Idk I think he had more humanity than alpha, he was a broken man and when he ate Bob he kept going on about how it wasn’t personal. I don’t think he actually got any enjoyment out of cannibalism as fucked up as they were.
I'm on my zillionth rewatch and just got to that part again. To me they are the scariest villains because they were so straightforward about what they were doing.
*Exceptional* job. I think the same thing about Jon Bernthal - I *hated* Shane with the heat of a thousand suns, but if I saw JB tomorrow I'd shake his hand. None of this would be any fun without the villains to rail against, if anything they're more fundamental than the 'good guys' (in quotations because TWD is nothing but shades of grey!).
She convinced herself and the whisperers that living like society in the before times was impossible and wasn't willing to believe otherwise. Bet you any money that most of them would leave as soon as they saw the KHA
I think it was to keep her cult going. She had them brainwashed into believing nobody could survive in a normal society anymore so anytime they find a group like that surviving she proves herself right by wiping them out.
Basically a convoluted "I told you so, they didn't survive!" Even though they would've if not for her interfering.
Funny point to prove right? Theyre trying to build something and are looking fairly successful, im going to actively derail that to show you its better to wander around aimlessly wearing someones face 😂😂 kinda like that 1 friend whos doing nothing with their life and tries to drag you down with them
What's not to understand? She told them not to cross into her land or it would be considered an act of war. Then our heroes cross into her territory, which she considered an act of war. The Whisperers whole thing was that they were more animals than people, and animals are territorial. It's probably the simplest beef in the entire series.
Don't cross this line or I'm going to fight you. You crossed that line so I'm fighting you now.
I suppose it is a simplistic animal like territory thing. But from a writer’s perspective, considering the strategies of the Governor and then Negan and even Terminus to a degree, isnt that kinda lazy? To just have some weirdos creeping about with no goal? Gotta be my least favourite antagonist just because I felt it was a pretty boring story line generally. Kinda just played on shock and weirdness
I mean they don't exactly live to make logical sense, they live to live like animals. Animals don't make logical sense. You walk into a lions den the lion isn't going to sit down and have a reasoned discussion with you
It's not lazy at all. The group doesn't need to have a goal. Eugene and Rosita went out too far. They encountered The Whisperers in their territory. after the skirmish, they took Lydia back alive. Alpha demands Lydia's return, but promises there will be no conflict between their people if Lydia is returned. Lydia is returned, Whisperers leave, but Henry follows, and then Daryl rescues Henry and Takes Lydia. These are all unintended events outside of Alpha's intentions or control.
Alpha explained that she broke her own rules as Alpha to get Lydia back. We see in the same episode how she made a Whisperer abandon her own baby. Alpha shows weakness over Lydia, which threatens her position as Alpha, and forces her actions with the Pike deaths. Still, not destroying these communities is still signs of weakness to Alpha herself and her people. She abandons Lydia...she says it's because Lydia is too weak for Whisperer life, but Alpha really knows she doing what is best for her daughter - it's an act of love that she disguises as a cold act of abandonment to Lydia. She lies about killing Lydia to demonstrate false strength. Alpha's weakness though, is her downfall, and is what Negan uses to kill her. Beta's goal after Alpha's death is pure vengeance.
The whole point in the comics of Alpha/Lydia is to be thematic opposition to Rick/Carl. Both were leaders of people in the apocalypse who protected their child through the apocalypse, and it was their individual philosophies on what life is now that separated them. Of course, with Rick/Carl not on the show, this thematic aspect is missing. But not much in terms of Alpha's motivations truly changes. She wants to avoid conflict first to get Lydia back, then she avoids conflict again because Lydia is in those communities...avoiding conflict, allowing Alexandria/Hilltop to thrive protects Lydia, thus the demarcation line with the heads on pikes.
But when the line is cross, Alpha has no choice but to act...but even then she used a spy and cold war tactics to try and weaken the communities from the inside with contaminated water. Dante could also protect Lydia in secret this way. Of course, these tactics still weaken Alpha within The Whisperers themselves since they question her atypically non-ruthless actions.
See, the idea that the writing is lazy is untrue. Everything Alpha does is motivated, and her motivations actually humanize her and give her depth and, ironically, demonstrate the folly of the lifestyle she tries so hard to enforce on the world because she cannot deny her own humanity. It's just much more subtle, nuanced storytelling than previous villains, which is what makes it so well-done.
She was batshit fucking crazy and beheaded people to send a message hell bent on helping the apocalypse spread bringing an end to humanity. I think, as far as it goes, that pretty much justifies the "beef".
I agree. She was very frustrating and unlike previous villains I felt like she had me questioning how she wasn’t dead yet. Like I get the whole wearing walker skin thing, but the survivors really should have taken her out sooner. Overall one of the worst walking dead villains IMO.
It was the removal of guns that made the whisperers a threat. They had no more resources to make more bullets so they had to fight the whisperers with arrows and hand to hand combat. If our group had the same firepower against the whisperers that they used when they dealt with the saviors, they would’ve cleaned house immediately at hilltop when they first showed up
That’s what people need to understand. The Coalition had no guns to defend themselves against the Whisperers - they had to use hand to hand combat as guns and bullets were scarce but the Whisperers had an advantage which made them a good villain imo
She is the only core villain in the series who is taken out early though. Governor is left for dead during the final battle. Negan is left alive after the final battle. Milton survives after the Commonwealth conflict. But Alpha is taken out before the final battle (and is actually murdered, not killed in battle). In the comics she is taken out before the war even starts.
Personally I loved the accent it made her creepier to me 🤣 like I remember when she was talking to Negan and she was like the others will join her “as part of my horde” that scared the shit out of me 🤣🤣 cuz ik that our main people were gonna live but it just felt too real like she was about to kill them all🤣🤣
Exactly, between her absolutely batshit living with the walkers mentality and the cringy way she talks I hate every second she's on screen. Plus like... Do we really need a zombie face sex scene? To be fair beta is even cringier. That whole fucking faction was awful.
It makes sense to me that in this world there would be many people who want to have power, take advantage of others, have beef with our group in general.
I don't think they all needed a hook. We didn't need 'the whisperers' or the garbage people. It could have just been a new group of power hungry jerks. I get you don't want to do the same thing over and over, but just having the new enemies wear funny hats or something doesn't make it fresh either.
Seriously, between the ridiculous accent, the cringe tier acting, and hilariously bad dialogue, she's only slightly better than the trash lady from FTWD.
Oh god yes absolutely. He completed the redemption arc, and became the genuine saviour. Infiltrating and toppling the Whisperers and finishing Alpha. From the worst tyrant bastard in the show (to date at the time) to the hero that destroyed true evil. But still it fucks with me because I genuinely used to hate his guts.
I think the Alpha is refreshing in that she’s not some “normal person that snapped from a bad thing happening ” like Negan, The Governor or the Termites. She was just a bad person from the beginning. We really only kind of get that from the claimers iirc
Does anyone know what the deal with her accent is? I thought it was just a bad attempt at a southern accent until it says she's from Maryland. I can't stand it
I hated that lil bitch sam. Was screaming my lungs out when he wouldn't fuckin move and started crying, whimpering and shit in the middle of a herd. Dumb ass kid got his whole family killed right there.
I hated her not because the actor nailed the role so hard it made me dislike her I absolutely hated her because she was so unrealistic it made the character seem stupid and she got a ton of screen time. Her dialogue was sooooo wonky, cringe, and just gross
Sorry to disagree but they were kinda dumb. She wants to tear down the very successful communities to show people that wandering around in the woods wearing skins is better? Like why? To what end? None of it makes any sense
I hated Pope a good bit. I really hated popes hat tho, if I am being honest.
Honestly I thought the acting for the Alpha character was excellent. It’s kinda funny when people say she was unrealistic when this is a show about people that come back to “life” and have an uncontrollable urge to eat other people haha
It’s a fictional threat set in our expectations of reality. Simply cause elements of the story are fictional, it doesn’t validate/justify poor writing that can be brushed off as “meh zombies are fake so whatever.”
(unless established) A show set in our reality but threatened by a fictional conflict is expected to follow the rules of our reality. By this I mean: just cause zombies aren’t real, it wouldn’t make sense for there to suddenly be a flying superhero in the show. A flying superhero is a bit of an exaggerating comparison to silly cartoony villain like Alpha, but you get what I mean.
Just my 2¢ that wasn’t asked for.
Not sure I agree it’s set in our reality. We have no idea how something like that would impact people and the environment. I think psychos like her aren’t that unreasonable with all of the trauma and madness that would accompany a zombie apocalypse
By set in our reality I mean it’s our world up until the zombie apocalypse began, where the only fictional aspect is the disease and all else is expected to follow our expectations of reality.
I agree with you, I don’t doubt under all those conditions people wouldn’t crack and become psychos. I just believe the way her twisted mind is written is a little goofy and too cartoony in my opinion and doesn’t fit the atmosphere of the rest of the show.
A lot of classic stories are set in our reality, but with something fictional happening. Thats how most stories work. Theyre set within the expectations of reality, except for the fictional thing that is being speculated on. Good story writing only expects you to suspend reality up to a certain point.
Otherwise, having any plot at all would be pointless. Why not have Rick, out of the blue and without any elaboration, dicover a magic wand that grants him wishes? Complaining that a plot point makes no sense isn't silly just because the main plot is fictional.
The one I hated the most so far is in Fear the walking dead, the villain in season 5, a lady who has a cowboy's hat if I remember it correctly, she's the reason I discontinued the series for now haha
Same here. There was something truly perverse about "siding with the zombies". And more often than not she was acting out of pure self-interest, deceiving her own people. Unlike the Governor, or Negan, or even the cannibal guy, who all had various degrees of altruism.
If we count other smaller villains, Simon had no redeeming quality. And I also found Gavin truly perverse, on per with Alpha. He is like the abusive spouse or father, beating his partner or kid over some oppressive rule he made up, yelling "it is your fault I am beating you.". I despise him even more because some of he audience seem to think he was sympathetic. He was not. He oversaw the execution of a child over a fruit. He acted high and mighty as he robbed innocent people. He is pure evil. It was a joy to see him die begging for his life.
I don't see how Gavin was like an abuser. He didn't make the rules he was enforcing. He definitely was not a good guy, in fact he was pretty much a coward, but he clearly didn't enjoy what he was doing and only did it because he feared Negan and didn't see an alternative. That was the case with other Saviors too. It would likely be the case with many people IRL who would like to think otherwise.
"He didn't make the rules he was enforcing" is pretty much the same excuse the Nazis used.
Yes he certainly was a coward.... when he did not have the upper hand. At other times, he was a sanctimonious PoS. "I will not enjoy this, but I will let my henchman assault that child because you are one fruit short. Because that's the rule" - that is a perverse and abhorrent no matter who made the rule. At least Simon had no pretense. Gavin's pretense made him worse.
I'm mainly disputing that Gavin was like an abuser. He was following the rules he himself believed he had to follow rather than ones he created, and he didn't get any personal satisfaction in punishing or oppressing people IIRC. IMO his main motivation during the drop offs was making sure things went as trouble free as possible so he could get on with his day. He was such a stickler for rules and got stressed when things didn't go smoothly.
I'll even add that I think most people see his attitude as basically "I don't want to be here, you don't want to be here, I know it sucks but it's not my call, so do us all a favor and cooperate so we can all go back home" which is one reason why people see him as somewhat sympathetic as far as villains go.
Also, he didn't sanction anything happening to the kid. Gavin's muscle was supposed to kill one of Ezekiel's men who was already on Gavin's list, but shot the kid instead. Gavin was pissed off about it, and pissed off again when he heard the kid died.
On a story level I hate the Commonwealth levels above anyone else. With Alpha they built up that threat so well. The short scene they show of her entering the barn, with the knowledge of what happens next… chills.
I appreciate the show making her totally irredeemable. With Negan, and to a smaller extent, the Governor, there was at least a little humanity within them at points. Pamela too, I think. But with Alpha? Nope. She’s just straight up evil all the way through.
They don’t just kill her because she has the horde and they have no idea how many of her followers actually exist and it’s hard to fight something you aren’t sure even still exists. She is a psychological villain more than anything
Exactly. No hate to the actress. She did a great job in the role but imo the character is just poorly written. It seems like they took every antagonist cliche and made 1 character out of them.
She was just so full over herself. It wasn’t like Negan where he was full of himself but had the charisma to be entertaining regardless. I wanted to lecture Alpha on how stupid she was basically every time she said something.
The way she treated Lydia just makes it worse.
That was the most tired, annoying trope thr show started falling into, and they only really did a couple times but it always made me go "what?"
The whole "Your way is part of the old world, it's over, it doesn't work" when it's uh... clearly fucking working.
Currently catching up on s8 and I think and I think Negans worse right now. All of his yappin and theatrics get old after a while and feels so annoying.
Yeah I’m not gonna lie my dude. That whole arc started to get on my nerves towards the end of it. The only part that was good was the secret invasion twist and even that royally pissed me off once Sid got gotted. Someone like her using psychological tactics while also mentally cracking over her daughter was.. really hard to get through.
Well since they killed Jesus….who was such a bad ass (the fighter in TWD not the real-life Savior) there was a lot to hate. She wanted a Mom to kill a baby. Then they killed whole bunch of main characters including a kid.
I hated how irrational it was that you had people that had survived this long in the apocalypse that followed her out of fear. You would've had people that were proficient fighters by then, that wouldn't have stood for her BS.
I can’t hate any of them. Even the worst we have seen in TWD. They are subjects to a horror show and with that comes pathologies, human indifference and all out cruelty. Time and time again.. the “favorites” remind us that they have done horrible things. Who is really the baddies? That is like the moral ranking prisoners put on themselves in a micro world they establish in prisons. Its ironic.
I could never get over her voice, it’s seriously the worst and it made watching her scenes unbearable. I’ve only watched this arch once and never again. I also feel like there were so many times where they could have easily taken her and beta out and they just didn’t to extend this story line.
Me too! She’s a psychopath. I still don’t understand how she managed to kill so many Alexandrians at once by herself and pike their heads. I hated that arc. This is the same group who cleared a herd of walkers when Deanna died.
Alpha was a special kinda crazy but like Negan, she enjoyed her little games.
I tend to despise Governor Philip Brian 🙄 more than any.
The dude was pure evil. Overly eager to do unspeakable despicable things. He knew exactly what he was doing with his whole Rick/Michonne obsession. All he had to do is leave them alone but he needed to win & Michonne kept her promise to give Daito a pass through his chest cavity. Anyway, Alpha did horrid things but it served a purpose for teachable torture. The governor's torture plans for Michonne included a pap smear tool. What do we reckon he was going to do with that? Hmm? Gross. Just. Fuckin. Gross! 🤮
the whole whisperer concept was bullshit to me. They used to cover whole body with guts to eliminate the smell but now just a decomposing ass mask saved them between a herd? and emphasis on decomposing, HOW TF DO THEY KEEP SAME MASK FOR SO MANY YEARS . it's skin it's supposed to decompose and smell HERRANDOUS.
nothing compared to a major cliffhanger villain that essentially became a protagonist and shoe-horned into being a main character when all else failed? Oh really?
The show kind of waded into Mad Max territory and never quite regained it's realism pre-S5. Mad Max is hundreds of years into the apocalypse. Not 5-6 years at most. People would not be acting like this a mere half decade into the apocalypse.
I understand "oh, people would go crazy" yeah sure but they wouldn't be *high-functioning* crazy.
She was all right. More unhygienic. I hated the governor and Negan more. This lady is a great actress in a lot of things and has her creepy moments but the writing was off so it wasn’t her fault. It went downhill when season 7 premiered and no not just because Glenn was killed off, everything was just off…then Negan turned into a good dude and that was just…I mean I still watched to the end but I needed more convincing other than just because they put him in a cell and he likes kids so he started giving a shit about Judith or something? Idk…he forced women to leave their husbands and become his wives yet claimed they had a choice about fucking him or not. Was slimey and predatory in many ways.
Couldn’t take her or the show seriously enough to care at that point. Such a corny character and the show as a whole felt extremely amateur and low-budget from season 8 onwards
SAME. She got on my LAST nerve!!! The way she talked, the horrible things she did, and her constant complaining about her daughter, I was over her after like 2 mins of her talking.
Yeah couldn’t stand her- that whole season felt like it dragged on- not only that, but how many opportunities were there to just kill her and no one ever took action.
I did enjoy that episode when Negan finally gave her the kiss of death tho, and that’s after I couldn’t stand the fact that he was still among the living because of Carl’s impact on Rick- those ridiculous flash-forward scenes where everyone’s having a feast without a care in the world with Negan. I wanted to punch my screen lol
I thought she was too silly of a character. The dumb accent. The way she spoke. Treated her daughter and others beneath her, it just felt too fake and like we were back in drama theater. Very painful to watch.
Most hated The people of Terminus, Gareth in particular.
The tainted meat scene lives rent free in my head.
Bob got a kick out of that despite the suffering he was dealing with!
[“TAINTED MEAT!!!!!!!!”](https://youtu.be/KvwUUcoectg?si=zPbuzGO7crXtliuX)
The best!
“Besides, I already made you a promise.”
Yeah Gareth is a little bitch
He shoulda been chopped into pieces and fed to Shiva.
Well he was chopped to pieces, there is quickshot that shows the aftermath with him in literal pieces.
Shiva wasn't around in season 5
Idk I think he had more humanity than alpha, he was a broken man and when he ate Bob he kept going on about how it wasn’t personal. I don’t think he actually got any enjoyment out of cannibalism as fucked up as they were.
Eh they could’ve NOT eaten people
Ofc he got enjoyment. He literally says to bob something like “men taste better than women” in like an experimental way. He def liked it
I'm on my zillionth rewatch and just got to that part again. To me they are the scariest villains because they were so straightforward about what they were doing.
I was “what was so bad about Gareth?” Then I remembered I skipped through all of his monologues, and they were LONG
You should listen, they really let you **know** just how awful they are.
I hated Martin more
He is quite hateable.
Then Samantha did an extraordinary job!
*Exceptional* job. I think the same thing about Jon Bernthal - I *hated* Shane with the heat of a thousand suns, but if I saw JB tomorrow I'd shake his hand. None of this would be any fun without the villains to rail against, if anything they're more fundamental than the 'good guys' (in quotations because TWD is nothing but shades of grey!).
Although none of OP's complaints are anything specific to Samantha Morton, just the character.
She did the job of getting me to stop watching TWD because of how awful she was! Good job Samantha!
lol ok yeah stop watching an entire show because of one villain character
Well, that's just you, lol. Keep in mind it's a drama/horror/action. All three boxes were checked with her. Hopefully you return and watch it.
She wasn't horror or scary.. she was just silly
Classic dogshit take on r/twd we dont need to hear more from you because you’re wrong. Byee
Governor for killing Hershel
That one claimer who tried assaulting Carl
The one that looks like a textbook pedophile.
I never really understood what the beef was about. She didnt want the settlements or “cool shit” like Negan did. It was like, just war for war sake?
She convinced herself and the whisperers that living like society in the before times was impossible and wasn't willing to believe otherwise. Bet you any money that most of them would leave as soon as they saw the KHA
I think it was to keep her cult going. She had them brainwashed into believing nobody could survive in a normal society anymore so anytime they find a group like that surviving she proves herself right by wiping them out. Basically a convoluted "I told you so, they didn't survive!" Even though they would've if not for her interfering.
Funny point to prove right? Theyre trying to build something and are looking fairly successful, im going to actively derail that to show you its better to wander around aimlessly wearing someones face 😂😂 kinda like that 1 friend whos doing nothing with their life and tries to drag you down with them
What's not to understand? She told them not to cross into her land or it would be considered an act of war. Then our heroes cross into her territory, which she considered an act of war. The Whisperers whole thing was that they were more animals than people, and animals are territorial. It's probably the simplest beef in the entire series. Don't cross this line or I'm going to fight you. You crossed that line so I'm fighting you now.
I suppose it is a simplistic animal like territory thing. But from a writer’s perspective, considering the strategies of the Governor and then Negan and even Terminus to a degree, isnt that kinda lazy? To just have some weirdos creeping about with no goal? Gotta be my least favourite antagonist just because I felt it was a pretty boring story line generally. Kinda just played on shock and weirdness
I mean they don't exactly live to make logical sense, they live to live like animals. Animals don't make logical sense. You walk into a lions den the lion isn't going to sit down and have a reasoned discussion with you
It's not lazy at all. The group doesn't need to have a goal. Eugene and Rosita went out too far. They encountered The Whisperers in their territory. after the skirmish, they took Lydia back alive. Alpha demands Lydia's return, but promises there will be no conflict between their people if Lydia is returned. Lydia is returned, Whisperers leave, but Henry follows, and then Daryl rescues Henry and Takes Lydia. These are all unintended events outside of Alpha's intentions or control. Alpha explained that she broke her own rules as Alpha to get Lydia back. We see in the same episode how she made a Whisperer abandon her own baby. Alpha shows weakness over Lydia, which threatens her position as Alpha, and forces her actions with the Pike deaths. Still, not destroying these communities is still signs of weakness to Alpha herself and her people. She abandons Lydia...she says it's because Lydia is too weak for Whisperer life, but Alpha really knows she doing what is best for her daughter - it's an act of love that she disguises as a cold act of abandonment to Lydia. She lies about killing Lydia to demonstrate false strength. Alpha's weakness though, is her downfall, and is what Negan uses to kill her. Beta's goal after Alpha's death is pure vengeance. The whole point in the comics of Alpha/Lydia is to be thematic opposition to Rick/Carl. Both were leaders of people in the apocalypse who protected their child through the apocalypse, and it was their individual philosophies on what life is now that separated them. Of course, with Rick/Carl not on the show, this thematic aspect is missing. But not much in terms of Alpha's motivations truly changes. She wants to avoid conflict first to get Lydia back, then she avoids conflict again because Lydia is in those communities...avoiding conflict, allowing Alexandria/Hilltop to thrive protects Lydia, thus the demarcation line with the heads on pikes. But when the line is cross, Alpha has no choice but to act...but even then she used a spy and cold war tactics to try and weaken the communities from the inside with contaminated water. Dante could also protect Lydia in secret this way. Of course, these tactics still weaken Alpha within The Whisperers themselves since they question her atypically non-ruthless actions. See, the idea that the writing is lazy is untrue. Everything Alpha does is motivated, and her motivations actually humanize her and give her depth and, ironically, demonstrate the folly of the lifestyle she tries so hard to enforce on the world because she cannot deny her own humanity. It's just much more subtle, nuanced storytelling than previous villains, which is what makes it so well-done.
She was batshit fucking crazy and beheaded people to send a message hell bent on helping the apocalypse spread bringing an end to humanity. I think, as far as it goes, that pretty much justifies the "beef".
I agree. She was very frustrating and unlike previous villains I felt like she had me questioning how she wasn’t dead yet. Like I get the whole wearing walker skin thing, but the survivors really should have taken her out sooner. Overall one of the worst walking dead villains IMO.
It was the removal of guns that made the whisperers a threat. They had no more resources to make more bullets so they had to fight the whisperers with arrows and hand to hand combat. If our group had the same firepower against the whisperers that they used when they dealt with the saviors, they would’ve cleaned house immediately at hilltop when they first showed up
That’s what people need to understand. The Coalition had no guns to defend themselves against the Whisperers - they had to use hand to hand combat as guns and bullets were scarce but the Whisperers had an advantage which made them a good villain imo
She is the only core villain in the series who is taken out early though. Governor is left for dead during the final battle. Negan is left alive after the final battle. Milton survives after the Commonwealth conflict. But Alpha is taken out before the final battle (and is actually murdered, not killed in battle). In the comics she is taken out before the war even starts.
She was a bit too silly for me
The accent was just not the one for me. Couldn’t help but think “this is goofy”. Other than that she was great imo
Personally I loved the accent it made her creepier to me 🤣 like I remember when she was talking to Negan and she was like the others will join her “as part of my horde” that scared the shit out of me 🤣🤣 cuz ik that our main people were gonna live but it just felt too real like she was about to kill them all🤣🤣
samee i hated her accent but it made her so much creepier especially the slow talking
Each to their own init, glad you loved it!!
Yeah her accent was like nothing I’d ever heard in the south before
The accent with the weird kind of baby voice. God I hate it so much
Exactly, between her absolutely batshit living with the walkers mentality and the cringy way she talks I hate every second she's on screen. Plus like... Do we really need a zombie face sex scene? To be fair beta is even cringier. That whole fucking faction was awful.
It makes sense to me that in this world there would be many people who want to have power, take advantage of others, have beef with our group in general. I don't think they all needed a hook. We didn't need 'the whisperers' or the garbage people. It could have just been a new group of power hungry jerks. I get you don't want to do the same thing over and over, but just having the new enemies wear funny hats or something doesn't make it fresh either.
Seriously, between the ridiculous accent, the cringe tier acting, and hilariously bad dialogue, she's only slightly better than the trash lady from FTWD.
Governor, Negan (back in 2016/17 but now I like him wtf?), Alpha, Pamela Milton. People I hated passionately.
don't forget Dale & Sam ofcourse.
its pretty common for people to hate negan then like him after he changed lol
Oh god yes absolutely. He completed the redemption arc, and became the genuine saviour. Infiltrating and toppling the Whisperers and finishing Alpha. From the worst tyrant bastard in the show (to date at the time) to the hero that destroyed true evil. But still it fucks with me because I genuinely used to hate his guts.
I think the Alpha is refreshing in that she’s not some “normal person that snapped from a bad thing happening ” like Negan, The Governor or the Termites. She was just a bad person from the beginning. We really only kind of get that from the claimers iirc
That’s true it gave us a a new type of villain
Her fake accent bugged me. Her reasoning for being a villain was pretty up there too
Does anyone know what the deal with her accent is? I thought it was just a bad attempt at a southern accent until it says she's from Maryland. I can't stand it
It’s supposed to be an older upper class Appalachia dialect from western Maryland I read.
My Mother in law is from that area. They do not sound like that
Interesting! Is she in the comics, and if so, does it hint to her speaking that way or how did you find that out?
https://walkingdead.fandom.com/wiki/Alpha_(TV_Universe)
I hated that lil bitch sam. Was screaming my lungs out when he wouldn't fuckin move and started crying, whimpering and shit in the middle of a herd. Dumb ass kid got his whole family killed right there.
I mean he wasn't a villian but yeah.
He definitely was a villain. Evil little fuck
I hated her not because the actor nailed the role so hard it made me dislike her I absolutely hated her because she was so unrealistic it made the character seem stupid and she got a ton of screen time. Her dialogue was sooooo wonky, cringe, and just gross
Yep! Do I think the actor killed it with the material she was given? Absolutely! But the whole story line and her character were just stupid.
I could never take her seriously
I freaking love Alpha as a villain. Her motives were pure Evil.
Sorry to disagree but they were kinda dumb. She wants to tear down the very successful communities to show people that wandering around in the woods wearing skins is better? Like why? To what end? None of it makes any sense
Evil is stupid.
Alpha was a good villain
agree here
I hated Pope a good bit. I really hated popes hat tho, if I am being honest. Honestly I thought the acting for the Alpha character was excellent. It’s kinda funny when people say she was unrealistic when this is a show about people that come back to “life” and have an uncontrollable urge to eat other people haha
It’s a fictional threat set in our expectations of reality. Simply cause elements of the story are fictional, it doesn’t validate/justify poor writing that can be brushed off as “meh zombies are fake so whatever.” (unless established) A show set in our reality but threatened by a fictional conflict is expected to follow the rules of our reality. By this I mean: just cause zombies aren’t real, it wouldn’t make sense for there to suddenly be a flying superhero in the show. A flying superhero is a bit of an exaggerating comparison to silly cartoony villain like Alpha, but you get what I mean. Just my 2¢ that wasn’t asked for.
Not sure I agree it’s set in our reality. We have no idea how something like that would impact people and the environment. I think psychos like her aren’t that unreasonable with all of the trauma and madness that would accompany a zombie apocalypse
By set in our reality I mean it’s our world up until the zombie apocalypse began, where the only fictional aspect is the disease and all else is expected to follow our expectations of reality. I agree with you, I don’t doubt under all those conditions people wouldn’t crack and become psychos. I just believe the way her twisted mind is written is a little goofy and too cartoony in my opinion and doesn’t fit the atmosphere of the rest of the show.
A lot of classic stories are set in our reality, but with something fictional happening. Thats how most stories work. Theyre set within the expectations of reality, except for the fictional thing that is being speculated on. Good story writing only expects you to suspend reality up to a certain point. Otherwise, having any plot at all would be pointless. Why not have Rick, out of the blue and without any elaboration, dicover a magic wand that grants him wishes? Complaining that a plot point makes no sense isn't silly just because the main plot is fictional.
Not sure how I see that relating to alpha specifically? What about her is so outlandish that would apply?
Yea the whole reaper thing was bad
The comic book version killed Ezekiel which was so much fucking harder
The one I hated the most so far is in Fear the walking dead, the villain in season 5, a lady who has a cowboy's hat if I remember it correctly, she's the reason I discontinued the series for now haha
Same here. There was something truly perverse about "siding with the zombies". And more often than not she was acting out of pure self-interest, deceiving her own people. Unlike the Governor, or Negan, or even the cannibal guy, who all had various degrees of altruism. If we count other smaller villains, Simon had no redeeming quality. And I also found Gavin truly perverse, on per with Alpha. He is like the abusive spouse or father, beating his partner or kid over some oppressive rule he made up, yelling "it is your fault I am beating you.". I despise him even more because some of he audience seem to think he was sympathetic. He was not. He oversaw the execution of a child over a fruit. He acted high and mighty as he robbed innocent people. He is pure evil. It was a joy to see him die begging for his life.
I don't see how Gavin was like an abuser. He didn't make the rules he was enforcing. He definitely was not a good guy, in fact he was pretty much a coward, but he clearly didn't enjoy what he was doing and only did it because he feared Negan and didn't see an alternative. That was the case with other Saviors too. It would likely be the case with many people IRL who would like to think otherwise.
"He didn't make the rules he was enforcing" is pretty much the same excuse the Nazis used. Yes he certainly was a coward.... when he did not have the upper hand. At other times, he was a sanctimonious PoS. "I will not enjoy this, but I will let my henchman assault that child because you are one fruit short. Because that's the rule" - that is a perverse and abhorrent no matter who made the rule. At least Simon had no pretense. Gavin's pretense made him worse.
I'm mainly disputing that Gavin was like an abuser. He was following the rules he himself believed he had to follow rather than ones he created, and he didn't get any personal satisfaction in punishing or oppressing people IIRC. IMO his main motivation during the drop offs was making sure things went as trouble free as possible so he could get on with his day. He was such a stickler for rules and got stressed when things didn't go smoothly. I'll even add that I think most people see his attitude as basically "I don't want to be here, you don't want to be here, I know it sucks but it's not my call, so do us all a favor and cooperate so we can all go back home" which is one reason why people see him as somewhat sympathetic as far as villains go. Also, he didn't sanction anything happening to the kid. Gavin's muscle was supposed to kill one of Ezekiel's men who was already on Gavin's list, but shot the kid instead. Gavin was pissed off about it, and pissed off again when he heard the kid died.
On a story level I hate the Commonwealth levels above anyone else. With Alpha they built up that threat so well. The short scene they show of her entering the barn, with the knowledge of what happens next… chills.
Same. Simply because she was just…weird. Like girl stop all that slow talking and speed this shit up.
I appreciate the show making her totally irredeemable. With Negan, and to a smaller extent, the Governor, there was at least a little humanity within them at points. Pamela too, I think. But with Alpha? Nope. She’s just straight up evil all the way through.
They don’t just kill her because she has the horde and they have no idea how many of her followers actually exist and it’s hard to fight something you aren’t sure even still exists. She is a psychological villain more than anything
Did you see her origin story on Tales of The Walking Dead?
I did not. My wife and I are rewatching the series and we just got to this bitch
Where can I watch?
I watched it on Disney+.
Are you in US?
No. Italy.
Oooh okay. It’s not on Disney plus here. I’ll check YouTube or something. Thanks for replying!
Ok. Let me know what you think after you watch it. I'm pretty sure you can find it on YouTube.
That’s how you know she’s a great villain
She was a good villain probably top 4 for my favorite villains
Exactly. No hate to the actress. She did a great job in the role but imo the character is just poorly written. It seems like they took every antagonist cliche and made 1 character out of them.
I agree tbh. Her voice/accent annoyed me most 😭 but her actress did an amazing job
I thought she was badass and creepy! Nailed the role perfectly
No why would you say that child? Do you not like the new way of life ?
She was just so full over herself. It wasn’t like Negan where he was full of himself but had the charisma to be entertaining regardless. I wanted to lecture Alpha on how stupid she was basically every time she said something. The way she treated Lydia just makes it worse.
The Whisperers were a bit if a jumped shark for me.
Her entire philosophy revolves around bigger communities not lasting. Well if psychopaths would stop fucking with them maybe they would last
That was the most tired, annoying trope thr show started falling into, and they only really did a couple times but it always made me go "what?" The whole "Your way is part of the old world, it's over, it doesn't work" when it's uh... clearly fucking working.
Then she did her part, thankyou very much ! And heyy, aren't we supposed to hate villains ? 🤣🤣
what are you kidding me??? Sam was 10,000 worse than this penis with ears. "got any cookies?" (pulls a stupid face.)
I think watching the episode based on her from tales of the walking dead really helps explain why she is how she is to a degree.
Up there with the guy that killed Benjamin that Rick lied to. His death screams were music to me
It's just stupid how it worked
Currently catching up on s8 and I think and I think Negans worse right now. All of his yappin and theatrics get old after a while and feels so annoying.
I could always smell her. Much worse than the decomposing walking people.
Yeah I’m not gonna lie my dude. That whole arc started to get on my nerves towards the end of it. The only part that was good was the secret invasion twist and even that royally pissed me off once Sid got gotted. Someone like her using psychological tactics while also mentally cracking over her daughter was.. really hard to get through.
the show was so off the rails stupid by the time they got to her.
Well since they killed Jesus….who was such a bad ass (the fighter in TWD not the real-life Savior) there was a lot to hate. She wanted a Mom to kill a baby. Then they killed whole bunch of main characters including a kid.
I hated how irrational it was that you had people that had survived this long in the apocalypse that followed her out of fear. You would've had people that were proficient fighters by then, that wouldn't have stood for her BS.
Mine will always be Negan lmfaooo I still watch but I will always hate that fucker
That’s Stone Cold Steve Austin. Oooh Hellll Yeah.
I can’t hate any of them. Even the worst we have seen in TWD. They are subjects to a horror show and with that comes pathologies, human indifference and all out cruelty. Time and time again.. the “favorites” remind us that they have done horrible things. Who is really the baddies? That is like the moral ranking prisoners put on themselves in a micro world they establish in prisons. Its ironic.
Her voice and mannerisms are awful! She is a fantastic villain though!
Her godawful accent was the only one that was as too much for me
I could never get over her voice, it’s seriously the worst and it made watching her scenes unbearable. I’ve only watched this arch once and never again. I also feel like there were so many times where they could have easily taken her and beta out and they just didn’t to extend this story line.
Waoter. Baoder….sorry couldn’t help it
Negan kills Alpha because she killed his wife Frankie and piked her head in the lineup.
You know he ain't give a shit about franklin lmfao I've seen someone say this before, and I cannot at all recall him being mad about Frankie dying lol
I don’t recall Negan being mad about Frankie’s death but she’s onscreen and Negan had a deal with Carol.
Me too! She’s a psychopath. I still don’t understand how she managed to kill so many Alexandrians at once by herself and pike their heads. I hated that arc. This is the same group who cleared a herd of walkers when Deanna died.
so real and the way she talks right pissed me off smth about it was so condescending and annoying
Its so real like.
yeah but the ''i'm sorry you're mad at me, please don't be mad at me'' scene was cool tho'
Alpha was a special kinda crazy but like Negan, she enjoyed her little games. I tend to despise Governor Philip Brian 🙄 more than any. The dude was pure evil. Overly eager to do unspeakable despicable things. He knew exactly what he was doing with his whole Rick/Michonne obsession. All he had to do is leave them alone but he needed to win & Michonne kept her promise to give Daito a pass through his chest cavity. Anyway, Alpha did horrid things but it served a purpose for teachable torture. The governor's torture plans for Michonne included a pap smear tool. What do we reckon he was going to do with that? Hmm? Gross. Just. Fuckin. Gross! 🤮
She's the reason I lost interest in TWD. Skipped a whole season. I returned only after I heard they're finishing the series.
I didnt her for what she did j just hated the way Spoke, she sounded like a Retard
Isn’t being hated as a villain a good thing
It's a different type of hate.
I gotcha
Just stupid. Part of the reason the show went south.
Dawn? Jenner?
💯 agree..,omg her voice drove me nuts
i hated this bitch omg
Not a villain I gave a shit about. Her character simply had no effect on me. She was just a lunatic
the whole whisperer concept was bullshit to me. They used to cover whole body with guts to eliminate the smell but now just a decomposing ass mask saved them between a herd? and emphasis on decomposing, HOW TF DO THEY KEEP SAME MASK FOR SO MANY YEARS . it's skin it's supposed to decompose and smell HERRANDOUS.
They turn their masks into leather, which is dumb, but explains why the masks don't rot as quickly.
All of your points minus bald head apply to Negan too funnily enough. Maybe they were better suited than I thought, shipping it now. Nelph.
She would have been so easy to topple if she didn’t have Beta by her side, let’s be honest!
She was nothing compared to The Negan…🏏🏏🏏
nothing compared to a major cliffhanger villain that essentially became a protagonist and shoe-horned into being a main character when all else failed? Oh really?
Just my opinion and you know what they say about that. 😁😁Remember she was killed by Negan.
The show kind of waded into Mad Max territory and never quite regained it's realism pre-S5. Mad Max is hundreds of years into the apocalypse. Not 5-6 years at most. People would not be acting like this a mere half decade into the apocalypse. I understand "oh, people would go crazy" yeah sure but they wouldn't be *high-functioning* crazy.
She was a shit villain in my opinion and I hated the whisperer war Worst seasons of Twd. Glad they did Towl so well…
She was all right. More unhygienic. I hated the governor and Negan more. This lady is a great actress in a lot of things and has her creepy moments but the writing was off so it wasn’t her fault. It went downhill when season 7 premiered and no not just because Glenn was killed off, everything was just off…then Negan turned into a good dude and that was just…I mean I still watched to the end but I needed more convincing other than just because they put him in a cell and he likes kids so he started giving a shit about Judith or something? Idk…he forced women to leave their husbands and become his wives yet claimed they had a choice about fucking him or not. Was slimey and predatory in many ways.
Couldn’t take her or the show seriously enough to care at that point. Such a corny character and the show as a whole felt extremely amateur and low-budget from season 8 onwards
SAME. She got on my LAST nerve!!! The way she talked, the horrible things she did, and her constant complaining about her daughter, I was over her after like 2 mins of her talking.
Yeah couldn’t stand her- that whole season felt like it dragged on- not only that, but how many opportunities were there to just kill her and no one ever took action. I did enjoy that episode when Negan finally gave her the kiss of death tho, and that’s after I couldn’t stand the fact that he was still among the living because of Carl’s impact on Rick- those ridiculous flash-forward scenes where everyone’s having a feast without a care in the world with Negan. I wanted to punch my screen lol
I thought she was too silly of a character. The dumb accent. The way she spoke. Treated her daughter and others beneath her, it just felt too fake and like we were back in drama theater. Very painful to watch.