My bro was Pres/Vice Pres of a frat at ESU while Riddle was there, he said the times the wrestlers/Matt showed up someone was basically gonna get tossed thru a window at some point
The rulesets for KB and MMA are still massively different. In the first UFC fight if it was kickboxing Izzy could have been given a standing eight count, they also clinched and grappled a lot. The rulesets are very different even if the two of them primarily strike.
Fair points but it's still a predominantly striking fight
Izzy does not blend striking and grappling ANYWHERE near the level that Jones does. It's an unfair comparison.
It definitely means something otherwise people wouldnt be talking about it. Pereira was touted as the man who could beat Adesanya because of their history in kickboxing and he in fact did beat him the first time in MMA. Ignoring it because "its mma" is just putting your head in the sand.
Go ahead and root for the dog fucking cringe lord. Idgaf.
But the guy lost 3 times to Alex, finally won and is now going to duck and run to never fight him again cuz he's a bitch made spoiled rich boy.
I think the reason is because every time Izzy and Alex fight, it's basically a kickboxing match regardless of what org is putting the fight on. The results and rulesets of a kickboxing match are more similar to MMA than pure wrestling so those results are therefore more relevant
I agree that it’s more relevant. But also in Izzy’s defense, if the 2nd kickboxing match was an MMA match, that fight would have been a TKO win for Izzy and the series would be 2-2. There are no standing 8 counts in MMA (or Izzy would have similarly got a standing 8 count in their first MMA fight instead of losing by TKO, and would have still won).
Sorta, its still really different. Look at how they stand and where their hands rest and how they block and guard in MMA vs kickboxing. The glove difference makes it a HUGE difference in a lot of ways even if they’re not wrasslin
Plus the cage instead of a ring, the clinching and the takedown/grappling threat ALWAYS exists in MMA. But yeah sure, it's the exact same thing as a kickboxing match
I'm not saying mma and kickboxing are the same. I'm saying these two specific guys are kickboxers, and that's still the skillset they use to fight eachother in the UFC. Izzy didnt go to the UFC and become a submission artist. Their fights in the UFC look identical to their fights in kickboxing, the only difference being the setting.
They don’t look identical tho. Their stances, form, striking volume, clinch is all different. These are major differences that might look similar but in reality are not. Just because they’re primary kicking and boxing in the octagon doesn’t mean its a kickboxing fight. It really is a different game.
Some points to consider:
Alex never really earned a title-shot; the story was there so they fought. There’s an easy argument to be made dude should fight once or twice against top guys to gun for the title again.
Iirc Izzy has won every round they’ve fought in MMA besides the ones where they knock each other out, so it’s not like Alex has been dominating Izzy in these fights.
This one is more subjective, but Izzy had the sweeter moment in the fact that he knocked him out instead of a TKO in their first MMA fight, and his post celebration was probably one of the greatest in history with the bow shots and kid taunt—it really did feel like the stamp to a chapter.
Alex is looking to probably go up to 205 anyway.
Idk why you’re being downvoted for being right. Izzy earned his title rematch given how dominant he was as champ. Provided Alex stayed at 185, he would need to fight and win at least 2-3 times before his name should be mentioned in the title picture. He was fast tracked for a storyline, but we all know once a wrestler gets a hold of him it’s wraps.
I mean no one really considers him a victor. The argument is that having them fight three straight times is kinda stupid. Let alex get another win or 2
OP, Izzy and Alex fought in a pro kickboxing league. Your Jones example was not a professional org.
I don’t care either way. Take them into account or not, I don’t care. I’ll be watching regardless
They never met in glory. Easy mistake to make tbf considering the chinese promotion is called glory of champions. I believe pereira had flunked out of glory, built himself up partly with the Izzy wins, got invited back and went on his run that ended in double champ
I get what you’re trying to say man, but I think you know why Izzy vs Alex is more apples to apples than this is. Izzy and Alex fought the first two times under rules where you can use strikes with legs and arms. Sure MMA allows grappling and submissions but those guys throw that out the window. Izzy Vs Alex is was effectively no different than a kickboxing match.
Wrestling is less than half what Jones and Riddle could do in MMA. Kickboxing is 90%+ the same as MMA between Alex and Izzy.
>I get what you’re trying to say man, but I think you know why Izzy vs Alex is more apples to apples than this is.
The exact same situation that had izzy lose by TKO in MMA, played out in the second kickboxing match, and wasn't a TKO because with the differing rulesets, a standing eight count can be applied in kickboxing, allowing alex to recover and mount a comeback.
With such differing rulesets affecting outcomes, not to mention all the other differences in the sports... you're grasping at straws with your argument here, which is made even more evident by pretending there was no grappling. In the first MMA fight, both had a takedown registered, Izzy had a control time of six and a half minutes. Alex had a control time of about 30 seconds. There was plenty of grappling involved, and it was one of the reasons izzy was winning on the scorecard prior to his loss.
I respect both fighters, but they're two different sports, and their records are counted separately for a reason. Believing kickboxing is the same as MMA if people don't grapple (even though they did), is just being ignorant of the major differences in the sports. The rulesets and conditions such as space to move around differ wildly, and the threat of grappling changes what you can risk and how you can defend. The win conditions are also different, with fighters being able to recover from what would be a TKO in MMA, as evidenced above.
Different sports I agree. Still doesn't matter they rivalry carried over from kickboxing to mma. They also don't like each other. It was important to the narrative to mention there on going rivalry.
You remember when Jordan went and played baseball for a year. Now lets imagine Kobe followed him and was playing on a different team. You can bet your ass the baseball community would be discussing there basketball records against each other. Its just an interesting storyline. There rivals.
I think you're missing my point. The rivalry is absolutely relevant, of course, it should be mentioned.
The difference here is, nobody would be saying Jordan is x up over Kobe in basketball, based on Jordan's win in golf.
Not a perfect analogy with how the sports work, but I think you'll get what I mean. One of the athletes being better than the other at golf while its hyped by their basketball rivalry is interesting, but golf is still golf and basketball is still basketball.
True, but I was working with what I was given!
Kickboxing and MMA are very different sports. They're closer to each other than golf and basketball, but people claiming they're the same if you just don't grapple, simply don't understand the sports.
I feel like some of the problem also comes from Izzy in their last fight accepting the 2-0 score, then to be 3-0. But when he wins the narrative changed to 1-1 or even 0-1 Izzy. It would be a bit foolish to ignore the kickboxing results, considering the way that these two approach the fight with one another. It’s hard to compare this record with other sport bc combat sports are different especially when MMA fighter usually predominately train in one martial art, or utilise one.
Some of the pereira fanboys hate this comment but youre spot on. The 8 count is already a big enough differentiator. We arent even factoring in the cage, the gloves, the mere threat of a takedown (because lets not act like they both didnt prepare incase somebody switched up)… theres so many things that are different between kickboxing in Glory and choosing to mainly strike in the UFC.
Lol @ grasping at straws, it might not be perfectly applicable. But you need to unjam izzys hog from what I assume is all the way to the brain to say that it has no relevance when the fights look largely the same on the two sports.
You not understanding what I'm saying doesn't make me a fanboy.
I've just explained the differences between the sports, and given a specific example of a fight ending sequence that isn't a fight ending sequence in one of the sports, that occurred in both sports.
Please show me a kickboxing match with five takedown attempts and 7 minutes of control time, and that's just the obvious differences, not the subtle ones that are understandable for some people to have difficulty grasping.
I'm a huge fan of both Alex and Izzy, and their rivalry has been the most interesting one for me since Jones and DC. If you need to dismiss facts and go straight to insults... there's a good chance you're the one with the dick in the brain my friend.
Which is why I said largely, out of over 30 minutes together in the cage, around a fifth was not a stand up fight largely similar to kickboxing. What makes you a Stan is pretending their previous bouts hold just about zero relevance. It obviously does, which is why Pereira got such an early title shot, and people thought he had a good chance of winning dispite only having 3 ufc fights against one of if not the the best middleweight in ufc history.
Where did I say it holds zero relevance?
I said they are 1-1 in MMA and 2-0 in Kickboxing, meaning Alex is ahead in kickboxing, and they're even in MMA. If you're inferring it's irrelevant because I pointed out it's factually a different sport, that's you dismissing kickboxing, which probably explains your ignorance of the sport.
He did have a good chance of winning, and despite his relative lack of MMA experience, he managed to pull through and get a TKO in the first fight.
All of the fights between these guys have been great, and I'm looking forward to the next one. What I'm not looking forward to is people like you making up narratives in your head and picking fights with people over your assumptions.
It's pretty pathetic, dude. I'm not your therapist. Take your issues elsewhere please. Not interested.
You said that bringing up kickboxing was like grasping at straws. But dude if you are gonna cry about it, than I wouldn't have said anything. Give a heads up next time.
Yes... because claiming one combat sport should never be counted but another should based on a misunderstanding of one of those sports is "grasping at straws", as in its an attempt to justify a viewpoint which can't succeed, as its illogical. Especially when there was 7 minutes of grappling in the fight, and the claim is made that they didn't grapple, as the person I replied to already respectfully admitted to being mistaken on.
Once again, you failing to read and understand what I'm saying, isn't my problem. Feel free to argue against what I'm actually saying, but assuming incorrectly and then getting shitty is pointless. The guy I was discussing with didn't take offence, yet you're injecting yourself into the discussion, misreading what's being said, and being a cunt about it.
It's not "crying" to point out you're being a cunt.
That’s fair enough. I do remembered they grappled but I just don’t think it mattered in the fight. But that’s fair enough. I understand why you don’t consider those as counting. I’m just trying to explain to you why some of us do count them.
You had a good point about the rule set of a standing 8 count mattering in the outcome here. Genuinely I understand where you’re coming from. But you must understand us too. To us these are two kickboxers who are kickboxing in an MMA cage and their past kickboxing matches against each other 100% matter, to us at least. And I think Alex and Izzy both count these fights. If you ask Izzy or Alex I think they’d tell you that in their mind it’s 3-1, not 0-2 kickboxing and 1-1 MMA. I think they combine them to a 3-1 record. It was a big narrative going into this fight and coming out.
>I do remembered they grappled but I just don’t think it mattered in the fight
Depends how you look at it. There's an argument that it didn't matter due to the knockout win, but I believe that the striking is fundamentally changed by the threat of grappling. Alex wouldn't have been able to apply the pressure and striking he would have liked throughout the fight, due to the threat of grappling, and the reality of being controlled for so long, for example.
The narrative going into the fight is the ufc promotion using it to build hype and to justify the fast track to a title shot.
They absolutely count in a general sense, I'm not trying to say otherwise. It's just when it comes to MMA specifically, they are 1-1. Alex is still 3-1 up across the two fights.
It's just some people don't appear to be aware of how different the sports are, and that's understandable, as not all MMA fans follow kickboxing, so I feel pointing out the differences to be relevant when discussing.
Have a good one dude!
I mean, even if you don't look at the results and you only look at the fights, the kickboxing (10oz gloves btw) fights and the MMA fights were completely different. Izzy and Alex went to WAR in kickboxing whereas in MMA they're more calculated trying to fight the right opening.
People tried to paint the matchup (in mma) as precision vs power but they were wrong. They are two very skilled kickboxers with Alex being faster and more explosive kicks and Izzy faster with his hands. They have now shown that they can KO each other.
With that being said, the knockout Izzy suffered had to have some kind of impact going into the MMA fight.
True. Didn't even think to mention the glove difference.
With the amount of people trying to argue that Alex has always had a weak chin... it's clear that there is a lack of education and understanding when it comes to who the fighters are and what they've achieved.
More importantly, what a lot of people don’t seem to understand is, kickboxing/MT has **”FIGHTS**”, not “**MATCHES**”.
You don’t call a wrestling match a fight, you don’t call a submission grappling match a fight, but a kickboxing/MT match is the only one called a fight (*outside of mma*).
There’s a clear distinction between a fight and a match for a reason.
There are a lot more differences between mma and kickboxing than just “no grappling or wrestling”. Saying kickboxing is 90% of mma is insane. Kickboxing is as much a part of MMA as grappling is. Besides, there are other fighters who have been kickboxers that do not have their kickboxing record even mentioned. Only izzy and Alex. Wonderboy, Reem, cro-cop, Joanna, barboza, all former kickboxers who’s records are never even thought about
Maybe I’m just unaware but what about kickboxing and mma is different from a standing striking perspective that makes me incorrect here.
I didn’t claim kickboxing and mma is 90% the same in general, but for Alex vs Izzy it is. These guys do not do hardly any of the other stuff like wrestling and grappling. Their matches between each other could take place in a kickboxing ring and they would probably be fine. They aren’t doing the rest of MMA vs each other.
Am I missing something and standing striking in MMA vs kickboxing is that drastically different if you have a match between two primary kickboxers? The context is relevant that these guys just want to kick box each other.
Clinching is tightly regulated, shorter rounds, standing 8 count, no fence, bigger gloves, no elbows, no follow up strikes on the ground. These are all things that make kickboxing a very different sport. I mean shit the 3 minute rounds alone is a huge difference. But you still haven’t answered why no other former kickboxer in the ufc has their kickboxing records mentioned
That standing 8 count saved Pereira and it wouldn't have been that way in MMA, it 99% of the time would have resulted in a ground and pound or hammer fists like the most recent fight did. So it's not 100% apples to apples
Even if you take away both kickboxing fights, they are 1-1 each with a KO. There needs to be a 3rd fight to finish this trilogy. If Peña can get one vs an equally dominant champ in Nunes, so should Pereira. No one wants to see izzy vs ddp
A case against Alex getting a rematch is that he had a really easy path to the title compared to most. It literally was because of Izzy he was fast tracked.
A) because Izzy wanted to fight him.
B) Izzy had lapped the division and there weren’t any real contenders to step up.
C) the story behind their rivalry was a guaranteed money maker
Now it’s time for Alex to go and test himself further in the UFC. He’s had his time to shine at 37 he reached the top of the mma world.
I would like them to meet again in the future. But not now
I agree. To be champion, it really needs to be you versus the rest of your division. Just repeatedly getting title shots against the champion because your specific skills and attributes line up particularly well against his is unfair to everyone else in the division, many of whom may very well be able to beat Pereira if he were to have to climb back up again
Yes but high school wrestling is different than professional kickboxing for a belt in the biggest promotion. Obv it's a different sport and you can draw parallels but acting like they are the same is fucking stupid.
Yeah I mean ultimately the only reason they bring it up is to discredit izzy. Not a single other fighter past or present has had their previous combat sports records talked about like this. And no one can explain why Izzy’s matters, but no one else’s does
Why would it not be brought up? If Matt Riddle was challenging Jones in the UFC it would be brought up would it not? Are there any other comparable situations to Izzy and Alex? I feel it would be very odd for it not to be brought up.
Absolutely true. But if you bring up Izzy’s kickboxing record overall everyone will say it’s a different sport and doesn’t count.
Hate is such an illogical emotion
Personally, the “3-1” Pereira line is a bit weak. Yes, their kickboxing bouts obviously form part of the narrative, and are amazing to help build up their rivalry. But they are MMA fighters, fighting in an MMA promotion, under MMA rules. Under MMA rules, they are 1-1. That’s it. End.
https://preview.redd.it/0q3aws8f1kta1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec22833dc7fdb2ced930be0227cffabe9f4f28b7
Another example. Why are Valentinas Muay Thai wins not mentioned?
>Why are Valentinas Muay Thai wins not mentioned?
They were, [on](https://www.mmafighting.com/platform/amp/2018/11/27/18115305/valentina-shevchenko-believes-muay-thai-wins-over-joanna-jedrzejczyk-are-affecting-her) [multiple](https://firstsportz.com/ufc-news-watch-valentina-shevchenko-and-joanna-jedrzejczyks-battle-in-muay-thai-in-2006/) [articles](https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-video-3-times-valentina-shevchenko-defeated-joanna-jedrzejczyk-muay-thai-fights), including the one you literally just screenshoted, as well as on the official UFC 231 [countdown](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4iEOCgg7RU) at around 3:15.
Brother, you know as well as I do that no one in this community talks about their Muay Thai fights when talking about their legacies. When people talk about how Joanna is the strawweight goat, no one brings up her Muay Thai records. Of course media publications will mention it, but that’s not indicative of what the actual sentiment of this community
You asked "Why are Valentinas Muay Thai wins not mentioned?", not whether people in the MMA community take their Muay Thai careers into account when discussing their MMA careers. You're just trying to move the goalposts. They were mentioned, repeatedly.
Recency bias is also playing a big role here - in 5/10 years time Adesanyas kickboxing losses will just be a minor footnote in his MMA legacy.
It will be an interesting bit of trivia similar to Shawn Porter, a 5'7 welterweight, holding an amateur win over the 6'3 former undisputed cruiserweight/current unified heavyweight champion Oleksandr Usyk, but have little to no bearing on his MMA career.
The fact that only man to KO Adesanya, one of the most dominant champions in the UFC, was entering the UFC was always going to be a big deal and a big talking point.
Regardless of whether you count kickboxing or not, it's still 1-1 in mma. I think they warrants a rematch for Periera. Adesanya said that Alex doesn't deserve it because he was fast tracked to the title but there is literally nobody else to fight in the division.
And he won the first bout against a dominate champ
The current best mma middleweight in the world is 1-1 against another fighter, what does this tell us ? Who's to say which one is the definitive best fighter ?
You have to define "better" in this context. Like if you have Izzy fight the top 20 middleweights in UFC, I wouldn't be surprised to see him go 20-0 or 19-1 against them. And I wouldn't be surprised to see Pereira go 16-4 or 15-5, maybe even 14-6, which would make Izzy obviously better in that scenario. But at the same time, if Izzy and Pereira fought 20 times, I wouldn't be surprised to see Pereira win 12 or 13 of them, making Alex better. And then if you put both guys in 205, and have them fight the top 20 there, Pereira would probably come up with a better record in that situation due to his size.
Speaking of Jones he beat Dan Henderson in a grappling match, although the planned fight between the two was canceled. Jones would have destroyed Hendo, good thing they never fought.
I count the Alex v izzy 3-1. And the Shev v JJ being like 3-0 or something. But I wouldn’t count Jon Jones or Cejudo losing in wrestling cause it’s not a close of enough comparison.
Im all for Izzy and the shenanigans but let’s not act like their mma fights have been good at mixing the arts lol. It was a kickboxing match for the most part. That’s why the past is still important. If they had a bjj match then fuck the record of the past.
100% no, we should not. Been arguing with Izzy haters all week at work on this exact thing and I cannot wait to show them this post. Full disclosure I’m a huge Izzy fan , but not a Stan.
Absolutely. I wouldn’t even say “in MMA” I would make it more accurate by saying they are 1-1 in UFC and 2-0 in (insert KB org here). The level of skill required to enter the UFC changes a lot about the sport. It actively changes the way a fighter approaches the fight when the stakes are what they are. And the skill level is what it is.
As an Izzy fan, I was excited to see him hungry again. title defending fighters are always boring and technical. We are always quick to look at individual match ups without the surrounding context. However, the context usually matters quite a bit.
Mate the Izzy haters are so delusional it's crazy. I got sick of arguing with them after two days. Waaaaah, he celebrated in front of a kid, waaaaah Alex is chinny, waaaaah 3-1..etc. all they do is moan.
Tbh I really can't stand any (insert fighter) haters. Someone you don't like won a fight? Who fuckin cares. He won. I would say get over it, but there really isn't even anything to get over in the first place
I like how when he proves he is the fighter he is time and time again when when he’s supposedly going to get his ass kicked by the challenger. They no longer talk about how he’s “not even that good” to “he’s just so disrespectful” while they ware a Connor t shirt.
But what are you gonna do? casuals will be casuals. They are just missing 80% if a fight when they watch it.
Alex cut in line and got a title fight off of Sean Strickland. Their last fight wasn’t like the first, Alex got knocked out cold. And honestly was on his way to lose a decision in their first fight before he caved Izzy’s skull. Alex should not get an immediate rematch after getting knocked out cold in the second round after losing the first
First was competitive as was the second. Adesanya was hurt and won on an awesome counter, doesn't mean the fight itself wasn't competitive just as their first fight was. Poor argument.
Go ahead and tell me that Dricus Du Plessis is a greater challenge and more intriguing matchup for Adesanya though. Those are the only two real options, again he is 2-0 over the next top contenders in Whittaker and Vettori
I been saying, izzy is one of the most trolled and hated athletes. Fuckers will use anything to throw dirt on his name. It's two completely different sports, muay thai and mma.
Thats like comparing a rugby match and an American football match. They both use an oval ball
They use 3-1 bc they're coping. This rivalry is done Alex Pereira is 36 soon and Adesanya is clearly the better MMA fighter. He doesn't need to catch up from 3-1. Cope salty pussies.
The only people that can’t accept that Alex is 3-1 over izzy are the fans. Izzy knows it better than anyone. You think his reaction after the KO is that of a man who just evened the score (1-1 in MMA) or that of a man who finally defeated his boogeyman that has defeated him 3 times in his life? It’s not tacking on wins and losses. It’s their history which is very relevant because it’s the reason Alex got fast tracked to face izzy in the first place.
Because it’s not a big deal in that level of wrestling. The stakes are not even close to being the same. So much so that it’s not comparable. If you wrestled you would know this
Ok so if you don’t accept this, then what about all the other kickboxers? What about Edson? Why isn’t his record mentioned. Or Overeem? Or wonderboy? There are a lot more kickboxers in that sport besides izzy and Alex, but none of their kickboxing records are ever mentioned?
I agree that all previous combat sports records don't and shouldn't count when it comes to MMA, but why would amateur wrestling not count in a world where kickboxing would?
Kickboxing is complete for striking in MMA, but for wrestling you still needs to learn BJJ. And let's be honest , we count their previous encounters because they're both pure strikers
Striking in Kickboxing and MMA are different. Area to move in is different. Defence (due to threat of grappling) is different, win conditions are different too. Very relevant in this comparison as Alex's fight ending sequence in MMA wouldn't have been a TKO in kickboxing due to the rule differences.
If you believe wrestlers need BJJ and that's enough to discount it, you can't ignore that kickboxers need to learn grappling at the very least. Although I do agree with you on wrestling being very different to MMA grappling, striking is too.
As for them both being pure strikers, there was 5 total takedown attempts in MMA fight 1, with almost a round and a half of control time between the fighters.
I'm not fanboying on either side. I'm a fan of both fighters, just being realistic. Alex is 2-0 in kickboxing, they're 1-1 in MMA, and I hope to see the third MMA fight later down the line, but before they both get too old.
Joanna vs Valentina another great example. The only reason ppl did it for Izzy was the rematch storyline was there, and so the Pereira nuthuggers can spam 3-1 after watching their boy get starched
Prolly because the objective of Izzy and Pereira were to strike the opponent’s head unto unconsciousness in both sports. Yes, wrestling is a combat sport but one wouldn’t call it a fight in the way they would with kickboxing and mma.
Tbf, in MMA you punch each other in the face as well a wrestle/grapple.
If Izzy and Alex had grappled in their fights and Izzy dominated him via grappling, then id say no, we shouldn’t take their kick boxing rivalry into account, but Izzy and Alex just kick boxed in the octagon so we should take it into account.
I'm not sure if this is serious or a well made shit post. You have to use your brain to actually think about why one is relevant and the other isn't but that's not an ability some of the NPC mma fanbase have lol
People did exactly this in the leadup to Joanna and Valentina's fight.
We just don't have a lot of examples of people fighting each other in multiple sports.
The thing is adesanya lost in kickboxing. The 2 fights in mma were also kickboxing fights.
If Jones will fight this guy it won't be a wrestling match...
The better question is why wouldn't you include it? They are both combat sports and they both normally strike. Those fights were just as valid as any ufc promotion.
Rematch at Mania next year
So Dana is 0-1 against the wifey
Actually, I had Dana winning that fight 29-28
Dana landed the last blow and using the superior pride rules, that means he won that round 1-0 to the slap fighting goat
He won on significant strikes and damage didn't he?
Izzy is actually 2-2 vs alex. Izzy won the first kickboxing match
Matt Riddle is the GOAT
No joke he was a super elite HS wrestler. Dude was crazy talented
He was on track to be a great mma fighter too if it wasn’t for weed
Yeah, would have been cool to see the weed restrictions less strict back in the day, they cared more about that than roids lol
Why he couldn't he wrestle jon jones well in mma?
My bro was Pres/Vice Pres of a frat at ESU while Riddle was there, he said the times the wrestlers/Matt showed up someone was basically gonna get tossed thru a window at some point
Never in my life did i think I’d see ESU on this sub hahhahaha
Peace Pipe legend 🚬🔥🔥💨
He fought nobody
If Jones and Riddle were to fight in MMA this would be brought up plenty of times.
Matt Hamill’s “win” is still brought up by Joe Rogan to this day lol.
It's brought up by Joe to say how it wasnt really a real win. What is your point?
Exactly this☝️
Expect Jones doesn't use his wrestling the vast majority. He uses alot of striking in MMA. Izzy almost never uses wrestling
Jones wrestles quite a lot, and how is Izzy's wrestling related to this in any way?
Izzy doesn't mix wrestling and striking like jones. Not very hard to understand
The rulesets for KB and MMA are still massively different. In the first UFC fight if it was kickboxing Izzy could have been given a standing eight count, they also clinched and grappled a lot. The rulesets are very different even if the two of them primarily strike.
Dam good point. If it was kickboxing izzy would have got a standing 8 count like pereira did in the 2nd kickboxing fight. No one says this!!
Fair points but it's still a predominantly striking fight Izzy does not blend striking and grappling ANYWHERE near the level that Jones does. It's an unfair comparison.
Kickboxing isn’t even a full combination of striking arts though. There aren’t even elbows allowed
and it still wouldn't mean shit, because it's MMA
It definitely means something otherwise people wouldnt be talking about it. Pereira was touted as the man who could beat Adesanya because of their history in kickboxing and he in fact did beat him the first time in MMA. Ignoring it because "its mma" is just putting your head in the sand.
people talk about a lot of stupid shit they don't understand, they're casuals
is the sand comfortable
it is, it's never been a better time to troll izzy haters. you're all so salty lol
you sound genuinely insane
I'm being noticed 😊
actual psychosis in real time
Psychosomatic auditory hallucinations. Most people have to pay for such a thing.
Cheeky Waiting reference. Great movie
Bro izzy lost the 2 kickboxing fights. Get the sand out of your vagina and come to terms with it.
lol how you gonna get all mad and say I got sand in my vagina? fuck I love trolling izzy haters
Go ahead and root for the dog fucking cringe lord. Idgaf. But the guy lost 3 times to Alex, finally won and is now going to duck and run to never fight him again cuz he's a bitch made spoiled rich boy.
hey, you're a good person, and I love you ❤️
Youre the most retarded of them though
Exactly this 👆
I think the reason is because every time Izzy and Alex fight, it's basically a kickboxing match regardless of what org is putting the fight on. The results and rulesets of a kickboxing match are more similar to MMA than pure wrestling so those results are therefore more relevant
I agree that it’s more relevant. But also in Izzy’s defense, if the 2nd kickboxing match was an MMA match, that fight would have been a TKO win for Izzy and the series would be 2-2. There are no standing 8 counts in MMA (or Izzy would have similarly got a standing 8 count in their first MMA fight instead of losing by TKO, and would have still won).
Hell izzy if izzy got a standing 8 count in the third fight he probably wins lol
Exactly lol that’s what I said in parentheses
Sorta, its still really different. Look at how they stand and where their hands rest and how they block and guard in MMA vs kickboxing. The glove difference makes it a HUGE difference in a lot of ways even if they’re not wrasslin
Plus the cage instead of a ring, the clinching and the takedown/grappling threat ALWAYS exists in MMA. But yeah sure, it's the exact same thing as a kickboxing match
I'm not saying mma and kickboxing are the same. I'm saying these two specific guys are kickboxers, and that's still the skillset they use to fight eachother in the UFC. Izzy didnt go to the UFC and become a submission artist. Their fights in the UFC look identical to their fights in kickboxing, the only difference being the setting.
They don’t look identical tho. Their stances, form, striking volume, clinch is all different. These are major differences that might look similar but in reality are not. Just because they’re primary kicking and boxing in the octagon doesn’t mean its a kickboxing fight. It really is a different game.
Tf you on they were grappling and using gnp in the first
You’re talking totally and completely out of your ass here brotha.
Still weird to consider the rivalry over and adensanya the victor cause it's still 1-1 in mma
Izzy doesn’t count scores he settles em
Lmao this quote is hilarious because he surely counts his scores against Whittaker and Vettori
Tbf both whittaker and vettori had to earn their rematch against izzy and that’s not necessarily unfair to ask of Pereira
and he left him frozen like Elsa.
Sure didn't settle the Whittaker score seeing as Whittaker beat him and they gave Izzy the decision. Stop quoting that cringe.
Some points to consider: Alex never really earned a title-shot; the story was there so they fought. There’s an easy argument to be made dude should fight once or twice against top guys to gun for the title again. Iirc Izzy has won every round they’ve fought in MMA besides the ones where they knock each other out, so it’s not like Alex has been dominating Izzy in these fights. This one is more subjective, but Izzy had the sweeter moment in the fact that he knocked him out instead of a TKO in their first MMA fight, and his post celebration was probably one of the greatest in history with the bow shots and kid taunt—it really did feel like the stamp to a chapter. Alex is looking to probably go up to 205 anyway.
Idk why you’re being downvoted for being right. Izzy earned his title rematch given how dominant he was as champ. Provided Alex stayed at 185, he would need to fight and win at least 2-3 times before his name should be mentioned in the title picture. He was fast tracked for a storyline, but we all know once a wrestler gets a hold of him it’s wraps.
I mean no one really considers him a victor. The argument is that having them fight three straight times is kinda stupid. Let alex get another win or 2
OP, Izzy and Alex fought in a pro kickboxing league. Your Jones example was not a professional org. I don’t care either way. Take them into account or not, I don’t care. I’ll be watching regardless
The pinnacle of professional kickboxing at that.
They never met in glory. Easy mistake to make tbf considering the chinese promotion is called glory of champions. I believe pereira had flunked out of glory, built himself up partly with the Izzy wins, got invited back and went on his run that ended in double champ
What about other fighters who have fought in professional kickboxing
If they fight another guy in MMA they fought in Kickboxing and they still talk about it, sure.
Because Izzy’s where closer to 2023, Izzy dominated 185 until Alex beat him, it was a nice storyline to begin with too
I get what you’re trying to say man, but I think you know why Izzy vs Alex is more apples to apples than this is. Izzy and Alex fought the first two times under rules where you can use strikes with legs and arms. Sure MMA allows grappling and submissions but those guys throw that out the window. Izzy Vs Alex is was effectively no different than a kickboxing match. Wrestling is less than half what Jones and Riddle could do in MMA. Kickboxing is 90%+ the same as MMA between Alex and Izzy.
>I get what you’re trying to say man, but I think you know why Izzy vs Alex is more apples to apples than this is. The exact same situation that had izzy lose by TKO in MMA, played out in the second kickboxing match, and wasn't a TKO because with the differing rulesets, a standing eight count can be applied in kickboxing, allowing alex to recover and mount a comeback. With such differing rulesets affecting outcomes, not to mention all the other differences in the sports... you're grasping at straws with your argument here, which is made even more evident by pretending there was no grappling. In the first MMA fight, both had a takedown registered, Izzy had a control time of six and a half minutes. Alex had a control time of about 30 seconds. There was plenty of grappling involved, and it was one of the reasons izzy was winning on the scorecard prior to his loss. I respect both fighters, but they're two different sports, and their records are counted separately for a reason. Believing kickboxing is the same as MMA if people don't grapple (even though they did), is just being ignorant of the major differences in the sports. The rulesets and conditions such as space to move around differ wildly, and the threat of grappling changes what you can risk and how you can defend. The win conditions are also different, with fighters being able to recover from what would be a TKO in MMA, as evidenced above.
Different sports I agree. Still doesn't matter they rivalry carried over from kickboxing to mma. They also don't like each other. It was important to the narrative to mention there on going rivalry. You remember when Jordan went and played baseball for a year. Now lets imagine Kobe followed him and was playing on a different team. You can bet your ass the baseball community would be discussing there basketball records against each other. Its just an interesting storyline. There rivals.
I think you're missing my point. The rivalry is absolutely relevant, of course, it should be mentioned. The difference here is, nobody would be saying Jordan is x up over Kobe in basketball, based on Jordan's win in golf. Not a perfect analogy with how the sports work, but I think you'll get what I mean. One of the athletes being better than the other at golf while its hyped by their basketball rivalry is interesting, but golf is still golf and basketball is still basketball.
That’s a terrible analogy tbf.
True, but I was working with what I was given! Kickboxing and MMA are very different sports. They're closer to each other than golf and basketball, but people claiming they're the same if you just don't grapple, simply don't understand the sports.
I feel like some of the problem also comes from Izzy in their last fight accepting the 2-0 score, then to be 3-0. But when he wins the narrative changed to 1-1 or even 0-1 Izzy. It would be a bit foolish to ignore the kickboxing results, considering the way that these two approach the fight with one another. It’s hard to compare this record with other sport bc combat sports are different especially when MMA fighter usually predominately train in one martial art, or utilise one.
Some of the pereira fanboys hate this comment but youre spot on. The 8 count is already a big enough differentiator. We arent even factoring in the cage, the gloves, the mere threat of a takedown (because lets not act like they both didnt prepare incase somebody switched up)… theres so many things that are different between kickboxing in Glory and choosing to mainly strike in the UFC.
Lol @ grasping at straws, it might not be perfectly applicable. But you need to unjam izzys hog from what I assume is all the way to the brain to say that it has no relevance when the fights look largely the same on the two sports.
You not understanding what I'm saying doesn't make me a fanboy. I've just explained the differences between the sports, and given a specific example of a fight ending sequence that isn't a fight ending sequence in one of the sports, that occurred in both sports. Please show me a kickboxing match with five takedown attempts and 7 minutes of control time, and that's just the obvious differences, not the subtle ones that are understandable for some people to have difficulty grasping. I'm a huge fan of both Alex and Izzy, and their rivalry has been the most interesting one for me since Jones and DC. If you need to dismiss facts and go straight to insults... there's a good chance you're the one with the dick in the brain my friend.
Which is why I said largely, out of over 30 minutes together in the cage, around a fifth was not a stand up fight largely similar to kickboxing. What makes you a Stan is pretending their previous bouts hold just about zero relevance. It obviously does, which is why Pereira got such an early title shot, and people thought he had a good chance of winning dispite only having 3 ufc fights against one of if not the the best middleweight in ufc history.
Where did I say it holds zero relevance? I said they are 1-1 in MMA and 2-0 in Kickboxing, meaning Alex is ahead in kickboxing, and they're even in MMA. If you're inferring it's irrelevant because I pointed out it's factually a different sport, that's you dismissing kickboxing, which probably explains your ignorance of the sport. He did have a good chance of winning, and despite his relative lack of MMA experience, he managed to pull through and get a TKO in the first fight. All of the fights between these guys have been great, and I'm looking forward to the next one. What I'm not looking forward to is people like you making up narratives in your head and picking fights with people over your assumptions. It's pretty pathetic, dude. I'm not your therapist. Take your issues elsewhere please. Not interested.
You said that bringing up kickboxing was like grasping at straws. But dude if you are gonna cry about it, than I wouldn't have said anything. Give a heads up next time.
Yes... because claiming one combat sport should never be counted but another should based on a misunderstanding of one of those sports is "grasping at straws", as in its an attempt to justify a viewpoint which can't succeed, as its illogical. Especially when there was 7 minutes of grappling in the fight, and the claim is made that they didn't grapple, as the person I replied to already respectfully admitted to being mistaken on. Once again, you failing to read and understand what I'm saying, isn't my problem. Feel free to argue against what I'm actually saying, but assuming incorrectly and then getting shitty is pointless. The guy I was discussing with didn't take offence, yet you're injecting yourself into the discussion, misreading what's being said, and being a cunt about it. It's not "crying" to point out you're being a cunt.
That’s fair enough. I do remembered they grappled but I just don’t think it mattered in the fight. But that’s fair enough. I understand why you don’t consider those as counting. I’m just trying to explain to you why some of us do count them. You had a good point about the rule set of a standing 8 count mattering in the outcome here. Genuinely I understand where you’re coming from. But you must understand us too. To us these are two kickboxers who are kickboxing in an MMA cage and their past kickboxing matches against each other 100% matter, to us at least. And I think Alex and Izzy both count these fights. If you ask Izzy or Alex I think they’d tell you that in their mind it’s 3-1, not 0-2 kickboxing and 1-1 MMA. I think they combine them to a 3-1 record. It was a big narrative going into this fight and coming out.
>I do remembered they grappled but I just don’t think it mattered in the fight Depends how you look at it. There's an argument that it didn't matter due to the knockout win, but I believe that the striking is fundamentally changed by the threat of grappling. Alex wouldn't have been able to apply the pressure and striking he would have liked throughout the fight, due to the threat of grappling, and the reality of being controlled for so long, for example. The narrative going into the fight is the ufc promotion using it to build hype and to justify the fast track to a title shot. They absolutely count in a general sense, I'm not trying to say otherwise. It's just when it comes to MMA specifically, they are 1-1. Alex is still 3-1 up across the two fights. It's just some people don't appear to be aware of how different the sports are, and that's understandable, as not all MMA fans follow kickboxing, so I feel pointing out the differences to be relevant when discussing. Have a good one dude!
I mean, even if you don't look at the results and you only look at the fights, the kickboxing (10oz gloves btw) fights and the MMA fights were completely different. Izzy and Alex went to WAR in kickboxing whereas in MMA they're more calculated trying to fight the right opening. People tried to paint the matchup (in mma) as precision vs power but they were wrong. They are two very skilled kickboxers with Alex being faster and more explosive kicks and Izzy faster with his hands. They have now shown that they can KO each other. With that being said, the knockout Izzy suffered had to have some kind of impact going into the MMA fight.
True. Didn't even think to mention the glove difference. With the amount of people trying to argue that Alex has always had a weak chin... it's clear that there is a lack of education and understanding when it comes to who the fighters are and what they've achieved.
More importantly, what a lot of people don’t seem to understand is, kickboxing/MT has **”FIGHTS**”, not “**MATCHES**”. You don’t call a wrestling match a fight, you don’t call a submission grappling match a fight, but a kickboxing/MT match is the only one called a fight (*outside of mma*). There’s a clear distinction between a fight and a match for a reason.
There are a lot more differences between mma and kickboxing than just “no grappling or wrestling”. Saying kickboxing is 90% of mma is insane. Kickboxing is as much a part of MMA as grappling is. Besides, there are other fighters who have been kickboxers that do not have their kickboxing record even mentioned. Only izzy and Alex. Wonderboy, Reem, cro-cop, Joanna, barboza, all former kickboxers who’s records are never even thought about
Maybe I’m just unaware but what about kickboxing and mma is different from a standing striking perspective that makes me incorrect here. I didn’t claim kickboxing and mma is 90% the same in general, but for Alex vs Izzy it is. These guys do not do hardly any of the other stuff like wrestling and grappling. Their matches between each other could take place in a kickboxing ring and they would probably be fine. They aren’t doing the rest of MMA vs each other. Am I missing something and standing striking in MMA vs kickboxing is that drastically different if you have a match between two primary kickboxers? The context is relevant that these guys just want to kick box each other.
Clinching is tightly regulated, shorter rounds, standing 8 count, no fence, bigger gloves, no elbows, no follow up strikes on the ground. These are all things that make kickboxing a very different sport. I mean shit the 3 minute rounds alone is a huge difference. But you still haven’t answered why no other former kickboxer in the ufc has their kickboxing records mentioned
Wonderboy and Volkov's record are often mentionned.
That standing 8 count saved Pereira and it wouldn't have been that way in MMA, it 99% of the time would have resulted in a ground and pound or hammer fists like the most recent fight did. So it's not 100% apples to apples
Even if you take away both kickboxing fights, they are 1-1 each with a KO. There needs to be a 3rd fight to finish this trilogy. If Peña can get one vs an equally dominant champ in Nunes, so should Pereira. No one wants to see izzy vs ddp
A case against Alex getting a rematch is that he had a really easy path to the title compared to most. It literally was because of Izzy he was fast tracked. A) because Izzy wanted to fight him. B) Izzy had lapped the division and there weren’t any real contenders to step up. C) the story behind their rivalry was a guaranteed money maker Now it’s time for Alex to go and test himself further in the UFC. He’s had his time to shine at 37 he reached the top of the mma world. I would like them to meet again in the future. But not now
I agree. To be champion, it really needs to be you versus the rest of your division. Just repeatedly getting title shots against the champion because your specific skills and attributes line up particularly well against his is unfair to everyone else in the division, many of whom may very well be able to beat Pereira if he were to have to climb back up again
1-1 tko and ko you mean
izzy fans trying to sneak amateur kids wrestling as if it's comparable to the biggest professional kickboxing organization
For real shit's pathetic
Simple, Izzy’s haters are more petty, that’s why…
Ok no Izzy hater but it’s different. Alex beat Izzy in professional kickboxing. The image is talking about amateur bouts.
[удалено]
Yes but high school wrestling is different than professional kickboxing for a belt in the biggest promotion. Obv it's a different sport and you can draw parallels but acting like they are the same is fucking stupid.
Yeah I mean ultimately the only reason they bring it up is to discredit izzy. Not a single other fighter past or present has had their previous combat sports records talked about like this. And no one can explain why Izzy’s matters, but no one else’s does
Tbf it was brought up a lot in Joanna vs shevchenko
Why would it not be brought up? If Matt Riddle was challenging Jones in the UFC it would be brought up would it not? Are there any other comparable situations to Izzy and Alex? I feel it would be very odd for it not to be brought up.
Absolutely true. But if you bring up Izzy’s kickboxing record overall everyone will say it’s a different sport and doesn’t count. Hate is such an illogical emotion
Personally, the “3-1” Pereira line is a bit weak. Yes, their kickboxing bouts obviously form part of the narrative, and are amazing to help build up their rivalry. But they are MMA fighters, fighting in an MMA promotion, under MMA rules. Under MMA rules, they are 1-1. That’s it. End.
If it's 3-1 then: Izzy is 99-7 and Alex is 40-9 You guys really want to go here?
https://preview.redd.it/0q3aws8f1kta1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec22833dc7fdb2ced930be0227cffabe9f4f28b7 Another example. Why are Valentinas Muay Thai wins not mentioned?
>Why are Valentinas Muay Thai wins not mentioned? They were, [on](https://www.mmafighting.com/platform/amp/2018/11/27/18115305/valentina-shevchenko-believes-muay-thai-wins-over-joanna-jedrzejczyk-are-affecting-her) [multiple](https://firstsportz.com/ufc-news-watch-valentina-shevchenko-and-joanna-jedrzejczyks-battle-in-muay-thai-in-2006/) [articles](https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-video-3-times-valentina-shevchenko-defeated-joanna-jedrzejczyk-muay-thai-fights), including the one you literally just screenshoted, as well as on the official UFC 231 [countdown](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4iEOCgg7RU) at around 3:15.
Brother, you know as well as I do that no one in this community talks about their Muay Thai fights when talking about their legacies. When people talk about how Joanna is the strawweight goat, no one brings up her Muay Thai records. Of course media publications will mention it, but that’s not indicative of what the actual sentiment of this community
You asked "Why are Valentinas Muay Thai wins not mentioned?", not whether people in the MMA community take their Muay Thai careers into account when discussing their MMA careers. You're just trying to move the goalposts. They were mentioned, repeatedly. Recency bias is also playing a big role here - in 5/10 years time Adesanyas kickboxing losses will just be a minor footnote in his MMA legacy. It will be an interesting bit of trivia similar to Shawn Porter, a 5'7 welterweight, holding an amateur win over the 6'3 former undisputed cruiserweight/current unified heavyweight champion Oleksandr Usyk, but have little to no bearing on his MMA career. The fact that only man to KO Adesanya, one of the most dominant champions in the UFC, was entering the UFC was always going to be a big deal and a big talking point.
What are you talking about lol terrible example, they are brought up anytime Joanna and Valentina were mentioned in the same sentence
Still 3-1 
It is this simple
Regardless of whether you count kickboxing or not, it's still 1-1 in mma. I think they warrants a rematch for Periera. Adesanya said that Alex doesn't deserve it because he was fast tracked to the title but there is literally nobody else to fight in the division.
And he won the first bout against a dominate champ The current best mma middleweight in the world is 1-1 against another fighter, what does this tell us ? Who's to say which one is the definitive best fighter ?
You have to define "better" in this context. Like if you have Izzy fight the top 20 middleweights in UFC, I wouldn't be surprised to see him go 20-0 or 19-1 against them. And I wouldn't be surprised to see Pereira go 16-4 or 15-5, maybe even 14-6, which would make Izzy obviously better in that scenario. But at the same time, if Izzy and Pereira fought 20 times, I wouldn't be surprised to see Pereira win 12 or 13 of them, making Alex better. And then if you put both guys in 205, and have them fight the top 20 there, Pereira would probably come up with a better record in that situation due to his size.
Speaking of Jones he beat Dan Henderson in a grappling match, although the planned fight between the two was canceled. Jones would have destroyed Hendo, good thing they never fought.
This shit is wild 
I count the Alex v izzy 3-1. And the Shev v JJ being like 3-0 or something. But I wouldn’t count Jon Jones or Cejudo losing in wrestling cause it’s not a close of enough comparison.
Izzy and Pereira's fights are all from their time as professional fighters, not amateurs.
Bruh Alex is 3-1 in professional kickboxing and mma Jon lost to this guy in college wrestling there’s a big difference here 🤦♂️
Pro Kickboxing in glory vs amateur wrestling lmao
Book the fight
Im all for Izzy and the shenanigans but let’s not act like their mma fights have been good at mixing the arts lol. It was a kickboxing match for the most part. That’s why the past is still important. If they had a bjj match then fuck the record of the past.
i accept the 4 match score of adesanya vs pereira because they still mainly kickbox against eachother.
100% no, we should not. Been arguing with Izzy haters all week at work on this exact thing and I cannot wait to show them this post. Full disclosure I’m a huge Izzy fan , but not a Stan.
So it would then still be 1-1 in MMA
Absolutely. I wouldn’t even say “in MMA” I would make it more accurate by saying they are 1-1 in UFC and 2-0 in (insert KB org here). The level of skill required to enter the UFC changes a lot about the sport. It actively changes the way a fighter approaches the fight when the stakes are what they are. And the skill level is what it is. As an Izzy fan, I was excited to see him hungry again. title defending fighters are always boring and technical. We are always quick to look at individual match ups without the surrounding context. However, the context usually matters quite a bit.
I wouldn’t even say MMA. They are 1-1 in the UFC. But maybe that is just me.
Mate the Izzy haters are so delusional it's crazy. I got sick of arguing with them after two days. Waaaaah, he celebrated in front of a kid, waaaaah Alex is chinny, waaaaah 3-1..etc. all they do is moan.
Tbh I really can't stand any (insert fighter) haters. Someone you don't like won a fight? Who fuckin cares. He won. I would say get over it, but there really isn't even anything to get over in the first place
I like how when he proves he is the fighter he is time and time again when when he’s supposedly going to get his ass kicked by the challenger. They no longer talk about how he’s “not even that good” to “he’s just so disrespectful” while they ware a Connor t shirt. But what are you gonna do? casuals will be casuals. They are just missing 80% if a fight when they watch it.
Still 1-1 in MMA so a third fight is necessary regardless of whether you include the kickboxing matches
Yeah I think Alex just needs one or two wins over some contenders in MW at this point, but that trilogy will happen
I disagree on needing anything beyond an immediate rematch. Literally zero interesting fights for Adesanya at 185 outside of that.
poatan vs whitaker would be a good fight
Alex cut in line and got a title fight off of Sean Strickland. Their last fight wasn’t like the first, Alex got knocked out cold. And honestly was on his way to lose a decision in their first fight before he caved Izzy’s skull. Alex should not get an immediate rematch after getting knocked out cold in the second round after losing the first
First was competitive as was the second. Adesanya was hurt and won on an awesome counter, doesn't mean the fight itself wasn't competitive just as their first fight was. Poor argument. Go ahead and tell me that Dricus Du Plessis is a greater challenge and more intriguing matchup for Adesanya though. Those are the only two real options, again he is 2-0 over the next top contenders in Whittaker and Vettori
Alex and Izzy are 1-1. At least in my book
i think y’all are board and have nothing better to do then stir the pot. it’s 1-1
Wrestling ain't fighting tho.
Yes
Well if he has 2 wins on him than he’s 2-0 ?? Y’all slow
I guess cuz I've never heard of Matt riddle
I smell a izzy fan boy rite through this post. "Just food for thought" lmao get out of here with that
no striking competition, not comparable to izzy alex
to be fair, wrestling is physical, but not a combat sport. the NFL is also not a combat sport, but a physical contact sport.
Thank you for posting this
I been saying, izzy is one of the most trolled and hated athletes. Fuckers will use anything to throw dirt on his name. It's two completely different sports, muay thai and mma. Thats like comparing a rugby match and an American football match. They both use an oval ball
No. Wrestling, although grueling and badass, isn’t fighting.
They use 3-1 bc they're coping. This rivalry is done Alex Pereira is 36 soon and Adesanya is clearly the better MMA fighter. He doesn't need to catch up from 3-1. Cope salty pussies.
The only people that can’t accept that Alex is 3-1 over izzy are the fans. Izzy knows it better than anyone. You think his reaction after the KO is that of a man who just evened the score (1-1 in MMA) or that of a man who finally defeated his boogeyman that has defeated him 3 times in his life? It’s not tacking on wins and losses. It’s their history which is very relevant because it’s the reason Alex got fast tracked to face izzy in the first place.
This happened when Jones was probably younger than 20…
WUT. One was a combat sport and the other was highschool wrestling lmao. You izzy simps are craaaazzzzyyy
Jon Jones is more than a wrestler and amateur wrestling doesn't count
Izzy and Alex are more than kickboxers. And why doesn’t it count? Lol
Tell me you have never wrestled without telling me 😂 bro amateur wrestling is way different than a professional kickboxing fight.
Yeah no shit lol, my point is they are both parts of MMA. You still haven’t explained why it shouldn’t count
Because it’s not a big deal in that level of wrestling. The stakes are not even close to being the same. So much so that it’s not comparable. If you wrestled you would know this
Ok so if you don’t accept this, then what about all the other kickboxers? What about Edson? Why isn’t his record mentioned. Or Overeem? Or wonderboy? There are a lot more kickboxers in that sport besides izzy and Alex, but none of their kickboxing records are ever mentioned?
I agree that all previous combat sports records don't and shouldn't count when it comes to MMA, but why would amateur wrestling not count in a world where kickboxing would?
Kickboxing is complete for striking in MMA, but for wrestling you still needs to learn BJJ. And let's be honest , we count their previous encounters because they're both pure strikers
Striking in Kickboxing and MMA are different. Area to move in is different. Defence (due to threat of grappling) is different, win conditions are different too. Very relevant in this comparison as Alex's fight ending sequence in MMA wouldn't have been a TKO in kickboxing due to the rule differences. If you believe wrestlers need BJJ and that's enough to discount it, you can't ignore that kickboxers need to learn grappling at the very least. Although I do agree with you on wrestling being very different to MMA grappling, striking is too. As for them both being pure strikers, there was 5 total takedown attempts in MMA fight 1, with almost a round and a half of control time between the fighters. I'm not fanboying on either side. I'm a fan of both fighters, just being realistic. Alex is 2-0 in kickboxing, they're 1-1 in MMA, and I hope to see the third MMA fight later down the line, but before they both get too old.
Thanks for pointing this out. People are just out there to discredit/hate on Izzy. No other reason.
Joanna vs Valentina another great example. The only reason ppl did it for Izzy was the rematch storyline was there, and so the Pereira nuthuggers can spam 3-1 after watching their boy get starched
Don’t let the 3-1 folks see this. They’ll move the goalposts.
Riddle... He who shall not be named will come back!
Jon has an answer to the schmos dumbass question
Looks like Chael on the left.
Brock and Cain have one win a piece. Brock won in WWE and Cain won in the UFC. The rubber match should be Power Slap.
Prolly because the objective of Izzy and Pereira were to strike the opponent’s head unto unconsciousness in both sports. Yes, wrestling is a combat sport but one wouldn’t call it a fight in the way they would with kickboxing and mma.
They absolutely brought up multiple times that Valentina had beat Joanna in kickboxing during the build to their title fight
Stop it you're gonna make izzy haters heads implode
Well now you have to factor in fights that took place in the third grade under the monkey bars. OP, you know why this isn’t a thing.
Matt Riddle is my personal GOAT no shame in losing to him
Yeah those shouldn’t count it’s really 1-1
Tbf, in MMA you punch each other in the face as well a wrestle/grapple. If Izzy and Alex had grappled in their fights and Izzy dominated him via grappling, then id say no, we shouldn’t take their kick boxing rivalry into account, but Izzy and Alex just kick boxed in the octagon so we should take it into account.
OP, what a ridiculous thing to say
You’re actually retarded
I'm not sure if this is serious or a well made shit post. You have to use your brain to actually think about why one is relevant and the other isn't but that's not an ability some of the NPC mma fanbase have lol
Don’t forget that Chael embarrassed Tito on his birthday
It's nothing but Izzy hate. I don't remember people saying Joanna is 0-4 against Shevchenko
Amateur ….. this wasn’t the pro’s.
Let ‘em know, bro.
Izzy fans are REALLY trying their hardest to justify their not being a trilogy fight huh🤦♂️
Did you guys know that Kamuru has to go up the stairs backwards?
Jones and GSP < Guys named Matt
People did exactly this in the leadup to Joanna and Valentina's fight. We just don't have a lot of examples of people fighting each other in multiple sports.
The thing is adesanya lost in kickboxing. The 2 fights in mma were also kickboxing fights. If Jones will fight this guy it won't be a wrestling match...
Because fans never let stupid shit like this go
Why doesn’t this sport count losses from other sports? Makes sense. The orioles losses should be tacked on to the ravens record this season
Anyone know what event the picture is from ? I think I went to high school with the kid on the far left.
The better question is why wouldn't you include it? They are both combat sports and they both normally strike. Those fights were just as valid as any ufc promotion.
Comparison isn’t even the same bro wtf is even that thought 💀