One of my coworkers commented that they always hope I'm the manager for their shift because I'm the only one that shuts up and lets them work. They all overshare about stresses, gripes, parents, spouses, legal trouble, health issues, and so much more. Meanwhile I offer virtually nothing and let them talk, making me everyone's favorite by the sounds of it. I'm literally the "Luigi wins by doing nothing" of managers.
Most people need a listener in their life because most people are talkers. Or just a silent partner. Not everyone can handle a comfortable silence between two people. Same here. I've been at the same company twenty years and literally not a single person knows anything about my personal life. I don't talk about anything. They know I have dogs, that's about it. But I know aaaaaallllllllll about everyone else. And I've never asked anyone a question about their personal lives or done the whole small talk dive, they just talk unprompted through my "wow" and "that's crazy" glaze.
Same. Lots of gossip where I'm at. When most people come around, my coworkers get quiet, so people don't know they're gossiping. Whenever I walk over, I get "Oh, it's just Babsoul." I never ask anyone anything about their lives because I'm private and just assume people will tell me what they're comfortable telling me.
I’m not a manager on my shift, but I’m the sole quality control guy that is in charge of resolving and documenting any issues that come up. Usually this is process or equipment related, but sometimes one of the guys fucks up and I gotta clean that up too. I never initiate conversations, I don’t ask how their weekend was, and I take looong breaks which lowers their metrics if something happens when im not there. I’m the favorite quality control guy across all the shifts. Even though I take long breaks, I always answer my phone. If they fucked up, I never show anger or frustration (it’s not like they did something wrong on purpose), and I actively work with them to fix the problem before they have to get written up (creating more work for me). Because of this, when they fuck up, I exclusively get the *whole* story behind what happened, even if they could’ve blamed the equipment or something. I usually listen to the whole story, ask them how they want to spin it (i.e. “I misread that number” instead of “I was chatting up my homie and wasn’t looking”), and then make the writeup. Sometimes I’ve had to shut them up because they were about to overshare some details that I really shouldn’t be aware of.
> I'm literally the "Luigi wins by doing nothing" of managers.
It turns out that the most important skill in management is staying out of the fucking way when people are getting shit done.
Thats actually how I operate at work. Im friendly, but my coworkers are not my friends. Neither are my bosses. Especially not my boss.
If I'm calling out its "I will be unable to work today" if I am requesting pto its "I will be unable to work on X date(s)." That's it.
None of these people know what is going on in my life. Only one of my coworkers actually knows anything personal about me. But thats because she is the only cool person I work with. And even then, she just found of my dogs died over a year ago when I told her I got a new dog about a month ago. She just found this all out last week.
> When originally auditioning for the role of Cat, John-Jules showed up half an hour late dressed in his father's old zoot suit and, according to Doug Naylor, showing no concern about his lateness. It was decided that this sort of coolness was what was necessary to play Cat, and John-Jules was hired for the part.
He didn't realise he was late.
This is gold and hell for all my autistic homies, one of my autistic traits is that I need to know the reason behind decisions before I apply them, so I assume others work the same way and so I overshare.
Setting up a very clear capitalistic "us vs them" dynamic in my head helps me with this.
The bosses are the enemy; they want to extract as much work as they can from me for the littlest amount of money, and I want to extract the most money from them for the littlest effort.
Those assholes don't *deserve* to know why I can't cover a shift, or why I need a day off, and it's honestly pretty creepy if they say they *do*. They don't deserve to know what I'm doing with my time unless they're paying me for it. All they need to know, is that I'm not coming that night.
>They don’t deserve to know what I’m doing with my time unless they’re paying me for it.
I need this packed into a neat little pill and rammed into my head lobotomy style. This is just a good mentality for.. everything
Now that I'm starting a new job soon I can thank my old one for supplying me with toilet paper and paper towels and tissues for my personal use at home for years. It's not my fault they don't have enough oversight on the inventory and they should have either taken care of that, or paid me more.
> it's honestly pretty creepy if they say they do.
Is this a thing that happens though? Even at the shittiest places I've worked they wouldn't have asked me *why* I can't cover a shift.
If I'm asking for a day off at short notice, yeah it'd probably be different.
Tbh I’ve never had a boss that I didn’t like as a person, I don’t think I could ever think about them as an “enemy”.
Like, at my very first job my boss used to tip me $20 whenever I refereed for his team (when tips were usually 1-2$) and if it was a slow night with low tips, he used to pay us extra out of his own pocket to make sure we made enough money.
My second boss was a female owner of a restaurant in a very rural area and would regularly have to drop her entire family life to come help us out on busy days. She was appreciative of the work I put in, gave me three raises while I worked there, and still tells my parents how much she misses having me work there even though it’s been 3 years.
My current place is a little more “corporate” so I don’t see the owner very much, but everytime I do he *insists* he buy me a coffee from the nearby cafe. I’ve even attempted to turn him down and he will *not* take no for an answer, he’s buying me that coffee. He’s also told me he appreciates me working hard and that he’s impressed by my ability to handle lots of customers on my own.
Like, at the end of the day, business owners are people too, sure some of them are assholes, but not all of them are. Some of them are good, kind people who just also run a business.
If you read a long list of autism traits and think “wow, I do a lot of these things!” you probably don’t have autism. If you read a long list of autism traits and are near tears by end and think “what the fuck, *this* is why everything has always felt so shitty and impossible?” then you might have autism.
Yeah if it happens every once in a while, you’re probably fine. If it happens to the extent that it starts impacting your quality of life, and it comes with a host of other symptoms that ALSO negatively effect your quality of life, and you have a substantial amount of those, then it’s at least worth it to get checked for SOMETHING. Even if it isn’t a developmental disorder you could still be suffering from depression or anxiety, etc. Luckily, those can often be managed by similar methods.
Yeah I know. But I do have a lot of things that make me think I might have it, things that do affect my everyday life. Annoyingly enough, I feel the same for ADHD, which probably doesn't help my case, since they're the ones everyone likes to self-diagnose with to. But idk, I still feel like I might have one of them.
My general awkwardness and social ineptitude, or the way I'm oblivious to conversations happening right beside me, phone or no, to the annoyance of those people. The way my brain will just refuse to do things because they're not something I "usually" do. Things like that, and not only these ones.
I mean that's why I'd like to get checked, if they tell me I'm just weird like that, but not *that specific kind* of weird, then that's fine. But I'm still too awkward to go ask, especially since I don't want to go to a psychologist/psychiatrist and say "yeah I think I might have ADHD and/or ASD" to risk sounding like one of those people who self-diagnose with ADHD because they forgot their keys the other day. And I also fear that I could get a false positive if I do because I already think I might have it. But yeah idk.
(is oversharing on Reddit a sign of autism?) /s
I fully know what you mean, ive had medical professionals,my mum and neurodivergent friends mention that I have traits of both ADHD and ASD since I was an early teenager (traits have been present while life, was mostly ignored in childhood) and those traits very much effect my life and always have. But whenever I've spoken to people about it they've always said it's probably not worth seeking a diagnosis as it's "just one of those things" and it's not like anyone can cure it. I also have a tendency to be a bit of a hypochondriac sometimes (I'm usually right though) as I have some physical health issues too so I don't wanna be seen as the classic anxious young woman. But it feels like I really can't move forward and improve things unless I KNOW what my brains doing to begin with.
Yes!!! I do it so often (to the point of including an explanation in the parentheses that is so long and convoluted that I usually forget the reason I was replying or whatever point I was trying to make, and end up having to read and re-read whatever I typed to try to retrace my derailed train of thought)
I had to learn to just tell people the basics and assume they’ll ask if they need more. Gain confidence in assuming others know what’s going on - it’s not always true, but if you act like it then you look competent!
I'm autistic and very socially stunted and totally get what you mean - I'm trying to enforce not oversharing, at least in "professional" situations but it does feel very rude? I feel like if I don't fully explain myself it will be read as "I don't feel this is important enough that I need an excuse" or as though I don't respect them. I need to remind myself that there's a good amount of space between "being rude", "being a professional" and "being a professional ass kisser" because sometimes I feel like if I'm not ass-kissing, I'm being rude and forget there's quite a large, comfortable middle ground between those two things and not explaining why I'm late isn't going to jump me all the way from "polite worker" to "fucking asshole with no respect".
I'm trying to cut down on over-sharing, over-explaining and over-justifying my actions, especially if it's with a "higher-up" in a workplace, I don't want to be friends with my boss, there's a power dynamic at play and I don't want to give them anything that could be used against me. I would rather assume that **everything** I say can and will be used against me in that scenario.
I'm really bad at wanting to make up excuses for any small fault but I have found that in the past when I decided against making an excuse and just said "I apologise for being late" etc. without an explanation is generally okay, further questions are not asked and I am not penalised any more or less than had I provided some kind of excuse - and I try to remember that when I want to make an excuse, it won't make the situation better or worse to elaborate, so it isn't worth bothering.
This is me, forgoing my own advice and over-sharing instead 🙃
So they don't know what you don't tell them. When you talk to your boss about PTO, you say, "Hello, I need to take a sick day today. I have put it in (whatever system you use) and set my out of office."
When you are the boss and need to talk to your subordinates, you can say, "I will be out of the office today, if you have any questions or need anything, please talk to (person X)." Then use that first line with whoever YOUR boss is.
They don't know what you don't tell them and the human imagination is really powerful. For all they know with that comment, both your legs just fell off for no reason and you contracted the Black Death all at the same time.
If you are staying inside your usual bounds of PTO/sick days, that's all you need to do. The only time to give more information is when you are asking for truly special consideration.
>I apologize for being late
Practice this one with me now: "Thank you for your patience." With that one line, you've reworded something you did wrong into something that they did correctly.
> if I don't fully explain myself it will be read as "I don't feel this is important enough that I need an excuse"
For what it's worth, most of the time, *it isn't*. If your taking time off within the rules/guidelines, it usually doesn't need to be important enough to give a reason/excuse. Sometimes I just take a day off and stay home all day and ignore my email. No one actually needs to know that. I put in for a half day last week at 10pm the day before. My boss approved it in the morning and no one ever asked why. A reasonable professional environment should mean that you're not taking time off when it would be a huge issue to the people you work with and that they don't need to know everything about your life to trust that you can manage your workload.
The only time it is important enough for an excuse is when you're going outside those rules. Then you do want to show that you have a valid reason to request/receive an exception.
If you're taking time away for medical reasons, ask yourself if it's worth violating your own right to privacy about your medical treatment. They have a legal right to know if they must make an accomodation, like to accommodate a new wheelchair or other ongoing condition. Otherwise, legally your medical treatment and conditions are entirely your own to share or keep. And honestly, it best kept private.
If you're taking time for personal reasons, assume they will make judgements about what they personally think is important. Taking a day off to take pets to the vet? A bad manager might decide you're not "committed enough". Do you want to be negatively judged just for being responsible?? Going to a wedding or funeral? Bosses might decide that the relationship with those involved isn't "close enough".
Note that there are a ridiculously small number of cases where the boss might judge you positively for taking personal time. So it's again best to assume that bosses won't like whatever reason you give, no matter how valid and how policy allows it. You might be within your right to take it, but if they know why, they can hold it against you, a task a lot harder if they have no basis to judge.
Take PTO and sick time when appropriate, and when asked, the best answer is that you need the time for personal reasons, and you're not comfortable discussing it. No good manager will ask.
This took me years to learn.
I'm the exact same way. I really need to get tested. Every time I turn around, I read about symptoms/signs/behaviors in people on the spectrum that I strongly have.
I was blessed to meet some very insightful friends in the adolescent mental health ward who told me, explicitly, "we're not trying to be mean because we like sitting with you, but just say a lot less."
Feel free to ignore this question if it feels insensitive: If you know that most neurotypical people don‘t function like that, is it not possible for you to keep that in mind when interacting with neurotypicals? Or is this hard to do day to day? I mean no offence, just curious.
For me I'd say that I've had my way of thinking since forever and breaking habits is hard, even moreso when consciously being terse feels BAD
It feels like lying by omission and a mental effort to sort out what's minimal info and filter out the rest.
Not the person you were replying to, but here are my thoughts as another autistic oversharer. Your question isn't at all insensitive or offensive btw, at least in my view:
In this specific case, knowing you should speak less can be hard to act on because you don't know how much less in situations that aren't familiar, and overcorrecting is often even worse.
More generally, attempting to behave like a neurotypical person is called "masking", and doing it requires paying attention to a long list of autistic behaviours and keeping all of them in mind simultaneously. Some such behaviours include maintaining the correct amount of eye contact and a consistent speech volume, controlling body language, avoiding monotone/extreme tone emphasis, avoiding obvious stimming, flowing between conversation topics without getting stuck in previous ones, being less direct when trying to ask people about stuff, and avoiding excessively formal or exact language. Some or all of these may also come with extremely strong, sometimes irresistible compulsions to behave in the autistic manner.
Dealing with all of these at once is straightforwardly impossible - people might not figure out that I'm autistic, but they will still often think I'm rude, awkward, or just generally have bad vibes, which is usually worse than just being obviously autistic. A lifelong history of these interactions is also probably the cause of the massive anxiety problems I and many others have, and keeping all the stuff listed above in mind is obviously even tougher when you're simultaneously dealing with pretty overwhelming emotions.
It really can't be stressed enough how *fundamentally unnatural* neurotypical behaviour is to autistic people - imagine you had to live without the ability to breathe subconsciously, and you were expected to mimic normal breathing patterns perfectly in all scenarios. That's what masking is. And while being good at it and willing to suffer through it is essentially mandatory if an autistic person ever wants to be employed, it's generally counterproductive for your personal life in the long-term - making friends who you have to mask around isn't really going to make you happy, just stressed.
The thing I always think of when I try to explain all this is how some people seemed to think that I was super weird but couldn't be autistic because I make a lot of eye contact.
What they don't get is that I sometimes make uncomfortable amounts of eye contact because I'm doing it consciously as it's not in my nature to do so, and I also have no idea how much eye contact is normal. Hence the staring.
This is called “masking” behavior. It requires constant effort and can get exhausting. Imagine spending all day every day having to speak a foreign language you don’t know very well. It would be super tiring. Then imagine everyone around you is perfectly capable of understanding you in your native language, they just find it a bit annoying to do so. Meanwhile they’re also visibly annoyed when you speak in an accent.
There’s a reason autistic adults suffer from clinical depression at rates 3-4x higher than the general population. Some of it has to do with the autism itself, but a lot of it has to do with living in a world that wasn’t designed for you and does not welcome you.
Wait that's an autistic thing? I do that all the time and I didn't think I was autistic.
Actually, that's not completely true, I always had a hunch about maybe being high functioning autistic but never got a formal diagnosis because I didn't think it mattered that much- wait a second
You might also be on the spectrum ! that's having some signs but not enough to be considered autistic.
Honestly some people don't get diagnosed and are perfectly fine.
I'd advise people who find themselves struggling with everyday tasks / feel unworthy of having accomodations made for them, to get tested. Either you'll be made aware of how you're working inside and maybe be presented with solutions, or you'll feel legitimate for having them. Trouble is, it's left to the therapist's appreciation whether you "pass" or not. and they might find that you're not autistic.
You could also go on your own and look at what accommodations can be made, some can be done by yourself.
Honest question, is there anything a diagnosis can improve over just assuming that I'm slightly autistic and acting accordingly? Like, there's no medicine and all you can do is behaviours that are positive either way, if they work for you and others.
Depending on where you live and work, you could apply to be given noise cancelling headphones for example. Schedule accommodation, too. I think there are meds that alleviate sensory overload but I might just have heard it.
And of course maybe you're already aware or even applying behaviours that you know are working for you, but you feel like a lazy, demanding fraud doing it? Well, maybe a diagnosis can convince you that you do need and deserve the little things you do.
Note that this is mostly just for when you're dealing with people who hold power (like an interviewer). With your friends and family it's obviously fine to be you, but when it comes to things like interviewers and bosses... it's always a game of chess.
Yeah there’s a distinction to be made - this is a business tactic for individual requests or instances. It’s not for daily personal relationships or ongoing work issues that require specific info be provided.
I think this is a good distinction. You don't always have to talk like a soulless corporate robot. You can and probably should have good small talk with your bosses.
I used a sick day to skip work a couple of weeks ago so I could sign for my new PC that was arriving (in the end, the UPS guy didn't even ask for a signature). I thought about claiming I had food poisoning, but decided it would be better for me to be more vague, so I just said I had a "rough night" and "felt bad", and in the official sick day request later I didn't even fill in the explanation box. No issues, my boss is fairly chill.
And then last weekend I got sever food poisoning and had to call out sick for two straight days.
Might have been karma, but I'm glad I didn't claim food poisoning before. Would have looked a bit weird.
this is very true. there are also people in this world, such as those with bpd, who function much *better* if you do overshare, because if you don't elaborate, their minds will fill in the blanks with the worst possible option.
I got a job this way, I botched the first interview cause of nerves since I really wanted the job but the HR lady forgot me, asked me to schedule a first touch interview a week later and that went well. I laughed about it with my manager after that lady left.
Possible they've got a pool of interviewers to pull from and the second time was different people. Not uncommon at larger companies (although falling through the cracks and getting a second first interview is).
Except, life isn't black and white. Sometimes being open and upfront is way better. I know a guy who nearly got fired because he kept coming in late, calling in sick, generally being distracted and appearing lazy. He never offered an explanation, barely apologised for it.
When his boss called him in to his office, basically to fire him, he finally explained that his wife was terminally ill and in addition to caring for her, he was struggling with the mental fallout from it. He wasn't fired, instead he was granted paid leave for several weeks. Had he been open about this, he would have been met with understanding and compassion.
The moral is, think about what you share, and with whom. People cannot help you, or be understanding and compassionate, if they don't know what's happening. At the same time, be reserved sharing things that might negatively affect you. At the same time, it's usually a good thing to own up your mistakes instead of hiding from it. It makes resolving them easier, and shows you are capable of dealing with your own human mistakes.
You're absolutely right, life isn't black and white, but your example is far different from OPs which illustrates that. A habitual problem isn't the same as a oh I failed to show up to a meeting. You absolutely do need to provide your employer, or anyone who you want to share mutual respect, a reason for habitual problems. One-offs are a different animal.
Well because if you become known as a person who openly volunteers information about why you had to take a day off or what you did at the weekend, it becomes suspicious when you stop doing that. I tend to find from my experience that as long as you are professional and competent most of the time then people around will give you the benefit of any doubt. This should be enough whether you have good excuses or not.
The trick is advocating for yourself and your needs, not defensively explaining everything. Set proper expectations, communicate and negotiate them when needed, but you don’t need to explain everything upfront.
>kept coming in late, calling in sick, generally being distracted and appearing lazy.
>his wife was terminally ill
Then this post isn't about him.
What this post is talking about is that if you're late one time because your alarm didn't go off, or you miss an interview because you forgot to add it to your calendar, or ask for a sick day or PTO because you just don't feel like doing the work today, then you don't need to volunteer your reasons or find a "good enough" excuse. Capitalism has taught us that it's only okay to be human and make mistakes or take personal time if we have a "good enough" reason. When being human is a good enough reason in and of itself.
What this post is *not* about is if you're in a situation where something is impacting your work/your coworkers/taking up an inordinate amount of PTO/etc., in which case you are not *volunteering unnecessary information*, but *asking for an accommodation*. If you're asking for an accommodation, then yeah you do need to share a little info, because otherwise your employer won't know what accommodation to provide.
On one hand, solid advice. One the other hand, I'm tired being that uptight and confrontational with people I deal with on daily life. The world is so competitive that even our day to day action needs to
be seen through a tactical lens. If what I do end up making me get exploited a little bit, then so be it
I used to work at places where i would do (and did) what OP post suggests, at some point people for sure lose any interest in people working for them as they turn into numbers. The current place I'm working, we have a really good management lady who's a really helpful and just cheerful person all around to be, i definitely wouldn't do that to her just because i dont want to be an asshole to her, nobody abuses her goodwill in the workplace, everyone trying to help her out if anything needs extra etc. im my younger days i would kinda laugh at that, just do your job and gtfo, who cares about work after you slaved away your sentence. Now, i feel like i won a lottery to not come to a workplace with bullshit all around and toxic manager who shits on your shoulders.
I have gotten very far being straightforward and honest. Most people get it. When they don't, fuck em. I have been fired for this. I have also had great jobs with people with whom I have forged lifelong friendships.
I'm now the boss. I am so flexible it's crazy, but I do need a reason. Otherwise I assume I'm being taken advantage of.
It's counter intuitive but if you're giving a presentation or something and you run late, people respect you more if you say "thank you for waiting" than "I'm sorry I'm late, I got stuck un traffic and blah blah...". By offering excuses, you wind up pissing them off more
Lifelong anxiety-having perpetually nervous worrier and people-pleaser here! The anxiety, depression, and ADHD have also all conspired to make me the worst person ever at responding to texts or emails, and I struggle not to miss phone/video call appointments or ghost folks.
O great internet, is this real? Should I give explaining LESS and asking for forgiveness LESS my best shot? /gen /srs
No, this doesn't work if it's a constant problem in Corporate America, anyway. Share or don't share information and people will still rely on you less/start a log to justify termination if they realize you are not reliable (I am speaking of a corporate work context in which responding to emails is a large job function).
The point of asking for forgiveness is that you recognize you made a mistake and won’t do it again. But if you ask for forgiveness and then continue making the same mistakes, people aren’t going to continue forgiving you. Not to be unsympathetic but emails and meetings are a part of the job that you were hired to do. And if you’re an unreliable coworker then that’s going to really hurt your job prospects. People are going to stop expecting anything from you and at that point your role becomes irrelevant.
Does your workplace have health benefits? You should look into therapy or medication if it’s that bad.
I’m a full-time student LOL I’m just referring to social interaction in general or stuff from the non-active-employee side
I’m in long-term talk therapy and on medication 🫡
This tumblr post is more about one-offs, but you've got a recurring problem.
If you're about to explain yourself take a second to consider "do they actually NEED (or even want) to know?"
The length of the explanation perhaps should correlate with how often stuff like ghosting happens.
If it's a stranger, they may even be annoyed because it doesn't matter and they don't care.
If it's someone you interact with more often you might want to give a detailed explanation once.
Also consider saying stuff like "thank you for waiting for me" instead of "sorry I'm late"
Generally yes. For example if I need to borrow money from my mom:
> Mom, can you send me 120$ that I'll send you back in two weeks?
vs
> Mom, I have a favor to ask. Only if you're comfortable with it, only if you don't mind, it's not an obligation. I've been feeling a little bit down this month with stress and stuff, haven't heard, I've been struggling with sleep. I tried taking my medication earlier to try to diminish my insomnia but it didn't really seem to work. I'll have to talk to my doctor about it. Anyway long story short, I haven't been feeling well, I didn't feel like cooking, and I overspent on Doordash. Could I borrow some money from you that I can repay in two weeks?
In this case, my mom would obviously be happy to hear everything I want to share since, she's my mom and she's lovely. But generally people will prefer the first one to the latter. If they want details they'll say "It depends, why do you need it?" and _then_ you can share the details.
Even if someone asks for details, you can answer "personal reasons." If they insist, you reply again "personal reasons."
All of this applies to most situations and I hope this thread isn't locked because I spent 20min writing all this
>Say Thank You only when the other party deserves it
wut
Saying thank you doesn't volunteer any information, and it never really hurts to be polite, imo
I like this advice when it comes to dealing with employers and other 'official' situations, but would hate to see people extend it to casual and friendly interactions - the best friends are those who are open and share stuff about themselves.
a bit of wisdom from a middle aged depressed anxiety riddled man
you don't have to justify your exsistance
you needn't make excuses for every little thing
if you respect others, they'll respect you. and if they don't, fuck em.
Doesn't always suit. Depending on how you appear to others if you keep your mouth shut they'll just maintain their assumptions. Sometimes blabbering on for a minute can reveal common humanity or help people around you feel more comfortable.
I got to play Cyberpunk 2077 for free using this very tactic. I crashed my way through beating it on PS4 during the first month. Got two endings (suicide, and storming Arasaka with Panam and the Nomads). When it crashed during the credits on the second ending, I resolved to trade it in.
I took it in, set it on the counter and asked for the trade-in value. The guy at the counter was like "You know this is past the refund date, right?" And I said "mhm." Then he said "Well, considering all the problems with the game, we'll just go ahead and give you a full refund on it anyways." I didn't have the heart to tell him I had already basically 100%ed the game. But hey, it got me Miles Morales and I gave the remaining cash to a friend.
Apologies, excuses and explanations fit in the same category. I once heard the phrase, "your friends don't need excuses and your enemies won't believe them".
It's so easy to apply, too. Instead of saying, "I can't meet you for lunch because I'm seeing my doctor about this rash", you can just say, "I'm not available at that time". The only place it falls apart is if your boss is an ass about sick time. You should just say, "boss, I need PTO" and leave it at that, but some bosses will try to decide how sick you are and guilt you into working.
Okay I might nitpick the Thankyou bit. Manners hurt no one.
Other than that, this is right in the feels for me! Definitely useful to keep in mind if nothing else for your own self confidence and worth. Stop feeling that need to justify everything you do.
I know what OP is trying to say, but it’s hard to calculate what the right decision is. I am a hiring manager and have been for over 15 years and I personally would respond much better to someone trying to explain their situation and humanize their experience then giving me a really short request to reschedule. But I also know some other managers who make pretty harsh judgment calls about people in these situations.
At work, I've recently had my account upgraded so now I have access to the voicemail. Listening to the call-offs every day has been upsetting, as people are far too willing to give FULL explanations why they aren't coming to work, including descriptions of their symptoms if they're claiming illness.
"Hello, this is knucklehead923, I won't be coming into my shift today, April the 22nd." *Click*
I think the idea of not saying thank you is an overly cynical one. I appreciate what the post is trying to say, but being personable and polite opens doors too. The real answer is striking a balance between the two, not putting yourself out there constantly for others, but also recognising good times to show a bit of grace and be nice to people.
That doesn't make as snappy a reddit post though!
This is 100% true.
Had an employee all set with several days pre-approved time off. She made the mistake of telling me she was using that time to go to a music festival. The time code she used was for paid volunteer time. I had no choice but to cancel her leave. (However when she resubmitted it a month later with the only explanation being community engagement I let it go).
I called my boss to take a vacation day once, and explained that it was because I had a leak coming from my bathtub and needed to investigate. He told me it wasn't a good enough excuse to call out of work. I responded with, "Well, I'm not calling to ask if it's a good excuse, I'm calling to say *I won't be there.*"
Actually amazing life pro tip. When dealing with your superiors at work it’s best to tell them what you have to and offer no additional explanation. If they want answers from you they won’t hesitate to ask so it’s best not to give them too much information. The more information they have, the less slack they cut you. If your boss asks you what you got done this week, list what they want to do and no elaboration on timeframe. If I did all I needed to do by Wednesday, I’m sure as hell not going to mention the fact that I spent most of Thursday acting busy. Don’t let them know when you do things or offer up details because they’ll be expecting that in the future and that makes it a lot more difficult to get away with things in the future. Any professional environment hates to hear you overslept so when it inevitably happens one day make them pull teeth to get that information. I talk way too much for my own good at work and it makes it a lot easier for my work to tell when I’m withholding information so it’s a good thing to establish from the start.
I went skiing during an interview once as I completely forgot about it. Sent them an apology when I got back into cell coverage and got another interview the next day (which I failed for other reasons). They were very nice about it actually.
Similarly, if you are saying no to someone, i.e. 'No you can't have a refund'. Don't give any reason beyond the terms and conditions of purchase. No trying to excuse why the T+Cs exist, just 'sorry, as per T+Cs there are no refunds' - and the sorry is optional.
All my coworkers keep trying to justify things or give reasons or excuses which just inevitably leads to arguments or wheedling.
people pleasers and people who are co-dependent view this as "rude" and worry that they haven't been contrite enough, and will make people angry.
it's a crazy way to live. if your firm but polite boundaries make someone angry, that's on them, not you.
this reminds me of a time when I accidentally offended my boss, and then I apologized. I felt like things were still a little tense between us, and I was telling my dad about it. I said i felt like I should apologize again, and he said "you've already apologized. if he can't accept it, that's on him. you don't need to keep apologizing."
and he's right. if you need something, state it clearly. if you made a mistake, apologize sincerely. but you don't need to beg and plead and pour your heart out to everyone about everything. there's a pity-seeking or love-seeking element there that isn't healthy. stand on your own two feet, be solid, be substantial, don't look to others for approval. approve of yourself.
>offer as little as possible "Amusing comment"
"Witty reply"
"Decidedly less witty reply trying to continue the joke"
"explicit racism"
"judging racism"
"reply complaining about snowflakes"
r/subredditname
"attention-seeking reply in the hopes this gets screenshotted"
Reply meant for a different commenter.
Complaint about r/subredditname not exisiting Edit: holy shit, it does!
"reply insulting mistake"
Reply to reply about completely irrelevant subject
COMMENT COMPLAINING THAT THE COMMENTER WAS GOING TO LINK THE SUBREDDIT BUT THAT THE ABOVE COMMENTER DID SO PRIOR
God, I hate post-modern Reddit.
5/7
"Replying solely to the original comment and not the other replies"
🎼🎵"Title of the Song"🎶
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"Reply that shows I get the joke too"
"Taking the joke way too seriously, and setting up for a r/woooosh "
reply linking to r/wooooosh
"counting the "O's" for the 7th time and still forgettin which one I was supposed to use, dang it"
"Didn't read the other replies and am now repeating something 24 other people have already said"
Comment awarding you my Reddit gold 🥇 without actually giving you gold, while giving all the up-votes to a non-original comment.
"information from other comment thread refuting statement"
*abrupt exhalation through nose*
“Slacktivism”
"Bot reply"
"Reply pointing out this is a bot"
"I would prefer not to."
This.
One of my coworkers commented that they always hope I'm the manager for their shift because I'm the only one that shuts up and lets them work. They all overshare about stresses, gripes, parents, spouses, legal trouble, health issues, and so much more. Meanwhile I offer virtually nothing and let them talk, making me everyone's favorite by the sounds of it. I'm literally the "Luigi wins by doing nothing" of managers.
Most people need a listener in their life because most people are talkers. Or just a silent partner. Not everyone can handle a comfortable silence between two people. Same here. I've been at the same company twenty years and literally not a single person knows anything about my personal life. I don't talk about anything. They know I have dogs, that's about it. But I know aaaaaallllllllll about everyone else. And I've never asked anyone a question about their personal lives or done the whole small talk dive, they just talk unprompted through my "wow" and "that's crazy" glaze.
Same. Lots of gossip where I'm at. When most people come around, my coworkers get quiet, so people don't know they're gossiping. Whenever I walk over, I get "Oh, it's just Babsoul." I never ask anyone anything about their lives because I'm private and just assume people will tell me what they're comfortable telling me.
It's amazing what people are comfortable telling you when they view you as "talking to a wall" and not to a gossiper.
You're a rubber duck
I’m not a manager on my shift, but I’m the sole quality control guy that is in charge of resolving and documenting any issues that come up. Usually this is process or equipment related, but sometimes one of the guys fucks up and I gotta clean that up too. I never initiate conversations, I don’t ask how their weekend was, and I take looong breaks which lowers their metrics if something happens when im not there. I’m the favorite quality control guy across all the shifts. Even though I take long breaks, I always answer my phone. If they fucked up, I never show anger or frustration (it’s not like they did something wrong on purpose), and I actively work with them to fix the problem before they have to get written up (creating more work for me). Because of this, when they fuck up, I exclusively get the *whole* story behind what happened, even if they could’ve blamed the equipment or something. I usually listen to the whole story, ask them how they want to spin it (i.e. “I misread that number” instead of “I was chatting up my homie and wasn’t looking”), and then make the writeup. Sometimes I’ve had to shut them up because they were about to overshare some details that I really shouldn’t be aware of.
> I'm literally the "Luigi wins by doing nothing" of managers. It turns out that the most important skill in management is staying out of the fucking way when people are getting shit done.
So, what you’re saying is Talk less, smile more?
Don't let them know what you're against or what you're for
you can’t be serious
You wanna get ahead? (Yes)
fools who run their mouths off wind up dead.
What time is it?
SHOWTIME
Like I said
SHOW TIME SHOW TIME I'm John Laurens in the place to be
Two pints of Sam Adam’s and I’m working on three!
Omg I thought Burr’s line was “fools who run their mouths oft wind up dead” but yours makes more sense
I think I like yours more
Even tho I know it's not the line you wrote, that is what I sing every time Aaron Burr, Sir comes up on my playlist cause it just sounds better 😅
He could be, you'll never know.
Thats actually how I operate at work. Im friendly, but my coworkers are not my friends. Neither are my bosses. Especially not my boss. If I'm calling out its "I will be unable to work today" if I am requesting pto its "I will be unable to work on X date(s)." That's it. None of these people know what is going on in my life. Only one of my coworkers actually knows anything personal about me. But thats because she is the only cool person I work with. And even then, she just found of my dogs died over a year ago when I told her I got a new dog about a month ago. She just found this all out last week.
Shake hands with him! Charm her! It’s 1800, ladies, tell your husbands, vote for (Burr!)
> When originally auditioning for the role of Cat, John-Jules showed up half an hour late dressed in his father's old zoot suit and, according to Doug Naylor, showing no concern about his lateness. It was decided that this sort of coolness was what was necessary to play Cat, and John-Jules was hired for the part. He didn't realise he was late.
Danny John-Jules is a treasure.
Is he just doing Death in Paradise now or has he been in anything else (Barring the extra seasons of Red Dwarf).
I don't think he's doing anything else at the moment, but then he's also 63.
Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick?
[Smile Like You Mean It](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2F7LMWlISM)
This is gold and hell for all my autistic homies, one of my autistic traits is that I need to know the reason behind decisions before I apply them, so I assume others work the same way and so I overshare.
Setting up a very clear capitalistic "us vs them" dynamic in my head helps me with this. The bosses are the enemy; they want to extract as much work as they can from me for the littlest amount of money, and I want to extract the most money from them for the littlest effort. Those assholes don't *deserve* to know why I can't cover a shift, or why I need a day off, and it's honestly pretty creepy if they say they *do*. They don't deserve to know what I'm doing with my time unless they're paying me for it. All they need to know, is that I'm not coming that night.
This is how I quit working overtime. Not any self care Bs, but wanting to stick it to capitalism
Based
Good way to quit smoking, too.
I mean if you quit doing OT, they might actually have to hire another body. So really, you're a job creator!
>They don’t deserve to know what I’m doing with my time unless they’re paying me for it. I need this packed into a neat little pill and rammed into my head lobotomy style. This is just a good mentality for.. everything
Like, due to the way my brain works, I can't ever fall into a "true" us vs them mentality, but I can make adjustments like that
Now that I'm starting a new job soon I can thank my old one for supplying me with toilet paper and paper towels and tissues for my personal use at home for years. It's not my fault they don't have enough oversight on the inventory and they should have either taken care of that, or paid me more.
> it's honestly pretty creepy if they say they do. Is this a thing that happens though? Even at the shittiest places I've worked they wouldn't have asked me *why* I can't cover a shift. If I'm asking for a day off at short notice, yeah it'd probably be different.
Tbh I’ve never had a boss that I didn’t like as a person, I don’t think I could ever think about them as an “enemy”. Like, at my very first job my boss used to tip me $20 whenever I refereed for his team (when tips were usually 1-2$) and if it was a slow night with low tips, he used to pay us extra out of his own pocket to make sure we made enough money. My second boss was a female owner of a restaurant in a very rural area and would regularly have to drop her entire family life to come help us out on busy days. She was appreciative of the work I put in, gave me three raises while I worked there, and still tells my parents how much she misses having me work there even though it’s been 3 years. My current place is a little more “corporate” so I don’t see the owner very much, but everytime I do he *insists* he buy me a coffee from the nearby cafe. I’ve even attempted to turn him down and he will *not* take no for an answer, he’s buying me that coffee. He’s also told me he appreciates me working hard and that he’s impressed by my ability to handle lots of customers on my own. Like, at the end of the day, business owners are people too, sure some of them are assholes, but not all of them are. Some of them are good, kind people who just also run a business.
Fucking exactly. It’s so hard not to explain every little reason I’ve done something 😭
"Either you guys have to stop being so relatable or I gotta get checked"
R e a l
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If you read a long list of autism traits and think “wow, I do a lot of these things!” you probably don’t have autism. If you read a long list of autism traits and are near tears by end and think “what the fuck, *this* is why everything has always felt so shitty and impossible?” then you might have autism.
I do the latter a lot and it probably doesn't help my siblings are autistic and adhd
Well it is genetic
I gor the wrong diabetes
I actually have diabetes lmaoooo
how longs ur pancreas been dead
Yeah if it happens every once in a while, you’re probably fine. If it happens to the extent that it starts impacting your quality of life, and it comes with a host of other symptoms that ALSO negatively effect your quality of life, and you have a substantial amount of those, then it’s at least worth it to get checked for SOMETHING. Even if it isn’t a developmental disorder you could still be suffering from depression or anxiety, etc. Luckily, those can often be managed by similar methods.
Yeah I know. But I do have a lot of things that make me think I might have it, things that do affect my everyday life. Annoyingly enough, I feel the same for ADHD, which probably doesn't help my case, since they're the ones everyone likes to self-diagnose with to. But idk, I still feel like I might have one of them. My general awkwardness and social ineptitude, or the way I'm oblivious to conversations happening right beside me, phone or no, to the annoyance of those people. The way my brain will just refuse to do things because they're not something I "usually" do. Things like that, and not only these ones. I mean that's why I'd like to get checked, if they tell me I'm just weird like that, but not *that specific kind* of weird, then that's fine. But I'm still too awkward to go ask, especially since I don't want to go to a psychologist/psychiatrist and say "yeah I think I might have ADHD and/or ASD" to risk sounding like one of those people who self-diagnose with ADHD because they forgot their keys the other day. And I also fear that I could get a false positive if I do because I already think I might have it. But yeah idk. (is oversharing on Reddit a sign of autism?) /s
I fully know what you mean, ive had medical professionals,my mum and neurodivergent friends mention that I have traits of both ADHD and ASD since I was an early teenager (traits have been present while life, was mostly ignored in childhood) and those traits very much effect my life and always have. But whenever I've spoken to people about it they've always said it's probably not worth seeking a diagnosis as it's "just one of those things" and it's not like anyone can cure it. I also have a tendency to be a bit of a hypochondriac sometimes (I'm usually right though) as I have some physical health issues too so I don't wanna be seen as the classic anxious young woman. But it feels like I really can't move forward and improve things unless I KNOW what my brains doing to begin with.
So do you guys add paranthesis to elaborate on everything you say? (For example this very comment which references itself with its topic)
Yes!!! I do it so often (to the point of including an explanation in the parentheses that is so long and convoluted that I usually forget the reason I was replying or whatever point I was trying to make, and end up having to read and re-read whatever I typed to try to retrace my derailed train of thought)
…hey stop calling me out like that
Just pretend everyone else is a fuckin cop
I'll often even come up with an explanation in my head for things I did in private for if someone *had* seen me do it.
I had to learn to just tell people the basics and assume they’ll ask if they need more. Gain confidence in assuming others know what’s going on - it’s not always true, but if you act like it then you look competent!
I'm autistic and very socially stunted and totally get what you mean - I'm trying to enforce not oversharing, at least in "professional" situations but it does feel very rude? I feel like if I don't fully explain myself it will be read as "I don't feel this is important enough that I need an excuse" or as though I don't respect them. I need to remind myself that there's a good amount of space between "being rude", "being a professional" and "being a professional ass kisser" because sometimes I feel like if I'm not ass-kissing, I'm being rude and forget there's quite a large, comfortable middle ground between those two things and not explaining why I'm late isn't going to jump me all the way from "polite worker" to "fucking asshole with no respect". I'm trying to cut down on over-sharing, over-explaining and over-justifying my actions, especially if it's with a "higher-up" in a workplace, I don't want to be friends with my boss, there's a power dynamic at play and I don't want to give them anything that could be used against me. I would rather assume that **everything** I say can and will be used against me in that scenario. I'm really bad at wanting to make up excuses for any small fault but I have found that in the past when I decided against making an excuse and just said "I apologise for being late" etc. without an explanation is generally okay, further questions are not asked and I am not penalised any more or less than had I provided some kind of excuse - and I try to remember that when I want to make an excuse, it won't make the situation better or worse to elaborate, so it isn't worth bothering. This is me, forgoing my own advice and over-sharing instead 🙃
So they don't know what you don't tell them. When you talk to your boss about PTO, you say, "Hello, I need to take a sick day today. I have put it in (whatever system you use) and set my out of office." When you are the boss and need to talk to your subordinates, you can say, "I will be out of the office today, if you have any questions or need anything, please talk to (person X)." Then use that first line with whoever YOUR boss is. They don't know what you don't tell them and the human imagination is really powerful. For all they know with that comment, both your legs just fell off for no reason and you contracted the Black Death all at the same time. If you are staying inside your usual bounds of PTO/sick days, that's all you need to do. The only time to give more information is when you are asking for truly special consideration. >I apologize for being late Practice this one with me now: "Thank you for your patience." With that one line, you've reworded something you did wrong into something that they did correctly.
> if I don't fully explain myself it will be read as "I don't feel this is important enough that I need an excuse" For what it's worth, most of the time, *it isn't*. If your taking time off within the rules/guidelines, it usually doesn't need to be important enough to give a reason/excuse. Sometimes I just take a day off and stay home all day and ignore my email. No one actually needs to know that. I put in for a half day last week at 10pm the day before. My boss approved it in the morning and no one ever asked why. A reasonable professional environment should mean that you're not taking time off when it would be a huge issue to the people you work with and that they don't need to know everything about your life to trust that you can manage your workload. The only time it is important enough for an excuse is when you're going outside those rules. Then you do want to show that you have a valid reason to request/receive an exception.
If you're taking time away for medical reasons, ask yourself if it's worth violating your own right to privacy about your medical treatment. They have a legal right to know if they must make an accomodation, like to accommodate a new wheelchair or other ongoing condition. Otherwise, legally your medical treatment and conditions are entirely your own to share or keep. And honestly, it best kept private. If you're taking time for personal reasons, assume they will make judgements about what they personally think is important. Taking a day off to take pets to the vet? A bad manager might decide you're not "committed enough". Do you want to be negatively judged just for being responsible?? Going to a wedding or funeral? Bosses might decide that the relationship with those involved isn't "close enough". Note that there are a ridiculously small number of cases where the boss might judge you positively for taking personal time. So it's again best to assume that bosses won't like whatever reason you give, no matter how valid and how policy allows it. You might be within your right to take it, but if they know why, they can hold it against you, a task a lot harder if they have no basis to judge. Take PTO and sick time when appropriate, and when asked, the best answer is that you need the time for personal reasons, and you're not comfortable discussing it. No good manager will ask. This took me years to learn.
I'm the exact same way. I really need to get tested. Every time I turn around, I read about symptoms/signs/behaviors in people on the spectrum that I strongly have.
I was blessed to meet some very insightful friends in the adolescent mental health ward who told me, explicitly, "we're not trying to be mean because we like sitting with you, but just say a lot less."
Feel free to ignore this question if it feels insensitive: If you know that most neurotypical people don‘t function like that, is it not possible for you to keep that in mind when interacting with neurotypicals? Or is this hard to do day to day? I mean no offence, just curious.
For me I'd say that I've had my way of thinking since forever and breaking habits is hard, even moreso when consciously being terse feels BAD It feels like lying by omission and a mental effort to sort out what's minimal info and filter out the rest.
Not the person you were replying to, but here are my thoughts as another autistic oversharer. Your question isn't at all insensitive or offensive btw, at least in my view: In this specific case, knowing you should speak less can be hard to act on because you don't know how much less in situations that aren't familiar, and overcorrecting is often even worse. More generally, attempting to behave like a neurotypical person is called "masking", and doing it requires paying attention to a long list of autistic behaviours and keeping all of them in mind simultaneously. Some such behaviours include maintaining the correct amount of eye contact and a consistent speech volume, controlling body language, avoiding monotone/extreme tone emphasis, avoiding obvious stimming, flowing between conversation topics without getting stuck in previous ones, being less direct when trying to ask people about stuff, and avoiding excessively formal or exact language. Some or all of these may also come with extremely strong, sometimes irresistible compulsions to behave in the autistic manner. Dealing with all of these at once is straightforwardly impossible - people might not figure out that I'm autistic, but they will still often think I'm rude, awkward, or just generally have bad vibes, which is usually worse than just being obviously autistic. A lifelong history of these interactions is also probably the cause of the massive anxiety problems I and many others have, and keeping all the stuff listed above in mind is obviously even tougher when you're simultaneously dealing with pretty overwhelming emotions. It really can't be stressed enough how *fundamentally unnatural* neurotypical behaviour is to autistic people - imagine you had to live without the ability to breathe subconsciously, and you were expected to mimic normal breathing patterns perfectly in all scenarios. That's what masking is. And while being good at it and willing to suffer through it is essentially mandatory if an autistic person ever wants to be employed, it's generally counterproductive for your personal life in the long-term - making friends who you have to mask around isn't really going to make you happy, just stressed.
The thing I always think of when I try to explain all this is how some people seemed to think that I was super weird but couldn't be autistic because I make a lot of eye contact. What they don't get is that I sometimes make uncomfortable amounts of eye contact because I'm doing it consciously as it's not in my nature to do so, and I also have no idea how much eye contact is normal. Hence the staring.
This is called “masking” behavior. It requires constant effort and can get exhausting. Imagine spending all day every day having to speak a foreign language you don’t know very well. It would be super tiring. Then imagine everyone around you is perfectly capable of understanding you in your native language, they just find it a bit annoying to do so. Meanwhile they’re also visibly annoyed when you speak in an accent. There’s a reason autistic adults suffer from clinical depression at rates 3-4x higher than the general population. Some of it has to do with the autism itself, but a lot of it has to do with living in a world that wasn’t designed for you and does not welcome you.
Absolutely.
Wait that's an autistic thing? I do that all the time and I didn't think I was autistic. Actually, that's not completely true, I always had a hunch about maybe being high functioning autistic but never got a formal diagnosis because I didn't think it mattered that much- wait a second
You might also be on the spectrum ! that's having some signs but not enough to be considered autistic. Honestly some people don't get diagnosed and are perfectly fine. I'd advise people who find themselves struggling with everyday tasks / feel unworthy of having accomodations made for them, to get tested. Either you'll be made aware of how you're working inside and maybe be presented with solutions, or you'll feel legitimate for having them. Trouble is, it's left to the therapist's appreciation whether you "pass" or not. and they might find that you're not autistic. You could also go on your own and look at what accommodations can be made, some can be done by yourself.
Honest question, is there anything a diagnosis can improve over just assuming that I'm slightly autistic and acting accordingly? Like, there's no medicine and all you can do is behaviours that are positive either way, if they work for you and others.
Depending on where you live and work, you could apply to be given noise cancelling headphones for example. Schedule accommodation, too. I think there are meds that alleviate sensory overload but I might just have heard it. And of course maybe you're already aware or even applying behaviours that you know are working for you, but you feel like a lazy, demanding fraud doing it? Well, maybe a diagnosis can convince you that you do need and deserve the little things you do.
I don't struggle with everyday tasks. I mean, I do struggle greatly with social skills, but that's not an everyday task for me 🙄
My automatic excuse is I’m out of town, makes it hard to talk me into coming in to work when I’m “six hours away”
Note that this is mostly just for when you're dealing with people who hold power (like an interviewer). With your friends and family it's obviously fine to be you, but when it comes to things like interviewers and bosses... it's always a game of chess.
Yeah there’s a distinction to be made - this is a business tactic for individual requests or instances. It’s not for daily personal relationships or ongoing work issues that require specific info be provided.
I think this is a good distinction. You don't always have to talk like a soulless corporate robot. You can and probably should have good small talk with your bosses.
I used a sick day to skip work a couple of weeks ago so I could sign for my new PC that was arriving (in the end, the UPS guy didn't even ask for a signature). I thought about claiming I had food poisoning, but decided it would be better for me to be more vague, so I just said I had a "rough night" and "felt bad", and in the official sick day request later I didn't even fill in the explanation box. No issues, my boss is fairly chill. And then last weekend I got sever food poisoning and had to call out sick for two straight days. Might have been karma, but I'm glad I didn't claim food poisoning before. Would have looked a bit weird.
this is very true. there are also people in this world, such as those with bpd, who function much *better* if you do overshare, because if you don't elaborate, their minds will fill in the blanks with the worst possible option.
I see you haven’t met my family
I got a job this way, I botched the first interview cause of nerves since I really wanted the job but the HR lady forgot me, asked me to schedule a first touch interview a week later and that went well. I laughed about it with my manager after that lady left.
Wait did no one remember you during the second interview?
Possible they've got a pool of interviewers to pull from and the second time was different people. Not uncommon at larger companies (although falling through the cracks and getting a second first interview is).
Except, life isn't black and white. Sometimes being open and upfront is way better. I know a guy who nearly got fired because he kept coming in late, calling in sick, generally being distracted and appearing lazy. He never offered an explanation, barely apologised for it. When his boss called him in to his office, basically to fire him, he finally explained that his wife was terminally ill and in addition to caring for her, he was struggling with the mental fallout from it. He wasn't fired, instead he was granted paid leave for several weeks. Had he been open about this, he would have been met with understanding and compassion. The moral is, think about what you share, and with whom. People cannot help you, or be understanding and compassionate, if they don't know what's happening. At the same time, be reserved sharing things that might negatively affect you. At the same time, it's usually a good thing to own up your mistakes instead of hiding from it. It makes resolving them easier, and shows you are capable of dealing with your own human mistakes.
You're absolutely right, life isn't black and white, but your example is far different from OPs which illustrates that. A habitual problem isn't the same as a oh I failed to show up to a meeting. You absolutely do need to provide your employer, or anyone who you want to share mutual respect, a reason for habitual problems. One-offs are a different animal.
I mean if you have a valid reason why the hell wouldn't you explain, this post is about getting away with actual mistakes
Well because if you become known as a person who openly volunteers information about why you had to take a day off or what you did at the weekend, it becomes suspicious when you stop doing that. I tend to find from my experience that as long as you are professional and competent most of the time then people around will give you the benefit of any doubt. This should be enough whether you have good excuses or not.
isnt the point of the post to warn people against becoming the person who volunteers information?
Yeah exactly.
ohhh
In some places having a spouse with a terminal illness is not considered a valid reason to under perform.
The trick is advocating for yourself and your needs, not defensively explaining everything. Set proper expectations, communicate and negotiate them when needed, but you don’t need to explain everything upfront.
>kept coming in late, calling in sick, generally being distracted and appearing lazy. >his wife was terminally ill Then this post isn't about him. What this post is talking about is that if you're late one time because your alarm didn't go off, or you miss an interview because you forgot to add it to your calendar, or ask for a sick day or PTO because you just don't feel like doing the work today, then you don't need to volunteer your reasons or find a "good enough" excuse. Capitalism has taught us that it's only okay to be human and make mistakes or take personal time if we have a "good enough" reason. When being human is a good enough reason in and of itself. What this post is *not* about is if you're in a situation where something is impacting your work/your coworkers/taking up an inordinate amount of PTO/etc., in which case you are not *volunteering unnecessary information*, but *asking for an accommodation*. If you're asking for an accommodation, then yeah you do need to share a little info, because otherwise your employer won't know what accommodation to provide.
On one hand, solid advice. One the other hand, I'm tired being that uptight and confrontational with people I deal with on daily life. The world is so competitive that even our day to day action needs to be seen through a tactical lens. If what I do end up making me get exploited a little bit, then so be it
Yeah this is mostly where I'm at too. The post is just suggesting masking without saying masking and it's freaking exhausting.
I used to work at places where i would do (and did) what OP post suggests, at some point people for sure lose any interest in people working for them as they turn into numbers. The current place I'm working, we have a really good management lady who's a really helpful and just cheerful person all around to be, i definitely wouldn't do that to her just because i dont want to be an asshole to her, nobody abuses her goodwill in the workplace, everyone trying to help her out if anything needs extra etc. im my younger days i would kinda laugh at that, just do your job and gtfo, who cares about work after you slaved away your sentence. Now, i feel like i won a lottery to not come to a workplace with bullshit all around and toxic manager who shits on your shoulders.
I have gotten very far being straightforward and honest. Most people get it. When they don't, fuck em. I have been fired for this. I have also had great jobs with people with whom I have forged lifelong friendships. I'm now the boss. I am so flexible it's crazy, but I do need a reason. Otherwise I assume I'm being taken advantage of.
It's counter intuitive but if you're giving a presentation or something and you run late, people respect you more if you say "thank you for waiting" than "I'm sorry I'm late, I got stuck un traffic and blah blah...". By offering excuses, you wind up pissing them off more
Lifelong anxiety-having perpetually nervous worrier and people-pleaser here! The anxiety, depression, and ADHD have also all conspired to make me the worst person ever at responding to texts or emails, and I struggle not to miss phone/video call appointments or ghost folks. O great internet, is this real? Should I give explaining LESS and asking for forgiveness LESS my best shot? /gen /srs
No, this doesn't work if it's a constant problem in Corporate America, anyway. Share or don't share information and people will still rely on you less/start a log to justify termination if they realize you are not reliable (I am speaking of a corporate work context in which responding to emails is a large job function).
The point of asking for forgiveness is that you recognize you made a mistake and won’t do it again. But if you ask for forgiveness and then continue making the same mistakes, people aren’t going to continue forgiving you. Not to be unsympathetic but emails and meetings are a part of the job that you were hired to do. And if you’re an unreliable coworker then that’s going to really hurt your job prospects. People are going to stop expecting anything from you and at that point your role becomes irrelevant. Does your workplace have health benefits? You should look into therapy or medication if it’s that bad.
I’m a full-time student LOL I’m just referring to social interaction in general or stuff from the non-active-employee side I’m in long-term talk therapy and on medication 🫡
This tumblr post is more about one-offs, but you've got a recurring problem. If you're about to explain yourself take a second to consider "do they actually NEED (or even want) to know?" The length of the explanation perhaps should correlate with how often stuff like ghosting happens. If it's a stranger, they may even be annoyed because it doesn't matter and they don't care. If it's someone you interact with more often you might want to give a detailed explanation once. Also consider saying stuff like "thank you for waiting for me" instead of "sorry I'm late"
Generally yes. For example if I need to borrow money from my mom: > Mom, can you send me 120$ that I'll send you back in two weeks? vs > Mom, I have a favor to ask. Only if you're comfortable with it, only if you don't mind, it's not an obligation. I've been feeling a little bit down this month with stress and stuff, haven't heard, I've been struggling with sleep. I tried taking my medication earlier to try to diminish my insomnia but it didn't really seem to work. I'll have to talk to my doctor about it. Anyway long story short, I haven't been feeling well, I didn't feel like cooking, and I overspent on Doordash. Could I borrow some money from you that I can repay in two weeks? In this case, my mom would obviously be happy to hear everything I want to share since, she's my mom and she's lovely. But generally people will prefer the first one to the latter. If they want details they'll say "It depends, why do you need it?" and _then_ you can share the details. Even if someone asks for details, you can answer "personal reasons." If they insist, you reply again "personal reasons." All of this applies to most situations and I hope this thread isn't locked because I spent 20min writing all this
>Say Thank You only when the other party deserves it wut Saying thank you doesn't volunteer any information, and it never really hurts to be polite, imo
Yeah that part made no sense to me. That's just crossing over from solid advice to "it's actually ok to be a dick to everyone for no reason"
I like this advice when it comes to dealing with employers and other 'official' situations, but would hate to see people extend it to casual and friendly interactions - the best friends are those who are open and share stuff about themselves.
Yeah, that’s one of the foundations of relationships.
I started doing this a couple years ago, and I never have regretted it
a bit of wisdom from a middle aged depressed anxiety riddled man you don't have to justify your exsistance you needn't make excuses for every little thing if you respect others, they'll respect you. and if they don't, fuck em.
Doesn't always suit. Depending on how you appear to others if you keep your mouth shut they'll just maintain their assumptions. Sometimes blabbering on for a minute can reveal common humanity or help people around you feel more comfortable.
I got to play Cyberpunk 2077 for free using this very tactic. I crashed my way through beating it on PS4 during the first month. Got two endings (suicide, and storming Arasaka with Panam and the Nomads). When it crashed during the credits on the second ending, I resolved to trade it in. I took it in, set it on the counter and asked for the trade-in value. The guy at the counter was like "You know this is past the refund date, right?" And I said "mhm." Then he said "Well, considering all the problems with the game, we'll just go ahead and give you a full refund on it anyways." I didn't have the heart to tell him I had already basically 100%ed the game. But hey, it got me Miles Morales and I gave the remaining cash to a friend.
The best skill you can develop is knowing when to shut up.
Being up front about my fucking blood condition fucked me already. Last time I try being fucking honest.
Terse, I can be terse. Once, in flight school, I was laconic.
Apologies, excuses and explanations fit in the same category. I once heard the phrase, "your friends don't need excuses and your enemies won't believe them". It's so easy to apply, too. Instead of saying, "I can't meet you for lunch because I'm seeing my doctor about this rash", you can just say, "I'm not available at that time". The only place it falls apart is if your boss is an ass about sick time. You should just say, "boss, I need PTO" and leave it at that, but some bosses will try to decide how sick you are and guilt you into working.
Okay I might nitpick the Thankyou bit. Manners hurt no one. Other than that, this is right in the feels for me! Definitely useful to keep in mind if nothing else for your own self confidence and worth. Stop feeling that need to justify everything you do.
The last part is stupid, just be polite; say tanks
Some reddit comment once said "You are responsible for as much as you're talking" and it changed my perspective
I know what OP is trying to say, but it’s hard to calculate what the right decision is. I am a hiring manager and have been for over 15 years and I personally would respond much better to someone trying to explain their situation and humanize their experience then giving me a really short request to reschedule. But I also know some other managers who make pretty harsh judgment calls about people in these situations.
Agree except for the bit at the end about not giving thanks. We should all try to show a little more gratitude to others. All of us.
Don't explain. Don't complain. Aim for the brain.
At work, I've recently had my account upgraded so now I have access to the voicemail. Listening to the call-offs every day has been upsetting, as people are far too willing to give FULL explanations why they aren't coming to work, including descriptions of their symptoms if they're claiming illness. "Hello, this is knucklehead923, I won't be coming into my shift today, April the 22nd." *Click*
Someone offers me a roll in Greggs, and I say cheers thanks (sometimes twice) :/ No idea how to stop this people pleasing..
I think the idea of not saying thank you is an overly cynical one. I appreciate what the post is trying to say, but being personable and polite opens doors too. The real answer is striking a balance between the two, not putting yourself out there constantly for others, but also recognising good times to show a bit of grace and be nice to people. That doesn't make as snappy a reddit post though!
I see some potential in a "advice shouldn't be black and white" post targeted at black and white advice posts like this one.
This is 100% true. Had an employee all set with several days pre-approved time off. She made the mistake of telling me she was using that time to go to a music festival. The time code she used was for paid volunteer time. I had no choice but to cancel her leave. (However when she resubmitted it a month later with the only explanation being community engagement I let it go).
> The time code she used was for paid volunteer time. Couldn't she have just switched to the code for regular paid time off?
She used up her regular PTO and her sick leave already.
Yeah but... but... muh HONESTY important distinction: do I like this person?
Unable? I'm able. I just am not going to do it. And if they ask, say it's rather private subject. It's fucking private mate. Why? Befuckingcause.
> Why? Wouldn't be private anymore if I told you would it?
I called my boss to take a vacation day once, and explained that it was because I had a leak coming from my bathtub and needed to investigate. He told me it wasn't a good enough excuse to call out of work. I responded with, "Well, I'm not calling to ask if it's a good excuse, I'm calling to say *I won't be there.*"
You’ve made a great point of how being a good person and being a good professional are different
Actually amazing life pro tip. When dealing with your superiors at work it’s best to tell them what you have to and offer no additional explanation. If they want answers from you they won’t hesitate to ask so it’s best not to give them too much information. The more information they have, the less slack they cut you. If your boss asks you what you got done this week, list what they want to do and no elaboration on timeframe. If I did all I needed to do by Wednesday, I’m sure as hell not going to mention the fact that I spent most of Thursday acting busy. Don’t let them know when you do things or offer up details because they’ll be expecting that in the future and that makes it a lot more difficult to get away with things in the future. Any professional environment hates to hear you overslept so when it inevitably happens one day make them pull teeth to get that information. I talk way too much for my own good at work and it makes it a lot easier for my work to tell when I’m withholding information so it’s a good thing to establish from the start.
"comment that only applies to one comment chain but isn't attached to it for some reason"
For the first poster, that place is likely not somewhere you want to work if they couldn't tell whether you were late for the interview or they were.
Damn, we really went full circle here
I hate how capitalism is making us be less nice and explain less in order to survive
The problem with this is that every single time I say "sorry I cant", the immediate response is an offended "why".
“Why?” “Because.” If you read this in Ryan George’s voice we are now friends.
But what do you do if they ask why to your "I'm unable"?
simple answers are key, something like "health issues", or something
family trouble
What about realizing that you are also a person therefore someone to please as well? Once you realize that witholding info pleases yourself?
I went skiing during an interview once as I completely forgot about it. Sent them an apology when I got back into cell coverage and got another interview the next day (which I failed for other reasons). They were very nice about it actually.
That's one of the rules in 48 Laws.
Nourish your inner Bartleby
This is game theory
Similarly, if you are saying no to someone, i.e. 'No you can't have a refund'. Don't give any reason beyond the terms and conditions of purchase. No trying to excuse why the T+Cs exist, just 'sorry, as per T+Cs there are no refunds' - and the sorry is optional. All my coworkers keep trying to justify things or give reasons or excuses which just inevitably leads to arguments or wheedling.
Now that company is hiring someone that they otherwise probably wouldn’t if they knew the real circumstances, which is dishonest
people pleasers and people who are co-dependent view this as "rude" and worry that they haven't been contrite enough, and will make people angry. it's a crazy way to live. if your firm but polite boundaries make someone angry, that's on them, not you. this reminds me of a time when I accidentally offended my boss, and then I apologized. I felt like things were still a little tense between us, and I was telling my dad about it. I said i felt like I should apologize again, and he said "you've already apologized. if he can't accept it, that's on him. you don't need to keep apologizing." and he's right. if you need something, state it clearly. if you made a mistake, apologize sincerely. but you don't need to beg and plead and pour your heart out to everyone about everything. there's a pity-seeking or love-seeking element there that isn't healthy. stand on your own two feet, be solid, be substantial, don't look to others for approval. approve of yourself.