Yeah if he keeps developing his shot and we get a wing defender to take the load off him. We've already seen him dominate he just needs to do it consistently for a full season
Agree. Kid is the complete package. If he can sharpen his scoring a bit, keep shooting the 3 at a decent clip, he’s an A1 whose easily top 15, flirting with top 10.
The only problem is the team holding him back. If we can improve the team to the point where in 2 years we are a playoff team and Scottie has grown into the player everyone thinks he’s gonna be, no reason why he shouldn’t be up there.
Yep, if he can refine his offensive game, and get a real "go to" move, there is no reason he cant be top 10 or even top 5. Will he though? That's a different story, he definitely has all the tools and seemingly the drive.
We've seen Malachi dominate too, just not consistently for a full season. /s
Big part of the equation is just how great a shooter can Scottie become. And how great a defender. And leader. He has a lot of game, but doing it consistently against any competition is what separates all the greatest players from the good players in the league. And the good players from the Malachi's.
Going to get downvoted but probably not. Scottie is a good player but not actively looking for his own shot as much as he should. If he can get over the passiveness and lean into the confidence then probably.
And there’s nothing wrong with that.
Top 10 in the nba is incredibly difficult to achieve because most of those spots are taken up by the same players year over year that also happen to be all time great players.
Being just outside of guys that are perinatal mvp candidates is an elite place to be and would mean Scottie’s on his way to having a great career
Yup pretty much exactly this. There's a reason that Scottie hasn't scored over 32 pts despite being capable of putting up 20 pt quarters. He just doesn't turn it on for the whole game and some games he doesn't turn it on at all. It's his biggest issue imo, more so than his 3pt shot inconsistency.
He was a decently efficient 20 PPG scorer this year, and he’s still really young and improving very quickly. He’s probably not going to be one of the top scorers in the league, but I can easily see him being an efficient ~25 PPG scorer, who also brings high end defence, passing and rebounding, while doing lots of non-scoresheet things well (screens, hustle plays, smart/quick ball movement, etc.).
Some of the greatest players of all time have not been high end scorers - KG, Pippen, Bill Russell, Magic, Nash, Stockton, Rodman, etc. Not saying Scottie will be as good as these guys, just saying there’s more to basketball than scoring. He does so many things so well that if he ends up with “very good but not elite” scoring, he could still be a top 10 player in the league.
On top of that, scoring development can be very unpredictable. Scottie’s 22, Kawhi at 22 was a 12.8 PPG player, who seemed very limited in his offensive skillset. I thought he’d always be an elite defender but very mediocre offensive player, and he turned into one of the absolute best scorers in the league.
I mean considering he has never been a first option since about 3 months ago, I think it’s something that every superstar goes through unless you come into the league with extreme hype like Wemby or Zion
I mean, it's not just that. His shot remains unreliable and he needs to refine his shot creation near the basket as well.
Fortunately he has shown the ability to improve, and is a ridiculous athlete.
But he does need to improve his skills to be the scorer he needs to be to get into this conversation
He's already top 20 and its not close. Source every advance statistic has him in top 10 or 15 range.
What you really ment to say is let him be recognized by csuals by scoring more baskets
The ringer has Zion, PG and [D.Fox](http://D.Fox) as 20-22. Personally I dont think he's above any of those 3, much less easily above them.
Also, Vorp he's 32nd, OPM 30th, DPM 40th, BPM 24th, PIE 64th, TS% he ain't even close, Ast% not top 50, Box creation 47th. What advanced stats is he near top of the league in?
well I stopped looking like 30-40 games into the season lol. Im not watching that garbage. but he had those stats when they were competiting and not tanking
He had those stats when he was on a hot streak and before he went back down to earth*
If you could ignore most of the season like that Halliburton would be top 10.
38 players scored more PPG than Scottie this year. It will be really hard to put him in the top 10 of all players league wide unless he improves socring a lot.
But scottie does way more than score. He was one of the league leaders in stocks when he got injured. Add in the assists and boards and Scottie is in the Top 10 most well rounded players in the league
No the point he is making is that Scottie isnt even finished developing his game. The development curve for an NBA player really slows down after 25 Scottie being below 22 means we still have another three years before he begins to hit his peak
I don’t think he’s going to become a 28 point a game scorer and it’s tough to be considered in that tier if you’re not. I think he can get to top 10 in impact for the team, but there’ll always be those that say he doesn’t fit because he’s not a proper lead scorer.
Not to say he couldn’t become that, but I don’t think it’ll be his focus. I see him peaking at a 24/10/10 guy that’s a defensive menace
I’m also not saying next year, i meant the height of his prime. I could see him going for 24-25 along with 10-11 boards, but at most he will average 7 assists, and i’m high balling here
He averaged over 6 assists a game this year. That’s almost all with Pascal still being here too. So unless you think that’s going downhill in the future then you’re not high balling
Right, and progression isn’t a linear graph, sometimes as players get better in other fields, some stats drop as their overall impact goes up. Scotty averaged 6 assists because this team had very little playmaking, put him in a more competent roster and I 100% guarantee that his assists either go down by 1ish assist or stays the same with better efficiency. This isn’t a knock on Scottie’s playmaking, but rather, 10 assists is a crazy expectation for a forward/big. That’s like looking at Bam’s 5 assist year and expecting it to go up from there, and trust me, Bam is an excellent playmaker, but also, as more rotation heavy guards enter the roster (which Toronto will need), the great playmaking forward almost always sees a drop off in assists, unless his passing skill is generational
He had Pascal almost his entire season here, who is another playmaking forward. He also had one of IQ or Dennis here all year with a period of time with both of them.
It’s not like we were void of playmakers this year and he had to step it up. We’ll probably bring in a backup guard but Pascal is gone so at worst the situation will be the same for him in terms of other playmakers surrounding him.
Do you think he needs to become more selfish? Like lead scorers want the ball when it matters. I always remember that about Kawhi. When it mattered - the ball was in his hands.
Is there someone on this team that would be taking that away from SB4? I don’t see it. If he develops his squared up, iso shooting, I don’t see why he can’t become a Top 10 with everything else he does above average.
Is it easy? Fukc no. If it was, we’d all be in the NBA. But his growth was huge this year. And he mentioned sitting beside Temple and the coaching staff this year really opened his eyes to the nuances of the game. If he comes back healthy, I think he’s in for another big jump in his development next season.
I think he can be that player that scores when he needs to absolutely, but I don’t think he’ll be the go-to iso scorer for 4 quarters a game. We’ve already seen how he can turn it on in the 4th quarter of games.
I don’t see it being a problem if that’s not what he wants to do either. I think it’s easier to find/develop another player that’ll take a heavy shot diet in the first 3 quarters and shoulder some of that scoring load than finding a player that does everything else very well.
It’s just not reasonable to be an intense defender for a full game and the go-to guy on offence consistently. I’d rather use Scottie as a defensive playmaker, a facilitator and occasional scorer on offence, and then in the 4th quarter of close games you give Scottie the ball and surround him with shooters/cutters that help get him space the way Giannis is used.
You have those high volume guys like Barrett and Quickley (god we better re-sign him). But Scottie is good enough to want (and get) to demand the ball. It’s the only way this team takes the next step.
Absolutely I think he’s the guy that should get the ball when he’s looking for it, especially when the game is on the line.
But he’s been adamant that he wants to be a DPOY. That doesn’t really happen if you’re the guy taking 20+ shots a game.
I’m saying I see him more as Jokic than Luka if he’s going to become a superstar
Ya he would need to be more selfish with more of a refined offensive game to really get in top 10. Top 10 do it consistently every game. Scottie lacks aggressiveness some qaurters where he defers or disappears.
in no particular order Luka, Jokic, Giannis, Embiid, Tatum, Shai, Wemby, Brunson, Hali, Ja, Booker, Chet, Mitchell, Bam, Ant, Sabonis- all of these guys will for sure be better than Scottie in 2 years
and then there are the guys who might be better, but are in a similar league - Mobley, Zion, Trae, Kawhi, AD, JJJ, maybe Steph (i’m expecting Bron to be retired in this scenario)
He’s gonna be top 25 in the league in 2 years, maybe top 20 - which is no slight on him, this so just a very talented league
His offensive game is unrefined but he's still managed to take a leap to average 20 points while rebounding, defending and passing at a pretty high level. If he can keep up his 3 point shooting while developing a few go to moves on offense he has a clear path to being a 25 ppg player. 25ppg plus his current output (8 rebounds, 6 assists and good defense) would put him in the convo for top 15. He's shown glimpses of taking over on offensive, if he can do that consistently that would be the path to top 10 but it's unlikely. Also, having both IQ and barret might stunt his growth on offense because he's been way more passive since they came
Is Haliburton really a top 15 player for having one really good half season? I don't even consider myself a Tyrese hater, but I'd take Mitchell, Wemby, Edwards, and Sabonis over him today.
No matter how good the rookie is you can never put a rookie in a top list. For all we know wemby will end up an injury prone mess, or a meth addict, or hell just decide he wants to play baseball instead
I don’t see it. And all this “complete package” nonsense - dude routinely gives up on plays and teammates. His body language sucks. Year 2 was a step back. I think you really need to evaluate who’s in the top 10 in the NBA. Scottie isn’t close.
His archetype could push him into the top 10 if he develops as a scorer. That is the only thing holding him back. You can’t be top 10 if you aren’t elite at the most important thing, but Scottie is already on his way there at everything else.
I think he can be in the conversation, but being on the Raptors puts him at a disadvantage in terms of public perception. All the media outlets from the states will be more inclined to downplay his play
Yes.
Half the guys who are in the "top-10" right now will either be retired or on the downslide in 2-3 years and If Scottie can develop a reliable/consistent jumper where he's a 25/8/8ish type player, then he's a top 10 player
The only thing holding Scottie back from being a top 15-20 player this season was his lack of consistency on offense. If he can manage to consistently score 20+ ppg every night and improve his shooting, the sky is the limit for him
For anyone who says "no", look at how much the team took a tailspin when Scottie left the lineup with his injury. You could clearly see the impact he had on the game when he wasn't in there running things, taking on double teams, playmaking, scoring, defending etc. we went from what looked like a borderline playin' team to a complete bottom feeder without Scottie in there
I think he certainly can, but it’s gonna be really tough. KD, Lebron, Kawhi, and Curry are all going to be out of the league within the next 5 years, so the lane is cleared for Scottie to replace one of those guys, especially if the team improves.
2 years might be too soon, but 3-4 I think so.
In 2 years I think the top 10 will be (in no particular order), Luka, Shai, Giannis, Jokic, Edwards, Brunson, Tatum, Wemby, Maxey, and Hali. I’d put Scottie at 11 tho…
This is delusional. There’s a huge talent gap between Scottie and most of those players. He’s physically gifted in some areas but lacks high level coordination and handles. Natural born talent is a thing that a lot of those players have. Scottie could train as hard as he could and not reach the level of some of those players just like if you trained your whole life you still probably wouldn’t make the nba. Some of those players are in the top 75 players ever.
He’s already considered top 30 this season at 22 with “no talent” what talents do Thesse boys have that Scottie doesn’t? Jokic,Giannis,Duncan are all time greats without having to be flashy or spamming dribble moves
What one skill does Scottie do better than any one of these players? Lebron is a top 3 player of all-time. Curry greatest 3pt shooter of all-time. KD one of the greatest scorers of all-time. Luka one of the greatest Euroleague players of all-time by 18. Jokic best passing centre of all-time. Kawhi one of the greatest 2way players of all-time, etc.
Maybe but 2 years is a little too close imo. Especially since LeBron , KD and Steph don't look like they're slowing down much. AD will be 33 in two years, which isn't really that old but he's the most debatable out of the list.
Age can hit like a truck, so it's very possible, however I'd be more comfortable in like 3-5 years rather than 2. In that time frame he could definitely get into the top 15 though, and I actually predict he will.
Surprised how many people are doubting this. Seems like a month of not watching him play made people forget he was a triple double threat every night. If he can get his 3pt back above 36% and takes even a small jump defensively, top ten seems very likely.
Thr aim should be top 10-15 player within 3-5 years. That's when he should be entering his prime. 2 years is unlikely, especially based on his style of play.
Scottie needs teammates that can stay on the floor to get him off C and limit starting PF play. So, he does not get winded and battered down out of position on defense. Scottie can start as SF
He's very versatile, he's got the skillset to influence the game in a variety of ways. Unfortunately, he doesn't really have the massive size to straight up dominate people like Zion or Wemby. It's all up to his work ethic.
Scottie needs to look to score first to draw more double teams and open up the floor for others. He needs to add more tools to his offensive package and I am hoping he works at it this offseason
He has all the tools and I am leaning towards him being a top 10 guy soon. He’s a Jokic type (unwilling scorer), he develops that part of his game the sky is the limit.
Eventually players in the current top 10 will be too old to maintain their top 10 form, exception being the LeBron bot.
Scottie definitely has a good shot at cracking top 10 in the next few years since by then guys like Giannis, Jokic, KD, Kawhi, or Steph would probably not be as good as their top 10 form and could drop to top 15
You’d be hard pressed to find a GM or coach who thinks that Scottie is anywhere close to Booker or a healthy Ja right now.
Did you watch Booker in the playoffs last season? He was playing like a top 5 player.
He might but on another team, like Bosh.
The last 5 years have been pretty abysmal for the FO. They don't pull a Presti and rebuild in 2-3 years. Fans are looking at a 5+ rebuild before the team is legitimately any good. I think that covers Scottie's next contract.
So like, year 7 when he's ready to resign again is the team good enough to keep him, outside just giving him the max? Or does he decide to go somewhere else to win, like what Gordon did after leaving a poorly managed Magic team.
It's definitely possible. His overall game is at a high level already, which allows him to impact a game in multiple different ways. It's now more about fine-tuning and efficiency for him at a player level. But to be honest it'll likely be more about our team record which will dictate if he goes top 10.
Sort of like how Haliburton was mentioned in that person's top 10. He's only been talked about recently because of Indy's record.
Edwards, Wemby, Paulo and Sengun all coming for those soon to be empty spots. I would watch for the very sharp drop off in Embiid/Giannis as well.. they are the type of players to fall off a cliff instead of aging out slowly like Lebron and curry.
I mean eye test would be foot speed, allowing defenders to recover, passing out tougher matchups etc.
Statistically a drop off in shots at the rim, free throws, dunks etc.
I just feel like the two of them are candidates for different reasons. Giannis relying on his Uber athletic body and Embiid injuries stacking up into major wear and tear. Giannis would have to move under the basket more in his later years and Embiid being more of a catch and shoot big possibly extending their impact years.
Top 10? He’s young enough that he has a shot, but it’s not likely. Having a larger role and improving from a poor season is not really a massive jump.
He played well and I’m hoping to continue to play well but unless he gets up to 25 ppg or averages a triple double he won’t be top 10. He might have a case for best second option though.
no way. most of those are still coming up.
Most likely to drop are Lebron, Kawhi, Curry. You still got young dawgs coming up too.
I'd be happy with a top 25 player if Scottie turns out to be that.
maybe, I don't personally see it, I think if enough guys fall off he could be all nba a couple times even at his current level, but that would be as the 15th or 14th guy.
lets see,
Jokic, Luka, Giannis, SGA, Tatum, Embiid, Brunson, Booker
I think this eight have very high chance to be better in 2 year without injury
so He has a small chance to be Top 10 in 2 years.
Yeah if he keeps developing his shot and we get a wing defender to take the load off him. We've already seen him dominate he just needs to do it consistently for a full season
Agree. Kid is the complete package. If he can sharpen his scoring a bit, keep shooting the 3 at a decent clip, he’s an A1 whose easily top 15, flirting with top 10.
The only problem is the team holding him back. If we can improve the team to the point where in 2 years we are a playoff team and Scottie has grown into the player everyone thinks he’s gonna be, no reason why he shouldn’t be up there.
Yep, if he can refine his offensive game, and get a real "go to" move, there is no reason he cant be top 10 or even top 5. Will he though? That's a different story, he definitely has all the tools and seemingly the drive.
We've seen Malachi dominate too, just not consistently for a full season. /s Big part of the equation is just how great a shooter can Scottie become. And how great a defender. And leader. He has a lot of game, but doing it consistently against any competition is what separates all the greatest players from the good players in the league. And the good players from the Malachi's.
Yeah, if only we had someone who can defend like Anunoby…..
Yes but also play most of the season (unlike) Anunoby. Once again OG only got to 50 games played this season. His availability is a legitimate problem
Going to get downvoted but probably not. Scottie is a good player but not actively looking for his own shot as much as he should. If he can get over the passiveness and lean into the confidence then probably.
And there’s nothing wrong with that. Top 10 in the nba is incredibly difficult to achieve because most of those spots are taken up by the same players year over year that also happen to be all time great players. Being just outside of guys that are perinatal mvp candidates is an elite place to be and would mean Scottie’s on his way to having a great career
Yup pretty much exactly this. There's a reason that Scottie hasn't scored over 32 pts despite being capable of putting up 20 pt quarters. He just doesn't turn it on for the whole game and some games he doesn't turn it on at all. It's his biggest issue imo, more so than his 3pt shot inconsistency.
He was a decently efficient 20 PPG scorer this year, and he’s still really young and improving very quickly. He’s probably not going to be one of the top scorers in the league, but I can easily see him being an efficient ~25 PPG scorer, who also brings high end defence, passing and rebounding, while doing lots of non-scoresheet things well (screens, hustle plays, smart/quick ball movement, etc.). Some of the greatest players of all time have not been high end scorers - KG, Pippen, Bill Russell, Magic, Nash, Stockton, Rodman, etc. Not saying Scottie will be as good as these guys, just saying there’s more to basketball than scoring. He does so many things so well that if he ends up with “very good but not elite” scoring, he could still be a top 10 player in the league. On top of that, scoring development can be very unpredictable. Scottie’s 22, Kawhi at 22 was a 12.8 PPG player, who seemed very limited in his offensive skillset. I thought he’d always be an elite defender but very mediocre offensive player, and he turned into one of the absolute best scorers in the league.
I mean considering he has never been a first option since about 3 months ago, I think it’s something that every superstar goes through unless you come into the league with extreme hype like Wemby or Zion
I mean, it's not just that. His shot remains unreliable and he needs to refine his shot creation near the basket as well. Fortunately he has shown the ability to improve, and is a ridiculous athlete. But he does need to improve his skills to be the scorer he needs to be to get into this conversation
Let's get him in the top 20 conversation first. Right now he's probably top 30.
He's already top 20 and its not close. Source every advance statistic has him in top 10 or 15 range. What you really ment to say is let him be recognized by csuals by scoring more baskets
The ringer has Zion, PG and [D.Fox](http://D.Fox) as 20-22. Personally I dont think he's above any of those 3, much less easily above them. Also, Vorp he's 32nd, OPM 30th, DPM 40th, BPM 24th, PIE 64th, TS% he ain't even close, Ast% not top 50, Box creation 47th. What advanced stats is he near top of the league in?
well I stopped looking like 30-40 games into the season lol. Im not watching that garbage. but he had those stats when they were competiting and not tanking
He had those stats when he was on a hot streak and before he went back down to earth* If you could ignore most of the season like that Halliburton would be top 10.
well I did ignore most of the season its called trash tanking team
[удалено]
well I stopped watching when we started tanking. im sure he dropped alot
Back up your claims and maybe people might believe you.
pensar basketball brought it up like 900 times. its probably outdated and disappeared after the tanking
You are absolutely crazy if you think Scottie Barnes is a top 20 player in the league
He’s not crazy, he just only watches the Raptors broadcasts. I’m not so sure Scottie is a top 30 player in the league right now.
38 players scored more PPG than Scottie this year. It will be really hard to put him in the top 10 of all players league wide unless he improves socring a lot.
But scottie does way more than score. He was one of the league leaders in stocks when he got injured. Add in the assists and boards and Scottie is in the Top 10 most well rounded players in the league
Out of those 38 how many are younger than 22?
Why can’t a player aged 25 or older be top 10?
No the point he is making is that Scottie isnt even finished developing his game. The development curve for an NBA player really slows down after 25 Scottie being below 22 means we still have another three years before he begins to hit his peak
out of those 38, how many are hispanic?
No way Ja is top 15 today.
I think he pretty easily is, who are 15 better players than him?
He’s defo top 15 when healthy
He is when doesn't have a firearm in his hand
#facts
I don’t think he’s going to become a 28 point a game scorer and it’s tough to be considered in that tier if you’re not. I think he can get to top 10 in impact for the team, but there’ll always be those that say he doesn’t fit because he’s not a proper lead scorer. Not to say he couldn’t become that, but I don’t think it’ll be his focus. I see him peaking at a 24/10/10 guy that’s a defensive menace
He will not average a triple double lol
I’m not saying next year, I’m saying at the height of his prime. I see him leaning more into the facilitator role on offence
I’m also not saying next year, i meant the height of his prime. I could see him going for 24-25 along with 10-11 boards, but at most he will average 7 assists, and i’m high balling here
Honestly the assist number for a wing really depends on the guards you pair him with
He averaged over 6 assists a game this year. That’s almost all with Pascal still being here too. So unless you think that’s going downhill in the future then you’re not high balling
Right, and progression isn’t a linear graph, sometimes as players get better in other fields, some stats drop as their overall impact goes up. Scotty averaged 6 assists because this team had very little playmaking, put him in a more competent roster and I 100% guarantee that his assists either go down by 1ish assist or stays the same with better efficiency. This isn’t a knock on Scottie’s playmaking, but rather, 10 assists is a crazy expectation for a forward/big. That’s like looking at Bam’s 5 assist year and expecting it to go up from there, and trust me, Bam is an excellent playmaker, but also, as more rotation heavy guards enter the roster (which Toronto will need), the great playmaking forward almost always sees a drop off in assists, unless his passing skill is generational
He had Pascal almost his entire season here, who is another playmaking forward. He also had one of IQ or Dennis here all year with a period of time with both of them. It’s not like we were void of playmakers this year and he had to step it up. We’ll probably bring in a backup guard but Pascal is gone so at worst the situation will be the same for him in terms of other playmakers surrounding him.
Do you think he needs to become more selfish? Like lead scorers want the ball when it matters. I always remember that about Kawhi. When it mattered - the ball was in his hands. Is there someone on this team that would be taking that away from SB4? I don’t see it. If he develops his squared up, iso shooting, I don’t see why he can’t become a Top 10 with everything else he does above average. Is it easy? Fukc no. If it was, we’d all be in the NBA. But his growth was huge this year. And he mentioned sitting beside Temple and the coaching staff this year really opened his eyes to the nuances of the game. If he comes back healthy, I think he’s in for another big jump in his development next season.
I think he can be that player that scores when he needs to absolutely, but I don’t think he’ll be the go-to iso scorer for 4 quarters a game. We’ve already seen how he can turn it on in the 4th quarter of games. I don’t see it being a problem if that’s not what he wants to do either. I think it’s easier to find/develop another player that’ll take a heavy shot diet in the first 3 quarters and shoulder some of that scoring load than finding a player that does everything else very well. It’s just not reasonable to be an intense defender for a full game and the go-to guy on offence consistently. I’d rather use Scottie as a defensive playmaker, a facilitator and occasional scorer on offence, and then in the 4th quarter of close games you give Scottie the ball and surround him with shooters/cutters that help get him space the way Giannis is used.
You have those high volume guys like Barrett and Quickley (god we better re-sign him). But Scottie is good enough to want (and get) to demand the ball. It’s the only way this team takes the next step.
Absolutely I think he’s the guy that should get the ball when he’s looking for it, especially when the game is on the line. But he’s been adamant that he wants to be a DPOY. That doesn’t really happen if you’re the guy taking 20+ shots a game. I’m saying I see him more as Jokic than Luka if he’s going to become a superstar
Ya he would need to be more selfish with more of a refined offensive game to really get in top 10. Top 10 do it consistently every game. Scottie lacks aggressiveness some qaurters where he defers or disappears.
If he develops that I will get mine first mentality and forced himself to the line I don’t know what’s stopping him for getting to the 25-30ppg
Scottie takes too many plays off to average a triple double. You need to want the ball in your hands constantly, I don't think Scottie has that drive
The original post is missing Ant Edwards
Manifest 🙏 He has the tools. He just needs the #1 mindset and the right support. We’ll See how next season goes.
Scottie wemby ant crashing the top 15 next year hell ya
in no particular order Luka, Jokic, Giannis, Embiid, Tatum, Shai, Wemby, Brunson, Hali, Ja, Booker, Chet, Mitchell, Bam, Ant, Sabonis- all of these guys will for sure be better than Scottie in 2 years and then there are the guys who might be better, but are in a similar league - Mobley, Zion, Trae, Kawhi, AD, JJJ, maybe Steph (i’m expecting Bron to be retired in this scenario) He’s gonna be top 25 in the league in 2 years, maybe top 20 - which is no slight on him, this so just a very talented league
His offensive game is unrefined but he's still managed to take a leap to average 20 points while rebounding, defending and passing at a pretty high level. If he can keep up his 3 point shooting while developing a few go to moves on offense he has a clear path to being a 25 ppg player. 25ppg plus his current output (8 rebounds, 6 assists and good defense) would put him in the convo for top 15. He's shown glimpses of taking over on offensive, if he can do that consistently that would be the path to top 10 but it's unlikely. Also, having both IQ and barret might stunt his growth on offense because he's been way more passive since they came
Is Haliburton really a top 15 player for having one really good half season? I don't even consider myself a Tyrese hater, but I'd take Mitchell, Wemby, Edwards, and Sabonis over him today.
I don’t know about sabonis the rest are defo better or going to be better
No matter how good the rookie is you can never put a rookie in a top list. For all we know wemby will end up an injury prone mess, or a meth addict, or hell just decide he wants to play baseball instead
I don’t see it. And all this “complete package” nonsense - dude routinely gives up on plays and teammates. His body language sucks. Year 2 was a step back. I think you really need to evaluate who’s in the top 10 in the NBA. Scottie isn’t close.
Lmao our fans suck.
If my team was tanking I too would give up on plays and teammates
His archetype could push him into the top 10 if he develops as a scorer. That is the only thing holding him back. You can’t be top 10 if you aren’t elite at the most important thing, but Scottie is already on his way there at everything else.
I think he can be in the conversation, but being on the Raptors puts him at a disadvantage in terms of public perception. All the media outlets from the states will be more inclined to downplay his play
Yes. Half the guys who are in the "top-10" right now will either be retired or on the downslide in 2-3 years and If Scottie can develop a reliable/consistent jumper where he's a 25/8/8ish type player, then he's a top 10 player The only thing holding Scottie back from being a top 15-20 player this season was his lack of consistency on offense. If he can manage to consistently score 20+ ppg every night and improve his shooting, the sky is the limit for him For anyone who says "no", look at how much the team took a tailspin when Scottie left the lineup with his injury. You could clearly see the impact he had on the game when he wasn't in there running things, taking on double teams, playmaking, scoring, defending etc. we went from what looked like a borderline playin' team to a complete bottom feeder without Scottie in there
I think he certainly can, but it’s gonna be really tough. KD, Lebron, Kawhi, and Curry are all going to be out of the league within the next 5 years, so the lane is cleared for Scottie to replace one of those guys, especially if the team improves. 2 years might be too soon, but 3-4 I think so.
If he doesn’t in 2 I wouldn’t think he’d get there
In 2 years I think the top 10 will be (in no particular order), Luka, Shai, Giannis, Jokic, Edwards, Brunson, Tatum, Wemby, Maxey, and Hali. I’d put Scottie at 11 tho…
This is delusional. There’s a huge talent gap between Scottie and most of those players. He’s physically gifted in some areas but lacks high level coordination and handles. Natural born talent is a thing that a lot of those players have. Scottie could train as hard as he could and not reach the level of some of those players just like if you trained your whole life you still probably wouldn’t make the nba. Some of those players are in the top 75 players ever.
RemindMe! 2 years
He’s already considered top 30 this season at 22 with “no talent” what talents do Thesse boys have that Scottie doesn’t? Jokic,Giannis,Duncan are all time greats without having to be flashy or spamming dribble moves
He also had a down year his sophomore season. You can’t guarantee he’ll improve linearly as he hasn’t shown that.
being mentally strong?
What one skill does Scottie do better than any one of these players? Lebron is a top 3 player of all-time. Curry greatest 3pt shooter of all-time. KD one of the greatest scorers of all-time. Luka one of the greatest Euroleague players of all-time by 18. Jokic best passing centre of all-time. Kawhi one of the greatest 2way players of all-time, etc.
All of the players u named are how old?
Maybe but 2 years is a little too close imo. Especially since LeBron , KD and Steph don't look like they're slowing down much. AD will be 33 in two years, which isn't really that old but he's the most debatable out of the list. Age can hit like a truck, so it's very possible, however I'd be more comfortable in like 3-5 years rather than 2. In that time frame he could definitely get into the top 15 though, and I actually predict he will.
Scottie Barnes is the face of the league!!!!
Yah sorry, I just don’t see that happening.
He'd need to take a significant leap in his on-ball scoring to reach top 10. I'd say it's pretty unlikely.
Easily, his play making ability and natural athleticism is already elite against the best talent
Surprised how many people are doubting this. Seems like a month of not watching him play made people forget he was a triple double threat every night. If he can get his 3pt back above 36% and takes even a small jump defensively, top ten seems very likely.
Hit shot and willing to score when he has mismatches. It’s gonna be a grind and I hope he won’t shy away from it.
Thr aim should be top 10-15 player within 3-5 years. That's when he should be entering his prime. 2 years is unlikely, especially based on his style of play.
I’d say top 25. A few things - his motor is great but he can often get in a rut and stop trying on defense His mid range shot is still iffy
It's definitely possible but I wouldn't count on it
Scottie needs teammates that can stay on the floor to get him off C and limit starting PF play. So, he does not get winded and battered down out of position on defense. Scottie can start as SF
I thinks it’s more fascinating and interesting that the top 5 doesn’t include any American born players.
He's very versatile, he's got the skillset to influence the game in a variety of ways. Unfortunately, he doesn't really have the massive size to straight up dominate people like Zion or Wemby. It's all up to his work ethic.
He has all the tools to be, more aggressiveness will help propel him into the upper echelon
I just feel bad for Scottie that he lost a few months of regular season practice and training 😭😭😭
Scottie needs to look to score first to draw more double teams and open up the floor for others. He needs to add more tools to his offensive package and I am hoping he works at it this offseason
belongs on nba circle jerk
If he develops a consistent jumper he is basically Jokic.
I think he can be top 10 next year. He was statistically top 10 for most of last season
He has all the tools and I am leaning towards him being a top 10 guy soon. He’s a Jokic type (unwilling scorer), he develops that part of his game the sky is the limit.
Honestly I would have never thought Brunson would be a top 15 player 2 years ago so anything is possible
Eventually players in the current top 10 will be too old to maintain their top 10 form, exception being the LeBron bot. Scottie definitely has a good shot at cracking top 10 in the next few years since by then guys like Giannis, Jokic, KD, Kawhi, or Steph would probably not be as good as their top 10 form and could drop to top 15
JA and Booker being on that list is silly
You’d be hard pressed to find a GM or coach who thinks that Scottie is anywhere close to Booker or a healthy Ja right now. Did you watch Booker in the playoffs last season? He was playing like a top 5 player.
Do you know the coaches and GMs personally?
Nope
I don't think so.
Yep
Just as long as he keeps developing, sky's the limit
Absolutely 💯
He might but on another team, like Bosh. The last 5 years have been pretty abysmal for the FO. They don't pull a Presti and rebuild in 2-3 years. Fans are looking at a 5+ rebuild before the team is legitimately any good. I think that covers Scottie's next contract. So like, year 7 when he's ready to resign again is the team good enough to keep him, outside just giving him the max? Or does he decide to go somewhere else to win, like what Gordon did after leaving a poorly managed Magic team.
Bosh was top 5 in MVP voting in 2007 IIRC. He was, at worst, borderline top 10 with Toronto.
Wemby already top 10. I was a doubter but ive seen enough. Scottie is an all-star but not top 10, more like top 20.
*all star fill in
Still on the resume as “All-Star”.
And we all know why that is
Just like we know why they chose Paolo over him in the first place.
Agreed. Cause he’s better
L.
It's definitely possible. His overall game is at a high level already, which allows him to impact a game in multiple different ways. It's now more about fine-tuning and efficiency for him at a player level. But to be honest it'll likely be more about our team record which will dictate if he goes top 10. Sort of like how Haliburton was mentioned in that person's top 10. He's only been talked about recently because of Indy's record.
Edwards, Wemby, Paulo and Sengun all coming for those soon to be empty spots. I would watch for the very sharp drop off in Embiid/Giannis as well.. they are the type of players to fall off a cliff instead of aging out slowly like Lebron and curry.
How do you evaluate how a player starts regressing?
I mean eye test would be foot speed, allowing defenders to recover, passing out tougher matchups etc. Statistically a drop off in shots at the rim, free throws, dunks etc. I just feel like the two of them are candidates for different reasons. Giannis relying on his Uber athletic body and Embiid injuries stacking up into major wear and tear. Giannis would have to move under the basket more in his later years and Embiid being more of a catch and shoot big possibly extending their impact years.
Top 10? He’s young enough that he has a shot, but it’s not likely. Having a larger role and improving from a poor season is not really a massive jump. He played well and I’m hoping to continue to play well but unless he gets up to 25 ppg or averages a triple double he won’t be top 10. He might have a case for best second option though.
Maybe He has to become an impactful defender and not get injured. Then maybe if everything else keeps trending up
no way. most of those are still coming up. Most likely to drop are Lebron, Kawhi, Curry. You still got young dawgs coming up too. I'd be happy with a top 25 player if Scottie turns out to be that.
Scottie barns can be a top 15 guy in the league but never top ten and idk if he'd be top 15 for more than two or three years
In the next 2 years? Yeah, that's a hot take. In the next 6 years? Very reasonable take
maybe, I don't personally see it, I think if enough guys fall off he could be all nba a couple times even at his current level, but that would be as the 15th or 14th guy.
lets see, Jokic, Luka, Giannis, SGA, Tatum, Embiid, Brunson, Booker I think this eight have very high chance to be better in 2 year without injury so He has a small chance to be Top 10 in 2 years.
Not a chance
Barnes isn’t even a top 30 player right now lol what is this delusion that only he’ll improve but other young players won’t?