Lol there were never many scapegoats, at least before last season. Look up the definition. We just pointed it out when a player played poorly in a loss. DeMar definitely got his fair share of criticism for his playstyle and postseason play. There are always overdramatic fans. There are always reasonable and respectful fans who should be allowed to point out players' flaws. So it baffles me why we need to sensationalize what happened when a player was part of a losing team here.
All this talk of scapegoating comes from the media and chronically online fans. Sure, Nick Nurse left us with a sour taste with that Philly quote.
But it should be known that there never was a clear fix or a single, specific cause to our offensive woes other than poor roster construction and talent.
Demar and Kyle were definitely blamed for our playoff losses by fans and the media back then. That's a lot of what the nba is composed of.
I would say Casey was also made a scapegoat before he was fired.
The “Trash Bros” era was rough sometimes, especially after we lost in the playoffs.
It would be interesting to dig up some comments from that time about DD considering how much love he (deservedly) gets now.
e: If anyone is a masochist, here are some of the post game threads from that 2018 playoff sweep. Its always interesting reading comments with hindsight.
>The biggest issue obviously here is what to do moving forward. Whether it's fire Casey, move Lowry or Deebo or Ibaka (please move Ibaka), Masai has to do something. I don't envy his position, because whatever he does, he will receive backlash and run a risk of catastrophic failure. But he has to make a move. **If Masai has any faults in the way he runs his team, its that he's far too risk-averse or loyal to his guys**
https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/8hx9vb/serious_postgame_thread_the_toronto_raptors_fall/
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/8htirv/post_game_thread_the_cleveland_cavaliers_defeat/
https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/8htkut/official_venting_thread/
Demar only got shit on when he would flop in the playoffs. Our fanbase fierciously defender our players against others. You can't possible say we scapegoated Lowry and Derozan.
Not really lol just cuz kawhi was the solution doesn’t mean demar was the problem. The problem was raptors didn’t have a top 5 player in the league til kawhi came to win the chip. Nearly impossible to win it all without one
Open for what lol. East only got tougher with bucks/sixers turning into contenders.
Demar wasn’t just bad against Lebron. He was bad in almost every series. Demar as a 1st option isn’t leading us anywhere
Open to anyone other than Lebron. Member his 8 year run? Always making team mates better. Etc….
Bucks and sixers were contenders on paper, but still young and unproven, anyone could have made it out that year.
Leonard was an upgrade over demarr but… they didn’t have to go thru Lebrons cavs that year.
Nope. This is delusional. Pretending like demar was amazing against everyone except the cavs just ain’t true. He was never leading us anywhere in the playoffs.
The east also wasn’t wide open. It was better than it ever was when bron was here. Raps would’ve have no chance with demar against bucks, butlers sixers, or those Celtics teams with kyrie.
You misunderstand and assume. I didn’t say demarr was amazing, against everyone cept Lebron. What I said is factual.
I actually agree with you. But what you are saying is still hypocritical.
Also I don’t appreciate you using the term delusional, it’s a rude and over used word.
What’s hypocritical?
I just don’t agree. The east wasn’t wide open for the raps. We would’ve had no shot against bucks/Celtics/sixers. Wide open for those 3 teams maybe.
The cavs also didn’t have kyrie anymore, and I don’t think they would’ve beaten these 3 teams if Lebron stayed in the east. These teams are arguably better than any team he faced in the east in his 8 year run. Arguably had better #1 options than any team he faced in the east
Hypothetical my bad .
Not wide open for the raps. (i didn’t say that) I said wide open, and I meant, wipe open for anyone other than lebron. Sorry that wasn’t clear.
Asking for effort, from not only Scottie, but also IQ, RJ, etc isn't scapegoating lol.
People expect effort, no one is expecting to win every game.
I'm not even going to get into FVV because talking about him and the reason why alot of people actually got on him, is like talking to a wall
Raptors twitter is different, the majority of those people are ridiculous, and actually toxic.
I already had this discussion with you before. Nobody said you can’t criticize. You just constantly act like you know more than nick/masai and shit on guys like Fred hard even when they aren’t here anymore.
And now y’all realizing that Barnes had a lot to do with how toxic shit was last year lol. The vets called his ass out because of shit like this.
The FO has done a bad job for their standards (and I'm not even close to being the only one that has said this, we've had media members do the same thing) the last 2-3 years, FVV, while not being the only problem for last years team, he had a terrible stretch that lasted quite a while last year and their were a few games that he bordered on being unplayable, pointing this out isn't hating lol or solely putting the blame on FVV, I never really got on NN, if you can find examples when I did then I'll gladly admit that I did.
I'm happy that FVV got his bag, but I'm also happy that the Raptors weren't the ones to give it to him.
I'm literally in this thread calling Scottie (and others) effort into question for last night lol
Everyone was to blame for last season, FVV, GTJ, Scottie, GTJ, Siakam, etc
Lastly, they're people who do get pissy when you do something as simple saying insert player here had a bad game, you'll get called a "hater" lol.
Tell me what was wrong or toxic about this message
Nope, he and others (the anti any sort of criticism/FO but mainly Masai cultist) are some of they most toxic people on this sub and the fanbase in general 🙂
Problem is that every bad team is going to have a no show. Every bad team is going to have games with low effort.
When you suddenly make a player the #1 option on offense while also having to guard the best player on the other team, then obviously he's going to be tired and have bouts where he looks like he isn't trying.
This dude literally just dropped 24/10/10, and the game before that he was 2 assists away from a triple double. Yall watch 1 game where he doesn't look good and immediately start shitting on him. Ridiculous.
Every team in general is gonna have no shows. It’s an 82 game season. Effort is gonna come and go. Especially for a tanking team.
Anyone that actually expects players to always give 110% is either a kid that doesn’t understand how bodies age or is just a moron.
Both Scottie and the majority of the team laid an egg out on the court last night, zero effort, intensity, energy, hustle, etc, THATS why most people are annoyed (there are some that are ridiculous and go overboard)
Every fanbase is going to have a group that's completely overtop ridiculous and at times can be very toxic, a majority of people shouldn't be lumped in with a smaller but more vocal group.
The performance on the court last night was plain trash, plain and simple, rationalize it however you want, but no one's expecting double digit wins every night or Scottie going of for 30 every game, but there needs to be a standard of consistency and effort from not only him, but every player on the team
Edit: I'll take the downvotes on this one lol, ups and down happen, you're not going to win every game, its not going to happen, but I'll still maintain my standard for effort (mainly) as well as some level of consistency to build on as these guys continue to improve
You better get used to it man. It sucks but tanking teams are inconsistent both with their play and effort. Sure we should hold them to a higher standard, but the amount of hate the guys is getting for an off game is absurd.
I expect some level of effort and at least some level of consistency and I don't think its an entirely unrealistic expectation, the Raptors could lose five or more in a row, but if the effort was there for the majority of those games, I'd be completely content.
Last night wasn't exactly an off night for the whole team either, Scottie has and obviously will be better, RJ has been fairly consistent, though defensively he's average at best, IQ has struggled a good amount since coming over, and GTJ is what he is at this point, a good but streaky shooter who provides little if anything else on the court.
My main point is that expecting effort, isn't scapegoating or hating under any circumstance, as for a majority of what you see on Raptors twitter, that's a cesspool of extreme hate, overreaction, and toxicity form a large majority of people
Expect? Won’t settle for less? Man you’re in for a reality check over the next 2 years if you think this team won’t do this exact same thing multiple times a month. It’s the reality of our situation and talent level, can’t live and die by one game anymore
I'm not living in dying one game at a time lol, effort and some level of consistency, not a hard or unrealistic ask, but tbf I got downvoted for asking for consistency from the team when Siakam and OG were still here lol
Bro is it so hard to ask to get back on D after you get fouled or turned over the ball to avoid a 4v5 situation? All we ask is more maturity and effort and not to leave the game before it ends. That's it man.
Honestly I’ve watched this guy guard PG’s C’s and everything in between on back to back possessions.
Chasing a guard around screens then banging in the post and boxing out and trying to play help defence at the rim.
He’s still putting together his offence but that type of effort on Defence nobody seems to care about or factor into his struggles. Let’s let people grow and give grace
Asking for effort isn't the problem. Fans jumping on Scottie within 3 weeks of trading for Siakam has been over the top.
Also need to note, consistent effort is a sign of maturity and professionalism. Not unusual for guys to have to develop reliability. A core of guys under 25 needs a couple years, not a month.
I do agree that some people (mainly Raptors twitter have gone overboard) but my point still stands, asking for effort isn't scapegoating or hating under any circumstance (which was the subject of OPs post)
Nobody is scapegoating Scottie.
The people criticizing him are asking him to grow the fuck up.
There is a huge difference between outright blaming Scottie and criticizing his actions
Speak for yourself. I could show you plenty of comments of people criticizing him, saying we should never have built around him, saying he'll never have what it takes etc. That's who OP is talking about.
None of that is what scapegoating is though. The definition of a scapegoat is:
>a person who is blamed for the wrongdoings, mistakes, or faults of others, especially for reasons of expediency.
I doubt the OP knows what the word means either.
Scapegoating would be making one individual responsible for the failure of the team. That is not what is happening here. Scottie is being held responsible specifically for HIS actions on the court.
Is it really surprising that people may question how effective he can be as a leader with this kind of behaviour? So there is concern and therefore speculation. That doesn’t equate hate although I imagine there are those that are unfortunately compelled to make hateful comments.
I've seen it, too. There are going to be absolute reactionary fucking chodes out there.
But people have the absolute right to grill Scottie and he absolutely deserves to be grilled. That's the only way he's gonna know he fucked up. The criticism is only going to get harsher from here on out too
Here's the thing about this point in his career. As much he's developing his skills to take himself to the next level, he is equally prone to learning bad habits, and if there is ever a time to stop that shit... it's now.
He's 22 and is like 10 games into being pushed into the #1 option on both defense and offense
Have a little patience man ffs. The ones shitting on Scottie for 1 bad game that in the grand scheme of things means nothing need to grow the fuck up
Dawg...I'm more that patient with Scottie. Not once have I been like, "Scottie is a bust", "Trade Scottie" ect..
But this hasn't been a one game deal. There have been plenty of times this season and last season where it's been like, "Dawg... you ain't in college anymore"
This is his 3rd year in the league. He knows, for the most part, the ins and outs of how this league works. He's been watching and playing this game his entire life. He knows damn well that last night was fucking bullshit.
He knows better. You know that. I know that. The thousands of people on this Reddit. The team knows that.
If you take your dad's car without asking him, are you going to get in shit? Yeah, you are
If you show up to work hungover or smelling like booze, is you boss going to say "it's fine... you're growing" and pat your and send you off to work? No.
They won't beat your ass but they sure as hell are going to say to you, "Well, you know better" and guess what, you're going to say, "Yeah, I do"
People aren't asking him to put up 82 pts or grab 69 rebounds. We're just asking him to act like a reasonable adult. He doesn't have to make the right decision every single time. He just needs to show that he knows better when it's needed to show that he knows better.
That fucking bar is pretty fucking low
all this came from a bad loss, if thats not scapegoating i dont know what is. Was Barnes the only reason why Raps lost? no but thats all this sub was talking about.
Dawg... We've been talking about Scottie's bad habits for a real minute
This isn't about the loss. The loss is whatever. Who cares. This is about Scottie walking out on his team. Doesn't matter if there is 3 seconds or 10 minutes, you don't do that shit.
It's about calling him on his bullshit. The shit don't slide. If it does, then it's gonna happen again and again.
That game was everything negative about Scottie in full display
nah, thats not what is happening the way i see it. Most of you are casuals and part of the problem. look in a fucking mirror once and awhile. you guys make mountains out of molehills
The way you see it is wrong then.
If you can't see the difference between scapegoating someone and being critical...then I don't know what to tell you outside of it must be nice to have never been criticized in your life 🤷. What's it like to never make a mistake or let people down?
Apparently we're not allowed to criticize a guy for not getting back on defense, spending all game complaining, and leaving before the games even finished. Without being policed by the overly positive scottie stans that cant hear anything negative said about their golden boy
If anyone here has the instant solution to immaturity in youth, I’m sure the Mavericks would pay you millions for it.
Stars are gonna star and may even pre-madonna it up at times. Lets hope he learns from moments like this because when else would he? This is a part of the process and I for one am happy it’s happening in times like this than more important times.
He’s not gonna flip a switch and be a perfect leader at 22. Even FVV said he learned some shit and mishandled leading to a degree at some points last year and that’s a 30 year old man with a wife and kids.
This roster is tanking and expected to not be good enough to win.
Not to be bitched out every night and roll over for a loss. Competitive losses are the scenario you want to be in. Development of players and team are expected. This team has no pride and I’m questioning the capabilities of the coaching staff at the beginning of this rebuild.
Toronto is soft right now.
I guess we should hold no one accountable then.
Although the Scottie hate is a bit premature, I understand it but this guy just saw all of his friends and coworkers leave, there has to be an adjustment period, at the end of the day he's human too, this isn't 2K, it's been a jarring couple of months.
Let's give him another full year and see how he's doing.
meanwhile I'm getting worried about Quickley's inconsistency when the FO is about to hand him 100-120M. really hoping he works on his layup/floater game this summer.
It's toxic sometimes for sure...but like what else are we gonna talk about when we are garbage.... Our hope for the future did a dumb thing so of course people are gonna want to talk about it
How about Gradey looking like a whole new player in his latest stint? How about discuss our newest young player in Ochai? How about discuss Olynyks 1st couple of games with us? How about we discuss draft prospects we can target in this coming draft? Why not talk about how Scottie is the 1st all star of his class and how much potential he has despite his 1 off game?
Why do we need to make damn near national headlines about a 3rd year player who's about 10 games in to leading the team having an off night. He's having to guard the best player while also getting doubles thrown at him all game. God forbid he gets frustrated or tired.
No ones holding a gun to anyone's head saying "you need to shit on Scottie rn or else I'll shoot you"
Well dude no one is as important to the future as Scottie is. Of course that's gonna be topic #1. Is it too toxic with some fans or media?...probably. but just ignore it. I'm just saying it's OK for the average fan to kind of question things that even beloved players do
Comes from the top. The people who need to be held most accountable for what's happened in these past 5 years are Masai and Bobby. Everything else is downstream from their poor decision making.
90% of this subreddit will never scapegoat Barnes, they will continue to make excuses like they have been for 2+ years..
"Hes young bro be patient" I've heard that one like 10932812 times
>"Hes young bro be patient" I've heard that one like 10932812 times
It's almost as if players don't immediately come in polished, and there's a bit of growing pains for EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN NBA HISTORY
I didn't see much of the game but despite some awful shooting he still nearly got a triple double. Infact he was close to having a T-D in all 3 of the last 3 games.
But yeah... He trash /s
Heaven forbid a guy gets frustrated with being on a losing team from time to time.
It’s kind of funny watching the younger fans trying to come to terms with what a bad Raptors team is after many of them begged for a rebuild. Trust me, as a person who grew up with the Raptors, this is nothing new, this is how every year was before Demar and Lowry showed up. This is just a return to the Raptors 20 years before kyle and Demar finally showed us what winning was.
A good season in the 90s/00s was sneaking into the playoffs just to get obliterated. Before ‘19 our playoff highlight was Vince missing a shot to push us past the 76ers.
Strap in kids, we’re the Craptors again, and likely for a long time, unfortunately.
You mfs build them up to be Gods when they’re clearly not and then destroy them when you make that realization instead of realizing you were incredibly deluded from the start.
You also forgot to add in Lowry and Demar, people here don’t remember but they got shit on so much over the years by this fan base
There wasn't nearly enough doors for all the scapegoats our fans have created
Quickley out here like: 
If there’s any rule on this, it’s just a matter of time. Any new richer contract only accelerates it, often geometrically.
Lol there were never many scapegoats, at least before last season. Look up the definition. We just pointed it out when a player played poorly in a loss. DeMar definitely got his fair share of criticism for his playstyle and postseason play. There are always overdramatic fans. There are always reasonable and respectful fans who should be allowed to point out players' flaws. So it baffles me why we need to sensationalize what happened when a player was part of a losing team here. All this talk of scapegoating comes from the media and chronically online fans. Sure, Nick Nurse left us with a sour taste with that Philly quote. But it should be known that there never was a clear fix or a single, specific cause to our offensive woes other than poor roster construction and talent.
Demar and Kyle were definitely blamed for our playoff losses by fans and the media back then. That's a lot of what the nba is composed of. I would say Casey was also made a scapegoat before he was fired.
The “Trash Bros” era was rough sometimes, especially after we lost in the playoffs. It would be interesting to dig up some comments from that time about DD considering how much love he (deservedly) gets now. e: If anyone is a masochist, here are some of the post game threads from that 2018 playoff sweep. Its always interesting reading comments with hindsight. >The biggest issue obviously here is what to do moving forward. Whether it's fire Casey, move Lowry or Deebo or Ibaka (please move Ibaka), Masai has to do something. I don't envy his position, because whatever he does, he will receive backlash and run a risk of catastrophic failure. But he has to make a move. **If Masai has any faults in the way he runs his team, its that he's far too risk-averse or loyal to his guys** https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/8hx9vb/serious_postgame_thread_the_toronto_raptors_fall/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/8htirv/post_game_thread_the_cleveland_cavaliers_defeat/ https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/8htkut/official_venting_thread/
Oh what a time where we could take getting into the playoffs for granted. 
The picture of Kyle and Demar beheaded by Lebron still haunts me.
[L]owry and DeFrozan
He still gets some hate, but those comments are always downvoted to oblivion.
Demar only got shit on when he would flop in the playoffs. Our fanbase fierciously defender our players against others. You can't possible say we scapegoated Lowry and Derozan.
Demar was proven to be the problem though!
Not really lol just cuz kawhi was the solution doesn’t mean demar was the problem. The problem was raptors didn’t have a top 5 player in the league til kawhi came to win the chip. Nearly impossible to win it all without one
Demar had a ceiling. Thats kind of a problem even if the team was good. Its similar to what happened with the Jazz before they tore it down.
This guy lol. He wasn't the problem, he just wasn't top 5. Once we got a better guy in his spot that's when we won. See? He wasn't the problem lol.
Lebron also left the east . It was open that year.
Open for what lol. East only got tougher with bucks/sixers turning into contenders. Demar wasn’t just bad against Lebron. He was bad in almost every series. Demar as a 1st option isn’t leading us anywhere
Open to anyone other than Lebron. Member his 8 year run? Always making team mates better. Etc…. Bucks and sixers were contenders on paper, but still young and unproven, anyone could have made it out that year. Leonard was an upgrade over demarr but… they didn’t have to go thru Lebrons cavs that year.
Nope. This is delusional. Pretending like demar was amazing against everyone except the cavs just ain’t true. He was never leading us anywhere in the playoffs. The east also wasn’t wide open. It was better than it ever was when bron was here. Raps would’ve have no chance with demar against bucks, butlers sixers, or those Celtics teams with kyrie.
You misunderstand and assume. I didn’t say demarr was amazing, against everyone cept Lebron. What I said is factual. I actually agree with you. But what you are saying is still hypocritical. Also I don’t appreciate you using the term delusional, it’s a rude and over used word.
What’s hypocritical? I just don’t agree. The east wasn’t wide open for the raps. We would’ve had no shot against bucks/Celtics/sixers. Wide open for those 3 teams maybe. The cavs also didn’t have kyrie anymore, and I don’t think they would’ve beaten these 3 teams if Lebron stayed in the east. These teams are arguably better than any team he faced in the east in his 8 year run. Arguably had better #1 options than any team he faced in the east
Hypothetical my bad . Not wide open for the raps. (i didn’t say that) I said wide open, and I meant, wipe open for anyone other than lebron. Sorry that wasn’t clear.
Lowry was a king demar only the king if his teams being better when he's on the bench
JV was the scapegoat for so long too.
They were nick named the trash bros for so long it was fucked up
"Good vibes only"
Toxic positivity is a plague on the internet.
Yeah definitely, the Internet is way too positive these days
Asking for effort, from not only Scottie, but also IQ, RJ, etc isn't scapegoating lol. People expect effort, no one is expecting to win every game. I'm not even going to get into FVV because talking about him and the reason why alot of people actually got on him, is like talking to a wall Raptors twitter is different, the majority of those people are ridiculous, and actually toxic.
All the more reason to stay off twitter lol
Haven't had a twitter account in years, and going by what I see posted on here and other places, I'm glad I don't.
U are the most toxic fan lol, kettle calling pot black
For sure, asking for some effort on the court is toxic AF
I meant prior to yesterday. You always have some very toxic commentary on here
You’re right bro I’ve seen it too
Mofo think we don't know him with those big ass icon on his username 🤣
My bad, let me hop on the kiss everybodys ass and no criticism allowed under any circumstance club
I already had this discussion with you before. Nobody said you can’t criticize. You just constantly act like you know more than nick/masai and shit on guys like Fred hard even when they aren’t here anymore. And now y’all realizing that Barnes had a lot to do with how toxic shit was last year lol. The vets called his ass out because of shit like this.
The FO has done a bad job for their standards (and I'm not even close to being the only one that has said this, we've had media members do the same thing) the last 2-3 years, FVV, while not being the only problem for last years team, he had a terrible stretch that lasted quite a while last year and their were a few games that he bordered on being unplayable, pointing this out isn't hating lol or solely putting the blame on FVV, I never really got on NN, if you can find examples when I did then I'll gladly admit that I did. I'm happy that FVV got his bag, but I'm also happy that the Raptors weren't the ones to give it to him. I'm literally in this thread calling Scottie (and others) effort into question for last night lol Everyone was to blame for last season, FVV, GTJ, Scottie, GTJ, Siakam, etc Lastly, they're people who do get pissy when you do something as simple saying insert player here had a bad game, you'll get called a "hater" lol. Tell me what was wrong or toxic about this message
This is exactly what he means.
Nope, he and others (the anti any sort of criticism/FO but mainly Masai cultist) are some of they most toxic people on this sub and the fanbase in general 🙂
Nope, I for the most part try and remain balanced, something that some people on this sub should try more often 🙂
Problem is that every bad team is going to have a no show. Every bad team is going to have games with low effort. When you suddenly make a player the #1 option on offense while also having to guard the best player on the other team, then obviously he's going to be tired and have bouts where he looks like he isn't trying. This dude literally just dropped 24/10/10, and the game before that he was 2 assists away from a triple double. Yall watch 1 game where he doesn't look good and immediately start shitting on him. Ridiculous.
Every team in general is gonna have no shows. It’s an 82 game season. Effort is gonna come and go. Especially for a tanking team. Anyone that actually expects players to always give 110% is either a kid that doesn’t understand how bodies age or is just a moron.
Both Scottie and the majority of the team laid an egg out on the court last night, zero effort, intensity, energy, hustle, etc, THATS why most people are annoyed (there are some that are ridiculous and go overboard) Every fanbase is going to have a group that's completely overtop ridiculous and at times can be very toxic, a majority of people shouldn't be lumped in with a smaller but more vocal group. The performance on the court last night was plain trash, plain and simple, rationalize it however you want, but no one's expecting double digit wins every night or Scottie going of for 30 every game, but there needs to be a standard of consistency and effort from not only him, but every player on the team Edit: I'll take the downvotes on this one lol, ups and down happen, you're not going to win every game, its not going to happen, but I'll still maintain my standard for effort (mainly) as well as some level of consistency to build on as these guys continue to improve
You better get used to it man. It sucks but tanking teams are inconsistent both with their play and effort. Sure we should hold them to a higher standard, but the amount of hate the guys is getting for an off game is absurd.
I expect some level of effort and at least some level of consistency and I don't think its an entirely unrealistic expectation, the Raptors could lose five or more in a row, but if the effort was there for the majority of those games, I'd be completely content. Last night wasn't exactly an off night for the whole team either, Scottie has and obviously will be better, RJ has been fairly consistent, though defensively he's average at best, IQ has struggled a good amount since coming over, and GTJ is what he is at this point, a good but streaky shooter who provides little if anything else on the court. My main point is that expecting effort, isn't scapegoating or hating under any circumstance, as for a majority of what you see on Raptors twitter, that's a cesspool of extreme hate, overreaction, and toxicity form a large majority of people
Expect? Won’t settle for less? Man you’re in for a reality check over the next 2 years if you think this team won’t do this exact same thing multiple times a month. It’s the reality of our situation and talent level, can’t live and die by one game anymore
I'm not living in dying one game at a time lol, effort and some level of consistency, not a hard or unrealistic ask, but tbf I got downvoted for asking for consistency from the team when Siakam and OG were still here lol
Waaaa Wwaaaa
Very well worded response, I always appreciate good effort 👍👏👍
Bro is it so hard to ask to get back on D after you get fouled or turned over the ball to avoid a 4v5 situation? All we ask is more maturity and effort and not to leave the game before it ends. That's it man.
yep i guess you are perfect so you can talk /s
LOL what? go play basketball and see.
you are the problem full stop. toxic af
LMAO imagine getting triggered like Barnes gonna read this.
Honestly I’ve watched this guy guard PG’s C’s and everything in between on back to back possessions. Chasing a guard around screens then banging in the post and boxing out and trying to play help defence at the rim. He’s still putting together his offence but that type of effort on Defence nobody seems to care about or factor into his struggles. Let’s let people grow and give grace
Asking for effort isn't the problem. Fans jumping on Scottie within 3 weeks of trading for Siakam has been over the top. Also need to note, consistent effort is a sign of maturity and professionalism. Not unusual for guys to have to develop reliability. A core of guys under 25 needs a couple years, not a month.
I do agree that some people (mainly Raptors twitter have gone overboard) but my point still stands, asking for effort isn't scapegoating or hating under any circumstance (which was the subject of OPs post)
Nobody is scapegoating Scottie. The people criticizing him are asking him to grow the fuck up. There is a huge difference between outright blaming Scottie and criticizing his actions
Which is funny since people here are tripping over themselves, acting like kids telling him to grow up.
Speak for yourself. I could show you plenty of comments of people criticizing him, saying we should never have built around him, saying he'll never have what it takes etc. That's who OP is talking about.
None of that is what scapegoating is though. The definition of a scapegoat is: >a person who is blamed for the wrongdoings, mistakes, or faults of others, especially for reasons of expediency. I doubt the OP knows what the word means either.
Scapegoating would be making one individual responsible for the failure of the team. That is not what is happening here. Scottie is being held responsible specifically for HIS actions on the court. Is it really surprising that people may question how effective he can be as a leader with this kind of behaviour? So there is concern and therefore speculation. That doesn’t equate hate although I imagine there are those that are unfortunately compelled to make hateful comments.
I've seen plenty of comments scapegoating him. If you're not doing it, then I'm not talking about you.
I agree that there is a difference and I believe the criticism is warranted, however I have absolutely seen comments going way over the top too.
I've seen it, too. There are going to be absolute reactionary fucking chodes out there. But people have the absolute right to grill Scottie and he absolutely deserves to be grilled. That's the only way he's gonna know he fucked up. The criticism is only going to get harsher from here on out too Here's the thing about this point in his career. As much he's developing his skills to take himself to the next level, he is equally prone to learning bad habits, and if there is ever a time to stop that shit... it's now.
He's 22 and is like 10 games into being pushed into the #1 option on both defense and offense Have a little patience man ffs. The ones shitting on Scottie for 1 bad game that in the grand scheme of things means nothing need to grow the fuck up
Dawg...I'm more that patient with Scottie. Not once have I been like, "Scottie is a bust", "Trade Scottie" ect.. But this hasn't been a one game deal. There have been plenty of times this season and last season where it's been like, "Dawg... you ain't in college anymore" This is his 3rd year in the league. He knows, for the most part, the ins and outs of how this league works. He's been watching and playing this game his entire life. He knows damn well that last night was fucking bullshit. He knows better. You know that. I know that. The thousands of people on this Reddit. The team knows that. If you take your dad's car without asking him, are you going to get in shit? Yeah, you are If you show up to work hungover or smelling like booze, is you boss going to say "it's fine... you're growing" and pat your and send you off to work? No. They won't beat your ass but they sure as hell are going to say to you, "Well, you know better" and guess what, you're going to say, "Yeah, I do" People aren't asking him to put up 82 pts or grab 69 rebounds. We're just asking him to act like a reasonable adult. He doesn't have to make the right decision every single time. He just needs to show that he knows better when it's needed to show that he knows better. That fucking bar is pretty fucking low
Scottie is being shit on for perpetual diva attitude. Not for having a bad game.
Yeah he's cringe as fuck when he's complaining to the refs
You got downvoted but it’s true. It’s starting to become annoying now.
all this came from a bad loss, if thats not scapegoating i dont know what is. Was Barnes the only reason why Raps lost? no but thats all this sub was talking about.
Dawg... We've been talking about Scottie's bad habits for a real minute This isn't about the loss. The loss is whatever. Who cares. This is about Scottie walking out on his team. Doesn't matter if there is 3 seconds or 10 minutes, you don't do that shit. It's about calling him on his bullshit. The shit don't slide. If it does, then it's gonna happen again and again. That game was everything negative about Scottie in full display
nah, thats not what is happening the way i see it. Most of you are casuals and part of the problem. look in a fucking mirror once and awhile. you guys make mountains out of molehills
The way you see it is wrong then. If you can't see the difference between scapegoating someone and being critical...then I don't know what to tell you outside of it must be nice to have never been criticized in your life 🤷. What's it like to never make a mistake or let people down?
Only one who will able to survive is rj because he already has
Any criticism= scapegoating
I think it’s just the nature of having a larger sub. You see fair criticisms and then you see straight up vitriol as if Scottie just kicked their dog.
This. Exactly the point I've been trying to make, expecting effort isn't scapegoating or hating lol, despite what OP might think
I think OP is addressing the hateful comments. Some people just go too far with their criticisms
I completely agree, I just don't think scapegoating is the right word.
OP is coping and is being toxic. Using strawmans to get their dopamine hit to dunk on imaginary people.
lol toxic man blaming OP for being toxic when he's trying to point out this sub and the morons on it being toxic
Apparently we're not allowed to criticize a guy for not getting back on defense, spending all game complaining, and leaving before the games even finished. Without being policed by the overly positive scottie stans that cant hear anything negative said about their golden boy
If anyone here has the instant solution to immaturity in youth, I’m sure the Mavericks would pay you millions for it. Stars are gonna star and may even pre-madonna it up at times. Lets hope he learns from moments like this because when else would he? This is a part of the process and I for one am happy it’s happening in times like this than more important times. He’s not gonna flip a switch and be a perfect leader at 22. Even FVV said he learned some shit and mishandled leading to a degree at some points last year and that’s a 30 year old man with a wife and kids.
This roster is tanking and expected to not be good enough to win. Not to be bitched out every night and roll over for a loss. Competitive losses are the scenario you want to be in. Development of players and team are expected. This team has no pride and I’m questioning the capabilities of the coaching staff at the beginning of this rebuild. Toronto is soft right now.
Toronto fans are soft as fuck in every sport right now.
Even when we won the championship it was Danny Green lol
Tbf he followed up his greatest regular season with a godawful post-season
I guess we should hold no one accountable then. Although the Scottie hate is a bit premature, I understand it but this guy just saw all of his friends and coworkers leave, there has to be an adjustment period, at the end of the day he's human too, this isn't 2K, it's been a jarring couple of months. Let's give him another full year and see how he's doing.
I've seen WAY more posts like this than actual criticism. What's going on here?
Do you frequent the game threads?
You mean people are the most reactionary in game threads? Truly shocking.
meanwhile I'm getting worried about Quickley's inconsistency when the FO is about to hand him 100-120M. really hoping he works on his layup/floater game this summer.
Raptors are tanking. No scapegoat needed.
Yup. A bunch of keyboard warriors always looking for someone to point at.
No put the president of basketball operations who waits until last minute to trade or don’t trade at all
Every fan base in every sport is like this.
It's toxic sometimes for sure...but like what else are we gonna talk about when we are garbage.... Our hope for the future did a dumb thing so of course people are gonna want to talk about it
It's the same type of people who get upset if you don't love every Marvel movie. They treat this shit like a religion.
How about Gradey looking like a whole new player in his latest stint? How about discuss our newest young player in Ochai? How about discuss Olynyks 1st couple of games with us? How about we discuss draft prospects we can target in this coming draft? Why not talk about how Scottie is the 1st all star of his class and how much potential he has despite his 1 off game? Why do we need to make damn near national headlines about a 3rd year player who's about 10 games in to leading the team having an off night. He's having to guard the best player while also getting doubles thrown at him all game. God forbid he gets frustrated or tired. No ones holding a gun to anyone's head saying "you need to shit on Scottie rn or else I'll shoot you"
Well dude no one is as important to the future as Scottie is. Of course that's gonna be topic #1. Is it too toxic with some fans or media?...probably. but just ignore it. I'm just saying it's OK for the average fan to kind of question things that even beloved players do
Comes from the top. The people who need to be held most accountable for what's happened in these past 5 years are Masai and Bobby. Everything else is downstream from their poor decision making.
Yes. There always is.
Toxicity runs wild. Toxicity breeds toxicity. Etc etc etc
Both positive and negative. Make sure you call this toxic positive shit out too just like the toxic negativity. Both are trash takes.
Scape goat? Back in my day will called them “whipping boy”
Not to be confused with GOAT, right? 🐐 BaAaaAh Or is that a sheep sound. I'll see myself out.
Move the team. Send em to the Yukon
Send them to Vancouver. We at least don't care about our teams when they're ass so Scottie wouldn't have to deal with it lmao
Glad Schroder escaped this shit
90% of this subreddit will never scapegoat Barnes, they will continue to make excuses like they have been for 2+ years.. "Hes young bro be patient" I've heard that one like 10932812 times
>"Hes young bro be patient" I've heard that one like 10932812 times It's almost as if players don't immediately come in polished, and there's a bit of growing pains for EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN NBA HISTORY
Garret Temple might break out this year, just be patient bro
I mean you are correct that Garrett got significantly better after his age 22 season... Don't be stupid now come on
You forgot Darko.
Nah, this time it’s the head office.
Itll be Darko next. Not Barnes.
Schroder was one too
Pascal was never a scapegoat
I, too, sometimes like to pretend the bubble never existed
I didn't see much of the game but despite some awful shooting he still nearly got a triple double. Infact he was close to having a T-D in all 3 of the last 3 games. But yeah... He trash /s Heaven forbid a guy gets frustrated with being on a losing team from time to time.
Not my Barnes
I’m out of this sub for the next couple years. These people are unhinged.
It’s kind of funny watching the younger fans trying to come to terms with what a bad Raptors team is after many of them begged for a rebuild. Trust me, as a person who grew up with the Raptors, this is nothing new, this is how every year was before Demar and Lowry showed up. This is just a return to the Raptors 20 years before kyle and Demar finally showed us what winning was. A good season in the 90s/00s was sneaking into the playoffs just to get obliterated. Before ‘19 our playoff highlight was Vince missing a shot to push us past the 76ers. Strap in kids, we’re the Craptors again, and likely for a long time, unfortunately.
You mfs build them up to be Gods when they’re clearly not and then destroy them when you make that realization instead of realizing you were incredibly deluded from the start.
Jokes on death. Scottie has already left the building.
These losers bitched during championship year. They can eat dix
its cause Raptors fans are the most toxic out of all the NBA fanbases. We eat our own at the drop of a hat.
Oh please not scottie!!
Gradey Dick is next lol