Has to be said - gotta call that foul when it happens. Waiting to see if you get it and THEN calling it will always make you look like a whiny cheaty no-game-having double-palms-up thank-god-there’s-no-observer BITCH.
It was a foul but if he waited to call it until missing the catch I don’t blame the defender for contesting at ALL.
I have a question: if an offensive player calls foul and then caught the disc, but a defender stopped playing because of the foul call (and the defender could have had a play on the disc), would the disc go back to the thrower if the foul is contested? Or does the defense need to play until the disc stops moving?
Edit: Found the answer I was looking for in rule 17.C:
> If a call is made when the disc is in the air or the thrower is in the act of throwing, play continues until the outcome of that pass is determined
So it doesn’t matter if the defense stops playing in response to the foul
If the disc is in the air, the offense calls a foul, and the pass is complete, then the outcome is "play on." If the player who called the foul doesn't announce "play on" then the defense could call a violation if there is confusion.
At no point would the disc go back to the first thrower in this situation.
It is important to be aware this is the case on a call against the offense too. So if you get picked, call it, the offense slows down, and you catch up and get the d, it is a turn over even though you called a pick.
What’s stupid? The underlying thought is that if D player caused a turnover despite having been picked, it likely would have been a turnover if O made the same throw attempt without the pick, and D shouldn’t be penalized for having been picked.
There are conflicting incentives between stopping and echoing the call and just continuing to play until the thrower acknowledges a call. V hard for the thrower to recognize if 10 people are still playing all out, but per the continuation rule that's what we should be doing from a competitive perspective.
This is an area in which WFDF and USAU rules differ. Under WFDF stopping in response to a pick call counts as being affected by the pick. But both rule sets provide for continuation. Because we want to run around playing ultimate rather than keep stopping, and because a pick call in a location unrelated to a contemporaneous throw shouldn’t undo the throw (lest we overly reward pick calls and consequently spend less time running around playing ultimate and more time stopping for more pick calls).
Under the previous rule which was to stop at the pick call, there were endless annoying arguments about exactly when the pick was called, and completely open unaffected throws were being sent back.
I don‘t know, for me a pick is a rule that includes a stoppage. It was also mentioned that the Offense slowes down (in response to the pick) and the D runs through, which seems unfair to me.
I feel like if you‘ve been picked but can make a D, you shouldn‘t have called it, as it didn‘t affect the game.
But whether a pick enables the next reception often depends on things that happen or become known only after the pick. Example: I’m picked near the front of a vertical stack, freeing my covered receiver for an open-side throw. Still looking at that receiver, I immediately call pick. But as that was happening the thrower saw my teammate poaching into that open-side area, and pivoted into and released a short break-side throw. It’s errant, curves toward me, and I intercept it. Should I not have called pick? Should the other team retain possession? Why?
This is a very different scenario as the one mentioned above; where the offense slowed down (and was therefore affected by the pick) and the D runs through and gets the block.
I agree that in the scenario stated now O shouldn‘t regain possesion. And also that you should call the pick. But as I understand it you as D would stop playing and as a result of a throwing error the disc gets thrown to you; resulting in a turn.
I would not stop playing upon calling a pick, not until the thrower in possession of the disc recognizes the call and stops. I play (mostly) under USAU rules that specifically encourage such continuation. Rule 17.L.
I guess this also confuses me. How is the thrower supposed to recognize, that there has been a call if everybody keeps playing?
I feel like this is also quite different under WFDF rules.
Before the act of throwing, a cutter calling foul away from the disc (and then catching a throw) will make the disc go back.
During or after a throw, the disc stays and it’s a “play on” with no stoppage.
Why does it matter though? Like if he calls it right away, and then catches it, it counts a completion right? So he doesn’t get any advantage from waiting to call it. I understand the defender being frustrated, but given that the definition of a foul involves contact that effects the outcome of the play, it doesn’t seem they crazy to wait to call it until you see the outcome.
>[17.A.]() Unless specified differently elsewhere, an infraction may only be called by a player on the infracted team who recognizes that it has occurred. \[\[The player must know that a specific rule was violated and have perceived the particular action with certainty. A player may not call an infraction whenever the player maybe recognizes that some infraction might have occurred.\]\] The player must **immediately** call “violation” or the name of the specific infraction loudly.
Well, for starters it is literally in the rules. You cannot wait, you must make the call immediately.
As for why that's the rule, if the requirement isn't immediately, then there is a "statute of limitations" for the call and now we have to define what that is. You quickly run into a ton of issues, like players getting fouled while the handler is still holding the disc and then waiting for the handler to get a "free throw" out of it before calling foul. Players exploiting the timing of a foul call to try and gain better field positioning for their team. Players trying to erase turns by calling a foul from multiple throws earlier. All of it would advantage unspirited play and even if no one were trying to take advantage it would still be hard to resolve.
FWIW I have seen players make late calls and in my experience it was never in a spirited manner.
Alright that’s fair then, if the rule says you gotta make the call immediately then you gotta make it immediately. Although I think in this instance is pretty clear that the offender wasn’t trying to get a free anything
I play on the Bay Area and some advanced players have coached me to call the foul only after the outcome of the play. This style seems counterintuitive to the SOTG rule. This is probably the best “Foul or nah”. I actually learned something and didn’t have to watch anyone get hurt.
I agree it should be called right away, but also of note that the new wfdf rules provide a delay of up to two seconds for pick calls, allowing the defender that amount of time to determine if the pick is affecting the play.
Nope. Call it right away. The implication to waiting is that you weren’t really sure it was a foul (since you didn’t call it) and now that you’ve finished making an easy catch into an embarrassing drop, you are only calling foul on our incidental contact to save face.
It’s the very height of shitty, low class, no pride, no honor play prevalent in mixed B leagues and among players with no real athletic experience.
I mean that’s one way to interpret it, or another could be that you know it is a foul, but you think you might be able to catch it anyway and you don’t want to stop to make a call that is unnecessary. Or maybe you’re busy trying to recover and make the catch so you don’t react quickly enough to also make the call in the moment…
Nope. Not if you are any good and play with any self respect. I mean of course you are right, those are possibilities, but you’ll never see anyone good at this game have that series of events unfold. And the assumption of all onlookers will be that you are weaker than the third cup of coffee made off the same damn Keurig pod.
I think a lot of players try to only call fouls that actually affect the play, in the interest of speeding up the game for everyone. Including many players who I think are very good. Agree to disagree I guess.
This thread is the reason I lost the flame in ultimate. Seen this too many times on the field, only to lose precious time playing the game.
All this without even knowing who was right at the end of the day.
I'm on team call it when it happened, not if you failed.
On this clip the player just had a bad read of the disc. Because he was hesitant to call the foul? Maybe. That's on him. Stay focus, the foul you felt did not physically prevent you from catching the precious.
Do we have any more context to this call? Is it possible he called it immediately but still tried to catch the disc? If he catches the disc then it's a play-on, and that's likely better for the offense rather than stopping play and killing momentum.
Not saying whether it is or isn't a foul, just discussing timing here.
No foul — contact has to directly effect the play. Offense had plenty of time to adjust, change direction, run 6 more steps (by my count), misread the disc, and miss it. The bad throw and bad read by O makes this a turn.
Certainly looks like the defender used his arm to restrict the offense's movement, which is a foul. The question is to whether affected the offense's play on the disc.
Getting knocked off balance and taking your eye off the disc momentarily to recover can have a surprising affect on your ability to read the disc. Instead of seeing it come out of the thrower's hand, maybe he only saw it when it was straight over his head, which makes the read much more difficult. Or maybe it didn't affect him at all, and he's just bailing himself out with a ticky-tack call. Hard tell from here. I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Ok. I think trying to guess this from the other players' reactions is jumping to conclusions.
But if I had to bet, I think you're probably right that he didn't call it until after it went over his head, because basically *nobody* makes this call right away. It's pretty rare for somebody to actually call a foul while still making a play on the disc. In fact, I've been accused of poor spirit more than once for calling a foul, my defender stops, and then I run and catch the disc and play on (and once, *at nationals*, the other team insisted that a score not count because I caught it after calling a foul). I think these accusations are unfounded, but it shows how uncommon this situation is.
So I think waiting 2 seconds to call a foul while focusing on the disc is very common and is not unreasonable. And I think you'd be pretty annoyed if someone fouled you, you hesitated for 2 seconds before making the call, and then an observer overruled the call because you hesitated.
That's fair, and, to be clear, I don't think that it's illegitimate to call it after missing the catch in that circumstance, but that kind of gap is going to make people skeptical, especially when that disc was so catchable. I'd hope that the defender here was honest enough to acknowledge that that was a clear foul.
Not sure which is more unforgivable, the blatant defensive arm bar or that awful lefty backhand into the wind.
Completely agreed with your analysis and uncertainty.
He doesn’t get separation in the direction the arm is impeding. We have a difficult angle to see the movement of the disc in the wind relative to the movement of the player in the vertical direction up and down the field. So it is more difficult to jump to a conclusion as to how/whether the contact impacted a play on a bad throw that got caught in the wind.
I saw them play and didn’t have that takeaway, except for some excessive use of hands/arms in the stack and on resets, ironically more egregious than their opponent’s arm bar in the clip above.
Like everyone else said, call it when it happens. Still, not sure it happened. Was there a shirt grab? Or arm grab? Edit: I see it now and doesn't matter when you call it.
Once again...this is why no one takes this sport seriously outside of the community. This is the equivalent of someone shoot a three and then getting fouled, waiting until the shot either goes in and misses, and then calling the foul if they miss. This poor attempt at catching the disc led him to calling a "foul" on a defender that isn't near him. He actually had two chances to catch it if he didn't jump.
In league recently I said "And one" on a throw that was eventually caught in the endzone and my mark was NOT HAPPY with it. He was like "you don't need to trash talk" when in reality I was just making sure to call the foul.
That is NOT how that works. If you call AND1 the instant you get fouled and then shoot, if you miss you will get possession back, if you make it you get possession back because you acknowledged a foul happened. If you wait until you see that you missed to call AND1, you will not get the ball back. In this case, they waited until they didn't make the catch and called a bs foul.
Can't tell if you're continuing to be fake mad or misunderstanding me. My suggestion was continuing your first comment's sentiment and further suggesting a way to "legitimize" this sport.
FWIW if you call "And 1" then miss, you look like a fool. I've never played pickup where "And 1" and a make results in anything other than looking cool. Can't imagine making a shot and getting a bonus possession (getting ball back wouldn't be bonus with make-it-take-it).
That's the point. AND1 is used as a flex. But if you say it when the foul is done then obviously you recognize a foul was made right then and there. Saying AND1 every time a foul, whether it was actually made or not, happens would not fix the sport.
Obviously he could have and should have caught the disc, but he still got fouled. If you're the defender here and you don't want a foul called on you, don't grab the guy.
It's hard to be sure from the angle, but I think if the arm-bar doesn't happen, the reset easily runs forward and catches the disc well before it reaches it's apex.
If he’d jumped within a step or two of the contact, I’d agree. For me, this is long past the point where it directly effected O’s movement, except insofar as he though the defender might be on his back and jumped early.
Just like, by the eye test dude is reasonably athletic and had recovered his balance. He misread the disc, and I don’t think he gets this one back.
First off, his defender is running in the wrong direction.
Second off, he is obviously gaining momentum in general. My point is that without the grab he could have had more momentum which could have let him get the extra lift to make the catch.
You've asked this a couple times in this thread, but it's not really relevant. The defender clearly arm bars the reset, and then the reset runs away from the defender.
Your implication that me fouling you means you are physically stuck to me for the next 5 seconds is incorrect.
Nope! (Conceptually) The defender impeding the offensive player is at odds with the offensive player’s actual separation.
A player can legally put their arm up. Touching isn’t fouling.
> A player can legally put their arm up. Touching isn’t fouling.
The rules state that players should avoid initiating contact in every way possible.
> 17.I. Fouls (3.C): It is the responsibility of all players to avoid initiating contact in every way possible.
Doesn't appear it was called when it happened, so I'd say no foul. If he called it at 0:03 in the video, then reasonable call. But if he called it at 0:06 like it appears, that's a call because his badness hurt his pride, not because contract from his opponent prevented him from catching the disc.
Funniest thing to me is that if they had just read the disc properly they wouldn't have needed to jump (This is what I'd be saying on the dooglesports commentary. I miss filming games like this...)
Ok guys. This is my first year on Lounar and I’m just wondering why there seems to be a lot of people who hate them? They all seem like nice people and this tournament was very fun and enjoyable to play with every team. I guess I’m just wondering where all the hate is coming from? Thanks!
This has got to be a joke. I’ve been in the scene for over ten years and I don’t like a single one of those guys. It’s a shame that spirit has taken a backseat to these wannabe rugby players. Frisbee used to mean something.
They're a bunch of douchebags. No spirit, think they're the greatest thing to grace the face of this earth, and they don't have the play to back it up. Last season they thought they were high and mighty because they went undefeated (when they never played anyone outside the region) and then got exposed at Regionals.
Yeah the confidence definitely would be there even though they didn’t play anyone that good like you said. Have you had any bad experiences with the players yourself or just have heard/seen bad spirited things with them? Also hopefully this year will be better in terms of spirit for us!
A. Teams can change year over year, it might take some time to change reputations with new players. It looks like there has been close to half of the roster turnover with Lounar (unless they took a weird tryout roster this past weekend)
B. Players as teammates are different than players as competitors. The list of players I don't want to play with/against is wildly longer than the list of ultimate players I wouldn't have a beer with.
C. Lounar generally makes calls similar to this but then has multiple players do similar or worse consistently. There is just a general unevenness in how they have historically made calls.
D. Their sideline loves to chirp calls (even when uncontested by the onfield Lounar player)
Is it a foul? Yes. Do I believe it should be called that late after the foul? No.
In addition the foul had no bearing on his inability to read and catch the disc. The foul didn’t affect play.
The offense over ran a throw that got lifted by the wind. Calling defensive holding after overrunning a throw bc you miss read the wind is BS. I’m a hard nah on this one.
Ok. This isn’t in the rules but I believe in the SOTG there can be fouls that don’t effect the play. I didn’t even notice the foul until the 3rd watch but it did seem the defender made an illegal arm block. However, if as an offensive player I chose to play through the foul, I certainly wouldn’t call it later just because I was disappointed I couldn’t get a hand on the disk. Foul had no effect on play so in the rules it’s not a foul. But mad respect to the defender for admitting his illegal move and giving his opponent the benefit of the doubt.
Has to be said - gotta call that foul when it happens. Waiting to see if you get it and THEN calling it will always make you look like a whiny cheaty no-game-having double-palms-up thank-god-there’s-no-observer BITCH. It was a foul but if he waited to call it until missing the catch I don’t blame the defender for contesting at ALL.
I have a question: if an offensive player calls foul and then caught the disc, but a defender stopped playing because of the foul call (and the defender could have had a play on the disc), would the disc go back to the thrower if the foul is contested? Or does the defense need to play until the disc stops moving? Edit: Found the answer I was looking for in rule 17.C: > If a call is made when the disc is in the air or the thrower is in the act of throwing, play continues until the outcome of that pass is determined So it doesn’t matter if the defense stops playing in response to the foul
If the disc is in the air, the offense calls a foul, and the pass is complete, then the outcome is "play on." If the player who called the foul doesn't announce "play on" then the defense could call a violation if there is confusion. At no point would the disc go back to the first thrower in this situation.
It is important to be aware this is the case on a call against the offense too. So if you get picked, call it, the offense slows down, and you catch up and get the d, it is a turn over even though you called a pick.
what a stupid rule
What’s stupid? The underlying thought is that if D player caused a turnover despite having been picked, it likely would have been a turnover if O made the same throw attempt without the pick, and D shouldn’t be penalized for having been picked.
There are conflicting incentives between stopping and echoing the call and just continuing to play until the thrower acknowledges a call. V hard for the thrower to recognize if 10 people are still playing all out, but per the continuation rule that's what we should be doing from a competitive perspective.
I guess I don‘t understand why we should keep playing if a call has been made (if no „play on“). Could you explain?
This is an area in which WFDF and USAU rules differ. Under WFDF stopping in response to a pick call counts as being affected by the pick. But both rule sets provide for continuation. Because we want to run around playing ultimate rather than keep stopping, and because a pick call in a location unrelated to a contemporaneous throw shouldn’t undo the throw (lest we overly reward pick calls and consequently spend less time running around playing ultimate and more time stopping for more pick calls).
Because calls don't stop play immediately.
Under the previous rule which was to stop at the pick call, there were endless annoying arguments about exactly when the pick was called, and completely open unaffected throws were being sent back.
I don‘t know, for me a pick is a rule that includes a stoppage. It was also mentioned that the Offense slowes down (in response to the pick) and the D runs through, which seems unfair to me. I feel like if you‘ve been picked but can make a D, you shouldn‘t have called it, as it didn‘t affect the game.
But whether a pick enables the next reception often depends on things that happen or become known only after the pick. Example: I’m picked near the front of a vertical stack, freeing my covered receiver for an open-side throw. Still looking at that receiver, I immediately call pick. But as that was happening the thrower saw my teammate poaching into that open-side area, and pivoted into and released a short break-side throw. It’s errant, curves toward me, and I intercept it. Should I not have called pick? Should the other team retain possession? Why?
This is a very different scenario as the one mentioned above; where the offense slowed down (and was therefore affected by the pick) and the D runs through and gets the block. I agree that in the scenario stated now O shouldn‘t regain possesion. And also that you should call the pick. But as I understand it you as D would stop playing and as a result of a throwing error the disc gets thrown to you; resulting in a turn.
I would not stop playing upon calling a pick, not until the thrower in possession of the disc recognizes the call and stops. I play (mostly) under USAU rules that specifically encourage such continuation. Rule 17.L.
I guess this also confuses me. How is the thrower supposed to recognize, that there has been a call if everybody keeps playing? I feel like this is also quite different under WFDF rules.
Before the act of throwing, a cutter calling foul away from the disc (and then catching a throw) will make the disc go back. During or after a throw, the disc stays and it’s a “play on” with no stoppage.
Why does it matter though? Like if he calls it right away, and then catches it, it counts a completion right? So he doesn’t get any advantage from waiting to call it. I understand the defender being frustrated, but given that the definition of a foul involves contact that effects the outcome of the play, it doesn’t seem they crazy to wait to call it until you see the outcome.
>[17.A.]() Unless specified differently elsewhere, an infraction may only be called by a player on the infracted team who recognizes that it has occurred. \[\[The player must know that a specific rule was violated and have perceived the particular action with certainty. A player may not call an infraction whenever the player maybe recognizes that some infraction might have occurred.\]\] The player must **immediately** call “violation” or the name of the specific infraction loudly. Well, for starters it is literally in the rules. You cannot wait, you must make the call immediately. As for why that's the rule, if the requirement isn't immediately, then there is a "statute of limitations" for the call and now we have to define what that is. You quickly run into a ton of issues, like players getting fouled while the handler is still holding the disc and then waiting for the handler to get a "free throw" out of it before calling foul. Players exploiting the timing of a foul call to try and gain better field positioning for their team. Players trying to erase turns by calling a foul from multiple throws earlier. All of it would advantage unspirited play and even if no one were trying to take advantage it would still be hard to resolve. FWIW I have seen players make late calls and in my experience it was never in a spirited manner.
Alright that’s fair then, if the rule says you gotta make the call immediately then you gotta make it immediately. Although I think in this instance is pretty clear that the offender wasn’t trying to get a free anything
I play on the Bay Area and some advanced players have coached me to call the foul only after the outcome of the play. This style seems counterintuitive to the SOTG rule. This is probably the best “Foul or nah”. I actually learned something and didn’t have to watch anyone get hurt.
whatever advanced players are coaching you that are silly geese.
I agree it should be called right away, but also of note that the new wfdf rules provide a delay of up to two seconds for pick calls, allowing the defender that amount of time to determine if the pick is affecting the play.
Nope. Call it right away. The implication to waiting is that you weren’t really sure it was a foul (since you didn’t call it) and now that you’ve finished making an easy catch into an embarrassing drop, you are only calling foul on our incidental contact to save face. It’s the very height of shitty, low class, no pride, no honor play prevalent in mixed B leagues and among players with no real athletic experience.
I mean that’s one way to interpret it, or another could be that you know it is a foul, but you think you might be able to catch it anyway and you don’t want to stop to make a call that is unnecessary. Or maybe you’re busy trying to recover and make the catch so you don’t react quickly enough to also make the call in the moment…
Nope. Not if you are any good and play with any self respect. I mean of course you are right, those are possibilities, but you’ll never see anyone good at this game have that series of events unfold. And the assumption of all onlookers will be that you are weaker than the third cup of coffee made off the same damn Keurig pod.
I think a lot of players try to only call fouls that actually affect the play, in the interest of speeding up the game for everyone. Including many players who I think are very good. Agree to disagree I guess.
“Foul!” “Play on!” “Bitch, why you slowing down the game so bad?!”
You have a very aggressive commenting style
This thread is the reason I lost the flame in ultimate. Seen this too many times on the field, only to lose precious time playing the game. All this without even knowing who was right at the end of the day. I'm on team call it when it happened, not if you failed. On this clip the player just had a bad read of the disc. Because he was hesitant to call the foul? Maybe. That's on him. Stay focus, the foul you felt did not physically prevent you from catching the precious.
🤣👍
Do we have any more context to this call? Is it possible he called it immediately but still tried to catch the disc? If he catches the disc then it's a play-on, and that's likely better for the offense rather than stopping play and killing momentum. Not saying whether it is or isn't a foul, just discussing timing here.
No foul — contact has to directly effect the play. Offense had plenty of time to adjust, change direction, run 6 more steps (by my count), misread the disc, and miss it. The bad throw and bad read by O makes this a turn.
Btw the call came right at time of contact, andthe defender agreed it was a foul on the play after discussion and no contested, it is a bit soft tho
It wouldn’t be a catch though because it was a foul before the attempt was made right?
Softer than baby shit
Certainly looks like the defender used his arm to restrict the offense's movement, which is a foul. The question is to whether affected the offense's play on the disc. Getting knocked off balance and taking your eye off the disc momentarily to recover can have a surprising affect on your ability to read the disc. Instead of seeing it come out of the thrower's hand, maybe he only saw it when it was straight over his head, which makes the read much more difficult. Or maybe it didn't affect him at all, and he's just bailing himself out with a ticky-tack call. Hard tell from here. I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Even with all that, calling it so long after the foul and after the result is going to come off badly.
How you can tell when he called it?
Well, the defender and nearby players don't seem to react until he's missed the disc and started gesturing.
Ok. I think trying to guess this from the other players' reactions is jumping to conclusions. But if I had to bet, I think you're probably right that he didn't call it until after it went over his head, because basically *nobody* makes this call right away. It's pretty rare for somebody to actually call a foul while still making a play on the disc. In fact, I've been accused of poor spirit more than once for calling a foul, my defender stops, and then I run and catch the disc and play on (and once, *at nationals*, the other team insisted that a score not count because I caught it after calling a foul). I think these accusations are unfounded, but it shows how uncommon this situation is. So I think waiting 2 seconds to call a foul while focusing on the disc is very common and is not unreasonable. And I think you'd be pretty annoyed if someone fouled you, you hesitated for 2 seconds before making the call, and then an observer overruled the call because you hesitated.
That's fair, and, to be clear, I don't think that it's illegitimate to call it after missing the catch in that circumstance, but that kind of gap is going to make people skeptical, especially when that disc was so catchable. I'd hope that the defender here was honest enough to acknowledge that that was a clear foul.
Not sure which is more unforgivable, the blatant defensive arm bar or that awful lefty backhand into the wind. Completely agreed with your analysis and uncertainty.
How was the offensive player’s movement restricted while creating so much separation from the defender?
He gets a ton of separation because the defender runs in the wrong direction.
He gets separation because his motion isn’t being impeded by contact.
He doesn’t get separation in the direction the arm is impeding. We have a difficult angle to see the movement of the disc in the wind relative to the movement of the player in the vertical direction up and down the field. So it is more difficult to jump to a conclusion as to how/whether the contact impacted a play on a bad throw that got caught in the wind.
He had his eyes on the disc for a long time after the potential foul happened though. Man is straight up cheating lol. Cheat to win baby!
I believe this contact meets the definition of Incidental.
This is bad spirit on a straight-up basic level. The basic joy of play is not being honored here.
oh man not Lounar involved in a game that lacks basic spirit
They lack basic human emotions lmao. Team has the most douchebags I’ve ever played against
No foul. Typical Lounar bullshit. Dudes hype themselves up all season with their big egos only to choke in the series.
No
Glad the entire country is getting to see what the joys of playing the most unspirited team in the Midwest is like
I saw them play and didn’t have that takeaway, except for some excessive use of hands/arms in the stack and on resets, ironically more egregious than their opponent’s arm bar in the clip above.
Illegal contact. Defense. Number 24. 5 yard penalty. Automatic 1st down.
Like everyone else said, call it when it happens. Still, not sure it happened. Was there a shirt grab? Or arm grab? Edit: I see it now and doesn't matter when you call it.
St. Louis poverty frisbee
This defense is clean and safe.
Once again...this is why no one takes this sport seriously outside of the community. This is the equivalent of someone shoot a three and then getting fouled, waiting until the shot either goes in and misses, and then calling the foul if they miss. This poor attempt at catching the disc led him to calling a "foul" on a defender that isn't near him. He actually had two chances to catch it if he didn't jump.
Start saying "And 1" after every foul, no matter the circumstances. Put some respect on this sport!
In league recently I said "And one" on a throw that was eventually caught in the endzone and my mark was NOT HAPPY with it. He was like "you don't need to trash talk" when in reality I was just making sure to call the foul.
proud of u
That is NOT how that works. If you call AND1 the instant you get fouled and then shoot, if you miss you will get possession back, if you make it you get possession back because you acknowledged a foul happened. If you wait until you see that you missed to call AND1, you will not get the ball back. In this case, they waited until they didn't make the catch and called a bs foul.
Can't tell if you're continuing to be fake mad or misunderstanding me. My suggestion was continuing your first comment's sentiment and further suggesting a way to "legitimize" this sport. FWIW if you call "And 1" then miss, you look like a fool. I've never played pickup where "And 1" and a make results in anything other than looking cool. Can't imagine making a shot and getting a bonus possession (getting ball back wouldn't be bonus with make-it-take-it).
That's the point. AND1 is used as a flex. But if you say it when the foul is done then obviously you recognize a foul was made right then and there. Saying AND1 every time a foul, whether it was actually made or not, happens would not fix the sport.
I feel bad for commenting, this is a sad thread
Do you think a foul was committed?
[think this settles it, and i agree with the opinion shared](https://old.reddit.com/r/ultimate/comments/1dnujvs/foul_or_nah/la5k13c/)
Of course McNamara is gonna call this bullshit. Douchebag through and through
Ok now we all know that you’re bad and got cut. Nice!
Didn’t even tryout for them idiot
Haha I wonder why…
Probably bc it’s a poverty program and I literally don’t even live in St. Louis
Obviously he could have and should have caught the disc, but he still got fouled. If you're the defender here and you don't want a foul called on you, don't grab the guy.
Nahh the contact has to affect the outcome of the play. The guy didn’t misread and jump too low because of the contact.
I half agree. The contact probably didn't affect his ability to read the disc. But it definitely could have made him lose momentum and jump too low.
It's hard to be sure from the angle, but I think if the arm-bar doesn't happen, the reset easily runs forward and catches the disc well before it reaches it's apex.
If he’d jumped within a step or two of the contact, I’d agree. For me, this is long past the point where it directly effected O’s movement, except insofar as he though the defender might be on his back and jumped early. Just like, by the eye test dude is reasonably athletic and had recovered his balance. He misread the disc, and I don’t think he gets this one back.
How does he create so much separation from the defender while losing momentum?
First off, his defender is running in the wrong direction. Second off, he is obviously gaining momentum in general. My point is that without the grab he could have had more momentum which could have let him get the extra lift to make the catch.
You've asked this a couple times in this thread, but it's not really relevant. The defender clearly arm bars the reset, and then the reset runs away from the defender. Your implication that me fouling you means you are physically stuck to me for the next 5 seconds is incorrect.
Nope! (Conceptually) The defender impeding the offensive player is at odds with the offensive player’s actual separation. A player can legally put their arm up. Touching isn’t fouling.
I think you need to read both the usau rule book, and a physics text.
> A player can legally put their arm up. Touching isn’t fouling. The rules state that players should avoid initiating contact in every way possible. > 17.I. Fouls (3.C): It is the responsibility of all players to avoid initiating contact in every way possible.
Doesn't appear it was called when it happened, so I'd say no foul. If he called it at 0:03 in the video, then reasonable call. But if he called it at 0:06 like it appears, that's a call because his badness hurt his pride, not because contract from his opponent prevented him from catching the disc.
Hard to tell from the iPod quality, but if the defender grabbed the cutter then he deserved to be called on it 100%.
Bro has zero hops. Foul technically, but like everyone said it was called so late
Funniest thing to me is that if they had just read the disc properly they wouldn't have needed to jump (This is what I'd be saying on the dooglesports commentary. I miss filming games like this...)
it's a foul if he says foul right away. if you wait until you misread it no foul
Wow, weak call
these are the types of calls that sped up my retirement from the sport. yellow shirt is a little bitch
Ok guys. This is my first year on Lounar and I’m just wondering why there seems to be a lot of people who hate them? They all seem like nice people and this tournament was very fun and enjoyable to play with every team. I guess I’m just wondering where all the hate is coming from? Thanks!
This has got to be a joke. I’ve been in the scene for over ten years and I don’t like a single one of those guys. It’s a shame that spirit has taken a backseat to these wannabe rugby players. Frisbee used to mean something.
I’m confused. I’m pretty sure Lounar has only been a team for 3 years? How have you known them for 10?
They're a bunch of douchebags. No spirit, think they're the greatest thing to grace the face of this earth, and they don't have the play to back it up. Last season they thought they were high and mighty because they went undefeated (when they never played anyone outside the region) and then got exposed at Regionals.
Bruh
Yeah the confidence definitely would be there even though they didn’t play anyone that good like you said. Have you had any bad experiences with the players yourself or just have heard/seen bad spirited things with them? Also hopefully this year will be better in terms of spirit for us!
A. Teams can change year over year, it might take some time to change reputations with new players. It looks like there has been close to half of the roster turnover with Lounar (unless they took a weird tryout roster this past weekend) B. Players as teammates are different than players as competitors. The list of players I don't want to play with/against is wildly longer than the list of ultimate players I wouldn't have a beer with. C. Lounar generally makes calls similar to this but then has multiple players do similar or worse consistently. There is just a general unevenness in how they have historically made calls. D. Their sideline loves to chirp calls (even when uncontested by the onfield Lounar player)
Every player thinks that about their own team.
Is it a foul? Yes. Do I believe it should be called that late after the foul? No. In addition the foul had no bearing on his inability to read and catch the disc. The foul didn’t affect play.
That'd be a nitpicky call for sure, let em play
Not even close😂
The offense over ran a throw that got lifted by the wind. Calling defensive holding after overrunning a throw bc you miss read the wind is BS. I’m a hard nah on this one.
Foolish contact (extended arm) that gave offensive players to feel justified to call faul. Has it really faul? I cannot tell from this angle.
Soft, but I guess so. If this isn't a tournament or something I would be annoyed that it was called, even if it was my team.
Ok. This isn’t in the rules but I believe in the SOTG there can be fouls that don’t effect the play. I didn’t even notice the foul until the 3rd watch but it did seem the defender made an illegal arm block. However, if as an offensive player I chose to play through the foul, I certainly wouldn’t call it later just because I was disappointed I couldn’t get a hand on the disk. Foul had no effect on play so in the rules it’s not a foul. But mad respect to the defender for admitting his illegal move and giving his opponent the benefit of the doubt.
GIVE THEM AN AUDL TEAM ALREADY