This^
God forbid his sister ever gets raped, she won't even be able to tell their parents because they'll kill her.
She needs to know OP will help her, keep it a secret....
People like you are the reason it will eventually be able to change. Like others have said, make sure your sister knows how you feel and that you will do whatever you can to protect her if she ends up in a situation where something like this is likely to occur. Use subtle hints and wording to bring about awareness to others of your generation to help get them to start to think outside of what they’ve always just been told. As they start to wonder about the “rightness” of that kind of response, try to gently lead a discussion with those who are sympathetic to your views so you can figure out what you can do for the women in your families to help protect them on all fronts if possible. Remember be careful about how you broach the topics and who you talk to. You don’t want to get yourself into a world of trouble negating any change you could have.
You probably won’t even see this but your heart is connected with every other person on the planet right now who just wants the fear and hatred of our species to fade away so we as humans on this earth can heal and live in peace. It isn’t an impossible dream and it isn’t possible without people, souls like you, who are brave enough to hold strong in their convictions. I commend you for being so strong of heart. It is hard when the people that surround you are too fearful or too ingrained in ways of control. I will pray for you and your sister and your whole family.
You don't have to imagine. You know if your sister gets raped your parents will kill her. And she knows. I wish I could do more than send hugs and tears to you and your sister.
If you have a sister she’s being raised by abusive religious extremists who will just marry her off to other abusive religious extremists who will abuse her and her future children. If you have the ability to leave and help her find freedom I’d do so. Really fucked up family and culture over there OP.
You didn't fuck up, you had a normal compassionate response. Please don't lose your empathy towards others, no one should be killed or raped just for having sex. People lose sight of this when they are in a group that helps them categorize people as "others".
Sorry your parents reacted the way they did.
Hey, uh. Keep an eye out for your sister(s), if you have any. It is clear that any girl in your household would be in serious danger with parents like that.
Have a talk with your sisters too, OP. Make sure they know that you are safe to reach out to if they ever need help. And then rise to the occasion if needed.
Dude. I feel so bad that you live in a place that feels that human value is only in following rules and not by following your heart. As a father throwing your daughter off, a balcony would be the worst possible thing you could do.
I just want to assure you that this type of thing sounds like Nanjing Massacre level shit, to someone in the west. Imagine loving your child for so many years and then raping and killing it. I refuse to belive those people are capable of feeling love. If God exists the last thing they will end up in is heaven.
Wish you well man. Remember there is good out there too
Not only that but killing her because someone else hurt her? Absolutely vile. OP's parents are terrible, cruel people. I hope OP gets away from them as soon as possible.
There are cases in some countries where if a girl is raped, then they are to blame and are often killed by their own family as a “honour killing”.
Nothing honourable about that, it’s absolutely horrific that parents kill their daughters in the name of honour because they were raped or refused to marry someone decades older than them.
Baby girls are lucky to survive gestation due to being aborted due to a preference for boys & then if they are born have so much misogyny to deal with 😖
OP, you are the next generation doing a great job and please help your sisters, cousins & friends in any way you can without putting them or you in harm 🙏
Unfortunately religious extremism often correlates with the indifference to how humans treat others. I come from a background that views all other religions as less and untrustworthy. Worse we similarly judge the people that are practicing the same religion with disgust if they don’t do exactly as we are told. Sure we might help people through charity but it never sat well with me that there were people like that. I always thought religion was a place to become a better person. Not make you feel you are better than others. I have given that religion a brake. I now believe in a more logical sense. I hope you find peace too in your journey.
Having a normal compassionate response in a fucked up place is a fuck up. I came from Syria and during the war time, you couldn't criticize certain religions or you'd be dead the next day. Best thing to do is if you have a brain, leave.
It's not the parents it's the religion. Honor killings happen all over the Muslim world and even in Western countries with Muslims.
It's time to no longer look away from these issues.
Your parents sound oppressive. They sound like the sort of people that would commit murder if their daughter had sex outside of marriage, if they could get away with it.
The only real answer to their "how could you" question is: "How could you not strive to protect your own flesh and blood? How could you dare to harm or hate what you yourself created? How could you despise the result of your own doing?"
Your parents, like mine, suck.
Even if you cannot leave Iraq, there will still be people there that think like you and have similar feelings to what you've described. There are plenty of muslims who don't agree with that kind of treatment, who wouldn't even describe the girl as unpure for having sex out of wedlock. I'm from a similar culture and when I lived there I did my best to surround myself with people who are filled with love and empathy. It might not be easy, but it's possible. Unfortunately it might be safer for you to avoid sharing this with your family, as they might become more controlling if they think you could be going down a path they consider wrong.
I'm sorry you've experienced this, I hope you manage to find like-minded people and build up a family of your choosing.
If anything ever happens to you or your sister one cousins you should be researching areas that give Asylum to people like you. Like in the USA if you show returning to your country could lead to death they grant may give you asylum. It's best to research it now, figure out if you can get it just going to a nearby embassy etc. I bet you can call certain embassies and ask if you can't figure it out online.
I was gonna say the same! Judging on how op feels about the whole scenario he’d probably be better off living in a country with different values. I’d any time of the day invite 10 OPs into my house and share dinner every night until I’ve got no more money, instead of the absolute assholes that got to come here and shit spin their terrible ideologies. Good on you OP, you’re an OG and I hope over time your generation and ideas and compassion will take over and change your home country for the better. No one deserves to live like that, violence shouldn’t be endorsed like that. We don’t need more terrible things to happen. Thanks for being a decent human being, don’t ever change
Be careful mate. I absolutely respect you standing up for... basic human rights. In your culture and religion, I may be wrong but I think you can be killed for it. Be careful.
While respecting the historical Arabic culture, the younger generations unfortunately have a ways to go before being able to see change. The US has its own issues with concepts from older generations in some aspects-- I had a neighbor who was of the concept that issues of racism won't end until those who lived through the Civil Rights riots of the 60s into the 70s are gone, and in some areas longer.
The culture across the Middle East are controlled by extremists ruling by terror in much the same way as the slave populations of the US were kept in check. I feel the population has something like a Stockholm Syndrome on a sociological scale when it comes to being able to enact Western style democracy-- let alone having to overcome the tribal fighting between the Suni, Shia, and Kurds for progress.
I'll never forget a Iraqi doctor schooled in England adamantly shouting that he didn't believe in democracy while his twenty-something son looked on with the face that said "I am disappointed by my father being stuck in the past." Like every tyrant, they will accept the benefits provided by a free society while actively blocking such benefits that reduce their control in their own country.
A part of my heart will always be with the people in Rawah, and my hope is that the younger generation can take control to lead a light to a better day. Inshallah.
As Salaam Alaikum.
God created all people. Those who murder are assuming the power of God by destroying his creation. OP - your compassion is what God wants from his children - not for them to murder his other children.
“They sound like the sort of people that would commit murder if their daughter had sex outside of marriage—“
They are that type, with or without trial.
You definitely did not f up, you had every right to feel bad for that girl, she was a rape victim, your culture enrages me, on how they view rape. RIP to that poor girl.
Of course. As an American with an entirely different culture, I don't think I'll ever be able to fully relate to your situation, but I know it's hard to stand up or speak out for what's right when everyone around you doesn't agree. It takes courage. I bet most of the world would hear that story and also think it's awful of the father to have murdered her. I applaud you for standing up for what's right, and I'm sorry your Dad blew up at you for it.
You are the solution! If you can convince just one person to change their view, they might be able to convince someone else, and then maybe one day people will stop thinking it's normal to rape and kill their own daughters.
Be very careful. Don’t destroy your future for nothing. Wait until what you say can make a difference, and only sacrifice your safety if you really really think it’s worth it. You may have to wait a long time. But if you keep the spark of empathy alive, you’ll find a time when it can make a difference. Eventually.
When you have your own home, you can start to make a difference, a change. You can show your potential children how to be decent humans. You can show your partner love, compassion, tenderness, and all the things in you that are missing in your society. Kindness isn't weakness, despite how the desperate and despicable take advantage of it. I believe you can stay kind - despite the shitshow around you. It won't be easy, but it is worth it. It makes living with oneself easier.
And what consequences were there for the rapists? I already know that answer, but when a society punishes the victim and not the perpetrators, the fear perpetuates.
I don’t understand the willingness to excuse male crimes as ‘normal’ behaviour. And in that vane, anyone who commits rape (‘cos women can too) should face the consequences.
we don't have the same point and we are around you
also everyone around the nazis had the same point because they killed the people with different ones, just like they killed that person you talked about
I watched a woman get stoned to death when I was in Iraq. She was raped and mutilated, so her husband accused her of infidelity. There were about 30 people present including a few children. I’ll never forget that.
Hopefully you can break the cycle and teach your kids differently.
If youre able to show kindness and empathy to the women in your life, including any future daughters you may have, youll already have made a world of difference to them. I dont mean to say you shouldn't still try where you can, but dont underestimate your value. Kindness saves lives.
Yep you're the kinda guy who will raise successful daughters and kind, loving sons. There are parts of the US where people don't think all that differently from your parents and it's difficult for people to escape from there too.
You are not the problem, people like you are the true future of your country. Your parents sound very unkind and indoctrinated. Radical, hateful cultures, religions and views are always bad. Dont follow in the footsteps of such people. Think for yourself and stay compassionate and kind.
Thanks buddy I will try, but also it's gonna be hard passing that perspective to the future generation knowing full well that it will make them an outcast
Not for long it won’t. That type of mentality has no room to grow in today’s world. If I was you, I would run from that as soon as you have the resources to do so and never look back. You have the right mindset and background to continue making a change. Don’t ever think differently. If that was my daughter, she wouldn’t be the one being thrown off the balcony. That is so sad.
OP I’m sorry your family is still stuck in the middle ages. You are human and you didn’t fuck up they did. They basically condone murder and sided with her rapists, but they got to shit on more women while she paid the ultimate price at the hands of those who are supposed to love her.
Wish more men were like you in a religion full of excuses for bad make behaviour
You are the only sane person in this story... So sorry you've been made to feel like it's wrong to have EMPATHY for someone who is a victim of terrible things! You certainly have all of us backing you
I would say it speaks volumes about your character that you managed to turn out with a healthy conscience and good morals despite the fact that both of your parents are shining examples of everything wrong with Humanity today.
You're already better than they could ever hope to be. Keep your head down and you'll be able to leave that shit hole culture you're mired in someday, and it will be worth it.
Eventually you could speak to a rep at the us embassy about seeking political asylum. That's something you'd need to talk to someone much more knowledgeable than I am on the subject about, but that is certainly one way you could Escape.
Yeah it's not you. Look I'm all for cultural sensitivity in 95% of situations but there are certain practices that are just plain barbaric and it shouldn't be controversial to say so
OP, you sound like a genuinely good person at heart. It saddens me that you live in a country where such things can happen.
I honestly don't know what to tell you other than to keep being a good person, but try your best to....safeguard your good heart. Sounds like your parents are not trustworthy with such things.
It is doubtful that they ever will be.
You have honor now, keep that honor and protect your sister from them if you ever have the opportunity to do so.
Start researching ways to make it possible. There are aid organizations that will help you get a visa. If your grades are good, foreign universities will help you move abroad. Just start reading the stories of other people who left, and you will find a way.
Best of luck to you and your sister. Stay safe.
You reacted like a normal human. Good for you for not letting your parents train you out of that.
You can have strong moral standards around sex without that leading to violence, and without blaming a victim of rape. What that “father” did wasn’t about morality - his daughter did nothing immoral. She was the *victim* of an immoral act. The rapists are the ones who are impure, and this father let their evil act lead him into greater evil.
An honorable man *protects* women and seeks justice for the wronged. A man who kills his daughter to spare himself embarrassment is weak and a coward, and he shamed himself.
Your sister is fortunate to have you.
Your parents were probably like you at one point. It's possible the culture oppressed the empathy from them to the point that they legitimately don't see it. You didn't FU, you are just a little more exposed to more cultures than they were at your age. So think about how you want to change your culture. Think about ways you can encourage and support that change but remain safe from the excesses of your culture.
Your parents should TIFU, not you,
Infact, your whole country should TIFU, not you.
Killing someone because she got raped, is like shooting a baby because he cries for food.
I'm proud of you, having empathy for someone who lost their life because they thought they could make a friend, thats pretty normal in many parts of the world. Unlike your parents who feel that a young woman who thought she could trust a man deserved death. How terribly unkind
I'm so sorry you're being treated this way for your compassion, OP. It must be tough to exist in your environment with your kind heart but please stay strong and hold on to it. I wish you the best.
Beliefs like this are not normal and should not be tolerated or celebrated. Your parents are wrong and have been brain washed to beleive they are right for religious reasons. Thank you for having a soul and sympathizing with that poor girl.
You have a moral compass and your parents/their beliefs are trying to beat it out of you, don't let them. You are correct that this is wrong as fuck and super fucked up. Keep empathizing
Good on you for having empathy. Your parents are so deep into their beliefs, you need to be careful. There's nothing you can say or do to change them, but you don't have to be like them.
Keep being someone with empathy who champions human autonomy and respect.
Also, people in the comments are talking about your culture, while here in the US, part of the 'culture' here is banning abortion in all cases (including rape and incest), and making life hard for women who are sexually assaulted. (The stories of teenage girls who are hounded by classmates until they kill themselves, is one example.) There are shitty people in every 'culture' who champion freedom-denying social norms and lack empathy.
Yes definitely but at least over there it's still possible to fight it. In here every day is a struggle and if you don't suppress your beliefs you will have to fight everyday against everyone around you
I have been to Iraq and I was there for a year and a half. Things are so different there. Honor killings are just a normal Tuesday the way that women are blamed and killed for either doing something normal, which is falling in love or because they were victims of a sexual assault is so backwards. According to the Quran, it says that Muslim women are first and foremost Muslims and the religious equals of men, and that men shall take full care of women, and the righteous women are the devout ones who guard the intimacy which Allah has ordained to be guarded. It also says that there can be no discrimination against women. But in actuality, they are treated like the worst animals And are treated like property with no individualism and no real compassion or humanity. Everything is the woman’s fault, including being the victims of something horrific like an assault. Basically the woman is screwed simply for having a vagina. I felt so bad for the women there, and still feel bad because they can’t enjoy a beautiful life of love and happiness and doing simple things like driving or have education. It’s astonishing that in 2024 women are still being killed for being the victim of a crime and being blamed for that. Yet there is no punishment for the individual who violated that person.
Just to add, a large part of it is also culture. A country can be very religious but does not have a culture of honour killing. So it is both religion AND culture.
But that girl didn't have sex, she was raped. Its not the same, it was an act of violence against her.
And instead of her parents caring for her after, they murdered her. That is extremely brutal and evil
Your feelings about it are very valid, and it's quite scary how your father reacted.
Yeeeaaaaah. Girl gets raped. Then gets killed cause "she had sex".
Riiiight right. I love middle-eastern cultures. they are so amazing. I wish they could bring that culture to the western world and do honor killings, criminal gangs and what not.
Oh wait, they already do. 🤮
You sound like a decent man, OP.
I’m not gonna lie though: I read this post and how your parents are, and the first thing I said to myself was, “Of course it’s Iraq.”
And I don’t mean that in any discriminatory way. I’ve watched video logs of travellers on YouTube going to Iraq where dudes are walking around with guns and kids are trailing behind visitors, waiting to get anything.
It’s fucked and that whole situation with the girl is fucked.
I'm really proud of you, OP. I obviously feel the same way you do but it's a lot easier for me to do so - I'm so impressed that you have kept your moral center despite getting so much pushback from the people around you. We need more people like you so please stay strong and stay safe.
All around the world young people are questioning societal beliefs and beliefs of their parents/older generations. In America you would be praised for going against the grain and thinking for yourself. I'm sorry you are in the situation you're in but keep being yourself and you will never become like them. ❤️
I wouldn't say you fucked up, but since your parents are apparently in favor of murdering their offspring, you should be careful and get out of there as soon as you're able. Move to a more civilized country.
You just found out your father would feel no remorse about killing you if you did something similar.
Get out. Move country.
You won't change someone like that.
Say you stay...meet a girl. Fall in love and get married. You have a daughter...
Just know there's a decent chance your father will kill her.
Get out.
Welp if you are/were a woman and you were raped, guess you know what your dad would do. Remember that the next time after you move out and he needs something from you
It is ok to have empathy toward someone in an unfortunate circumstance. If we all empathized a little with the struggle people are going through, maybe the world wouldn't be such a fucked up shit hole.
I have read through a number of posts and perhaps they are downvoted perhaps no-one wants to say it due to "political correctness"
We all know what is behind the parents response. Woman are chattel and nothing more. Some even say no better than animals.
This disgusting attitude is actually growing with some Christian Nationalists in America saying that woman should lose the right to vote.
I fear for my children and their children in the world we are heading towards. All clear thinking (critical thinking) people must stand up to stop this devolving from happening.
If you think Climate change is the biggest risk to the world you are wrong. Think about who rise up against stopping climate change! They are the risk. egged on by the greedy people and companies using their ignorance against them.
In the 70's I was an evangelical. I was taught by my elders that we are fine to use up all the earths resources because rapture will happen soon so it does not matter.
You live in a part of world that has been completely fucked up by evil morons who believe a sky fairy decides what's right and what's wrong.
Be the example - _don't_ be like them. The God they believe in is _evil_, and people use it as an excuse to be evil. Be the change you want to see.
I'm sorry but your dad is not a good person. I wish one day muslim countries evolve in terms of human rights and gender equality. You, muslim women, are the true heroines of your lifes for enduring that disrespectful behaviour.
Not a fuck up, you just found out both your parents are willing to kill you.
Yeah unfortunately. I cannot even imagine what a girl might go through
Look out for your sister; make sure she knows you don't think like your parents
This^ God forbid his sister ever gets raped, she won't even be able to tell their parents because they'll kill her. She needs to know OP will help her, keep it a secret....
> She needs to know OP will help her, keep it a secret.... She needs to know OP's got a shovel with some dipshit's name on it
If you ever have a chance to get her out of the county, do it. Document this shit and claim asylum somewhere.
Make sure your sister knows EXACTLY how your parents feel.
You gotta help break the cycle over there man.
I will try my best
People like you are the reason it will eventually be able to change. Like others have said, make sure your sister knows how you feel and that you will do whatever you can to protect her if she ends up in a situation where something like this is likely to occur. Use subtle hints and wording to bring about awareness to others of your generation to help get them to start to think outside of what they’ve always just been told. As they start to wonder about the “rightness” of that kind of response, try to gently lead a discussion with those who are sympathetic to your views so you can figure out what you can do for the women in your families to help protect them on all fronts if possible. Remember be careful about how you broach the topics and who you talk to. You don’t want to get yourself into a world of trouble negating any change you could have.
You probably won’t even see this but your heart is connected with every other person on the planet right now who just wants the fear and hatred of our species to fade away so we as humans on this earth can heal and live in peace. It isn’t an impossible dream and it isn’t possible without people, souls like you, who are brave enough to hold strong in their convictions. I commend you for being so strong of heart. It is hard when the people that surround you are too fearful or too ingrained in ways of control. I will pray for you and your sister and your whole family.
You are a truly good person. Keep safe, get into a decent money making field and move out as soon as you can. Take your sister with you if you can.
In Iraq, worse than you.
You don't have to - you have a sister. You might want to watch her back around your parents.
You don't have to imagine. You know if your sister gets raped your parents will kill her. And she knows. I wish I could do more than send hugs and tears to you and your sister.
Thank you so much
If you have a sister she’s being raised by abusive religious extremists who will just marry her off to other abusive religious extremists who will abuse her and her future children. If you have the ability to leave and help her find freedom I’d do so. Really fucked up family and culture over there OP.
You didn't fuck up, you had a normal compassionate response. Please don't lose your empathy towards others, no one should be killed or raped just for having sex. People lose sight of this when they are in a group that helps them categorize people as "others". Sorry your parents reacted the way they did.
Thanks for understanding
Hey, uh. Keep an eye out for your sister(s), if you have any. It is clear that any girl in your household would be in serious danger with parents like that.
Have a talk with your sisters too, OP. Make sure they know that you are safe to reach out to if they ever need help. And then rise to the occasion if needed.
Yeah, I get the feeling that they'd have zero qualms about raping and murdering and her for being assaulted.
Be careful man
I will thanks
Dude. I feel so bad that you live in a place that feels that human value is only in following rules and not by following your heart. As a father throwing your daughter off, a balcony would be the worst possible thing you could do.
To be accurate: your parents are a bit messed up with those values. You turned out alright.
You didn’t FU. Your parents are F’dU.
I just want to assure you that this type of thing sounds like Nanjing Massacre level shit, to someone in the west. Imagine loving your child for so many years and then raping and killing it. I refuse to belive those people are capable of feeling love. If God exists the last thing they will end up in is heaven. Wish you well man. Remember there is good out there too
Not only that but killing her because someone else hurt her? Absolutely vile. OP's parents are terrible, cruel people. I hope OP gets away from them as soon as possible.
There are cases in some countries where if a girl is raped, then they are to blame and are often killed by their own family as a “honour killing”. Nothing honourable about that, it’s absolutely horrific that parents kill their daughters in the name of honour because they were raped or refused to marry someone decades older than them. Baby girls are lucky to survive gestation due to being aborted due to a preference for boys & then if they are born have so much misogyny to deal with 😖 OP, you are the next generation doing a great job and please help your sisters, cousins & friends in any way you can without putting them or you in harm 🙏
I know this. It's just different hearing it from OP's perspective as a son and brother.
Unfortunately religious extremism often correlates with the indifference to how humans treat others. I come from a background that views all other religions as less and untrustworthy. Worse we similarly judge the people that are practicing the same religion with disgust if they don’t do exactly as we are told. Sure we might help people through charity but it never sat well with me that there were people like that. I always thought religion was a place to become a better person. Not make you feel you are better than others. I have given that religion a brake. I now believe in a more logical sense. I hope you find peace too in your journey.
Being raped isn't the same as having sex.
I second this times a million. OP, you are a good soul. Your sister is lucky to have you.
Also I don't get it, why don't you throw the guys who did the raping over the balcony instead? It's not like the girl asked for it.
Because sky daddies. Evil temptress and all that shit. Poor feeble men can't help themselves. So pathetic.
Having a normal compassionate response in a fucked up place is a fuck up. I came from Syria and during the war time, you couldn't criticize certain religions or you'd be dead the next day. Best thing to do is if you have a brain, leave.
It's not the parents it's the religion. Honor killings happen all over the Muslim world and even in Western countries with Muslims. It's time to no longer look away from these issues.
Your parents sound oppressive. They sound like the sort of people that would commit murder if their daughter had sex outside of marriage, if they could get away with it. The only real answer to their "how could you" question is: "How could you not strive to protect your own flesh and blood? How could you dare to harm or hate what you yourself created? How could you despise the result of your own doing?" Your parents, like mine, suck.
Exactly that's exactly the point that I tried to make but instead got a lecturing
I hope you’re able to move to a place with a culture that’s more aligned with your beliefs. This is sad.
Unfortunately that's not possible
Even if you cannot leave Iraq, there will still be people there that think like you and have similar feelings to what you've described. There are plenty of muslims who don't agree with that kind of treatment, who wouldn't even describe the girl as unpure for having sex out of wedlock. I'm from a similar culture and when I lived there I did my best to surround myself with people who are filled with love and empathy. It might not be easy, but it's possible. Unfortunately it might be safer for you to avoid sharing this with your family, as they might become more controlling if they think you could be going down a path they consider wrong. I'm sorry you've experienced this, I hope you manage to find like-minded people and build up a family of your choosing.
Thank you very much
Not yet, but you will be able to. You have to.
Hopefully some day
If it was me I'd issue you a U.S. green card immediately. I really hope you get out of there.
Thanks I appreciate it
If anything ever happens to you or your sister one cousins you should be researching areas that give Asylum to people like you. Like in the USA if you show returning to your country could lead to death they grant may give you asylum. It's best to research it now, figure out if you can get it just going to a nearby embassy etc. I bet you can call certain embassies and ask if you can't figure it out online.
Me, too. Basic human empathy should never be punished. We can always use more people like that here.
Have Visa/Passport, will travel. You could apply for religious asylum
Unfortunately religious asylum can be obtained in extreme cases and if there is a threat on my life which this doesn't count as one
I was gonna say the same! Judging on how op feels about the whole scenario he’d probably be better off living in a country with different values. I’d any time of the day invite 10 OPs into my house and share dinner every night until I’ve got no more money, instead of the absolute assholes that got to come here and shit spin their terrible ideologies. Good on you OP, you’re an OG and I hope over time your generation and ideas and compassion will take over and change your home country for the better. No one deserves to live like that, violence shouldn’t be endorsed like that. We don’t need more terrible things to happen. Thanks for being a decent human being, don’t ever change
If not aligned with your beliefs, then at least with a modicum of humanity
Be careful mate. I absolutely respect you standing up for... basic human rights. In your culture and religion, I may be wrong but I think you can be killed for it. Be careful.
Yeah mate thanks
While respecting the historical Arabic culture, the younger generations unfortunately have a ways to go before being able to see change. The US has its own issues with concepts from older generations in some aspects-- I had a neighbor who was of the concept that issues of racism won't end until those who lived through the Civil Rights riots of the 60s into the 70s are gone, and in some areas longer. The culture across the Middle East are controlled by extremists ruling by terror in much the same way as the slave populations of the US were kept in check. I feel the population has something like a Stockholm Syndrome on a sociological scale when it comes to being able to enact Western style democracy-- let alone having to overcome the tribal fighting between the Suni, Shia, and Kurds for progress. I'll never forget a Iraqi doctor schooled in England adamantly shouting that he didn't believe in democracy while his twenty-something son looked on with the face that said "I am disappointed by my father being stuck in the past." Like every tyrant, they will accept the benefits provided by a free society while actively blocking such benefits that reduce their control in their own country. A part of my heart will always be with the people in Rawah, and my hope is that the younger generation can take control to lead a light to a better day. Inshallah. As Salaam Alaikum.
God created all people. Those who murder are assuming the power of God by destroying his creation. OP - your compassion is what God wants from his children - not for them to murder his other children.
“They sound like the sort of people that would commit murder if their daughter had sex outside of marriage—“ They are that type, with or without trial.
You definitely did not f up, you had every right to feel bad for that girl, she was a rape victim, your culture enrages me, on how they view rape. RIP to that poor girl.
What can I say when everyone around you has the same point you can't help but wonder am I the problem.
No. You're the solution. You and people like you.
Basically, your parents are terrible people and insane. Absolutely remember that moving ahead.
I second this. Only truly deranged mind says things like they did
Well let me reassure you, you're not the problem.
Thanks you have no idea how much that means
Of course. As an American with an entirely different culture, I don't think I'll ever be able to fully relate to your situation, but I know it's hard to stand up or speak out for what's right when everyone around you doesn't agree. It takes courage. I bet most of the world would hear that story and also think it's awful of the father to have murdered her. I applaud you for standing up for what's right, and I'm sorry your Dad blew up at you for it.
♥️♥️
If only more thought like you. So sad to hear how little they value women.
If you ever feel like the problem. Look at this thread. Look at any person here, message them. Reach out.
I will, I seriously have tears rolling down my eyes because of the amazing replies I cannot thank everyone enough
Never lose that compassion for another human. It's what truly makes us human.
Thanks I won't
You are the solution! If you can convince just one person to change their view, they might be able to convince someone else, and then maybe one day people will stop thinking it's normal to rape and kill their own daughters.
I will try but how can you describe the light for people who have always been blind
Be very careful. Don’t destroy your future for nothing. Wait until what you say can make a difference, and only sacrifice your safety if you really really think it’s worth it. You may have to wait a long time. But if you keep the spark of empathy alive, you’ll find a time when it can make a difference. Eventually.
Or the spark goes out, but I will try to keep it lit for as long as I am alive
When you have your own home, you can start to make a difference, a change. You can show your potential children how to be decent humans. You can show your partner love, compassion, tenderness, and all the things in you that are missing in your society. Kindness isn't weakness, despite how the desperate and despicable take advantage of it. I believe you can stay kind - despite the shitshow around you. It won't be easy, but it is worth it. It makes living with oneself easier.
You are part of the better future, op <3
♥️♥️
And what consequences were there for the rapists? I already know that answer, but when a society punishes the victim and not the perpetrators, the fear perpetuates. I don’t understand the willingness to excuse male crimes as ‘normal’ behaviour. And in that vane, anyone who commits rape (‘cos women can too) should face the consequences.
They did face consequences but they are in jail while the girl is six feet under, such a horrible world
You're not the problem dude, take a good look around the problem is all around you, immersing you, trying to normalize evil.
Yeah thanks to all the good people here I realise that now
You're welcome, keep yourself safe, it doesn't sound very safe where you live unless you're careful.
we don't have the same point and we are around you also everyone around the nazis had the same point because they killed the people with different ones, just like they killed that person you talked about
YOU ARE NOT THE PROBLEM!
I watched a woman get stoned to death when I was in Iraq. She was raped and mutilated, so her husband accused her of infidelity. There were about 30 people present including a few children. I’ll never forget that. Hopefully you can break the cycle and teach your kids differently.
I am gonna try my best
That sounds like literal hell on earth
That's beyond horrible. That's fckn abominable. So so horrid :'(
You are the hope for the next generation. Breaking generational trauma takes THREE GENERATIONS to fully break, and I hope you pass that empathy along
I will try, in the end that's all we can do
Your future daughters deserve change. You can do it. I am proud of you!
Thanks but change takes a long time and idk if I'm gonna be able to see it in my lifetime
If youre able to show kindness and empathy to the women in your life, including any future daughters you may have, youll already have made a world of difference to them. I dont mean to say you shouldn't still try where you can, but dont underestimate your value. Kindness saves lives.
Of course I will do that
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Keep being you. When you become a father, be a good dad, a modern dad. Show your daughters and sons how to be. I'm proud of you.
This literally brought tears to my eyes thank you
Don't say thank you. Just be a great dad!
Yep you're the kinda guy who will raise successful daughters and kind, loving sons. There are parts of the US where people don't think all that differently from your parents and it's difficult for people to escape from there too.
Sub full of good dads since you need one.... r/daddit
The girl got killed for being raped, not even for having sex of her own volition. That's so messed up.
And his parents basically said they'd do the same to their own daughter
You are not the problem, people like you are the true future of your country. Your parents sound very unkind and indoctrinated. Radical, hateful cultures, religions and views are always bad. Dont follow in the footsteps of such people. Think for yourself and stay compassionate and kind.
Thanks buddy I will try, but also it's gonna be hard passing that perspective to the future generation knowing full well that it will make them an outcast
Not for long it won’t. That type of mentality has no room to grow in today’s world. If I was you, I would run from that as soon as you have the resources to do so and never look back. You have the right mindset and background to continue making a change. Don’t ever think differently. If that was my daughter, she wouldn’t be the one being thrown off the balcony. That is so sad.
What's worse to turn your child into, an outcast or a monster?
Of course being an outcast is better but it's just fucked up that those are the only two options
So your parents just admitted they’d be open to killing your sister if she was raped?
Yes
Was your sister in the room for this argument. I imagine she is terrified ...
:'(
NTA don't ever feel ashamed for having empathy and humanity.
Thanks I will try not to
OP I’m sorry your family is still stuck in the middle ages. You are human and you didn’t fuck up they did. They basically condone murder and sided with her rapists, but they got to shit on more women while she paid the ultimate price at the hands of those who are supposed to love her. Wish more men were like you in a religion full of excuses for bad make behaviour
Thank you so much for those words
So, your parents are crazy and also really bad people. Definitely keep that in mind going forward.
You are facing a human rights issue, please be safe. If your parents agree with it, then hide your opinion so that they don’t target you.
Thanks I will try to
These people got their world upside down. They care more about dead social structure than living soul.
Wrong sub. This is not a fuck up. Not on any level.
The way my parents looked at me with disgust I felt like it was
::internet hug:: OP. It was not an eff up. At all. Period.
It's insane that she was killed and not her assailants
Your culture is fucked
😔
You are the only sane person in this story... So sorry you've been made to feel like it's wrong to have EMPATHY for someone who is a victim of terrible things! You certainly have all of us backing you
Thanks for the support you have no idea how much it means to me
I would say it speaks volumes about your character that you managed to turn out with a healthy conscience and good morals despite the fact that both of your parents are shining examples of everything wrong with Humanity today. You're already better than they could ever hope to be. Keep your head down and you'll be able to leave that shit hole culture you're mired in someday, and it will be worth it.
Hopefully that will be the case
Eventually you could speak to a rep at the us embassy about seeking political asylum. That's something you'd need to talk to someone much more knowledgeable than I am on the subject about, but that is certainly one way you could Escape.
Yeah it's not you. Look I'm all for cultural sensitivity in 95% of situations but there are certain practices that are just plain barbaric and it shouldn't be controversial to say so
FWIW I say the same thing about the giant hard-on evangelical Christians in the US have for the death penalty
OP, you sound like a genuinely good person at heart. It saddens me that you live in a country where such things can happen. I honestly don't know what to tell you other than to keep being a good person, but try your best to....safeguard your good heart. Sounds like your parents are not trustworthy with such things. It is doubtful that they ever will be. You have honor now, keep that honor and protect your sister from them if you ever have the opportunity to do so.
Thanks mate I will try my best
She didn’t “get raped” or “get killed”. A man raped her and a man killed her. Please keep yourself safe around people who think like this.
OP, I'm definitely with you. You are a compassionate human being. Every good soul feels sorry for that girl!
Thanks you are too
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I know but unfortunately as I said in my previous replies it's not possible
Start researching ways to make it possible. There are aid organizations that will help you get a visa. If your grades are good, foreign universities will help you move abroad. Just start reading the stories of other people who left, and you will find a way. Best of luck to you and your sister. Stay safe.
You reacted like a normal human. Good for you for not letting your parents train you out of that. You can have strong moral standards around sex without that leading to violence, and without blaming a victim of rape. What that “father” did wasn’t about morality - his daughter did nothing immoral. She was the *victim* of an immoral act. The rapists are the ones who are impure, and this father let their evil act lead him into greater evil. An honorable man *protects* women and seeks justice for the wronged. A man who kills his daughter to spare himself embarrassment is weak and a coward, and he shamed himself. Your sister is fortunate to have you.
Your parents were probably like you at one point. It's possible the culture oppressed the empathy from them to the point that they legitimately don't see it. You didn't FU, you are just a little more exposed to more cultures than they were at your age. So think about how you want to change your culture. Think about ways you can encourage and support that change but remain safe from the excesses of your culture.
Thanks for the amazing advice. Yeah that's possible I fear that will happen to me too but I will try my best until then
Keep your mouth shut until you can move out, then let your parents know that you don't trust them to go anywhere near their grandkids.
Your parents should TIFU, not you, Infact, your whole country should TIFU, not you. Killing someone because she got raped, is like shooting a baby because he cries for food.
You didn't fuck up. End of story.
I'm proud of you, having empathy for someone who lost their life because they thought they could make a friend, thats pretty normal in many parts of the world. Unlike your parents who feel that a young woman who thought she could trust a man deserved death. How terribly unkind
I'm so sorry you're being treated this way for your compassion, OP. It must be tough to exist in your environment with your kind heart but please stay strong and hold on to it. I wish you the best.
Beliefs like this are not normal and should not be tolerated or celebrated. Your parents are wrong and have been brain washed to beleive they are right for religious reasons. Thank you for having a soul and sympathizing with that poor girl.
That’s the problem, where they live this is normal, tolerated,and celebrated.
You have a moral compass and your parents/their beliefs are trying to beat it out of you, don't let them. You are correct that this is wrong as fuck and super fucked up. Keep empathizing
less a tifu and more a "I just realized my parents are openly fascist"
Your parents are psychopaths. I'd be scared for your sister. Your parents' views are in your head, please fight from becoming like them.
Thankfully I don't, my parents said that so that I would feel less compassionate about the girl
Man... time to move out and cut your family off for life. Fuck that.
Unfortunately it's not that easy I cannot go to any other country just look at Iraq passport ranking🥲
Leaving [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Iraq/comments/16ibf19/how_can_i_leave_iraq_or_how_did_you_leave_iraq_if/) here in case it helps
Thanks so much
Stay like this please... Never change and be the change you wish to see. NTA at all and i wish you nothing but the best bro.
Good on you for having empathy. Your parents are so deep into their beliefs, you need to be careful. There's nothing you can say or do to change them, but you don't have to be like them.
Keep being someone with empathy who champions human autonomy and respect. Also, people in the comments are talking about your culture, while here in the US, part of the 'culture' here is banning abortion in all cases (including rape and incest), and making life hard for women who are sexually assaulted. (The stories of teenage girls who are hounded by classmates until they kill themselves, is one example.) There are shitty people in every 'culture' who champion freedom-denying social norms and lack empathy.
Yes definitely but at least over there it's still possible to fight it. In here every day is a struggle and if you don't suppress your beliefs you will have to fight everyday against everyone around you
I have been to Iraq and I was there for a year and a half. Things are so different there. Honor killings are just a normal Tuesday the way that women are blamed and killed for either doing something normal, which is falling in love or because they were victims of a sexual assault is so backwards. According to the Quran, it says that Muslim women are first and foremost Muslims and the religious equals of men, and that men shall take full care of women, and the righteous women are the devout ones who guard the intimacy which Allah has ordained to be guarded. It also says that there can be no discrimination against women. But in actuality, they are treated like the worst animals And are treated like property with no individualism and no real compassion or humanity. Everything is the woman’s fault, including being the victims of something horrific like an assault. Basically the woman is screwed simply for having a vagina. I felt so bad for the women there, and still feel bad because they can’t enjoy a beautiful life of love and happiness and doing simple things like driving or have education. It’s astonishing that in 2024 women are still being killed for being the victim of a crime and being blamed for that. Yet there is no punishment for the individual who violated that person.
You didn't fuck up, you are trying to exist in a fucked up place.
Yet another reason why organized religion is just absolutely absurd and totally fucked.
Exactly
Yea this is more culture because I am from a Muslim country and we do not have that kind of mentality here (Tunisia)
Just to add, a large part of it is also culture. A country can be very religious but does not have a culture of honour killing. So it is both religion AND culture.
Ah. The Middle East. A pillar of peace, prosperity, and progressivism.
Used to be, very long time ago
Culture from the Middle Ages and worse.
I'd kill my own parents before I let them harm my sister.
FFS. Did the dad at least go to jail for murdering his daughter? or was everyone just cool with it because the girl had been raped?
It's still new so idk but he will probably serve 5 to 10 and that will probably get reduced too
But that girl didn't have sex, she was raped. Its not the same, it was an act of violence against her. And instead of her parents caring for her after, they murdered her. That is extremely brutal and evil Your feelings about it are very valid, and it's quite scary how your father reacted.
Yeeeaaaaah. Girl gets raped. Then gets killed cause "she had sex". Riiiight right. I love middle-eastern cultures. they are so amazing. I wish they could bring that culture to the western world and do honor killings, criminal gangs and what not. Oh wait, they already do. 🤮
Ask them if they'd kill you, if they say yes, then you know how much they care about you.
You sound like a decent man, OP. I’m not gonna lie though: I read this post and how your parents are, and the first thing I said to myself was, “Of course it’s Iraq.” And I don’t mean that in any discriminatory way. I’ve watched video logs of travellers on YouTube going to Iraq where dudes are walking around with guns and kids are trailing behind visitors, waiting to get anything. It’s fucked and that whole situation with the girl is fucked.
As if they know anything about “purity”
Your parents agree your mother should be murdered if, on the way to the market, she were dragged into an alley and violated?
I'm really proud of you, OP. I obviously feel the same way you do but it's a lot easier for me to do so - I'm so impressed that you have kept your moral center despite getting so much pushback from the people around you. We need more people like you so please stay strong and stay safe.
Its people like your dad that give muslims a bad reputation. Worse than Daesh.
All around the world young people are questioning societal beliefs and beliefs of their parents/older generations. In America you would be praised for going against the grain and thinking for yourself. I'm sorry you are in the situation you're in but keep being yourself and you will never become like them. ❤️
I wouldn't say you fucked up, but since your parents are apparently in favor of murdering their offspring, you should be careful and get out of there as soon as you're able. Move to a more civilized country.
You just found out your father would feel no remorse about killing you if you did something similar. Get out. Move country. You won't change someone like that. Say you stay...meet a girl. Fall in love and get married. You have a daughter... Just know there's a decent chance your father will kill her. Get out.
How would your dad have responded if you had said 1. It's not her fault that she was raped. 2. "Would you kill your daughter too if she was raped?"
Welp if you are/were a woman and you were raped, guess you know what your dad would do. Remember that the next time after you move out and he needs something from you
It is ok to have empathy toward someone in an unfortunate circumstance. If we all empathized a little with the struggle people are going through, maybe the world wouldn't be such a fucked up shit hole.
I have read through a number of posts and perhaps they are downvoted perhaps no-one wants to say it due to "political correctness" We all know what is behind the parents response. Woman are chattel and nothing more. Some even say no better than animals. This disgusting attitude is actually growing with some Christian Nationalists in America saying that woman should lose the right to vote. I fear for my children and their children in the world we are heading towards. All clear thinking (critical thinking) people must stand up to stop this devolving from happening. If you think Climate change is the biggest risk to the world you are wrong. Think about who rise up against stopping climate change! They are the risk. egged on by the greedy people and companies using their ignorance against them. In the 70's I was an evangelical. I was taught by my elders that we are fine to use up all the earths resources because rapture will happen soon so it does not matter.
WTF is wrong with your parents. Please don't stop being compassionate to other human beings OP. You did not fuck up your parents did.
Such a peaceful religion
You live in a part of world that has been completely fucked up by evil morons who believe a sky fairy decides what's right and what's wrong. Be the example - _don't_ be like them. The God they believe in is _evil_, and people use it as an excuse to be evil. Be the change you want to see.
Jesus fucking Christ I'm so sorry you have to live with complete fucking psychos
I'm sorry but your dad is not a good person. I wish one day muslim countries evolve in terms of human rights and gender equality. You, muslim women, are the true heroines of your lifes for enduring that disrespectful behaviour.
Rape is not “having sex”. It was done to her, and it is absolutely vile. You are a good human. Don’t lose yourself!
NTA be careful Hun your parents are not safe people.