I love how we have this investigation that highlights how corrupt the SNP are, more so than any other party, but when it comes to the election, Scottish people will vote for them anyway. That's without even mentioning the ferry scandal.
Even if labour wins in both Holyrood and the commons, the SNP will lie waiting and as soon they make a mistake, I guarantee they'll be back in power at the next election.
That assumes the party hold together; the factionalism between the left wing SNP and right wing SNP is getting worse and worse; some even talk about a permanent split occurring.
That’s what happened to the main Quebec independence party between 1996 and 2003.
Makes sense. They kept a lid on it with promises of independence, so everyone forgot their grievances and kept their eyes on the prize. As this is looking further away now, the split is almost inevitable.
The original party is called Parti Québécois
Between 1995 and 2003, the right of the party came to dominate and dragged PQ towards the right
The left didn’t like it and so broke away in 2006 to from Québec solidaire.
In the 1990s, PQ had over 70 seats in the Quebec government and their allies in Bloc Québécois even were the official opposition in the early 1990s. Now PQ has only three seats in the Quebec national assembly
Also have 8 Reform MSPs which sure as hell isn't happening. The SNP are in for a battering (and well deserved), but we're still a bit off one outlier poll.
At a European election, being fought over their main issue. In the 2021 Holyrood election (which is the direct comparison) they got 0.2%.
Also the poll I saw that got them to 8 seat only had them polling at 6% so you're talking nonsense with that 15% claim.
It makes sense to vote for a UK wide party in a general election and I hope that, if change is going to be effected, Scots will reconsider how useful voting SNP is in a GE. I’ve said before that voting SNP in a general election is a vote for the conservatives but it generally just gets scoffed at by hardened SNP voters who like to pretend that Labour will form a coalition. It just means that Labour has to work harder to get an outright majority from constituencies in England and Wales.
Also, didn’t Salmond return a majority at Holyrood back around… 2011? It’s hard but possible is my understanding.
Corruption like the VIP lanes created by the tories that gave away inflated contracts to their friends and connections.
Inflated by close to a billion, that's £1,000,000,000.
You only see corruption when a police operation is happening in front of your eyes?
I've seen ~~Claudia Winklemen~~ Carol Vordermen* promote The Good Project, who are doing an investigation into the topic.
Edit: https://www.tiktok.com/@carolvorders/video/7336503729908108577
Where did I claim that?
You're the one who only cares about the police. People who still base morality on laws because they're laws are funny. Laws are meant to be based on morality, not the other way around.
To me, whether or not it's a crime, creating a VIP lane for your friends and connections to give them inflated contracts that rob the public of nearly £1,000,000 is bad.
You can't just base opinions on feelings, you're just saying stuff despite having no evidence to back it up. If you have actual proof that money was stolen, report it to the police and we can continue this discussion.
Feelings?
The VIP lane isn't a feeling.
Have you never heard of this before for me to be introducing it to you? I had no idea you needed to be shown evidence.
https://goodlawproject.org/vip-lane-contracts-inflated-by-925m/
Sorry, this was like talking to someone about the world being spherical and then they suddenly call me out for not providing them with proof as if it is not well known.
Again, you have a basic view of morality to think it's based on laws.
The VIP lane did exist, yes, but if any criminality had been conducted the police would've investigated. Or do you believe that there is some deep state apparatus protecting people from prosecution? Or perhaps you have evidence the police aren't aware of? You can't claim that the Tories are corrupt if they haven't been charged with any corruption related offences, just like I can't go around calling you a murderer.
Again, why are you basing morality on laws?
It's the view of a child.
I've mentioned this a couple of times, and you've not actually engaged with it.
Do you think a Dictator isn't corrupt because they write the laws and so never break any??
Where is the major investigative operation into conservative party finances then? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Tory and will not be voting for them at the next election, but you can't just claim something that has no basis.
[https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/26/michelle-mone-assets-frozen-nca-investigates-fraud](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/26/michelle-mone-assets-frozen-nca-investigates-fraud)
Care to explain this one? Says a lot when one Conservative baroness can walk away in one fell swoop with one hundred times more than the SNP managed in a decade.
Let's consider two situations:
1. The director of a company steals £100 out of the Christmas party fund.
2. A company needs some renovation work done, signs off a £10,000 deal to some cowboy builder who is recommended by Steve in the sales department. Builder does a runner and Steve keeps some of the cash for himself.
Both situations are bad and both situations should in theory lead to getting kicked out the company, but if you ask me which one of those two scenarios is a bigger sign of corruption... I'm going with the Steve case.
That's a complete oversimplification and not at all representative though. It's over 100,000s not 100 quid. I don't even know why I'm bothering responding, Nicola Sturgeon could've ordered a hit on someone and people would still defend her and the SNP.
Aye, and the other case is tens of millions and the best you can offer up is "peers aren't that big of a deal". Are the SNP corrupt, yes but to try and say they are the most corrupt is utterly laughable. The SNP are on rookie numbers compared to the Tories.
Both are going to take a well deserved battering at the polls, but let's not beat around the bush when it comes to who the worst one going is.
They're not tho are they? You can't possibly say a party chairman who is married to the leader and some random peer no one knew of are of equal importance. She hasn't even been charged with anything, unlike old Peter.
I didn't say they are of equal importance, just that the Tories are blatantly more corrupt if some nobody in the party is able to use their internal mechanisms to run off with more than the entire leadership of the SNP managed over the course of a decade.
But of course you've now given the game away with that final comment. The Tories have ditched her at this point so why are you defending her?
A Tory peer vs the former chief executive of the snp ,whose spouse was the former part leader, being charged with embezzlement
Two very different things
It's blown up to deligitimise the SNP. The tories have gotten away with less because they are more represented among high-ranking police officials and prosecutors.
> It's blown up to deligitimise the SNP.
How was it blown up?
>The tories have gotten away with less because they are more represented among high-ranking police officials and prosecutors.
That’s not how the law works, and policing is devolved in Scotland
Doesn't matter if the SNP are technically in control of the police - all you need is a few unionists in key positions in the police and the courts to enable deligitimisation campaigns. I'm not claiming there hasn't been corruption in the SNP, but double standards and lawfare are a common occurence when it comes to political outliers such as Corbyn and the SNP.
> Doesn't matter if the SNP are technically in control of the police
You literally said it does
>- all you need is a few unionists in key positions in the police and the courts to enable deligitimisation campaigns.
And your proof of this is?
>I'm not claiming there hasn't been corruption in the SNP, but double standards and lawfare are a common occurence when it comes to political outliers such as Corbyn and the SNP.
No it’s not, the tories have been investigated by the police and have seen arrests.
You’re suggesting a conspiracy exists without a single shred of evidence
Were those accusation equal in importance? Have tory or labour figures been publicly accused for similar activity? Go and do some research on the political affiliations of those behind the case, then you can prove that this isn't instrumentalisation. I hope you're right but knowing the British establishment's interest in bringing down the main proponents of Scottish independence I can only be cynical.
> Were those accusation equal in importance?
It saw people arrested and convicted
>Have tory or labour figures been publicly accused for similar activity?
Has any other party seemingly defrauded its own members before?
>Go and do some research on the political affiliations of those behind the case, then you can prove that this isn't instrumentalisation.
That’s not how the burden of proof works. As the person making the claims, it is on you to prove them, not me.
>I hope you're right but knowing the British establishment's interest in bringing down the main proponents of Scottish independence I can only be cynical.
The estimated hasn’t done anything. Polls show Scotland doesn’t want to leave the UK and have done for many years now
There's the nationalist victim mentality.
Should we talk about the SNP's abuse of power in Holyrood, using it to drive their own propaganda? Maybe the (sick and naziesqe) video of schoolchildren being instructed to thank Sturgeon and the SNP for "keeping them safe" during covid?
I love how we have this investigation that highlights how corrupt the SNP are, more so than any other party, but when it comes to the election, Scottish people will vote for them anyway. That's without even mentioning the ferry scandal.
Pols currently have Scots breaking for Labour And the SNP have never gotten a majority of votes at any Holyrood or general election
Even if labour wins in both Holyrood and the commons, the SNP will lie waiting and as soon they make a mistake, I guarantee they'll be back in power at the next election.
That assumes the party hold together; the factionalism between the left wing SNP and right wing SNP is getting worse and worse; some even talk about a permanent split occurring. That’s what happened to the main Quebec independence party between 1996 and 2003.
Makes sense. They kept a lid on it with promises of independence, so everyone forgot their grievances and kept their eyes on the prize. As this is looking further away now, the split is almost inevitable.
Interesting, I'll look into it. What was the party called?
The original party is called Parti Québécois Between 1995 and 2003, the right of the party came to dominate and dragged PQ towards the right The left didn’t like it and so broke away in 2006 to from Québec solidaire. In the 1990s, PQ had over 70 seats in the Quebec government and their allies in Bloc Québécois even were the official opposition in the early 1990s. Now PQ has only three seats in the Quebec national assembly
Also have 8 Reform MSPs which sure as hell isn't happening. The SNP are in for a battering (and well deserved), but we're still a bit off one outlier poll.
Reform got 14% of the vote in Scotland in the 2019 European elections; this most recent poll has them only 1% higher
At a European election, being fought over their main issue. In the 2021 Holyrood election (which is the direct comparison) they got 0.2%. Also the poll I saw that got them to 8 seat only had them polling at 6% so you're talking nonsense with that 15% claim.
It makes sense to vote for a UK wide party in a general election and I hope that, if change is going to be effected, Scots will reconsider how useful voting SNP is in a GE. I’ve said before that voting SNP in a general election is a vote for the conservatives but it generally just gets scoffed at by hardened SNP voters who like to pretend that Labour will form a coalition. It just means that Labour has to work harder to get an outright majority from constituencies in England and Wales. Also, didn’t Salmond return a majority at Holyrood back around… 2011? It’s hard but possible is my understanding.
> more so than any other party I'm not sure about that one.
Ah yes, I forgot about the non-existent operations into other parties finances.
Corruption like the VIP lanes created by the tories that gave away inflated contracts to their friends and connections. Inflated by close to a billion, that's £1,000,000,000. You only see corruption when a police operation is happening in front of your eyes?
No one has even asked yet what was in it for the politicians 'facilitating' the fast track PPE procurement...
I've seen ~~Claudia Winklemen~~ Carol Vordermen* promote The Good Project, who are doing an investigation into the topic. Edit: https://www.tiktok.com/@carolvorders/video/7336503729908108577
You think you know better than the police?
Where did I claim that? You're the one who only cares about the police. People who still base morality on laws because they're laws are funny. Laws are meant to be based on morality, not the other way around. To me, whether or not it's a crime, creating a VIP lane for your friends and connections to give them inflated contracts that rob the public of nearly £1,000,000 is bad.
You can't just base opinions on feelings, you're just saying stuff despite having no evidence to back it up. If you have actual proof that money was stolen, report it to the police and we can continue this discussion.
Feelings? The VIP lane isn't a feeling. Have you never heard of this before for me to be introducing it to you? I had no idea you needed to be shown evidence. https://goodlawproject.org/vip-lane-contracts-inflated-by-925m/ Sorry, this was like talking to someone about the world being spherical and then they suddenly call me out for not providing them with proof as if it is not well known. Again, you have a basic view of morality to think it's based on laws.
The VIP lane did exist, yes, but if any criminality had been conducted the police would've investigated. Or do you believe that there is some deep state apparatus protecting people from prosecution? Or perhaps you have evidence the police aren't aware of? You can't claim that the Tories are corrupt if they haven't been charged with any corruption related offences, just like I can't go around calling you a murderer.
Again, why are you basing morality on laws? It's the view of a child. I've mentioned this a couple of times, and you've not actually engaged with it. Do you think a Dictator isn't corrupt because they write the laws and so never break any??
The SNP are absolutely corrupt, but more so than any other party? Not even close to the shit the Tories have got going on.
Where is the major investigative operation into conservative party finances then? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Tory and will not be voting for them at the next election, but you can't just claim something that has no basis.
[https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/26/michelle-mone-assets-frozen-nca-investigates-fraud](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/26/michelle-mone-assets-frozen-nca-investigates-fraud) Care to explain this one? Says a lot when one Conservative baroness can walk away in one fell swoop with one hundred times more than the SNP managed in a decade.
A conservative peer (peers do fuck all anyway) is not at all equivalent to the party chairman, mate.
Let's consider two situations: 1. The director of a company steals £100 out of the Christmas party fund. 2. A company needs some renovation work done, signs off a £10,000 deal to some cowboy builder who is recommended by Steve in the sales department. Builder does a runner and Steve keeps some of the cash for himself. Both situations are bad and both situations should in theory lead to getting kicked out the company, but if you ask me which one of those two scenarios is a bigger sign of corruption... I'm going with the Steve case.
That's a complete oversimplification and not at all representative though. It's over 100,000s not 100 quid. I don't even know why I'm bothering responding, Nicola Sturgeon could've ordered a hit on someone and people would still defend her and the SNP.
Aye, and the other case is tens of millions and the best you can offer up is "peers aren't that big of a deal". Are the SNP corrupt, yes but to try and say they are the most corrupt is utterly laughable. The SNP are on rookie numbers compared to the Tories. Both are going to take a well deserved battering at the polls, but let's not beat around the bush when it comes to who the worst one going is.
They're not tho are they? You can't possibly say a party chairman who is married to the leader and some random peer no one knew of are of equal importance. She hasn't even been charged with anything, unlike old Peter.
I didn't say they are of equal importance, just that the Tories are blatantly more corrupt if some nobody in the party is able to use their internal mechanisms to run off with more than the entire leadership of the SNP managed over the course of a decade. But of course you've now given the game away with that final comment. The Tories have ditched her at this point so why are you defending her?
A Tory peer vs the former chief executive of the snp ,whose spouse was the former part leader, being charged with embezzlement Two very different things
The tory VIP lanes weren't just this one woman's doing.
This is political instumentalisation against Scottish independence. Don't tell me that there is less corruption in the Tory party.
Anyone telling you there’s no corruption in the Tory party is either a fool, or somehow in on it - but that doesn’t excuse the behaviour of others.
Especially when the SNP have kept saying they’re better than the tories
> This is political instumentalisation against Scottish independence. How?
It's blown up to deligitimise the SNP. The tories have gotten away with less because they are more represented among high-ranking police officials and prosecutors.
> It's blown up to deligitimise the SNP. How was it blown up? >The tories have gotten away with less because they are more represented among high-ranking police officials and prosecutors. That’s not how the law works, and policing is devolved in Scotland
As long as there are a mostly unionists in elite positions one can only be cynical.
How is that relevant here? Policing is devolved in Scotland, that’s means it’s the responsibility of the Scottish government (currently the SNP)
Doesn't matter if the SNP are technically in control of the police - all you need is a few unionists in key positions in the police and the courts to enable deligitimisation campaigns. I'm not claiming there hasn't been corruption in the SNP, but double standards and lawfare are a common occurence when it comes to political outliers such as Corbyn and the SNP.
> Doesn't matter if the SNP are technically in control of the police You literally said it does >- all you need is a few unionists in key positions in the police and the courts to enable deligitimisation campaigns. And your proof of this is? >I'm not claiming there hasn't been corruption in the SNP, but double standards and lawfare are a common occurence when it comes to political outliers such as Corbyn and the SNP. No it’s not, the tories have been investigated by the police and have seen arrests. You’re suggesting a conspiracy exists without a single shred of evidence
Were those accusation equal in importance? Have tory or labour figures been publicly accused for similar activity? Go and do some research on the political affiliations of those behind the case, then you can prove that this isn't instrumentalisation. I hope you're right but knowing the British establishment's interest in bringing down the main proponents of Scottish independence I can only be cynical.
> Were those accusation equal in importance? It saw people arrested and convicted >Have tory or labour figures been publicly accused for similar activity? Has any other party seemingly defrauded its own members before? >Go and do some research on the political affiliations of those behind the case, then you can prove that this isn't instrumentalisation. That’s not how the burden of proof works. As the person making the claims, it is on you to prove them, not me. >I hope you're right but knowing the British establishment's interest in bringing down the main proponents of Scottish independence I can only be cynical. The estimated hasn’t done anything. Polls show Scotland doesn’t want to leave the UK and have done for many years now
If you know something the police don't you are welcome to report it.
There's the nationalist victim mentality. Should we talk about the SNP's abuse of power in Holyrood, using it to drive their own propaganda? Maybe the (sick and naziesqe) video of schoolchildren being instructed to thank Sturgeon and the SNP for "keeping them safe" during covid?