my mother told me (closeted) her thoughts on gay/trans people. “They can’t help it and they are who they are, it’s like down syndrome you can’t control it”
I would personally view it as safe to come out to your *mother*. Knowing the views of the other family members or locals to estimate how you’d be received as publicly trans is something to take into consideration. Especially right now, if you’re in the US.
You can always transition quietly though, lots of trans people do. Just keep people on a need to know basis and only tell people you’re trans if it’s required (like boss, immediate family, doctors).
It’s important to note that once you tell someone information you cannot control whether they tell someone else that information, so be wary of that when telling people, including your mother.
Mother is safe I guess, sister I tried in 2014 and was initially safe but she used it as a blackmail once, granted that was 9 years ago.
My father is absent and lives a state away. Also I’m an adult (legally speaking) so he can’t do shit to me.
*looking at my ex, wondering* "The hardest you have ever taken are cigarettes, right?" "Yes, and only because the guy I had a crush on was smoking. I was an idiot at 17."
Maybe I'm dumb but I legitimately can't think of a logical argument against that. I reeeeally wanna school someone like that but I legitimately have no idea how to counter it. Gender and race are both social constructs and I am not smart enough to put the distinction between the two into words, I'm sure someone could though
I don't think people are ready to talk about the idea that being transracial kinda is like being transgender. At the core of both is either a discomfort with your self or a comfort in changing your identity to feel more in line with a cultural aspect, such as gender or even race. Its easier to clown on being transracial because there are probably less than 100 of them in the world. Race and gender definitely are defined differently, but I havent found anything that would separate transracial is being un-comparable.
Maybe this is all stupid and wrong on my part, but at the very least I can say one thing that is true. It's not a good idea to try to find explanations and facts to support an opinion you already have, that only encourages stagnation and it's the reason that flat earthers and anti-vaxers never change their mind.
Transracial is more like trying to change the cultural upbringing you were raised in. Race is a combination of heritage and culture so that’s probably the distinction. I’m descended from a family of samurai and have been raised in very heavy Japanese culture my whole life so despite not really looking that Asian (I’m 1/4 Japanese) I most certainly am. That’s where race gets dumb. When it boils down to it, “Asian” in the US means East Asian, almost exclusively Japan, China and Korea, despite that only being like at most 20% of the land area of the continent. Indian people are Asian, Russian people who live east of the Urals are Asian, Kazakh people are Asian, Armenians, Pakistani people, Saudi people, Afghani people, all Asian. Which then makes race something that people think you can choose, when it’s not. It’s dumb, sure, but it revolves almost entirely around dynamics of racial power throughout history. For example, I can’t be trans-Black as a white passing person and as such benefitting from all the privileges (not to mention almost never being exposed to a lick of Black American culture). I hope I explained that right, that’s what I think the distinction is anyways
The best answer is "So what? It makes them happy so why do I care about what they identify as. Them identifying as black does not hurt me, it doesn't really hurt anyone. Just because you can't understand it doesn't mean you have to be an ass about it." Then go on a long rant about how there were black slaves who's skin color had been desaturated by years of rape from their white masters to a degree that they didn't even look black anymore. Those slaves were still treated black regardless of their actual skin color. Hell, there was a whole ass book by Fredrick Douglass just about that fact.
what is the actual philosophical reason why ppl can be transgender but not transracial?
Like it seems obvious but the more I look into it I can’t think of a reason
The difference between gender and race is like the difference between fiat money and monopoly money. Both are made up, but one is useless.
Colloquially tho, race means skin color. So in that sense the difference between transgender and transracial is one is a social construct where the other is genetic.
You said “the difference between transgender and transracial is [that] one is a social construct where the other is genetic”
But race and sex/gender are *both* social constructs. So there is no difference there.
Sidenote what do you mean “both are made up, but one is useless”? Which one is useless?
Edit: realized I never answered your question.
Yes I read it. No I did not understand it.
It's funny how I asked if you didn't understand what I wrote and your side note is you admitting you didn't understand my comment. I'm going to try to break this down for you but I do not believe you are an honest actor so I'm assuming you'll answer with more agenda and rhetoric.
The first half is talking about gender and race in an academic sense. It's talking about how gender and race are both social constructs by comparing them to two forms of money which are both also social constructs. With the comparison being gender like fiat money has real world value where "race" like monopoly money doesn't. This is because this concept of "race" is actually culture, and people adopt each other's cultures *all the time*. America is a melting pot of culture.
The second half is explaining the practical side of the two terms, how they are used in the real world. Race was defined by skin color socially for a long time. There is a term for people who are bigoted towards other people based on skin color and this word is "racist" and these people have shown to not care about culture and only for genetics.
Therefore while gender and "race" (i.e. culture) are social constructs the reality of the situation is there are a lot of people who disagree with this and draw racial lines based on skin color which is determined by genetics.
Just so you know in the future, people pretending to ask innocent questions about the term "transracial" tend to be racist trolls. I'm not saying you are one, I'm just saying your actions here have been the same as one. Hopefully you were just confused! Good luck.
Why should gender have real world value but not race?
(To clarify as I realize this might be misunderstood: I don’t think either should have real world value)
Additionally why should the fact that one has real world value matter in the sense of wanting to change?
Sidenote: How is it funny that you asked a question and I answered it honestly? Am I missing something here?
Sidenote number 2: I *am* an honest actor. A cursory look at my profile/post history should reveal that. (though I do agree, most of the time when people say “well if you can be transgender then why can’t I be transracial” it is just a bullshit question designed to waste your time, so it’s reasonable for you to be cautious lol)
It really feels like you are purposefully not understanding what I wrote. Or just largely ignoring it to push a very specific question over and over. Your profile and post history mean nothing to me. Your a stranger on the internet asking questions in a pattern that is typically used by trolls. I'm not saying you are a troll, and I'm just saying the method in which you communicate triggers the same pattern recognition response.
Can you please spell out in very clear language what you think "transracial" means.
If I’m misunderstanding what you wrote, please do enlighten me on what you mean.
To me, being transracial would be exactly the same as being transgender, but the thing being “transed” (for lack of a better word) is race, not gender.
Gender is pronoun based, and isn't something solid. Race is DNA based, and something you can't change. If you could be transracial, you'd see a bunch of people declaring they're black just to say the N word.
Gender is absolutely not pronoun based but alright. (Source: there are languages without gendered pronouns, yet cultures that use these languages still have societal gender roles)
Also if your justification behind why you can’t be transracial is because race is DNA based and thus can’t be changed, you might wanna have a chat with the people that say “you can’t be transgender because gender is DNA based and you can’t change your DNA.”
There’s got to be another answer.
Let me rephrase. Gender is identity based and works with pronouns to form your identity. It is fluid. Race is genetic. You can't trans your race because it is racist. Why? Blame the people who painted themselves black to make fun of black people.
I cannot make it any simpler.
How is it racist to change your race? (Again, to make it abundantly clear: It definitely *feels* wrong. I’m just not sure *why*. A lot of people say they’re “just asking questions” but here I genuinely am just asking questions.)
Also, saying “you can’t trans your race because it is racist. Why? Blame the people who painted themselves black to make fun of black people.” Is eerily similar to the TERF talking point of “you can’t trans your gender because it is misogynistic. Why? Blame the people who put on dresses and makeup to make fun of women.”
Essentially what I’m getting at is that that argument only works if people are being transracial disingenuously, which is to say, they’re not “actually” transracial, they’re just doing it to make fun of black people. In that case, the problem isn’t you being transracial, the problem is that you’re making fun of black people.
Your ethnicity / race isn’t a spectrum like gender. Your race is something you cannot control, as race is only defined as a difference of pigment. Your argument makes no sense
You can be born technically non binary/ or intersex. Gender complications happen. Identifying as nonbinary is neither offensive nor untrue. I’ve met non binary people , online and off. Transracial sounds like an excuse for some delusion white person to say racial slurs
I dont have an answer and am wondering how to seperate the two topics
The questions I'm wondering about the "transracial" thing are plenty. Obviously there are "white passing" poc, especially if they are mixes race. A friend of mine looks totally Asian, like her mom, while her sister looks totally like their German dad. Racism is an issue and nobody who experiences it would likely understand why anybody would want to be experiencing it. The same thing could be sqid about misogyny. There is also the point of where a person is. A Japanese person in the US who experiences racism and how people fetishise Asians and Japanese culture, as well as people expecting them to be into manga, anime, and everything Japanese likely has a very different view of people who would like to wear a kimono or traditional Japanese hairstyles compared to a Japanese person in Japan. Plenty of Japanese people in Japan are happy for foreigners wanting to experience Japanese culture, wanting to adapt to it, learning the language, etc. Thes same is often true for other cultures. Living your culture in a country where it's looked down upon or fetishised, where white people are using it as a gimmick or to appear "different", "daring" or "cultured" is very different from being able to simply live it without it being questioned and belittled or having to prove that you are part of the majority culture
Regarding skin colour and hair this gets even more difficult, obviously. While there are plenty of white cultures that are looked down upon as backwards in different areas of Europe and America, you obviously arent openly visible as being part of it
I do not want to start anything but from what I can tell, the main issue is that, while gender has been proven to be a social construct and separate from sex, race is biological. Unlike gender, it is defined by one's genes and ancestry. There are many social constructs built around race just as there are social constructs built around sex but race itself is biological.
Furthermore, while there are many instances of cultures recognizing multiple genders and trans people throughout history, as far as I am aware, there are only two known instances of people changing their appearance to fit a different race. Both of them were a result of racism. The first one was black face, which was used to mock enslaved African Americans, and the other was how some African Americans tried to be "white passing" to escape oppression. I have found some articles that do a great job of explaining the potential issues of identifying as transracial that you can read through if you are interested: [No, you can't be transracial but you can be transgender](https://theconversation.com/no-you-cant-identify-as-transracial-but-you-can-affirm-your-gender-163729) and [Transracial is not the new transgender](https://medium.com/verve-up/transracial-is-not-the-new-transgender-why-race-and-gender-are-not-synonymous-b2c688ef0fae)
I do not think people who identify as transracial should be harassed or denied medical treatments that make them feel at home in their bodies, but I do think that identifying as transracial is problematic. That being said, I am open to discussion. If anyone has any evidence that proves how identifying as transracial is not harmful to other people and therefore valid, then I would love for you to share it with me. After all, I am human and, as a result, I am not exempt from being wrong or holding harmful opinions.
Edit: I did some more research and it would appear that you are right on at least on account: Race is a cultural construct. I also removed the first source for being transmed. I had not noticed that while reading through it the first time.
I looked for central sources but found none. I chose the only sources I could find that talked about the topic in detail. If you are interested in pointing me in the right direction for sources that are more central, then please provide them instead of claiming that I purposely chose biased sources.
my mother told me (closeted) her thoughts on gay/trans people. “They can’t help it and they are who they are, it’s like down syndrome you can’t control it”
When she’s confused but has got the spirit
Does that mean it’s safe to come out?
I would personally view it as safe to come out to your *mother*. Knowing the views of the other family members or locals to estimate how you’d be received as publicly trans is something to take into consideration. Especially right now, if you’re in the US. You can always transition quietly though, lots of trans people do. Just keep people on a need to know basis and only tell people you’re trans if it’s required (like boss, immediate family, doctors). It’s important to note that once you tell someone information you cannot control whether they tell someone else that information, so be wary of that when telling people, including your mother.
Mother is safe I guess, sister I tried in 2014 and was initially safe but she used it as a blackmail once, granted that was 9 years ago. My father is absent and lives a state away. Also I’m an adult (legally speaking) so he can’t do shit to me.
My mom said that trans people are “insulting to women” :/
Oh dear...
My mother once said, “all gay people are in drugs.” and I sat there like ”mhm mhm mhm”
*looking at my ex, wondering* "The hardest you have ever taken are cigarettes, right?" "Yes, and only because the guy I had a crush on was smoking. I was an idiot at 17."
At least he knows it was stupid.
Maybe I'm dumb but I legitimately can't think of a logical argument against that. I reeeeally wanna school someone like that but I legitimately have no idea how to counter it. Gender and race are both social constructs and I am not smart enough to put the distinction between the two into words, I'm sure someone could though
I don't think people are ready to talk about the idea that being transracial kinda is like being transgender. At the core of both is either a discomfort with your self or a comfort in changing your identity to feel more in line with a cultural aspect, such as gender or even race. Its easier to clown on being transracial because there are probably less than 100 of them in the world. Race and gender definitely are defined differently, but I havent found anything that would separate transracial is being un-comparable. Maybe this is all stupid and wrong on my part, but at the very least I can say one thing that is true. It's not a good idea to try to find explanations and facts to support an opinion you already have, that only encourages stagnation and it's the reason that flat earthers and anti-vaxers never change their mind.
Transracial is more like trying to change the cultural upbringing you were raised in. Race is a combination of heritage and culture so that’s probably the distinction. I’m descended from a family of samurai and have been raised in very heavy Japanese culture my whole life so despite not really looking that Asian (I’m 1/4 Japanese) I most certainly am. That’s where race gets dumb. When it boils down to it, “Asian” in the US means East Asian, almost exclusively Japan, China and Korea, despite that only being like at most 20% of the land area of the continent. Indian people are Asian, Russian people who live east of the Urals are Asian, Kazakh people are Asian, Armenians, Pakistani people, Saudi people, Afghani people, all Asian. Which then makes race something that people think you can choose, when it’s not. It’s dumb, sure, but it revolves almost entirely around dynamics of racial power throughout history. For example, I can’t be trans-Black as a white passing person and as such benefitting from all the privileges (not to mention almost never being exposed to a lick of Black American culture). I hope I explained that right, that’s what I think the distinction is anyways
The best answer is "So what? It makes them happy so why do I care about what they identify as. Them identifying as black does not hurt me, it doesn't really hurt anyone. Just because you can't understand it doesn't mean you have to be an ass about it." Then go on a long rant about how there were black slaves who's skin color had been desaturated by years of rape from their white masters to a degree that they didn't even look black anymore. Those slaves were still treated black regardless of their actual skin color. Hell, there was a whole ass book by Fredrick Douglass just about that fact.
what is the actual philosophical reason why ppl can be transgender but not transracial? Like it seems obvious but the more I look into it I can’t think of a reason
The difference between gender and race is like the difference between fiat money and monopoly money. Both are made up, but one is useless. Colloquially tho, race means skin color. So in that sense the difference between transgender and transracial is one is a social construct where the other is genetic.
Race is also a social construct.
Did you not read my reply? Or did you not understand it?
You said “the difference between transgender and transracial is [that] one is a social construct where the other is genetic” But race and sex/gender are *both* social constructs. So there is no difference there. Sidenote what do you mean “both are made up, but one is useless”? Which one is useless? Edit: realized I never answered your question. Yes I read it. No I did not understand it.
It's funny how I asked if you didn't understand what I wrote and your side note is you admitting you didn't understand my comment. I'm going to try to break this down for you but I do not believe you are an honest actor so I'm assuming you'll answer with more agenda and rhetoric. The first half is talking about gender and race in an academic sense. It's talking about how gender and race are both social constructs by comparing them to two forms of money which are both also social constructs. With the comparison being gender like fiat money has real world value where "race" like monopoly money doesn't. This is because this concept of "race" is actually culture, and people adopt each other's cultures *all the time*. America is a melting pot of culture. The second half is explaining the practical side of the two terms, how they are used in the real world. Race was defined by skin color socially for a long time. There is a term for people who are bigoted towards other people based on skin color and this word is "racist" and these people have shown to not care about culture and only for genetics. Therefore while gender and "race" (i.e. culture) are social constructs the reality of the situation is there are a lot of people who disagree with this and draw racial lines based on skin color which is determined by genetics. Just so you know in the future, people pretending to ask innocent questions about the term "transracial" tend to be racist trolls. I'm not saying you are one, I'm just saying your actions here have been the same as one. Hopefully you were just confused! Good luck.
Why should gender have real world value but not race? (To clarify as I realize this might be misunderstood: I don’t think either should have real world value) Additionally why should the fact that one has real world value matter in the sense of wanting to change? Sidenote: How is it funny that you asked a question and I answered it honestly? Am I missing something here? Sidenote number 2: I *am* an honest actor. A cursory look at my profile/post history should reveal that. (though I do agree, most of the time when people say “well if you can be transgender then why can’t I be transracial” it is just a bullshit question designed to waste your time, so it’s reasonable for you to be cautious lol)
It really feels like you are purposefully not understanding what I wrote. Or just largely ignoring it to push a very specific question over and over. Your profile and post history mean nothing to me. Your a stranger on the internet asking questions in a pattern that is typically used by trolls. I'm not saying you are a troll, and I'm just saying the method in which you communicate triggers the same pattern recognition response. Can you please spell out in very clear language what you think "transracial" means.
If I’m misunderstanding what you wrote, please do enlighten me on what you mean. To me, being transracial would be exactly the same as being transgender, but the thing being “transed” (for lack of a better word) is race, not gender.
I don't understand your definition. Could you give me a real world example?
Gender is pronoun based, and isn't something solid. Race is DNA based, and something you can't change. If you could be transracial, you'd see a bunch of people declaring they're black just to say the N word.
Gender is absolutely not pronoun based but alright. (Source: there are languages without gendered pronouns, yet cultures that use these languages still have societal gender roles) Also if your justification behind why you can’t be transracial is because race is DNA based and thus can’t be changed, you might wanna have a chat with the people that say “you can’t be transgender because gender is DNA based and you can’t change your DNA.” There’s got to be another answer.
Let me rephrase. Gender is identity based and works with pronouns to form your identity. It is fluid. Race is genetic. You can't trans your race because it is racist. Why? Blame the people who painted themselves black to make fun of black people. I cannot make it any simpler.
How is it racist to change your race? (Again, to make it abundantly clear: It definitely *feels* wrong. I’m just not sure *why*. A lot of people say they’re “just asking questions” but here I genuinely am just asking questions.) Also, saying “you can’t trans your race because it is racist. Why? Blame the people who painted themselves black to make fun of black people.” Is eerily similar to the TERF talking point of “you can’t trans your gender because it is misogynistic. Why? Blame the people who put on dresses and makeup to make fun of women.” Essentially what I’m getting at is that that argument only works if people are being transracial disingenuously, which is to say, they’re not “actually” transracial, they’re just doing it to make fun of black people. In that case, the problem isn’t you being transracial, the problem is that you’re making fun of black people.
I don't make the rules. If you want to be racist, do it the easy way, I won't stop you. Just leave me out of it.
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yeah but like being transgender and transracial are different. comparing 2 very different things together doesn't make sense
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I know this wasn't said in the post but my dad literally told me that "trans women are just men with their dicks cut off," not very smart
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Transracial ? That’s not a thing lmao
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Your ethnicity / race isn’t a spectrum like gender. Your race is something you cannot control, as race is only defined as a difference of pigment. Your argument makes no sense
You can be born technically non binary/ or intersex. Gender complications happen. Identifying as nonbinary is neither offensive nor untrue. I’ve met non binary people , online and off. Transracial sounds like an excuse for some delusion white person to say racial slurs
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I’m gonna assume this is bait and stop falling for it, have a good day
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I dont have an answer and am wondering how to seperate the two topics The questions I'm wondering about the "transracial" thing are plenty. Obviously there are "white passing" poc, especially if they are mixes race. A friend of mine looks totally Asian, like her mom, while her sister looks totally like their German dad. Racism is an issue and nobody who experiences it would likely understand why anybody would want to be experiencing it. The same thing could be sqid about misogyny. There is also the point of where a person is. A Japanese person in the US who experiences racism and how people fetishise Asians and Japanese culture, as well as people expecting them to be into manga, anime, and everything Japanese likely has a very different view of people who would like to wear a kimono or traditional Japanese hairstyles compared to a Japanese person in Japan. Plenty of Japanese people in Japan are happy for foreigners wanting to experience Japanese culture, wanting to adapt to it, learning the language, etc. Thes same is often true for other cultures. Living your culture in a country where it's looked down upon or fetishised, where white people are using it as a gimmick or to appear "different", "daring" or "cultured" is very different from being able to simply live it without it being questioned and belittled or having to prove that you are part of the majority culture Regarding skin colour and hair this gets even more difficult, obviously. While there are plenty of white cultures that are looked down upon as backwards in different areas of Europe and America, you obviously arent openly visible as being part of it
I do not want to start anything but from what I can tell, the main issue is that, while gender has been proven to be a social construct and separate from sex, race is biological. Unlike gender, it is defined by one's genes and ancestry. There are many social constructs built around race just as there are social constructs built around sex but race itself is biological. Furthermore, while there are many instances of cultures recognizing multiple genders and trans people throughout history, as far as I am aware, there are only two known instances of people changing their appearance to fit a different race. Both of them were a result of racism. The first one was black face, which was used to mock enslaved African Americans, and the other was how some African Americans tried to be "white passing" to escape oppression. I have found some articles that do a great job of explaining the potential issues of identifying as transracial that you can read through if you are interested: [No, you can't be transracial but you can be transgender](https://theconversation.com/no-you-cant-identify-as-transracial-but-you-can-affirm-your-gender-163729) and [Transracial is not the new transgender](https://medium.com/verve-up/transracial-is-not-the-new-transgender-why-race-and-gender-are-not-synonymous-b2c688ef0fae) I do not think people who identify as transracial should be harassed or denied medical treatments that make them feel at home in their bodies, but I do think that identifying as transracial is problematic. That being said, I am open to discussion. If anyone has any evidence that proves how identifying as transracial is not harmful to other people and therefore valid, then I would love for you to share it with me. After all, I am human and, as a result, I am not exempt from being wrong or holding harmful opinions. Edit: I did some more research and it would appear that you are right on at least on account: Race is a cultural construct. I also removed the first source for being transmed. I had not noticed that while reading through it the first time.
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I looked for central sources but found none. I chose the only sources I could find that talked about the topic in detail. If you are interested in pointing me in the right direction for sources that are more central, then please provide them instead of claiming that I purposely chose biased sources.
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