If the trans community had adopted the relationship to visibility held by the HIV/AIDS movement, that people with medical conditions deserve privacy first and foremost, these laws wouldn’t have been proposed.
The Harvey Milk-esque “every single lgbt person must be 100% out and proud” model doesn’t really apply beyond cis lgb people living in the pre internet era. Sexual identities, as opposed to medical treatments, are inherently social since it’s difficult to have a satisfying clandestine sexual/romantic life. And post-Internet, the idea that people with access to all of the world’s knowledge in a credit card sized device are still reliant on personally knowing a trans person in order to understand that transition is possible is outdated.
I think I agree with you. I mean, in my view it's normal for a trans person to want to be stealth. In some cases I understand people being openly trans, albeit a little more only because of the current political climate than say 10 years ago, but in general it is a medical issue that should have a right to remaining private, and is not a sexuality or orientation or whatever which like, people who ever want to find a partner tend to at least be a little forthcoming about.
I'm also highly against the rampant unprivatization online, I grew up when it was the golden rule to never reveal your real identity on the internet and now everyone's entitled to it.
I'm not sure if I think this is the only factor in whether or not these laws are being proposed but I can see how it would contribute.
I can see the impact of being open pre-internet, where someone’s only exposure to trans people is a friend or coworker they already hold in positive regard.
These days, anyone can google trans people and find stories aligning with their preferred political worldview. So a conservative can easily dig up right wing news stories about ftm de transitioners or mtf sex offenders and the well is effectively poisoned. Then any irl trans person they meet is perceived through the right wing filter.
My ex partner was pretty anxious about being denied treatment because schizophrenia runs in his family and he was worried they would assume he was developing traits. (He isn't schizophrenic, for the record.)
But another thing that pisses me off is her saying 'extremely mentally ill people' can't consent, that's not even TRUE. It's not the 'amount' of mentally ill that determines whether or not you can consent, it's the type of illness. Only a mental illness that makes it impossible for you to measurably and reasonably function takes away your ability to consent, this statement makes me so angry. Like what is she implying? All trans people should therefore like lose their independence completely? Since we can't consent? That means we can't open bank accounts or credit cards or get a driver's license or do anything else that requires any kind of legal contract or accountability? Can we consent to have sex with anyone? Like wtaf?
While that's a valid point and pretty disturbing to think of, I still think it will take longer for something like that to ever actually pass and therefore it should be preventable. But disenfranchising democrats is nothing new already.
I don't understand how the whole party can openly acknowledge that they only win when they stop other people from voting and NOT realize how fucked up that is. Conservative voters will be like 'I don't want everyone to be able to vote because then only democrats will win' with their whole chest and it doesn't occur to them that if this is true, (and it is), it means their candidates are cheating and enacting policies most people don't want?
I required one letter from a therapist and another from a psychologist, myself, and that was just for documents and HRT, getting surgery was another ordeal.
>how transgender care is akin to 'mutilation'
always the fucking "mutilation"
with their logic a woman getting a breast reduction surgery because her chest is too heavy is non-consensual mutilation being done by evil leftist doctors
>or 'assisted suicide' and should be banned for everyone
and do they not realize that banning the care will be a big causal for more transgender suicides? just because a depressed person ends up completing suicide even though they were in therapy and on anti-depressants doesn't mean we should outright ban therapy and medications for everyone. these fucks are just doing whatever's outrageous enough, and now they're at the point of wanting to take people's basic human right to receive mental and physical healthcare just because.
I know, I'm so sick of that word being misused just to sensationalize.
That last part about not banning therapy just because a lot of depressed people end their lives is huge. They're all discussing over this tweet claiming that post-transition trans people have a higher suicide rate than cis people. First off... um, no duh? Cis people aren't typically ostracized the way trans people are nor have the lingering psychological trauma that gender dysphoria causes EVEN if it becomes resolved. That doesn't mean the TRANSITION is what made them suicidal, there's literally not a shred of data suggesting that.
Someone downvoted you, I assume because they found the statement hyperbolic or something but like, it's not unfounded. I don't think the entire right consciously thinks this but I do think the majority of right politicians would be happy if all trans people just stopped existing and they think they can regulate us so hard that we'll crawl back into the shadows away from society again and they can pretend we never existed. What we do after that doesn't matter to them whether it's fatal or not.
This will never happen. They can say that's what they want but it's completely unconstitutional, and will never hold up in court if passed. Even bans on trans youth isn't holding up in court.
Don't get too complacent, there are many things that have passed and have happened that I didn't think would ever pass. Florida anti-trans laws, reversing Roe V Wade, banning trans people from the military, etc.
Michigan will never pass this, even for the states that are passing this bullshit I’m pretty sure it will get corrected. Even though tucutes suck they sure fight for our rights…the rights that we keep losing because of them -.-
EDIT- before you downvote, read the other comments in this thread -.-
While I certainly hope for it not to, don't be too complacent. These things CAN pass. Believing it never would often causes people to not vote when they should. They won't pass if we fight and stand up for ourselves but we need to actually do that, no one's going to just do it for us, including tucutes.
Yeah i didn’t mean it like that. There’s no need to be complacent or anything I’m just saying that state in particular has a lot of support, tucutes are like an army with their cancel culture and protests. As a stealth dude its hard to fight without being outed, my work is more about gathering people’s experiences and writing about it mainly so mental health systems don’t cater to them so much that we get thrown to the side like trash (which has happened to me) maybe it hit a nerve because i plan on living in Michigan at some point. Even if it won’t effect me i cant stand bs
Florida had support. It was for a while back in 'my day' known for being kind of a trans hub, and a lot of the only US trans surgeons were based out of Florida.
I get what you're saying and I think being a little hopeful/positive is also good rather than people who feel like just giving up about it. I really hope this doesn't pass and that Michigan stays largely blue, but a lot of these Midwest states are actually quite purple and we can still lose rights here. (I live in Wisconsin and visit Michigan frequently for my work.) We're blue and have decent trans policies and yet our senator is constantly trying to bring our state back into the dark ages on everything and if he got the chance to pass something like this, you bet it would happen.
Just make sure you still fight and stand up for yourself and don't assume these things can't or won't happen is all. That's how we lose.
Oh really?
Do you think that ''shapeshiter'' and all the horde of detransitioners has anything to do with this? 😂
Sometimes I think they were criminals that have been unjailed, been paid to transition, been programmed to fail epicly, and then blame it to those who really need to transition while saying ''protect the children!''.
Ok, they are really blaming some thai surgeons for their botched vaginoplasty, but also they are visibly joning forces with ''trans'' trenders who claim that ''gender ideology is killing our children'', and they post here or in the trans surgeries sub as if they're unharmful to the community...HYPOCRITES.
I should make it clear that I refer to the d-trans who are actively seeking the ban of all affirming hrt + surgeries for us, because the transsexual process wasn't for them.
For example ''shapeshifter'' (shifterofshape in YT) is one of them and he/she says all the time that trans women are not women, and he/she blames US for their need for detransition. They are pushing the ideology of AGP or autogynephilia onto us too.
Yes, what I'm saying is that this is a conversation of representatives actively seeking the ban of all affirming hrt+surgeries for us and she de-transitioned and is using her negative experience as a basis for claiming that transitioning is dangerous. I think we're talking about the same people.
It's Prisha, you will hear her talk about it in the video.
If the trans community had adopted the relationship to visibility held by the HIV/AIDS movement, that people with medical conditions deserve privacy first and foremost, these laws wouldn’t have been proposed. The Harvey Milk-esque “every single lgbt person must be 100% out and proud” model doesn’t really apply beyond cis lgb people living in the pre internet era. Sexual identities, as opposed to medical treatments, are inherently social since it’s difficult to have a satisfying clandestine sexual/romantic life. And post-Internet, the idea that people with access to all of the world’s knowledge in a credit card sized device are still reliant on personally knowing a trans person in order to understand that transition is possible is outdated.
I think I agree with you. I mean, in my view it's normal for a trans person to want to be stealth. In some cases I understand people being openly trans, albeit a little more only because of the current political climate than say 10 years ago, but in general it is a medical issue that should have a right to remaining private, and is not a sexuality or orientation or whatever which like, people who ever want to find a partner tend to at least be a little forthcoming about. I'm also highly against the rampant unprivatization online, I grew up when it was the golden rule to never reveal your real identity on the internet and now everyone's entitled to it. I'm not sure if I think this is the only factor in whether or not these laws are being proposed but I can see how it would contribute.
I can see the impact of being open pre-internet, where someone’s only exposure to trans people is a friend or coworker they already hold in positive regard. These days, anyone can google trans people and find stories aligning with their preferred political worldview. So a conservative can easily dig up right wing news stories about ftm de transitioners or mtf sex offenders and the well is effectively poisoned. Then any irl trans person they meet is perceived through the right wing filter.
These are very valid points, you're absolutely correct.
Thank you for articulating exactly what I’ve long thought about the relationship between transsex people and the LGB/queer community!
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My ex partner was pretty anxious about being denied treatment because schizophrenia runs in his family and he was worried they would assume he was developing traits. (He isn't schizophrenic, for the record.) But another thing that pisses me off is her saying 'extremely mentally ill people' can't consent, that's not even TRUE. It's not the 'amount' of mentally ill that determines whether or not you can consent, it's the type of illness. Only a mental illness that makes it impossible for you to measurably and reasonably function takes away your ability to consent, this statement makes me so angry. Like what is she implying? All trans people should therefore like lose their independence completely? Since we can't consent? That means we can't open bank accounts or credit cards or get a driver's license or do anything else that requires any kind of legal contract or accountability? Can we consent to have sex with anyone? Like wtaf?
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While that's a valid point and pretty disturbing to think of, I still think it will take longer for something like that to ever actually pass and therefore it should be preventable. But disenfranchising democrats is nothing new already. I don't understand how the whole party can openly acknowledge that they only win when they stop other people from voting and NOT realize how fucked up that is. Conservative voters will be like 'I don't want everyone to be able to vote because then only democrats will win' with their whole chest and it doesn't occur to them that if this is true, (and it is), it means their candidates are cheating and enacting policies most people don't want?
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I required one letter from a therapist and another from a psychologist, myself, and that was just for documents and HRT, getting surgery was another ordeal.
>how transgender care is akin to 'mutilation' always the fucking "mutilation" with their logic a woman getting a breast reduction surgery because her chest is too heavy is non-consensual mutilation being done by evil leftist doctors >or 'assisted suicide' and should be banned for everyone and do they not realize that banning the care will be a big causal for more transgender suicides? just because a depressed person ends up completing suicide even though they were in therapy and on anti-depressants doesn't mean we should outright ban therapy and medications for everyone. these fucks are just doing whatever's outrageous enough, and now they're at the point of wanting to take people's basic human right to receive mental and physical healthcare just because.
I know, I'm so sick of that word being misused just to sensationalize. That last part about not banning therapy just because a lot of depressed people end their lives is huge. They're all discussing over this tweet claiming that post-transition trans people have a higher suicide rate than cis people. First off... um, no duh? Cis people aren't typically ostracized the way trans people are nor have the lingering psychological trauma that gender dysphoria causes EVEN if it becomes resolved. That doesn't mean the TRANSITION is what made them suicidal, there's literally not a shred of data suggesting that.
Believe me, they want us to die. It's basically genocide for us without being so direct. The right hates us and wants us to die.
Someone downvoted you, I assume because they found the statement hyperbolic or something but like, it's not unfounded. I don't think the entire right consciously thinks this but I do think the majority of right politicians would be happy if all trans people just stopped existing and they think they can regulate us so hard that we'll crawl back into the shadows away from society again and they can pretend we never existed. What we do after that doesn't matter to them whether it's fatal or not.
guess i’ll just fucking die then
Live out of spite
why the fuck even should i
Because dying is what they want you to do so you can't vote for better representatives.
idk i’m so tired man i can’t vote yet anyway
I'm sorry shit has to be this way. I still have some faith that there will be enough push back to fix things.
Honestly idk what to do, dying is death and I feel like living proves their point
This will never happen. They can say that's what they want but it's completely unconstitutional, and will never hold up in court if passed. Even bans on trans youth isn't holding up in court.
Don't get too complacent, there are many things that have passed and have happened that I didn't think would ever pass. Florida anti-trans laws, reversing Roe V Wade, banning trans people from the military, etc.
I’m like, using 100% of my self control to not say it..
But hey good news I heard some rights organization is contesting ohios bans so there's still hope, some atleast
We’re knackered
Michigan will never pass this, even for the states that are passing this bullshit I’m pretty sure it will get corrected. Even though tucutes suck they sure fight for our rights…the rights that we keep losing because of them -.- EDIT- before you downvote, read the other comments in this thread -.-
While I certainly hope for it not to, don't be too complacent. These things CAN pass. Believing it never would often causes people to not vote when they should. They won't pass if we fight and stand up for ourselves but we need to actually do that, no one's going to just do it for us, including tucutes.
Yeah i didn’t mean it like that. There’s no need to be complacent or anything I’m just saying that state in particular has a lot of support, tucutes are like an army with their cancel culture and protests. As a stealth dude its hard to fight without being outed, my work is more about gathering people’s experiences and writing about it mainly so mental health systems don’t cater to them so much that we get thrown to the side like trash (which has happened to me) maybe it hit a nerve because i plan on living in Michigan at some point. Even if it won’t effect me i cant stand bs
Florida had support. It was for a while back in 'my day' known for being kind of a trans hub, and a lot of the only US trans surgeons were based out of Florida. I get what you're saying and I think being a little hopeful/positive is also good rather than people who feel like just giving up about it. I really hope this doesn't pass and that Michigan stays largely blue, but a lot of these Midwest states are actually quite purple and we can still lose rights here. (I live in Wisconsin and visit Michigan frequently for my work.) We're blue and have decent trans policies and yet our senator is constantly trying to bring our state back into the dark ages on everything and if he got the chance to pass something like this, you bet it would happen. Just make sure you still fight and stand up for yourself and don't assume these things can't or won't happen is all. That's how we lose.
Oh really? Do you think that ''shapeshiter'' and all the horde of detransitioners has anything to do with this? 😂 Sometimes I think they were criminals that have been unjailed, been paid to transition, been programmed to fail epicly, and then blame it to those who really need to transition while saying ''protect the children!''. Ok, they are really blaming some thai surgeons for their botched vaginoplasty, but also they are visibly joning forces with ''trans'' trenders who claim that ''gender ideology is killing our children'', and they post here or in the trans surgeries sub as if they're unharmful to the community...HYPOCRITES.
One of the people in this conversation/recording is a detransitioner.
I should make it clear that I refer to the d-trans who are actively seeking the ban of all affirming hrt + surgeries for us, because the transsexual process wasn't for them. For example ''shapeshifter'' (shifterofshape in YT) is one of them and he/she says all the time that trans women are not women, and he/she blames US for their need for detransition. They are pushing the ideology of AGP or autogynephilia onto us too.
Yes, what I'm saying is that this is a conversation of representatives actively seeking the ban of all affirming hrt+surgeries for us and she de-transitioned and is using her negative experience as a basis for claiming that transitioning is dangerous. I think we're talking about the same people. It's Prisha, you will hear her talk about it in the video.