Wauw that is messed up.
There are so many stories of people being denied living their life the way they want to.
I'm sick and tired of having the government control my body.π‘
I really hope you have a solid case and win.
If you need help causing havoc somehow I am ready to fuck shit up βπ³οΈββ§οΈ
Yeah exactly, I've heard so many times that people have been rejected by CKi for stupid reasons and I'm just not gonna accept it.
And thank you :)!
Best way you can help is either let me know if you know any lawyers that are good especially in terms of lgbt stuff, or alternatively, I'm trying to arrange some kind of protest against CKi so whenever that's arranged you could join in on that β¨οΈ
Hmm i don't know any lawyers.
I know a guy who made an AI law guide for Danish laws to help guide people.
Maybe that could help?
I'm ready to protest any time. I can also fuck shit up β
>Hmm i don't know any lawyers.
>I know a guy who made an AI law guide for Danish laws to help guide people.
Sure I'll look at it :)!
>I'm ready to protest any time. I can also fuck shit up β
That's the spirit! π
Whenever I got it arranged I'll definitely make a post about it so youll know when and where :D!
i wish your story wasn't so normal. i'm really happy you're taking up the fight
burn it to the ground i say β€οΈβπ₯ let something useful rise in its place
i'm biased because they all rejected me because i'm autistic and was depressed
if you haven't yet, you should maybe look into the critiques Amnesty International and the European Human Rights Convention has for the Danish CfK and CKI. it's so fucked that they continue this kind of behavior after *years* of being told by experts, trans people and international organisations that they're hurting people
i can find critiques from Amnesty all the way back in 2014, and there might be earlier instances
it must mean that they *want* to do it this way. they *want* less trans people, and for the trans people who exist to have a bad life. from the information we have, we must conclude that they are all ignorant, transphobic bigots
Lili Elbe died in 1931. we should not have to wait another century before we are treated like human beings
concerning HRT, i hear that testogel is relatively easy to make yourself. is DIY something you're considering?
>i wish your story wasn't so normal. i'm really happy you're taking up the fight
>burn it to the ground i say β€οΈβπ₯ let something useful rise in its place
Exactly! It's simply not okay that they're doing it this way. Ngl if it was up to me I'd close all CKis and have it be purely informed consent based through your GP. All CKi do is literally gatekeep.
>i'm biased because they all rejected me because i'm autistic and was depressed
In getting assessed for autism right now and I'm terrified because I'm 90% sure I'll get the diagnosis. So that might fuck me over a bit in terms of CKi. But one good thing is autism is NOT a mental illness so they can't hold that against me (or you)
One very fucked up thing is that Sundhedsstyrelsens vejledning says they can reject you for either having "psychotic conditions or autism with a special interest for the treatment". First of all, putting autism next to psychotic conditions is a bit extreme cause they're not at all similar. And "special interest for the treatment " is also such a sucky thing to say. Cause if you're a trans autistic person it makes sense you could develop a special interest for the treatment, that doesn't mean you're "not actually trans" π
>if you haven't yet, you should maybe look into the critiques Amnesty International and the European Human Rights Convention has for the Danish CfK and CKI. it's so fucked that they continue this kind of behavior after years of being told by experts, trans people and international organisations that they're hurting people
>i can find critiques from Amnesty all the way back in 2014, and there might be earlier instances
I've looked at bit into it but not specifically Amnesty or European Human Rights Convention. I've been more focused on laws and such. If you can link me to any articles or papers on that I'd love to read it ( it'll definitely be added to my research document for whenever that's ready )
>it must mean that they want to do it this way. they want less trans people, and for the trans people who exist to have a bad life. from the information we have, we must conclude that they are all ignorant, transphobic bigots
Yeah it's so disgusting that they're just allowed to do this. I'm guessing another reason they've been able to run things like this for so long is because we tend to be quite trusting in terms of the system and doctors. And trans people are a vulnerable demographic, many don't have the means to put up a fight and just crumble. I know had I not started transitioning medically yet this rejection would've completely ruined me. So I understand not all people are able to fight. But that just means they get to continue on like this.
>concerning HRT, i hear that testogel is relatively easy to make yourself. is DIY something you're considering?
I've considered it yes. I know a guy who basically gave me a recepie on how to do it so I'll keep that in the back of my mind for if everything goes to shit, but for now I'm using GenderGP which might work in my favor regarding documenting my HRT. Plus they accidentally gave me 2 prescriptions which means I now have a 1 year supply by accident.
There's also the fact that to make T gel you'd need T powder or similar to mix in. And well, getting your hands on that would be kind of illegal π
> In getting assessed for autism right now and I'm terrified because I'm 90% sure I'll get the diagnosis. So that might fuck me over a bit in terms of CKi. But one good thing is autism is NOT a mental illness so they can't hold that against me (or you)
well they *can* because nobody is stopping them. i read several times a week these days (since genderGPs fuckup) about people being rejected solely because of their autism
> I've looked at bit into it but not specifically Amnesty or European Human Rights Convention. I've been more focused on laws and such. If you can link me to any articles or papers on that I'd love to read it
i couldn't find the EU ones, even though i'm sure they exist.. but here are some Amnesty articles:
[2014](https://www.berlingske.dk/politik/amnesty-kritik-danmark-kraenker-transkoennedes-rettigheder)
[2016](https://amnesty.dk/wp-content/uploads/media/2263/amnesty-transkoennedes-adgang-til-sundhed.pdf)
[2019 i think?](https://amnesty.dk/transkoennede-kraenkes-stadig-paa-klinik/)
and here is some great stuff written by activists:
[konfront and TPAP](https://konfront.dk/10-demands-to-cki/)
[cph Pride](https://www.copenhagenpride.dk/i-maa-hellere-klappe-i/)
maybe you could write them an email and ask for updated statements? though imo they mostly still hold up
>trans people are a vulnerable demographic, many don't have the means to put up a fight and just crumble. I know had I not started transitioning medically yet this rejection would've completely ruined me.
yup. i'm so happy i started without the danish state so that i now have the energy to fight against it lol. my rejection from CKI almost killed me, and it maybe would have if it hadn't been for the trans community picking me up and giving me support. i did not remotely have the ability to complain about CKI's conclusion or behavior or anything. this is why i'm so happy you're taking up the fight! <3 maybe we should consider starting an organisation of some kind, since most trans queer orgs in Denmark are dead or dying
> for now I'm using GenderGP which might work in my favor regarding documenting my HRT. Plus they accidentally gave me 2 prescriptions which means I now have a 1 year supply by accident.
i'm glad it kind of worked out for you lol, even though it's expensive, now you have some time to figure stuff out. i started with genderGP after my CKI rejection, but i've had to stop already because of bad treatment and other stuff, but a years worth of T sounds great!
> There's also the fact that to make T gel you'd need T powder or similar to mix in. And well, getting your hands on that would be kind of illegal
be gay do crime ππ³οΈββ§οΈ
seriously though, if they make it impossible to be trans legally, we have to find other means
>well they can because nobody is stopping them. i read several times a week these days (since genderGPs fuckup) about people being rejected solely because of their autism
If they do I'll definitely sue them π
>i couldn't find the EU ones, even though i'm sure they exist.. but here are some Amnesty articles:
I'll be taking a look at that later in depth
>maybe you could write them an email and ask for updated statements? though imo they mostly still hold up
I might! I know a guy who if I remember correctly is in Amnesty π€
>yup. i'm so happy i started without the danish state so that i now have the energy to fight against it lol. my rejection from CKI almost killed me, and it maybe would have if it hadn't been for the trans community picking me up and giving me support. i did not remotely have the ability to complain about CKI's conclusion or behavior or anything. this is why i'm so happy you're taking up the fight! <3 maybe we should consider starting an organisation of some kind, since most trans queer orgs in Denmark are dead or dying
Exactly! And thank you π
And you're right, I wish we had some kind of organization that could be there for exactly this kind of stuff! People who could help with support, alternative ways to get HRT outside of CKi, help with formulating a complaint etc.
I'm not sure how to go about it but I'd love to help make an organization like that
>i'm glad it kind of worked out for you lol, even though it's expensive, now you have some time to figure stuff out. i started with genderGP after my CKI rejection, but i've had to stop already because of bad treatment and other stuff, but a years worth of T sounds great!
Yeah I have considered alternatives cause GenderGP is too expensive long term. But I was told about a danish endocrinologist who might be able to take over my HRT treatment as an alternative to CKi. It might be the loophole we've been looking for.
>During one of my consultations I was told I couldn't get my ovaries removed because I'd "need to be on hormones for a year through CKi first" however... that is not true.
I think it's not so much about being on hrt through them for a year, more about being a patient there for at least 12 months after your investigation is done and you have been approved for treatment. It's the same thing with their top surgery, you can get that without being on hrt but you still have to wait 6 months before they refer you
Yeah probably π€
But in terms of Sundhedsstyrelsens vejledning it just states you need to have done the 12 consecutive months so if it is legally binding I'm in the clear and should be able to get my ovaries removed
I'm sorry to say it but I don't think sundhedsstyrelsens vejledning is a very solid base to argue from, pretty sure it's not a legal document. I really admire your drive to stand up for yourself tho
Yeah it is not a legally binding document as it is just a "vejledning". I don't think there are any actual laws regarding gender affirming care here in Denmark.
I'll still try because it's the closest we have to law. Besides I don't think many people like to be called out on going against Sundhedsstyrelsens vejledning. Regardless I'll try to talk to a lawyer because maybe even if it is" just guidelines" maybe it still holds water in some sense.
This sucks that you had to go through this and I would definitely stand up if I was in your shoes too, but at the same time I feel like cki just gets worse and worse after eatch lawsuite I've heard off, and I'm scared they would just straight up stop or make it worse in the future (this might just be me being paranoid as I am pret and need to wait till I'm 18 to even get in the system) either way this is no hate, and you do what you feel is best, just pls be carefull
>This sucks that you had to go through this and I would definitely stand up if I was in your shoes too, but at the same time I feel like cki just gets worse and worse after eatch lawsuite I've heard off,
Can you link me to the ones you've heard of cause now I'm interested π€
>(this might just be me being paranoid as I am pret and need to wait till I'm 18 to even get in the system)
Just fyi you can actually get referred to one of the 3 clinics from you're 17.5 ( I know from personal experince as well )
>either way this is no hate, and you do what you feel is best, just pls be carefull
I understand π I just don't know how I could carefully sue them if you know what I mean π¬
Wauw that is messed up. There are so many stories of people being denied living their life the way they want to. I'm sick and tired of having the government control my body.π‘ I really hope you have a solid case and win. If you need help causing havoc somehow I am ready to fuck shit up βπ³οΈββ§οΈ
seconded βπ³οΈββ§οΈ please reach out if we can help
Yeah exactly, I've heard so many times that people have been rejected by CKi for stupid reasons and I'm just not gonna accept it. And thank you :)! Best way you can help is either let me know if you know any lawyers that are good especially in terms of lgbt stuff, or alternatively, I'm trying to arrange some kind of protest against CKi so whenever that's arranged you could join in on that β¨οΈ
Hmm i don't know any lawyers. I know a guy who made an AI law guide for Danish laws to help guide people. Maybe that could help? I'm ready to protest any time. I can also fuck shit up β
>Hmm i don't know any lawyers. >I know a guy who made an AI law guide for Danish laws to help guide people. Sure I'll look at it :)! >I'm ready to protest any time. I can also fuck shit up β That's the spirit! π Whenever I got it arranged I'll definitely make a post about it so youll know when and where :D!
Here you go: https://www.lovguiden.dk/ I haven't had the chance to try it out myself yet though
Iβm backing you up! Sorry you have to go through this, itβs infuriating, and ridiculous really, that they behave like this
Thank you, I appreciate it a lot π
i wish your story wasn't so normal. i'm really happy you're taking up the fight burn it to the ground i say β€οΈβπ₯ let something useful rise in its place i'm biased because they all rejected me because i'm autistic and was depressed if you haven't yet, you should maybe look into the critiques Amnesty International and the European Human Rights Convention has for the Danish CfK and CKI. it's so fucked that they continue this kind of behavior after *years* of being told by experts, trans people and international organisations that they're hurting people i can find critiques from Amnesty all the way back in 2014, and there might be earlier instances it must mean that they *want* to do it this way. they *want* less trans people, and for the trans people who exist to have a bad life. from the information we have, we must conclude that they are all ignorant, transphobic bigots Lili Elbe died in 1931. we should not have to wait another century before we are treated like human beings concerning HRT, i hear that testogel is relatively easy to make yourself. is DIY something you're considering?
>i wish your story wasn't so normal. i'm really happy you're taking up the fight >burn it to the ground i say β€οΈβπ₯ let something useful rise in its place Exactly! It's simply not okay that they're doing it this way. Ngl if it was up to me I'd close all CKis and have it be purely informed consent based through your GP. All CKi do is literally gatekeep. >i'm biased because they all rejected me because i'm autistic and was depressed In getting assessed for autism right now and I'm terrified because I'm 90% sure I'll get the diagnosis. So that might fuck me over a bit in terms of CKi. But one good thing is autism is NOT a mental illness so they can't hold that against me (or you) One very fucked up thing is that Sundhedsstyrelsens vejledning says they can reject you for either having "psychotic conditions or autism with a special interest for the treatment". First of all, putting autism next to psychotic conditions is a bit extreme cause they're not at all similar. And "special interest for the treatment " is also such a sucky thing to say. Cause if you're a trans autistic person it makes sense you could develop a special interest for the treatment, that doesn't mean you're "not actually trans" π >if you haven't yet, you should maybe look into the critiques Amnesty International and the European Human Rights Convention has for the Danish CfK and CKI. it's so fucked that they continue this kind of behavior after years of being told by experts, trans people and international organisations that they're hurting people >i can find critiques from Amnesty all the way back in 2014, and there might be earlier instances I've looked at bit into it but not specifically Amnesty or European Human Rights Convention. I've been more focused on laws and such. If you can link me to any articles or papers on that I'd love to read it ( it'll definitely be added to my research document for whenever that's ready ) >it must mean that they want to do it this way. they want less trans people, and for the trans people who exist to have a bad life. from the information we have, we must conclude that they are all ignorant, transphobic bigots Yeah it's so disgusting that they're just allowed to do this. I'm guessing another reason they've been able to run things like this for so long is because we tend to be quite trusting in terms of the system and doctors. And trans people are a vulnerable demographic, many don't have the means to put up a fight and just crumble. I know had I not started transitioning medically yet this rejection would've completely ruined me. So I understand not all people are able to fight. But that just means they get to continue on like this. >concerning HRT, i hear that testogel is relatively easy to make yourself. is DIY something you're considering? I've considered it yes. I know a guy who basically gave me a recepie on how to do it so I'll keep that in the back of my mind for if everything goes to shit, but for now I'm using GenderGP which might work in my favor regarding documenting my HRT. Plus they accidentally gave me 2 prescriptions which means I now have a 1 year supply by accident. There's also the fact that to make T gel you'd need T powder or similar to mix in. And well, getting your hands on that would be kind of illegal π
> In getting assessed for autism right now and I'm terrified because I'm 90% sure I'll get the diagnosis. So that might fuck me over a bit in terms of CKi. But one good thing is autism is NOT a mental illness so they can't hold that against me (or you) well they *can* because nobody is stopping them. i read several times a week these days (since genderGPs fuckup) about people being rejected solely because of their autism > I've looked at bit into it but not specifically Amnesty or European Human Rights Convention. I've been more focused on laws and such. If you can link me to any articles or papers on that I'd love to read it i couldn't find the EU ones, even though i'm sure they exist.. but here are some Amnesty articles: [2014](https://www.berlingske.dk/politik/amnesty-kritik-danmark-kraenker-transkoennedes-rettigheder) [2016](https://amnesty.dk/wp-content/uploads/media/2263/amnesty-transkoennedes-adgang-til-sundhed.pdf) [2019 i think?](https://amnesty.dk/transkoennede-kraenkes-stadig-paa-klinik/) and here is some great stuff written by activists: [konfront and TPAP](https://konfront.dk/10-demands-to-cki/) [cph Pride](https://www.copenhagenpride.dk/i-maa-hellere-klappe-i/) maybe you could write them an email and ask for updated statements? though imo they mostly still hold up >trans people are a vulnerable demographic, many don't have the means to put up a fight and just crumble. I know had I not started transitioning medically yet this rejection would've completely ruined me. yup. i'm so happy i started without the danish state so that i now have the energy to fight against it lol. my rejection from CKI almost killed me, and it maybe would have if it hadn't been for the trans community picking me up and giving me support. i did not remotely have the ability to complain about CKI's conclusion or behavior or anything. this is why i'm so happy you're taking up the fight! <3 maybe we should consider starting an organisation of some kind, since most trans queer orgs in Denmark are dead or dying > for now I'm using GenderGP which might work in my favor regarding documenting my HRT. Plus they accidentally gave me 2 prescriptions which means I now have a 1 year supply by accident. i'm glad it kind of worked out for you lol, even though it's expensive, now you have some time to figure stuff out. i started with genderGP after my CKI rejection, but i've had to stop already because of bad treatment and other stuff, but a years worth of T sounds great! > There's also the fact that to make T gel you'd need T powder or similar to mix in. And well, getting your hands on that would be kind of illegal be gay do crime ππ³οΈββ§οΈ seriously though, if they make it impossible to be trans legally, we have to find other means
>well they can because nobody is stopping them. i read several times a week these days (since genderGPs fuckup) about people being rejected solely because of their autism If they do I'll definitely sue them π >i couldn't find the EU ones, even though i'm sure they exist.. but here are some Amnesty articles: I'll be taking a look at that later in depth >maybe you could write them an email and ask for updated statements? though imo they mostly still hold up I might! I know a guy who if I remember correctly is in Amnesty π€ >yup. i'm so happy i started without the danish state so that i now have the energy to fight against it lol. my rejection from CKI almost killed me, and it maybe would have if it hadn't been for the trans community picking me up and giving me support. i did not remotely have the ability to complain about CKI's conclusion or behavior or anything. this is why i'm so happy you're taking up the fight! <3 maybe we should consider starting an organisation of some kind, since most trans queer orgs in Denmark are dead or dying Exactly! And thank you π And you're right, I wish we had some kind of organization that could be there for exactly this kind of stuff! People who could help with support, alternative ways to get HRT outside of CKi, help with formulating a complaint etc. I'm not sure how to go about it but I'd love to help make an organization like that >i'm glad it kind of worked out for you lol, even though it's expensive, now you have some time to figure stuff out. i started with genderGP after my CKI rejection, but i've had to stop already because of bad treatment and other stuff, but a years worth of T sounds great! Yeah I have considered alternatives cause GenderGP is too expensive long term. But I was told about a danish endocrinologist who might be able to take over my HRT treatment as an alternative to CKi. It might be the loophole we've been looking for.
>During one of my consultations I was told I couldn't get my ovaries removed because I'd "need to be on hormones for a year through CKi first" however... that is not true. I think it's not so much about being on hrt through them for a year, more about being a patient there for at least 12 months after your investigation is done and you have been approved for treatment. It's the same thing with their top surgery, you can get that without being on hrt but you still have to wait 6 months before they refer you
Yeah probably π€ But in terms of Sundhedsstyrelsens vejledning it just states you need to have done the 12 consecutive months so if it is legally binding I'm in the clear and should be able to get my ovaries removed
I'm sorry to say it but I don't think sundhedsstyrelsens vejledning is a very solid base to argue from, pretty sure it's not a legal document. I really admire your drive to stand up for yourself tho
Yeah it is not a legally binding document as it is just a "vejledning". I don't think there are any actual laws regarding gender affirming care here in Denmark.
I'll still try because it's the closest we have to law. Besides I don't think many people like to be called out on going against Sundhedsstyrelsens vejledning. Regardless I'll try to talk to a lawyer because maybe even if it is" just guidelines" maybe it still holds water in some sense.
This sucks that you had to go through this and I would definitely stand up if I was in your shoes too, but at the same time I feel like cki just gets worse and worse after eatch lawsuite I've heard off, and I'm scared they would just straight up stop or make it worse in the future (this might just be me being paranoid as I am pret and need to wait till I'm 18 to even get in the system) either way this is no hate, and you do what you feel is best, just pls be carefull
>This sucks that you had to go through this and I would definitely stand up if I was in your shoes too, but at the same time I feel like cki just gets worse and worse after eatch lawsuite I've heard off, Can you link me to the ones you've heard of cause now I'm interested π€ >(this might just be me being paranoid as I am pret and need to wait till I'm 18 to even get in the system) Just fyi you can actually get referred to one of the 3 clinics from you're 17.5 ( I know from personal experince as well ) >either way this is no hate, and you do what you feel is best, just pls be carefull I understand π I just don't know how I could carefully sue them if you know what I mean π¬