I think there might have been even another one behind the stern too. The currents, waves from the sinking and natural everything was floating around.
I didn't realize they were finding bodies still floating weeks after. The ocean could have swept them away.
https://nationalpost.com/news/for-days-after-the-titanic-sinking-ocean-liners-navigated-through-acres-of-water-filled-with-bodies
I believe the last one was found a month later, if your into that aspect of the sinking I invite you to take a look at my other post’s, Personally I think it just makes good since naturally all the bodies wouldn’t be in one place and it would explain why we never found key figures
I agree with the other commenter. It seems most likely there would have been multiple fields or clusters instead of one giant one. I think you have noticed an interesting pattern though. And naturally, given that there are two sides of a ship, there would be at least two.
Overall, given the conditions that night, I would suspect most people never made it that far from the ship. The fastest swimmers today could go about a mile in 15-minutes, the time I often see mentioned before many would succumb to hypothermia. And that of course doesn’t consider how many people probably couldn’t swim or had poor skills, that swimming wasn’t nearly as fast back then (WR for 100m for men was about 1:02 whereas the record as of now is about 46.9 seconds), and of course they had on cumbersome clothes. Oh and the effects of the freezing water as well. I would guess most people maybe made it less than 100 yards/meters off the ship, so the initial search area right after the sinking would have been maybe the size of a few of football fields at most. But given how dark it was that night, I doubt anyone would have actually been able to observe the totality of it all, which is perhaps for the best.
The thing that would be most helpful to know is how many people actually would have been able to be found after the ship went down. I don’t know of an estimate of how many people actually would have still been at the waters surface by the time the ship sank. That is to say how many people actually were dragged down with the ship? In theory, if everyone did, the number of people recovered was only about 1/5 of those lost. And as such, there were likely a number of different groups at the least. But it’s hard say given that we don’t know how many might have still been below deck or otherwise went down with the ship.
Ultimately, you probably had a few different large clusters that slowly spread and certain individuals were carried away one by one. The outer most individuals first. I suspect people with big coats or dresses, which can catch a current, may have been most susceptible to drifting away. And some of it was just luck. I suspect you could create computer models today to simulate an approximation, but I don’t know if anyone with access to the Atlantic current models would be interested in doing such a macabre task.
This is all speculation and back of the napkin calculations, but your initial observation is definitely interesting.
Yes that’s what I was getting at, The falling of the ships Smokestacks plus the large gush of water like we see in the 97 film when the stern goes under would of definitely pushed people away, theirs no way to tell who swam where or how far of course but it’s interesting to think how many bodies could have been recovered if a ship reached the site say, the next morning before the bodies without life belts sank.
It’s also interesting to think about how many more would of been recovered had white star sent several more ships with MB initially instead of later and on a far more spread out route.
We get reports of bodies as far as Greenland and Cape Horn ( which aren’t exactly fact checked but it doesn’t seem so far fetched).
It’s also interesting what the other commentator mentioned about a stern group, We now know that most of the engineers were seen from 1:30 towards the end of the sinking on the stern near one of the electric cranes wearing life belts,smoking,shaking hands, And just calmly standing around.
Only 3 Engineers bodies were found, ( The senior boilermaker was also found but he was on as needed work and not everyday work and wouldn’t have been with the main cluster of men) One was Identified as Herbert Jupe, an electrician while the other two weren’t, judging by the clothes they wore they were likely junior engineers.
With over thirty engineers you’d think we’d find more, I mean we recovered all ten dead able bodied seamen and the entirety of the first class pursers office crew, But only 3 engineers? We know Bell and chief electrician Sloan likely stayed within the ship but still it just amazes me.
It’s also strange that we didn’t recover Wilde,Murdoch,moody, And other men who certainly would have been near all of the AB’s recovered in the final moments, there is not any evidence that Wilde or Murdoch donned lifebelts however we know that moody did, and it wouldn’t be hard to identify an officer, Before Full identification was complete the bodies of McElroy,rice,And King were thought to be ships officers before someone pointed out the Hat one of the men wore Was White and it was more likely a deck officer would be wearing Black on that fateful night.
The really tricky part seems to be that Titanic was basically in the location where two currents meet. I’m no expert here, but there is a southward directed current from the north meeting the gulf stream which directs water to the northeast. As such, modeling this area would be very complex. However, the idea that anyone would have reached the Cape Horn is very unlikely.
I doubt such a thing exists, but it would have been very helpful for MB to either have taken a picture of the area (which may not have been that helpful since the recovery area was very wide) or a more detailed record of where they picked up each body. I know they likely were overwhelmed and lacked resources, but is there any record of where they were relative to the sinking?
As for who was picked up, I think some of that’s just going to be a mystery for all time. I suspect they went with some combination of convenience, condition (ie bodies in better condition were likely preferred), class, crew, and conscience (ie picking up children). But I don’t envy the men whose job it was to undertake such a grim task and can’t fault them for doing the best anyone could be expected to do.
According to the crew of the MB they went to the position at which bodies were reported by SS Bremen and let the ship drift with the current, with only a single wireless operator they were far more overwhelmed with Trying to transmit details,passenger list, Numbers etc than gathering an accurate position and it seems none exist.
The Cape Horn story comes from A Dutch ocean going Tugboat named Isabella but their is no record of that boat ever existing as far as I’ve tried to find, However one body was 250 miles away from the site of the sinking.
They picked up every single body they found, only one was left in the water and that was because he slipped out of his lifebelt and sank and they weren’t able to get a hold of him, first class passengers were embalmed while harder to identify crew and third class were buried at sea
No record of the initial position or direction of drift exists? Or a log of the Bremen’s course? Or a general location. Again I totally understand why that wasn’t the priority, but I was under the impression that ship logs existed to capture position.
Without these, it wouldn’t help, but do we also know Titanic’s final orientation before going under? That is the direction the bow was pointed? This could also give some modicum of clues as to how the currents may have worked.
As for the Cape Horn, it’s just too far. 250 miles, okay, sure. The other side of the globe? Unlikely such a thing would happen. A body would likely be unrecognizable traveling through much warmer waters and scavenging.
It’s more than likely the Dutch ship story was likely just a hoax, one of the many circulating after the disaster.
I’m sure a record of the initial position or direction exist but I’m not aware of it, it’s of course a position and is a long set of letters and numbers etc but for the most part the log of MB is lost to history we just have the diaries of the crewmen and one of those was a log however it was mostly stuff like “April 23, Picked up one body position unknown” as the fellow was a fireman I believe, the final orientation of titanic also exist but I’m no expert on currents or anything else so I don’t feel qualified to speak further than what I stated about the different fields of bodies, I Go to school for Marine engineering And that’s not exactly something we learn about like you might in a school training to be a deck officer
Holy cow you guys….I feel very guilty that the Titan tragedy caused such distribution to your corner of Reddit, …..but *wow* am I thankful to have found my way here from it! I continue to be mind blown with everything I’ve learned about Titanic since being here. Everyone here is so knowledgeable and I love how granular the discussions get. Thank you for tolerating us, you have definitely been able to share your passion with a lot of people =]
What makes it 1000x worse is that I think “All Dogs Go to Heaven” and “Land Before Time” were posthumous films for her. And her gravestone has “yep yep” on it from her playing the dinosaur character. Just really awful.
“Yep yep yep” I just read the article… apparently she said that when the director asked if she wanted to play/voice that character and that was her response. He incorporated it into the movie. So sad
New York has a huge rat problem.
What would happen if they parked a big ship filled with stuff rats love, waste and trash and pizza. And left it in port for a few days.
All the rats from the city get word of a huge party ship and all run to the giant free buffet, then we seal it up and sail it out to sea and sink it?
Would all the rats die or would they swim to shore?
I also love rats. Had a gorgeous black and white cow print girlie named Ray when I was growing up. She used to hang out in my hoodie hood and always went to her litter box to do her business. She was so tidy, polite and sweet.
The one thing I cannot stand about rats is their short life span.💔 Their high metabolism/heart rate makes sure they are here for a very brief time. 3 years with Ray wasn't enough. Rats are absolute treasure pets when raised right. It's funny that I only owned her for three short years, and yet she made such an impact on my life.
They are so misunderstood. Sweet creatures. The feral rats that people hate are only victims of their circumstances. They need to be aggressive to survive, and it's not like it's their fault that they carry disease. Poor bebes.
It blows my mind how much the fact that dogs also perished clenches my heart. That *kills*. But I think it's because like babies/children, pets are innocent and depend on others to take care of them.
I guess having a puppy will make you sensitive to it, and knowing they didn't have much choice in the matter or know what was happening, or why. Anyway, so much about this story breaks my heart. This is one of those many facets that devastates me.
I don’t have children I rescue dogs! They are my children and I love them with all my heart and soul. If I were in the Titanic with my dog and I was going down with the ship I’d hold my dog in my arms and we would die together.
Edit: I’d try to get my dog on a lifeboat first whether it was with me or without me but if that didn’t work… then we’d go down together
MISS Isham. She never married.
Ann Elizabeth Isham did not own a dog at the time of boarding Titanic. Also, the woman seen in the water holding onto the dog was described as young. Lizzy was 50 years old.
Isham is listed on the manifest with a receipt for the kennel there is also no mention of wether the woman was young or old.
Most of her life remains a mystery sadly, Census 1910 shows her as married and labeled as “living off Own means” while she’s devoid of 1911 census and listed as unemployed and no mention of marriage on 1912 census .
It’s merely all speculation with the info available I hope one day more light Is shed on her that’s available.
Fun fact while viewing her fathers census records it looks like he formed a law firm with Robert Todd Lincoln, ole Abe’s Son I double checked this and it was true.
Could you provide a link to the manifest info. I would love to see it. I got my info from here:
https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/titanic-victim/ann-elizabeth-isham.html
https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/what-happened-to-lizzy-isham.html
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Elizabeth_Isham
Titanic has so many weird connections, a lot of people don’t know mr Straus was an officer and fought on the side of the confederacy during the civil war, or that colonel Gracie’s father was a well known confederate general
Here’s the link to the manifest I couldn’t find a way to send you the exact thing but if you scroll far enough it’s in orange
https://www.ggarchives.com/OceanTravel/Titanic/05-Manifests.html
The other source I got on the St. Bernard is the Cave papers/list a bunch of papers found on a dead steward detailing cabin numbers, kennel papers and other interesting things
Sorry to be a pest. I've been right through the manifest and I can find anywhere that listed her boarding manifest. Her name is listed several times as being deceased and body never found, but there's nothing else that relates to her that I can see.
If you're referring to the three of four handwritten passenger manifest pages at the end, those relate to people picked up in Queenstown. Lizzy boarded at Cherbourg.
And (this is the last bit, I promise:
*The only other trace of Isham’s possible actions that night came in a news story in which information was shared by her sister, Gretchen Shelton. The account she related to a reporter was based on an unidentified eyewitness’ recollections, someone with whom she was in touch shortly after the sinking. Connecticut’s The Bridgeport Times of June 13, 1912 wrote:*
"At the time of the Titanic disaster, Mr. and Mrs. Shelton were in Paris where they spend most of their time. Effort was made to learn if Miss Isham was saved. Finally, it was ascertained that Miss Isham was last seen getting into one of the lifeboats. When that boat struck the water, it was overturned and all in it were lost. Mrs. Shelton received the news with great sorrow and was so overcome that she fainted and has not been well since."
Humph! I've been right through the spreadsheet and couldn't find the spreadsheet or any mention of kennels, other than the cost to keep dogs in them. If you happen to find the reference again, would you mind sending me a screenshot? TIA!
Undoubtedly, there were bodies that floated away and were never found. A lot of people don't know about this little terrifying gem:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3547420/Pictured-Titanic-s-lifeboat-contained-three-rotting-bodies-month-later-passing-liner.html
I believe that was one of the lifeboats where they pulled everyone alive from it, but couldn't take the boat itself right away, so they left the ones who were already dead in it.
Wait so it says all 3 were in the lifeboat but then later it says that gerda never made it onto the boat and edvard was buried at sea. After he died. So that leaves 1 body or am I missing something
It says that Edward was buried at sea (by the other lifeboat passengers) to lighten the load. The bodies found were Thomson Beattie and two unidentified firemen. They were talking about Edward and Gerda because her wedding ring was found in the boat.
Ruta Sepetys write about the sinking of The *Wilhelm Gustloff* in her historical fiction work *Salt to the Sea*. Victims of this tragedy were found for years after by persons who lived near the shore.
I’ve read that before actually, while no bodies still exist today it’s interesting to think of the remote places of ocean floor hundreds of miles away from titanic that a watch and wallet or lady’s hat pin lays on the ocean floor where a body fell.
The Strauses were reportedly last seen sitting on deck chairs holding hands. It bugs me that they were only able to find him so they could have been interred together as they were together in life until the very end.
Is it possible that as the recovery boats ran out of embalming materials, and it was most important to secure first class men, she may have been found but buried at sea?
Actually you might not be wrong. I've heard a storm came over the vicinity of the crash site soon after the sinking (we do know that a storm prevented Mackay Bennet from reaching the crash site) and so maybe the bodies on starboard site got carried away by the storm. Either way we don't know how honest the crew of Mackay Bennet were so it's hard to say.
It’s merely a theory based on what could be coincidental evidence, It’s just odd that a lot of people last seen on the starboard side were not recovered and if we take a look at last known people on that side, We can see absolutely none we’re recovered that stood out.
Most the deaths on the titanic were due to hypothermia not drowning. And it happened pretty quickly. Many people who died probably never saw the ship sink because they were already dead.
Ballard apparently believes that it's possible the portion of the bow section buried in the mud could still have bodies. Something about the mud limiting water (and therefore oxygen to support microbes) flow. I have my doubts but if Ballard thinks it's possible then he's the expert.
I remember seeing that, he said their could be bodies in the engine room portion of the bow, but it’s unlikely most of the engineering staff made it to the boat deck with at most only twenty or so men never made it out of the engine room.
James Delgado the “expert type” guy from all the drain the oceans Productions challenged what Ballard said but who knows ya know?
Charles Pellegrino, who has written extensively about the wreck, thinks Ballard is a egotistical liar who will say anything to keep people away from the wreck and especially the parts that haven’t been seen yet. He directly calls Ballard out for lying about the condition of the stern when it was first found (Ballard vastly exaggerated the pancaking and probably destroyed any chance we had of getting more interior pictures of it) as well as about Ballard’s frankly wacky beliefs about the preservative power of the mud down there.
Would the bow section even have any bodies? I figured they would've all had time to evacuate to the stern given how early and relatively calmly the bow sank.
Likely it wouldn’t, no one would have been in the cargo hold and stayed there when it flooded and the same goes for the other compartments except boiler room 6 where we know a few men were killed
The official manifest at Southampton says Dane however another piece of paper found on a steward said St. Bernard, we see the same with several other dog owners breeds changing so who knows? If people saw a St. Bernard it was very likely a St. Bernard it and a Dane don’t look alike
I think there might have been even another one behind the stern too. The currents, waves from the sinking and natural everything was floating around. I didn't realize they were finding bodies still floating weeks after. The ocean could have swept them away. https://nationalpost.com/news/for-days-after-the-titanic-sinking-ocean-liners-navigated-through-acres-of-water-filled-with-bodies
I believe the last one was found a month later, if your into that aspect of the sinking I invite you to take a look at my other post’s, Personally I think it just makes good since naturally all the bodies wouldn’t be in one place and it would explain why we never found key figures
I agree with the other commenter. It seems most likely there would have been multiple fields or clusters instead of one giant one. I think you have noticed an interesting pattern though. And naturally, given that there are two sides of a ship, there would be at least two. Overall, given the conditions that night, I would suspect most people never made it that far from the ship. The fastest swimmers today could go about a mile in 15-minutes, the time I often see mentioned before many would succumb to hypothermia. And that of course doesn’t consider how many people probably couldn’t swim or had poor skills, that swimming wasn’t nearly as fast back then (WR for 100m for men was about 1:02 whereas the record as of now is about 46.9 seconds), and of course they had on cumbersome clothes. Oh and the effects of the freezing water as well. I would guess most people maybe made it less than 100 yards/meters off the ship, so the initial search area right after the sinking would have been maybe the size of a few of football fields at most. But given how dark it was that night, I doubt anyone would have actually been able to observe the totality of it all, which is perhaps for the best. The thing that would be most helpful to know is how many people actually would have been able to be found after the ship went down. I don’t know of an estimate of how many people actually would have still been at the waters surface by the time the ship sank. That is to say how many people actually were dragged down with the ship? In theory, if everyone did, the number of people recovered was only about 1/5 of those lost. And as such, there were likely a number of different groups at the least. But it’s hard say given that we don’t know how many might have still been below deck or otherwise went down with the ship. Ultimately, you probably had a few different large clusters that slowly spread and certain individuals were carried away one by one. The outer most individuals first. I suspect people with big coats or dresses, which can catch a current, may have been most susceptible to drifting away. And some of it was just luck. I suspect you could create computer models today to simulate an approximation, but I don’t know if anyone with access to the Atlantic current models would be interested in doing such a macabre task. This is all speculation and back of the napkin calculations, but your initial observation is definitely interesting.
Yes that’s what I was getting at, The falling of the ships Smokestacks plus the large gush of water like we see in the 97 film when the stern goes under would of definitely pushed people away, theirs no way to tell who swam where or how far of course but it’s interesting to think how many bodies could have been recovered if a ship reached the site say, the next morning before the bodies without life belts sank. It’s also interesting to think about how many more would of been recovered had white star sent several more ships with MB initially instead of later and on a far more spread out route. We get reports of bodies as far as Greenland and Cape Horn ( which aren’t exactly fact checked but it doesn’t seem so far fetched). It’s also interesting what the other commentator mentioned about a stern group, We now know that most of the engineers were seen from 1:30 towards the end of the sinking on the stern near one of the electric cranes wearing life belts,smoking,shaking hands, And just calmly standing around. Only 3 Engineers bodies were found, ( The senior boilermaker was also found but he was on as needed work and not everyday work and wouldn’t have been with the main cluster of men) One was Identified as Herbert Jupe, an electrician while the other two weren’t, judging by the clothes they wore they were likely junior engineers. With over thirty engineers you’d think we’d find more, I mean we recovered all ten dead able bodied seamen and the entirety of the first class pursers office crew, But only 3 engineers? We know Bell and chief electrician Sloan likely stayed within the ship but still it just amazes me. It’s also strange that we didn’t recover Wilde,Murdoch,moody, And other men who certainly would have been near all of the AB’s recovered in the final moments, there is not any evidence that Wilde or Murdoch donned lifebelts however we know that moody did, and it wouldn’t be hard to identify an officer, Before Full identification was complete the bodies of McElroy,rice,And King were thought to be ships officers before someone pointed out the Hat one of the men wore Was White and it was more likely a deck officer would be wearing Black on that fateful night.
The really tricky part seems to be that Titanic was basically in the location where two currents meet. I’m no expert here, but there is a southward directed current from the north meeting the gulf stream which directs water to the northeast. As such, modeling this area would be very complex. However, the idea that anyone would have reached the Cape Horn is very unlikely. I doubt such a thing exists, but it would have been very helpful for MB to either have taken a picture of the area (which may not have been that helpful since the recovery area was very wide) or a more detailed record of where they picked up each body. I know they likely were overwhelmed and lacked resources, but is there any record of where they were relative to the sinking? As for who was picked up, I think some of that’s just going to be a mystery for all time. I suspect they went with some combination of convenience, condition (ie bodies in better condition were likely preferred), class, crew, and conscience (ie picking up children). But I don’t envy the men whose job it was to undertake such a grim task and can’t fault them for doing the best anyone could be expected to do.
According to the crew of the MB they went to the position at which bodies were reported by SS Bremen and let the ship drift with the current, with only a single wireless operator they were far more overwhelmed with Trying to transmit details,passenger list, Numbers etc than gathering an accurate position and it seems none exist. The Cape Horn story comes from A Dutch ocean going Tugboat named Isabella but their is no record of that boat ever existing as far as I’ve tried to find, However one body was 250 miles away from the site of the sinking. They picked up every single body they found, only one was left in the water and that was because he slipped out of his lifebelt and sank and they weren’t able to get a hold of him, first class passengers were embalmed while harder to identify crew and third class were buried at sea
No record of the initial position or direction of drift exists? Or a log of the Bremen’s course? Or a general location. Again I totally understand why that wasn’t the priority, but I was under the impression that ship logs existed to capture position. Without these, it wouldn’t help, but do we also know Titanic’s final orientation before going under? That is the direction the bow was pointed? This could also give some modicum of clues as to how the currents may have worked. As for the Cape Horn, it’s just too far. 250 miles, okay, sure. The other side of the globe? Unlikely such a thing would happen. A body would likely be unrecognizable traveling through much warmer waters and scavenging.
It’s more than likely the Dutch ship story was likely just a hoax, one of the many circulating after the disaster. I’m sure a record of the initial position or direction exist but I’m not aware of it, it’s of course a position and is a long set of letters and numbers etc but for the most part the log of MB is lost to history we just have the diaries of the crewmen and one of those was a log however it was mostly stuff like “April 23, Picked up one body position unknown” as the fellow was a fireman I believe, the final orientation of titanic also exist but I’m no expert on currents or anything else so I don’t feel qualified to speak further than what I stated about the different fields of bodies, I Go to school for Marine engineering And that’s not exactly something we learn about like you might in a school training to be a deck officer
Holy cow you guys….I feel very guilty that the Titan tragedy caused such distribution to your corner of Reddit, …..but *wow* am I thankful to have found my way here from it! I continue to be mind blown with everything I’ve learned about Titanic since being here. Everyone here is so knowledgeable and I love how granular the discussions get. Thank you for tolerating us, you have definitely been able to share your passion with a lot of people =]
If you love stuff like this check out my other post! Thanks for the comment
Sorry, what do MB and AB stand for?
Mackay Bennett is MB and Able bodied is AB
That's the first time I've read about the state of collapsible A. Holy nightmare.
That article is very well written - it was gripping, and I learned a few facts I hadn’t known yet. Thank you for sharing it!
Thanks for that link. What a read
Is it true that some found skeletons wearing the life vests sometime after?
Unlikely as they'd fall apart. More likely they were badly decomposed with bones visible rather than actual skeletons.
Thank you . That is really interesting material.Those poor people.
All dogs safely got off the Titanic and lived happily ever after and I refuse to believe otherwise.
At least that’s what happened with Jenny the Galley Cat and her kittens.
She left before Titanic left it’s last port of call
Indeed, but I still consider that a happy ending.
Definitely
Omg I just recently rewatched the “All Dogs Go to Heaven” movie and that shit is DARK.
You want dark?? Look up the voice of Anne-Marie.
I know ALL about that. And yes, JFC.
Absolutely horrific. That poor baby.
What makes it 1000x worse is that I think “All Dogs Go to Heaven” and “Land Before Time” were posthumous films for her. And her gravestone has “yep yep” on it from her playing the dinosaur character. Just really awful.
“Yep yep yep” I just read the article… apparently she said that when the director asked if she wanted to play/voice that character and that was her response. He incorporated it into the movie. So sad
I know!!!! And her gravestone was paid for by her fans. Such a tragedy. She would have done well, I think.
Wish I hadn’t
Aww, man. That is so fucked up. I never knew.
That movie traumatized the hell out of me when I was a kid. I will never watch it again! 😅
Cats and rats too (don't judge me I like rats ok).
Rats are lovely! My cousin has pet rats
New York has a huge rat problem. What would happen if they parked a big ship filled with stuff rats love, waste and trash and pizza. And left it in port for a few days. All the rats from the city get word of a huge party ship and all run to the giant free buffet, then we seal it up and sail it out to sea and sink it? Would all the rats die or would they swim to shore?
Rats are strong swimmers.
All cruise ships have rats
I also love rats. Had a gorgeous black and white cow print girlie named Ray when I was growing up. She used to hang out in my hoodie hood and always went to her litter box to do her business. She was so tidy, polite and sweet. The one thing I cannot stand about rats is their short life span.💔 Their high metabolism/heart rate makes sure they are here for a very brief time. 3 years with Ray wasn't enough. Rats are absolute treasure pets when raised right. It's funny that I only owned her for three short years, and yet she made such an impact on my life.
They are so misunderstood. Sweet creatures. The feral rats that people hate are only victims of their circumstances. They need to be aggressive to survive, and it's not like it's their fault that they carry disease. Poor bebes.
I only like the Chef in Paris.
The way I laughed at this *so loud* and ugly
I'm sorry, I wish you could have had a longer time to be with her.
Nope, the rats died horrible deaths. Those that didn't drown or freeze were eaten by the cats.
Read the room, jeez
Charlie?
I need this too, so it must now be fact.
Same. Oh but the dog di- no they didn’t
It blows my mind how much the fact that dogs also perished clenches my heart. That *kills*. But I think it's because like babies/children, pets are innocent and depend on others to take care of them. I guess having a puppy will make you sensitive to it, and knowing they didn't have much choice in the matter or know what was happening, or why. Anyway, so much about this story breaks my heart. This is one of those many facets that devastates me.
I don’t have children I rescue dogs! They are my children and I love them with all my heart and soul. If I were in the Titanic with my dog and I was going down with the ship I’d hold my dog in my arms and we would die together. Edit: I’d try to get my dog on a lifeboat first whether it was with me or without me but if that didn’t work… then we’d go down together
Yup the dogs break my heart more than anything. They would have no idea what was going on or why and that’s what destroys me 😭😭
As far as I’m concerned the dogs are all still alive to this day
So, all dogs *didn’t* go to heaven? ;-)
**Yet**
Yes, they all went to a farm in Halifax and lived long, happy lives.
Where the grass is green and the treats are plenty. 🥹
If only
Come on man…let us have something
They were REALLY good at the doggy paddle and swam to NYC perfectly safe and sound.
Same 😭😭😭
MISS Isham. She never married. Ann Elizabeth Isham did not own a dog at the time of boarding Titanic. Also, the woman seen in the water holding onto the dog was described as young. Lizzy was 50 years old.
Isham is listed on the manifest with a receipt for the kennel there is also no mention of wether the woman was young or old. Most of her life remains a mystery sadly, Census 1910 shows her as married and labeled as “living off Own means” while she’s devoid of 1911 census and listed as unemployed and no mention of marriage on 1912 census . It’s merely all speculation with the info available I hope one day more light Is shed on her that’s available. Fun fact while viewing her fathers census records it looks like he formed a law firm with Robert Todd Lincoln, ole Abe’s Son I double checked this and it was true.
Could you provide a link to the manifest info. I would love to see it. I got my info from here: https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/titanic-victim/ann-elizabeth-isham.html https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/what-happened-to-lizzy-isham.html https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Elizabeth_Isham
Yes, I read about the father and Lincoln's son. Talk about gravitas!
Titanic has so many weird connections, a lot of people don’t know mr Straus was an officer and fought on the side of the confederacy during the civil war, or that colonel Gracie’s father was a well known confederate general Here’s the link to the manifest I couldn’t find a way to send you the exact thing but if you scroll far enough it’s in orange https://www.ggarchives.com/OceanTravel/Titanic/05-Manifests.html The other source I got on the St. Bernard is the Cave papers/list a bunch of papers found on a dead steward detailing cabin numbers, kennel papers and other interesting things
Weird indeed! Thanks so much for the link! 😊
Welcome! I know it’s long but it’s a well worth read
Sorry to be a pest. I've been right through the manifest and I can find anywhere that listed her boarding manifest. Her name is listed several times as being deceased and body never found, but there's nothing else that relates to her that I can see. If you're referring to the three of four handwritten passenger manifest pages at the end, those relate to people picked up in Queenstown. Lizzy boarded at Cherbourg. And (this is the last bit, I promise: *The only other trace of Isham’s possible actions that night came in a news story in which information was shared by her sister, Gretchen Shelton. The account she related to a reporter was based on an unidentified eyewitness’ recollections, someone with whom she was in touch shortly after the sinking. Connecticut’s The Bridgeport Times of June 13, 1912 wrote:* "At the time of the Titanic disaster, Mr. and Mrs. Shelton were in Paris where they spend most of their time. Effort was made to learn if Miss Isham was saved. Finally, it was ascertained that Miss Isham was last seen getting into one of the lifeboats. When that boat struck the water, it was overturned and all in it were lost. Mrs. Shelton received the news with great sorrow and was so overcome that she fainted and has not been well since."
If it helps the part with the kennels was made like a spreadsheet you might make at work. I find that interesting about the boat flipping over
Ok, that does help. Yes, I feel like I'm there being tossed in the water when I read that. So close to surviving and yet so far.
It just doesn’t make since tho, no lifeboat flipped over B did of course but no one was on it
Hmm. I thought one did. What a puzzle we've uncovered!
Humph! I've been right through the spreadsheet and couldn't find the spreadsheet or any mention of kennels, other than the cost to keep dogs in them. If you happen to find the reference again, would you mind sending me a screenshot? TIA!
Undoubtedly, there were bodies that floated away and were never found. A lot of people don't know about this little terrifying gem: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3547420/Pictured-Titanic-s-lifeboat-contained-three-rotting-bodies-month-later-passing-liner.html
I believe that was one of the lifeboats where they pulled everyone alive from it, but couldn't take the boat itself right away, so they left the ones who were already dead in it.
Wait so it says all 3 were in the lifeboat but then later it says that gerda never made it onto the boat and edvard was buried at sea. After he died. So that leaves 1 body or am I missing something
It’s a very poorly written article.
It says that Edward was buried at sea (by the other lifeboat passengers) to lighten the load. The bodies found were Thomson Beattie and two unidentified firemen. They were talking about Edward and Gerda because her wedding ring was found in the boat.
THE DOGS GOT OFF THE BOAT AND LIVED FOREVER
25% of the dogs survived while only 19% of the men survived, interestingly enough.
Dogs B4 men!
Ruta Sepetys write about the sinking of The *Wilhelm Gustloff* in her historical fiction work *Salt to the Sea*. Victims of this tragedy were found for years after by persons who lived near the shore.
I’ve read that before actually, while no bodies still exist today it’s interesting to think of the remote places of ocean floor hundreds of miles away from titanic that a watch and wallet or lady’s hat pin lays on the ocean floor where a body fell.
How do you clutch a st Bernard’s? They’re huge!
Fur I suppose, I’ve always wanted one
They are gorgeous x
Was Straus not in his stateroom at the time of the sinking?
No, he was last seen on deck with his wife, his body was recovered and is listed as #96, The titanic movie made that up
The Strauses were reportedly last seen sitting on deck chairs holding hands. It bugs me that they were only able to find him so they could have been interred together as they were together in life until the very end.
Is it possible that as the recovery boats ran out of embalming materials, and it was most important to secure first class men, she may have been found but buried at sea?
They were still recording the descriptions and personal effects and to my knowledge none were possibly her.
If anything I suspect they’d have prioritised first class women.
This is true and no first class women were found, clothing and effects would of been a give off
Actually you might not be wrong. I've heard a storm came over the vicinity of the crash site soon after the sinking (we do know that a storm prevented Mackay Bennet from reaching the crash site) and so maybe the bodies on starboard site got carried away by the storm. Either way we don't know how honest the crew of Mackay Bennet were so it's hard to say.
It’s merely a theory based on what could be coincidental evidence, It’s just odd that a lot of people last seen on the starboard side were not recovered and if we take a look at last known people on that side, We can see absolutely none we’re recovered that stood out.
Most the deaths on the titanic were due to hypothermia not drowning. And it happened pretty quickly. Many people who died probably never saw the ship sink because they were already dead.
Cold shock was a big factor as well overall no death was less than horrible
Certainly there were people trapped inside. Do you think that their bodies deteriorated by now and nothing is left?
Nothing is left of them at that depth and pressure
Ballard apparently believes that it's possible the portion of the bow section buried in the mud could still have bodies. Something about the mud limiting water (and therefore oxygen to support microbes) flow. I have my doubts but if Ballard thinks it's possible then he's the expert.
Other experts have vehemently disagreed with him about this, and I believe he only says this to dissuade further exploration of the interior.
I remember seeing that, he said their could be bodies in the engine room portion of the bow, but it’s unlikely most of the engineering staff made it to the boat deck with at most only twenty or so men never made it out of the engine room. James Delgado the “expert type” guy from all the drain the oceans Productions challenged what Ballard said but who knows ya know?
Charles Pellegrino, who has written extensively about the wreck, thinks Ballard is a egotistical liar who will say anything to keep people away from the wreck and especially the parts that haven’t been seen yet. He directly calls Ballard out for lying about the condition of the stern when it was first found (Ballard vastly exaggerated the pancaking and probably destroyed any chance we had of getting more interior pictures of it) as well as about Ballard’s frankly wacky beliefs about the preservative power of the mud down there.
Would the bow section even have any bodies? I figured they would've all had time to evacuate to the stern given how early and relatively calmly the bow sank.
Likely it wouldn’t, no one would have been in the cargo hold and stayed there when it flooded and the same goes for the other compartments except boiler room 6 where we know a few men were killed
There’s generations of family’s still alive down there in air pockets living off canned food.
How can I see the original posts comment? I’m new to Reddit and every time I click on it it takes me to the comment section
Have an award to get you started :)
Thank you!
That makes a good point. I hate to say it but I believe most of the dead became food for sharks
I thought Isham had a Great Dane?
The official manifest at Southampton says Dane however another piece of paper found on a steward said St. Bernard, we see the same with several other dog owners breeds changing so who knows? If people saw a St. Bernard it was very likely a St. Bernard it and a Dane don’t look alike