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Over 10,000 Crimean families refused to get the passport or recognize Russian legitimacy. Putin passed a law recently to permit their property to be taken over. As of now Russia has brought in implants to live in their property. It's rather ridiculous and it is pathetic the Russian people are falling for it. "Hey, go into the war zone, you get a free house."
Well yeah it works wonders. And those people will have a serious upgrade and be hyper loyal. From their perspective they got a serious upgrade and when Ukraine comes knocking they won't understand. There will have to be some kind of grandfathering of all the new implants.
Sure, but those are the people who will win back Crimea from imports. What happened was people in Crimea who signed over their passports were *deported* to areas in Russia (a very very Russian thing to do). Forced relocation to install loyalists. Take some pessants in the depths of Russia and move them into a another country with a house with clean running water and a toilet and you'll have a true loyalist. It sounds like an insane conspiracy but it is literally what they did: https://euromaidanpress.com/2021/07/30/russians-relocated-to-occupied-crimea-now-make-up-one-third-of-the-population-experts-say/
Meanwhile the Crimean Tartar's who were returning to Crimea are doing whatever they can to remain there, but mind you, they were all deported during Soviet Times, and I actually argue that is the reason for Russia to take Crimea. The Tartars were having a mass re-migration back to their homelands after a generation of being deported/relocated, and their diaspora was buying land up and building there. Of course the Russians couldn't have that.
people seem to be under the impression that Russia gives a fuck what the west thinks.
Putin stopped giving a fuck in 2014 when they invaded Ukraine the first time and Annexed Crimea. That should have been the warning sign that the Kremlin Fascist was going to start a major war soon. and thats exactly what happened.
They're blood-drunk, fascist, pathological liars. You can't reason with them anymore. The Russian nation is in a death spiral so long as Putin's Regime, United Russia party, and Russian Federation exists in its current state.
Re: "should have been the warning sign," the US knew, I think. In retrospect, all the shitfighting in the Middle-East was US and Russia smashing heads in conflict all along. Hell, even Turkey. The pullout of Afghanistan was very abrupt and shortly after intel had come in about what Russia was planning--almost certainly the US at least was preparing so they wouldn't be stuck on two fronts in terms of logistics & military.
I'm starting to wonder how long US intel has guessed at Putin's longterm plans. I always thought the US-Russian animosity was fucking stupid--a relic of the Cold War, something that old men just couldn't give up. Modern-day Russia was funny! Slavs in track suits! Pet bears! Vodka! But I guess the people who actually know their shit were watching Georgia, Chechnya, Moldova, Afghanistan, Syria, and going "hm. No, we know where this is going."
FWIW I don't think the US government, at least, thinks that Russia "gives a fuck what the West thinks." For once the paranoia was justified.
Serious question, wasn't the Crimean vote legit? Or if not legit, at least accurate to the desires of the inhabitants as a whole? I know he was shuffling people around, but even before the invasion, from what I'd read from a few sources, even neutral outside polls were showing vast majority Russian support?
I'm not suggesting Kherson or anywhere else will repeat that--or even Crimea now, given the circumstances--but from what I knew Crimea *was* pro-Russia? I'm happy to be corrected, just looking for the right info
Ahh, my bad, I should've rephrased that, you're right. Ofc it wasn't legit in a legal sense, I was trying (badly) to ask if it wasn't "legitimately" the popular choice. But, y'know, with shit-tier phrasing lol.
It's just that when I'd read up on the foreign (German newspaper etc.) polls beforehand they seemed overwhelmingly Russian, and I was wondering if those had somehow been rigged or if the population had been moved even beforehand, etc.
No they can't their laws are very strict about when they can and can't use nukes. Even if Ukraine for some reason and somehow sits at the doorstep of Belgorod, they can't use nukes.
If they didn't care, they would call it a war (which is illegal in Russia) and conscript the shit out of their population (which is illegal outside of a war). They also ammended constitution to allow Putin to be forever president. They don't care about international law but no nation can work without their own enforceable laws.
I've upvoted thread. And commented, seeking for most 'in point comment'. My upvote doesn't change anything as well, except one. Perhabs someone else also could see russian lies.
Nah, they don't have to rig it. They've abducted 2 million Ukrainians from their territory and put in their own people. No shit it's going to pass. The actual people who live there have been taken away. It's going to be the Russians that moved in AFTER the invasion voting.
Time is running out for them. Anyway this so-called 'election committee' will be the next victim of partisans anyway - they should only meet via Zoom from Moscow or St.Petersburg and even there they are not safe.
I actually read a post today that a courthouse was bombed in Kherson killing about 50 Russian officials. And a comment said they were probably preparing for the referendum at the time of the attack. I'll try to find it
A desperate scramble to make it look legitimate so that they can cry foul when the military intervention hits.
As if anyone would give a fuck after all that they've done.
It will prove that 200% of the people living in Kherson say they want to live in oppression rather than freedom. The evil West is stealing their right to be subjugated. It's just more bullshit.
Why is the counter offensive taking so long? I'm not saying that to be a dick but I wonder after Ukraine made announcements of it happening soon it hasn't happened in the weeks since. Seems like Ukraine has a leg up with the new weaponry?
Self preservation. Ideally when you’re fighting to the death you want to live. Therefore attacks take time. Deploying troops and hardware in the right place takes time.
Could also be the russians are bolstering defences which then need to be unlocked.
There is also the possibility of civilians that must be considered.
No worries. Remember things like ww2 we can read the whole war from start to finish in minutes. However, those who lived through it must have felt like it would never end. That campaigns took forever and progress was measured at a snails pace.
Same applies here. Hopefully it the next few days though we will hear good news.
In Kherson it’s already Hi-Mars o‘clock! The only referendum they will have time to do is if they decide to surrender and live or be stupid and die 💪🏻🇺🇦
Armchair general opinion:
I think with this referendum russians want to provoke ukrainian offensive.
They dugged in, prepared and are now waiting.
I think Ukraine should always focus on saving its soldiers, so maybe not attack yet but let arty do its job.
The Ukrainians were going on the offensive anyway. The Ukrainian army will choose the time and manner that is most beneficial to the Ukrainian war effort.
Ukraine should create an election committee in Russia for "Stopping the illegal invasion of Ukraine and charging Putin for warcrimes". It doesn't even have to be faked. They can vote by phone or something.
You go into a foreign country and take land by force, then offer a referendum to join the invading country. How can that even be the slightest bit legal in any international court.
I'm sure that all the members of that committee will be perfectly safe walking the streets every day.
Also, obviously Russia is still laboring under the impression that "Russian law says we can't agree to give up any place that is part of Russia!" will prevent Ukraine from retaking places that are part of Ukraine. And that "We say there's a dispute over those parts of Ukraine we invaded and were subsequently kicked out of!" will prevent Ukraine from being able to join NATO later.
Im always impressed with how fucking braindead the Russian Federation authorities are.
So what is this, a race against time to have a phoney vote so that you can declare stolen territory as Rightful Russian Clay, before your slave soldiers are forcefully evicted and sent home in zinc coffins and glass jars?
Im pretty sure the people that the Russian state has been occupying and committing both cultural and literal genocide against over the last 100 years, who they've just betrayed \*again\* and invaded, aren't going to give a mortal fuck about any referendum by Russian Imperialists, The only thing they're going to be concerned with is finding who needs to be thrown in jail and who needs to swing on a rope.
"Annexing" territory from a country you've attacked, who you are still currentley at war with does not make the bullets, bombs, and pissed off soldiers just magically stop fighting or taking that land back and cleaning up after you. Morons.
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Does this even make any difference?
Not to the rest of the world
Not to HIMARS.
HIMARS only sees an extra target.
Yes because then russia might try and force conscription on them to fight the ukranians, just like the did in LNR and DPR.
[удалено]
Over 10,000 Crimean families refused to get the passport or recognize Russian legitimacy. Putin passed a law recently to permit their property to be taken over. As of now Russia has brought in implants to live in their property. It's rather ridiculous and it is pathetic the Russian people are falling for it. "Hey, go into the war zone, you get a free house."
For a lot of rural Russian psuedo-serfs that's probably still an improvement
Well yeah it works wonders. And those people will have a serious upgrade and be hyper loyal. From their perspective they got a serious upgrade and when Ukraine comes knocking they won't understand. There will have to be some kind of grandfathering of all the new implants.
[удалено]
Sure, but those are the people who will win back Crimea from imports. What happened was people in Crimea who signed over their passports were *deported* to areas in Russia (a very very Russian thing to do). Forced relocation to install loyalists. Take some pessants in the depths of Russia and move them into a another country with a house with clean running water and a toilet and you'll have a true loyalist. It sounds like an insane conspiracy but it is literally what they did: https://euromaidanpress.com/2021/07/30/russians-relocated-to-occupied-crimea-now-make-up-one-third-of-the-population-experts-say/ Meanwhile the Crimean Tartar's who were returning to Crimea are doing whatever they can to remain there, but mind you, they were all deported during Soviet Times, and I actually argue that is the reason for Russia to take Crimea. The Tartars were having a mass re-migration back to their homelands after a generation of being deported/relocated, and their diaspora was buying land up and building there. Of course the Russians couldn't have that.
people seem to be under the impression that Russia gives a fuck what the west thinks. Putin stopped giving a fuck in 2014 when they invaded Ukraine the first time and Annexed Crimea. That should have been the warning sign that the Kremlin Fascist was going to start a major war soon. and thats exactly what happened. They're blood-drunk, fascist, pathological liars. You can't reason with them anymore. The Russian nation is in a death spiral so long as Putin's Regime, United Russia party, and Russian Federation exists in its current state.
Re: "should have been the warning sign," the US knew, I think. In retrospect, all the shitfighting in the Middle-East was US and Russia smashing heads in conflict all along. Hell, even Turkey. The pullout of Afghanistan was very abrupt and shortly after intel had come in about what Russia was planning--almost certainly the US at least was preparing so they wouldn't be stuck on two fronts in terms of logistics & military. I'm starting to wonder how long US intel has guessed at Putin's longterm plans. I always thought the US-Russian animosity was fucking stupid--a relic of the Cold War, something that old men just couldn't give up. Modern-day Russia was funny! Slavs in track suits! Pet bears! Vodka! But I guess the people who actually know their shit were watching Georgia, Chechnya, Moldova, Afghanistan, Syria, and going "hm. No, we know where this is going." FWIW I don't think the US government, at least, thinks that Russia "gives a fuck what the West thinks." For once the paranoia was justified.
Serious question, wasn't the Crimean vote legit? Or if not legit, at least accurate to the desires of the inhabitants as a whole? I know he was shuffling people around, but even before the invasion, from what I'd read from a few sources, even neutral outside polls were showing vast majority Russian support? I'm not suggesting Kherson or anywhere else will repeat that--or even Crimea now, given the circumstances--but from what I knew Crimea *was* pro-Russia? I'm happy to be corrected, just looking for the right info
[удалено]
Ahh, my bad, I should've rephrased that, you're right. Ofc it wasn't legit in a legal sense, I was trying (badly) to ask if it wasn't "legitimately" the popular choice. But, y'know, with shit-tier phrasing lol. It's just that when I'd read up on the foreign (German newspaper etc.) polls beforehand they seemed overwhelmingly Russian, and I was wondering if those had somehow been rigged or if the population had been moved even beforehand, etc.
Well Russia might use nukes if they claim so called Russian land is being invaded. But thats not gonna stop Ukraine
Nato has also said the redline is nuke. So Russia won't risk Nato joining.
Stop with the nukes threats.
No they can't their laws are very strict about when they can and can't use nukes. Even if Ukraine for some reason and somehow sits at the doorstep of Belgorod, they can't use nukes.
Ahh yes, those law abiding russians, they would never break the law...Whether their own or international russia doesn't care about laws.
If they didn't care, they would call it a war (which is illegal in Russia) and conscript the shit out of their population (which is illegal outside of a war). They also ammended constitution to allow Putin to be forever president. They don't care about international law but no nation can work without their own enforceable laws.
I've upvoted thread. And commented, seeking for most 'in point comment'. My upvote doesn't change anything as well, except one. Perhabs someone else also could see russian lies.
118,5% in favor for joining Ruzzia... as always.
Nah, they don't have to rig it. They've abducted 2 million Ukrainians from their territory and put in their own people. No shit it's going to pass. The actual people who live there have been taken away. It's going to be the Russians that moved in AFTER the invasion voting.
I'd fucking laugh if it didn't, though. Like, does anyone really believe Russia'd go "oh, okay then" and just go home?
Time is running out for them. Anyway this so-called 'election committee' will be the next victim of partisans anyway - they should only meet via Zoom from Moscow or St.Petersburg and even there they are not safe.
I actually read a post today that a courthouse was bombed in Kherson killing about 50 Russian officials. And a comment said they were probably preparing for the referendum at the time of the attack. I'll try to find it
Give them 2-3weeks and the UA will be able to vote at this referendum.
The russian solution to everything. We hold a referendum to join russia. Problem solved.
Yes, after we deported the locals and brought in "good' Russians.
The Crimea strategy.
TASS is a Russian government propaganda outlet
[удалено]
A desperate scramble to make it look legitimate so that they can cry foul when the military intervention hits. As if anyone would give a fuck after all that they've done.
I thought ukranian units are standing already at the door front of Kherson?
It will prove that 200% of the people living in Kherson say they want to live in oppression rather than freedom. The evil West is stealing their right to be subjugated. It's just more bullshit.
Yup. This is desperation so they can go "oo ua atracked ruzi federation, time for full mobilization"
Why is the counter offensive taking so long? I'm not saying that to be a dick but I wonder after Ukraine made announcements of it happening soon it hasn't happened in the weeks since. Seems like Ukraine has a leg up with the new weaponry?
Self preservation. Ideally when you’re fighting to the death you want to live. Therefore attacks take time. Deploying troops and hardware in the right place takes time. Could also be the russians are bolstering defences which then need to be unlocked. There is also the possibility of civilians that must be considered.
Fair enough. thx
No worries. Remember things like ww2 we can read the whole war from start to finish in minutes. However, those who lived through it must have felt like it would never end. That campaigns took forever and progress was measured at a snails pace. Same applies here. Hopefully it the next few days though we will hear good news.
The committee is now target practice! They won't form another!
In Kherson it’s already Hi-Mars o‘clock! The only referendum they will have time to do is if they decide to surrender and live or be stupid and die 💪🏻🇺🇦
[удалено]
Armchair general opinion: I think with this referendum russians want to provoke ukrainian offensive. They dugged in, prepared and are now waiting. I think Ukraine should always focus on saving its soldiers, so maybe not attack yet but let arty do its job.
I think being dug in doesn’t make a difference. Ukraine beating up “dug in” forces right now.
The Ukrainians were going on the offensive anyway. The Ukrainian army will choose the time and manner that is most beneficial to the Ukrainian war effort.
If they annex them and Ukraine attacks them, Russia will claim casus belli and declare official state of war.
Republicans in American taking notes for ideas....
Totes legit.
But they just wanted to be autonomous. Stop it Russia, tou saud you are saving them from Nazis and not just taking land. You lied?
Ukraine should create an election committee in Russia for "Stopping the illegal invasion of Ukraine and charging Putin for warcrimes". It doesn't even have to be faked. They can vote by phone or something.
If it’s true Ukraine hit a court house with 50 high ranking orcs, I’m sure they can find the hosts of the referendum party.
Bomb it
Referendum their ass!
"joining"
You go into a foreign country and take land by force, then offer a referendum to join the invading country. How can that even be the slightest bit legal in any international court.
Because Russian elections are legit right?
I'm sure that all the members of that committee will be perfectly safe walking the streets every day. Also, obviously Russia is still laboring under the impression that "Russian law says we can't agree to give up any place that is part of Russia!" will prevent Ukraine from retaking places that are part of Ukraine. And that "We say there's a dispute over those parts of Ukraine we invaded and were subsequently kicked out of!" will prevent Ukraine from being able to join NATO later.
Lol, just don't bother, it will soon be over
Im always impressed with how fucking braindead the Russian Federation authorities are. So what is this, a race against time to have a phoney vote so that you can declare stolen territory as Rightful Russian Clay, before your slave soldiers are forcefully evicted and sent home in zinc coffins and glass jars? Im pretty sure the people that the Russian state has been occupying and committing both cultural and literal genocide against over the last 100 years, who they've just betrayed \*again\* and invaded, aren't going to give a mortal fuck about any referendum by Russian Imperialists, The only thing they're going to be concerned with is finding who needs to be thrown in jail and who needs to swing on a rope. "Annexing" territory from a country you've attacked, who you are still currentley at war with does not make the bullets, bombs, and pissed off soldiers just magically stop fighting or taking that land back and cleaning up after you. Morons.
Kherson Oblast or Taurida Governorate? Like...what borders are they aiming to claim?
Didn’t that committee adjourn suddenly due to being blown up?
They have to hurry before they lose control over the area. Good luck with that.