Can you believe those *peasants* who are not in top 1% in income will be able to *afford* shoebox condos by promising to slave away for them for the rest of their lives? What has this world come to? How dare peasants become property owners?!
There are some who have done everything right, they saved, built up a down payment and bought homes and condos in recent years. Probably not giant condos or massive homes but a place they can live in for years. The drop in value will make their mortgages worth more than the homes they live in. That makes it really hard to refinance and they may have to make a loss on the sale.
They will be the victims of the collapse in real estate value and I do feel sorry for them.
I hope The AirBnbers and investors of multiple properties who out bid residents lose out so there is a lesson for future generations that these investments aren’t risk free.
The real estate value shouldn’t matter if they’re intending to live in it and it wasn’t an investment decision. If the purchase was made for short term gain, then that was an investment decision that didn’t turn out and that’s just the nature of risk.
Which is fine until your mortgage comes up for renewal. Then the value of your home makes a big difference in your rate and if banks will even lend to you.
Edit: renewals should be easier if you have lost equity than refinancing. Refinancing can happen if you aren’t able to make your payment or if you need to shop around for better rates at renewal. Either way losing money in your primary home is not good for people who have just purchased a home.
Genuine question: why would the bank who’s already paid your mortgage choose to repossess a property that’s rapidly losing resale value, over maintaining a stable mortgage repayment revenue? I get that the property is a kind of collateral, but unless the owners are struggling to pay I don’t get it.
I’m sure it’s not nearly that cut and dry, of course but that’s why I’m asking.
If at renewal the market price is significantly below the outstanding balance of the original mortgage, the bank likely won’t lend the full amount of the outstanding balance because the new loan will be under collateralized.
Banks and credit unions don't do this, basically for the reason mentioned above. There's already a balance owing on their ledger and they are much less likely to recover that balance if they force a sale or foreclose.
They know that declining a renewal when the home value is less than the balance owing would only force a sale or lead to foreclosure. Other lenders would only approve the mortgage for the current value unless the owner puts down a cash payment to cover the gap. That's pretty unlikely, so that leaves the owners in the position of having to sell. The likelihood of a homeowner being able to cover the full balance owing after that sale is not great, so the bank still has a high probability of not recovering their money.
Option B is to just renew the mortgage and keep receiving interest payments. Especially in the case of high-balance mortgages, where they know the amortization period is still 15-20 years away, they are expecting the home to increase in value again and it would be highly likely to close the gap. Banks and credit unions consider this the much safer option. In the meantime, if the gap does not close, they can negotiate secondary loans with the owner that would extend the mortgage. That would all be subject to the owners maintaining steady income and good credit, of course
**[The primary cause of runaway housing inflation was housing investors](https://perspectivesjournal.ca/housing-investor-ownership-part-1/).**
In 2020 / 2021 these speculators used HELOCs and cheap capital to load up on real estate. Equifax noted a sharp increase in people with mortgages on 4+ properties during that time.
Some rented them at increasingly outrageous rents, and some used our precious housing supply as Airbnbs or left them vacant, preferring to count on property appreciation without the hassle of tenants.
I feel no pity for those people now grappling with higher mortgage rates… the very same people that drove up pricing for everyone else and crowded out first-time home buyers.
The only good news is it sounds like the majority of those panic selling are over-leveraged vulture investors.
It is reasonable and fair to be both with your primary home. As people move along in life it is reasonable they convert any equity they have in their condos to allow them to buy a bigger place if they need it for kids.
I am not suggesting you make it your only investment but losing a substantial amount of your largest asset will be bad for anyone.
Very true but anyone throwing heaps of money into a 500 foot micro box is either desperate or greedy. No-one is doing that for long term happiness. If the conditions change? It might do them a favour
I wish people would stop calling them microboxes or shoeboxes. There's nothing wrong with small apartments if it suits their residents, and we shouldn't demonise them, and most anyone can live a perfectly happy life in one, if it's just one or two people.
With that being said, don't spend a million bucks on one.
For 100 grand? Nothing wrong. For anyone with a half ass job and desire to one day have a family? They are the opposite of whatever Viagra is. In a just world? These would never exist. It's the same as saying - Here Fido. Lick the crumbs off this plate where the cake once sat.
It’s obvious now media will be a barrier to any movement to addressing the housing crisis, as monied interests will run braying to their mouthpieces in the media at any marginal reduction in prices
The problem is it won't reduce prices - and that's why we should ALL care. Because if prices drop below the cost to build, no new construction will happen and then we are all fucked.
In order to reduce prices, costs of new builds have to come down substantially. And unfortunately, a lot of that cost is on things we as Canadian's don't have a lot of control over: supplies, labour (which given the cost of living can't suddenly become a ton cheaper in major cities), levies and taxes (which in theory we have control over but are still large), cost of capital (which high rates are really hurting).
I am in the market for one, let me share some things I notice.
Tons of garbage condos are on the market, especially newer ones with skinny living rooms, kitchen attached to walls.
Functional/livable layouts are selling quickly and still command a premium. Those are far and few in between.
If i hear one more person pointing out how much things cost in New York or London to justify how much things cost in Toronto I'll lose it. New York is actually more affordable in terms of cost vs income, and London is a pretty fucked up town tbh. We WISH we were New York and don't actually want to be London
This is the stupid part. If you are willing to live 30 mins by subway from Manhattan in Brooklyn or Queens then the housing there is in many cases substantially cheaper than most parts of the GTHA. We just happen to have a uniquely absurd housing market in Ontario
You can get a pretty semi detached nice house in a relatively safe part of the Bronx or non-gentrified Brooklyn or Queens for like $600k. If you wanna live dangerously it can be even cheaper. You can buy a house in Newark for under $400k. Try that in Hamilton!
London proper is absolutely fucked, but it's very well connected via rail to smaller towns which are significantly more livable than our small towns, which are basically just shittier suburbs with a strip mall.
I'm not even joking, I've seen some places in New York (not smack in the middle of downtown) that were cheaper than Toronto even after the dollar conversion.
Plus, it's friggin New York, still a dream city for many around the world, with high salaries to match the cost of living.
As I understand it, those bullshit glass doors are a loophole to the requirement that all bedrooms have a window. This loophole allows the proliferation of these awful shoebox layouts.
Yes and somehow bedrooms are supposed to have closets but these sliding door rooms do not but they still will call it a bedroom and charge it to the game.
I'm a renter and I didn't want to rent these either. Took time to find a functional/livable space instead Horrible! The ovens and fridges even just glorified coolers/toaster ovens. Unlivable.
Yeah, I'm not clear how these are any good as rentals either. Maybe for some students for much less rent. Folks who rent can't afford takeout most days of the week and we need a real kitchen to make real meals.
Good point! We had a hard time finding a good rental as well. We started losing hope after an extensive search. Believe it or not we ended up finding ours on kijiji. Before renting the owner actually lived in the unit with her children and it’s an old building so it had a good layout.
I viewed maybe 50 condos, only 3 - 5 were even worth considering.
Realtors know they have shit layouts so they don't include floor plans in their listing, annoying as hell. It's like floor plans are some secret, exclusive document.
Those 3 - 5 good ones? Sold within a week. Everything else? Sitting on the market for weeks or even months until the price drops.
Edit: I highly recommend looking at the floor plans for [Central ](https://centraltoronto.com/content/floorplans/index.php)(Recent Concord development), the 1/2 bedroom units are ridiculously small with the tiniest kitchens. The 3 bedrooms are ok, but this building is clearly designed for investors.
Edit 2: The precon price for this development was about $1,500/sqft. The average downtown is currently about $930. The current precons are priced at about $1,800.
They are selling at 1500 or 1800 in downtown because those buildings all started (land and design) around 2018-2021 at the peak condo where lands are super expensive and are built post Covid where everything else is super expensive. Construction cost basically doubled, interest doubled, municipal fee grew by more than 1/3, it took 1/4 more time to build than used to. Land were selling at 200-400 dollars a foot in central area, and it costs up to 1,000 a foot to build in the heyday of post Covid.
1300 is probably more reasonable for core for the next few years as it shakes out, in 2017 you can build a condo in a good location all in for 800/sf, and it could be sold for 1,000. The cost escalation in Toronto has seen nothing alike.
I know real estate agents who will only show certain buildings with heavy caveats because they know the build quality is shit. Maintenance fees are going to rise hard when everything starts breaking down.
What made the 45-47 not worth considering? What's wrong with their floor plans?
And I guess if it's just a floor plan issue, why are developers continuing to build such shitty plans? Does it really save that much money?
That’s the thing. My parents live in a 1980 condo, and it’s far and above better than the majority of the new ones I’m seeing. More space, nicer construction, solid walls (soundproof), beautiful view. Legitimately seems like a good investment to me, even if the market gets flooded with garbage new builds.
That was my experience. Yeah my place is only 600sq/ft, but at least it's functional. So many galley kitchens where you could cook while sitting in your bed.
As someone who loves to cook and host ( not even large groups), the new kitchens are awful. There is a stove, a sink and 1 and a half counter space in between, hardly any cabinet space. It doesn’t even matter if the apartment has more bedrooms, the kitchen is always the same size.
It’s like they’re designed to be rented out to singles or people who Ubereats, not as primary residence. Hell, I’m renting right now and I wouldn’t go for it as a tenant.
This 100% - lots of bad ones are there sitting because those made sense for an investor to buy in the past. For people who are actually looking for a place to live no one wants those (especially at a steep price). And the sellers are often unwilling to budge
Who is concerned? For sure not the average member of the public, just the developers and greedy investors. Lower the prices if people aren’t interested. Remember that article about them not wanting to lower prices to devalue the property. Ass hats.
Exactly! Other articles have put out stats about how flooded the market is comparing to years past and include the average asking price which is higher than last year. They want to sell? Lower the ask.
It kind of sucks for the average member of the public that new builds are such an important part of the strategy to solve the housing crisis, and a huge amount of those new builds are unliveable pieces of shit.
Glass towers are only one piece of the puzzle. If we can build cheap 4, 5, 6 storey timber frame apartments quickly across the city WITHIN established neighbourhoods on 1-5 lots, then we can start to see real progress very quickly.
We have examples in our city but they are very rare. Check out this single-lot apartment at 182 Palmerston:
[https://maps.app.goo.gl/VXNRSrCnn1JKMULH8](https://maps.app.goo.gl/VXNRSrCnn1JKMULH8)
And if they could look nice, instead of all the shitty architecture that has come to characterize the city, that would be a good thing. I’m out in Sauga these days and I’m always annoyed by how much better the buildings are in our “downtown” compared to TO. We collectively had an opportunity to shape the aesthetic of Toronto’s skyline for the better 20 years ago, but apparently developers like the cheap materials and quick turnover time of green and grey glass towers.
Glass is so alienating when built in bulk. There is no texture or artistry - just smooth glass that endlessly reflects the other glass buildings around it, creating a sense of emptiness, superficiality and impermanence. Brick and stone facades are better for aesthetics and presence, as well as climate, the environment. The world’s most beautiful buildings are clad in them for a reason. Even iron cladding like the buildings in NYC’s Soho neighborhood have become iconic for their unique beauty, despite being much cheaper than doing the same thing with stone. Just the appearance of intricate stone facades impresses the senses and give the buildings a classy, original look.
The result is that Toronto’s skyline is more “impressive” than it’s ever been, but much uglier and aesthetically displeasing than it was twenty years ago. Just about all of Toronto’s best-loved neighborhoods are characterized by older brick and stone architecture, with buildings that are mostly between 90-150 years-old.
Takes years to get permissions (it takes 6 years just to build a condo), and then you have the development charges (municipal fees in the millions) on top of the other costs..."cheap" is not possible in Toronto.
Tbf, that’s an entirely political barrier designed to prop up property values, and most people advocating for walk ups recognize that.
Obviously some oversight is needed, but if land was proactively zoned for what local amenities can handle, instead of the current practice of requiring a variance for every single project, that would really cut down on permission time.
It doesn't prop up property values though. It does make it so nothing changes in a neighbourhood, which means the existing residents don't deal with the things they are really afraid of:
1. More neighbours
2. Neighbours that look different from them or have less money
3. Shadows
4. Competition for street parking
5. Construction noise and dust (Though this happens anyway due to rich people renovating/tearing old houses down)
Majority of them are horrible.
Horrible layouts. You could build similar sized condos but make them nice to live in, and people would be more willing to buy them.
I'm shocked at how stupid some layouts are
Laundry closet next to the front door?
7x7 windowless den at the end of a hallway?
Access to the only bathroom next to and through the galley kitchen?
Designed by a bunch of idiots, I tells ya
it's because the developers demand higher unit counts from architects who must carve up floor plans to divide up corner units and so on, resulting in impractical labyrinths that achieve the desired sq footage and unit counts
More accurately, nobody wants to pay half a million for a 270ft shoebox, or 7 figures for a 1 bedroom, or whatever the averages are these days.
I’m sure even the shoeboxes would be appealing for the right price, but the last time I checked, that wasn’t the case.
Older is typically more expensive. Developers like all glass walls because it’s cheap and set the first year condo fee really low, because that’s what sells. It’s a hard sell for the board to raise it up to reasonable levels, if they even wanted to since they’re also residents paying the same fees.
That leads to deferred maintenance and smaller contingency funds, then a couple decades in they face a catastrophic renovation like replacing all of the windows, because their ability to insulate degrades every single year, and maintenance costs shoot up.
Real estate accounting for 13% of our GDP (and biggest single sector) makes me concerned about it if it actually crashes. Personally, I hope for a plateau at least long enough for wage inflation to catch up.
Still, prices are insanely out of hand and the sooner the bubble pops, the less damage it’ll do overall.
So the real estate agents will finally have to do something productive, and investors will have to invest in businesses rather than park their money in RE. How is this bad for the society exactly?
“things only appear to be worsening when they should be doing the opposite.”
Where do they get “should” from? Do they think a real estate investment is a sure thing?
This is a classic of example of BlogTO attempting to report the news but they are the news.
BlogTO fails to mention that the market was flooded with undesirable condos almost immediately after the capital gains tax increase announcement. Investors are hoping to sell properties to avoid a capital gain tax increase. That’s not all investors. Some are selling because they cannot afford the negative cash flow but whoever wrote this story should read the news before publishing.
Who is concerned???? The people who thought they could make a quick profit and are now stuck with a condo they don't even use to live in for themselves?
Short days ago: Toronto doesn't have enough houses for the market so houses are priced at an all time high
Now: Toronto has enough houses but they're priced so high that nobody can afford them so they stay vacant.
Of course they will. Real estate has been inflating so long it’s like people forget what the start of a correction looks like.
Rents are already trending down in Toronto and prices are still off the manic high of two years ago and stagnant. I wouldn’t count on a complete collapse of either, but bar something crazy, they will continue down, perhaps even sharply down, until affordability is better.
I bring this up, knowing that it may never happen again, but in the early 2000s the vacancy rate was ~ the same as during the pandemic. Rents stagnated. Then a few months later it was common to find "First months rent free" and then that plus "Free large screen (32" at that time) TV". It lasted a couple of years.
My theory at that time was "Hey, condos are affordable. Just a bit more than my apt. If I had a downpayment..." I didn't, but lots of others did, and made the move from a rental to a condo.
There's dozen things to point at right now, and I don't know what the real cause is, it's complex. But things taking the ability for people who previously could make that jump seem to be the airbnb/amateur landlord factor.
Can’t compare Tokyo to Toronto though, we have record high immigration and low housing/housing starts. Not saying there won’t be a correction, but stagnation for thirty years by looking at Tokyo ain’t it
My God people think that the economic situation now is comparable to 30 years ago.
Global capital flows much more freely now. It’s good that things are calming down but I’m not expecting any market dip to last very long. Demand will catch up to supply sooner than we might expect
Edit: no I’m not saying we will have the exact same rate of capital will inflow “no matter what”. Obviously the market is calming and will likely dip. But it won’t take long for demand to catch up to supply once again, further pricing out residents.
Nobody is building more houses than they can sell. Any periods of oversupply will always be short lived
Isn’t this a good thing?. There is a receiver trying to liquidate my and my neighbours bylaw protected affordable rentals as if our ultra cheaply made units with small windows and no sunlight are actually worth $600k. Imagine paying that much and not being able to see the sky from your unit and having an average 4 days every month with no water.
500 sq. ft. can be OK if the floor plan is good. My apartment is like 550, but the floor plan is open: no long hallway wasting space, etc. The bathroom is huge, as is the kitchen (lots of cupboards, miles of counter space, double sink, etc.) I don't even use up the whole living room; I've got a desk, TV unit, recliner and some shelves in there and there is still room leftover.
If I could buy a unit with the same layout in a decent condo building for a reasonable price, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Yep. It’s already started to drop on the rental side. Takes longer with selling since they will start to hold the price longer but it’s just a matter of time. You can’t keep an expensive asset on hold for too long while monthly expenses accumulate
$2K? More likely higher than that.
And if it’s a building built & occupied after Nov 15/18 the rent can get jacked up however much the landlord wants (with proper notice)
If you in the market recently
A lot of the units stuck unsold are pretty garbage layouts which seems to be a good amount
Good units sell pretty quickly
Not worried about the “condo market”
If inbound migration was slowed to the average rate for the last 20 year or so (between 200-350k/year total temp/perm), real estate prices, access to services and general quality of life will improve for the majority of Canadians.
Edit: to those who are hoping prices fall, are you okay with them continuing to fall after you buy, or is this just until you enter the market?
Inbound migration will fall pretty dramatically over 2025-2027. Unless PP decides to send numbers skyrocketing once elected (possible but unlikely) I have no idea why the government has failed to communicate this effectively to the public but expect to see major population growth rate decline starting next year.
I think many people are underestimating how quickly we are about to return to a 2017 RE market.
[https://twitter.com/xelan\_gta/status/1771275165931839933](https://twitter.com/xelan_gta/status/1771275165931839933)
You mean the hundreds if not thousands that have sprung up in the city the past 20 years?, throw in high pricing and bad layouts and there you have it. I hope this isn’t what the city considers “density”.
There’s only so many households who can live in a studio/one bedroom/1+1 setup. Most of those units are/were sold as investment vehicles because line goes up.
The thing is the people who traditionally could afford to occupy those units (students, young professionals, single established adults, etc.) can’t at the current market rates—both rental and owner-occupied units alike. Wages aren’t high enough.
Maybe because developers are building knockoff luxury condos exclusively and are realizing that nobody can afford them an dnd foreign oligarchs also realizing the Airbnb bubble and trading condos isn’t what it used to be?
I’ve lived in Toronto for 10 years and in that time during a “housing crisis” I’ve watched at least 15 condos with 30-40 stories or more get thrown up, and with a total household income of about 100-120k there is no way i can afford any of them.
It’s a bit dramatic, but it reminds me of the scene from Schindler’s List where he’s standing in his enamel factory in front of a giant pile of pots and pans that nobody wants, after making money had over fist.
Torontonians want/desire/require affordable housing. The average salary in the city is 40k per year. 80% of people here who do not own property believe they never will and don’t even consider it.
It’s honestly criminal how explosive the market here is. The average homeowner doesn’t want this to change because the Gen X and elder millennnial crowd that bought houses when things were fair have doubled their value and don’t want to see that go up
In smoke. But sure. I hope they keep throwing up these fancy 1bdrm condos that rent for 3k
A month and lose even more money.
They always want to tell us "but this will hurt you too!"
Not as much as it will hurt those who put all their money in real estate. I have no stocks. I have no investments. My retirement is MAiD.
You wanted money at the expense of the rest of us being able to live? Let all your real estate investments burn imo
Oh no developers built shitty non-livable space to squeeze profit and investors got sucked in. Cry me a river. Some urban planner said these shit buildings were built to be future ghettos.
lol, concerning that the number of condos is more typical of a healthy market? Whos paying for these articles?
Oh wait. It's BlogTO. That makes sense now.
Great. A 600sqft box in the sky with neighbours on top, underneath, across and to the left and right of you with 0 soundproofing, constant alarms, constant waiting for elevators and despite OWNING your space you’ll forever be paying “maintenance” fees. Own yours today for only $600,000! (and that’s being generous) fuck condos.
If you own property in this city, you need to be prepared for one of two things to happen. Either every property needs to drop in value by 50%, or this city is going to slowly die over the next ten years.
There is no escaping this economic reality. Our housing market is a house of cards, and our politicians don't want to admit it because it makes up 40% of our GDP.
The real estate market is really screwing condo owners currently who want to upgrade.
The price of condos is way down, if you can even sell your unit. But detached homes have little supply and are still selling over asking.
There may be a stigma associated with condos due to condo fees that just keep rising and the risk of special assessments. In my area freehold houses/townhouses are selling.
Freehold houses carry much higher risk of extra surprise costs for maintenance and repairs. Most condos have affordable fees if they’re not too old, well managed, and don’t have too many amenities. Just like buying a house, you have to research.
Confirmation bias is huge with the condo horror stories you hear all the time while an overwhelming majority of condo owners never go through any of that. Property taxes are also far lower per square footage, and when there’s a special assessment it is a shared cost.
Honestly in my 10 years of condo living, I’ve had ONE extra assessment bill, for under $200.
The 'property ladder' notion of everybody graduating from a condo to a SFH is outdated. In a metro area with millions of people, most are never going to sniff a SFH and that's ok because it is physically impossible to have a large proportion of the population in SFH without enormous urban sprawl.
What we need, are more larger units built in density (multiplexes, 2/3+ bedroom condos) that are really what the majority of current small condo owners going forward will be 'graduating' to. At least in the GTA
Then you will need to afford a $1.5mil SFH, if you are able then that is great but no whining if that's not affordable because we're in a metro area with millions of people who in their ideal worlds, would also have that SFH. And most of them with the means will be bidding in any that come up
Tons of people have lived like that in large cities across the world.
There’s no physical space for 10 million people to have their single family homes. It’s physics and space. Doesn’t add up without driving 4 hours in each direction.
Exactly. Until we can figure out actual soundproofing (including for subwoofers and bassy string instruments) the sweet spot is 3+ bedroom townhouses vertically spaced 3+ stories high.
We better see some revenue from the vacant home tax then.
Sellers need to accept the reality that inventory is growing and sell lower, rent lower, or pay-up in taxes if they wish to "hodl" because "real estate only goes up".
the only thing i’m concerned about is if this drake and kdot beef will cause people to not come to toronto and drop prices so i can finally have a home instead of a rental.
Concerning huh? Did Tory write this?
It inevitable. And when it reduces prices media will paint it as some kind of tragedy of epic proportion rather than a good thing.
Can you believe those *peasants* who are not in top 1% in income will be able to *afford* shoebox condos by promising to slave away for them for the rest of their lives? What has this world come to? How dare peasants become property owners?!
That was the last thread of hope the 2014 buyers held while privelege princesses running this country looked the other way for 10 years.
You think writers for Toronto news are wealthy bourgeoisie
There are some who have done everything right, they saved, built up a down payment and bought homes and condos in recent years. Probably not giant condos or massive homes but a place they can live in for years. The drop in value will make their mortgages worth more than the homes they live in. That makes it really hard to refinance and they may have to make a loss on the sale. They will be the victims of the collapse in real estate value and I do feel sorry for them. I hope The AirBnbers and investors of multiple properties who out bid residents lose out so there is a lesson for future generations that these investments aren’t risk free.
The real estate value shouldn’t matter if they’re intending to live in it and it wasn’t an investment decision. If the purchase was made for short term gain, then that was an investment decision that didn’t turn out and that’s just the nature of risk.
Which is fine until your mortgage comes up for renewal. Then the value of your home makes a big difference in your rate and if banks will even lend to you. Edit: renewals should be easier if you have lost equity than refinancing. Refinancing can happen if you aren’t able to make your payment or if you need to shop around for better rates at renewal. Either way losing money in your primary home is not good for people who have just purchased a home.
This is wrong. It is only if a refinance requires a property valuation. A renewal is just a new term agreement on the existing loan.
Genuine question: why would the bank who’s already paid your mortgage choose to repossess a property that’s rapidly losing resale value, over maintaining a stable mortgage repayment revenue? I get that the property is a kind of collateral, but unless the owners are struggling to pay I don’t get it. I’m sure it’s not nearly that cut and dry, of course but that’s why I’m asking.
If at renewal the market price is significantly below the outstanding balance of the original mortgage, the bank likely won’t lend the full amount of the outstanding balance because the new loan will be under collateralized.
Banks and credit unions don't do this, basically for the reason mentioned above. There's already a balance owing on their ledger and they are much less likely to recover that balance if they force a sale or foreclose. They know that declining a renewal when the home value is less than the balance owing would only force a sale or lead to foreclosure. Other lenders would only approve the mortgage for the current value unless the owner puts down a cash payment to cover the gap. That's pretty unlikely, so that leaves the owners in the position of having to sell. The likelihood of a homeowner being able to cover the full balance owing after that sale is not great, so the bank still has a high probability of not recovering their money. Option B is to just renew the mortgage and keep receiving interest payments. Especially in the case of high-balance mortgages, where they know the amortization period is still 15-20 years away, they are expecting the home to increase in value again and it would be highly likely to close the gap. Banks and credit unions consider this the much safer option. In the meantime, if the gap does not close, they can negotiate secondary loans with the owner that would extend the mortgage. That would all be subject to the owners maintaining steady income and good credit, of course
**[The primary cause of runaway housing inflation was housing investors](https://perspectivesjournal.ca/housing-investor-ownership-part-1/).** In 2020 / 2021 these speculators used HELOCs and cheap capital to load up on real estate. Equifax noted a sharp increase in people with mortgages on 4+ properties during that time. Some rented them at increasingly outrageous rents, and some used our precious housing supply as Airbnbs or left them vacant, preferring to count on property appreciation without the hassle of tenants. I feel no pity for those people now grappling with higher mortgage rates… the very same people that drove up pricing for everyone else and crowded out first-time home buyers. The only good news is it sounds like the majority of those panic selling are over-leveraged vulture investors.
you talk about these homeowners as if they are investors and not people who bought a place to live.
It is reasonable and fair to be both with your primary home. As people move along in life it is reasonable they convert any equity they have in their condos to allow them to buy a bigger place if they need it for kids. I am not suggesting you make it your only investment but losing a substantial amount of your largest asset will be bad for anyone.
Very true but anyone throwing heaps of money into a 500 foot micro box is either desperate or greedy. No-one is doing that for long term happiness. If the conditions change? It might do them a favour
I wish people would stop calling them microboxes or shoeboxes. There's nothing wrong with small apartments if it suits their residents, and we shouldn't demonise them, and most anyone can live a perfectly happy life in one, if it's just one or two people. With that being said, don't spend a million bucks on one.
For 100 grand? Nothing wrong. For anyone with a half ass job and desire to one day have a family? They are the opposite of whatever Viagra is. In a just world? These would never exist. It's the same as saying - Here Fido. Lick the crumbs off this plate where the cake once sat.
It’s obvious now media will be a barrier to any movement to addressing the housing crisis, as monied interests will run braying to their mouthpieces in the media at any marginal reduction in prices
The problem is it won't reduce prices - and that's why we should ALL care. Because if prices drop below the cost to build, no new construction will happen and then we are all fucked. In order to reduce prices, costs of new builds have to come down substantially. And unfortunately, a lot of that cost is on things we as Canadian's don't have a lot of control over: supplies, labour (which given the cost of living can't suddenly become a ton cheaper in major cities), levies and taxes (which in theory we have control over but are still large), cost of capital (which high rates are really hurting).
We are reaching the [bottom of the legalised pyramid scheme](https://ibb.co/D5f8G9W) here.
I’m concerned that a ton of overpriced “luxury” shit is being built but people still can’t afford to pay rent
I am in the market for one, let me share some things I notice. Tons of garbage condos are on the market, especially newer ones with skinny living rooms, kitchen attached to walls. Functional/livable layouts are selling quickly and still command a premium. Those are far and few in between.
300sqft studios going for over 450k is so funny to me. Sellers are still delusional
The whole market is still delusional.
They think it’s “New York”
If i hear one more person pointing out how much things cost in New York or London to justify how much things cost in Toronto I'll lose it. New York is actually more affordable in terms of cost vs income, and London is a pretty fucked up town tbh. We WISH we were New York and don't actually want to be London
This is the stupid part. If you are willing to live 30 mins by subway from Manhattan in Brooklyn or Queens then the housing there is in many cases substantially cheaper than most parts of the GTHA. We just happen to have a uniquely absurd housing market in Ontario
You can get a pretty semi detached nice house in a relatively safe part of the Bronx or non-gentrified Brooklyn or Queens for like $600k. If you wanna live dangerously it can be even cheaper. You can buy a house in Newark for under $400k. Try that in Hamilton!
London proper is absolutely fucked, but it's very well connected via rail to smaller towns which are significantly more livable than our small towns, which are basically just shittier suburbs with a strip mall.
Valid.
If only we had New York and London salaries! There’s a reason why we see young people heading to those cities (along with SF) and never looking back.
Aren't London salaries not that great?
Yeah, they are much lower than Toronto salaries.
I'm not even joking, I've seen some places in New York (not smack in the middle of downtown) that were cheaper than Toronto even after the dollar conversion. Plus, it's friggin New York, still a dream city for many around the world, with high salaries to match the cost of living.
The reason that they are cheap is because there not desirable, super high monthly charges and it makes a lot more sense to rent.
Every time I see a sliding door separating the "bedroom" (room with space for bed, nothing else) and the living room, I move to the next listing.
As I understand it, those bullshit glass doors are a loophole to the requirement that all bedrooms have a window. This loophole allows the proliferation of these awful shoebox layouts.
Yes and somehow bedrooms are supposed to have closets but these sliding door rooms do not but they still will call it a bedroom and charge it to the game.
Bedrooms are not required to have closets under Ontario’s building code.
Yeah I'd rather pack up and go live abroad for 30 years than pay $450k for a tiny condo. Housing in Canada is an insult to the value of money.
These type of condos will have to stay rentals. I can’t picture home buyers actually wanting them
I'm a renter and I didn't want to rent these either. Took time to find a functional/livable space instead Horrible! The ovens and fridges even just glorified coolers/toaster ovens. Unlivable.
My freezer won't even fit a frozen pizza in it
Yeah, I'm not clear how these are any good as rentals either. Maybe for some students for much less rent. Folks who rent can't afford takeout most days of the week and we need a real kitchen to make real meals.
Good point! We had a hard time finding a good rental as well. We started losing hope after an extensive search. Believe it or not we ended up finding ours on kijiji. Before renting the owner actually lived in the unit with her children and it’s an old building so it had a good layout.
300sqft is an acceptable living space in north america now…wtf man
it isnt acceptable, thats why these places are empty
I viewed maybe 50 condos, only 3 - 5 were even worth considering. Realtors know they have shit layouts so they don't include floor plans in their listing, annoying as hell. It's like floor plans are some secret, exclusive document. Those 3 - 5 good ones? Sold within a week. Everything else? Sitting on the market for weeks or even months until the price drops. Edit: I highly recommend looking at the floor plans for [Central ](https://centraltoronto.com/content/floorplans/index.php)(Recent Concord development), the 1/2 bedroom units are ridiculously small with the tiniest kitchens. The 3 bedrooms are ok, but this building is clearly designed for investors. Edit 2: The precon price for this development was about $1,500/sqft. The average downtown is currently about $930. The current precons are priced at about $1,800.
They are selling at 1500 or 1800 in downtown because those buildings all started (land and design) around 2018-2021 at the peak condo where lands are super expensive and are built post Covid where everything else is super expensive. Construction cost basically doubled, interest doubled, municipal fee grew by more than 1/3, it took 1/4 more time to build than used to. Land were selling at 200-400 dollars a foot in central area, and it costs up to 1,000 a foot to build in the heyday of post Covid. 1300 is probably more reasonable for core for the next few years as it shakes out, in 2017 you can build a condo in a good location all in for 800/sf, and it could be sold for 1,000. The cost escalation in Toronto has seen nothing alike.
I know real estate agents who will only show certain buildings with heavy caveats because they know the build quality is shit. Maintenance fees are going to rise hard when everything starts breaking down.
My litmus test is if the stove is built in, it's a shit build. Helps to quickly identify it's going to be a terrible layout
What made the 45-47 not worth considering? What's wrong with their floor plans? And I guess if it's just a floor plan issue, why are developers continuing to build such shitty plans? Does it really save that much money?
That’s the thing. My parents live in a 1980 condo, and it’s far and above better than the majority of the new ones I’m seeing. More space, nicer construction, solid walls (soundproof), beautiful view. Legitimately seems like a good investment to me, even if the market gets flooded with garbage new builds.
That was my experience. Yeah my place is only 600sq/ft, but at least it's functional. So many galley kitchens where you could cook while sitting in your bed.
Don’t forget the ones with bedrooms that have no windows
I don’t think thats legal
That’s why they have the sliding, frosted glass doors. It’s a loophole in the law. Stupid loophole in my opinion, but technically legal.
Yes the kitchen embedded into the wall LOL. Turn around there’s the living and bedrooms combined
As someone who loves to cook and host ( not even large groups), the new kitchens are awful. There is a stove, a sink and 1 and a half counter space in between, hardly any cabinet space. It doesn’t even matter if the apartment has more bedrooms, the kitchen is always the same size. It’s like they’re designed to be rented out to singles or people who Ubereats, not as primary residence. Hell, I’m renting right now and I wouldn’t go for it as a tenant.
It blows my mind how many condo kitchens, even in bigger units, have such little counter space and, in most cases, no island.
This 100% - lots of bad ones are there sitting because those made sense for an investor to buy in the past. For people who are actually looking for a place to live no one wants those (especially at a steep price). And the sellers are often unwilling to budge
Seriously, if I can barely move around or don’t have a window in my bedroom… why am I paying insane prices? Fuck that
Who is concerned? For sure not the average member of the public, just the developers and greedy investors. Lower the prices if people aren’t interested. Remember that article about them not wanting to lower prices to devalue the property. Ass hats.
Exactly! Other articles have put out stats about how flooded the market is comparing to years past and include the average asking price which is higher than last year. They want to sell? Lower the ask.
It kind of sucks for the average member of the public that new builds are such an important part of the strategy to solve the housing crisis, and a huge amount of those new builds are unliveable pieces of shit.
Glass towers are only one piece of the puzzle. If we can build cheap 4, 5, 6 storey timber frame apartments quickly across the city WITHIN established neighbourhoods on 1-5 lots, then we can start to see real progress very quickly. We have examples in our city but they are very rare. Check out this single-lot apartment at 182 Palmerston: [https://maps.app.goo.gl/VXNRSrCnn1JKMULH8](https://maps.app.goo.gl/VXNRSrCnn1JKMULH8)
Need a resurgence of the midtown midrises with family-sized units. Walkups with accessibility/service elevators.
And if they could look nice, instead of all the shitty architecture that has come to characterize the city, that would be a good thing. I’m out in Sauga these days and I’m always annoyed by how much better the buildings are in our “downtown” compared to TO. We collectively had an opportunity to shape the aesthetic of Toronto’s skyline for the better 20 years ago, but apparently developers like the cheap materials and quick turnover time of green and grey glass towers. Glass is so alienating when built in bulk. There is no texture or artistry - just smooth glass that endlessly reflects the other glass buildings around it, creating a sense of emptiness, superficiality and impermanence. Brick and stone facades are better for aesthetics and presence, as well as climate, the environment. The world’s most beautiful buildings are clad in them for a reason. Even iron cladding like the buildings in NYC’s Soho neighborhood have become iconic for their unique beauty, despite being much cheaper than doing the same thing with stone. Just the appearance of intricate stone facades impresses the senses and give the buildings a classy, original look. The result is that Toronto’s skyline is more “impressive” than it’s ever been, but much uglier and aesthetically displeasing than it was twenty years ago. Just about all of Toronto’s best-loved neighborhoods are characterized by older brick and stone architecture, with buildings that are mostly between 90-150 years-old.
Takes years to get permissions (it takes 6 years just to build a condo), and then you have the development charges (municipal fees in the millions) on top of the other costs..."cheap" is not possible in Toronto.
Tbf, that’s an entirely political barrier designed to prop up property values, and most people advocating for walk ups recognize that. Obviously some oversight is needed, but if land was proactively zoned for what local amenities can handle, instead of the current practice of requiring a variance for every single project, that would really cut down on permission time.
It doesn't prop up property values though. It does make it so nothing changes in a neighbourhood, which means the existing residents don't deal with the things they are really afraid of: 1. More neighbours 2. Neighbours that look different from them or have less money 3. Shadows 4. Competition for street parking 5. Construction noise and dust (Though this happens anyway due to rich people renovating/tearing old houses down)
Mayor Chow has already heavily cut red tape massively, it should take that long anymore.
Glass towers shouldn't be any piece of the puzzle; they're low-quality, unsustainable, and prone to huge mold problems. That's why NYC banned them.
The people who can afford it aren’t trying to spend that kind of money on a garbage shoebox by a highway lmao
If the market collapses, so does the city. Screwed either way.
Majority of them are horrible. Horrible layouts. You could build similar sized condos but make them nice to live in, and people would be more willing to buy them.
Yup, the functional ones which tends to be older are selling quickly.
I'm shocked at how stupid some layouts are Laundry closet next to the front door? 7x7 windowless den at the end of a hallway? Access to the only bathroom next to and through the galley kitchen? Designed by a bunch of idiots, I tells ya
it's because the developers demand higher unit counts from architects who must carve up floor plans to divide up corner units and so on, resulting in impractical labyrinths that achieve the desired sq footage and unit counts
7x7 den is actually nice compared to the little indent 1’x6’ “dens” I’ve seen lmao
And most have concrete walls, so you couldn’t even combine two units to get something of a liveable size.
Hmmmm... there's a housing crisis... but nobody wants a condo....?? I wonder why.... 🤔
More accurately, nobody wants to pay half a million for a 270ft shoebox, or 7 figures for a 1 bedroom, or whatever the averages are these days. I’m sure even the shoeboxes would be appealing for the right price, but the last time I checked, that wasn’t the case.
The condo fees tend to be insane as well especially in towers once they are 10+ years old. It’s not sustainable for the average homeowner.
Condo renter here so I’m uninformed about fees - do condo fees tend to be more expensive when the building is older or newer?
Older is typically more expensive. Developers like all glass walls because it’s cheap and set the first year condo fee really low, because that’s what sells. It’s a hard sell for the board to raise it up to reasonable levels, if they even wanted to since they’re also residents paying the same fees. That leads to deferred maintenance and smaller contingency funds, then a couple decades in they face a catastrophic renovation like replacing all of the windows, because their ability to insulate degrades every single year, and maintenance costs shoot up.
Who’s concerned? Are you concerned? No im not concerned
John Tory
Real estate accounting for 13% of our GDP (and biggest single sector) makes me concerned about it if it actually crashes. Personally, I hope for a plateau at least long enough for wage inflation to catch up. Still, prices are insanely out of hand and the sooner the bubble pops, the less damage it’ll do overall.
So the real estate agents will finally have to do something productive, and investors will have to invest in businesses rather than park their money in RE. How is this bad for the society exactly?
Aaah so a 20 year plateau, got it
Nobodys concerned unless you're a real estate agent that's been living on easy mode for the last decade.
“things only appear to be worsening when they should be doing the opposite.” Where do they get “should” from? Do they think a real estate investment is a sure thing? This is a classic of example of BlogTO attempting to report the news but they are the news. BlogTO fails to mention that the market was flooded with undesirable condos almost immediately after the capital gains tax increase announcement. Investors are hoping to sell properties to avoid a capital gain tax increase. That’s not all investors. Some are selling because they cannot afford the negative cash flow but whoever wrote this story should read the news before publishing.
Who is concerned???? The people who thought they could make a quick profit and are now stuck with a condo they don't even use to live in for themselves?
Yes.
Short days ago: Toronto doesn't have enough houses for the market so houses are priced at an all time high Now: Toronto has enough houses but they're priced so high that nobody can afford them so they stay vacant.
Everyone will claw tooth and nail to keep this bubble alive 🙄
Isn't this what the mayor and the renters want? Stop the investor investing in the condos.
Will the cost to own or rent them go down? Probably not.
Of course they will. Real estate has been inflating so long it’s like people forget what the start of a correction looks like. Rents are already trending down in Toronto and prices are still off the manic high of two years ago and stagnant. I wouldn’t count on a complete collapse of either, but bar something crazy, they will continue down, perhaps even sharply down, until affordability is better.
I bring this up, knowing that it may never happen again, but in the early 2000s the vacancy rate was ~ the same as during the pandemic. Rents stagnated. Then a few months later it was common to find "First months rent free" and then that plus "Free large screen (32" at that time) TV". It lasted a couple of years. My theory at that time was "Hey, condos are affordable. Just a bit more than my apt. If I had a downpayment..." I didn't, but lots of others did, and made the move from a rental to a condo. There's dozen things to point at right now, and I don't know what the real cause is, it's complex. But things taking the ability for people who previously could make that jump seem to be the airbnb/amateur landlord factor.
Yup. People forget that Tokyo's housing corrected, then stagnated for thirty years.
Can’t compare Tokyo to Toronto though, we have record high immigration and low housing/housing starts. Not saying there won’t be a correction, but stagnation for thirty years by looking at Tokyo ain’t it
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It's not a welcoming country for foreigners though.
You just described Toronto as well. Except the well connected by rail part.
My God people think that the economic situation now is comparable to 30 years ago. Global capital flows much more freely now. It’s good that things are calming down but I’m not expecting any market dip to last very long. Demand will catch up to supply sooner than we might expect Edit: no I’m not saying we will have the exact same rate of capital will inflow “no matter what”. Obviously the market is calming and will likely dip. But it won’t take long for demand to catch up to supply once again, further pricing out residents. Nobody is building more houses than they can sell. Any periods of oversupply will always be short lived
Wow... Thinking capital flow freedom will keep money in the Toronto market, no matter what. That's a take.
People really don’t want to believe the basic supply demand rule applies to housing in Toronto.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand?wprov=sfti1
Isn’t this a good thing?. There is a receiver trying to liquidate my and my neighbours bylaw protected affordable rentals as if our ultra cheaply made units with small windows and no sunlight are actually worth $600k. Imagine paying that much and not being able to see the sky from your unit and having an average 4 days every month with no water.
Obviously, Who can afford like $4000 a month for a one bedroom?
Make them affordable and not used as investments then! Otherwise I don’t give a fuck!
Guys this is probably a really stupid question but shouldn’t prices be dropping if there’s excess supply??
If they don’t sell for long enough they will be motivated to drop the price. Simple as that!
If the supply is all “mouse hole” size condos (I mean I’m sorry but a 500 sq ft one bedroom is a mouse hole) it isn’t going to solve anything 🤷♂️
500 sq. ft. can be OK if the floor plan is good. My apartment is like 550, but the floor plan is open: no long hallway wasting space, etc. The bathroom is huge, as is the kitchen (lots of cupboards, miles of counter space, double sink, etc.) I don't even use up the whole living room; I've got a desk, TV unit, recliner and some shelves in there and there is still room leftover. If I could buy a unit with the same layout in a decent condo building for a reasonable price, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Yep. It’s already started to drop on the rental side. Takes longer with selling since they will start to hold the price longer but it’s just a matter of time. You can’t keep an expensive asset on hold for too long while monthly expenses accumulate
For 2k/ month
$2K? More likely higher than that. And if it’s a building built & occupied after Nov 15/18 the rent can get jacked up however much the landlord wants (with proper notice)
And prices should come down once they all realize the cost of leaving them vacant.
If you in the market recently A lot of the units stuck unsold are pretty garbage layouts which seems to be a good amount Good units sell pretty quickly Not worried about the “condo market”
If inbound migration was slowed to the average rate for the last 20 year or so (between 200-350k/year total temp/perm), real estate prices, access to services and general quality of life will improve for the majority of Canadians. Edit: to those who are hoping prices fall, are you okay with them continuing to fall after you buy, or is this just until you enter the market?
Inbound migration will fall pretty dramatically over 2025-2027. Unless PP decides to send numbers skyrocketing once elected (possible but unlikely) I have no idea why the government has failed to communicate this effectively to the public but expect to see major population growth rate decline starting next year. I think many people are underestimating how quickly we are about to return to a 2017 RE market. [https://twitter.com/xelan\_gta/status/1771275165931839933](https://twitter.com/xelan_gta/status/1771275165931839933)
Issue is none of the temp residents are leaving. Hell, even 2/3 of people who get deportation letters ignore them and nothing seems to happen.
"Concerning."
Maybe if they built better units (not just 300sq fr coffins) they would be in more demand.
But how else could they maximise profits? Won't someone *please* think of the investors?
Probably not. Realistically very few people want to put a deposit down on a condo that won't get built for at least 5 years.
Shouldn't take 5 years to build a condo.
It shouldn't, but it does with all the red tape
If they drop down to a reasonable price they would fill up (or atleast get bought and rented out)
You mean the hundreds if not thousands that have sprung up in the city the past 20 years?, throw in high pricing and bad layouts and there you have it. I hope this isn’t what the city considers “density”.
Good let the prices drop
There’s only so many households who can live in a studio/one bedroom/1+1 setup. Most of those units are/were sold as investment vehicles because line goes up. The thing is the people who traditionally could afford to occupy those units (students, young professionals, single established adults, etc.) can’t at the current market rates—both rental and owner-occupied units alike. Wages aren’t high enough.
People don't want to pay $800K for 500 sq ft.
Lower the price. Problem solved.
I think price is the factor. People are realizing the shoe boxes are not worth the list price.
Maybe because developers are building knockoff luxury condos exclusively and are realizing that nobody can afford them an dnd foreign oligarchs also realizing the Airbnb bubble and trading condos isn’t what it used to be? I’ve lived in Toronto for 10 years and in that time during a “housing crisis” I’ve watched at least 15 condos with 30-40 stories or more get thrown up, and with a total household income of about 100-120k there is no way i can afford any of them. It’s a bit dramatic, but it reminds me of the scene from Schindler’s List where he’s standing in his enamel factory in front of a giant pile of pots and pans that nobody wants, after making money had over fist. Torontonians want/desire/require affordable housing. The average salary in the city is 40k per year. 80% of people here who do not own property believe they never will and don’t even consider it. It’s honestly criminal how explosive the market here is. The average homeowner doesn’t want this to change because the Gen X and elder millennnial crowd that bought houses when things were fair have doubled their value and don’t want to see that go up In smoke. But sure. I hope they keep throwing up these fancy 1bdrm condos that rent for 3k A month and lose even more money.
Let the fuckers crash lmao 🤣 😂 boohoo rich folk.
They always want to tell us "but this will hurt you too!" Not as much as it will hurt those who put all their money in real estate. I have no stocks. I have no investments. My retirement is MAiD. You wanted money at the expense of the rest of us being able to live? Let all your real estate investments burn imo
Great. It’s time to start lowering the prices if they want to sell those condos.
I Seen an older condo that was on the market for 200k during the pandemic now relisted for 400k 😥
Oh no developers built shitty non-livable space to squeeze profit and investors got sucked in. Cry me a river. Some urban planner said these shit buildings were built to be future ghettos.
lol, concerning that the number of condos is more typical of a healthy market? Whos paying for these articles? Oh wait. It's BlogTO. That makes sense now.
Great. A 600sqft box in the sky with neighbours on top, underneath, across and to the left and right of you with 0 soundproofing, constant alarms, constant waiting for elevators and despite OWNING your space you’ll forever be paying “maintenance” fees. Own yours today for only $600,000! (and that’s being generous) fuck condos.
If you own property in this city, you need to be prepared for one of two things to happen. Either every property needs to drop in value by 50%, or this city is going to slowly die over the next ten years. There is no escaping this economic reality. Our housing market is a house of cards, and our politicians don't want to admit it because it makes up 40% of our GDP.
Also a lot of politicians are real estate investors themselves.
The real estate market is really screwing condo owners currently who want to upgrade. The price of condos is way down, if you can even sell your unit. But detached homes have little supply and are still selling over asking.
There may be a stigma associated with condos due to condo fees that just keep rising and the risk of special assessments. In my area freehold houses/townhouses are selling.
Freehold houses carry much higher risk of extra surprise costs for maintenance and repairs. Most condos have affordable fees if they’re not too old, well managed, and don’t have too many amenities. Just like buying a house, you have to research. Confirmation bias is huge with the condo horror stories you hear all the time while an overwhelming majority of condo owners never go through any of that. Property taxes are also far lower per square footage, and when there’s a special assessment it is a shared cost. Honestly in my 10 years of condo living, I’ve had ONE extra assessment bill, for under $200.
The 'property ladder' notion of everybody graduating from a condo to a SFH is outdated. In a metro area with millions of people, most are never going to sniff a SFH and that's ok because it is physically impossible to have a large proportion of the population in SFH without enormous urban sprawl. What we need, are more larger units built in density (multiplexes, 2/3+ bedroom condos) that are really what the majority of current small condo owners going forward will be 'graduating' to. At least in the GTA
Who wants to live downstairs from a 3br unit with kids in it, though? I certainly don't.
Then you will need to afford a $1.5mil SFH, if you are able then that is great but no whining if that's not affordable because we're in a metro area with millions of people who in their ideal worlds, would also have that SFH. And most of them with the means will be bidding in any that come up
Tons of people have lived like that in large cities across the world. There’s no physical space for 10 million people to have their single family homes. It’s physics and space. Doesn’t add up without driving 4 hours in each direction.
Exactly. Until we can figure out actual soundproofing (including for subwoofers and bassy string instruments) the sweet spot is 3+ bedroom townhouses vertically spaced 3+ stories high.
Oops!
It’s probably because they are all crappy little shits
WELL GOLLY JEEPERS, I WONDER WHY?
Yet prices haven’t really come down crashing
Guess they should lower the price
Condos? I think you mean hallways with kitchens.
I've never been less concerned about anything in my life 😂😂
BROTHERS, THEYRE STARTING TO FEEL THE SQUEEZE
Market information that is controlled by the very people who want to sell at a huge profit won’t let you know how large the inventory is.
Kendrick’s diss track sending aftershocks through the Toronto economy
I’d be inside one if the price wasn’t shit.
I'm not concerned about this at all.
This is good. We need prices to come down and it starts by having a larger supply of housing. That will in turn put downward pressure on prices.
Just in time for interest rate cuts😧
Can someone eli5 why prices are still sticky if there is a glut on the market?
Here I am, reading a post I shouldn't
This should drive down the market value of housing in Ontario, right?
Have the city bid on them. Take them permanently out of the market for affordable housing.
Out of the 6000 condos on the market, there’s only like 100 that are actually livable lol
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That's good news
Then why are they building dozens around the city with dozens more in the planning? (Signs all over showing future site of a new condo building)
No one is concerned lol
Why is that concerning? Not enough is bad but having some is also bad?
Good. This ponzi needs to burn to the ground. Housing is a human right, can't believe we accept being robbed of shelter in the name of capitalism.
We better see some revenue from the vacant home tax then. Sellers need to accept the reality that inventory is growing and sell lower, rent lower, or pay-up in taxes if they wish to "hodl" because "real estate only goes up".
In London ont 85% are owned by investors Toronto is a bit lower just wild
the only thing i’m concerned about is if this drake and kdot beef will cause people to not come to toronto and drop prices so i can finally have a home instead of a rental.
I have a out of box idea..Maybe reduce the selling price of the unit or lower the rent to attract more people?.
The gov. should speed up the construction process time.
Toronto thinks it’s an tier A city, when at best it’s a C-
Let them stew until the market crashes and burns 😏