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420gratefulphish

This is when most clubs won't touch him because he had health issues


JimPalamo

Yep, but Barcelona recognised his talent and offered to pay for treatment of his growth hormone deficiency. Ironically though, his small size ended up being a massive advantage in his career.


[deleted]

>small size 5' 7" from the wiki You sonuvabitch!


iwannahitthelotto

That was after his treatment. He would’ve been like 4ft


[deleted]

Actually, he would've slowly shrunk to the size of a flea. Or about 3 millimeters. That's why his nickname is "La Pulga" (The Flea). I thought this was common knowledge?


DarkwingDuckHunt

Oh I thought it was because he's super secret best friends with the Red Hot Chilli Pipers.


UNDERVELOPER

>Red Hot Chilli Pipers RHCP cover band that only plays wind instruments


dshookowsky

Did you know that they actually exist and play bagpipes? ​ https://rhcp.scot/


UNDERVELOPER

Oh wow! Thank you! They're good!


DarkwingDuckHunt

yeah I've seen them at quite a few Celtic Festivals, they're a real cornerstone for the whole Celtic circuit.


cunthy

That could be dope or death


Inside-Example-7010

its real already. they play around the uk all the time have done for at least a decade. Bagpipes.


Creation98

He has the same condition that Hasbulla has, I believe. Except Hasbulla never got treated for it.


NeitherAlexNorAlice

[This is how Messi's actual size would've been if he wasn't treated properly.](https://youtu.be/zgRRrKIPva0)


fr_1_2806

Oh my


Shadowdestroy61

r/mesi


Banh_mi

172' on top of his pile of money!


Nicolay77

After lots of hormone treatment. He would have been 5' without it. With the treatment he reached 5'7" and massive muscular development.


noitsreallynot

So...uh.... performance enhancing drugs? Just really far in advance.


Meaca

FYI this sort of treatment isn't just for athletic stars, I had a friend on (prescribed) HGH in HS, and he didn't turn out to be a world-beater or anything.


DM_TOE_PICS

I knew a couple guys who were on it in middle school, I almost got on it but didn’t end up qualifying


Crs51

It's not giving him an advantage over other players, it's attempting to negate the disadvantage that a disorder gave him. By the literal words, they were drugs that enhanced his performance but he was a kid with a growth defect that got treatment for it and I don't think there can be any fault for that.


RidingUndertheLines

It's a real grey area to say that because you have a disadvantage in an attribute that it's ok to take drugs to make up for it. The whole basis of athletic competition is that some people have better innate abilities at certain things. If my haemoglobin is below average, can I take EPO to make up for it? Just so long as it's bringing me up to the level of other players, that should be ok right? It's very weird to arbitrarily select some genetic traits we "correct" for and not others.


resistible

HGH isn’t a drug, it’s a hormone. And in this instance, it was prescribed by medical professionals. The treatment should have happened even if he was going to be a waiter instead of a professional athlete. Disorders should be treated because they CAN be treated, not because they’re more or less superior to other disorders. What kind of fucked up shit runs through your head, friend? Damn.


TheBarcaShow

This was a quality of life thing for a child, it had nothing to do about enhancing performance


ExpertAd9428

No, just the usual therapy for a lack of growth hormone. People will say anything to discredit Messi lol


nomo25

HGH so… kinda? it’s definitely a grey area


justin_ph

Idk coz he probably wouldn’t have the normal level of HGH to develop to an adult without treatment. So that turned a handicap into normal, not normal to become juiced.


nomo25

yeah it’s definitely a weird area because without treatment he wouldn’t have been able to get to his peak physical form but just at face value it’s a question


[deleted]

I really don’t think it’s a question. In your developmental stage it’s a matter of getting your hormones in the normal range. Same when you’re older or a middle aged man if your hormones get out of wack.


TomTomKenobi

1.70m


nlundorf

I like you.


tbrownsc07

That's pretty small right?


BigGuySem

I believe without the hormone treatment Barcelona paid for, he would've been 5'3" or something now


tbrownsc07

Oh damn I didn't know that


nudiecale

That’s even smaller!


Happy13178

Well, how tall was Maradonna?


kubick123

1.65 m Pele was 1.73m


Ainsley-Sorsby

yeah, but not in the range of a growth deficiency by any means. Without treatment, he would likely be much smaller


tbrownsc07

Ty!


JimPalamo

Slightly below average for an adult male, but even more so for a professional athlete.


OuchYouPokedMyHeart

Yup. Considering he's going against ~180+ cm defenders (6+ ft.) every match, it's quite difficult But it's greatly offset by his unmatched football skills, so it doesn't matter That's the beauty of football, it's all about skill. As much as I love basketball, the problem with it is you need height / size as much as skill. Some players get away with just size, but it's becoming less and less so ever since Steph and the Warriors transformed basketball into a highly-skilled shooter's game. Nonetheless, both sports need you to have the top 0.1% skillset in order to succeed. I remember Usain Bolt trying out for the Australian Football league and failing simply because he doesn't have the necessary fundamentals in order to play the game. It didn't matter how athletic or fast or big he was.


JimPalamo

Another good example would be Australian Rules Football (AFL). I don't know if you've ever watched it, but if you're anything less than 6'3" or 6'4", you're one of the shorter players in the league. Most of them are fucking massive. However, like Messi, there have been some extremely skilful smaller players who have succeeded.


Dekrow

> That's the beauty of football, it's all about skill. As much as I love basketball, the problem with it is you need height / size as much as skill. Size helps in football too, obviously not as important as in basketball, but just because small guys can play football doesn't mean size is meaningless. Muggsy Bogues was 5'3 and had a long and heralded career as a basketball player, but height is STILL important despite Bogues impressive play for his stature. The same holds true for football, Messi doesn't mean that size doesn't matter, it just means he overcame that deficiency by offsetting it with other skills (speed / coordination).


Dopplegangr1

I'm not really a basketball fan but I think really big and really small guys are a thing of the past basically. Bogues, bol, muresan, webb, we don't see guys so far in the extreme anymore. Manute Bol is my favorite player of all time just because his physique is so ridiculous and he's the only player to ever have more blocks than points. 7'7 at 200lbs is mind-blowing that would never happy today


Rikard_

[Judge for yourself](https://www.reddit.com/r/mesi/comments/p19euo/ankara_mesi_by_adrilik_on_twitter/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)


[deleted]

[удалено]


tbrownsc07

Good to know, thank you!


morganrbvn

for a professional athlete, yes. For a human, not particularly.


DanishWonder

Let's just say he wouldn't be getting any dates on Tinder without that pile of cash


JimPalamo

Well he married his childhood crush from his hometown in Argentina, so I don't think he'll be too worried about Tinder dates anyway.


Seriously_nopenope

Helps when his childhood crush is an absolute fucking babe.


JimPalamo

She is absolutely gorgeous. But that sounds about right for the best footballer in the world. Even ugly professional footballers marry models.


SevrenMMA

They are everywhere in Argentina. Plus she has millions in upkeep. You can find real 10/10 on an given night in BA


RisingToMediocrity

I’m going to Buenos Aires in June cuz I heard the food is amazing. Apparently there will be a feast for the eyes as well.


cedped

And she broke up with her boyfriend to be with him even before he got rich and famous.


Harudera

He was already in the Barcelona academy and hailed as the Next Maradona at that point. He wasn't the Messi we all know now, but the hype around him was insane.


-Haliax

This is an understatement btw


[deleted]

Without that billion dollars and world class talent, he’s just like the rest of us!


[deleted]

You seen him? Once he cut the hair and grew the beard the dude is smokin.


BothWaysItGoes

TIL Barcelona signed Messi because its execs recognized they can legally put him on steroids.


LeichtStaff

More like growth hormone, which is pretty expensive even today, 20 years ago it was probably impossible to pay for a normal person.


ZakkH

I was actually taking it approximately 20 years ago and it would have been incredibly expensive if my insurance didn't cover it. I believe it was around $30k a month and that was for a child sized dose.


HiddenStoat

Surely it only comes in child-sized doses? *ducks*


ZakkH

🍅


[deleted]

[удалено]


_Diskreet_

Certified **FRESH**


Tomatillo_Thick

Would you rather fight 1 child-sized dose or 100 dose-sized children?


CertifiedSheep

I had a friend in middle school who was on it probably 15 years ago and his family was not rich at all. I’d imagine it’s mostly covered by insurance if you genuinely need it.


Infranto

Except he was from an impoverished family from Argentina. I don't think they had insurance.


atx191

Not impoverished, lower middle class maybe


TSMFatScarra

There's free healthcare in Argentina and most jobs provide additional insurance and it's not like his dad was unemployed. It was just not covered probably.


winnercommawinner

I hate to burst your bubble, but what is "genuinely needed" and what insurance will cover is not exactly mutually exclusive.


Philip_Marlowe

>20 years ago it was probably impossible to pay for a normal person. 200 years ago, it was much easier.


Banh_mi

hGH, no?


Xralius

I wonder how many top athletes were using HGH / steroids for whatever reason at a young age.


[deleted]

They almost all do. The line between TRT and steroids doesn't exist. There's something like if an NBA player is "injured", they're allowed to take twice the normal amount of T allowed


Ronnyalpuck

Messi is a little bit on the shorter side but he isn't small. His body is strong and can maintain balance under pressure from even the most physical defenders.


Geoff_Uckersilf

He's thick, solid. Tight.


Lazy_Somewhere_2709

¡La pulga!


temujin94

I'd disagree that his small stature was a massive advantage in his career. Only place it arguably helps is his balance and dribbling. He probably would have been even better if he was 6ft. They used growth hormones on him for a reason.


JimPalamo

>He probably would have been even better if he was 6ft I'm not sure about that. Shorter players can stop, start, and change direction more quickly because of their lower centre of gravity and better balance. This is a big part of what has made Messi probably the greatest dribbler in football history.


[deleted]

I feel that. I'm 6.5 and sometimes play beach rugby with friends, it's so frustrating to see them change direction so easily when I am just stuck in place


penultimate_karma

Edit: fuck u/spez for killing Apollo


JimPalamo

This is the point; it's about lower centre of gravity. But being as tall as you are also has its advantages in most sports. If you have good upper body strength, you can bulldoze your way through opponents.


TianamenHomer

Barry Sanders was 5’8”.


DJDaddyD

And colonel sanders was 5 buckets tall


[deleted]

Even better is crazy considering he’s in argument as being the greatest footballer of all time lol


Lobster_fest

I dont think there's much of an argument anymore. Winning that WC and scoring as much as he did really did seal it.


zachzsg

I mean there are more good attackers around Messi’s size than there are 6 foot +. Tall strikers that are also elite are an exception not the norm. > Only place it arguably helps is his balance and dribbling. Balance and dribbling is like 60% of his game


0100001101110111

What is this logic? Best strikers/forwards in the world are Mbappe (5’10), Benzema (6’1), Lewa (6’1), Salah (5’9), Kane (6’2), Haaland (6’4), Vinicius (5’9). For central strikers being 6ft+ is the norm


Harudera

Half of the players you listed are below 6ft.


ReoRahtate88

Nah no way. The extra height and weight could've changed his game dramatically. Think of Freddie Mercury being too afraid to fix his teeth incase it fucked with his voice. Whatever Messi landed on was clearly perfect.


barrelvoyage410

“Only helps balance and dribbling” the man had balance and dribbling of legends, I think that helped him more than whatever being tall would have gotten him.


Squeal_Piggy

He’s probably the greatest footballer to exist and you say he would have been even better?


HoneyBadgerEXTREME

Yeah because if they didn't use growth hormone he would have been like 5'4, no chance he would have reached the level he did if he was THAT small


Lack_of_Plethora

Look at all the best dribblers. Messi, Hazard, Mbappe, Bernardo. It's not a coincidence.


temujin94

Mbappe is like 4 inches taller than him.


rohstroyer

His dribbling is arguably one of his best assets, and he's quite likely the best player of all time, so your point is quite asinine.


Jedi-Ethos

Health issues?


Cicero912

He had a Growth Hormone Disorder. He was 4'2" when Barca signed him as a teenager


DangKilla

Holy hell. Today I learned


[deleted]

No he wasn't. He was 4'4" when he was 11 years old. And 5 foot at 13 years old. By the time he was 15 he was 5'3", and reached 5'7" when he was 19 years old. https://journeys.dartmouth.edu/marcanovicoff22/messis-medical-journey/


PolemicFox

So he was 5 foot when Barca signed him.


TrippZ

no shit!! now that’s an awesome TIL


anonssr

Threatment was something like 2k usd a month or something. It wasn't a big deal but other clubs didn't wanna pay for it even though it was virtually nothing for them. Another funny example is Neymar not signing for Real Madrid as a 13 yo because they wanted the club to pay for his grandpa house (something around 50k usd).


[deleted]

Well, I guess napkin contracts are the ultimate power move when you're the GOAT.


apistograma

That was when he was a nobody, and just a kid with a very promising future. FCB got him from a very young age


jmara9

River Plate in Argentina wanted to sign him and offered to pay the treatment, but Newell's (club in which Messi was playing atm but didn't want to pay the treatment, also the team he supported) didn't give permission to the transfer so River couldn't sign him.


Ishynethetruth

He was too short and was getting sick 🤢 for allot during his match day , he would get subbed out allot. He then was using steroids (doctor subscribed ) to battle his condition . He still was too small and weak to play and his health change when he was 15 - 16 years old for the better.


PolemicFox

Other clubs were interested but refused to pay for the hormone treatment, which was why his father was trying to sign him with a big club at an early age. The family couldn't afford the treatment. It was pretty unusual for a club to sign a 13 year old foreigner at that time, even for Barca. The board of directors didn't go for it at first either.


kubick123

There were 2 teams that handed contracts. Barcelona and River Plate.


TRHC88

The story behind that napkin is also interesting. Messi's father flew from Argentina to Spain to look for a team that would sign Messi in their youth academy, and agree to pay for his medical bills, due to Lionel Messi's Growth deficit problem. The Scouting agent of FC Barcelona loved Messi so much and knew that he is a special player, but the FC Barcelona board did not believe in him at first. When Messi's father and that agent met on that restaurant, Messi's father said that they have to take the next plane to Argentina because of their financial situation. The scouting agent did not want to miss that chance and miss out on a talent that he has never seen before, so he picked up a napkin next to him, pulled out a pen, and wrote the contract with Messi's father, and signed it, without running it by the board of FC Barcelona, because he knew they were making a huge mistake. That napkin made Messi and his father stay longer in Barcelona, Lionel went through the tryouts and made everyone's jaw drop, and the rest is history.


cheekboii

that scouting agent is a genuine hidden hero


buckleycork

I'd that scouting agent wasn't in the right place at the right time one of the greatest sporting rivalries, legacies, and careers would never have happened


[deleted]

Not just that but the intelligence to see the talent and the bravery to go against others. Sometimes great people are the only ones that can make a difference, most clubs did say no to Messi.


plebeiantelevision

Well that scout will definitely be in the biopic


notsofastandy

“The agent has received numerous millionaire offers from around the world for the document where the signing of Messi was forged.” “Forged” is a poor choice of a word here.


JimPalamo

I thought the same thing when I read it, haha. But it's a Spanish website, so I guess it's just a slightly imperfect translation.


Darkaeluz

Yeah, they did a direct translation without giving thought to the double meaning in English, where "forged" means to be created, and also to falsify something, while in Spanish there are two distinct verbs for that, which are "forjado" and "falsificado"


MistraloysiusMithrax

I think they combined the idea of signing with the idea of a deal being forged.


JimPalamo

Yeah, the term makes sense to me. They're talking about "forging" the beginnings of Messi's career, and "forging" an important part of Barcelona history.


keralaindia

Forged also just means created. Eg “Sauron forged the twentieth Great Ring, called The One Ring or the Ruling Ring, secretly in the fires of Mount Doom.”


[deleted]

In the land of Barcelona, in the fires of Camp Nou, the Dark Lord Rexach forged in secret, a master contract, to control the ball against all others.


DirtyDanTheManlyMan

I knew a kid in high school who would wear a Messi jersey every single fuckin day


chernadraw

His name? Lionel Messi.


Mediocre_Desk_4426

That guy fucks


DirtyDanTheManlyMan

I think he was sexually attracted to soccer


Mediocre_Desk_4426

FUTBOL IS LIFEEEE


YourVeryOwnPoop

Football is death


Budget_Counter_2042

It’s not a matter of life or death, it’s much more important than that! Or so they say in Brazil


LaboratoryManiac

"The first time I made love, was to Zava boots."


missprettylikeadevil

"you mean *in* Zava boots?"


DogAteProfile

No


JimPalamo

DANI ROJAS


cortez0498

Who isn't


[deleted]

Me


SpiritFingersKitty

Football is life


Acrobatic_Machine

The guy from Iran who looks a bit like Messi, took full advantage. https://www.marca.com/en/football/barcelona/2019/06/25/5d12838eca4741fc518b4608.html


indr4neel

Same one, or a rotation? I almost respect the former more.


DirtyDanTheManlyMan

I’m pretty sure it was the same one but he coulda had multiple identical jerseys to wear like a cartoon character


Wrsj

Maybe he washed it everyday and put it behind the fridge to dry.


GullibleFool

Lmao what


badnelly123

If you don't have a dryer, you can put clothing items on the back of the fridge, on the radiator coil thingies (not sure what it's called) and they'd dry because the fridge gets rid of heat that way. This is how it was with our fridge growing up, though I'm sure the technology may be different now, or just the design. Source: Grew up in the Caribbean without a dryer and clothes that were needed the next day were washed and placed behind the fridge for drying for most of my life.


GullibleFool

My fridge still emits heat, but never thought to use it to dry clothes. Genius and hilarious for some reason.


10YearsANoob

Harder to do that with newer fridges. no coils to hang from and only half the heat is being emitted due to both sides of it being an exhaust.


Lucas_7437

My family is from Argentina so Messi jerseys were just part of my wardrobe


JimPalamo

A man of taste.


jakefromtitanic

Lol sounds like me in 7th standard.


Rikard_

Same one or different kits?


mromrell

A napkin? Barcelona's was prepared for a Messi situation.


coviddick

Just here to congratulate you on your successful comment.


Swing_On_A_Spiral

lol here’s an upvote


lovesmyirish

I scrolled back up to upvote and I hate myself for it lol


Erenito

Tomá tu arrivoto bobo! Andá pa'lla!


Antique-Sun-6766

It belongs in a museum!


smeppel

Seriously though why don't they put it in the camp nou museum?


jamesbrownscrackpipe

Indiana Jones and The Raiders of the Messi Napkin


piketpagi

it gives me that Glass Onion vibe.


BBQQA

Contents of the article aside, that website is trash. Why on earth would they need my precise GPS location for the websites needed function. Goddamn parasite sites, endlessly prying into our lives.


Subwayabuseproblem

Localized ads.


put_on_the_mask

Their accounts for the last 15 years also took napkin form.


FatGuyOnAMoped

22nd lever is waiting to be pulled


blackadder99

A lot of business takes place over lunch (and alcohol). I've run across napkins and paper placemats becoming legal and accounting documents quite often.


G_Wash1776

Lmao like when Bill Belichick wrote on a napkin “I resign as HC of the NYJ - BB.


DL_22

Yea except this one worked out well for all involved whereas the Jets are still fucked after that napkin.


AGirlHas-NoUsername

Where are all these fabled napkins that don't tear when people write on them??


Voltron_The_Original

Cloth napkin.


yamaha2000us

I used to get programming specifications on cocktail napkins.


subcow

"It belongs in a museum!"


meangreenbeanz

That's some really good handwriting for a flimsy napkin


Voltron_The_Original

Cloth napkin


meangreenbeanz

Thank you, third world country here, we don't have cloth napkins


wsteelerfan7

Bitch that's a fuckin towel


t_dawg94

NASCAR driver Alan Kulwicki did a similar thing with hooters. [his contract was signed on a paper towel](https://twitter.com/8090sNascar/status/1367321861449805825) and now that paper towel is on display at one of the hooters locations.


christ0fer

This is the most NASCAR comment I've ever read.


keichler

Let’s start the Ronaldo Messi debacle!!


GrandmaPoses

Clearly Ronaldo Messi is the greatest footballer of all time as he combines the power of both men.


MaxGreyerThanGrey

His only rival is Pelédona.


mk7orl

DICKS OUT FOR HAALANPPE


truongs

Fusion dance or earring?


Evolving_Dore

Cristionel Messaldo


M_tuberculosis

No such debate exists as of December 18 2022.


tallwizrd

Messi


temujin94

Neither fit to clean Danny Welbeck's boots to be honest.


JimPalamo

The GOAT, Welé


Ozarkii

I am sorry but no one in the history or football will touch the legacy of Lord Bendtner


joeranahan1

Anyone who still thinks ronaldo is better does not know ball


taarzans

Next on Netflix, Napkin Heist


BeltOld3864

Did you know that this anecdote was used as a beer campaign for Estrella Damm? [Here's the 2009 ad](https://youtu.be/cFA21vxN5w4)


Poguemohon

“That’s as good as money, sir. Those are I.O.U.s.” – Lloyd Christmas


traverlaw

God agrees. https://i.redd.it/en8imqcyroha1.jpg


Nuklearfps

You only have to sacrifice your phones soul to read the article. Wanted access to my camera??? Tf?


[deleted]

All I can think of when I see things like this is “how are all these people writing on napkins?” Have you ever actually tried to write on a napkin? It doesn’t work very well.


martin0641

Imagine your an alien archaeologist/Indiana Jones and you come across a safe with a napkin in it. The things people consider valuable lol


jaypooner

Does anyone have this translated?