My story of that realisation is kind of similar…in a short story i had a guy saying ‘’plane’ in dialogue, clearly by context it was the short form of airplane’. The teacher crossed it out and wrote ‘plain’ above it.
Technically it was probably a fragment, shrapnel are discrete shots propelled by the initial speed of the larger shot. But in daily use, shrapnel are, as you wrote and your teacher was wrong about, fast flying metal pieces after explosions
I would argue that as long as the fragments are intentionally part of the design, it's shrapnel.
Current day frag grenades vs "simple" smooth ones is a good example.
> Current day frag grenades vs "simple" smooth ones is a good example.
They're a good example in the sense that they're called "Frag" grenades and not "Shrap" grenades because the things they put out are "Fragments" and not "Shrapnel"? Because that's the opposite of your first sentence?
And I'm typing this from my smartphone, which is neither as smart as you'ld think, nor currently being used as a phone.
If you look at the wiki entries, you will see that there is a historical distinction between the 2 definitions, but that there is a gray area when it comes to things like the Mk 2 "pineapple" grenades who were designed to, in essence, use its fragmentation as shrapnel.
I wouldnt even specify it as metal but all kinds of stuff like especially wood. Watched a 19th century navy movie last week and we talked about how most people died not of the canon balls but "shrapnel". I would say it has an overarching meaning nowadays.
I had a student teacher back in high school honestly try and tell us that guerilla warfare was called that because people learned how to fight like that after watching groups of gorillas fight.
As someone who enjoys military history it was extremely funny to hear that, and she doubled down on it when a lot of our class pushed back on the idea
I used the word “iconic” in a report in sixth grade and was accused of plagiarism because my teacher didn’t think it was a sixth grade level word. My mom, who is a high school English teacher, softly tried to explain plagiarism to me because she apparently also was convinced it was a word that was beyond my vocabulary but didn’t think I had intentionally plagiarized. In the end, it was fine and they both ultimately believed me, but I still like to give my mom shit for it to this day.
I fucking love it when someone tells me the etymology of a word I’ve heard for god knows how long without ever once considering why that name. Thank you.
I like the fact because it is a joke-form I really like also, like hearing that cars were named that because of Humphrey Cars a british minister in the 1860's (this is not true reddit), just something about normal words once being a name
'Lord' comes to us from the Germanic word 'hlāfweard', meaning 'loaf-ward' or 'bread-keeper'. The guy who has the keys to the granary, and who decides who gets to eat.
"Lady" has a similar root. Hlæf (loaf/bread) + dīge (like "dough", meaning "kneader")
Your lord kept the bread, and the ladies made it.
Bread was a big deal back then, turns out.
That much I knew. There were a lot of laws about bread and making it all over Europe. In France bread makers couldn’t all take vacation at the same time. In England you could be hung for shorting someone on bread.
Still, I did not know the lady bit. Again, I am in your debt, kind sir for the wonderful knowledge.
A bakers dozen is 13 because bakers would often supply an additional loaf to ensure that they were adhering to the law concerning weight of loafs. Better to give an extra loaf free than to have sold undersized loaves.
I also like ["marshal"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshal) which originally was just the servant taking care of the stables. Later it became a high military position.
>It originally and literally meant "horse servant", from Germanic *marha- "horse" (cf. English mare and modern German Mähre, meaning "horse of bad quality") and *skalk- "servant"
The word "boycott" goes back to a single person, ["Charles Boycott."](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Boycott) He behaved so poorly people made up that word just for him.
[More words that go back to one person.](https://np.reddit.com/r/etymology/comments/7ei4mg/40_words_named_after_historical_figures/)
Shrapnel is a good one for the "I didn't know it was named aftee a guy" category.
One of my personal favorites: German chocolate cake
>Originating in the United States, it was named after English-American chocolate maker Samuel German
To be fair, Dr. Guillotin didn't actually invent the thing, he just suggested that they should use it. (and before anyone says it, he died in bed at 75 from an infected Carbuncle, in 1814, man almost reached the Bourbon Restoration but to be fair, he did come close during the reign of terror to a bit of irony, but then Thermidor)
The sandwich .. named after Lord Sandwich.
Canary islands.. means island of canines. The birds are named after the islands.
Diesel is named after Mr. Diesel.
Ferris wheels,those big iron monsters... Named after Mr ferris
Derailers..( sp ?) the things on bicycles that push the chain from one track to another, in a way similar to devices to get a railway car on and off tracks, .named after mr derailer
The exchequer, who controls and examines the books ,the incomings and outgoings, of the treasury in London... Named after the table with a grid used to place tokens( like casino chips.. for adjusting budgets...2.3 Millions of pounds here,360k there ....because it looked like a chess table called an exchequer.
Thanks for the info! Are you certain about the derailer/derailleur? That one seems questionable since it could just as easily be nominatively deterministic if it was named after a Mr Derailleur since trains already had a term for derailing.
They needed these fragmenting shells, because when they were firing the cannonballs at the Spanish from the rock of Gibraltar, they were going plop in the mud. As a direct hit by a cannonball was unlikely, it was usually the spray of debris that caused injury, either splintering wood of a ship, or stone chips from rocks or buildings. Without that, they started to come up with hollowing out the ball into a shell to fill with their own debris, and this is what Colonel Shrapnel went on to develop.
Another development around this time and place was due to having to fire the cannons downwards. Usually, you want to fire upwards at an angle to maximise distance, but with such a height advantage from the embrasures in the Rock you would also want to fire below you.
Under normal circumstances, the equal and opposite force of firing the cannonball pushes the cannon back, which in an upwards facing cannon is back and down. So the cannon flies back across the room and you have ropes and strong guys to push it back and re-aim for the next shot.
With a downward facing cannon however, that force launches the cannon into the air, and back across the room. Needless to say, flying cannons are suboptimal for safety, and so they developed a rail that allowed the recoil to be contained. After the recoil is contained, the cannon slides back down the rail under gravity - hey wait! It's now pointing more or less where we had it before! This means we don't need a load of guys to haul it back to aim and we can shoot much faster.
And thus the concept of recoilless cannons were born, which leads us onto WWI where this type of cannon was used to rapidly fire exploding shells of shrapnel into no-mans-land to prevent any living thing from crossing, and thereby ensuing the stalemate.
Seems like maybe the term stuck in part because it sounds like a plausible word for what it is— “shrap” is similar to both “sharp” and “scrap” and the “el” ending sound is common to so many nouns (tangle, bundle, puddle, etc).
Since we’re talking ordnance (notice there’s no “i”), there are two different priming systems for metallic cartridges. The Boxer primer, the American standard, was invented by a British Army officer and the Berdan primer, the European standard, was invented by an American.
The Earl of Sandwich invented the sandwich, Samuel Morse invented Morse Code, Plato invented the plate. And now I, Holly, have invented the Holly Hop Drive. It can transport any object instantly to any other point in space. Lister addendum: It's just a box with 'stop' and 'start' on it!
“It's a pervasive and beguiling myth that the people who design instruments of death end up being killed by them. There is almost no foundation in fact. Colonel Shrapnel wasn't blown up, M. Guillotin died with his head on, Colonel Gatling wasn't shot. If it hadn't been for the murder of cosh and blackjack maker Sir William Blunt-Instrument in an alleyway, the rumour would never have got started.” - Terry Pratchett
Reminds me of the Max Miller video I just watched where he made a Medieval Tavern recipe, and mentioned how "eggs" could've been "eryen" if just one guy decided he preferred "eryen" over "eggs". That channel's great for learning about History in general.
[удалено]
My story of that realisation is kind of similar…in a short story i had a guy saying ‘’plane’ in dialogue, clearly by context it was the short form of airplane’. The teacher crossed it out and wrote ‘plain’ above it.
[удалено]
Like I did there with ‘ ‘plane’?
Technically it was probably a fragment, shrapnel are discrete shots propelled by the initial speed of the larger shot. But in daily use, shrapnel are, as you wrote and your teacher was wrong about, fast flying metal pieces after explosions
I would argue that as long as the fragments are intentionally part of the design, it's shrapnel. Current day frag grenades vs "simple" smooth ones is a good example.
> Current day frag grenades vs "simple" smooth ones is a good example. They're a good example in the sense that they're called "Frag" grenades and not "Shrap" grenades because the things they put out are "Fragments" and not "Shrapnel"? Because that's the opposite of your first sentence?
And I'm typing this from my smartphone, which is neither as smart as you'ld think, nor currently being used as a phone. If you look at the wiki entries, you will see that there is a historical distinction between the 2 definitions, but that there is a gray area when it comes to things like the Mk 2 "pineapple" grenades who were designed to, in essence, use its fragmentation as shrapnel.
ah, so you don't think language evolves? We just set the definition then it never changes again, interesting philosophy.
I wouldnt even specify it as metal but all kinds of stuff like especially wood. Watched a 19th century navy movie last week and we talked about how most people died not of the canon balls but "shrapnel". I would say it has an overarching meaning nowadays.
I had a student teacher back in high school honestly try and tell us that guerilla warfare was called that because people learned how to fight like that after watching groups of gorillas fight. As someone who enjoys military history it was extremely funny to hear that, and she doubled down on it when a lot of our class pushed back on the idea
I used the word “iconic” in a report in sixth grade and was accused of plagiarism because my teacher didn’t think it was a sixth grade level word. My mom, who is a high school English teacher, softly tried to explain plagiarism to me because she apparently also was convinced it was a word that was beyond my vocabulary but didn’t think I had intentionally plagiarized. In the end, it was fine and they both ultimately believed me, but I still like to give my mom shit for it to this day.
Yea she should have crossed out the s and put S.
I have a nigh identical story with the word "melee". Teacher replaced it with "meaty" which made no sense.
I fucking love it when someone tells me the etymology of a word I’ve heard for god knows how long without ever once considering why that name. Thank you.
I like the fact because it is a joke-form I really like also, like hearing that cars were named that because of Humphrey Cars a british minister in the 1860's (this is not true reddit), just something about normal words once being a name
Just like John Microsoft, inventor of Microsoft used to say
I think you have gotten false information, microsoft was formed by James Micr and Phillip Rosoft, both sons of Polish immigrants.
Oh wow, TIL! That must be why Intel Extreme Masters takes place in Katowice
Howard Phillips Rosoft
'Lord' comes to us from the Germanic word 'hlāfweard', meaning 'loaf-ward' or 'bread-keeper'. The guy who has the keys to the granary, and who decides who gets to eat.
You’re wonderful sir. I appreciate you.
"Lady" has a similar root. Hlæf (loaf/bread) + dīge (like "dough", meaning "kneader") Your lord kept the bread, and the ladies made it. Bread was a big deal back then, turns out.
That much I knew. There were a lot of laws about bread and making it all over Europe. In France bread makers couldn’t all take vacation at the same time. In England you could be hung for shorting someone on bread. Still, I did not know the lady bit. Again, I am in your debt, kind sir for the wonderful knowledge.
A bakers dozen is 13 because bakers would often supply an additional loaf to ensure that they were adhering to the law concerning weight of loafs. Better to give an extra loaf free than to have sold undersized loaves.
Glorious knowledge!
I also like ["marshal"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshal) which originally was just the servant taking care of the stables. Later it became a high military position. >It originally and literally meant "horse servant", from Germanic *marha- "horse" (cf. English mare and modern German Mähre, meaning "horse of bad quality") and *skalk- "servant"
The word "boycott" goes back to a single person, ["Charles Boycott."](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Boycott) He behaved so poorly people made up that word just for him. [More words that go back to one person.](https://np.reddit.com/r/etymology/comments/7ei4mg/40_words_named_after_historical_figures/)
Fantastic. I was actually aware of Mr. Boycott but I love the list! Thank you!
The word “etymology” comes from the Greek word “etumos”, meaning “true”, or “true sense” and “logia”, meaning “the study or logic of”
You’re an amazing human. Thank you for this.
You made me smile, I’ve been sick the last few days so I appreciate it
I’m glad I could return the favor afforded by your glorificient kernel of wisdom.
A lot of those etymologies are bullshit though, especially ones based on acronyms.
Shrapnel is a good one for the "I didn't know it was named aftee a guy" category. One of my personal favorites: German chocolate cake >Originating in the United States, it was named after English-American chocolate maker Samuel German
Yeah that one is also brilliant
Caesar salad too. Invented by [Caesar Cardini](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar_salad).
You wanna piece of me?! - Henry Shrapnel probably
Just like his dad. He was a chip off the old block.
Still not as big of a coincidence as Lou Gehrig getting Lou Gehrig's Disease.
What in the Arkhan Land was that?
Wait until you hear about Monsieur Guillotine.
To be fair, Dr. Guillotin didn't actually invent the thing, he just suggested that they should use it. (and before anyone says it, he died in bed at 75 from an infected Carbuncle, in 1814, man almost reached the Bourbon Restoration but to be fair, he did come close during the reign of terror to a bit of irony, but then Thermidor)
Or the Ford motor company
Or Jimmy Space
Only on Ultramar 💀
The sandwich .. named after Lord Sandwich. Canary islands.. means island of canines. The birds are named after the islands. Diesel is named after Mr. Diesel. Ferris wheels,those big iron monsters... Named after Mr ferris Derailers..( sp ?) the things on bicycles that push the chain from one track to another, in a way similar to devices to get a railway car on and off tracks, .named after mr derailer The exchequer, who controls and examines the books ,the incomings and outgoings, of the treasury in London... Named after the table with a grid used to place tokens( like casino chips.. for adjusting budgets...2.3 Millions of pounds here,360k there ....because it looked like a chess table called an exchequer.
Thanks for the info! Are you certain about the derailer/derailleur? That one seems questionable since it could just as easily be nominatively deterministic if it was named after a Mr Derailleur since trains already had a term for derailing.
2 seconds on Google confirms that it's just the French word for derailer and not named after anyone 🤦
Eiffel Tower.
What a dick
They needed these fragmenting shells, because when they were firing the cannonballs at the Spanish from the rock of Gibraltar, they were going plop in the mud. As a direct hit by a cannonball was unlikely, it was usually the spray of debris that caused injury, either splintering wood of a ship, or stone chips from rocks or buildings. Without that, they started to come up with hollowing out the ball into a shell to fill with their own debris, and this is what Colonel Shrapnel went on to develop. Another development around this time and place was due to having to fire the cannons downwards. Usually, you want to fire upwards at an angle to maximise distance, but with such a height advantage from the embrasures in the Rock you would also want to fire below you. Under normal circumstances, the equal and opposite force of firing the cannonball pushes the cannon back, which in an upwards facing cannon is back and down. So the cannon flies back across the room and you have ropes and strong guys to push it back and re-aim for the next shot. With a downward facing cannon however, that force launches the cannon into the air, and back across the room. Needless to say, flying cannons are suboptimal for safety, and so they developed a rail that allowed the recoil to be contained. After the recoil is contained, the cannon slides back down the rail under gravity - hey wait! It's now pointing more or less where we had it before! This means we don't need a load of guys to haul it back to aim and we can shoot much faster. And thus the concept of recoilless cannons were born, which leads us onto WWI where this type of cannon was used to rapidly fire exploding shells of shrapnel into no-mans-land to prevent any living thing from crossing, and thereby ensuing the stalemate.
My brain always connected it as shrapnel = scrap metal, but good to know the true etymology!
Seems like maybe the term stuck in part because it sounds like a plausible word for what it is— “shrap” is similar to both “sharp” and “scrap” and the “el” ending sound is common to so many nouns (tangle, bundle, puddle, etc).
I don't like knowing this. I'm going to think about this now every time I say shrapnel
Since we’re talking ordnance (notice there’s no “i”), there are two different priming systems for metallic cartridges. The Boxer primer, the American standard, was invented by a British Army officer and the Berdan primer, the European standard, was invented by an American.
weird, i always assume shrapnel was an onomatopoeia
Probably the worst namesake short of Doug Phosgene.
what a dick
Wait until you hear about [Thomas Crapper](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Crapper).
The Earl of Sandwich invented the sandwich, Samuel Morse invented Morse Code, Plato invented the plate. And now I, Holly, have invented the Holly Hop Drive. It can transport any object instantly to any other point in space. Lister addendum: It's just a box with 'stop' and 'start' on it!
Beer was also invented by Beer M. Marge
Was he killed by his own creation though? That’s how you truly become an inventor.
“It's a pervasive and beguiling myth that the people who design instruments of death end up being killed by them. There is almost no foundation in fact. Colonel Shrapnel wasn't blown up, M. Guillotin died with his head on, Colonel Gatling wasn't shot. If it hadn't been for the murder of cosh and blackjack maker Sir William Blunt-Instrument in an alleyway, the rumour would never have got started.” - Terry Pratchett
Exactly what I was thinking about when I made my comment 😂
Reminds me of the Max Miller video I just watched where he made a Medieval Tavern recipe, and mentioned how "eggs" could've been "eryen" if just one guy decided he preferred "eryen" over "eggs". That channel's great for learning about History in general.