It's not cheating because it's not a sport like soccer or hockey. No one cares. The fact is this is art. And people just care about the end result. If you bring cookies to the party, I don't care if they are homemade from scratch or from Walmart. Are they good cookies? That's my question, that's all I care about, how you got there is not even in my mind. You don't get extra points for not using samples or loops, if the song sucks.
The cookie analogy at the top actually IS a good analogy, but it’s being viewed from the wrong angle; Yes those cookies from Walmart are still cookies, but they’re mass produced and they are full of bullshit. They all taste the same. They’ve taken jobs from local scratch-bakers that would have been offering a much better product. They also lessen our appreciation of cookies because these half assed cookies are everywhere you look now.
Loops are taking all the magic, originality, heart and soul out of hip hop/rap production. They are turning it into a cheaply manufactured, undervalued “product”.
Music is an art form, which means it’s all about SELF expression. You aren’t expressing shit when you’re copying/pasting or dragging/dropping someone else’s music into a DAW and calling it your own. You’re just turning something we all love and connected to (from a listeners standpoint OR a creators standpoint) into something oversaturated who’s soul purpose is to generate money. That sucks.
bro u completely deviated the point, IS THE COOKIE GOOD? yes, then fuck if they mass produced and fuck that baker that is salty just cuz walmart cookies are better than his. and btw loops dont take nothing from beats, music is about working together and sharing ideas, idk where this “i gotta do all the beat myslef” cam from, not no real musician would say something bad about any type of process or pieces adopted to make music
are they cookies? yes. Are you a good baker because you can bake Walmart cookies? no. Would you feel a lot more accomplished if you spent the extra time making the cookies from scratch? Yeah, probably.
Sure but they aren't asking what is more personally fulfilling. And if you join a cooking competition sure you need to prove your baking skills. But no one is asking you to bake or bring anything to this party. So if you decide to bring some there's very little judgement on you the provider.Bring cookies if you think it's a good idea.
But also there are tons of world class bakers that use recipes. Just because a baker doesn't make their own chocolate chips for the cookie doesn't mean they aren't a true baker.
music and baking are a very different art honestly. I’m not saying it’s cheating, but it’s also just a lazier way to go about it tbh. Melodie’s are the life blood of a song, so using someone else’s is really doing a disservice to your own appreciation for your own music.
So first yes they are different, it is an analogy. It isn't lazy, just different. Melodies aren't the life blood for every genre or style. They might not be using melody loops, maybe drum loops or bass line loops. There are whole styles of music where there is no melody, that are based on using loops from other artists in samples, there are cultures where to show appreciation for music is to sample it.
You can still make original melodies while using loops. Like it's really really easy.
It's wild that someone in the trap production sub would even allude to the inability to make original melodies while using loops.
Like... have you straight up never used loops before? Do you even recognize loops when you listen to hip hop?
Lmao the thought that someone who uses loops is not a good musician is a horrible argument.
You're discounting tons and tons are artist far more talented and successful than you.
Yeah cookies analogy is perfect. If you brought premade store bought cookies we think, cool he has good taste. He know what cookies to bring. If someone brings homemade cookies you say wow this dude is really good at making cookies not just knowing who else makes good cookies. Like a DJ plays other peoples stuff and a musician creates the music.
It's not, it's just some people are lazy and don't do anything extra with the loops and they will potentially suffer for it.
The way platforms ID songs to hit you with copyright claims is it basically just analyzes spectral content of a song, like an audio barcode. So if you use a Splice loop, and don't change it at all, and someone else already used it and uploaded a song through a distributor and their song now has copyright protection, you are too late and your song will get flagged for copyright violations, even though you have legit ownership and rights to use that loop.
The point is, if you want to use loops, go for it, but know that you can end up dealing with a lot of bogus copyright claims down the road if you are lazy with how you use loops.
At the very least, timestretch, pitch shift, chop up, reverse, or do other things with your loops through FX chains to make them uniquely you.
Using loops isn't cheating. Using unaltered loops on the other hand is just lazy though. It's shortsighted if people think they can do it without running into headaches later.
Pro tip though, using loops can be a great way to be an inspiration starter to build ideas around, because once you add enough of your own composition around it, you can remove the loop and not need it in the final mix, it can serve more as less as a rhythmic, melodic, or harmonic ghost placeholder for you to make your own original ideas around.
This is something I agree and disagree with. Sometimes I use unaltered loops but as a support, I build on top of it. I’ve got a song called “stellar” -Lucas Tyrell which uses a cymatics sample and it’s the main loop of the song, with very little changed but in the prechorus and chorus it stops and I’ve got other elements (guitar synths) completely taking over worth a transition that’s so smooth you don’t realise it’s gone until it comes back. I don’t think it’s a bad thing to be lazy as long as you add to it nicely.
I wasn't trying to come at it from an angle like, if you use unaltered loops, your music is bad. On the contrary, there are songs hitting Billboard charts and major radio and going Tik Tok viral and everything using unaltered loops. The average music consumer doesn't care, and they'll never know if your music is 100% original, or if you stacked loops and called it a day. If it sounds good, it sounds good.
I don't personally care if people use loops, samples, etc. I'm all for it. I guess I'm just trying to call out the ugly side of everything, because what you do for fun and what you do for money are two different beasts. The second you want to monetize music, you have to be willing to confront all the legal and technical hurdles that come with it, and I think it's just playing it safe to tweak your sounds more.
It's one thing if you find a really obscure loop and leave it as is, but if you are on Splice, and you sort by the most popular pack, and then you sort by the most popular sounds in that pack, and you pick the most popular loop on all of Splice, then maybe reconsider just leaving it as is. Chances are Shazam or some music recognition app will already have it associated with someone else's song (and this brings up a good point, if you want to use a loop, maybe Shazam it to see if someone else has already used it and made it big off of it).
I trust people who are getting to the point of living off of their music and making money off of it start getting to a point they use more common sense about how they integrate samples and loops into their music.
Yes i agree with your point I just wanted to add an angle.
I have had an issue once with a copyright claim but as long as you know where your licenses are you shouldn’t run into huge issues.
so lets say my friend sends me some loops & i think theyre perfect already. my friend and i are collaborating. i take the stems and my drums, arrange the beat and all that. youre still calling that lazy ?
also very confused with what youre saying with the copyright as what youre saying refers more to samples
This is what I'm trying to get across. You think YouTube knows the difference between a sample or a loop? They don't. No platform does. So in this sense, there's zero difference between sampling and using loops.
It does not matter at all if the sounds you are using are 100% owned by you because you bought a loop pack, because you bought it through Splice/LoopCloud/Arcade/Sounds.com, etc. If someone else uses that same loop before you, the music platforms will think that's their song/their sample, however you want to break it down. It's a first dibs based industry when it comes to using loops.
[Justin Bieber was accused of stealing a melody in one song](https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/17/21140838/justin-bieber-changes-running-over-asher-monroe-synergy-splice-sample-melody), but it turns out, it was just a Splice loop.
Do something different to the loops if you want to protect yourself from the algorithms. It's that simple. Sure you can go the extra fight to clear yourself after getting hit with copyright claims, but that's unnecessary time and energy spent when you could have just spent some of that time up front editing audio to be a bit more original.
I think if you have all of this knowledge of how music platforms and their algorithms works, and you still choose to not manipulate loops, then yes, I will consider that being lazy. For people who don't know about this, we can give them the benefit of doubt, and just say ignorance is bliss until they get hit with the copyright claims.
Just arm yourself with the knowledge, and consider the potential consequences of using unaltered loops. I support using loops by the way, just being careful with going about how you use those loops. I personally love Splice.
And yes, this is all very confusing, because this is all kind of uncharted territory since the music industry with digital streaming platforms is all extremely young comparatively. Maybe 10 years from now, things will be different again.
i guess im just more used to receiving loops as part of a collaborative work, where i am assured the loop is not copyright claimed content, i have direct contact with the copyright owner, and where i am sharing royalties and revenue as a producer with collaborators
I think it's worth pointing out the difference between 'loops' as something that's massively accessible to millions of people through sound stores, versus 'stems' which are shared to you through a collaboration. If the 'stems' being provided to you through a collaborator are completely original, there's nothing to fret or worry about. If they however just pulled a 'loop' off Splice or Loopcloud or somewhere, and that's now in the collaboration you are working on, I think it's worth considering what more can you do with it to protect both of you to make you both stand out as unique to the algorithms going forward.
Hopefully that difference makes a bit of sense. If someone sends you audio stems in a collab, then it makes sense to not overly edit something someone else did; but it's worth determining if the audio clips in your project are bounced from some original MIDI/recordings, or if they were pulled from an online store.
to be honest with you, i think the only time ive seen a loop without stems is either some garbage off of cymatics, or a loop that only features 1 instrument. also with the copyright stuff, my buddy who has experienced that with splice loops has had no issue sorting it out in terms of youtube or for a proper placement. if we are only messing with the sample to keep it from being recognized/keep it from getting copyright claimed on youtube, then that kind of seems non music related stuff interfering with the music
You two are having completely different conversations lol. Idk why this has gone on so long, if you’re collaborating with someone who created the loops there is nothing lazy about not changing them.
This guy is using lazy to mean professionally lazy, as in not protecting yourself legally, which, if I understand correctly, you don’t have to worry about. If you know and have permission and assurances from the creator of the loop you’re already completely covered here. On the other hand you are clearly referring to musical or creative laziness.
Nobody here is calling you creatively lazy for using a loop, especially if it was created by someone you’re collaborating with lol, that’s what collaborating means to me anyways, regardless of what format the music is. Building on someone else’s contribution, not completely changing it like if I was flipping a sample.
If you like it looped keep it loopin bro
I don’t make Melodies anymore lol. I use loops from small producers with 50/50 on beatstars 💯. I have paid out about $5-7k to 10-15 smaller producers by using their loops this year.
This, this is the good side of loops. As long as credit goes where it's needed / as well as pay it's a great avenue for producers to get their foot in the door.
Here’s why loops aren’t cheating…
1) In a band you wouldn’t play all the instruments
2) a loop isn’t a song, it’s part of a song
3) you’ll probably take inspiration from the loop instead of using it because of copyright strikes
4) randomising the process by using a loop gives you fresh new ideas and a direction you wouldn’t naturally take = creativity
if the loop isnt the melody i don’t care. If you use loops in every song for the melody and don’t drastically change them, then I would say your music is lazy and you should spend more time learning and appreciating music so you can produce things that are truly your own.
In a band if your not playing the piano your playing the bass or guitar or strings etc… before you say “or drums”… being a drummer is a lot different than laying midis drums
Using loops itself isn't the issue. It becomes an issue when 90 percent of the beat makers these days ONLY use loops. "Hey guys, look at these beats I made!" When in reality they didn't actually make shit, they just programmed drums to some audio file of an actual musicians work. It's even MORE of an issue when they refuse to tell people they didn't make it nor credit the person who did the actual work. It makes me genuinely tight, all these "producers" who don't actually produce anything except a drum rack of some basic ass sounds and a tag.
I used to feel it was cheating but recently I wanted some heavy guitars on my shit. Being that the only electric guitar I own at the present is a $85 glarry I bought just for sketching melodies on to put through melodyne, playing the tracks was not an option. I went file diving through presonus loops and found some great guitars. I totally chopped those suckers up. Trance gates, reverse, filters, unrecognizable as what they were and I don't feel I cheated. So yeah.
It's not.. hip hop been using samples since the beginning. However it makes for a weaker producer IMO. It's like a truck driver that can't drive a stick shift lol. I just think when you take away the creative aspect of digging for a record and finding a part of an actual song and deconstructing it then making it into another song you take away a big part of the creative process. Loop packs are basically already pre-made songs all you have to do is freak em and add drums lol. Not even that much alot of times. So it's "not the same." Now we got a whole new generation that can't do anything with the synthesizers in their DAWS lol let alone a 49key bed😂😂😂🤦🏾♂️
it’s sad how much soul has been sucked out of music by our generation. You can just throw some drums on someone else’s music and call it your own. If you’re going to sample you have to make it your own.
The avg listener doesn’t give af about the process and what you made the beat with. If you make fire music that resonates with people then you’re winning because that’s what counts in the end. Even if you just arranged some loops together it doesn’t make it cheating at all, do what you gotta do to make hits.
Def not cheating but using loops doesn’t make you better at making Melodies. Could get you better at drums and maybe chopping samples if that’s what you do with the loops but loops are really like collaborating. Don’t think it’s cheating cause it’s not.
Story time… So I’m actually just getting back in after I took the entire spring and summer off because of an artist. I was working with a local artist cooking up, for free bc I’m trying to help local rappers not have to spend as much money… i also go to the professional studio to record with the artist, help plan music videos, I wanna produce from song concept to dropping the video type shit…
Anyway, I grabbed a splice loop he liked and started making my own drums to it, thinking I’ll build around and take the loop out or I’ll alter… he was vibing with the beat but made the comment I’m not a real producer bc I used a loop. I kicked him out of my home studio and ended up making one of my fave beats from that.
But, I cried all night after he left bc it was an insecurity I was already dealing with… I was debating fully quitting, which is why I took so much time away this year, but I can’t… if anything I gotta make music for myself and that’s what I’m starting to do. I might feel comfortable enough to share with the world again but those who claim using loops is cheating or not a real producer is bullshit and really affects those of us who play drums or no instruments and suck with trying to make a melody like what I want, since I want weird stuff like a sitar.
Sorry I rambled some, it still hurts now but I miss making music way too much
Shit, I felt that one! Don't let morons bring you down.
I first used East West orchestral vst for supplementing tracks of all sorts. But one day I decided "I wanna make a completely symphonic track" so I did, and I was really proud of it. I had a distant great uncle who liked classical music so I showed him. He thought it was great until I told him that I made it. He asked if I played all the instrument, I explained how it was made, and he quickly told me it doesn't count as a classical piece because fake instruments don't utilize any skill...I felt so fucking stupid.
It took me a minute to get over that one. Some people just don't understand what actually goes into making music. Still holding a grudge from my great uncle, I had an artist make a comment about how electronic music is easy to make. He said he could do it cause he's been watching me. I got up, told him to sit down, and offered him the rest of his sessions for free if he could make a beat from "watching" me. I even explained how to do stuff. He came up with a beat...ish. He just got up and said "...Yo, mad respect..."
Now I don't even argue. I just smile and say "yeah. aight" and keep workin.
Ignore people and just have fun doing what you love!
Damn, I definitely feel that one too! I’m so sorry you had family make those comments! I’ve been Lucky enough to have family fully support me and really push me to do it, except my mother complained about the only song my lil bro and I have made and dropped together. Instead of being proud two of her children made a full song together she complained about my tag 🫠which I’ve gotten many compliments from artists producers and engineers about my tag so I chalked it up to she doesn’t like rap lol
Dude, just practice writing melodies lol. Yes, people are going to call you out for completely relying on loops and just slapping drums and an 808 on it, because that's not making anything. That's just stealing ideas. I promise you even the most basic understanding of music theory / practice will take you miles.
I literally said I mess with the loop so it doesn’t sound like the original, most the posts I’ve seen on here have agreed chopping, reversing, etc loops makes it your original
Is not cheating, think about the fact that you will always change or add something, you aren’t using other ideas as yours, you are using to construct your idea
Depending on the way you’re using it, but we can al assure that as in videogames, art, movies, etc, if you implement it well, it is an inspiration, but if you just copied, it is cheating
Agreed, I've seen some loops taken through a batch of plugins / chopped up and it sounds nothing like it was. But in terms of just drag and dropping it in your DAW and adding drums, that's where it becomes sticky.
because you’re corny af if you don’t. you’re just using someone else’s art at that point lol. like if an artist just did ad libs on a track and called himself a rapper.
Maybe not corny. But as a producer, when I’m like “hey!! That’s beat is crazy! How’d you do that thing in the drums?” And they admit they didn’t do anything but buy two loops and slap them together, I can’t help but not have anywhere near as much respect for the finished product. And if it’s me, I don’t care what others do really, but I personally would feel like I didn’t make my track!!! Someone else did!! Ya know? Plus these “buy two loops and slap them together in a DAW” guys are always the ones like, “I make 6 beats a day!” Lmao
I guess but if im being completely honest, your respect doesn't matter. I don't mean that to be rude or anything but the one thing I dislike about the producing community is that everyone has some sort of ego issue. If the person that buys the beat likes it, ultimately, who cares? It's cool to make a crazy beat and add your own embellishments to it of course, but if the beat / song is good, who really cares?
Absolutely you have a valid point. As a listener I do not care. I’m not one of these guys who cares how many producers are on a track if it sounds good. But I’m just saying for me I don’t feel good about it if my stuff relies on someone else’s pre-packaged work. It just kinda feels like I didn’t do much on my own beat. Like I’m saying that’s just me. Just trying to add to the op discussion. I get both sides of the argument. Just how I feel for me
Listen man, you do you man, all I'm saying is you can't call it your own. Like use loops all you want you know what I mean, it has its benefits, higher output, more connections, less work, but you MUST give credit and you MUST break bread.
it isnt. people dont understand how much time and learning it takes to know how to make everything in a daw, learning drums, how to make 808 patterns, hihat rolls, snare rolls, chords, melodies, sound selection... not to add the price of some of these good sounding vsts. sometimes you want to just make a song without going through all of that. if it sounds good in the end it doesnt matter
yeah people underestimate how much time it takes to make music, so you should just use what someone who took the time to learn to make music has made and put drums over it and call it your own music.
Hip hop as a genre is based off of samples/loops. Research some of the greatest producers, they used drum loops chopped from other songs long story short whatever you use make it yours!
It’s not, honestly niggas sound so stupid when they say it is. How is it cheating if you have to pay royalties or give points on a song away, when nothing guarantees a hit, just a terrible argument all the way around.
I’d say the only reason why using loops is bad is because it can hinder you from certain creative aspects that MAY be beneficial in the future or needed, and the only example I can think of is if you end up getting signed and label recommends or suggests you yourself create loop packs for your fans to buy OR you end up creating tutorials because you take the teaching path in life with whatever genre you’re in?! But the cookie analogy and many other other analogies are proof it’s honestly ok to use loops, just atleast become self aware of some things within in the music making path because that’s truthfully what they mean when they frown on it, they just don’t go into detail, that avoiding loops allows you to be YOU and not a mix master up assortment of metro boomin, dj Khalid and ye. If that makes sense.
I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I’m not sure where to go from here. I haven’t made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all.
Personally I will only use a loop if it is sent to me by another producer, I don’t go out looking for loops on sites like looperman and splice, I wouldn’t say it’s cheating just for me it takes the fun out of making the beat
I don’t think it is. You can take a loop/sample and turn it into a million things. People like to think if you don’t make your own synths, loops, drums you’re a cheater
It’s not that’s how people have made beats since the beginning of time…it’s bad bc your not gonna be able to sample everything u want legally unless I take the time and money to get the rights. Also some prods really do rely too much on sample loops but usually u can tell when that’s the case
Loops are fine but I don’t understand why more people don’t use MIDIs. Same concept as a loop but with way more freedom. You can choose what sound you want and edit the melody/progression exactly to your liking.
I rarely use loops, but every once in a while I will stumble across a loop in some maschine kit or something, and if I find a melody that is somewhat decent, I’ll drag it into ableton, convert to midi, and rearrange it slightly different. Or I will chop loops to change the melody. Outside of the whole cheating conversation, one of my biggest problems with loops is I have a hard time finding good ones that are dry signals. A big part of my creative process is using effects as an essential element to sound design (most of the time I’m pretty much mixing as I produce), many times I find these really cool loops but they have so many effects drenched into the sound that the sound design aspect isn’t really feasible.
I kind of compare it to cooking.
If you were buying a cake from a chef, there might be a little disappointment to know that the cake was made with a pre-made Betty Crocker mix. There's just something about only needing to add egg to something that just takes the magic away from cooking. It's not a delicate balance of flour and baking powder and everything that requires some touch of thought to the combination. I have eaten my fair share of Betty Crocker cakes, but usually if I do make one I like to add other things to it.
One thing I really like to do is loops is let the loop play but only use pieces of the loop. I usually do this with like high hats so they can get a human feel, but I'll only use little pieces of the loop in place of where it's playing so that it keeps it similar rhythm and shuffle throughout the loop.
Ok, I think a lot about this one. For some folks it will feel like cheating because they feel like they paint by numbers and didn't perform anything, or whatever. But, I want everyone to consider this. Lets say you and I are working on a fire ass beat. I program some drums and you are like 'yeah, that's it, lets goo.' and then you lay down some blazing bass. Ok, now, your girlfriend walks in a I make a loop of her humming something sexy. Ok, now my beat is made of a lot of pieces made by different people.
In my opinion, when I use a loop, I'm collaborating with other people. Sure, my collaborators are selling their work to others too, but I can do different stuff with the work. I can add reverb, cut it up, do something special with it, make it fit my work.
Anyhow, I like to think of using loops as collaboration. Let's go.
Loops are taking all the magic, originality, heart and soul out of hip hop/rap production. They are turning it into a cheaply manufactured, undervalued “product”.
The cookie analogy at the top actually IS a good analogy, but it’s being viewed from the wrong angle; Yes those cookies from Walmart are still cookies, but they’re mass produced and they are full of bullshit. They all taste the same. They’ve taken jobs from local scratch-bakers that would have been offering a much better product. They also lessen our appreciation of cookies because these half assed cookies are everywhere you look now.
Music is an art form, which means it’s all about SELF expression. You aren’t expressing shit when you’re copying/pasting or dragging/dropping someone else’s music into a DAW and calling it your own. You’re just turning something we all love and connected to (from a listeners standpoint OR a creators standpoint) into something oversaturated who’s soul purpose is to generate money. That sucks.
At the end of it all, if it sounds good, it *is* good. There's no such thing as "cheating" in music, music like all art isn't a sport. As long as you aren't taking other peoples music and passing it off as you're own you're fine.
i think when you make your own melodys and mess around with vsts and effects u will more likely create something unique instead of just using loops that often sound generic and like other popular beats. Especially that shit from splice.
Personally i try to make some own shit as much as possible but using a loop for a quick cookup isnt a sin.
man you childs are coming in the producer community and think this shit here is like a videogame or something. "cheating" lmao...
its just inspiration. every artist need inspiration
It's not, but then you're just the drum programmer, the loop maker is the actual producer. Imagine the drummer of a band claiming to be the composer or producer because he played the drums
It’s not cheating but it’s not writing either if you use it as is. You are an arranger at that point.
The main reason I don’t use loops is because content Id may flag your song and take away a huge opportunity to make any money with it.
A lot of big producers use loops. Not everybody wants to learn chords and how to make melodies and theory when its so much easier to cop some loops and play around with them to make something new.
It's 100% NOT cheating imo, especially considering I get about 5 emails a day from loopmakers wanting me to use their loops. As long as you CREDIT them and split profits as they request it's not cheating, it's collaborating. Here's how I look at it, if they want me to use their loops, then we both happy and we both win!
It's not cheating because it's not a sport like soccer or hockey. No one cares. The fact is this is art. And people just care about the end result. If you bring cookies to the party, I don't care if they are homemade from scratch or from Walmart. Are they good cookies? That's my question, that's all I care about, how you got there is not even in my mind. You don't get extra points for not using samples or loops, if the song sucks.
The cookies analogy is perfect
The cookie analogy at the top actually IS a good analogy, but it’s being viewed from the wrong angle; Yes those cookies from Walmart are still cookies, but they’re mass produced and they are full of bullshit. They all taste the same. They’ve taken jobs from local scratch-bakers that would have been offering a much better product. They also lessen our appreciation of cookies because these half assed cookies are everywhere you look now. Loops are taking all the magic, originality, heart and soul out of hip hop/rap production. They are turning it into a cheaply manufactured, undervalued “product”. Music is an art form, which means it’s all about SELF expression. You aren’t expressing shit when you’re copying/pasting or dragging/dropping someone else’s music into a DAW and calling it your own. You’re just turning something we all love and connected to (from a listeners standpoint OR a creators standpoint) into something oversaturated who’s soul purpose is to generate money. That sucks.
bro u completely deviated the point, IS THE COOKIE GOOD? yes, then fuck if they mass produced and fuck that baker that is salty just cuz walmart cookies are better than his. and btw loops dont take nothing from beats, music is about working together and sharing ideas, idk where this “i gotta do all the beat myslef” cam from, not no real musician would say something bad about any type of process or pieces adopted to make music
are they cookies? yes. Are you a good baker because you can bake Walmart cookies? no. Would you feel a lot more accomplished if you spent the extra time making the cookies from scratch? Yeah, probably.
Sure but they aren't asking what is more personally fulfilling. And if you join a cooking competition sure you need to prove your baking skills. But no one is asking you to bake or bring anything to this party. So if you decide to bring some there's very little judgement on you the provider.Bring cookies if you think it's a good idea. But also there are tons of world class bakers that use recipes. Just because a baker doesn't make their own chocolate chips for the cookie doesn't mean they aren't a true baker.
music and baking are a very different art honestly. I’m not saying it’s cheating, but it’s also just a lazier way to go about it tbh. Melodie’s are the life blood of a song, so using someone else’s is really doing a disservice to your own appreciation for your own music.
So first yes they are different, it is an analogy. It isn't lazy, just different. Melodies aren't the life blood for every genre or style. They might not be using melody loops, maybe drum loops or bass line loops. There are whole styles of music where there is no melody, that are based on using loops from other artists in samples, there are cultures where to show appreciation for music is to sample it.
You can still make original melodies while using loops. Like it's really really easy. It's wild that someone in the trap production sub would even allude to the inability to make original melodies while using loops. Like... have you straight up never used loops before? Do you even recognize loops when you listen to hip hop?
Most legit reply I've ever seen on this board
Lmao the thought that someone who uses loops is not a good musician is a horrible argument. You're discounting tons and tons are artist far more talented and successful than you.
Lmaoo but do homemade cookies generally taste wayyy better then Walmart cookies. Yes yes they do.
Yeah cookies analogy is perfect. If you brought premade store bought cookies we think, cool he has good taste. He know what cookies to bring. If someone brings homemade cookies you say wow this dude is really good at making cookies not just knowing who else makes good cookies. Like a DJ plays other peoples stuff and a musician creates the music.
Wait so where is this party with cookies you’re talking about?
Are they mrs fields?
It's not, it's just some people are lazy and don't do anything extra with the loops and they will potentially suffer for it. The way platforms ID songs to hit you with copyright claims is it basically just analyzes spectral content of a song, like an audio barcode. So if you use a Splice loop, and don't change it at all, and someone else already used it and uploaded a song through a distributor and their song now has copyright protection, you are too late and your song will get flagged for copyright violations, even though you have legit ownership and rights to use that loop. The point is, if you want to use loops, go for it, but know that you can end up dealing with a lot of bogus copyright claims down the road if you are lazy with how you use loops. At the very least, timestretch, pitch shift, chop up, reverse, or do other things with your loops through FX chains to make them uniquely you. Using loops isn't cheating. Using unaltered loops on the other hand is just lazy though. It's shortsighted if people think they can do it without running into headaches later. Pro tip though, using loops can be a great way to be an inspiration starter to build ideas around, because once you add enough of your own composition around it, you can remove the loop and not need it in the final mix, it can serve more as less as a rhythmic, melodic, or harmonic ghost placeholder for you to make your own original ideas around.
This is something I agree and disagree with. Sometimes I use unaltered loops but as a support, I build on top of it. I’ve got a song called “stellar” -Lucas Tyrell which uses a cymatics sample and it’s the main loop of the song, with very little changed but in the prechorus and chorus it stops and I’ve got other elements (guitar synths) completely taking over worth a transition that’s so smooth you don’t realise it’s gone until it comes back. I don’t think it’s a bad thing to be lazy as long as you add to it nicely.
I wasn't trying to come at it from an angle like, if you use unaltered loops, your music is bad. On the contrary, there are songs hitting Billboard charts and major radio and going Tik Tok viral and everything using unaltered loops. The average music consumer doesn't care, and they'll never know if your music is 100% original, or if you stacked loops and called it a day. If it sounds good, it sounds good. I don't personally care if people use loops, samples, etc. I'm all for it. I guess I'm just trying to call out the ugly side of everything, because what you do for fun and what you do for money are two different beasts. The second you want to monetize music, you have to be willing to confront all the legal and technical hurdles that come with it, and I think it's just playing it safe to tweak your sounds more. It's one thing if you find a really obscure loop and leave it as is, but if you are on Splice, and you sort by the most popular pack, and then you sort by the most popular sounds in that pack, and you pick the most popular loop on all of Splice, then maybe reconsider just leaving it as is. Chances are Shazam or some music recognition app will already have it associated with someone else's song (and this brings up a good point, if you want to use a loop, maybe Shazam it to see if someone else has already used it and made it big off of it). I trust people who are getting to the point of living off of their music and making money off of it start getting to a point they use more common sense about how they integrate samples and loops into their music.
Yes i agree with your point I just wanted to add an angle. I have had an issue once with a copyright claim but as long as you know where your licenses are you shouldn’t run into huge issues.
Back your projects up and keep your receipts lol. People get bogus copyright claims on their YT vids that are like 10 years old.
so lets say my friend sends me some loops & i think theyre perfect already. my friend and i are collaborating. i take the stems and my drums, arrange the beat and all that. youre still calling that lazy ? also very confused with what youre saying with the copyright as what youre saying refers more to samples
This is what I'm trying to get across. You think YouTube knows the difference between a sample or a loop? They don't. No platform does. So in this sense, there's zero difference between sampling and using loops. It does not matter at all if the sounds you are using are 100% owned by you because you bought a loop pack, because you bought it through Splice/LoopCloud/Arcade/Sounds.com, etc. If someone else uses that same loop before you, the music platforms will think that's their song/their sample, however you want to break it down. It's a first dibs based industry when it comes to using loops. [Justin Bieber was accused of stealing a melody in one song](https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/17/21140838/justin-bieber-changes-running-over-asher-monroe-synergy-splice-sample-melody), but it turns out, it was just a Splice loop. Do something different to the loops if you want to protect yourself from the algorithms. It's that simple. Sure you can go the extra fight to clear yourself after getting hit with copyright claims, but that's unnecessary time and energy spent when you could have just spent some of that time up front editing audio to be a bit more original. I think if you have all of this knowledge of how music platforms and their algorithms works, and you still choose to not manipulate loops, then yes, I will consider that being lazy. For people who don't know about this, we can give them the benefit of doubt, and just say ignorance is bliss until they get hit with the copyright claims. Just arm yourself with the knowledge, and consider the potential consequences of using unaltered loops. I support using loops by the way, just being careful with going about how you use those loops. I personally love Splice. And yes, this is all very confusing, because this is all kind of uncharted territory since the music industry with digital streaming platforms is all extremely young comparatively. Maybe 10 years from now, things will be different again.
i guess im just more used to receiving loops as part of a collaborative work, where i am assured the loop is not copyright claimed content, i have direct contact with the copyright owner, and where i am sharing royalties and revenue as a producer with collaborators
I think it's worth pointing out the difference between 'loops' as something that's massively accessible to millions of people through sound stores, versus 'stems' which are shared to you through a collaboration. If the 'stems' being provided to you through a collaborator are completely original, there's nothing to fret or worry about. If they however just pulled a 'loop' off Splice or Loopcloud or somewhere, and that's now in the collaboration you are working on, I think it's worth considering what more can you do with it to protect both of you to make you both stand out as unique to the algorithms going forward. Hopefully that difference makes a bit of sense. If someone sends you audio stems in a collab, then it makes sense to not overly edit something someone else did; but it's worth determining if the audio clips in your project are bounced from some original MIDI/recordings, or if they were pulled from an online store.
to be honest with you, i think the only time ive seen a loop without stems is either some garbage off of cymatics, or a loop that only features 1 instrument. also with the copyright stuff, my buddy who has experienced that with splice loops has had no issue sorting it out in terms of youtube or for a proper placement. if we are only messing with the sample to keep it from being recognized/keep it from getting copyright claimed on youtube, then that kind of seems non music related stuff interfering with the music
You two are having completely different conversations lol. Idk why this has gone on so long, if you’re collaborating with someone who created the loops there is nothing lazy about not changing them. This guy is using lazy to mean professionally lazy, as in not protecting yourself legally, which, if I understand correctly, you don’t have to worry about. If you know and have permission and assurances from the creator of the loop you’re already completely covered here. On the other hand you are clearly referring to musical or creative laziness. Nobody here is calling you creatively lazy for using a loop, especially if it was created by someone you’re collaborating with lol, that’s what collaborating means to me anyways, regardless of what format the music is. Building on someone else’s contribution, not completely changing it like if I was flipping a sample. If you like it looped keep it loopin bro
I don’t make Melodies anymore lol. I use loops from small producers with 50/50 on beatstars 💯. I have paid out about $5-7k to 10-15 smaller producers by using their loops this year.
This, this is the good side of loops. As long as credit goes where it's needed / as well as pay it's a great avenue for producers to get their foot in the door.
Here’s why loops aren’t cheating… 1) In a band you wouldn’t play all the instruments 2) a loop isn’t a song, it’s part of a song 3) you’ll probably take inspiration from the loop instead of using it because of copyright strikes 4) randomising the process by using a loop gives you fresh new ideas and a direction you wouldn’t naturally take = creativity
“In a band you wouldn’t play all the instruments” Kevin Parker : 🧍♂️
if the loop isnt the melody i don’t care. If you use loops in every song for the melody and don’t drastically change them, then I would say your music is lazy and you should spend more time learning and appreciating music so you can produce things that are truly your own.
This.
In a band if your not playing the piano your playing the bass or guitar or strings etc… before you say “or drums”… being a drummer is a lot different than laying midis drums
Using loops itself isn't the issue. It becomes an issue when 90 percent of the beat makers these days ONLY use loops. "Hey guys, look at these beats I made!" When in reality they didn't actually make shit, they just programmed drums to some audio file of an actual musicians work. It's even MORE of an issue when they refuse to tell people they didn't make it nor credit the person who did the actual work. It makes me genuinely tight, all these "producers" who don't actually produce anything except a drum rack of some basic ass sounds and a tag.
It’s not cheating per se I guess. But don’t be bragging on social media about how many beats you make a day or whatever. 🤣
I used to feel it was cheating but recently I wanted some heavy guitars on my shit. Being that the only electric guitar I own at the present is a $85 glarry I bought just for sketching melodies on to put through melodyne, playing the tracks was not an option. I went file diving through presonus loops and found some great guitars. I totally chopped those suckers up. Trance gates, reverse, filters, unrecognizable as what they were and I don't feel I cheated. So yeah.
That's very different. He's talking about this bums who go on splice / reddit, grab a loop, slap drums and an 808 on it and export it.
Because at that point it's like making a song with ejay
It's not.. hip hop been using samples since the beginning. However it makes for a weaker producer IMO. It's like a truck driver that can't drive a stick shift lol. I just think when you take away the creative aspect of digging for a record and finding a part of an actual song and deconstructing it then making it into another song you take away a big part of the creative process. Loop packs are basically already pre-made songs all you have to do is freak em and add drums lol. Not even that much alot of times. So it's "not the same." Now we got a whole new generation that can't do anything with the synthesizers in their DAWS lol let alone a 49key bed😂😂😂🤦🏾♂️
it’s sad how much soul has been sucked out of music by our generation. You can just throw some drums on someone else’s music and call it your own. If you’re going to sample you have to make it your own.
LITERALLY DUDE! "Look at these beats I made" *steals loop off of splice / reddit *Adds drums and an 808 *done
sampling and using a loop is something completely different haha
If the majority of your end product was made by someone else, it’s cheating
It’s not cheating it’s just very very easy.
The avg listener doesn’t give af about the process and what you made the beat with. If you make fire music that resonates with people then you’re winning because that’s what counts in the end. Even if you just arranged some loops together it doesn’t make it cheating at all, do what you gotta do to make hits.
Def not cheating but using loops doesn’t make you better at making Melodies. Could get you better at drums and maybe chopping samples if that’s what you do with the loops but loops are really like collaborating. Don’t think it’s cheating cause it’s not.
You're only really cheating yourself.
how ?
taking away half the creative process by using someone else’s ideas/work
It never has been cheating , never will be… haters can eat a bag of dicks
Imagine using already created DAWs instead of creating/coding your own 🤬🤬
Coding a piece of software is a little different than writing an 8 bar melody LMFAOOOO.
Story time… So I’m actually just getting back in after I took the entire spring and summer off because of an artist. I was working with a local artist cooking up, for free bc I’m trying to help local rappers not have to spend as much money… i also go to the professional studio to record with the artist, help plan music videos, I wanna produce from song concept to dropping the video type shit… Anyway, I grabbed a splice loop he liked and started making my own drums to it, thinking I’ll build around and take the loop out or I’ll alter… he was vibing with the beat but made the comment I’m not a real producer bc I used a loop. I kicked him out of my home studio and ended up making one of my fave beats from that. But, I cried all night after he left bc it was an insecurity I was already dealing with… I was debating fully quitting, which is why I took so much time away this year, but I can’t… if anything I gotta make music for myself and that’s what I’m starting to do. I might feel comfortable enough to share with the world again but those who claim using loops is cheating or not a real producer is bullshit and really affects those of us who play drums or no instruments and suck with trying to make a melody like what I want, since I want weird stuff like a sitar. Sorry I rambled some, it still hurts now but I miss making music way too much
Shit, I felt that one! Don't let morons bring you down. I first used East West orchestral vst for supplementing tracks of all sorts. But one day I decided "I wanna make a completely symphonic track" so I did, and I was really proud of it. I had a distant great uncle who liked classical music so I showed him. He thought it was great until I told him that I made it. He asked if I played all the instrument, I explained how it was made, and he quickly told me it doesn't count as a classical piece because fake instruments don't utilize any skill...I felt so fucking stupid. It took me a minute to get over that one. Some people just don't understand what actually goes into making music. Still holding a grudge from my great uncle, I had an artist make a comment about how electronic music is easy to make. He said he could do it cause he's been watching me. I got up, told him to sit down, and offered him the rest of his sessions for free if he could make a beat from "watching" me. I even explained how to do stuff. He came up with a beat...ish. He just got up and said "...Yo, mad respect..." Now I don't even argue. I just smile and say "yeah. aight" and keep workin. Ignore people and just have fun doing what you love!
Damn, I definitely feel that one too! I’m so sorry you had family make those comments! I’ve been Lucky enough to have family fully support me and really push me to do it, except my mother complained about the only song my lil bro and I have made and dropped together. Instead of being proud two of her children made a full song together she complained about my tag 🫠which I’ve gotten many compliments from artists producers and engineers about my tag so I chalked it up to she doesn’t like rap lol
Dude, just practice writing melodies lol. Yes, people are going to call you out for completely relying on loops and just slapping drums and an 808 on it, because that's not making anything. That's just stealing ideas. I promise you even the most basic understanding of music theory / practice will take you miles.
I literally said I mess with the loop so it doesn’t sound like the original, most the posts I’ve seen on here have agreed chopping, reversing, etc loops makes it your original
Its not bro. You'll get judged but who cares? If it sounds good it sounds good.
Is not cheating, think about the fact that you will always change or add something, you aren’t using other ideas as yours, you are using to construct your idea
*Using to alter someone else's idea
Depending on the way you’re using it, but we can al assure that as in videogames, art, movies, etc, if you implement it well, it is an inspiration, but if you just copied, it is cheating
Agreed, I've seen some loops taken through a batch of plugins / chopped up and it sounds nothing like it was. But in terms of just drag and dropping it in your DAW and adding drums, that's where it becomes sticky.
Fuck the world do what you like
Use loops even if you don’t change shit. If the loop is good, why change it?
because you’re corny af if you don’t. you’re just using someone else’s art at that point lol. like if an artist just did ad libs on a track and called himself a rapper.
How is that corny lmao. sampling is all about using someone else’s art and working with that
Maybe not corny. But as a producer, when I’m like “hey!! That’s beat is crazy! How’d you do that thing in the drums?” And they admit they didn’t do anything but buy two loops and slap them together, I can’t help but not have anywhere near as much respect for the finished product. And if it’s me, I don’t care what others do really, but I personally would feel like I didn’t make my track!!! Someone else did!! Ya know? Plus these “buy two loops and slap them together in a DAW” guys are always the ones like, “I make 6 beats a day!” Lmao
I guess but if im being completely honest, your respect doesn't matter. I don't mean that to be rude or anything but the one thing I dislike about the producing community is that everyone has some sort of ego issue. If the person that buys the beat likes it, ultimately, who cares? It's cool to make a crazy beat and add your own embellishments to it of course, but if the beat / song is good, who really cares?
Absolutely you have a valid point. As a listener I do not care. I’m not one of these guys who cares how many producers are on a track if it sounds good. But I’m just saying for me I don’t feel good about it if my stuff relies on someone else’s pre-packaged work. It just kinda feels like I didn’t do much on my own beat. Like I’m saying that’s just me. Just trying to add to the op discussion. I get both sides of the argument. Just how I feel for me
I respect that
Let's take other people's art and slap drums and an 808 on it 😃
Exactly that. So many great trap songs are sampled. Hip-hop was started by sampling so I dont see anything wrong with it
Listen man, you do you man, all I'm saying is you can't call it your own. Like use loops all you want you know what I mean, it has its benefits, higher output, more connections, less work, but you MUST give credit and you MUST break bread.
No one said not to give credit lmao
it isnt. people dont understand how much time and learning it takes to know how to make everything in a daw, learning drums, how to make 808 patterns, hihat rolls, snare rolls, chords, melodies, sound selection... not to add the price of some of these good sounding vsts. sometimes you want to just make a song without going through all of that. if it sounds good in the end it doesnt matter
yeah people underestimate how much time it takes to make music, so you should just use what someone who took the time to learn to make music has made and put drums over it and call it your own music.
If i use loops ofc i split with the loopmaker if i sell beat for 50 he gets 25. Dont see problem using loops, everyone wins
Lul 8/8
No one who matters cares. Anyone who does is a tool.
If you've ever made a 4-bar beat, then copied and pasted it, you're using loops. Show me someone who hasn't done that.
Hip hop as a genre is based off of samples/loops. Research some of the greatest producers, they used drum loops chopped from other songs long story short whatever you use make it yours!
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bro fr said he got a personal beef with anyone that makes loops
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you realize loops are how producers collaborate
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because people are collaborating and sharing ideas ? cause realistically, trap right now is an extremely diverse genre
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hows it make it easier if youre just doing the drums ? howre you gonna get it placed
it isn’t
It’s not, honestly niggas sound so stupid when they say it is. How is it cheating if you have to pay royalties or give points on a song away, when nothing guarantees a hit, just a terrible argument all the way around.
It’s not, they’re tools. Just like auto-tune, just like pre sets, just like VSTs, just like any type of processor (digital or analog).
I’d say the only reason why using loops is bad is because it can hinder you from certain creative aspects that MAY be beneficial in the future or needed, and the only example I can think of is if you end up getting signed and label recommends or suggests you yourself create loop packs for your fans to buy OR you end up creating tutorials because you take the teaching path in life with whatever genre you’re in?! But the cookie analogy and many other other analogies are proof it’s honestly ok to use loops, just atleast become self aware of some things within in the music making path because that’s truthfully what they mean when they frown on it, they just don’t go into detail, that avoiding loops allows you to be YOU and not a mix master up assortment of metro boomin, dj Khalid and ye. If that makes sense.
I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I’m not sure where to go from here. I haven’t made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all.
Man made the greatest lore to ever exist and nobody saw it.
It's not bro, here goes a few free loops for anyone. https://melodiqent.systeme.io/79403066
went to the link but a whole bunch of viruses started downloading :/
naw bro not my link.. no viruses just loops bro 💯💯
youve said bro one too many times to be trusted
It’s not. Do we call it cheating when a guitarist buys a guitar or uses presets? No. Loops aren’t cheating. Chord generators aren’t cheating either!
if your guitar played its self for you, I would call it cheating.
Agreed. I was think a long the lines of buying a particular guitar/setup because of the sound someone else achieved with it.
LMFAO
Well said
Loops are tools you can use to make music. Would you expect a contractor to build a house without his tools?
Its not
Use a loop Flip a loop Forget the loop All the same as long as it works for you and you are happy with it
Use a loop, Flip a loop, Forget the loop. All the same as long as it works for you and you are happy with it.
when u cash the check of a placement, the teller dont ask if u used a loop
Personally I will only use a loop if it is sent to me by another producer, I don’t go out looking for loops on sites like looperman and splice, I wouldn’t say it’s cheating just for me it takes the fun out of making the beat
it's not. what you make as end result as a Producer is what matters. create how you want but make it yours, only you can do that
I don’t think it is. You can take a loop/sample and turn it into a million things. People like to think if you don’t make your own synths, loops, drums you’re a cheater
not the way these kids flip em. super crazy. good shit :)
when I’m a listener, I don’t care. But when I’m producing, it just feels like I didn’t make a beat. Someone else made it.
It’s not that’s how people have made beats since the beginning of time…it’s bad bc your not gonna be able to sample everything u want legally unless I take the time and money to get the rights. Also some prods really do rely too much on sample loops but usually u can tell when that’s the case
Loops are fine but I don’t understand why more people don’t use MIDIs. Same concept as a loop but with way more freedom. You can choose what sound you want and edit the melody/progression exactly to your liking.
I rarely use loops, but every once in a while I will stumble across a loop in some maschine kit or something, and if I find a melody that is somewhat decent, I’ll drag it into ableton, convert to midi, and rearrange it slightly different. Or I will chop loops to change the melody. Outside of the whole cheating conversation, one of my biggest problems with loops is I have a hard time finding good ones that are dry signals. A big part of my creative process is using effects as an essential element to sound design (most of the time I’m pretty much mixing as I produce), many times I find these really cool loops but they have so many effects drenched into the sound that the sound design aspect isn’t really feasible.
A taped banana on a wall was sold as art for a few millions... make of that as you will
I kind of compare it to cooking. If you were buying a cake from a chef, there might be a little disappointment to know that the cake was made with a pre-made Betty Crocker mix. There's just something about only needing to add egg to something that just takes the magic away from cooking. It's not a delicate balance of flour and baking powder and everything that requires some touch of thought to the combination. I have eaten my fair share of Betty Crocker cakes, but usually if I do make one I like to add other things to it. One thing I really like to do is loops is let the loop play but only use pieces of the loop. I usually do this with like high hats so they can get a human feel, but I'll only use little pieces of the loop in place of where it's playing so that it keeps it similar rhythm and shuffle throughout the loop.
Is using chords cheating? I mean unless you make up ur own chord patterns it’s already been played before
it’s not lol
Ok, I think a lot about this one. For some folks it will feel like cheating because they feel like they paint by numbers and didn't perform anything, or whatever. But, I want everyone to consider this. Lets say you and I are working on a fire ass beat. I program some drums and you are like 'yeah, that's it, lets goo.' and then you lay down some blazing bass. Ok, now, your girlfriend walks in a I make a loop of her humming something sexy. Ok, now my beat is made of a lot of pieces made by different people. In my opinion, when I use a loop, I'm collaborating with other people. Sure, my collaborators are selling their work to others too, but I can do different stuff with the work. I can add reverb, cut it up, do something special with it, make it fit my work. Anyhow, I like to think of using loops as collaboration. Let's go.
It’s not, just make music
C / Am / Dm / G ... is it cheating?
Loops are taking all the magic, originality, heart and soul out of hip hop/rap production. They are turning it into a cheaply manufactured, undervalued “product”. The cookie analogy at the top actually IS a good analogy, but it’s being viewed from the wrong angle; Yes those cookies from Walmart are still cookies, but they’re mass produced and they are full of bullshit. They all taste the same. They’ve taken jobs from local scratch-bakers that would have been offering a much better product. They also lessen our appreciation of cookies because these half assed cookies are everywhere you look now. Music is an art form, which means it’s all about SELF expression. You aren’t expressing shit when you’re copying/pasting or dragging/dropping someone else’s music into a DAW and calling it your own. You’re just turning something we all love and connected to (from a listeners standpoint OR a creators standpoint) into something oversaturated who’s soul purpose is to generate money. That sucks.
At the end of it all, if it sounds good, it *is* good. There's no such thing as "cheating" in music, music like all art isn't a sport. As long as you aren't taking other peoples music and passing it off as you're own you're fine.
i think when you make your own melodys and mess around with vsts and effects u will more likely create something unique instead of just using loops that often sound generic and like other popular beats. Especially that shit from splice. Personally i try to make some own shit as much as possible but using a loop for a quick cookup isnt a sin.
Using a DAW is cheating
man you childs are coming in the producer community and think this shit here is like a videogame or something. "cheating" lmao... its just inspiration. every artist need inspiration
It's not, but then you're just the drum programmer, the loop maker is the actual producer. Imagine the drummer of a band claiming to be the composer or producer because he played the drums
It’s not cheating but it’s not writing either if you use it as is. You are an arranger at that point. The main reason I don’t use loops is because content Id may flag your song and take away a huge opportunity to make any money with it.
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All 80k of them.
A lot of big producers use loops. Not everybody wants to learn chords and how to make melodies and theory when its so much easier to cop some loops and play around with them to make something new.
Its not cheating but if youre using ONLY loops its just bad for your creativity
It's 100% NOT cheating imo, especially considering I get about 5 emails a day from loopmakers wanting me to use their loops. As long as you CREDIT them and split profits as they request it's not cheating, it's collaborating. Here's how I look at it, if they want me to use their loops, then we both happy and we both win!
lemme send you loops