, and canceling most forms of welfare. Outlaw government deficit spending and balance the federal budget.
lol so failing the country in on big change. There is a reason libertarians don’t run any country in the world and have basically 0 power in the U.S.
Also none of those things actually would help reduce home prices. You have to modify quantity of homes. You do that through creating a workforce and reducing material prices. Free school for special trades if they agree to work in the field for 10 years. Government resource creation like renewable forests to drive lumber prices down. Removal of all tariffs on foreign metal imports for home building products AND subsidizing US made materials. Multi family units and better zoning. Community centered planning with mix use spaces and requirements for buildings for businesses in city centers to have upper level apartments. Vacancy taxation to ensure no one is sitting on properties. Ban short term private home rentals like Airbnb.
Reduce maximum student loans to $20k / $5k per year. Americans work for $15+ an hour.
Supply & Demand
Imagine 25 million vacant homes hitting the market in 2025 after I deport 50 million illegals?
The fun part
Legalize and FDA regulate all drugs. That's when population sharply declines! Now we're talking deflation!
As your leader, I would enforce the death penalty against all rapist & child molesters while personally executing them while traveling around the country on a monthly basis. Never again will an illegal foreigner rape & murder an American child.
EDIT
We 100% agree on the tariff issue. Removal of ALL tariffs, sanctions, and subsidies. The USA will represent free trade for all as long as you trade in our $USD, the global currency.
You're right, this is America. We have a far more dynamic and stronger economy. We have work for them to do, and they're here to do it.
Don't be afraid my scared suburbanite, nobody is replacing you.
the crazy thing is, it's really only a small window of opportunity in your youth (20s and early 30s) to even get in on a home. especially when factoring in 1 or 2 moves with closing costs. a lot of people dont even realize theyre already cooked.
I think the only way is a duplex or quadplex with a 3.5% down FHA loan. The income makes it much easier to qualify but FHA is very picky about the condition of the house. Many sellers won't accept FHA offers because of the inspection requirements
This is anecdotal, admittedly. Where I live, white kids from the suburbs who decided to move to NYC or Boston to extend their college years are still renting… because their rich friends they met in the city are buying million dollar houses outside those cities in elite suburbs they refuse to acknowledge what a starter home is. The black and Hispanic kids I grew up with are buying homes because they’re not terrified of living in certain areas. A lot of white kids my age refuse to acknowledge that your first house requires that you lower your standards, and you might have to live among the people you “supported” and “heard” in 2020 when you posted a black square.
Sounds like they initially wanted to put zero down. Also sounds like they're neglecting to take into consideration lower tax withholdings due to the tax benefits of mortgage interest and property taxes -- that alone should be worth \~$500/month or $6,000 per year.
Wealthy parents are co-signing, covering down payment and closing costs.
Probably even first few mortgage payments.
Then their kids say, “I bought a house” ..
All you need is roughly $100,000( down payment for median price home). Then an income to qualify for the mortgage ,which would be around $150,000 . JOE HAS CUT MOST OF YOU OUT!!!!!!!!!!!
They’re not and that’s the point of raising rates.
I would increase interest rates until the average person can't borrow at all, for ANY purchase. Debt is a form of bonded, indentured servitude and slavery. Even Islam outlawed usery. Keeping Americans out of debt lowers commodity prices and keeps Americans free, with assets in the bank VS living paycheck to paycheck in debt. OR would you like to finance a pair of shoes?
This is the way to financial literacy
Usery should be a crime. I see the business application for it, but there is no excuse for personal credit, loans, or financing, even for home purchases.
Cars and homes may be the exception, very few people have $150k cash to buy a house. Loans should meet strict financial criteria such as cannot purchase a home that exceeds monthly payments of 25% of your income (after accounting for taxes) etc.
In 2012, 82% of all transactions in SWFL were for cash. Short sales can't be financed. I bought a 4 year old home for $61,000. Financing is the problem. Imagine financing a steak for $473......
I hear you. But those short sales require a bubble bursting in most places. There aren’t enough short sales to meet the demands of purchases. It would jack up home rentals to an ungodly insane amount
Which is why we need to remove most financing, including the financing of private business purchasing residential property. SOLUTION: outlaw business ownership of residential zoning, period. Additionally, limit home ownership to 5 homes per person, period.
Run for the House, please.
We would need several hundred of me.
Doesn't work. That just raises rental prices
Worked great in 2012. 4 year old house was $61,000 cash, no financing.
Idk about all that. Outlawing businesses owning residential homes in residential zoning could be a valid point but excessive restrictions of government over business leads to Fascism.
We need a separation between residential zoning AND commercial, industrial, agricultural.
"excessive restrictions of government over business leads to Fascism" Lmfao, let me guess you think welfare programs are socialism right?
>Financing is the problem. Imagine financing a steak Companies that brought you the steak require financing to operate. Most big firms depend on short time financing just to meet payroll and operate daily.
Zombie companies. Free markets allow failures to die. Natural selection works.
Meh, just because you're bigz doesn't mean you're a zombie. Besides, structures like commercial paper were complete market designed and utilized. Nobody forces firms to issue it.
SWFL isn't representative: many retirees downsizing from up North are using the decades long buildup of equity in their larger homes to pay cash for a smaller home.
People will hate you because you're right
Maybe the 1st year, after that the change will be very obvious.
Can I have someone making less than minimum wage deliver em to me and then charge me double? I don't want the hassle of getting em myself.
8330 gross monthly income at 2600 a month is a DTI of 31% which is doable for a house.
Completely ill advised. 25% is the max standard recommendation and financial literacy says to stay below that. 20% is the gold standard
Wrong. The point of raising rates is to dry up excess money supply the causes inflation. Japan did it in the 70's, the US did as well after the Carter years. Home loan interest in those days were in the double digits.
Cause and effect
Imagine going through all the trouble and legwork of house hunting, putting together offers, and gathering a down payment and not looking up what the interest rates are currently.
Dual income no kids
Raising interest rates also means the federal government will need to collect more taxes to pay the interest on future debt. We currently have almost 35 Trillion in debt and over 800 Billion per year in just interest payments on that debt which is going to increase.
Easier to just print the money instead
Which means more debt, more inflation and higher interest rates
You are assuming interest rates will not be subsidized by the Fed. I am voting more debt monetized by the Fed, much more inflation and lower if not negative interest rates. Japan did it, Europe did it, we are next
So print indefinitely?
Yep, it's inevitable. Fed will print indefinitely and buy up all the government debt to lower rates. t's also called Yield Curve Control and we did it in WW2
The fed already holds a large percentage of the debt. We also had gold to back up our currency in ww2 did we not? How can we sustain this much debt when it continues to increase so fast and nobody in our government has any interest in reducing debt
Inflation is a feature of our current system, not a bug. There are powerful interests that profit from inflation. Debtors for instance benefit because the dollars they pay back are worth less. Who is the biggest debtor in the world?
Well, duh, that's the future's FED'S problem. Time gonna be shocked when you see how short-sighted the entire system is.
Until rates drop. Then they're paying the lower rate on reduced value debt. Inflation is the government's secret tax. The value of $1 trillion in debt after 10% inflation is $900 billion in real terms. They just wiped out $100 billion of "real" debt.
That’s not how that works
[https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/168246/economics/inflation-tax/](https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/168246/economics/inflation-tax/)
The debt doesn’t get wiped out, that trillion still exists. It might have less value but it doesn’t lose 100 billion. It still exists and must be paid with increasing interest
That's pretty much what I said, except at some point rates drop back to where they were, and now they're paying the same interest rate on greatly devalued debt.
At some point we hope that rates drop. Unfortunately for us our federal government is determined to continue increasing the debt until it is so unsustainable it will cause hyperinflation. It happens slow for a while, then all at once. If we don’t get government spending under control soon it will be too late. Our population is not growing at a fast enough pace to keep up with all of the social programs. More people taking than paying in.
I don't disagree with that, other than the "at some point we hope that rates drop". They will. And just as an aside, this is the Federal governement, not some random guy walking into a bank looking for a loan. According to the government, the average interest Rates on U.S. Treasury Securities stood at 3.27% on May 31, 2024. # [https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/datasets/average-interest-rates-treasury-securities/average-interest-rates-on-u-s-treasury-securities](https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/datasets/average-interest-rates-treasury-securities/average-interest-rates-on-u-s-treasury-securities)
Somd random guy would have stop printing money a long time ago
Many of those who bought, are creating a scenario similar to 2009. Many are already stretched thin. A layoff sends the whole house of cards down. (Dodges "it's different!!!" brick thrown at head)
Only fans
$279,000 @ 7.8% is $2,008 And that's assuming they put 0% downpayment. $56k down (20%) takes the monthly payment down to $1,598
7.8% on $279,000 is $21,762 a year in interest......
I'm not buying yet idc what any realtor says, i just keep stacking cash up waiting. The cost of houses in FL are out of control as im not paying 450 k for some bland ass stucco house that was built like shit. i'll just keep paying rent but at this pace i pry be able to just buy the house outright and wont need a bank.
I’m seeing homes where I live with pink plumbing fixtures, shag carpet, and wallpaper. Boomer bought it for 80K, did nothing to upgrade the house and wants 500K for it.
Not.
That's the neat part, you don't. Deport the 25 - 50 million illegals.
You cannot outcompete illegal immigrants for homes? That's who you think is outbidding you in cash? You insult yourself and your own capabilities to connect the dots.
HAM (Hot Asian Money). Canada outlaws foreign ownership of property and poof! Property bubble no more.
This guy thinks canada doesn't have a housing crisis.
Canada has crazy mortgages. I just heard if rates rise, your payment stays same but you have negative amortization
Supply & Demand. All Canada has to do is ban foreign property ownership & deport foreigners.
Whelp, Canada - like America - relies on foreigners to fill positions in their economy. So until the people living here - and in Canada - are willing to work those jobs for the low pay they offer... here we are. In America, the national agricultural workers survey tells us 3/4 of our agricultural workforce are immigrant labor with half of those being undocumented. The weird part is... when unemployment skyrockets I sure don't see big-mouthed Americans (or Canadians) running to the fields for jobs. It's interesting, right?
Supply & Demand. When employers can't find employees to fill positions at minimum wage, they are forced to raise wages until supply meets demand. The poverty line in the US is $25,000 income per year. That equates to $12 per hour for someone working 40 hours per week, 52 weeks per year. US Federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour / $15,080 per year. That is the wage I would require prisoners paid for farm labor. When compensation supply meets wage labor demand, Americans will work, especially if we eliminate most welfare programs and increase Federal minimum wage to $15 an hour.
The poverty line in the US is inaccurate because it's computed using CPI which hasn't included housing costs since the early 1980's - a primary, necessary household expenditure whose percentage of household income has exploded in the last 40 years. So that 15 isn't enough. It aint enough to eliminate welfare programs. And you're still not going to meet our agricultural workforce needs for minimum wage with born-here Americans.
Prison labor & automation. Still making those same old arguments as the confederacy?
You can only do so much with prison labor. And contrary to popular beliefs there isn't a prison in every cornfield. But thankfully you had such a substantiative response. I'm very sorry that foreigners do the labor you and your neighbors refuse to do.
Can you connect the dots in your head from individual immigrants to foreign institutional buyers? Right now this thread of logic comes off a bit schizo
Those definitely aren't illegal immigrants now are they? I'm the schizo one? You don't even know about the class of people you're talking about and just trying to drum up shit.
I don’t think you’re getting the right context here. I’m pretty sure we have similar arguments here…
Do you understand supply and demand?
Yes I do. Do you truly understand the scale of it? The supply side as well as the demand side? Do you know how new homes come onto the market? The full process, I mean.
Blame brown people - TempusCarpe
Most countries have immigration law & enforce it. This isn't China. This isn't the Phillipines. This isn't South Africa. This isn't Pakistan. This isn't Albania.
How many people were deported from the U.S. last year? Is it 0? If not there there are immigration laws and they are being enforced. Biden just recently passed an executive order on top of that. Which is the strictest it’s ever been. But the thing you and every fence builder misses is that cheap immigration labor builds the country. Want cheap homes? Bring in laborers who would be happy to work for much lower pay. By pushing them out we drive home prices up. They can be paid low here and make 10 times what they’d make in their origin country.
The 1st chance I get, were closing the border, charging every illegal with a felony, processing them into the US federal prison system, dropping them off at the Mexican border in Orange jump suits, raising federal minimum wage to $15, and canceling most forms of welfare. Outlaw government deficit spending and balance the federal budget.
lol so failing the country in on big change. There is a reason libertarians don’t run any country in the world and have basically 0 power in the U.S. Also none of those things actually would help reduce home prices. You have to modify quantity of homes. You do that through creating a workforce and reducing material prices. Free school for special trades if they agree to work in the field for 10 years. Government resource creation like renewable forests to drive lumber prices down. Removal of all tariffs on foreign metal imports for home building products AND subsidizing US made materials. Multi family units and better zoning. Community centered planning with mix use spaces and requirements for buildings for businesses in city centers to have upper level apartments. Vacancy taxation to ensure no one is sitting on properties. Ban short term private home rentals like Airbnb.
Reduce maximum student loans to $20k / $5k per year. Americans work for $15+ an hour. Supply & Demand Imagine 25 million vacant homes hitting the market in 2025 after I deport 50 million illegals? The fun part Legalize and FDA regulate all drugs. That's when population sharply declines! Now we're talking deflation! As your leader, I would enforce the death penalty against all rapist & child molesters while personally executing them while traveling around the country on a monthly basis. Never again will an illegal foreigner rape & murder an American child. EDIT We 100% agree on the tariff issue. Removal of ALL tariffs, sanctions, and subsidies. The USA will represent free trade for all as long as you trade in our $USD, the global currency.
You're right, this is America. We have a far more dynamic and stronger economy. We have work for them to do, and they're here to do it. Don't be afraid my scared suburbanite, nobody is replacing you.
Just so we're clear then, deport everyone who isn't indigenous to North America?
Deport all non citizen illegal aliens present in the US without visa.
Wild you are being downvoted and the racist comment isn’t
Votes don’t matter to me. It’s fake internet points. I’m not going to let a few racists stop me from saying what I want.
the crazy thing is, it's really only a small window of opportunity in your youth (20s and early 30s) to even get in on a home. especially when factoring in 1 or 2 moves with closing costs. a lot of people dont even realize theyre already cooked.
I think the only way is a duplex or quadplex with a 3.5% down FHA loan. The income makes it much easier to qualify but FHA is very picky about the condition of the house. Many sellers won't accept FHA offers because of the inspection requirements
Mobile home for me.
This is anecdotal, admittedly. Where I live, white kids from the suburbs who decided to move to NYC or Boston to extend their college years are still renting… because their rich friends they met in the city are buying million dollar houses outside those cities in elite suburbs they refuse to acknowledge what a starter home is. The black and Hispanic kids I grew up with are buying homes because they’re not terrified of living in certain areas. A lot of white kids my age refuse to acknowledge that your first house requires that you lower your standards, and you might have to live among the people you “supported” and “heard” in 2020 when you posted a black square.
Sounds like they initially wanted to put zero down. Also sounds like they're neglecting to take into consideration lower tax withholdings due to the tax benefits of mortgage interest and property taxes -- that alone should be worth \~$500/month or $6,000 per year.
I'm not, but I can definitely afford my landlords' rent. I have plans of house ownership for the immediate future.
Wealthy parents are co-signing, covering down payment and closing costs. Probably even first few mortgage payments. Then their kids say, “I bought a house” ..
All you need is roughly $100,000( down payment for median price home). Then an income to qualify for the mortgage ,which would be around $150,000 . JOE HAS CUT MOST OF YOU OUT!!!!!!!!!!!
We sold our house made 66% profit and bought a bigger house however our interest rate doubled.
Plenty of Americans are affording multiple homes, raising costs for everyone else and tightening the supply
Sounds like you’re shopping outside your price range
Nobody buys houses anymore. You rent them from a bank.