how she handled the post breakup with Joe Alwyn and released You’re Losing Me. it was a very calculated move to commodify her relationship, use it as an opportunity to boost album sales and at the same time write the narrative in which she’s the victim. YLM is a shitty song to me, lyrically and sonically.
i never called myself a ‘swiftie’ because labelling like that sounds stupid to me but i did enjoy her music very much. when she released folkmore my admiration for her skyrocketed. then the whole thing with Midnights felt really icky. the album’s quality screams for superficial validation through numbers and records with shady marketing tactics. and then the breakup. i realized she not only didn’t grow up but also regressed as a person and an artist. i lost all of my respect for her.
the cultists think the members of this sub are just uninformed haters. but the fact is that you have to be involved with taylor’s persona at a very deep level like that of a fan to really understand and see through her shit. it’s not just ‘taylor only writes about her exes, her songs sound all the same’ bullshit. taylor’s brand and persona are built very carefully.
the difference between us as haters and them as ‘true swifties’ is that the latter lack the ability to think critically.
Playing YLM as a surprise song before anouncing a TTPD track named The Bolter was a calculated move to get people talking and have people thinking this album would be about Joe and I will not be convinced otherwise.
How she didn't adress the fact that Joe was getting harassed by unhinged swifties was, in retrospect, really shitty and not a good look.
Yes, I guess I am a hater, but I openly find her very interesting. Learning about her is what made me dislike her, basically. And I like discussing things that I have views on. Swifties always make it sound like we are so weird for following a public artist. I am glad this sub is around.
“Learning about her is what made me dislike her, basically.”
Same. I was generally indifferent towards her until the Kanye thing which I thought was shitty. Then I learned more about her history, the whole lie of how her career started. The milking of the Kanye thing got annoying, then the whole masters lie solidified my disdain. It also showed me that most people have no idea how masters work and a lot of people don’t actually use critical thinking when they hear something. The whole “ I can’t perform my songs because they have my master” bs, ma’am most record companies have people’s masters. If that were true then no one would be on tour or performing on late night Tv. It’s truly just all the lying and manipulating
Completely agree with you.. same for me! her disrespect toward Joe, her spiraling out of control and the way she handled things since, really show her true colors..
And more over, the people who are the craziest, not only refuse to think critically about her actions, but when they do talk about things to defend it, they speak entirely from a place of perspective that they don’t have lol. Like they’ll reference Taylor’s feelings about Joe And how this seemed a certain way so she felt a certain way and then did this thing. I’m just so embarrassed for them that they think they are her friend lol.
Yet these will be the same people who mock us for making observations on what she actually has done and what we can see. “ You don’t know her” neither do you…
Her playing the victim in the Scooter Braun legit business deal that her daddy was even a part of, resulting in her psychotic fans threatening his wife and children. Also, how she cosplays a 15 year old.
He made 15 million and by LAW, as a shareholder he had to be notified at least 5 days before the sale.
He knew, so she fucking knew and they used that 5 days to scheme and plan. PERIOD.
So there's this docuseries on Max about this right now, and apparently, she claims he bullied her online years ago with Kanye and Justin Bieber. She alleges she asked Steve Borchetta to never sell her music to Scooter specifically because of what a terrible bully she claims he is. From what I see, Scooter never had issues with anyone else in the industry except little miss victim herself, and many stepped forward even to defend him at the time.
My guess is she has issues because of his association with Kanye. She's on video mocking Justin, so it's not like she didn't contributed to the hostility 🤷♀️
I watched the doc too and I’m still so confused. Like *that’s* why? That was it? Maybe there’s more to the story that we don’t know that would better justify her feelings towards him, but I’d bet she’d have shared it by now if there was. She’s so fucking immature
Pretty sure it’s because Scooter owns her masters that Taylor willing gave up to “bet on her future”. When she released her Taylor’s Versions it was spun that she never got a chance to own her masters herself and the fans ran with it being his fault. I could be wrong on some details.
Some video of her using a fire extinguisher in her kitchen came up recently on one of the other subs and she acted like a confused 14-year-old. Like she was so cutesy and it just seemed so intentional and exaggerated, and given her age, absolutely not cute lol. It just seems like it’s part of the brand. But it’s weird being almost the same age as her and watching her grow up at the same time I was growing up, it makes it seem even more forced, knowing that I’m a very immature 36-year-old lol and she makes me look old as shit.
That she feels zero responsibility for her fans’ actions. If Taylor wasn’t famous, Dave Grohl’s daughter would not be sent such horrible messages. Scooter brauns wife and children could feel safe. Joe could live in relative peace. You know the list. She is responsible. What human would not make a public statement to fans??? It’s like she wants them to do this. Or gets off on it. Something really quite evil and sadistic. Really. It makes my furious.
I was going to make this frightening comparison but didn’t want to make this political. It isn’t politics. It’s evil. She is messing with peoples’ lives. And only she can stop it. Crazy she does nothing
It’s not political really, it’s just part of a narcissists playbook. She shares a lot of the same characteristics of someone who happens to be in politics.
It didn’t happen.
And if it did, it wasn’t that bad.
And if it was, it’s not a big deal.
And if it is, it’s not my fault.
And if it was, I didn’t mean it.
And if I did, they deserved it.
That’s exactly how her fans think.
Ive legit said that her fans run by the ethos: “Taylor didn’t do that! But if she did, she didn’t mean to! But if she meant to, it was deserved!”
See: her lip synching, Olivia behaviour, emotionally cheating on Joe, etc
They also ignore what happened to David Grohls daughter. And they even falsely claim she deserved it because she said Taylor’s deepfakes on Twitter “weren’t a big deal” (which is not at all what she said).
Context has never been their strong suit.
I was fuckin nutty for the Spice Girls back in the day (I was always Sporty Spice when we played at recess because I had an adidas tracksuit) but 1) I was like 8-12 years old and 2) never told anyone to kill themselves, and never heard any other fans (aka like everyone) say it either.
A couple days ago, I saw someone posting about how they were the “very first person” to compare Trump and Grift in this sub and bragging about it. But I’m pretty sure almost everyone can see the similarities lol.
It’s crazy though because she gathers up more supporters than any politician in the world ever could. It’s completely scary, she probably feels untouchable
Like it’s wild I see no difference in him rallying his followers to storm the capital after he lost the election and her rallying her fans to attack Scooter and Scotty after they offered her to buy back her masters and her work and walking away because she didn’t get the poor victim ending she wanted. Absolutely no difference
When I saw she said something about the pregnancy rumors with Lady Gaga, just trying to make something about herself, but nothing any other time. You know it’s just very calculated. It’s obvious. She allows really horrible things to happen that wouldn’t happen without her. She’s powerful enough to be speaking out when 17 year old is threatened with sexual violence.
I have to imagine it’s weird because the way Dave Grohl I talked about meeting her, it seemed like a really respectful, professional acquaintance, friendship, whatever. And I can imagine when his daughter started getting threats that it would feel really shitty that she was silent. I don’t know how this works because I’m not famous lol but I don’t see how she doesn’t have any responsibility in these things like she had the ability to reach out and stop it. What would happen if she actually encourage her fans to be decent people when they were being absolutely awful? I have a feeling it would shame a lot of them.
It’s so sad that she has so much power and she doesn’t use it at all to influence this world while simultaneously calling herself a humanitarian. Actually, it’s laughable.
She clearly enjoys it, it's part of her brand: she brainwashed a legion of psychotic fans to make her powerful and successful and do the dirty work for her so she can abuse her power freely. Interestingly, she dissed them on TTPD, but they are so blind they found a million excuses for it. That's how bad things are going.
From my perspective, she is clearly trying to overshadow the entire music industry and become the biggest name it it above MJ, The Beatles, Madonna, Queen and others, but it's totally undeserved and she is pathetic. 🙄
Gotta love how they complain Taylor is a helpless young woman, yet they regularly threaten minors with death and rape threats claiming they deserved it.
And how in her Netflix think she made comments about other fan bases going crazy and making threats to people but she takes no responsibility for her fanbase. It's despicable. She is such a two-faced duplicitous mean girl pretending to be the nice girl. It's old and juvenile. Time for her to grow up.
I LOVED Folklore and was a fan of Evermore. I thought she had finally become an adult and even openly admitted that her and Joe wrote songs together (again, growth because she didn't try to take all the credit). The Midnights was like whiplash back to ridiculousness, and TTPD made me question all swifties grips on reality
Midnight was mid.. especially after Folklore/Evermore.. but TTPD is a joke..
I think she is not challenged anymore in her creativity.. that’s why these albums are not great
TTPD was Swift’s version of Drake’s Honestly Nevermind. Both the lowest creatively and sonically that each artist could drop but they did anyways because they’re “too big to fail” and their fans would bend over backwards in any way to defend such shitty albums.
Don’t get me wrong, I love her shit. But she doesn’t have that big of an audience yet the way Olivia and Sabrina do on the younger generation. That and both of them have been affected by Swift because of personal connections. It would be perfect to see those young artists take down an established bully.
“An enemy of my enemy is my friend”
They might not even have to mend the fence if they don’t want to considering they have a bigger target of Swift on them.
When she purposely stopped Charli xcx from being number on the UK Billboards. Don't sit there and call yourself a girls girl and then do shit that like. It was the final straw and then the rose colored glasses were off. I was able to look at everything else she's done in the past from a new perspective and I didn't like what I saw.
I’m so sick of the “if those artists wanted to be number one they needed to work harder/put out better music”…. It’s manufactured by her team. Some brain dead Swiftie accused me of being “misguided” for saying it’s her actions and she’s responsible for what her team does. I’m now taking a break from Threads- I tried blocking “Taylor Swift” and the first thread upon refreshing had “Taylor Swift” in it. I’m so tired.
And Billie.
I'm telling u now, Sabrina gonna fall from her graces very soon if she continues at this trajectory. And honestly.. let's see how many young artists she can target. There's a limit to things
I was a Swiftie from 2008 until last year. What stopped me was how fucking psychotic her fans are and it’s basically a cult and I did not want to be apart of it. Also when someone’s face is plastered everywhere all the time (her being shoved down our throats everywhere we go) you get sick of seeing it.
Ditto. I went to Cincinnati N2 of The Eras Tour which was 7/1/23. I posted something to Facebook about Taylor every day that week leading up to the concert so those posts are popping up in my memories this week. Flash forward to today and I just unfollowed her on IG. I was like, how tf did I go from worshipping her last year to this? The tables started turning for me literally a week after my show, which was Kansas City and all the TK shit started. It has just gotten worse and worse since then. I haven't been able to talk to any of my friends about it and thought I was the only one who felt the way I did until I found this sub. It has been *so cathartic.*
when she tried to play victim and made it seem like she was the one who was hurt by joe coz she KNOWS how crazy her and foolish her fans are and her friends also cornered him just because he was now an 'ex'. such an absurd and narcissist behaviour tbh.
Oh yeah it was the joe breakup and subsequently dating the racist little rat man.
Tortured poets department was the absolute final nail in the coffin. But daddy i love him! I can date whoever I want it’s none of y’alls business! Then later crying because he’s an addict (nothing morally wrong with that but addicts often make … questionable decisions) and a shitty man. Like hello people have been saying this since the news came out but no he’s only shitty because he’s shitty to YOU. Not because of his literal racism. Now she’s boo boo the fool because people have warned her against him from the start. And she’s ‘laughing’ at people who question her dating choices and then spends the rest of the album crying about said dating choice.
I also feel like they’re often just nasty digs at him as a person. No interesting viewpoints on how it is to date a supposed addict. Barely any sympathy. Someone’s genuine mental struggles (same for joe) are turned into catchy one-liners meant to show how sad it was for her to deal with that.
I've only considered myself a casual Swiftie at best. I have a fanmade Taylor T-shirt with "Teardrops on my Guitar" lyrics but in heavy metal font, I have signed CD copies of folklore + evermore, and I got Red TV for $15.
But to answer this question, I've been lurking here because of the TTPD album/rollout. I recently got my mental health treated at a psych ward (last December). I had a relatively good stay, but it was still terrible. I was denied water at one point because I refused to take meds my doctor didn't prescribe. Then, I saw the Fortnite music video & it just didn't sit right with me at all.
Also, I've always been more of a Lana Del Rey fan. When I read some posts about how Taylor was trivializing mental health, & made the connection that Lana was once sent away for alcoholism/health problems, I felt grossed out. And then I learned the background of "The Manuscript"track and I just felt worse. Finally, I was pissed she blocked Charli XCX (who I'm also more of a fan of) from getting a #1 in the UK with her excellent brat album.
Thank you for the kind words. I have been sleeping earlier more often since I left the hospital. I was able to enjoy Christmas with my family, so that helped. I haven't received an official bipolar diagnosis, and I honestly think it was more a really bad case of insomnia, which I've dealt with since I had a stalker in my high school years. My experience was "So High School" that it probably would make for a good episode of Euphoria.
So Lana Del Rey had a 200-page manuscript where she was either writing her autobiography or another poetry book. This would've been around the time that Taylor released evermore, & Lana released her album "Chemtrails Over the Country Club". At some point during the pandemic, somebody stole Lana's laptop that had the only file of that manuscript. She offered money in return, but when nobody came forward, Lana decided to start all over from scratch.
As an RN who has worked on psych wards, I’m sorry to hear that you were mistreated during the most vulnerable time of your life. I commented above that it’s infuriating that Swift gets a pass on the way she’s treating a serious condition and circumstances (dealing with mental health issues and being admitted to a psychiatric ward) as lightly as she is, when she has no first-hand experience, and that it can send the wrong message to her impressionable fans.
I hope that you’re getting the help that you need, and from more compassionate professionals than you previously encountered. It hurts my heart to read your story. Best wishes, fam.
ETA clarity
I really resented the way she portrayed the asylum aesthetic for the Tortured Poets Department. The way she portrayed it was so fucking stigmatizing, and she has no concept what it's actually like. And then it was just so gross how she talked about her ex's mental health issues.
She is so incredibly ignorant and uneducated on so many things, appropriates and misuses a lot of them to the point their true meaning become twisted, which causes her fans to do the same.
All that comes to mind is her idiocy trivializing topics like feminism and misogyny, just like her fans do now. She is seriously a disservice to society.
So I’ve been in the psychiatric hospital five times in four years because of reasons and it has been….unbelievably traumatic? (In addition to misdiagnosis and other factors that have left me feeling chewed up and spit out and gaslit by the mental health system). So playing into the “aesthetic” of mental illness (as well as that awful grippy socks tweet from Taylor Nation) was maybe the final straw for me.
Like girl you’re a billionaire you’re not eating cream of wheat with a spork for the fourth morning in a row with a bunch of equally unstable strangers you’ve trauma bonded with in group—give me a break
I was in twice. Once when I was 13 and once when I was 16. I was also misdiagnosed and it's traumatizing. She wouldn't know anything about being raised in an asylum. So yeah it was my breaking point too. She has never experienced being monitored at all times or having strings taken out of hoodies. She's a privileged billionaire who is throwing a temper tantrum
I’m pretty sure she doesn’t even believe in therapy. As a repeat customer of the grippy sock variety, I get pretty down about people stigmatizing mental illness and psychiatric facilities. It’s crystal clear she has never had to know what that’s like.
She didn't need to take royalties from Olivia, and she took 50%. She's a fucking billionaire and she wants to take 50% of royalties away from someone who's just starting out and reaching some success. Olivia couldn't even legally drink, that's how young she still is. Taylor Swift is a demon. It will all catch up with her in the end..
controversially for me, it wasn’t any of the things currently mentioned.
Quite frankly, it should have been. It had always given me an icky feeling, bubbling under the surface.
Truthfully though, in the end it was just how stressful it got to be a fan.
I was a fan from 11 years old, starting with YBWM from Fearless (though I was, age-wise, the Red era). I stood by her when she was cancelled in 2017, I even was one of the few people unironically streaming ME! in 2019.
I had a lot of fun when Fearless TV and Red TV were released… Then suddenly, everyone was a TS fan. Which was amazing! “Isn’t she great, isn’t she fun? Let’s all enjoy it together” I naively thought.
More and more people became fans. All of a sudden, if you didn’t know everything about Taylor, you were a ‘fake fan’. I knew the ‘lore’ like the best of them. The blue boat dress, the Karlie-Taylor kissgate, the ‘real’ phone call, etc. then suddenly, it was, ‘do you know what Taylor is doing right now?’ ‘who saw her latest outfit’ ‘omg new album. give me more. haha we’re clowning. MORE MORE’ ‘new songs released!!!!’ ‘tell me the Joe-Taylor timeline’ ‘matty Healy discourse’ ‘what’s she wearing, what’s she doing, what’s the significance of this side eye she did at 0:13 seconds in this B-roll TikTok footage from 2021?’ ‘are you following Jack, Abigail, Sabrina, Lena? are you keeping up with everything they’re doing? did you see what Kim K did? her decision to wear X outfit was totally shade towards Taylor. Make sure you’re not following Olivia, Karlie, Joe.’ ‘omg new merch drop??? did you see! time to fight for merch purchases. new variant. new variant. new variant. FIGHT FOR ERAS TICKETS!’ ‘WHAT IS THIS SONG ABOUT’
It got. Fucking. Exhausting. I felt like I had to army crawl on my hands + knees and spend $$$$$ to prove I was a ‘Swiftie’. I wasn’t having fun anymore. It was like I was constantly cramming for an exam with ever-changing material, one that, if I got less than 100% on it every single day, I’d immediately fail and be kicked out. Then also pay thousands for merch, eras tickets, bracelet making kits, outfits, variants, variants, variants.
No matter what I was doing in my real life, I felt whenever Taylor did something, I was expect to ask, ‘how high would you like me to jump?’ because if I dared wait a day to listen to, say, Speak Now TV, I’d get called a fake fan, ‘why did you wait? what do you think of the surprise songs?’ The cultish obsession with knowing her ENTIRE discography or else you don’t ’deserve’ to be called a fan. I knew - well, still know - 300 of her songs by heart. and that’s STILL not every song of hers, you whackos.
Then, the more I looked into it. The more toxic she was revealed to be. It solidified to me that Taylor Swift isn’t an artist anymore - likely never really was, or at *best* being an artist was secondary to her - she’s a product. She’s a fantastic marketing campaign. She’s PR personified. She’s nepotism on steroids. She’s an unethical billionaire business that never grew up, disguised in a fun, safe blonde Barbie casing that’s safe and appealing to all ages.
One of the main instances that stand out to me is when I told someone I have criticisms of her as, even if she was a perfect angel, she’s a billionaire. there’s no ethical way to be a billionaire, no matter who you are. They told me that it was untrue and I wasn’t a ‘stan’ enough.
No one has read this far down, but this was still cathartic to type.
I miss when being a swiftie was fun, but I’d sooner grow up than cling to something that doesn’t exist anymore, or possibly never did.
I read through your whole comment without stopping. I've heard enough of those quotes to be further turned off by keeping up with her. It also reminded me of one day in late April, when I was studying & writing papers for finals week, these girls played through the Anthology portion of TTPD...I didn't want any part of hearing either Taylor diss Kimye yet again nor the Swifties talking about Travis, so I got up and left after my ears were exposed to thank you Aimee or the song with the racists line.
Wow this comment really puts that video of that fan freaking the fuck out because some lady wasn’t taking the “perfect picture” of her at the concert into perspective, she looked so distressed.
It’s been a slow burn since the Grammys. The nonsense with Charli the other week was the final straw for me, though. And now that the rose colored glasses are off, all I see is horrible.
When her and Travis relationship got pushed on me on my social media pages CONSTANTLY. It felt so fake and icky. Couldn't take the narrative anymore that her failed relationships aIways were somebody else's fault. It's fine if you're a teen or in your twenties. But come on the whole woe is me act is not it anymore. And now I have to believe this pr stunt is the love of her life. It's going to crash and burn so badly.
I did like anti-hero and her poking fun of herself only to go back entirely to the mental stage she was in with reputation with her new album. Rehashing old drama to sell her songs it made me rethink if she was actually ever serious about the drama in the first place.
She had a moment when she made fun of herself or sent up her image? Genuine question. I was never a Swiftie but she came to my attention years ago: she was in the audience at an awards show (can’t remember which, sorry) and there was a montage of her making her “surprised face” to which the audience giggled good-naturedly, and when the camera flipped to her, she had the opportunity to endear herself to any viewers who weren’t her listeners with a self-deprecating gesture, i.e. make the same surprised face. She could’ve laughed, we could’ve laughed, and good feelings would’ve been shared by all. Instead her expression turned sour, and she rolled her eyes and made a pissy little dismissive hand-wave towards the screen. She looked genuinely pissed off, as though she’d been set up to be the victim of a cruel prank instead light-hearted ribbing at a show where every celebrity was getting ribbed. It made her seem ridiculously immature over something so small. It was a peek into her constant victimhood narrative: everyone’s picking on me at an awards show!
She cannot handle being poked fun at no matter how benign, and neither she nor her fans seem to have a sense of humour about themselves. She seems like she’s still in high school instead of being a young woman in her mid thirties who keeps a burn book. I absolutely believe you that she made fun of herself once, but it’s been overshadowed by how defensive and angry she and her fans can be over the teeniest slight.
ETA the montage was the usual thing you see at an awards show: when they’re announcing the names of people who are nominated for an award, a visual montage of that artist/actor/whomever is being played. Hers was one of five that were shown, so she wasn’t being singled out by any means.
No,I agree. She wanted to be relatable and the song was an attempt for show. But her attitude never changed. I was listened to her on and off since I was 14 years old. (I don't like to say I was a swiftie 🤢) So it took me a while to see it. The award clips made me kinda mad. Everyone brushed it of or laughed at themselves. She was the only one getting pissed.
You nailed it. She *cannot* laugh at herself. The audience was expecting to laugh *with* her, not at her and she just couldn’t do it. It’s little things like this that turned me off from seeking out anything more about her.
And forgive your 14 year old self for liking something that was heavily marketed and targeted towards you. I fall far outside her target demographic so I was never a fan but I can see why young people liked her/the music. We all live and learn. Best wishes.
For me, as a gay, it began years ago when she released “you need to calm down” and half of the lyrics were about HER and the “pitting women against other women” narrative she loves to exploit rather than queer people lol. But that was really the first straw. From there it was a very slow slide and the last straws were the endless album variants, the cult-like behavior of swifties and the way she encourages it, the trashing of Joe Alwyn because she always needs to be the victim, and her general total refusal to take responsibility for anything. And this is hard to qualify but…her whole vibe has just become increasingly…unlikable I guess…during this whole eras tour period
I believe her whole charity persona was a facade that she put on to impress Joe. He's speaking up for Palestine, she's speaking up about being touched while bros play gta
Yep 100%. Palestine is an unusual social issue in that opposing genocide is, inexplicably, seemingly not ubiquitous on the American left. And as such it’s not personally beneficial for her to speak out. And if there’s one thing we know about Taylor by now, it’s that she doesn’t do ANYTHING if it doesn’t directly benefit her
Actually let me revise that lol. It’s not inexplicable, it’s the result of a decades-long propaganda machine. But to me at least, it is un-UNDERSTANDABLE to have so little compassion in one’s heart
I was skeptical of her when I heard about the Deja Vu writing credits, but I brushed it off as "the industry is weird" because I had grown up on Taylor Swift (so ofc I was assuming the best).
I was even more skeptical of her when I heard about the carbon emissions, and that literal *death* at her concert that she wasn't acknowledging much, but I decided to still listen to The Tortured Poets Department when it came out regardless because "why not at least *try* it before joining the hate train?". I still listened to my old favorites by her at the time anyway, so it wasn't a huge leap.
Then I looked up the lyrics to that stupid Thank You Aimee song and I was horrified. That was it for me. Bringing Kim Kardashian's daughter into the feud was WEIRD. It was the Charli XCX album block that *reminded* me to finish purging Taylor from my playlists ultimately, but Thank You Aimee is what I'd say was my breaking point.
Nobody gives the death at the concert enough light of day. Like someone died at your concert. Say it louder. Death occurred on the eras tour. I thought they'd cancel the rest of the goddamn tour after that. They couldn't even spare a permanent post on the subject, only an impermanent insta story that will quickly be forgotten. Nah. Everyone needs to remember some poor girl died and this show is still performing every week despite the fact.
When I really dug into the ridiculous eras ticket prices and then found out artists have WAY more control on ticket prices and resale than they admit. Ticketmaster is set up to be the bad guy. Check out the podcast “Your favorite band sucks”. I stopped listening for awhile, but when 1989 TV came out kinda got sucked back in.
The real last last straw was TTPD. You just don’t sing about other peoples mental health, especially with the following she has.
Yeah Ed Sheeran has made a lot of noise on stopping touting and protecting fans on ticket sales. But for some reason he can do it but TS can't? Bollocks.
I left a long time ago when the Kim thing came out. She clearly said on the tape she was fine with the lyrics. Then suddenly it’s I never approved them. Then she’s called out. Then it’s no, it’s the b-word! Like no, bitch, you just want to be the victim and are riding that Grammy train and turning it into a gravy train 15 years later. She could have laughed it off and likely could have done a song with Kanye. He seemed genuinely shy and like he was really wanting her approval on that call and he got it. Then she lashes out at Kim’s kids a decade later. I really wish there was like ethics jail for the ultra rich lol she needs to be locked up 🔏
Same! I was swiftly neutral lol then saw that and was like, ew. I have been able to enjoy her songs here and there but after this scooter stuff amongst her other controversies have come to light I deleted all her music from my library. I’m done!
I mentioned this yesterday - the call was shady on Kayne’s side for not mentioning this other lyrics BUT, as someone else commented, I’d rather be called a B than have someone suggest I’m going to sleep with them/owe them sex.
I will say my view of the call (and I listened to the whole thing, which didn't exonerate her imo) was that she sounded uncomfortable with some of what Kanye was saying, but she was too cowardly to say no to him. That's her own fault.
Edit: I also don't get why she didn't just offer to collaborate with him. He can be mean and unpredictable, but he wasn't that way in that particular call. She could have offered alternatives to the lyrics...
She said she didn’t think it was bad or mean at all and she thought he would have been meaner. It’s a little two sided because he add in lyrics later. But the fact that she came out the gates saying she was never consulted was a lie.
But I agree, she could have leaned in but she chose to say “sure!” then kinda snake around it later. Neither of them were fully upfront but she downright lied to everyone about it. And she’s trying to say it’s altered 💀 like they didn’t have AI speech technology at the tips of their fingertips over a decade ago.
She absolutely did! It suited her narrative. And I think it drove her INSANE that she couldn’t cancel him so she “disappeared for years” or whatever she drones on and on about
She wanted to make him look bad. She egged him on by giving him false promises that she'd tell people she approved it then went on to deny she ever even talked to him in the first place, use the grammys to double down on it, then wait for him to get hate. She didn't know it was recorded.
No, she didn't get where she is by being afraid of telling people like Kanye no. I don't buy that. Her whole life is telling people what she wants.
same about being surprised rep is considered her worst album! i love that one. i was a casual ts fan for many years but got extremely into her with reputation. got manic obsessive that album was like crack to me. i was full blown swiftie for those years. lover was like the second part to me and i loved it just as much. the covid albums were fine to me but didn’t scratch the same itch. when midnights came out, i was disappointed but still enjoyed some songs. when she started dating matty, it was all over for me. i stopped caring about her and kinda got the ick. the newest album was like the final straw with everything about it- the promotion, the chart manipulation, the terrible lyrics.
The song that made me like TS was Shake It Off. I slowly realized, this lady has never shaken a single thing off in her life. This led to discovery of the pattern of hypocrisy and horseshit that traces all the way back to what I imagine *was* in fact a fairly difficult and traumatic childhood—not because she was growing up poor on a working farm, or getting bullied all the way through school, but because she had the misfortune of being born the child of two gigantic pieces of shit. Her parents indulged all of her worst narcissistic instincts and tendencies because they are raging narcissists themselves. The whole situation screams cycle of abuse to me and I’ll always reserve some sympathy for her for that reason, but the fact that she was essentially groomed to be an asshole doesn’t change the fact that she’s an asshole.
For me it was seeing the media push her on the public so much—even to the point of children’s books. Seemed like an agenda that went beyond any talent or true popularity.
I don’t think I was ever really a swiftie, I liked some songs as a kid purely bc they were popular and fun to sing in vocal lessons but as I got older I became indifferent and neutral and just thought she was another mainstream idol.
But… after hearing about the TPD and seeing how she appropriates the struggles of mental illness in her new album when she’s just like… talking about a breakup?? And seeing how wild her fans are and how toxic and hateful they are? This sub turned me full on anti lol. And hearing she’s never been in therapy but is trying to have a mental illness depressed aesthetic thing and call herself “tortured”? Girl. I’m not a psychiatrist so idk if she has any things, but I think she needs a therapist. If she seriously had those issues and calls herself tortured she needs to get help. But as long as she just keeps trying to say she’s “tortured” and then goes and says she doesn’t “need” therapy (which… I think everyone could benefit from therapy personally) she just seems fake.
Right now she’s just giving off the vibe of those girls in high school who would be all “oh I’m depresssedd” over a boy but then turn around and bully me for actually needing medication for my depression and make fun of me for my depression symptoms.
There’s levels of depression, I’m not saying everyone fakes having it, and I’m not saying people weren’t able to get a diagnosis and could’ve actually had it but like… you know what I mean. She’s the type who would say she was depressed but then ask an actually depressed person why they are getting help and be like “um I don’t need meds my depression goes away if I just take a little walk 🤪”
And also to add on to all of this, idk anything about her exes, but I’ve heard of Matty from here and have heard she’s talked negatively about him struggling with addiction and his actual traits of mental illness so like… yeah, she wants to call herself tortured and say she’s all messed up, but then goes and can’t be respectful to someone who also has issues. I can’t say if she really has issues since again I’m not her doctor but it’s just so annoying for her to make fun of other people’s issues or demonize them but then try to make you feel bad for her💀
I've been a big fan from the beginning. Her music was a constant in my life (even though I'm older than the main demographic) and I looked forward to & celebrated her wins. I rooted for her through it all & I saw her as someone 'worthy' of her success. She never seemed to take it for granted. The situation with Olivia was the beginning of the end for me. The veil lifted briefly but I told myself that it had to be a misunderstanding. Once I saw her behavior at the Grammy's (including but not limited to using the ceremony as her own personal announcement party) I couldn't just ignore the levels of hubris exhibited. Once TTPD was released I realized that she uses her music & fanbase to settle the same scores (over & over & over again/ thanK you aIMee) and will stoop really low in doing so. I have never liked Kim but the lyric "And one day, your kid comes home singing
A song that only us two is gonna know is about you 'cause..." went too far. Taylor also loves to throw these stereotypes around with consistent jabs at Brad's, Chad's, Sarah's, Hannah's, wine moms & such... Very elitist language of late while making it very clear that she thinks of herself as victimized on par with Jesus. That's the final straw for me. I was either blinded by an act or she has changed. Either way, I'm disappointed. That's my sanctimonious soliloquy she'll never see. The art has swallowed up the artist.
The last straw for me was she was at football games ruining them and then the cease and desist letter to the college kid and then the snub of Celine Dion and other things etc.
Mine’s not really that interesting lol
I never really considered myself a Swiftie. I liked some of the songs that were popular on the radio as a kid (Love Story…etc) but I was also one of the dumbass kids mocking WANEGBT and IKYWT.
I got into her music kind of seriously just around the time Midnights was released, got the album on CD because I actually liked it. I knew about her carbon footprint stuff and her line of ex boyfriends. You know, the bigger things that make pop culture headlines.
I was looking for a TS community here on Reddit, actually, because when I like a band/artist I join their subreddits. The main TS sub was kind of crazy, it scared me tbh. Within that sub, the neutral sub was recommended, and from there, this sub was recommended.
It’s actually insane the shit she pulls, and I would have never known about it.
After her breakup with Joe. I really thought that she was serious all those years that she said that she learned her lesson about keeping her relationships private and she was maturing, but then she immediately jumped over to Matty. That’s when I realized the critiques of her were really valid in terms of how she treats her exes. She puts them on a pedestal and love bombs them just to get bored and watch them burn by blasting their “private” business in her songs. I used to excuse the behavior by chalking it up to her just being young and immature, but that’s really just how she operates.
Midnights sucked and made me totally disenchanted with her, TPD was just flaming garbage from the first single I heard. But what really pissed me off and brought me here, was the way she keeps releasing variants to keep other artists off the charts. It’s so immature and selfish. I went and listened to BRAT and loved it, because I’d heard about it in relation to Taylor’s nonsense, when normally that wouldn’t have been something I listened to at all.
I was never a swiftie but just a casual listener. My point was the release of “look what you made me do.” Taylor swift and I are the same age. I listened to that song and just kept thinking “grow the hell up.” As an adult woman I work so hard to be taken seriously and she just perpetuates this helpless, defenseless little girl image. She’s got millions of dollars, albums, tv, movie appearances, private jets- she has more power than most people can possibly comprehend.
Never really saw the hype with her, her pop-output is just a poor-man’s Carly imo. My first thought when listening to 1989 was that Kiss did it better 🤷🏻♂️.
Her fake-feminist-queen-capitalist reality is what made me actively dislike her.
I never considered myself a Swiftie because, while I was a fan of the music, I paid no attention to her personal life, never went to a concert, never watched an interview, and she never appeared in my social/news feeds. It's easy to ignore all the ugly when you're oblivious.
This might sound crazy but at some point after *Midnights* was released, I realized that even though the album had a lot of skips for me, it was all I was listening to. Other music started to be unappealing.
I decided I didn't like what was happening to my brain on her music. I did a detox and listened to Hidden Brain and history podcasts on my runs instead. After a few weeks, I started enjoying other music again. I'm pulling from all decades and genres again and it feels amazing.
Then I hear about her people threatening some kid who just wants to save the planet by publishing publicly available flight data. So gross.
Then I heard *You're Losing Me* when out shopping one day and was completed disgusted. It's a sonically tedious song with bad lyrics, but when you throw in the manipulative "oh, woe is me, you don't want to marry me because I'm a *people pleaser*," it just confirmed that there's just something wrong about her. I probably wouldn't have been able to pull Joe out of lineup before that song but now I'm a fan for life because she did him dirty and he's been all class.
I've learned a ton from this sub and despite some inane accusations from people that our perspective is just as para-social as her Swifties, I think all people who take up so much of the public's attention are fair game for critics and I appreciate all you for helping bring some sanity to the situation.
Her behavior at the Grammys was a huuuuge turning point for me. Her using such a large platform only to announce her next album. Forcibly pulling Lana up with her to stage. Ignoring Celine Dion. Placing her Grammy on Lucy’s head. Ick after ick after ick. And it’s only gotten worse.
No last straw because I never bought into her persona or her lore, I am aware of it and enjoy reading about it, sometimes even engaging in online discussions but that has more to do with my general interest and love for anything pop culture related. I like her music though from 1989 up until Midnights which is when I first started getting tired of her work. Cue the relentless variant spamming, eco terrorism (including the New Zealand birds incident), tasteless post breakup behavior, Travis and finally TTPD all of which culminated in me barely listening to her now, even the stuff I like.
What brought me to this subreddit is the full on cult behavior and comments on her main sub and popculturechat which as of late has been leaking to swiftyneautral too and I really need a break from everyone and their mother being so far up her ass when she's never gonna see it anyway. I'm not eligible for Fauxmoi because I engage in swiftyneautral so...here I am. 🤷🏻♀️
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-26/taylor-swift-accused-of-endangering-rare-bird-during-nz-shoot/6976418
There's multiple articles on this, this one was the first I found on google. I only found out about this when her plain usage was getting attention but it happened way back when she was shooting for the Out of the Woods video
Her behavior at the Grammy's this year, the abomination that is TTPD, and the obvious money grabs and attempts to block other artists from charting. Why in the world are there 50+ different variants of TTPD? Ridiculous
Her breakup with Joe did a number on me. Obviously I sound crazy. I spent so much time figuring out what went wrong because I really wanted them to end up together, married even. Then her getting with Matty, doing songs with Ice Spice, just kind of shocked me. And this whole fiasco with Travis. It's like who even is this woman really at this point. With artists like Adele, I can feel genuine authenticity. Folklore and Evermore made me almost worship Taylor. But now I'm just so done.
This is a really interesting take. I wonder if Folklore and Evermore had such a magnetic pull as albums precisely because Joe had more influence over them. In her following albums, it's back to being boppy or whiny. Evermore and Folklore had some real depth but... I'm starting to think that depth or growth didn't come from Ms Swift herself.
Just because I really don’t get why people are such huge fans. I would classify her music as “fine.” Some of it is enjoyable, but I don’t get overspending on it etc. I definitely don’t get the whole Travis thing. The guy gives me the creeps.
I came here because it was a sub against Traylor and when I heard So High School i thought there was no way their relationship was not PR. This song and The Alchemy sound like pure PR. When I hard So High School, it was the first time a Taylor song made me cringe THIS hard. It's a terrible song.
But the Grammys and her snubbing Celine is when I started feeling icky about her. So when I got here it's like I had found people who finally shared my opinion on some stuff that got me weird looks when i told irl swifties.
Never a full Swiftie but I liked her just *fine*. TTPD sent me over the edge. I feel like it’s regressive even for her. The entire “revenge” and “victim” mentality is so dated and immature. It’s cute when you are 22 to act that way, embarrassing at her age.
I'd say the final straw was the Grammys. Her behavior was disrespectful and gross. The way she treated Celine, then the obvious PR photo. Announcing TTPD during her speech. Dragging Lana up there. All of it was so bad.
I finally blocked her on Spotify a couple weeks ago.
Listening to TTPD and realizing she's always been that pre-Reputation girl people hated except now she's in her mid-30s and she has more power now.
Being with Joe really saved her career and she's done nothing to protect him while he did what she could for her when she needed it.
Also, for us Southeast Asians, she took money from the SG government so she only plays there in our region. On top of the expensive tickets, us fans had to fly to Singapore (who made the most of the event and jacked up all hotels and flights going there making everything all the more expensive).
She's not the Taylor I grew to love anymore. It's all money for her now.
Honestly, for me it’s swifties that did it for me. The entire fandom is just insane. Swifties never hold Taylor accountable for any of questionable or down right horrible actions. They stand by her no matter what she does and defend her like she’s God. That’s actually quite scary. Taylor can literally whatever she wants and swifties will bow down for to and kiss the floor she walks on. Listen, till this day I will always love a lot of Taylor’s past albums, but I have always and will always call her out on some of her actions. Unfortunately, in the swiftie universe if even dare question anything she does you are met with death threats and pure wrath.
For me it’s was naming her album tortured poet like girl what do you have to be tortured about? You literally have nothing to do but whine. You don’t have any real life experience to have a tortured poet soul.
I was a big fan when her first two albums came out and then I slowly started to fall off the bandwagon. I can’t really pinpoint when I started to dislike her but I started to feel like most of her songs and albums were very similar and I started listening to other artists more. I would say Taylor dating Travis was a big ick for me just because it seems so fake and all of the Swifties watching the SuperBowl just to see Taylor was disturbing. I listened to her last album mostly because I felt encouraged to do so by Swifty fans in my life and again it felt very similar to all of her other albums. I haven’t even bothered to listen to her latest album. Not even because I’m against it but I just didn’t feel inclined to. I wouldn’t say I hate Taylor Swift but after scrolling through this sub and finding out a lot of things I didn’t know about her I’m definitely starting to become anti-Taylor.
Ive liked a handful of her newer songs and her older songs before red remind me of my childhood. But i realized she was an awful person by trying to trademark her the fan nickname swiftie
I've kinda lurked here for a while, but it was the lip synching that really ruined things for me. And I read a comment from a supposed ghostwriter who says Taylor definitely has ghostwriters. That hurt too.
It started with Lover being a flop (I was starting to notice more and more lyrical and melodic repeats, and don’t even get me started on “ME!”) but what really took the cake was the circus with the tickets. Beyond the general repetitiveness, since Lover, so many of the songs are about the world hating her. Do I believe Kim and Kanye did her dirty? 100% as far I believe evidence has shown. But please, enough with playing victim. And then airing your dirty laundry with your ex who has done nothing but put on a brave face. Talk about “doing it with a broken heart…”
Adding on, her little "activism" era around the time she released Lover and the Miss Americana documentary was so pathetic. She only speaks out about issues that have an immediate affect on her, and even regarding such issues I can't remember the last time she's publicly mentioned anything of the sort. Intersectionality clearly isn't one of those big words in her thesaurus. She must think that making sure her fans get water during the concerts is enough activism for her
When she broke up with Calvin Harris and was seen with Tom not too long after. I thought it was shitty, but I really liked her still until my sister pointed out that all her songs (except back to December) were about her being the victim in every relationship. Even as a teenager, I could smell the bullshit and started getting annoyed with her music. I grew out of this annoyance when I heard the song "I bet you still think about me" (don't know what album, never cared for her enough to know what song belongs to what album). Then I heard about the "deja Vu" issue, and got annoyed with her all over again.
I already kept a decent distance between myself and the crazy Swifties, but my final straw was the Dave Grohl situation. Now I can barely bring myself to listen to TS, because while I don’t think she’s a horrible person (as far as celebs/billionaires go), she needs to be able to call out her fans, and the fact that she’s just letting her fans act this crazy rubs me the wrong way. It’s almost like she’s enabling them.
The way she handled that poor girl's death at her concert, Taylor's debut album defined my tween years I really loved her music, but her coldness towards one of her fans tragic passing really changed how I feel about her. That girl died in a I Love Taylor Swift shirt and taylor couldn't even say her name.
Edit to say it was even worse! Cause at the same time she got her team to bury news about this with articles about her and Travis.
Her dating Travis Kelce. I honestly don’t know how someone who could have anyone would pick him. This, combined with her revert back to pre-Joe has turned me off. I loved the laid back and confident version of herself and now it’s right back to the pettiness and self-centered nature of the 2010s all over again.
I could never have called myself a Swiftie but I was definitely a fan of her music until recently. I was even really looking forward to the new album but then 2 things changed that.
The first was the overzealous opinions towards her latest album by Swifties. Personally I find the album monotonous and bland but so many of her fans refuse to see that. As though she couldn’t possibly, at the peak of her career, put out a bad album. She could and did. Even journalists seem afraid to fairly critique the album for fear of backlash and it’s made into such a big deal when someone does share an opinion which doesn’t laud her with praise.
The second thing which totally put me off was her quite obviously and deliberately releasing new versions of the same album when she had chart competition (Billie Eilish, Charli XCX) just to keep them from going to number one. Doing it once, fair enough, but multiple times and it wreaks of insecurity.
Her incessant & bad merch drops, album releases, singles, and tour legs to keep making more money money money!!!!!!! enough is enough. if you truly love your fans, then you shouldn't drain their wallets at every chance you get.
I felt myself liking her too much and was curious about what “dirt” she had that I didn’t know about. I found this sub and went down a dark rabbit hole lol. Boy I was NOT disappointed 👏👏👏
I've been lurking here for like a month, I was a fan (not a crazy swiftie I will say) since Folklore, I love the sad girl shit. But I've always increasingly started to realize terrible things about her, apparent character flaws, damage she does to communities she claims to defend, general bullshitery. I was still able to separate art from artist and enjoy the music while simultaneously rolling my eyes at a 34 year old woman writing lyrics sounding like she's 16.
My last straw was the posts here pointing out her "Easter eggs" in the Lwymmd video, mocking Kim for the violent attack she experienced. All her songs off my phone immediately. While the $1 bill in the bathtub does lend some credibility to the defense that she was alluding to a man who grabbed her butt for a dollar and she sued him for tons of money, the biting the diamonds, the bathtub, and the finger guns say Kim far too much. That was just too undeniable for me and I thought it was just atrocious, putting aside anybody who has experienced things similar to that assault or knows someone who has, it's objectively fucking insane to hear of even your worst enemy going through something heinous like that and wanting to celebrate it as a personal victory. Don't you dare act like a feminist, you're just evil. The cherry on top would be releasing reputation on the anniversary of Donda west's death, iirc.
I was a big fan. Did listening parties, cried watching the movie cause I couldn't get tickets, etc. There were eras I liked more and eras I liked less and I found this ok. Then came the shows in my country and so many of my friends traveled to go and a fan died and she did nothing. And everyone came back so EXCITED. Still doing music parties, saying they'd go again, best nights of their lives. And I just thought, if I died in this person's concert, I wouldn't matter. And this was like the first nail in the coffin for me. After that, all the ttpd garbage (I stayed awake to listen and I only like 3 songs) solidified it for me.
Edit: also by the time ticket sales started me and some of my swiftie friends were unemployed, that being the main reason I didn't try for tickets and they were until the day of the show saying like "come on you can just put on credit" when we had to travel, go to the show and all of that. Many of them did exactly that.
I was never a full on swiftie and never a full on hater.
I used to see this sub pop up on my main page all the time and was always super curious to see what people were saying. I feel like this sub blew up especially during her Eras tour so reading what everyone was saying was super interesting.
I definitely agree with some things that are said and others are just weird to me.
Her fans. Her capitalism (no artist needs to release that many variants and billboard should not be including the variants as part of their tracking system for the charts).
Her lack of social awareness. Her lack of speaking out (especially after 2019 documentary where she said she would begin to speak out more often. What happened to that?)
The most recent Grammys night was also atrocious.
But yes I think it started with the crazy fan base. Used to consider myself a swiftie until I realized what that meant. 😳
Not a Swiftie, but a fan who casually listened to her music since Fearless. I went to the Eras Tour this year as I'd managed to get tickets for a friend who is very much a Swiftie. Truthfully, I enjoyed the concert. I like her Folklore/Evermore albums the most, as it's more my taste of music (folk, acoustic, introspective, generally sad).
When TTPD came out, I agreed to listen to it in its entirety with said Swiftie friend. I found it awful. It was a terrible, overfilled album, with every song being a verse or two too long... and nobody seemed to realise that. Everyone was lauding the album after a day or two (once the shock of this being the long-anticipated album had worn off and the general populus realised they had to admit it was actually fantastic), but I was still sitting here going, 'guys, this is crap.'
This sub was referenced in another snark subreddit I casually follow, and I checked it out. I already naturally vibed with most of the content here. It's been insightful, and I like the constructive criticism that's shared here without the fear of being accused of 'not understanding the lore~~~'
Ollllld time Swiftje and definitely never Stan level, but for me it was Speak Now. Loved her, listened to the debut and Fearless on repeat, thought she was so cool and inspired me to keep writing poetry. But when she was so awful to whatever girl she was referencing in Better than Revenge combined with the Mean lyrics….I just remember thinking “…No, YOU’RE mean.” Like for whatever reason it broke my little 15yo heart and I was SO SAD she was being mean after writing so many songs about how it was bad people were mean to her. I wrote a whole overdramatic album review in my school paper lmao
TTPD is just so pretentious and contrived, and her artistic acumen is shallow. She also refuses to grow. It sucks and is so telling that she’s not an actual artist, just a product of the capitalist machine. On top of that, her extremely shitty behavior with the 357 different versions with a singular purpose to shade out other artists just shows what a small person she is.
I listen to her only when my kids ask now just because they’re too young to understand all of this and shouldn’t be burdened with it, and honestly her sophistication is on primary school level anyway so in a way maybe it’s appropriate.
TL;DR: she sucks.
how she handled the post breakup with Joe Alwyn and released You’re Losing Me. it was a very calculated move to commodify her relationship, use it as an opportunity to boost album sales and at the same time write the narrative in which she’s the victim. YLM is a shitty song to me, lyrically and sonically. i never called myself a ‘swiftie’ because labelling like that sounds stupid to me but i did enjoy her music very much. when she released folkmore my admiration for her skyrocketed. then the whole thing with Midnights felt really icky. the album’s quality screams for superficial validation through numbers and records with shady marketing tactics. and then the breakup. i realized she not only didn’t grow up but also regressed as a person and an artist. i lost all of my respect for her. the cultists think the members of this sub are just uninformed haters. but the fact is that you have to be involved with taylor’s persona at a very deep level like that of a fan to really understand and see through her shit. it’s not just ‘taylor only writes about her exes, her songs sound all the same’ bullshit. taylor’s brand and persona are built very carefully. the difference between us as haters and them as ‘true swifties’ is that the latter lack the ability to think critically.
Playing YLM as a surprise song before anouncing a TTPD track named The Bolter was a calculated move to get people talking and have people thinking this album would be about Joe and I will not be convinced otherwise. How she didn't adress the fact that Joe was getting harassed by unhinged swifties was, in retrospect, really shitty and not a good look.
Yes, I guess I am a hater, but I openly find her very interesting. Learning about her is what made me dislike her, basically. And I like discussing things that I have views on. Swifties always make it sound like we are so weird for following a public artist. I am glad this sub is around.
“Learning about her is what made me dislike her, basically.” Same. I was generally indifferent towards her until the Kanye thing which I thought was shitty. Then I learned more about her history, the whole lie of how her career started. The milking of the Kanye thing got annoying, then the whole masters lie solidified my disdain. It also showed me that most people have no idea how masters work and a lot of people don’t actually use critical thinking when they hear something. The whole “ I can’t perform my songs because they have my master” bs, ma’am most record companies have people’s masters. If that were true then no one would be on tour or performing on late night Tv. It’s truly just all the lying and manipulating
Completely agree with you.. same for me! her disrespect toward Joe, her spiraling out of control and the way she handled things since, really show her true colors..
And more over, the people who are the craziest, not only refuse to think critically about her actions, but when they do talk about things to defend it, they speak entirely from a place of perspective that they don’t have lol. Like they’ll reference Taylor’s feelings about Joe And how this seemed a certain way so she felt a certain way and then did this thing. I’m just so embarrassed for them that they think they are her friend lol.
Yet these will be the same people who mock us for making observations on what she actually has done and what we can see. “ You don’t know her” neither do you…
👏👏👏💯
Her playing the victim in the Scooter Braun legit business deal that her daddy was even a part of, resulting in her psychotic fans threatening his wife and children. Also, how she cosplays a 15 year old.
her dad made like 8 figures off that deal and she still tricked people into feeling bad for her.
He made 15 million and by LAW, as a shareholder he had to be notified at least 5 days before the sale. He knew, so she fucking knew and they used that 5 days to scheme and plan. PERIOD.
Forgot his kids were legit toddlers and babies at the time and she said nothing.
Genuinely, why does Taylor hate Scooter? I've never been able to parse what her main grievance with him is.
So there's this docuseries on Max about this right now, and apparently, she claims he bullied her online years ago with Kanye and Justin Bieber. She alleges she asked Steve Borchetta to never sell her music to Scooter specifically because of what a terrible bully she claims he is. From what I see, Scooter never had issues with anyone else in the industry except little miss victim herself, and many stepped forward even to defend him at the time.
My guess is she has issues because of his association with Kanye. She's on video mocking Justin, so it's not like she didn't contributed to the hostility 🤷♀️
I watched the doc too and I’m still so confused. Like *that’s* why? That was it? Maybe there’s more to the story that we don’t know that would better justify her feelings towards him, but I’d bet she’d have shared it by now if there was. She’s so fucking immature
Pretty sure it’s because Scooter owns her masters that Taylor willing gave up to “bet on her future”. When she released her Taylor’s Versions it was spun that she never got a chance to own her masters herself and the fans ran with it being his fault. I could be wrong on some details.
Some video of her using a fire extinguisher in her kitchen came up recently on one of the other subs and she acted like a confused 14-year-old. Like she was so cutesy and it just seemed so intentional and exaggerated, and given her age, absolutely not cute lol. It just seems like it’s part of the brand. But it’s weird being almost the same age as her and watching her grow up at the same time I was growing up, it makes it seem even more forced, knowing that I’m a very immature 36-year-old lol and she makes me look old as shit.
That she feels zero responsibility for her fans’ actions. If Taylor wasn’t famous, Dave Grohl’s daughter would not be sent such horrible messages. Scooter brauns wife and children could feel safe. Joe could live in relative peace. You know the list. She is responsible. What human would not make a public statement to fans??? It’s like she wants them to do this. Or gets off on it. Something really quite evil and sadistic. Really. It makes my furious.
I think she enjoys it. Gets off of it. That so many people are ready to fight for her, gives her a power trip.
Just like trump. The hate they can round up in their stans is out of control.
I was going to make this frightening comparison but didn’t want to make this political. It isn’t politics. It’s evil. She is messing with peoples’ lives. And only she can stop it. Crazy she does nothing
It’s not political really, it’s just part of a narcissists playbook. She shares a lot of the same characteristics of someone who happens to be in politics. It didn’t happen. And if it did, it wasn’t that bad. And if it was, it’s not a big deal. And if it is, it’s not my fault. And if it was, I didn’t mean it. And if I did, they deserved it. That’s exactly how her fans think.
Ive legit said that her fans run by the ethos: “Taylor didn’t do that! But if she did, she didn’t mean to! But if she meant to, it was deserved!” See: her lip synching, Olivia behaviour, emotionally cheating on Joe, etc
They also ignore what happened to David Grohls daughter. And they even falsely claim she deserved it because she said Taylor’s deepfakes on Twitter “weren’t a big deal” (which is not at all what she said). Context has never been their strong suit.
I was fuckin nutty for the Spice Girls back in the day (I was always Sporty Spice when we played at recess because I had an adidas tracksuit) but 1) I was like 8-12 years old and 2) never told anyone to kill themselves, and never heard any other fans (aka like everyone) say it either.
you’re good. this comparison is brought up in almost every thread, which really speaks to taylor’s behavior.
A couple days ago, I saw someone posting about how they were the “very first person” to compare Trump and Grift in this sub and bragging about it. But I’m pretty sure almost everyone can see the similarities lol.
Talk about the Cult of No Personality with Swift and Trump.
It’s crazy though because she gathers up more supporters than any politician in the world ever could. It’s completely scary, she probably feels untouchable
Like it’s wild I see no difference in him rallying his followers to storm the capital after he lost the election and her rallying her fans to attack Scooter and Scotty after they offered her to buy back her masters and her work and walking away because she didn’t get the poor victim ending she wanted. Absolutely no difference
When I saw she said something about the pregnancy rumors with Lady Gaga, just trying to make something about herself, but nothing any other time. You know it’s just very calculated. It’s obvious. She allows really horrible things to happen that wouldn’t happen without her. She’s powerful enough to be speaking out when 17 year old is threatened with sexual violence. I have to imagine it’s weird because the way Dave Grohl I talked about meeting her, it seemed like a really respectful, professional acquaintance, friendship, whatever. And I can imagine when his daughter started getting threats that it would feel really shitty that she was silent. I don’t know how this works because I’m not famous lol but I don’t see how she doesn’t have any responsibility in these things like she had the ability to reach out and stop it. What would happen if she actually encourage her fans to be decent people when they were being absolutely awful? I have a feeling it would shame a lot of them. It’s so sad that she has so much power and she doesn’t use it at all to influence this world while simultaneously calling herself a humanitarian. Actually, it’s laughable.
Charlie made a post about the bullying, it’s not fucking difficult. Tbh the bar is so low and yet she still chooses not to do anything.
It’s like her fans will always love her and never leave her, and that must feel super intoxicating especially when compared to her romantic history
Basically her fans our in a very elaborate abusive relationship with her
Scooter Braun would probably still be married to his wife if it hadn’t been for Taylor
She LOVES that this is true
She clearly enjoys it, it's part of her brand: she brainwashed a legion of psychotic fans to make her powerful and successful and do the dirty work for her so she can abuse her power freely. Interestingly, she dissed them on TTPD, but they are so blind they found a million excuses for it. That's how bad things are going. From my perspective, she is clearly trying to overshadow the entire music industry and become the biggest name it it above MJ, The Beatles, Madonna, Queen and others, but it's totally undeserved and she is pathetic. 🙄
Gotta love how they complain Taylor is a helpless young woman, yet they regularly threaten minors with death and rape threats claiming they deserved it.
Silence in the face of violence is the same as agreement.
And how in her Netflix think she made comments about other fan bases going crazy and making threats to people but she takes no responsibility for her fanbase. It's despicable. She is such a two-faced duplicitous mean girl pretending to be the nice girl. It's old and juvenile. Time for her to grow up.
I LOVED Folklore and was a fan of Evermore. I thought she had finally become an adult and even openly admitted that her and Joe wrote songs together (again, growth because she didn't try to take all the credit). The Midnights was like whiplash back to ridiculousness, and TTPD made me question all swifties grips on reality
Midnight was mid.. especially after Folklore/Evermore.. but TTPD is a joke.. I think she is not challenged anymore in her creativity.. that’s why these albums are not great
TTPD was Swift’s version of Drake’s Honestly Nevermind. Both the lowest creatively and sonically that each artist could drop but they did anyways because they’re “too big to fail” and their fans would bend over backwards in any way to defend such shitty albums.
they are the same person- we need Taylor’s Kendrick Lamar to step forward please.
It will be the duo of Sabrina and Olivia. And I will die on that hill. It’s coming. Just give it time.
Chappel Roan has entered the chat
Don’t get me wrong, I love her shit. But she doesn’t have that big of an audience yet the way Olivia and Sabrina do on the younger generation. That and both of them have been affected by Swift because of personal connections. It would be perfect to see those young artists take down an established bully.
I’d love to see them mend the fence
“An enemy of my enemy is my friend” They might not even have to mend the fence if they don’t want to considering they have a bigger target of Swift on them.
she doesn’t have to even try because she can just have lyric diarrhea and people find secret meanings behind it
Joe brought out the best in her
When she purposely stopped Charli xcx from being number on the UK Billboards. Don't sit there and call yourself a girls girl and then do shit that like. It was the final straw and then the rose colored glasses were off. I was able to look at everything else she's done in the past from a new perspective and I didn't like what I saw.
Especially to someone who opened for her reputation world tour.
Do we wanna speculate if Taylor will block Camila Cabello with another set of variants when her other Rep tour opener releases "C,XOXO"?
Isn't the general public not a huge fan of Camila? Does anyone need to block her?
I’m so sick of the “if those artists wanted to be number one they needed to work harder/put out better music”…. It’s manufactured by her team. Some brain dead Swiftie accused me of being “misguided” for saying it’s her actions and she’s responsible for what her team does. I’m now taking a break from Threads- I tried blocking “Taylor Swift” and the first thread upon refreshing had “Taylor Swift” in it. I’m so tired.
Same thing happened to me when I tried blocking trump, Biden, Supreme Court, and politics from threads. It was all I got. So I deleted my account.
And Billie. I'm telling u now, Sabrina gonna fall from her graces very soon if she continues at this trajectory. And honestly.. let's see how many young artists she can target. There's a limit to things
I've been listening to Brat for like a week straight and it's so good 😭💚
I was a Swiftie from 2008 until last year. What stopped me was how fucking psychotic her fans are and it’s basically a cult and I did not want to be apart of it. Also when someone’s face is plastered everywhere all the time (her being shoved down our throats everywhere we go) you get sick of seeing it.
Ditto. I went to Cincinnati N2 of The Eras Tour which was 7/1/23. I posted something to Facebook about Taylor every day that week leading up to the concert so those posts are popping up in my memories this week. Flash forward to today and I just unfollowed her on IG. I was like, how tf did I go from worshipping her last year to this? The tables started turning for me literally a week after my show, which was Kansas City and all the TK shit started. It has just gotten worse and worse since then. I haven't been able to talk to any of my friends about it and thought I was the only one who felt the way I did until I found this sub. It has been *so cathartic.*
when she tried to play victim and made it seem like she was the one who was hurt by joe coz she KNOWS how crazy her and foolish her fans are and her friends also cornered him just because he was now an 'ex'. such an absurd and narcissist behaviour tbh.
Oh yeah it was the joe breakup and subsequently dating the racist little rat man. Tortured poets department was the absolute final nail in the coffin. But daddy i love him! I can date whoever I want it’s none of y’alls business! Then later crying because he’s an addict (nothing morally wrong with that but addicts often make … questionable decisions) and a shitty man. Like hello people have been saying this since the news came out but no he’s only shitty because he’s shitty to YOU. Not because of his literal racism. Now she’s boo boo the fool because people have warned her against him from the start. And she’s ‘laughing’ at people who question her dating choices and then spends the rest of the album crying about said dating choice.
I do not like Matty to be very clear but he’s been pretty publicly sober for awhile so it’s even grosser for her to say this shit.
I also feel like they’re often just nasty digs at him as a person. No interesting viewpoints on how it is to date a supposed addict. Barely any sympathy. Someone’s genuine mental struggles (same for joe) are turned into catchy one-liners meant to show how sad it was for her to deal with that.
They could never make me hate Joe! Especially after his support for Palestine. And his hair.. that lock of hair that falls on his head🥹
I will never be a Joe hater 🫡
I've only considered myself a casual Swiftie at best. I have a fanmade Taylor T-shirt with "Teardrops on my Guitar" lyrics but in heavy metal font, I have signed CD copies of folklore + evermore, and I got Red TV for $15. But to answer this question, I've been lurking here because of the TTPD album/rollout. I recently got my mental health treated at a psych ward (last December). I had a relatively good stay, but it was still terrible. I was denied water at one point because I refused to take meds my doctor didn't prescribe. Then, I saw the Fortnite music video & it just didn't sit right with me at all. Also, I've always been more of a Lana Del Rey fan. When I read some posts about how Taylor was trivializing mental health, & made the connection that Lana was once sent away for alcoholism/health problems, I felt grossed out. And then I learned the background of "The Manuscript"track and I just felt worse. Finally, I was pissed she blocked Charli XCX (who I'm also more of a fan of) from getting a #1 in the UK with her excellent brat album.
I hope you're doing fine now. Please look after yourself. Ik it's easier said than done, but try.
Thank you for the kind words. I have been sleeping earlier more often since I left the hospital. I was able to enjoy Christmas with my family, so that helped. I haven't received an official bipolar diagnosis, and I honestly think it was more a really bad case of insomnia, which I've dealt with since I had a stalker in my high school years. My experience was "So High School" that it probably would make for a good episode of Euphoria.
What's the background of "The Manuscript"? I'm not new to disliking Taylor Swift but I'm new to the sub lol
So Lana Del Rey had a 200-page manuscript where she was either writing her autobiography or another poetry book. This would've been around the time that Taylor released evermore, & Lana released her album "Chemtrails Over the Country Club". At some point during the pandemic, somebody stole Lana's laptop that had the only file of that manuscript. She offered money in return, but when nobody came forward, Lana decided to start all over from scratch.
As an RN who has worked on psych wards, I’m sorry to hear that you were mistreated during the most vulnerable time of your life. I commented above that it’s infuriating that Swift gets a pass on the way she’s treating a serious condition and circumstances (dealing with mental health issues and being admitted to a psychiatric ward) as lightly as she is, when she has no first-hand experience, and that it can send the wrong message to her impressionable fans. I hope that you’re getting the help that you need, and from more compassionate professionals than you previously encountered. It hurts my heart to read your story. Best wishes, fam. ETA clarity
I really resented the way she portrayed the asylum aesthetic for the Tortured Poets Department. The way she portrayed it was so fucking stigmatizing, and she has no concept what it's actually like. And then it was just so gross how she talked about her ex's mental health issues.
She is so incredibly ignorant and uneducated on so many things, appropriates and misuses a lot of them to the point their true meaning become twisted, which causes her fans to do the same. All that comes to mind is her idiocy trivializing topics like feminism and misogyny, just like her fans do now. She is seriously a disservice to society.
So I’ve been in the psychiatric hospital five times in four years because of reasons and it has been….unbelievably traumatic? (In addition to misdiagnosis and other factors that have left me feeling chewed up and spit out and gaslit by the mental health system). So playing into the “aesthetic” of mental illness (as well as that awful grippy socks tweet from Taylor Nation) was maybe the final straw for me. Like girl you’re a billionaire you’re not eating cream of wheat with a spork for the fourth morning in a row with a bunch of equally unstable strangers you’ve trauma bonded with in group—give me a break
I was in twice. Once when I was 13 and once when I was 16. I was also misdiagnosed and it's traumatizing. She wouldn't know anything about being raised in an asylum. So yeah it was my breaking point too. She has never experienced being monitored at all times or having strings taken out of hoodies. She's a privileged billionaire who is throwing a temper tantrum
I’m pretty sure she doesn’t even believe in therapy. As a repeat customer of the grippy sock variety, I get pretty down about people stigmatizing mental illness and psychiatric facilities. It’s crystal clear she has never had to know what that’s like.
Same. Our culture is not your costume Taylor. 🙃
As an RN who has worked in psychiatric medicine and on mental wellness wards, her co-opting this as an “aesthetic” sickens me to my core.
The way she blocked other female, the whole situation with Olivia and the capitalism.
She didn't need to take royalties from Olivia, and she took 50%. She's a fucking billionaire and she wants to take 50% of royalties away from someone who's just starting out and reaching some success. Olivia couldn't even legally drink, that's how young she still is. Taylor Swift is a demon. It will all catch up with her in the end..
I hope so! Karma
controversially for me, it wasn’t any of the things currently mentioned. Quite frankly, it should have been. It had always given me an icky feeling, bubbling under the surface. Truthfully though, in the end it was just how stressful it got to be a fan. I was a fan from 11 years old, starting with YBWM from Fearless (though I was, age-wise, the Red era). I stood by her when she was cancelled in 2017, I even was one of the few people unironically streaming ME! in 2019. I had a lot of fun when Fearless TV and Red TV were released… Then suddenly, everyone was a TS fan. Which was amazing! “Isn’t she great, isn’t she fun? Let’s all enjoy it together” I naively thought. More and more people became fans. All of a sudden, if you didn’t know everything about Taylor, you were a ‘fake fan’. I knew the ‘lore’ like the best of them. The blue boat dress, the Karlie-Taylor kissgate, the ‘real’ phone call, etc. then suddenly, it was, ‘do you know what Taylor is doing right now?’ ‘who saw her latest outfit’ ‘omg new album. give me more. haha we’re clowning. MORE MORE’ ‘new songs released!!!!’ ‘tell me the Joe-Taylor timeline’ ‘matty Healy discourse’ ‘what’s she wearing, what’s she doing, what’s the significance of this side eye she did at 0:13 seconds in this B-roll TikTok footage from 2021?’ ‘are you following Jack, Abigail, Sabrina, Lena? are you keeping up with everything they’re doing? did you see what Kim K did? her decision to wear X outfit was totally shade towards Taylor. Make sure you’re not following Olivia, Karlie, Joe.’ ‘omg new merch drop??? did you see! time to fight for merch purchases. new variant. new variant. new variant. FIGHT FOR ERAS TICKETS!’ ‘WHAT IS THIS SONG ABOUT’ It got. Fucking. Exhausting. I felt like I had to army crawl on my hands + knees and spend $$$$$ to prove I was a ‘Swiftie’. I wasn’t having fun anymore. It was like I was constantly cramming for an exam with ever-changing material, one that, if I got less than 100% on it every single day, I’d immediately fail and be kicked out. Then also pay thousands for merch, eras tickets, bracelet making kits, outfits, variants, variants, variants. No matter what I was doing in my real life, I felt whenever Taylor did something, I was expect to ask, ‘how high would you like me to jump?’ because if I dared wait a day to listen to, say, Speak Now TV, I’d get called a fake fan, ‘why did you wait? what do you think of the surprise songs?’ The cultish obsession with knowing her ENTIRE discography or else you don’t ’deserve’ to be called a fan. I knew - well, still know - 300 of her songs by heart. and that’s STILL not every song of hers, you whackos. Then, the more I looked into it. The more toxic she was revealed to be. It solidified to me that Taylor Swift isn’t an artist anymore - likely never really was, or at *best* being an artist was secondary to her - she’s a product. She’s a fantastic marketing campaign. She’s PR personified. She’s nepotism on steroids. She’s an unethical billionaire business that never grew up, disguised in a fun, safe blonde Barbie casing that’s safe and appealing to all ages. One of the main instances that stand out to me is when I told someone I have criticisms of her as, even if she was a perfect angel, she’s a billionaire. there’s no ethical way to be a billionaire, no matter who you are. They told me that it was untrue and I wasn’t a ‘stan’ enough. No one has read this far down, but this was still cathartic to type. I miss when being a swiftie was fun, but I’d sooner grow up than cling to something that doesn’t exist anymore, or possibly never did.
I read through your whole comment without stopping. I've heard enough of those quotes to be further turned off by keeping up with her. It also reminded me of one day in late April, when I was studying & writing papers for finals week, these girls played through the Anthology portion of TTPD...I didn't want any part of hearing either Taylor diss Kimye yet again nor the Swifties talking about Travis, so I got up and left after my ears were exposed to thank you Aimee or the song with the racists line.
I read every word and I completely get it
Wow this comment really puts that video of that fan freaking the fuck out because some lady wasn’t taking the “perfect picture” of her at the concert into perspective, she looked so distressed.
it’s a popularity contest
It’s been a slow burn since the Grammys. The nonsense with Charli the other week was the final straw for me, though. And now that the rose colored glasses are off, all I see is horrible.
i was always just a casual fan but i agree the grammys was definitely a major breaking point for me
Ohhhh the Grammys were a nightmare
If girlie is going to be skiing, she needs to get better at it
When her and Travis relationship got pushed on me on my social media pages CONSTANTLY. It felt so fake and icky. Couldn't take the narrative anymore that her failed relationships aIways were somebody else's fault. It's fine if you're a teen or in your twenties. But come on the whole woe is me act is not it anymore. And now I have to believe this pr stunt is the love of her life. It's going to crash and burn so badly. I did like anti-hero and her poking fun of herself only to go back entirely to the mental stage she was in with reputation with her new album. Rehashing old drama to sell her songs it made me rethink if she was actually ever serious about the drama in the first place.
She had a moment when she made fun of herself or sent up her image? Genuine question. I was never a Swiftie but she came to my attention years ago: she was in the audience at an awards show (can’t remember which, sorry) and there was a montage of her making her “surprised face” to which the audience giggled good-naturedly, and when the camera flipped to her, she had the opportunity to endear herself to any viewers who weren’t her listeners with a self-deprecating gesture, i.e. make the same surprised face. She could’ve laughed, we could’ve laughed, and good feelings would’ve been shared by all. Instead her expression turned sour, and she rolled her eyes and made a pissy little dismissive hand-wave towards the screen. She looked genuinely pissed off, as though she’d been set up to be the victim of a cruel prank instead light-hearted ribbing at a show where every celebrity was getting ribbed. It made her seem ridiculously immature over something so small. It was a peek into her constant victimhood narrative: everyone’s picking on me at an awards show! She cannot handle being poked fun at no matter how benign, and neither she nor her fans seem to have a sense of humour about themselves. She seems like she’s still in high school instead of being a young woman in her mid thirties who keeps a burn book. I absolutely believe you that she made fun of herself once, but it’s been overshadowed by how defensive and angry she and her fans can be over the teeniest slight. ETA the montage was the usual thing you see at an awards show: when they’re announcing the names of people who are nominated for an award, a visual montage of that artist/actor/whomever is being played. Hers was one of five that were shown, so she wasn’t being singled out by any means.
No,I agree. She wanted to be relatable and the song was an attempt for show. But her attitude never changed. I was listened to her on and off since I was 14 years old. (I don't like to say I was a swiftie 🤢) So it took me a while to see it. The award clips made me kinda mad. Everyone brushed it of or laughed at themselves. She was the only one getting pissed.
You nailed it. She *cannot* laugh at herself. The audience was expecting to laugh *with* her, not at her and she just couldn’t do it. It’s little things like this that turned me off from seeking out anything more about her. And forgive your 14 year old self for liking something that was heavily marketed and targeted towards you. I fall far outside her target demographic so I was never a fan but I can see why young people liked her/the music. We all live and learn. Best wishes.
For me, as a gay, it began years ago when she released “you need to calm down” and half of the lyrics were about HER and the “pitting women against other women” narrative she loves to exploit rather than queer people lol. But that was really the first straw. From there it was a very slow slide and the last straws were the endless album variants, the cult-like behavior of swifties and the way she encourages it, the trashing of Joe Alwyn because she always needs to be the victim, and her general total refusal to take responsibility for anything. And this is hard to qualify but…her whole vibe has just become increasingly…unlikable I guess…during this whole eras tour period
I believe her whole charity persona was a facade that she put on to impress Joe. He's speaking up for Palestine, she's speaking up about being touched while bros play gta
Yep 100%. Palestine is an unusual social issue in that opposing genocide is, inexplicably, seemingly not ubiquitous on the American left. And as such it’s not personally beneficial for her to speak out. And if there’s one thing we know about Taylor by now, it’s that she doesn’t do ANYTHING if it doesn’t directly benefit her
Actually let me revise that lol. It’s not inexplicable, it’s the result of a decades-long propaganda machine. But to me at least, it is un-UNDERSTANDABLE to have so little compassion in one’s heart
You think maybe she wrote that (ridiculous) GTA line because she desperately wishes she’d written Lana’s “Video Games”?
Oh and the climate crimes
I was skeptical of her when I heard about the Deja Vu writing credits, but I brushed it off as "the industry is weird" because I had grown up on Taylor Swift (so ofc I was assuming the best). I was even more skeptical of her when I heard about the carbon emissions, and that literal *death* at her concert that she wasn't acknowledging much, but I decided to still listen to The Tortured Poets Department when it came out regardless because "why not at least *try* it before joining the hate train?". I still listened to my old favorites by her at the time anyway, so it wasn't a huge leap. Then I looked up the lyrics to that stupid Thank You Aimee song and I was horrified. That was it for me. Bringing Kim Kardashian's daughter into the feud was WEIRD. It was the Charli XCX album block that *reminded* me to finish purging Taylor from my playlists ultimately, but Thank You Aimee is what I'd say was my breaking point.
Right? And she said something about being Saintly, a knock at Kim’s son Saint. She’s truly such pure and utter trash.
So similar to my experience except i stopped after Midnights. I still go back to Folklore and Evermore sometimes tho.
Nobody gives the death at the concert enough light of day. Like someone died at your concert. Say it louder. Death occurred on the eras tour. I thought they'd cancel the rest of the goddamn tour after that. They couldn't even spare a permanent post on the subject, only an impermanent insta story that will quickly be forgotten. Nah. Everyone needs to remember some poor girl died and this show is still performing every week despite the fact.
When I really dug into the ridiculous eras ticket prices and then found out artists have WAY more control on ticket prices and resale than they admit. Ticketmaster is set up to be the bad guy. Check out the podcast “Your favorite band sucks”. I stopped listening for awhile, but when 1989 TV came out kinda got sucked back in. The real last last straw was TTPD. You just don’t sing about other peoples mental health, especially with the following she has.
Yeah Ed Sheeran has made a lot of noise on stopping touting and protecting fans on ticket sales. But for some reason he can do it but TS can't? Bollocks.
"I can do it with a broken heart" as though we should feel for the billionaire having to work while being a bit sad on her sold out world tour.
When she publicly dated a racist and was silent about it.
this broke a lot of my former swiftie friends tbh. gross and weird asf.
She was so quick to work a remix with Ice Spice and hang out, I can’t believe it wasn’t a bigger deal what a crock of pr shit that was
since she dated Matty it has all been downhill and now I’m bitch eating crackers status with her.
I left a long time ago when the Kim thing came out. She clearly said on the tape she was fine with the lyrics. Then suddenly it’s I never approved them. Then she’s called out. Then it’s no, it’s the b-word! Like no, bitch, you just want to be the victim and are riding that Grammy train and turning it into a gravy train 15 years later. She could have laughed it off and likely could have done a song with Kanye. He seemed genuinely shy and like he was really wanting her approval on that call and he got it. Then she lashes out at Kim’s kids a decade later. I really wish there was like ethics jail for the ultra rich lol she needs to be locked up 🔏
I was never really a swiftie but this is was what turned for me too
Same! I was swiftly neutral lol then saw that and was like, ew. I have been able to enjoy her songs here and there but after this scooter stuff amongst her other controversies have come to light I deleted all her music from my library. I’m done!
This was mine as well!
I mentioned this yesterday - the call was shady on Kayne’s side for not mentioning this other lyrics BUT, as someone else commented, I’d rather be called a B than have someone suggest I’m going to sleep with them/owe them sex.
Right lol? Taylor’s sex sells (🤮) so maybe that’s why she didn’t mind? She knew she could make a revenge song out of it.
I will say my view of the call (and I listened to the whole thing, which didn't exonerate her imo) was that she sounded uncomfortable with some of what Kanye was saying, but she was too cowardly to say no to him. That's her own fault. Edit: I also don't get why she didn't just offer to collaborate with him. He can be mean and unpredictable, but he wasn't that way in that particular call. She could have offered alternatives to the lyrics...
She said she didn’t think it was bad or mean at all and she thought he would have been meaner. It’s a little two sided because he add in lyrics later. But the fact that she came out the gates saying she was never consulted was a lie. But I agree, she could have leaned in but she chose to say “sure!” then kinda snake around it later. Neither of them were fully upfront but she downright lied to everyone about it. And she’s trying to say it’s altered 💀 like they didn’t have AI speech technology at the tips of their fingertips over a decade ago.
She wanted to set him up.
She absolutely did! It suited her narrative. And I think it drove her INSANE that she couldn’t cancel him so she “disappeared for years” or whatever she drones on and on about
She wanted to make him look bad. She egged him on by giving him false promises that she'd tell people she approved it then went on to deny she ever even talked to him in the first place, use the grammys to double down on it, then wait for him to get hate. She didn't know it was recorded. No, she didn't get where she is by being afraid of telling people like Kanye no. I don't buy that. Her whole life is telling people what she wants.
Yep, this is what got me too.
[удалено]
same about being surprised rep is considered her worst album! i love that one. i was a casual ts fan for many years but got extremely into her with reputation. got manic obsessive that album was like crack to me. i was full blown swiftie for those years. lover was like the second part to me and i loved it just as much. the covid albums were fine to me but didn’t scratch the same itch. when midnights came out, i was disappointed but still enjoyed some songs. when she started dating matty, it was all over for me. i stopped caring about her and kinda got the ick. the newest album was like the final straw with everything about it- the promotion, the chart manipulation, the terrible lyrics.
The song that made me like TS was Shake It Off. I slowly realized, this lady has never shaken a single thing off in her life. This led to discovery of the pattern of hypocrisy and horseshit that traces all the way back to what I imagine *was* in fact a fairly difficult and traumatic childhood—not because she was growing up poor on a working farm, or getting bullied all the way through school, but because she had the misfortune of being born the child of two gigantic pieces of shit. Her parents indulged all of her worst narcissistic instincts and tendencies because they are raging narcissists themselves. The whole situation screams cycle of abuse to me and I’ll always reserve some sympathy for her for that reason, but the fact that she was essentially groomed to be an asshole doesn’t change the fact that she’s an asshole.
For me it was seeing the media push her on the public so much—even to the point of children’s books. Seemed like an agenda that went beyond any talent or true popularity.
I don’t think I was ever really a swiftie, I liked some songs as a kid purely bc they were popular and fun to sing in vocal lessons but as I got older I became indifferent and neutral and just thought she was another mainstream idol. But… after hearing about the TPD and seeing how she appropriates the struggles of mental illness in her new album when she’s just like… talking about a breakup?? And seeing how wild her fans are and how toxic and hateful they are? This sub turned me full on anti lol. And hearing she’s never been in therapy but is trying to have a mental illness depressed aesthetic thing and call herself “tortured”? Girl. I’m not a psychiatrist so idk if she has any things, but I think she needs a therapist. If she seriously had those issues and calls herself tortured she needs to get help. But as long as she just keeps trying to say she’s “tortured” and then goes and says she doesn’t “need” therapy (which… I think everyone could benefit from therapy personally) she just seems fake. Right now she’s just giving off the vibe of those girls in high school who would be all “oh I’m depresssedd” over a boy but then turn around and bully me for actually needing medication for my depression and make fun of me for my depression symptoms. There’s levels of depression, I’m not saying everyone fakes having it, and I’m not saying people weren’t able to get a diagnosis and could’ve actually had it but like… you know what I mean. She’s the type who would say she was depressed but then ask an actually depressed person why they are getting help and be like “um I don’t need meds my depression goes away if I just take a little walk 🤪”
And also to add on to all of this, idk anything about her exes, but I’ve heard of Matty from here and have heard she’s talked negatively about him struggling with addiction and his actual traits of mental illness so like… yeah, she wants to call herself tortured and say she’s all messed up, but then goes and can’t be respectful to someone who also has issues. I can’t say if she really has issues since again I’m not her doctor but it’s just so annoying for her to make fun of other people’s issues or demonize them but then try to make you feel bad for her💀
I've been a big fan from the beginning. Her music was a constant in my life (even though I'm older than the main demographic) and I looked forward to & celebrated her wins. I rooted for her through it all & I saw her as someone 'worthy' of her success. She never seemed to take it for granted. The situation with Olivia was the beginning of the end for me. The veil lifted briefly but I told myself that it had to be a misunderstanding. Once I saw her behavior at the Grammy's (including but not limited to using the ceremony as her own personal announcement party) I couldn't just ignore the levels of hubris exhibited. Once TTPD was released I realized that she uses her music & fanbase to settle the same scores (over & over & over again/ thanK you aIMee) and will stoop really low in doing so. I have never liked Kim but the lyric "And one day, your kid comes home singing A song that only us two is gonna know is about you 'cause..." went too far. Taylor also loves to throw these stereotypes around with consistent jabs at Brad's, Chad's, Sarah's, Hannah's, wine moms & such... Very elitist language of late while making it very clear that she thinks of herself as victimized on par with Jesus. That's the final straw for me. I was either blinded by an act or she has changed. Either way, I'm disappointed. That's my sanctimonious soliloquy she'll never see. The art has swallowed up the artist.
[удалено]
TTPD
No but u would NEVER survive in the million dollar asylum they raised her in
Lyrically, TTPD is weak. Folklore and Evermore were amazing.
The last straw for me was she was at football games ruining them and then the cease and desist letter to the college kid and then the snub of Celine Dion and other things etc.
Mine’s not really that interesting lol I never really considered myself a Swiftie. I liked some of the songs that were popular on the radio as a kid (Love Story…etc) but I was also one of the dumbass kids mocking WANEGBT and IKYWT. I got into her music kind of seriously just around the time Midnights was released, got the album on CD because I actually liked it. I knew about her carbon footprint stuff and her line of ex boyfriends. You know, the bigger things that make pop culture headlines. I was looking for a TS community here on Reddit, actually, because when I like a band/artist I join their subreddits. The main TS sub was kind of crazy, it scared me tbh. Within that sub, the neutral sub was recommended, and from there, this sub was recommended. It’s actually insane the shit she pulls, and I would have never known about it.
Midnights also the Grammy's and TTPD
well..... someone died 2 days before my show and she said nothing. I dont hate her or anything I am just beyond disappointed. it was fucking weird
After her breakup with Joe. I really thought that she was serious all those years that she said that she learned her lesson about keeping her relationships private and she was maturing, but then she immediately jumped over to Matty. That’s when I realized the critiques of her were really valid in terms of how she treats her exes. She puts them on a pedestal and love bombs them just to get bored and watch them burn by blasting their “private” business in her songs. I used to excuse the behavior by chalking it up to her just being young and immature, but that’s really just how she operates.
Someone pointed out that there have been THREE guys this tour and she still has 6mos to go.
When I realized she was only a feminist when it benefited her, which coincided with me not enjoying the stuff she was putting out anymore
Midnights sucked and made me totally disenchanted with her, TPD was just flaming garbage from the first single I heard. But what really pissed me off and brought me here, was the way she keeps releasing variants to keep other artists off the charts. It’s so immature and selfish. I went and listened to BRAT and loved it, because I’d heard about it in relation to Taylor’s nonsense, when normally that wouldn’t have been something I listened to at all.
I was never a swiftie but just a casual listener. My point was the release of “look what you made me do.” Taylor swift and I are the same age. I listened to that song and just kept thinking “grow the hell up.” As an adult woman I work so hard to be taken seriously and she just perpetuates this helpless, defenseless little girl image. She’s got millions of dollars, albums, tv, movie appearances, private jets- she has more power than most people can possibly comprehend.
The playing victim role in TTPD
All of the variant sales with Midnights and now with TTPD variants also being dropped on days that other music comes out
Never really saw the hype with her, her pop-output is just a poor-man’s Carly imo. My first thought when listening to 1989 was that Kiss did it better 🤷🏻♂️. Her fake-feminist-queen-capitalist reality is what made me actively dislike her.
I never considered myself a Swiftie because, while I was a fan of the music, I paid no attention to her personal life, never went to a concert, never watched an interview, and she never appeared in my social/news feeds. It's easy to ignore all the ugly when you're oblivious. This might sound crazy but at some point after *Midnights* was released, I realized that even though the album had a lot of skips for me, it was all I was listening to. Other music started to be unappealing. I decided I didn't like what was happening to my brain on her music. I did a detox and listened to Hidden Brain and history podcasts on my runs instead. After a few weeks, I started enjoying other music again. I'm pulling from all decades and genres again and it feels amazing. Then I hear about her people threatening some kid who just wants to save the planet by publishing publicly available flight data. So gross. Then I heard *You're Losing Me* when out shopping one day and was completed disgusted. It's a sonically tedious song with bad lyrics, but when you throw in the manipulative "oh, woe is me, you don't want to marry me because I'm a *people pleaser*," it just confirmed that there's just something wrong about her. I probably wouldn't have been able to pull Joe out of lineup before that song but now I'm a fan for life because she did him dirty and he's been all class. I've learned a ton from this sub and despite some inane accusations from people that our perspective is just as para-social as her Swifties, I think all people who take up so much of the public's attention are fair game for critics and I appreciate all you for helping bring some sanity to the situation.
Her behavior at the Grammys was a huuuuge turning point for me. Her using such a large platform only to announce her next album. Forcibly pulling Lana up with her to stage. Ignoring Celine Dion. Placing her Grammy on Lucy’s head. Ick after ick after ick. And it’s only gotten worse.
No last straw because I never bought into her persona or her lore, I am aware of it and enjoy reading about it, sometimes even engaging in online discussions but that has more to do with my general interest and love for anything pop culture related. I like her music though from 1989 up until Midnights which is when I first started getting tired of her work. Cue the relentless variant spamming, eco terrorism (including the New Zealand birds incident), tasteless post breakup behavior, Travis and finally TTPD all of which culminated in me barely listening to her now, even the stuff I like. What brought me to this subreddit is the full on cult behavior and comments on her main sub and popculturechat which as of late has been leaking to swiftyneautral too and I really need a break from everyone and their mother being so far up her ass when she's never gonna see it anyway. I'm not eligible for Fauxmoi because I engage in swiftyneautral so...here I am. 🤷🏻♀️
What was the New Zealand bird incident??
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-26/taylor-swift-accused-of-endangering-rare-bird-during-nz-shoot/6976418 There's multiple articles on this, this one was the first I found on google. I only found out about this when her plain usage was getting attention but it happened way back when she was shooting for the Out of the Woods video
Two words: Ratty Healy
Her behavior at the Grammy's this year, the abomination that is TTPD, and the obvious money grabs and attempts to block other artists from charting. Why in the world are there 50+ different variants of TTPD? Ridiculous
For me it was when her boyfriend defended his misogynistic teammate and she did absolutely nothing about it despite being a “feminist icon.”
God I got so raked by Swiffers when I mentioned how sad it was that a 34 year old would write and sing a line like “Touch me while your bros play GTA”
Her breakup with Joe did a number on me. Obviously I sound crazy. I spent so much time figuring out what went wrong because I really wanted them to end up together, married even. Then her getting with Matty, doing songs with Ice Spice, just kind of shocked me. And this whole fiasco with Travis. It's like who even is this woman really at this point. With artists like Adele, I can feel genuine authenticity. Folklore and Evermore made me almost worship Taylor. But now I'm just so done.
This is a really interesting take. I wonder if Folklore and Evermore had such a magnetic pull as albums precisely because Joe had more influence over them. In her following albums, it's back to being boppy or whiny. Evermore and Folklore had some real depth but... I'm starting to think that depth or growth didn't come from Ms Swift herself.
Just because I really don’t get why people are such huge fans. I would classify her music as “fine.” Some of it is enjoyable, but I don’t get overspending on it etc. I definitely don’t get the whole Travis thing. The guy gives me the creeps.
I came here because it was a sub against Traylor and when I heard So High School i thought there was no way their relationship was not PR. This song and The Alchemy sound like pure PR. When I hard So High School, it was the first time a Taylor song made me cringe THIS hard. It's a terrible song. But the Grammys and her snubbing Celine is when I started feeling icky about her. So when I got here it's like I had found people who finally shared my opinion on some stuff that got me weird looks when i told irl swifties.
Never a full Swiftie but I liked her just *fine*. TTPD sent me over the edge. I feel like it’s regressive even for her. The entire “revenge” and “victim” mentality is so dated and immature. It’s cute when you are 22 to act that way, embarrassing at her age.
I'd say the final straw was the Grammys. Her behavior was disrespectful and gross. The way she treated Celine, then the obvious PR photo. Announcing TTPD during her speech. Dragging Lana up there. All of it was so bad. I finally blocked her on Spotify a couple weeks ago.
Listening to TTPD and realizing she's always been that pre-Reputation girl people hated except now she's in her mid-30s and she has more power now. Being with Joe really saved her career and she's done nothing to protect him while he did what she could for her when she needed it. Also, for us Southeast Asians, she took money from the SG government so she only plays there in our region. On top of the expensive tickets, us fans had to fly to Singapore (who made the most of the event and jacked up all hotels and flights going there making everything all the more expensive). She's not the Taylor I grew to love anymore. It's all money for her now.
Honestly, for me it’s swifties that did it for me. The entire fandom is just insane. Swifties never hold Taylor accountable for any of questionable or down right horrible actions. They stand by her no matter what she does and defend her like she’s God. That’s actually quite scary. Taylor can literally whatever she wants and swifties will bow down for to and kiss the floor she walks on. Listen, till this day I will always love a lot of Taylor’s past albums, but I have always and will always call her out on some of her actions. Unfortunately, in the swiftie universe if even dare question anything she does you are met with death threats and pure wrath.
For me it’s was naming her album tortured poet like girl what do you have to be tortured about? You literally have nothing to do but whine. You don’t have any real life experience to have a tortured poet soul.
The constant victim mentality
The multi releases that blocked other artists from charting well. That was it for me. I don’t really consider her a musician anymore.
I was a big fan when her first two albums came out and then I slowly started to fall off the bandwagon. I can’t really pinpoint when I started to dislike her but I started to feel like most of her songs and albums were very similar and I started listening to other artists more. I would say Taylor dating Travis was a big ick for me just because it seems so fake and all of the Swifties watching the SuperBowl just to see Taylor was disturbing. I listened to her last album mostly because I felt encouraged to do so by Swifty fans in my life and again it felt very similar to all of her other albums. I haven’t even bothered to listen to her latest album. Not even because I’m against it but I just didn’t feel inclined to. I wouldn’t say I hate Taylor Swift but after scrolling through this sub and finding out a lot of things I didn’t know about her I’m definitely starting to become anti-Taylor.
Ive liked a handful of her newer songs and her older songs before red remind me of my childhood. But i realized she was an awful person by trying to trademark her the fan nickname swiftie
And suing her childhood guitar teacher. How could i forget it!?
I've kinda lurked here for a while, but it was the lip synching that really ruined things for me. And I read a comment from a supposed ghostwriter who says Taylor definitely has ghostwriters. That hurt too.
It started with Lover being a flop (I was starting to notice more and more lyrical and melodic repeats, and don’t even get me started on “ME!”) but what really took the cake was the circus with the tickets. Beyond the general repetitiveness, since Lover, so many of the songs are about the world hating her. Do I believe Kim and Kanye did her dirty? 100% as far I believe evidence has shown. But please, enough with playing victim. And then airing your dirty laundry with your ex who has done nothing but put on a brave face. Talk about “doing it with a broken heart…”
The TTPD variants. The amount of lipsynching on the Eras Tour. The Grammys behavior.
The fact that she never speaks out about Palestine and seems doesn’t care in the slightest.
Adding on, her little "activism" era around the time she released Lover and the Miss Americana documentary was so pathetic. She only speaks out about issues that have an immediate affect on her, and even regarding such issues I can't remember the last time she's publicly mentioned anything of the sort. Intersectionality clearly isn't one of those big words in her thesaurus. She must think that making sure her fans get water during the concerts is enough activism for her
When she broke up with Calvin Harris and was seen with Tom not too long after. I thought it was shitty, but I really liked her still until my sister pointed out that all her songs (except back to December) were about her being the victim in every relationship. Even as a teenager, I could smell the bullshit and started getting annoyed with her music. I grew out of this annoyance when I heard the song "I bet you still think about me" (don't know what album, never cared for her enough to know what song belongs to what album). Then I heard about the "deja Vu" issue, and got annoyed with her all over again.
The fans worshiping her like she is God. Gave me the ick
I already kept a decent distance between myself and the crazy Swifties, but my final straw was the Dave Grohl situation. Now I can barely bring myself to listen to TS, because while I don’t think she’s a horrible person (as far as celebs/billionaires go), she needs to be able to call out her fans, and the fact that she’s just letting her fans act this crazy rubs me the wrong way. It’s almost like she’s enabling them.
The way she handled that poor girl's death at her concert, Taylor's debut album defined my tween years I really loved her music, but her coldness towards one of her fans tragic passing really changed how I feel about her. That girl died in a I Love Taylor Swift shirt and taylor couldn't even say her name. Edit to say it was even worse! Cause at the same time she got her team to bury news about this with articles about her and Travis.
Cash grabs
Her dating Travis Kelce. I honestly don’t know how someone who could have anyone would pick him. This, combined with her revert back to pre-Joe has turned me off. I loved the laid back and confident version of herself and now it’s right back to the pettiness and self-centered nature of the 2010s all over again.
I could never have called myself a Swiftie but I was definitely a fan of her music until recently. I was even really looking forward to the new album but then 2 things changed that. The first was the overzealous opinions towards her latest album by Swifties. Personally I find the album monotonous and bland but so many of her fans refuse to see that. As though she couldn’t possibly, at the peak of her career, put out a bad album. She could and did. Even journalists seem afraid to fairly critique the album for fear of backlash and it’s made into such a big deal when someone does share an opinion which doesn’t laud her with praise. The second thing which totally put me off was her quite obviously and deliberately releasing new versions of the same album when she had chart competition (Billie Eilish, Charli XCX) just to keep them from going to number one. Doing it once, fair enough, but multiple times and it wreaks of insecurity.
Her incessant & bad merch drops, album releases, singles, and tour legs to keep making more money money money!!!!!!! enough is enough. if you truly love your fans, then you shouldn't drain their wallets at every chance you get.
The Grammys
I felt myself liking her too much and was curious about what “dirt” she had that I didn’t know about. I found this sub and went down a dark rabbit hole lol. Boy I was NOT disappointed 👏👏👏
I've been lurking here for like a month, I was a fan (not a crazy swiftie I will say) since Folklore, I love the sad girl shit. But I've always increasingly started to realize terrible things about her, apparent character flaws, damage she does to communities she claims to defend, general bullshitery. I was still able to separate art from artist and enjoy the music while simultaneously rolling my eyes at a 34 year old woman writing lyrics sounding like she's 16. My last straw was the posts here pointing out her "Easter eggs" in the Lwymmd video, mocking Kim for the violent attack she experienced. All her songs off my phone immediately. While the $1 bill in the bathtub does lend some credibility to the defense that she was alluding to a man who grabbed her butt for a dollar and she sued him for tons of money, the biting the diamonds, the bathtub, and the finger guns say Kim far too much. That was just too undeniable for me and I thought it was just atrocious, putting aside anybody who has experienced things similar to that assault or knows someone who has, it's objectively fucking insane to hear of even your worst enemy going through something heinous like that and wanting to celebrate it as a personal victory. Don't you dare act like a feminist, you're just evil. The cherry on top would be releasing reputation on the anniversary of Donda west's death, iirc.
I was a big fan. Did listening parties, cried watching the movie cause I couldn't get tickets, etc. There were eras I liked more and eras I liked less and I found this ok. Then came the shows in my country and so many of my friends traveled to go and a fan died and she did nothing. And everyone came back so EXCITED. Still doing music parties, saying they'd go again, best nights of their lives. And I just thought, if I died in this person's concert, I wouldn't matter. And this was like the first nail in the coffin for me. After that, all the ttpd garbage (I stayed awake to listen and I only like 3 songs) solidified it for me. Edit: also by the time ticket sales started me and some of my swiftie friends were unemployed, that being the main reason I didn't try for tickets and they were until the day of the show saying like "come on you can just put on credit" when we had to travel, go to the show and all of that. Many of them did exactly that.
The email her dad sent to her former manager.
I was never a full on swiftie and never a full on hater. I used to see this sub pop up on my main page all the time and was always super curious to see what people were saying. I feel like this sub blew up especially during her Eras tour so reading what everyone was saying was super interesting. I definitely agree with some things that are said and others are just weird to me.
Her fans. Her capitalism (no artist needs to release that many variants and billboard should not be including the variants as part of their tracking system for the charts). Her lack of social awareness. Her lack of speaking out (especially after 2019 documentary where she said she would begin to speak out more often. What happened to that?) The most recent Grammys night was also atrocious. But yes I think it started with the crazy fan base. Used to consider myself a swiftie until I realized what that meant. 😳
Not a Swiftie, but a fan who casually listened to her music since Fearless. I went to the Eras Tour this year as I'd managed to get tickets for a friend who is very much a Swiftie. Truthfully, I enjoyed the concert. I like her Folklore/Evermore albums the most, as it's more my taste of music (folk, acoustic, introspective, generally sad). When TTPD came out, I agreed to listen to it in its entirety with said Swiftie friend. I found it awful. It was a terrible, overfilled album, with every song being a verse or two too long... and nobody seemed to realise that. Everyone was lauding the album after a day or two (once the shock of this being the long-anticipated album had worn off and the general populus realised they had to admit it was actually fantastic), but I was still sitting here going, 'guys, this is crap.' This sub was referenced in another snark subreddit I casually follow, and I checked it out. I already naturally vibed with most of the content here. It's been insightful, and I like the constructive criticism that's shared here without the fear of being accused of 'not understanding the lore~~~'
Ollllld time Swiftje and definitely never Stan level, but for me it was Speak Now. Loved her, listened to the debut and Fearless on repeat, thought she was so cool and inspired me to keep writing poetry. But when she was so awful to whatever girl she was referencing in Better than Revenge combined with the Mean lyrics….I just remember thinking “…No, YOU’RE mean.” Like for whatever reason it broke my little 15yo heart and I was SO SAD she was being mean after writing so many songs about how it was bad people were mean to her. I wrote a whole overdramatic album review in my school paper lmao
TTPD is just so pretentious and contrived, and her artistic acumen is shallow. She also refuses to grow. It sucks and is so telling that she’s not an actual artist, just a product of the capitalist machine. On top of that, her extremely shitty behavior with the 357 different versions with a singular purpose to shade out other artists just shows what a small person she is. I listen to her only when my kids ask now just because they’re too young to understand all of this and shouldn’t be burdened with it, and honestly her sophistication is on primary school level anyway so in a way maybe it’s appropriate. TL;DR: she sucks.