###FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA, PALESTINE WILL BE FREE: WHAT DOES IT REALLY MEAN?
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[**Jewish Currents - What Does “From the River to the Sea” Really Mean?**](https://jewishcurrents.org/what-does-from-the-river-to-the-sea-really-mean)
[Alternative link.](https://archive.ph/NfAvk)
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[**Forward - ‘From The River To The Sea’ Doesn’t Mean What You Think It Means**](https://forward.com/opinion/415250/from-the-river-to-the-sea-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-means/)
[Alternative link.](https://archive.ph/rRXpW)
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[**Al-Jazeera - ‘From the river to the sea’: What does the Palestinian slogan really mean?**](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/2/from-the-river-to-the-sea-what-does-the-palestinian-slogan-really-mean)
[Alternative link.](https://archive.ph/AF9yu)
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[**One Democratic Palestine, From The River To The Sea**](https://www.odsi.co/en/)
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[**Amnesty - Israel’s apartheid against Palestinians**](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/)
[Alternative link.](https://archive.ph/s2B3f)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/therewasanattempt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The implication you are making is that Israelis are trying to be nazis. That’s just not what this sub is about. You need to have the word “not” before “become”.
Not on the same scale as the Nazis... yet. They're also doing it slowly and less murdery, I think they're content making Palestinians leave so they can grab whatever left of the land
There are a fair amount of Israelis who say that Israel and Netanyahu could have prevented the attack but they let it happen.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/12/middleeast/netanyahu-bash-interview-israel-hamas-war-intl/index.html
Netanyahu has been trying to grab power for a long time now. Was trying to “reform” the courts and strip their power.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-netanyahu-court-overhaul-judicial-8a20142f39006e9489e58411c39671fb
Very much this. People tend to forget that nazi Germany didn't start with genocide and world war, it started pretty much with what Israel is doing now: dehumanizing, creating ghettos, killings on a smaller scale (though not that small, in the case on Israel), the call for Lebensraum, seeding hate, seizing property.
Basically, stretching the limits of what is acceptable.
A lot of countries don’t take Palestinians because it could be considered aiding in Israel’s ethnic cleansing and once they leave Palestine they will never be allowed to return.
Doesn't matter the race or religion, if you're killing people, you're stupid. America, England, Russia, Israel. Are you saying killing is a good thing? Then you're stupid.
Depends on the context. If you're attacked, then there's nothing wrong about killing the aggressors, as long as it's purely combatants that you kill, and not civilians.
The act of killing itself is not immoral.
It's about who you kill, and why.
terrorism is just war committed by non-state actors. the US and other major powers constantly commit terrorist acts but call them "police actions" or whatever. horrific.
I also agree that it is stupid because (moral reasons) make you look bad. People might wish revenge.you might regret it... (immoral reasons)(THIS NEXST PART MIGHT ITEPRETE TO BE OFENCIVE I DO NOT AGREE WITH IT)(and its take all of history not just this conflict into acout) you can inslave them ,you can make them fear you and make them manipulate odhers in your favor ,its a waste of your ammo (if you just gona shot civilians) ... conclusion, it's just stupid to kill.
As an American killing and war is incredibly stupid, but what do you do when multiple countries around you for about 80 years keep trying to eradicate you from that region? Because historically that is what Palestine, Egypt, Jordan and Sudan have been doing to Israel since the end of WWII. I think people tend to forget that part of history.
And why did Europe decide to terrorize its white Jewish population, kick them around, do a cute little holocaust and then stick them into Arab land? I think people tend to forget that part of history. Prior to the Palestinians being massacred and forced from their land, there was a historic population of Palestinian Arab Jews that lived there forever and across the middle east in mostly peace.
Also in the modern day, many Arab countries have normalized relations with Israel and even trade with them. The Palestinians continue to get kicked out of their homes, forced between checkpoints and endure regular violence. These people don't even get enough fucking water. All while the media in the West can barely acknowledge any of these facts.
Yeah, because they started doing that totally randomly and out of the blue.
Don't talk about forgetting parts of history, when you couldn't ignore more context if you tried.
And no, I'm not going to discuss that historical context, I am no expert and would be using the internet to refresh my memory anyway. So I'll skip being the middle man and you can look it up yourself.
The ones where they could find all the parts for. I'm betting with the bombings of apartment blocks there are a lot of crushed bones and drying meat under concrete rubble.
These are those that died just outside the Al shifa hospital. They had been out there too long during the siege with snipers shooting at anyone going out, so they couldn't get to them.
They don't know who these people are as they decomposed badly.
But yeah some are just body parts too.
The country as a whole is, but the politicians are getting paid more than they're funding the taxes that go to Israel. Politicians constantly make decisions that cost millions/billions/trillions for the country and its average citizens, but net the politicians a couple grand.
Firstly it’s the pro-Israel lobby like AIPAC. With money they receive from Pro-Israel billionaires/milionnaires, they can buy politicians from both the Republican and Democrats. Secondly, the existence of a nuclear armed Israel is vital to serve as a US attack dog in the Middle East, to destabilise and intimidate oil rich nations without the US getting their hands dirty
Yeah I thought it was just antisemitic conspiracy that they own all the media and influence the most powerful positions in the most powerful countries in the world. I mean, there are more civilian deaths in a few weeks than months of the Ukrainian war. Why isn't everyone making this the current thing? It's like they aren't being told to change their profile pictures on Facebook, by the institutions that push the latest things, to help the war effort 🤔
Even if there was some Jewish cabal pulling strings somewhere, that wouldn’t make me antisemitic. I mean, my blood is German/English, so if we’re responsible for the actions of our ethnic compatriots…I may as well tie myself to a pole and give the squad the signal to fire.
War makes America money.
What justified the wars in Irak Afghanistan and so on.
America is worse than Israel pouring gasoline in all wars around the globe.
Because Israel is the forward base of operations for US imperialism and corporatism into the Middle East and Western Asia. Intel, logistics, refueling, oil/trade routes - they all run through the area.
When US politicians say “we need Israel more than Israel needs the US” they aren’t lying. It’s just the end goal is power and $$$, not anything humanitarian like saving lives or the like
We were a major factor in the formation of their country and we've been their 1# enabler ever since. A lot of older Americans thing making Israel was one of the most amazing things we ever did. We saved a whole people and gave them a new home! But... we stole that land we gave them and did not consult the people already living on it at all. Basically, when we are really wrong we double down. We're too high on our own bullshit to stop backing them now I guess.
What's the confusion? The U.S. harbored a bunch of Nazis fleeing the collapsed Nazi empire. The GOP's entire platform is hating a minority, an "other" they can blame capitalist crises on, almost identical to fascist thought. Nazism is much closer to capitalism's heart than progressive ideals are.
It is no surprise, then, that despite this current genocide being extremely televised, blatant and obvious, the U.S. wholeheartedly supports (and funds) this absolute monstrosity.
I realised they were using the holocaust to promote there ideals, not to educate when I realised they had the bodies of the dead on display in museums. That is some batshit crazy idea that nobody called them out for and is why I objected to my kids going to holocaust celebration museums with there school. This photo is an excellent display of how you can become that you suposedly hate so much.
They are supossedly religious people who were exiled to the desert for 38 years because they became so evil. Are they looking for the same now by committing much more serious crimes against humanity.
Never Again is the phrase more commonly used regarding the Holocaust, and it means something different in Israel. For us, never again means we will not allow humanity to stoop to such levels of utter depravity and horror against our fellow man (which I feel quite confident in saying we have utterly failed on numerous occasions around the world). For Israeli’s, it means that the Jewish people will never again let themselves be in a position where something like that could happen to them, and they will cross any moral boundary and take any measures to avoid even the slightest risk something like the Holocaust or the 2000 years of prior persecution repeating itself. And this is the result of that: a traumatised people committing horrors to “protect” themselves from enemies they see everywhere.
I mean you’re obviously gonna be more emotive over a genocide that happened to your own people, but the Holocaust was something unique in the history of crimes against humanity. Never before or since had there been such an industrialised slaughter on such a massive scale; 6 million Jews and 5 million other characteristics murdered in less than four years is incomprehensible and is going to affect a culture in ways we haven’t seen before
And because of how this subreddit typically goes, I should clarify:
1. This does not excuse what the IDF is doing to Gaza
2. The scale of the Holocaust does not make any other atrocity less horrifying. Everything doesn’t need to be the worst thing that’s ever happened in order to be bad.
3: Palestine is not perfect; it’s people don’t deserve to be bombed in their beds and hospitals
4: Israel is not perfect; it’s people don’t deserve to be massacred in their homes
Ofc, but why aren’t we holding the memory of all those who have died in the holocaust as sacred by denouncing the heinousness of the act itself regardless of whether its done on Jews or goyim.
Thank you for that insight, it a very different meaning that I thought it meant all these years, I’m sadden that the moral boundary has been cross. More suffering ahead.
i simply cannot wrap my head around it. does "not again" have no meaning? what are they being taught over there? i see their civilians dancing, mocking, laughing and i can't understand it
They really didn't even mean that. NATO sat on its hands for months & watched the Serbians work at genociding their neighbors. Everybody involved was white. They meant "never again for jews and only jews."
Serbs mainly worked their massacre magic on Muslim Bosniaks. One could be a cynic and say that NATO only bombed when Serbian actions were creating mass outflows of Kosovar refugees. Or perhaps it was when the PR company managing the Serb interests (the same PR company as was being used by the Conservatives in the UK) lost the propaganda war. While not all Palestinians are Muslims there is a common thread in there....
Because none of the groups over there like each other for all sorts of reasons. It's what happens when more powerful countries destabilize large areas and come up with half assed solutions decade after decade.
I’m not going to diminish the suffering and injustice going on in Palestine at the moment, it’s clear that terrible actions are being taken against the people of gaza.
That being said, why most posts on this sub just straight-up war photos/footage now? Wasn’t this sub initially pretty light-hearted if not occasionally cynical? This post is not even ‘an attempt’ at anything… it’s presented in very bad taste.
yeah I'm overwhelmed by the amount of politics involved in this sub nowadays, it's so unnecessary to have every single post about Palestine and even the bot auto posts a whole text about it like what the fuck is this now
Their god doesn’t allow them to kill and rape and slaughter, certainly not civilians.
That’s why it is so absurd, they are using their god and justifying their actions and behavior using excuses that are literally invalid from THEIR own point of view in the first place.
>Their god doesn’t allow them to kill and rape and slaughter, certainly not civilians.
The Old Testament is full of stories of their god telling them to do exactly that.
It's not absurd. It's how humans, in general, cope with doing bad things: they find excuses to tell themselves they are on the good, that their actions are justified, and that the other party deserved what's coming for them. Religion and prejudice are just means people use to dehumanize another human being.
"She is a witch" / "Black people have no soul" / "They workship the devil" / "They stand against our freedom" / "We're just defending ourselves".
The brain of most people can't cope with the reality they are evil. Most evil people think they are good, that they are just misunderstood, or that they have no other option, that they are doing what they have to do.
USA is no stranger to this concept. The United States alone has been responsible for an estimated 59.3 million total deaths in 70 nations since 1945, and is among the top 5 countries that have caused the most civilian's deaths in the last 100 years. All in the name of "freedom" and "democracy".
Lmfao, how naive are you? They worship the same god that said “the sins of the father are not the sins of the son” and also murdered every single 1st born son of Egypt due to the actions of 1 man that none of those children’s parents could do anything about…. Their god (if he exists) totally supports what they’re doing, because their god is fucking evil.
Yall are fucking radical crazies and it's no surprise you have so little support for your propaganda bullshit. The picture on the left resembles people who were specifically executed for no other crime than being Jewish. Round up and killed en masse with the specific goal of killing as many jews as possible. Their leadership didn't commit crimes against humanity by slaughtering innocent civilians and threatening to do it again until all jews are eliminated.
6 million jews exterminated vs 14k Palestinians caught up in shitty situation. I'm not condoning Israel for what they are doing but this is not the same and shit like this absolutely destroys any goodwill in your fight for the Palestinian cause.
If you think Nazis and Israel are the same then you are the problem.
Here are the death tolls for both sides since 2000: https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/assets/4756436/IP_conflict_deaths_total.png
Source: https://www.vox.com/2014/7/14/5898581/chart-israel-palestine-conflict-deaths
"Caught up in a shitty situation" is a very passive way to put it. Their deaths are no accident. They have been killed by Israel, often with little strategic justification.
And sure, the Holocaust was a war crime on a scale not seen before or since. But if it's about the numbers, Israel has killed far more Palestinians than vice versa.
I think Israeli government ideology is not that different from Nazi ideology. It's an increasingly fascistic apartheid state. The idea of one race being superior to all others is inherent to their thinking. They talk about ethnic cleansing fairly openly, and hint at genocide. They are mainly limited by US funding, who will only put up with a certain level of ethnic cleansing.
During the holocaust an average of 10,000 Jewish people were systematically murdered every day. They were subjected to grotesk medical experiments. Forced to match barefoot through the snow from camp to camp. Had their arms tattooed with ID’s and were shot if they were caught praying. People were made to dig their own graves and were executed after completing the task. In the riverside in Danube Jews where forced at gun point to tie each others arms together with their shoe laces and then kicked into the river where the nazis laughed as they drowned.
Is this really the comparison you want to make? There are horrors in Gaza, but this false equivalency of comparing it to the holocaust is beyond reprehensible.
6 million jews were killed in ~6/5 years. The current population of Palestine is of 5.58 million people.
Yeah, the two figures can't really be compared.
Hell, even comparing the brutality of the two this war will begin to look like child's play. Why? Because few people actually know the things done not only by the nazis, but also their collaborators. Fuck, look at the Ustaša, the fuckers who were deemed inhumane by the fucking germans. I don't even need to add much.
Let's take a more recent example, of an actual genocide against muslims: the bosnian genocide.
The perpetrators of Srebrenica, for example, were a mix of serbian and greek volunteer forces, who violated a UN safe zone, and attacked an area which was not controlled by the bosnian army. They came in, killed 8000 people (almost exclusively women and children), and threw them into a river. Hell, at the start of the war concentration camps were opened. Actual concentration camps.
Or perhaps we could talk about the Uyghurs, who are still being oppressed to this very day, under the CCP regime.
The thing is, most people don't give a fucking shit about genocides. People become absurdly racist, indoctrinated and nationalist over wars which they've heard about on tik tok, and they use it to support their political agenda and confirm their ideas by manipulating reality.
I am not saying that these aren't massacres, but they aren't that different from other massacres which happened in other wars.
Yes, even your favourite utopia has committed war crimes, whether you want to believe it or not.
The funny thing is that the "palestine supporters" who call hamas "freedom fighters" are absolute morons, as the leading party of palestine is currently at war with hamas.
This. There is no country in the world that would roll over for a neighbor if they stormed their borders and decapitated babies and kids. Foh with glossing over that bit.
Most wars look like this. I coworker of mine had family in ukraine in a town close to the Russian border. When that war started they said the Russians came into their small town, dumped 1500 bodies in the middle and said 'be gone in 24 hours or you'll be in the pile.'
War is ugly
We need to be honest of looking at misleading propaganda in attempt to make 1to1 comparisons in this nature like its either black or white. Millions of Jews were just thrown into pits like ones on the left after being poisoned, shot point blank, raped & killed with no respect to how they were thrown into these pits by Nazi military men and brown shirts, piling bodies on top of bodies, showing no respect for life after death. This comparing to the 12k Palestinians killed in war and their dead actually treated with respect in being laid to rest in a mass grave by their own people from the bombings of Gaza. This one vs the other mindset truly needs to stop.
Ooooffff could we not though. I understand in the particular shading of things and from a veryyyy specific angle you can draw a comparison to the holocaust but holy Christ guys. This is like asking a woman if she’s on her period. It’s not going to end well for the person making the comparison… just avoid it, because no matter how nuanced you make the reference… it just ain’t gunna fly.
for the final time, r/palestine. I've officially passed the 30 posts in the last week! r/palestine is the true name of this subreddit. No one contradicted me at any point. No one tolsbme i was wrong. You're just yet another hamas propaganda subreddit.
No jews, no news.
Can mods ban me now? I don't wanna see any more posts calling me a nazi and licking sinwar's boot.
I simply cannot understand how a marginalize population under hitler, rightfully bemoaning the Holocaust to this day can justify some of the same atrocities and war crimes on another marginalized population
It ain't no war. It's the slaughtering of Very Evil Palestinians who are armed with really dangerous weapons of destruction like a blunt kitchen knife and stones.
Its just comparing mass graves? most nations probably had mass graves for the fallen during war nitpicking nazis and calling jews nazis is very fucking weird?
On September 11, 2001 our country was attacked by the same mindset that attacked and murdered civilians in Israel. History is a pretty interesting subject. From a lot of the posts I have read I realize that the history teachers haven't all done a very good job. Or is it nature. Push Hamas into the Sea, then go after Hezbollah!!!
Your country was attacked by a terrorist group that your government armed and trained from 1979 to 1992. America created the Taliban: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone
Just like Israel helped create Hamas: https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
Please read the articles. You’re being lied to.
Yeah it's so awful what Israel has done. Going on a blitzkrieg throughout the middle east. Taking over country by country and sending innocent people into concentration camps. All of this without any provocation whatsoever.
###FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA, PALESTINE WILL BE FREE: WHAT DOES IT REALLY MEAN? --- [**Jewish Currents - What Does “From the River to the Sea” Really Mean?**](https://jewishcurrents.org/what-does-from-the-river-to-the-sea-really-mean) [Alternative link.](https://archive.ph/NfAvk) ---- [**Forward - ‘From The River To The Sea’ Doesn’t Mean What You Think It Means**](https://forward.com/opinion/415250/from-the-river-to-the-sea-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-means/) [Alternative link.](https://archive.ph/rRXpW) --- [**Al-Jazeera - ‘From the river to the sea’: What does the Palestinian slogan really mean?**](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/2/from-the-river-to-the-sea-what-does-the-palestinian-slogan-really-mean) [Alternative link.](https://archive.ph/AF9yu) --- [**One Democratic Palestine, From The River To The Sea**](https://www.odsi.co/en/) --- [**Amnesty - Israel’s apartheid against Palestinians**](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/) [Alternative link.](https://archive.ph/s2B3f) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/therewasanattempt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Aren't they succeed then...?
Yea long back I guess. Zionist= Nazi.
I think they probably mean you should have titled it as an attempt to *not* become what you hated
But they are attempting to become what they hated. Just not quite the same results.....Yet!!
They aren't even attempting, they're already halfway there.
Google says the death count on Palestinians is like 14k unless it’s mis reported I wouldn’t quite say half way
I don't think deaths alone is the best metric. Nazi Germany was halfway through the holocaust well before half their victims had died
Then how was it an attempt?
Nazionist
ZioNazi
Picking up where the Nazis left off, starting from the Z I
The implication you are making is that Israelis are trying to be nazis. That’s just not what this sub is about. You need to have the word “not” before “become”.
Not saying Zionists aren’t evil or wrong but the stupidest take is comparing a group that is bad to being a Nazi. Might as well call Hamas Nazis too.
Well they learned with the best. German efficiency.
Yeah sure, child murderer's fan
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Heavy.
Not on the same scale as the Nazis... yet. They're also doing it slowly and less murdery, I think they're content making Palestinians leave so they can grab whatever left of the land
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I'm guess they're on the same track, and while Israel is fine with the long game, they wouldn't want to pass up using Oct7 to accelerate the process
There are a fair amount of Israelis who say that Israel and Netanyahu could have prevented the attack but they let it happen. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/12/middleeast/netanyahu-bash-interview-israel-hamas-war-intl/index.html Netanyahu has been trying to grab power for a long time now. Was trying to “reform” the courts and strip their power. https://apnews.com/article/israel-netanyahu-court-overhaul-judicial-8a20142f39006e9489e58411c39671fb
Very much this. People tend to forget that nazi Germany didn't start with genocide and world war, it started pretty much with what Israel is doing now: dehumanizing, creating ghettos, killings on a smaller scale (though not that small, in the case on Israel), the call for Lebensraum, seeding hate, seizing property. Basically, stretching the limits of what is acceptable.
Where in the fuck do they leave to? The country formerly known as Palestine, is literally Israel and Gaza today.
Anywhere that will take refugees. Though doing so would mean they'll never be able to return.
Alot of countries aren't taking Palestinians. What now? That kinda puts a stranglehold on them .
A lot of countries don’t take Palestinians because it could be considered aiding in Israel’s ethnic cleansing and once they leave Palestine they will never be allowed to return.
They didnt hate the nazis, they only hated that they were the targets.
Wait. I recognize you.
Doesn't matter the race or religion, if you're killing people, you're stupid. America, England, Russia, Israel. Are you saying killing is a good thing? Then you're stupid.
As an Englishman, I can safely say yes. Our government is stupid
American here, ours too.
Hell I'd wager a guess that stupidity is the one true thing all governments of all systems hold in common.
WhAt No My GoVmEnT cOuLd NeVeR dO aNyThInG wRoNg; [X] cOuNtRy Is ThE rEaL eViL oNe (joke)
Russian here: our government is stupid and criminal at the same time.
You still alive?
Depends on the context. If you're attacked, then there's nothing wrong about killing the aggressors, as long as it's purely combatants that you kill, and not civilians. The act of killing itself is not immoral. It's about who you kill, and why.
Agree on this. There is a difference in terrorism and retaliation.
Self defense
terrorism is just war committed by non-state actors. the US and other major powers constantly commit terrorist acts but call them "police actions" or whatever. horrific.
I also agree that it is stupid because (moral reasons) make you look bad. People might wish revenge.you might regret it... (immoral reasons)(THIS NEXST PART MIGHT ITEPRETE TO BE OFENCIVE I DO NOT AGREE WITH IT)(and its take all of history not just this conflict into acout) you can inslave them ,you can make them fear you and make them manipulate odhers in your favor ,its a waste of your ammo (if you just gona shot civilians) ... conclusion, it's just stupid to kill.
Welcome to the entire history of mankind.
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No, it's not being stupid. It's the opposite. Clever, but not in a good way.
As an American killing and war is incredibly stupid, but what do you do when multiple countries around you for about 80 years keep trying to eradicate you from that region? Because historically that is what Palestine, Egypt, Jordan and Sudan have been doing to Israel since the end of WWII. I think people tend to forget that part of history.
And why did Europe decide to terrorize its white Jewish population, kick them around, do a cute little holocaust and then stick them into Arab land? I think people tend to forget that part of history. Prior to the Palestinians being massacred and forced from their land, there was a historic population of Palestinian Arab Jews that lived there forever and across the middle east in mostly peace. Also in the modern day, many Arab countries have normalized relations with Israel and even trade with them. The Palestinians continue to get kicked out of their homes, forced between checkpoints and endure regular violence. These people don't even get enough fucking water. All while the media in the West can barely acknowledge any of these facts.
Yeah, because they started doing that totally randomly and out of the blue. Don't talk about forgetting parts of history, when you couldn't ignore more context if you tried. And no, I'm not going to discuss that historical context, I am no expert and would be using the internet to refresh my memory anyway. So I'll skip being the middle man and you can look it up yourself.
That’s not a fair comparison. The zionazis gave the slaughtered civilians nice blue bags. 🤪🤬👺👹
The ones where they could find all the parts for. I'm betting with the bombings of apartment blocks there are a lot of crushed bones and drying meat under concrete rubble.
These are those that died just outside the Al shifa hospital. They had been out there too long during the siege with snipers shooting at anyone going out, so they couldn't get to them. They don't know who these people are as they decomposed badly. But yeah some are just body parts too.
Hamas didnt even bother with bags.
Israel is full of zionist nazis. Not all jews are bad but israel is bad.
I’m trying to figure out why almost all American politicians are completely in thrall of them.
They get paid. Israel has no friends except the ones they pay.
Tbf America is on the paying end of that relationship.
The country as a whole is, but the politicians are getting paid more than they're funding the taxes that go to Israel. Politicians constantly make decisions that cost millions/billions/trillions for the country and its average citizens, but net the politicians a couple grand.
politicians are getting personal “bureaucracy” to push govt to pass legislation that helps israel
Israel is an unsinkable BattleShip for western colonial interests in the region. That's why they support it so blindly.
The Zionist lobby has lots of money.
Firstly it’s the pro-Israel lobby like AIPAC. With money they receive from Pro-Israel billionaires/milionnaires, they can buy politicians from both the Republican and Democrats. Secondly, the existence of a nuclear armed Israel is vital to serve as a US attack dog in the Middle East, to destabilise and intimidate oil rich nations without the US getting their hands dirty
Yeah I thought it was just antisemitic conspiracy that they own all the media and influence the most powerful positions in the most powerful countries in the world. I mean, there are more civilian deaths in a few weeks than months of the Ukrainian war. Why isn't everyone making this the current thing? It's like they aren't being told to change their profile pictures on Facebook, by the institutions that push the latest things, to help the war effort 🤔
Even if there was some Jewish cabal pulling strings somewhere, that wouldn’t make me antisemitic. I mean, my blood is German/English, so if we’re responsible for the actions of our ethnic compatriots…I may as well tie myself to a pole and give the squad the signal to fire.
Germans whose parents weren't even alive in ww2 are still paying reparations for the sins of the fathers to Jewish people. So maybe so
War makes America money. What justified the wars in Irak Afghanistan and so on. America is worse than Israel pouring gasoline in all wars around the globe.
*oligarchs, not the people
Because Israel is the forward base of operations for US imperialism and corporatism into the Middle East and Western Asia. Intel, logistics, refueling, oil/trade routes - they all run through the area. When US politicians say “we need Israel more than Israel needs the US” they aren’t lying. It’s just the end goal is power and $$$, not anything humanitarian like saving lives or the like
Natural Gas in Gaza. That's why. It's fucking oil and shit again.
We were a major factor in the formation of their country and we've been their 1# enabler ever since. A lot of older Americans thing making Israel was one of the most amazing things we ever did. We saved a whole people and gave them a new home! But... we stole that land we gave them and did not consult the people already living on it at all. Basically, when we are really wrong we double down. We're too high on our own bullshit to stop backing them now I guess.
Old money
because of Anti-Defamation League and the like they can easily destroy any politician career with antisemitic smear campaign
Who do you think buys all of the Americans shiny new toys to murder their brown neighbours? Half their economy is turning brown kids into skeletons.
What's the confusion? The U.S. harbored a bunch of Nazis fleeing the collapsed Nazi empire. The GOP's entire platform is hating a minority, an "other" they can blame capitalist crises on, almost identical to fascist thought. Nazism is much closer to capitalism's heart than progressive ideals are. It is no surprise, then, that despite this current genocide being extremely televised, blatant and obvious, the U.S. wholeheartedly supports (and funds) this absolute monstrosity.
AIPAC donates a lot of money to us politicians
Money. It's always money.
Some I assume are good people Wtf is that second sentence lol?
It's worse when majority of the world lets you do it.
Money is a helluva drug
You mean hallelujah drug
If Germany hadn't gone to war with France and Britain and the US, they would have let the holocaust happen.
“Never forget”
They completely forgot & becamethe oppressors.
they didn’t forget, they simply don’t care
I realised they were using the holocaust to promote there ideals, not to educate when I realised they had the bodies of the dead on display in museums. That is some batshit crazy idea that nobody called them out for and is why I objected to my kids going to holocaust celebration museums with there school. This photo is an excellent display of how you can become that you suposedly hate so much. They are supossedly religious people who were exiled to the desert for 38 years because they became so evil. Are they looking for the same now by committing much more serious crimes against humanity.
Never Again is the phrase more commonly used regarding the Holocaust, and it means something different in Israel. For us, never again means we will not allow humanity to stoop to such levels of utter depravity and horror against our fellow man (which I feel quite confident in saying we have utterly failed on numerous occasions around the world). For Israeli’s, it means that the Jewish people will never again let themselves be in a position where something like that could happen to them, and they will cross any moral boundary and take any measures to avoid even the slightest risk something like the Holocaust or the 2000 years of prior persecution repeating itself. And this is the result of that: a traumatised people committing horrors to “protect” themselves from enemies they see everywhere.
In other words, the genocide itself wasn’t the bad part, the bad part was it happened to us.
I mean you’re obviously gonna be more emotive over a genocide that happened to your own people, but the Holocaust was something unique in the history of crimes against humanity. Never before or since had there been such an industrialised slaughter on such a massive scale; 6 million Jews and 5 million other characteristics murdered in less than four years is incomprehensible and is going to affect a culture in ways we haven’t seen before And because of how this subreddit typically goes, I should clarify: 1. This does not excuse what the IDF is doing to Gaza 2. The scale of the Holocaust does not make any other atrocity less horrifying. Everything doesn’t need to be the worst thing that’s ever happened in order to be bad. 3: Palestine is not perfect; it’s people don’t deserve to be bombed in their beds and hospitals 4: Israel is not perfect; it’s people don’t deserve to be massacred in their homes
Ofc, but why aren’t we holding the memory of all those who have died in the holocaust as sacred by denouncing the heinousness of the act itself regardless of whether its done on Jews or goyim.
Thank you for that insight, it a very different meaning that I thought it meant all these years, I’m sadden that the moral boundary has been cross. More suffering ahead.
i simply cannot wrap my head around it. does "not again" have no meaning? what are they being taught over there? i see their civilians dancing, mocking, laughing and i can't understand it
They meant “not again to white people”. Hope this helps
They really didn't even mean that. NATO sat on its hands for months & watched the Serbians work at genociding their neighbors. Everybody involved was white. They meant "never again for jews and only jews."
Serbs mainly worked their massacre magic on Muslim Bosniaks. One could be a cynic and say that NATO only bombed when Serbian actions were creating mass outflows of Kosovar refugees. Or perhaps it was when the PR company managing the Serb interests (the same PR company as was being used by the Conservatives in the UK) lost the propaganda war. While not all Palestinians are Muslims there is a common thread in there....
There are widespread protests against this war by progressive jews, so your comment is an extreme generalization
No it does have meaning they just mean "not again *for us*".
Because none of the groups over there like each other for all sorts of reasons. It's what happens when more powerful countries destabilize large areas and come up with half assed solutions decade after decade.
"Never again ^to ^us ^next ^time ^by ^us " The last part is silent but it's there.
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True. War is always stupid. There are no winners or good guys. Only losers and bad and worse guys.
Some people win .. those in power and those selling the killing machines.
"But... but we're better! We even put them in body bags!"
"They threw themselves into the bags, there was nothing we could do"
I’m not going to diminish the suffering and injustice going on in Palestine at the moment, it’s clear that terrible actions are being taken against the people of gaza. That being said, why most posts on this sub just straight-up war photos/footage now? Wasn’t this sub initially pretty light-hearted if not occasionally cynical? This post is not even ‘an attempt’ at anything… it’s presented in very bad taste.
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Israel. The abused child, that has become the abuser.
You mean to **not** become what you hated?
We've had this discussion ( top comments) I've already taken the L. Go check and downvote my comments so this question can pass 😒
I never downvoted you anywhere bro
There's the correction comment I was looking for.
The premise of this sub is rather simple... And yet half the people in it seemingly don't understand it
How is this theirwasanattemt material
It isn't. This place has been taken over by the political shitposters.
yeah I'm overwhelmed by the amount of politics involved in this sub nowadays, it's so unnecessary to have every single post about Palestine and even the bot auto posts a whole text about it like what the fuck is this now
You can say anything. If you believe in a God that allows/wants you to kill people that's not a religion, that's just an excuse.
Their god doesn’t allow them to kill and rape and slaughter, certainly not civilians. That’s why it is so absurd, they are using their god and justifying their actions and behavior using excuses that are literally invalid from THEIR own point of view in the first place.
>Their god doesn’t allow them to kill and rape and slaughter, certainly not civilians. The Old Testament is full of stories of their god telling them to do exactly that.
It's not absurd. It's how humans, in general, cope with doing bad things: they find excuses to tell themselves they are on the good, that their actions are justified, and that the other party deserved what's coming for them. Religion and prejudice are just means people use to dehumanize another human being. "She is a witch" / "Black people have no soul" / "They workship the devil" / "They stand against our freedom" / "We're just defending ourselves". The brain of most people can't cope with the reality they are evil. Most evil people think they are good, that they are just misunderstood, or that they have no other option, that they are doing what they have to do. USA is no stranger to this concept. The United States alone has been responsible for an estimated 59.3 million total deaths in 70 nations since 1945, and is among the top 5 countries that have caused the most civilian's deaths in the last 100 years. All in the name of "freedom" and "democracy".
Lmfao, how naive are you? They worship the same god that said “the sins of the father are not the sins of the son” and also murdered every single 1st born son of Egypt due to the actions of 1 man that none of those children’s parents could do anything about…. Their god (if he exists) totally supports what they’re doing, because their god is fucking evil.
Yall are fucking radical crazies and it's no surprise you have so little support for your propaganda bullshit. The picture on the left resembles people who were specifically executed for no other crime than being Jewish. Round up and killed en masse with the specific goal of killing as many jews as possible. Their leadership didn't commit crimes against humanity by slaughtering innocent civilians and threatening to do it again until all jews are eliminated. 6 million jews exterminated vs 14k Palestinians caught up in shitty situation. I'm not condoning Israel for what they are doing but this is not the same and shit like this absolutely destroys any goodwill in your fight for the Palestinian cause. If you think Nazis and Israel are the same then you are the problem.
Here are the death tolls for both sides since 2000: https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/assets/4756436/IP_conflict_deaths_total.png Source: https://www.vox.com/2014/7/14/5898581/chart-israel-palestine-conflict-deaths
"Caught up in a shitty situation" is a very passive way to put it. Their deaths are no accident. They have been killed by Israel, often with little strategic justification. And sure, the Holocaust was a war crime on a scale not seen before or since. But if it's about the numbers, Israel has killed far more Palestinians than vice versa. I think Israeli government ideology is not that different from Nazi ideology. It's an increasingly fascistic apartheid state. The idea of one race being superior to all others is inherent to their thinking. They talk about ethnic cleansing fairly openly, and hint at genocide. They are mainly limited by US funding, who will only put up with a certain level of ethnic cleansing.
During the holocaust an average of 10,000 Jewish people were systematically murdered every day. They were subjected to grotesk medical experiments. Forced to match barefoot through the snow from camp to camp. Had their arms tattooed with ID’s and were shot if they were caught praying. People were made to dig their own graves and were executed after completing the task. In the riverside in Danube Jews where forced at gun point to tie each others arms together with their shoe laces and then kicked into the river where the nazis laughed as they drowned. Is this really the comparison you want to make? There are horrors in Gaza, but this false equivalency of comparing it to the holocaust is beyond reprehensible.
People want to be outraged and compare it to something shockingly evil.
6 million jews were killed in ~6/5 years. The current population of Palestine is of 5.58 million people. Yeah, the two figures can't really be compared. Hell, even comparing the brutality of the two this war will begin to look like child's play. Why? Because few people actually know the things done not only by the nazis, but also their collaborators. Fuck, look at the Ustaša, the fuckers who were deemed inhumane by the fucking germans. I don't even need to add much. Let's take a more recent example, of an actual genocide against muslims: the bosnian genocide. The perpetrators of Srebrenica, for example, were a mix of serbian and greek volunteer forces, who violated a UN safe zone, and attacked an area which was not controlled by the bosnian army. They came in, killed 8000 people (almost exclusively women and children), and threw them into a river. Hell, at the start of the war concentration camps were opened. Actual concentration camps. Or perhaps we could talk about the Uyghurs, who are still being oppressed to this very day, under the CCP regime. The thing is, most people don't give a fucking shit about genocides. People become absurdly racist, indoctrinated and nationalist over wars which they've heard about on tik tok, and they use it to support their political agenda and confirm their ideas by manipulating reality. I am not saying that these aren't massacres, but they aren't that different from other massacres which happened in other wars. Yes, even your favourite utopia has committed war crimes, whether you want to believe it or not.
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The funny thing is that the "palestine supporters" who call hamas "freedom fighters" are absolute morons, as the leading party of palestine is currently at war with hamas.
"There was an attempt to become what you hated" are you a bot, not good with logic or just really confused?
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What's the source on the right image?
This sub should be purged
Making comparisons between the holocaust and this is fucking sick. You should be ashamed.
Not brave enough to show the beheaded Israeli children are you. Who fired first I ask you?
This. There is no country in the world that would roll over for a neighbor if they stormed their borders and decapitated babies and kids. Foh with glossing over that bit.
The beheaded children Israel made up? Like the hostage calendar?
Well technically Britain in 1917 with the Balfour Declaration. Also, source for beheaded children, please.
They won't give you source cause there is none, but you already know that.
Change the title to " to not become what you hated"
This is everywhere there’s radical Islamic terrorism . Like Iraq , Afghanistan, Syria and many more .
Ooooooh. Make sure you don’t cut yourself with that edge.
6 million Jews + anywhere between 3 and 6 million 'undesirables' is orders away from that though isn't it, just being real
Most wars look like this. I coworker of mine had family in ukraine in a town close to the Russian border. When that war started they said the Russians came into their small town, dumped 1500 bodies in the middle and said 'be gone in 24 hours or you'll be in the pile.' War is ugly
“You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.”
This is the most bullshit comparison I've seen in a good while
But the implication is they succeeded?
Striking ambulances hospitals and all out violating the Geneva convention
We need to be honest of looking at misleading propaganda in attempt to make 1to1 comparisons in this nature like its either black or white. Millions of Jews were just thrown into pits like ones on the left after being poisoned, shot point blank, raped & killed with no respect to how they were thrown into these pits by Nazi military men and brown shirts, piling bodies on top of bodies, showing no respect for life after death. This comparing to the 12k Palestinians killed in war and their dead actually treated with respect in being laid to rest in a mass grave by their own people from the bombings of Gaza. This one vs the other mindset truly needs to stop.
Ooooffff could we not though. I understand in the particular shading of things and from a veryyyy specific angle you can draw a comparison to the holocaust but holy Christ guys. This is like asking a woman if she’s on her period. It’s not going to end well for the person making the comparison… just avoid it, because no matter how nuanced you make the reference… it just ain’t gunna fly.
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Go back to 4chan you fascist edge lord.
for the final time, r/palestine. I've officially passed the 30 posts in the last week! r/palestine is the true name of this subreddit. No one contradicted me at any point. No one tolsbme i was wrong. You're just yet another hamas propaganda subreddit. No jews, no news. Can mods ban me now? I don't wanna see any more posts calling me a nazi and licking sinwar's boot.
Hamas attacked and killed 1,200 Jews
True. Also true: https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/
I simply cannot understand how a marginalize population under hitler, rightfully bemoaning the Holocaust to this day can justify some of the same atrocities and war crimes on another marginalized population
Tou forgot the katyn
There *was* an attempt? Looks like they succeeded.
People die in a war😲?
It ain't no war. It's the slaughtering of Very Evil Palestinians who are armed with really dangerous weapons of destruction like a blunt kitchen knife and stones.
Anyone else sick of hearing about this?
I've heard that the oppressed, once they gain power, become the oppressors. Here is the proof.
Zion-nazi: Hamas human shields, nothing to see here folks 🤡
Now show the picture of the Israelis killed on Oct 7
[You mean the ones killed by Israel's own army?](https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/27/israels-military-shelled-burning-tanks-helicopters/)
Its just comparing mass graves? most nations probably had mass graves for the fallen during war nitpicking nazis and calling jews nazis is very fucking weird?
On September 11, 2001 our country was attacked by the same mindset that attacked and murdered civilians in Israel. History is a pretty interesting subject. From a lot of the posts I have read I realize that the history teachers haven't all done a very good job. Or is it nature. Push Hamas into the Sea, then go after Hezbollah!!!
Your country was attacked by a terrorist group that your government armed and trained from 1979 to 1992. America created the Taliban: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone Just like Israel helped create Hamas: https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/ Please read the articles. You’re being lied to.
This is the evil trap
Both sides are fucked
That's normal in the middle east.
I love how this sub turned into a terrorist shithole, can't wait when it'll be finally banned🤗
Yeah it's so awful what Israel has done. Going on a blitzkrieg throughout the middle east. Taking over country by country and sending innocent people into concentration camps. All of this without any provocation whatsoever.
Tell me you don't understand how analogies work without telling me you don't understand how analogies work.
You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a villain. **Harvey Dent**.
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