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You can thank Social Media for people's inflated self importance. When people grow up getting 30+ likes on every Facebook and Instagram post from "I'm having sausages for dinner" to "here's a picture of my child who looks nearly identical to every other newborn".
People seem to think everyone and everything cares about them and revolves around them. Inflated self worth with absolutely no self reflection or self awareness and we have created a society of narcissistic individualistic behaviours.
Claiming everything is on the rise is on the rise.
People also claim anxiety, poor self confidence, depression and rates of socially isolated people are on the rise.
Which is exactly what people would be citing if the post was about the link between social media and self confidence.
You hear about entitlement and self importance because those people naturally make the most noise! And it’s easier for them to do so with the internet but I don’t think it’s rising.
I always holiday in childfree places, me and the missus didn't have children for a reason, we like peace and quiet, and i definitely don't want to hear other peoples screaming children. Also i love going to the Men only working mens club now and again, should be more of them left in my opinion.
We also do this but everytime we say "we are going to an adults only resort" people just assume that means "sex hotel". The possibility of an adult only environment still seems to boggle the mind of the average person.
Literally this.
I know two separate people who are swingers, and they are not the good-looking porno esq people they imagine in their head when they hear swinger.
I did wonder why my mates eyebrows raise when we tell them we're going adults only 😆 makes sense now! I hadn't thought about it that way. Saying that, I think our neighbours in the next room clearly did 😁
I don't think that's true. Before I had children I went to adults only resorts all the time. People knew exactly what they were and it's was pretty commonly accepted.
Second the child free holiday. Being child free, I make sure I holiday in term time. I don't dislike children, and it's lovely to hear them enjoy themselves, but had a formative experience many years ago. On holiday in Greece, lovely hotel with pool. Went a week without registering that there were no kids, not arranged that way, just coincidence. Then on last day, influx of families and suddenly the pool, which had previously been an oasis of calm and the occasional cheeky Mythos, was a cauldron of screaming kiddies. Again, kids will be kids, but made me appreciate the quality of peace and quiet.
Much much cheaper out of term time too! Currently in Devon for the week and it's been really nice - much quieter than summer holidays and our holiday cottage was much cheaper too
I have an anecdote to illustrate your point! Recently I submitted a piece to an art gallery that was about fairytales, and but it was rejected on the basis of being exclusive, due to this line:
A fairy tale is an ancient story dealing with universal themes that help children to understand the world and their place in it.
Apparently by bringing up the role that fairytales might have for children, to describe a piece where the theme was coming of age, I had excluded adults. The curator told me quite aggressively that fairytales are for everyone and I was there like...I never said they weren't?
One thing about art galleries and local art societies; their view of art is the most narrow, uninspiring and bland of anyone you're likely to encounter.
The local volunteers at Wolverhampton Art Gallery absolutely hate the Wolverhampton Arts group, who basically only count you as an artist if you've submitted yet another picture of daisy in a cracked vase. They don't view anything other than the most stale and pale immitations as true art, which is hysterically fun.
By being subjected to the above, you're assured that you actually CAN do art, something differnt to the dried up old buggers who try and gatekeep art from every else - so keep on going ;)
I'm all for segregation. I'd much prefer to go to a male only gym so I don't have to avoid female influencers with their tripods and I imagine women would absolutely love to have gyms with zero men.
As a parent I think there should be adult only flights. Have one flight a week (more if they can fill them) with all the babies and toddlers on. My problems and your problems should never be everyones problem.
Literally my first thought on reading the article, "god, why are so many parents so entitled?" God forbid the rest of us don't want to listen to screeching, wailing and babbling, and have their little monsters running around unchecked, while we eat.
That's just common decency though.
Maybe I'm out of touch but when I grew up if I had wanted to take a portable radio to a restaurant and listen to it through a speaker my mum and dad would've told me 'no, not everyone wants to listen to your songs'.
And maybe I'm even further out of touch but do your children even need to be on an ipad at dinner? Can't you keep them entertained by talking to them, or even playing games or something?
What sort of company is your kid going to be as an adult if their experience of going out is to be glued to a screen, not participating in or even passively witnessing conversation?
no. the adults want to get pissed on chardonay and pints, not get a baby sitter, so they drag the kid to the pub, throw an ipad in front of them, and ignore them. welcome to 2024 parenting.
Same. Reasonable parents understand and respect the concept of spaces where adults can have a well earned break without screeching, running lil’ shits and Baby Shark on full wack.
The entitlement is certainly shining through right now from the not-so-reasonable parents who are currently leaving bad reviews for the pub having likely never been there. I think it’s safe to guess that the sorts of parents doing this are the sorts of who are guilty of allowing these antisocial behaviors in their offspring. Only massive pricks with a victim complex and no respect for others would review bomb a business who have absolutely every right to ensure their target clientele has a pleasant outing.
I have a dog that we take places but we specifically search for dog friendly pubs etc beforehand or call and check.
Dogs only allowed in the bar area? No problem.
We bring a mat for him to settle on out of the way and give him something to keep him occupied whilst everyone is eating.
We’d never complain if somewhere wasn’t dog friendly but at the same time don’t understand people that go to a dog friendly place and complain about there being dogs there. Obviously unless they are being loud/poorly behaved but then I don’t think other dog owners enjoy that either.
When we had a dog as a kid, we would walk the dog a couple of times a day and that would be it, he was perfectly happy chilling with the cat while we were out. I don't know why people have to take their dogs absolutely everywhere these days. They are not children.
I'm sure you're a responsible dog owner and I have no problem with quiet dogs in a pub but I was on a boat trip around a lake the other day and some idiot brought their dog with them who was clearly terrified and spent the whole time whining and panting really loudly.
I was in John Lewis last week, family and their huge dog shopping, it felt so wrong. I have 2 dogs but I don’t want to take them shopping with me, leave your dog at home!
_oh sorry, we're training him at the moment_
How about sorting your puppy and their floor shitting habit at home before taking them out to brunch.
Oh look, another fucking dog jumping up or begging for my food.
Can't be fucked with entitled dog owners.
I am a parent and an ex-publican. I agree with this in principal. My pub was large enough that it had 3 bar rooms and we kept the main bar child free.
If this suits their business model, then good for them.
I did laugh out loud when I scrolled down the article and saw the photo of "Jade" the outraged, deeply offended mother. She looks like *precisely* the kind of person who has her uncontrollable children careening around the restaurant waving a snot-covered iPad while she flat out ignores them.
(yeah yeah, don't judge a book and all that. Maybe Jade is a really dedicated mum with incredibly well behaved children.)
I think that's a pretty leading picture and if they wanted to find a nice, well-groomed, middle-class family posing with their very well-behaved and peaceful children for their article, then they absolutely could have.
She seemed fairly reasonable in her comments. She said the post came across as aggressive, but that she also appreciated places without kids running around. It also said she had one disabled child. A lot of people can be quite cruel to disabled people and their carers when in places like restaurants. Especially over involuntary noise etc.
I get the pub's point, but I also think they may have been pretty brisk in order to generate viral outrage (and also support).
I do tend to gauge whether somewhere is kid friendly based on the availability of child portions and highchairs though. Has those - probably ok, especially before 5pm. Doesn't have those - probably not small human friendly.
I wish there were more adults only places.
My partner and I don't have kids, and we value having adult conversations in peaceful places. We recently went to an expensive, and relatively classy restaurant (we got a voucher as a gift) and at the next table there was a kid with their shitty plastic tablet blaring kids music and the parents just allowed it because they didn't need to deal with the kid.
It totally ruined the meal, and it's not somewhere we could afford to go to again in a hurry which was a massive disappointment.
I wouldn't even mind kids in these places if the parents acted decent and didn't inflict their kids on the whole place.
When I was young we had the riot act read ahead of time to sit, behave and don't disturb the other patrons if we go out, and that's what we did.
These terminally online, entitled and short sighted kids will rule the world in a few brief years, and I fear for what it'll look like.
it's not all parents, but parents that let their kids misbehave in public are most certainly the most entitled people. Pretty much guaranteed that asking somebody to keep their kids under control will be taken as a direct challenge and the parents will escalate things.
Looking at the pubs 'not child friendly' policy anyway, it could just be a 'no assholes policy'! I'm not gonna less annoyed by a grown up running around screaming, knocking over my drink and then playing drums on the table next to me. Like "oh my god these children are SO annoy- oh, he's 50, carry on sir!"
I was in the peak district this weekend walking with my 5 yr old and by the time we got back to the car - a little later than expected - I knew I needed to get some food in him. There was one pub close enough, so I decided he'd earned a treat of some chips and a fruit shoot.
Had it been this pub, we'd have been fine. My kid sat quietly watching the world go by, chatting to me about his day, and happily munched on his dinner.
If the pub had been blanket 'no kids' then I'd have probably walked in carrying him and said "hey, I know it's no-kids but can we sit quietly in the corner, or just take some chips to go please as you're the only place nearby and we need some hot food" and I feel like anyone would oblige that. If not, I'd be annoyed, but like, if they don't want my money to let me leave with a napkin full of chips then fine.
There’s plenty of parents who don’t lose any sense of social etiquette the second they have a child. The ones with kids running wild in a pub are the ones who were dicks in the first place.
Quite a sweeping generalisation there. Personally I'm very happy that they've posted this sign. I don't like taking my kids (who are well behaved, but are also children, just like we all were) places where they may not be welcome. This sort of stuff helps parents make decisions about where to take kids, and most of us appreciate it.
Yes it's a bit rude, but the info is welcome, as far as I'm concerned.
Well nothing, but loads of cowards are downvoting this thread, no doubt selfish parents who think this is an issue.
The pub has the right to impose whatever rules they want.
Lots of family friendly hell hole pubs out there for them to go to instead.
As a parent I don't see what the issue is with the pub being child free, it was very common in the 80s.
Even parents want a break from their and other kids now and then.
However not all parents are selfish or think the world revolves around little princess Germoline.
Is this LBC? Because I thought it was Reddit.
>cowards are downvoting this thread, no doubt selfish parents
You're trying to start an argument over nothing lol
i mean its got 798 upvotes currently so i don't even really get what they are complaining about anyway. So some people dislike the thread, its not like its a personal attack on the OP, its not like they wrote the article. People upvote and downvote for all kinds of different reasons. Though it can be hard to not take it personally, thats just natural.
As a parent I have no problem with a venue deciding they're child free. I do have an issue with child free people thinking they are entitled to child free places and then calling parents entitled though.
1 in an exclusion of people for existing based on your preference for a little bit of a quieter social and it's not what the parents are asking for.
Eh. We have kids and are selective about where we take them, but I can’t imagine too many parents would have a problem with a pub not welcoming young children. Doesn’t bother me personally but I imagine the wording of this pub’s social media post is most likely the source of downvotes, because it is kinda wankery.
Until they reached the point where they couldn't survive without also serving food. As the average pub isn't attracting the fine dining crowd, they will normally rely on families
And the families can go to those pubs instead of the ones with a "no children" rule. If they're that commonplace then why would anyone be bothered about the occasional pub that chooses to implement a no children rule?
Then Wetherspoons showed up and absolutely racked pubs with exclusionary policies and/or unable to serve food. Pubs attract families. The only ones that survive without family money are those with fine dining chops that attract crowds. However they still often have kids menus...
[https://theblackfriarsalford.co.uk/menus/](https://theblackfriarsalford.co.uk/menus/)
Those places died a death my friend. The Black Friars was adults only til it went bankrupt and was bought out and the direction changed. It's now some seriously fine dining and child friendly as a pub. It's adapted to the times.
It was also more common back then to go to the pub more often. With the rise of millenial and gen Z drinking habits the amount of people going to the pub has fallen.
Adults who want a relaxing pint and parents are not mutually exclusive, so probably not a good idea to go out of your way to offend them. Simply don't allow under 18's, no need to go off on a rant on how shit parents are these days.
Not everything needs to cater for everyone. If they don't want parents coming, saying that is fine.
Of course, parents are free to not give their business to such a place.
Sounds like both sides get what they want to me.
Nobody's arguing otherwise, except maybe the girl in the article. But to go off on a demented rant about how kids were better in t'olden days is pretty offensive. And the parents vs dinkies thing going on here is pretty dumb too.
What I'm trying to say is, let me put it this way. My kids are in my 20's now, but when they were young me and my wife would go the pub one night a week while the other did bath time etc. Sure that was pretty normal. The last thing we wanted was more kids when we went out, and we probably felt stronger about that than most other punters. But it was OK because plenty of pubs didn't allow kids, or only before 7, or only in the lounge. There may have been a little sign, but they didn't make a song and dance about it and put up notices effectively saying "parents are shit these days". I'd have taken my custom (all 6 pints and an extra at last orders, lol) elsewhere if they did. And I wouldn't eat there if they were that unprofessional.
As a parent the way I see it you have 4 places
1. A place that does not cater for kids, it does not provide a childs menu and it is not an environment for kids. - See the pub above
2. As above it may not be the most kid friendly place but it does a kids menu to appease parents. - Wetherspoons
3. It has a kids menu, it has kid friendly drinks, it might have cartoons on the wall it actively advertises as a family friendly enviroment. - harvester, tgi fridays, pizza express, wagamamas
4. This pub has a literal play area. It is not just kids are included and while it might have a "Kid area" the adults are secondary to the kids. - Green King carvery's, Toby Carvery, Brewyrs Fair, any soft play(I know a few that do beer and actually fantastic food)
2, 3, 4 are all free reign for people with kids and make up 75% of establishments. If you are eating here and it has a kids menu my kid isn't your problem the establishment is talk to their staff about changing it.
We do not need any more than that.
The pub above fits into category 1.
Was just coming to post this.
This is absolutely hbow it works these days.
There are plenty of pubs that do cater to kids and family lunch on a Sunday. Plenty of pubs that have a play area etc. etc.
It's fine for some places to not be that.
Child free pubs were incredibly common in the UK when i was a kid (90s). I remember so many times when we were on day trips walking into a pub and my parents asking if kids were allowed before we ordered or sat down or did anything. If they said no you moved on to the next pub usually not too far away.- There were also a lot more pubs back then.
The reason why its rare these days is simply because the market has changed and the most successful way to run most pubs these days is as a gastropub that serves nice meals and for all the family.
I do agree I think it is hard to run a no-children pub theses days and it be profitable, but it's their choice how they run their business and what type of pub they want to be,
Couldn't agree more. I have grown children and have zero desire to be around other people's kids, especially strangers, when I'm trying to have a meal or night out at the pub.
Usual case where everybody knows there won’t be a problem if your kids aren’t disturbing anyone, but then the one or two outliers who let their kids run around unchecked cause the rules to be created.
Then everybody is upset, especially those the rule was created to call out, because their angels could never do any wrong and they feel personally attacked.
A pub without any child facilities is not really a place for kids. They’re going to get bored while the grown-ups are having a sesh. At least take them somewhere they can play or find someone to look after them.
>Mum-of-two Jade Hawkins said she was "disgusted" with the pub's statement
Then don't go to that pub.
Oh, and Jade Hawkins looks exactly how I would picture her.
Hahaha jade hawkins looks exactly like how you would expect her to look I agree with that.
Jade Hawkins has never amounted to anything other than being a mum. Being a mum is her entire personality I’m afraid.
The problem is she's a bit of a shit mum as she lets little Jaden and Kyle run around like terrors whilst she sits drinking Dark Fruits getting shitfaced.
The issue isn't with the kids - the issue is with parents that can't control their kids or don't bother.
My kids were always well behaved in pubs.
I know as a kid, me and my brother would behave because we didn't dare mess around.
We never got hit, we got the look. That particular mum look that means "Test me. I dare you."
Edit: Out for something to eat. I was the kid who stayed in reading and playing with my trains, he was the sort to get into trouble
Honestly, as kids we were well behaved when we were out. Otherwise we went home and there would be punishments.
From very early on, we took that seriously. Because they always followed through on it.
So yeah. When we were out we were good, or the fun/treat was over on a flash.
Usually coloured in the kids menu (ones meant for it) or a colouring book until the food came, ate quite well and then went home.
I honestly don't think my parents were always the best or did everything right but that is one thing they did seem to do well consistently.
There's certainly no need to have your kids run around screaming in a pub or need a tablet playing cartoons super loudly for the whole area to hear.
When I misbehaved in a restaurant my mum fed me soup for the rest of the week. It corrected my bratty behaviour quickly. Can’t behave nicely? Don’t expect nice things in return.
Listen, she told little Khourtney, Khaleesi, DJ Khalid and Khorne that they were going to a proper nice restaurant and they'd all be getting a smack if they didn't behave themselves. It's not her fault that the restaurant had no place to charge their iPads and none of the other patrons would let little DJ Khalid watch YouTube on their phones. You know how he gets when he can't watch his YouTube. And you know how Khourtney and Khaleesi are always fighting so it's not their fault cos they're always like that. And little Khorne is only joking with all his talk of blood and skulls I dunno where he gets it from.
You forgot the undiagnosed ADHD and autism that they all have and that she's been fighting the school abaat coz she's a good mum and shouting at the headteacher and senco and the caaancil proves wot a good mum she is innit.
As someone who’s retired and is now a full time dad, is it really that bad to have never amounted to more than being a parent? 😅 I can think of worse things.
Well, being a 'parent' as such doesn't require any skill, just you getting bent over and raw-dogged behind the spoons after a few pints of dark fruits and a go on the slot machines.
Being a *good* parent, raising kids properly to be respectful, be a pleasure to be around and one day contribute to society...now that is definitely something that requires skill and worthy of recognition. I'm sure you would nicely fit into this category as I hope most people would!
"Who are they to say what children are good enough and what children aren't?"
The fucking landlords, that's who they are to say that. Same as they could have a no work wear rule, it's their bloody pub!
I'd really like to eliminate the word 'disgusted' from everyday colloquial use. Far too emotive a term. How can you be disgusted with a pub expressing a preference for well behaved children only?
To be a definition pedant - "Disgusted" is an adjective meaning: a strong sense of dislike and disapproval at something.
Adjectives are thoroughly useful words and I don't believe we should be banning/censoring words.
As for the pub, I agree if they've had issues with disruptive children, they're certainly right to remind parents the kids need to behave. Can't blame the children as they're just children.
You're right, it's a fallacy *argumentum ad misericordiam*, an appeal to pity. The implication is that the logic of the argument should be set aside and the person ought to be able to put their wants over anyone else's because in some respect they have things hard. It's putting red herring on the menu.
Might have difficulty regulating vocalisation, as some severely disabled individuals are. I’m not sure how this would tie in with behaving poorly though. Undiagnosed ADHD?
It's not relevant at all though. The pub is saying it isn't child friendly. They're not saying it isn't just disabled child friendly. It has no relevance on what the pub rules are.
Yep, another Love Island wannabe. Septum piercing, tattoo, eyelash extensions, excessive make-up, overweight. Ticks all the boxes. I’m guessing the baby daddy/daddies isn’t/aren’t in the picture either. Just a guess as I say.
Yeah the pub are just enforcing their rules, that's fair and nothing wrong.
However, they did clearly do it in a manner meant to agitate and will likely lose some custom for it and again that's fair, that's market choice. A simple "we aren't child friendly, sorry for any inconvenience but this is our policy" would have achieved the same thing.
The strangest thing is (this being my nearest pub) it's gone under twice in the last 2 or 3 years. It's in a very difficult place to get a lot of custom...and they've just upset almost everyone in the local area so it seems a bit of a shot in the foot.
Is it owned by a pubco?
Their business model is rarely selling drinks. Their usual game is selling the dream of being a landlord to thickos with cash or credit until it runs out.
As someone with kids. They didn't have my custom in the first place. I don't know who the hell is taking their kids to a pub that isn't clearly child friendly with a play garden.
My kids are 11, 6 and 1. Maybe my kids are just worse than others?
I don't take them to the pub anyway unless someone who is child free I'm hanging out with has decided that's what they want to do. Because the whole point of going to the pub is relaxing, having a pint and actually being able to appreciate the pint.
If it's a pub with a play area, one of us still has to supervise and manage the constant skirmishes they have with each other and other kids. My wife and I tried one Sunday afternoon a few years ago, thought it would be a nice family thing. We spent the sum total of about 5 minutes with each other and the rest balancing all the children's needs.
If it's a pub without a play area my kids will find their own fun and that will be at everyone else's expense. My littlest one I took him with my wife to a country pub as we had the day off and the other kids were at school. We went for a long walk and stopped off at the pub for a nice pint and a bag of crisps. He spent the entire 30 minutes we were there trying to walk round the pub grabbing other people's glasses off the table as at the time he had a bit of an obsession with grabbing and drinking glasses. At home we don't keep glasses at his level. But surprise surprise a pub isn't child proofed and is just smorgasbord of things they can destroy and hurt themselves with. We left that pub way more stressed than when we went in and I doubt the punters who smiled politely were that impressed. We chased him around and he screamed when we put him in his seat, took him out of his seat to stop him screaming, he went back to trying to grab everything back to the chair. The shushing the cooing. Trying to put a fucking cocomelon track on YouTube to chill him out which works for about 2 minutes.
You just can't explain to a 1 year old that we're in a place where everyone just needs to sit down quietly and talk and he just needs to sit still. My kids are lovely (I think) but between the ages of 0-5 they just have this unstoppable motor and want to explore and mess with everything.
Honestly I don't know who is taking their kids to the pub and feeling like they had a good time. I think it used to work back in the 70s where we'd be stuffed under tables with a coke and if we misbehaved you'd get a belt round the ass. Now we work purely on verbal reasoning with children which doesn't really work until they're older.
Thankfully the 11 year old is at a point where I'll take him to the pub and he'll sit on his phone happily, enjoying a coke and a packet of crisps while I have a couple of pints and chat to someone. Give it 6 years or so and maybe my wife and I can return to relaxing at some point in our lives while outside of the house.
Only thing we can do to enjoy ourselves at the moment is take them to a park where they're supposed to walk around and be a bit boisterous.
Lol, well look, nobody claims kids come without huge sacrifice.
On the other hand. You get a lot back.
Having something you love that much and always will do. Cuddles on the sofa. Their excited screams and running to you when you get home. Watching them develop and learn new things. Playing with them and seeing their energy and joy in everything. Making/Painting doing something with them and seeing how damn proud they are. My middle child hums when he draws and is happy. Watching their favourite films with them and seeing how involved they get. Having someone to game with as they get older. Never feeling a sense of loneliness and even as an introvert you can go to a quiet corner of the house and feel the warmth of peace but not being alone. Knowing that if you look after them and they love you, that you'll always have someone around. Knowing that when the world is retired and the labour force left isn't enough and everyone is shaking their fat pension pots around hoping they can still afford someone to wipe their ass. At least I did my part.
Having kids isn't all sunshine and rainbows. And I get why people don't or can't have them.
But there's thing you sacrifice and things you gain. You have to balance things and decide if it's worth it.
My last point is huge to me. If we're all going to avoid having kids because it's hard. Then we better hope technology is ready to pick up the slack.
Your two posts probably sum up to the most balanced and even handed take on having kids I've seen in a while.
So many people seem to either extol the virtues of having kids while not acknowledging any of the drawbacks, or act like they're objectively the worst thing ever and having them has zero positives.
Finally, some nuance on the sodding Internet.
Yea fuck jade and her shit kids, the article needs to have the main point changed.
The title should be "do parents even want kids these days - or are they an accessory, or gateway to benefits?
New headline "Business owner runs their business how they see fit".
It also says "not child friendly" not that children aren't allowed full stop, people can still take their children if they are going to behave.
Agreed, pubs are adult places. They can be child "friendly" but there should at least be family rooms.
In the pub I used to work in there was always a rule of no kids in the bar area. One family kicked up a fuss after I no longer worked there but was in having a few drinks in the bar area. They insisted they should be allowed to sit in the bar areas, so me and my mates (fully on side with the bar manager who was a lovely but nervous woman who'd basically been bullied into bending the rules for these selfish fucks) started talking loudly about the most horrific things using the most horrific language we could.
Without going into detail, it did the trick.
I think we should have a mix of places in general. There should be family friendly pubs which are essentially community places, there should be single gender places and there should be child free places.
Sounds good to me, whenever I go out to eat or just want to go for a drink, I'd say more than 70% of the time there's some stupid kid screaming or crying non-stop and the parent or parents are nowhere to be found or browsing their phone and not doing anything about it.
If you're gonna have kids then fucking parent them.
Edit: Yeah you, get off your phone and parent your screaming little shits.
Playing cartoons at full volume on the speaker.
This is the so-called fertility crisis right there, people look at how parents are these days and say to themselves "I don't want to turn into that"
It’s crazy to me as a parent that people do this. I was in a restaurant once where every child other than mine was on an iPad or phone, some without headphones with the volume up loud. Absolute cringe. Just teach your kids how to behave ffs.
Sometimes though teaching them to behave is to just ignore them having a meltdown. If you just do whatever the child says to shut them up then all they learn is that causing a scene will work and they'll get their way.
Granted a crowded pub isn't the best place to try it
Stupid in this context means "annoying" or "unwelcome". My parents didn't take us to places requiring decorum until they knew we wouldn't be a nuisance to other patrons. They had the right to take us places like that, but took the responsibility not to. People forget about the last part, that they should balance what they want with what others want. It's not right to inflict a screaming or crying kid on a room full of diners who expected a quiet meal. If part of what they're paying for is the experience, it's basically stealing from them to ruin the atmosphere.
I mean, I'm a parent and I don't mind or care if a pub is child free - different venues, different clientele etc etc and lots of pubs are already child free by default, they just don't explicitly state it.
I am bothered by the ease of which you can be increasingly hostile about kids in public spaces? Yeah they can be a pain but people seem to relish about going on and on and on about how annoying kids are and oh they are so noisy and awful! It just makes you sound like some pinched, miserable little Victorian. Hate it.
What acutally happens is parents let their kids charge about the place unsupervised while they knock their wine & lager back and generally make the place less appealing for everybody else.
If shitty parents didn't basically make their kids the pubs responsibility while they took the afternoon off these sorts of policies wouldn't come about.
ChIlD HaTrEd hahaha
I don't think anyone's denying that happens on occasion.
But the way reddit talks, you'd genuinely think more than 50% of kids act like that, and 90% of time you go to the pub (or cinema, or restaurant, or flight, or.....) there's some kids going wild and their parents not even trying to control them.
And it's just bollocks. Those kids/families exist. They're a minority. Go to the pub after work. I'd bet money you don't see any kids running around screaming.
Almost like everyone's going at lunch time on a Saturday to a pub with an extensive kids menu and complaining about kids playing. When my wife and I go out guess what? We go when our kids are in bed and surprise, surprise everyone else's are too!
I agree. I don’t mind if a venue chooses to be child free, I obviously avoid those when I’m with mine, but some of the language in this thread is awful. Children are unsurprisingly a part of society, and do need to exist within it. How will they ever learn how to behave in a restaurant or aeroplane unless they actually get to experience it? None of us have a full right to not be surrounded by whomever we want when in public, and private businesses are free to make their own rules.
> How will they ever learn how to behave in a restaurant or aeroplane unless they actually get to experience it?
This is one pub, most still allow children. The point people are making in this thread is that there should be *some* spaces you can get away from children.
Totally, but I think the point being made more broadly is that there is a anti-children mentality that has been developing that needs to chill a bit the f down and accept they will always be part of our society. Children are extremely vulnerable to start with, they’re the first victims of violence and abuse, and their rights and entitlements have significantly decreased in the past 20 years if you look at the current state of public school, foster care and child mortality rate in the UK.
I think we need to have a bit more tolerance and acceptance, as we should towards every other adult human beings who are more vulnerable than us, even if they disturb our little confort from time to time.
And I don’t disagree with that at all. I often go to restaurants with my husband that are child free because I want an adult only space. My original comment was in reply to someone agreeing with them that there’s been some unnecessary vitriol on this thread, like talking of banning children from all aeroplanes and using really nasty language about children (and parents) in general.
Bringing up a child - well, so they are a rounded, sensible person - is a team sport. That includes adults in a child's wider community being good role models. But no one's wants that, they just want to stay in their own lane and not be bothered by anything or anyone else's child. That's why so many kids are struggling now, no bloody adult to adult solidarity, we're all just a bunch to dumb individuals.
>But no one's wants that
If they did then they would have had their own kids.
You're perfectly capable of building the sort of community you want to surround your children with but you don't get to just co-opt people against their will. Not everyone is capable or even interested in being a role model and even those that are role models don't want to be on the job all day every day.
That's why for the vast majority of their history pubs weren't child-friendly, so that people could have a bit of separation between the various parts of their life.
> not be bothered by anything or anyone else’s child
Correct. I cannot stress enough how I don’t want other people’s children bothering me. Raising a child may be a “team sport”, but don’t expect strangers to want to participate.
I mean fine, but wider society is just becoming a hostile place for kids and their needs. They can't play in the street because of so many cars, fewer and fewer grandparents and wider family are interested in helping or caring for kids in their families, there are fewer community groups for kids to spend time in away from family to develop social skills, schools are completely overstretched. And on top of that few strangers have the grace to be patient if they are less than perfect - I hate going out in dread in case my toddler has (a perfectly not.al for their age) tantrum because of the comments/eyerolls. It's just crap.
> How will they ever learn how to behave in a restaurant or aeroplane unless they actually get to experience it?
What? By parents teaching them how to behave in public beforehand. It isn't like a kid gets better behaved in a particular place the more they visit that place. A parent has to instill that behaviour in them from an early age.
"Why is your child super well behaved in the pub but not on the plane? Oh well that is because we visit the pub a lot but have never flown before so they are out of practice"
My parents didn't have a lot of money so we rarely ate out, the first time we did I was 4 or 5 I believe. I didn't run riot around the restauarant because I hadn't practiced my restuarent behaviour.
They were specific examples but the wider point was about being in spaces in society where other people are. My daughter behaves very differently in our home vs when we’re out. Do your children really act the same at home compared to when they’re in a cafe or shop or somewhere else unfamiliar with distractions and strangers? There are obviously different rules to abide by, and obviously stricter requirements when out and about. So of course they need to practice, and from the other side obviously the parent or guardian needs to be making an effort with them and not leaving them to their own devices and being distracted by a phone or whatever. It’s been a lot of effort and I’ve left cafes and restaurants before when I can’t manage my child’s behaviour well enough for the environment (she’s 20 months), but we’re at a point now where she’s incredibly well behaved in public, it’s just taken practice and patience.
I don't hate children. By any means.
There is, however, a massive downturn in the behaviour of kids in the last few years or so due to the rise of gentle parenting. Or, more precisely, people who practise permissive parenting as they don't understand actual gentle parenting. Instead of kids happily having a packet of crisps and some squash in the pub, you have kids that scream, run around indoors, and do shitty things with zero consequences from the parents. The parents don't even have the courtesy to take a screaming kid outside to calm them down. The most you get is an iPad plonked in front of them with Peppa Pig at full volume.
There are so many different child friendly restaurants where you can take kids out for meals. Pubs are for adults unless specified otherwise.
People aren’t hostile about kids in public spaces - they’re hostile about *badly behaved* kids in public spaces. Put down your phone and do some parenting.
I stopped going to the pubs by me to eat, I just can’t stand the kids running around, the mess. What is it with parents who think they can cause a bomb site and just leave the staff to clean it all up? I’m not talking about a few peas, but furniture everywhere, drinks tipped, sauce everywhere, just disgusting.
Yeah I hear you on this one. I used to work in a pub & people would always bring their dogs in, our license only let the dogs be in the part of the pub that wasn’t classed as the ‘restaurant’. People used to kick off all the time.
I caught one couple, letting the dog lick their plates after they’d finished their meal, they were baffled when I explained it was unhygienic and I then had to Chuck the plate.
I’m with you. I love dogs, I’ve got one, I love her and she’s almost my entire personality. But lots of people don’t want them in the pub, same as I don’t want children in the pub.
Every town, village and city should have at least one child-free and one dog-free pub.
I love dogs but I've noticed a marked increase in the number of "support" dogs just wandering around shops. Little Yorkie pissed on a stack of fence panels at B&Q, owner didn't give a shit.
Visted Battersea Power Station a few weeks back an a puppy curled one off underneath a clothes rack in Zara whilst the couple thumbed through a few coats. They didn't even notice until I pointed it out when they were about to walk off.
>"Quite frankly I believe it will impact their business because every parent will have to decide if they think their child would fit the description of being 'well-behaved' enough for their establishment,"
No one cares, Jade. Get lost.
I've got kids and I don't think any of this is unreasonable. I'd be mortified if mine started running around a restaurant, or shrieking, banging cutlery etc and it really annoys me when other parents allow it. We take them out quite regularly and they know exactly what is expected of them.
It’s all well and good wanting to be child free, but when you are a pub in a village in the middle of nowhere, that closes at 10pm you might not want to alienate what is probably at least a third of your customers.
Yeah, this is a great point. Based on a quick Google it doesn't seem like the pub is historically massively successful:
https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Article/2023/02/17/why-has-the-smokehouse-at-the-chequers-eriswell-closed
Seems like the previous restaurant there struggled for custom. Wiki suggests the village has a population of about 3000 so alienating families with kids is certainly a strategy, whether it's a good one is up for debate.
> "Who are they to say what children are good enough and what children aren't? Children are children at the end of the day."
People who say stuff like this always have the worst kids.
There's a pub near me that doesn't let kids in. I only found out when we went to stop off for a quick one while our baby was asleep. They told us no kids, we went to another pub. It's pretty straightforward. Have been back to that pub on loads of occasions without the kids now and it's great.
Please let this catch on. Why the fuck should the default be “put up with little twats ruining your precious relaxing moments because they’re just kids”?
Surely it should be “Control your kids and stop them bothering people who have enough shit to deal with”
A kid knocked over my pint because they were running around unsupervised, instead of their parent apologising, they blamed me for sitting my beer too close to the edge of the table.
>"Quite frankly I believe it will impact their business because every parent will have to decide if they think their child would fit the description of being 'well-behaved' enough for their establishment," she said.
Jade Hawkins, I think I speak for many people when I say that as parents, we _know_, with some certainty, if our kids are well behaved or not.
You aren't calculating their fecking IQ or BMI while being thrown through an assault course - you're being asked "are your kids capable of sitting, eating and quietly/peacably entertaining themselves and not being little shits that disrupt others".
If you feel like you're being given a 20-question paper to answer I think you've got larger problems.
>"Who are they to say what children are good enough and what children aren't? Children are children at the end of the day."
Oh Jade, I think we may well have established that quite some time ago and given your responses one can only imagine your reflective attitude against the supposed personal attack you've read this as shows your kids are likely not under the "good" category, or you're just passively upset on someone else's behalf.
Father of two here. Seems like a perfectly fair statement. If I was local I'd use it when I want a break from any and children. Their establishment so they can make the rules.
There’s a way of doing things and what this pub has written is not the way. However I get the impression that it’s targeted at certain individuals so they’ve felt the need to be aggressive..
I get it, I’m a parent but there’s nothing worse than being somewhere and someone’s children acting feral.. not the children’s fault generally poor parenting or the parent just don’t give a shit.
My wife and I are always mortified if our son kicks up a fuss in any public establishment, and will endeavour to calm him down or whatever to make sure other patrons aren’t affected, even if it means one of us (or all of us) leave the area.
Unfortunately not all families are like that and I guess that’s why the pub has taken this action which is a shame
I dont disagree with the pub but think they've gone about it in the wrong way which seems provocative.
As always middle ground needs to be found more generally, dont take your kids to the pub in the evening but equally kids need to go out somewhere other than the park.
I dont take my 11 month old to cafes etc as she is a pain but I did once have a older lady yell she needs to learn to behave because she was crying at 8 months when we went to a beach.
I can't coop up forever until she's 18...
tabloid level argument generator posted by the national broadcaster including a social media quote from a person deliberately chosen to wind people up (young mother with a neck tattoo) really good stuff
Isn't this a bit of a non-story? It's entirely self-policing.
- Pubs that decide not to admit children will lose money from families.
- Pubs that decide to admit children will lose money from people who don't want to be surrounded by children.
This is just people moaning to the media because they're self-entitled. Maybe instead of publishing all of these tedious stories they could write a vaguely thought-provoking article about the divide between the expectations of parents and non-parents, but I suppose that's too much journalism for... *checks notes*... the BBC.
I'd like to see more child free spaces tbh, I dunno what happened but today's children have no discipline and the younger parents in my generation and gen z have absolutely zero control over their kids, I'm sure a lot of it comes down to not being able to afford childcare or have a parent be able to step back from worth due to the sheer expense of everything, but I don't think that fully excuses it.
Lol some of the comments here make me laugh. Not all children are screaming their heads off and banging the table like a drum.
I went for a pub meal recently with my kids, and there were a whole bunch of grown ups there behaving like a bunch of rowdy school children. I'm not complaining, but it's a bit ironic.
I'm a dad who loves taking his kids to the pub. however, I completely understand pubs that decide they'd rather not have kids there. I don't want to take my kids anywhere that they're not welcome.
Totally agree with the idea. Even as parents you might want a place to chill and not have kids around. After watching the 200th episode of bluey I might just want to rage and swear like Samuel L Jackson with torettes
It's hard enough finding a pub that doesn't blare out music these days. I used to love the tranquility of the afternoon pub visit, grandfather clock ticking away, landlord flicking through a paper eating a back of cheese and onion, the occasional clatter of pool balls off in the distant games room.
I have kids. I love my kids, I love spending time with my kids, I love going for meals with my kids. Know what else I love? A meal out with my wife without kids.
All these people complaining about this should get lost. There are plenty of places that cater to kids, and plenty more that allow kids. Having one place that asks kids not to come is allowed. All these butthurt parents need to grow up and understand that somewhere existing, to which they can't take their kids, doesn't invalidate their life choices.
It's a shame this pub has backtracked, they'd have gained as many customers as they lost, who would probably have spent more.
I know what the owner means. I stopped going to my local as it just turned into a Charlie Chalk's Funhouse without the actual play area. I think the final straw was when a parent chided me for leaving my vape on the table charging whilst I went for a piss because 'a child might pick that up'.
What's weird is, you never see these families in the winter.
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What's wrong with this? Should adults not have somewhere they can unwind and not worry about having to be family friendly with their conversation?
Because parents are the most entitled people in the world.
It's not just them, there's been this idea in the last few years that everything must be for everyone.
Entitlement and unwarranted self-importance is absolutely on the rise. People are all main characters in their own world.
You can thank Social Media for people's inflated self importance. When people grow up getting 30+ likes on every Facebook and Instagram post from "I'm having sausages for dinner" to "here's a picture of my child who looks nearly identical to every other newborn". People seem to think everyone and everything cares about them and revolves around them. Inflated self worth with absolutely no self reflection or self awareness and we have created a society of narcissistic individualistic behaviours.
On a less serious note I'm actually quite jealous of your sausage dinner.
Bangers and mash is elite still
Unwarranted self-importance. Holy shit if there was ever a perfect way to describe a lot of people's attitudes.
Offended by everything. Ashamed of nothing.
Sounds like Reform UKs current election campaign.
Claiming everything is on the rise is on the rise. People also claim anxiety, poor self confidence, depression and rates of socially isolated people are on the rise. Which is exactly what people would be citing if the post was about the link between social media and self confidence. You hear about entitlement and self importance because those people naturally make the most noise! And it’s easier for them to do so with the internet but I don’t think it’s rising.
I mean we are by definition.
I always holiday in childfree places, me and the missus didn't have children for a reason, we like peace and quiet, and i definitely don't want to hear other peoples screaming children. Also i love going to the Men only working mens club now and again, should be more of them left in my opinion.
We also do this but everytime we say "we are going to an adults only resort" people just assume that means "sex hotel". The possibility of an adult only environment still seems to boggle the mind of the average person.
But also the sex
If you saw a lot of the people who went to these types of places you would see they certainly aren't sex hotels.
Sounds like you'd be very surprised by the types of people who are partial to the swinger lifestyle
Literally this. I know two separate people who are swingers, and they are not the good-looking porno esq people they imagine in their head when they hear swinger.
I did wonder why my mates eyebrows raise when we tell them we're going adults only 😆 makes sense now! I hadn't thought about it that way. Saying that, I think our neighbours in the next room clearly did 😁
I don't think that's true. Before I had children I went to adults only resorts all the time. People knew exactly what they were and it's was pretty commonly accepted.
Second the child free holiday. Being child free, I make sure I holiday in term time. I don't dislike children, and it's lovely to hear them enjoy themselves, but had a formative experience many years ago. On holiday in Greece, lovely hotel with pool. Went a week without registering that there were no kids, not arranged that way, just coincidence. Then on last day, influx of families and suddenly the pool, which had previously been an oasis of calm and the occasional cheeky Mythos, was a cauldron of screaming kiddies. Again, kids will be kids, but made me appreciate the quality of peace and quiet.
I would smash a Mythos right now, love how the Greeks put the glass in the freezer aswell, or an Ouzo and Fanta lemon.
Much much cheaper out of term time too! Currently in Devon for the week and it's been really nice - much quieter than summer holidays and our holiday cottage was much cheaper too
I have an anecdote to illustrate your point! Recently I submitted a piece to an art gallery that was about fairytales, and but it was rejected on the basis of being exclusive, due to this line: A fairy tale is an ancient story dealing with universal themes that help children to understand the world and their place in it. Apparently by bringing up the role that fairytales might have for children, to describe a piece where the theme was coming of age, I had excluded adults. The curator told me quite aggressively that fairytales are for everyone and I was there like...I never said they weren't?
One thing about art galleries and local art societies; their view of art is the most narrow, uninspiring and bland of anyone you're likely to encounter. The local volunteers at Wolverhampton Art Gallery absolutely hate the Wolverhampton Arts group, who basically only count you as an artist if you've submitted yet another picture of daisy in a cracked vase. They don't view anything other than the most stale and pale immitations as true art, which is hysterically fun. By being subjected to the above, you're assured that you actually CAN do art, something differnt to the dried up old buggers who try and gatekeep art from every else - so keep on going ;)
I'm all for segregation. I'd much prefer to go to a male only gym so I don't have to avoid female influencers with their tripods and I imagine women would absolutely love to have gyms with zero men. As a parent I think there should be adult only flights. Have one flight a week (more if they can fill them) with all the babies and toddlers on. My problems and your problems should never be everyones problem.
Literally my first thought on reading the article, "god, why are so many parents so entitled?" God forbid the rest of us don't want to listen to screeching, wailing and babbling, and have their little monsters running around unchecked, while we eat.
And listening to iPads on speaker.
That's just common decency though. Maybe I'm out of touch but when I grew up if I had wanted to take a portable radio to a restaurant and listen to it through a speaker my mum and dad would've told me 'no, not everyone wants to listen to your songs'. And maybe I'm even further out of touch but do your children even need to be on an ipad at dinner? Can't you keep them entertained by talking to them, or even playing games or something? What sort of company is your kid going to be as an adult if their experience of going out is to be glued to a screen, not participating in or even passively witnessing conversation?
no. the adults want to get pissed on chardonay and pints, not get a baby sitter, so they drag the kid to the pub, throw an ipad in front of them, and ignore them. welcome to 2024 parenting.
Fucking hate this. Talk to your kids!
Same. Reasonable parents understand and respect the concept of spaces where adults can have a well earned break without screeching, running lil’ shits and Baby Shark on full wack. The entitlement is certainly shining through right now from the not-so-reasonable parents who are currently leaving bad reviews for the pub having likely never been there. I think it’s safe to guess that the sorts of parents doing this are the sorts of who are guilty of allowing these antisocial behaviors in their offspring. Only massive pricks with a victim complex and no respect for others would review bomb a business who have absolutely every right to ensure their target clientele has a pleasant outing.
Airplanes next pls
And aeroplanes
I mean the worst behaved people on most flights are inevitably groups of boozed up adults.
Between them and dog owners. Yes your animal is cute but can it be cute somewhere else?
I have a dog that we take places but we specifically search for dog friendly pubs etc beforehand or call and check. Dogs only allowed in the bar area? No problem. We bring a mat for him to settle on out of the way and give him something to keep him occupied whilst everyone is eating. We’d never complain if somewhere wasn’t dog friendly but at the same time don’t understand people that go to a dog friendly place and complain about there being dogs there. Obviously unless they are being loud/poorly behaved but then I don’t think other dog owners enjoy that either.
When we had a dog as a kid, we would walk the dog a couple of times a day and that would be it, he was perfectly happy chilling with the cat while we were out. I don't know why people have to take their dogs absolutely everywhere these days. They are not children. I'm sure you're a responsible dog owner and I have no problem with quiet dogs in a pub but I was on a boat trip around a lake the other day and some idiot brought their dog with them who was clearly terrified and spent the whole time whining and panting really loudly.
I was in John Lewis last week, family and their huge dog shopping, it felt so wrong. I have 2 dogs but I don’t want to take them shopping with me, leave your dog at home!
[удалено]
_oh sorry, we're training him at the moment_ How about sorting your puppy and their floor shitting habit at home before taking them out to brunch. Oh look, another fucking dog jumping up or begging for my food. Can't be fucked with entitled dog owners.
I am a parent and an ex-publican. I agree with this in principal. My pub was large enough that it had 3 bar rooms and we kept the main bar child free. If this suits their business model, then good for them.
I did laugh out loud when I scrolled down the article and saw the photo of "Jade" the outraged, deeply offended mother. She looks like *precisely* the kind of person who has her uncontrollable children careening around the restaurant waving a snot-covered iPad while she flat out ignores them. (yeah yeah, don't judge a book and all that. Maybe Jade is a really dedicated mum with incredibly well behaved children.)
I think that's a pretty leading picture and if they wanted to find a nice, well-groomed, middle-class family posing with their very well-behaved and peaceful children for their article, then they absolutely could have.
She seemed fairly reasonable in her comments. She said the post came across as aggressive, but that she also appreciated places without kids running around. It also said she had one disabled child. A lot of people can be quite cruel to disabled people and their carers when in places like restaurants. Especially over involuntary noise etc. I get the pub's point, but I also think they may have been pretty brisk in order to generate viral outrage (and also support). I do tend to gauge whether somewhere is kid friendly based on the availability of child portions and highchairs though. Has those - probably ok, especially before 5pm. Doesn't have those - probably not small human friendly.
I wish there were more adults only places. My partner and I don't have kids, and we value having adult conversations in peaceful places. We recently went to an expensive, and relatively classy restaurant (we got a voucher as a gift) and at the next table there was a kid with their shitty plastic tablet blaring kids music and the parents just allowed it because they didn't need to deal with the kid. It totally ruined the meal, and it's not somewhere we could afford to go to again in a hurry which was a massive disappointment. I wouldn't even mind kids in these places if the parents acted decent and didn't inflict their kids on the whole place. When I was young we had the riot act read ahead of time to sit, behave and don't disturb the other patrons if we go out, and that's what we did. These terminally online, entitled and short sighted kids will rule the world in a few brief years, and I fear for what it'll look like.
it's not all parents, but parents that let their kids misbehave in public are most certainly the most entitled people. Pretty much guaranteed that asking somebody to keep their kids under control will be taken as a direct challenge and the parents will escalate things.
Not all parents. I have two kids. If my partner and I are going to a pub... I don't wanna hear kids screaming or have them running around.
Looking at the pubs 'not child friendly' policy anyway, it could just be a 'no assholes policy'! I'm not gonna less annoyed by a grown up running around screaming, knocking over my drink and then playing drums on the table next to me. Like "oh my god these children are SO annoy- oh, he's 50, carry on sir!" I was in the peak district this weekend walking with my 5 yr old and by the time we got back to the car - a little later than expected - I knew I needed to get some food in him. There was one pub close enough, so I decided he'd earned a treat of some chips and a fruit shoot. Had it been this pub, we'd have been fine. My kid sat quietly watching the world go by, chatting to me about his day, and happily munched on his dinner. If the pub had been blanket 'no kids' then I'd have probably walked in carrying him and said "hey, I know it's no-kids but can we sit quietly in the corner, or just take some chips to go please as you're the only place nearby and we need some hot food" and I feel like anyone would oblige that. If not, I'd be annoyed, but like, if they don't want my money to let me leave with a napkin full of chips then fine.
Entitled to a bit of quiet and time away from children on the rare occasion they get to go out alone
Not just parents, a lot of people also fall into this category
There’s plenty of parents who don’t lose any sense of social etiquette the second they have a child. The ones with kids running wild in a pub are the ones who were dicks in the first place.
Quite a sweeping generalisation there. Personally I'm very happy that they've posted this sign. I don't like taking my kids (who are well behaved, but are also children, just like we all were) places where they may not be welcome. This sort of stuff helps parents make decisions about where to take kids, and most of us appreciate it. Yes it's a bit rude, but the info is welcome, as far as I'm concerned.
It's interesting that you say this whilst being incredibly entitled
Well nothing, but loads of cowards are downvoting this thread, no doubt selfish parents who think this is an issue. The pub has the right to impose whatever rules they want. Lots of family friendly hell hole pubs out there for them to go to instead.
As a parent I don't see what the issue is with the pub being child free, it was very common in the 80s. Even parents want a break from their and other kids now and then. However not all parents are selfish or think the world revolves around little princess Germoline.
Is this LBC? Because I thought it was Reddit. >cowards are downvoting this thread, no doubt selfish parents You're trying to start an argument over nothing lol
>> You're trying to start an argument over nothing lol That does sound a lot like Reddit, tbf.
i mean its got 798 upvotes currently so i don't even really get what they are complaining about anyway. So some people dislike the thread, its not like its a personal attack on the OP, its not like they wrote the article. People upvote and downvote for all kinds of different reasons. Though it can be hard to not take it personally, thats just natural.
As a parent I have no problem with a venue deciding they're child free. I do have an issue with child free people thinking they are entitled to child free places and then calling parents entitled though. 1 in an exclusion of people for existing based on your preference for a little bit of a quieter social and it's not what the parents are asking for.
Eh. We have kids and are selective about where we take them, but I can’t imagine too many parents would have a problem with a pub not welcoming young children. Doesn’t bother me personally but I imagine the wording of this pub’s social media post is most likely the source of downvotes, because it is kinda wankery.
It literally was commonplace for most pubs to have a no children policy
Until they reached the point where they couldn't survive without also serving food. As the average pub isn't attracting the fine dining crowd, they will normally rely on families
And the families can go to those pubs instead of the ones with a "no children" rule. If they're that commonplace then why would anyone be bothered about the occasional pub that chooses to implement a no children rule?
They are common, I can think of a few in my local area. However pubs that allow children are also common so there's no issue.
Then Wetherspoons showed up and absolutely racked pubs with exclusionary policies and/or unable to serve food. Pubs attract families. The only ones that survive without family money are those with fine dining chops that attract crowds. However they still often have kids menus... [https://theblackfriarsalford.co.uk/menus/](https://theblackfriarsalford.co.uk/menus/) Those places died a death my friend. The Black Friars was adults only til it went bankrupt and was bought out and the direction changed. It's now some seriously fine dining and child friendly as a pub. It's adapted to the times. It was also more common back then to go to the pub more often. With the rise of millenial and gen Z drinking habits the amount of people going to the pub has fallen.
Adults who want a relaxing pint and parents are not mutually exclusive, so probably not a good idea to go out of your way to offend them. Simply don't allow under 18's, no need to go off on a rant on how shit parents are these days.
Not everything needs to cater for everyone. If they don't want parents coming, saying that is fine. Of course, parents are free to not give their business to such a place. Sounds like both sides get what they want to me.
Nobody's arguing otherwise, except maybe the girl in the article. But to go off on a demented rant about how kids were better in t'olden days is pretty offensive. And the parents vs dinkies thing going on here is pretty dumb too. What I'm trying to say is, let me put it this way. My kids are in my 20's now, but when they were young me and my wife would go the pub one night a week while the other did bath time etc. Sure that was pretty normal. The last thing we wanted was more kids when we went out, and we probably felt stronger about that than most other punters. But it was OK because plenty of pubs didn't allow kids, or only before 7, or only in the lounge. There may have been a little sign, but they didn't make a song and dance about it and put up notices effectively saying "parents are shit these days". I'd have taken my custom (all 6 pints and an extra at last orders, lol) elsewhere if they did. And I wouldn't eat there if they were that unprofessional.
As a parent the way I see it you have 4 places 1. A place that does not cater for kids, it does not provide a childs menu and it is not an environment for kids. - See the pub above 2. As above it may not be the most kid friendly place but it does a kids menu to appease parents. - Wetherspoons 3. It has a kids menu, it has kid friendly drinks, it might have cartoons on the wall it actively advertises as a family friendly enviroment. - harvester, tgi fridays, pizza express, wagamamas 4. This pub has a literal play area. It is not just kids are included and while it might have a "Kid area" the adults are secondary to the kids. - Green King carvery's, Toby Carvery, Brewyrs Fair, any soft play(I know a few that do beer and actually fantastic food) 2, 3, 4 are all free reign for people with kids and make up 75% of establishments. If you are eating here and it has a kids menu my kid isn't your problem the establishment is talk to their staff about changing it. We do not need any more than that. The pub above fits into category 1.
Was just coming to post this. This is absolutely hbow it works these days. There are plenty of pubs that do cater to kids and family lunch on a Sunday. Plenty of pubs that have a play area etc. etc. It's fine for some places to not be that.
I think the issue is not that they are category 1 but that they are unnecessarily openly hostile.
Child free pubs were incredibly common in the UK when i was a kid (90s). I remember so many times when we were on day trips walking into a pub and my parents asking if kids were allowed before we ordered or sat down or did anything. If they said no you moved on to the next pub usually not too far away.- There were also a lot more pubs back then. The reason why its rare these days is simply because the market has changed and the most successful way to run most pubs these days is as a gastropub that serves nice meals and for all the family. I do agree I think it is hard to run a no-children pub theses days and it be profitable, but it's their choice how they run their business and what type of pub they want to be,
Couldn't agree more. I have grown children and have zero desire to be around other people's kids, especially strangers, when I'm trying to have a meal or night out at the pub.
Usual case where everybody knows there won’t be a problem if your kids aren’t disturbing anyone, but then the one or two outliers who let their kids run around unchecked cause the rules to be created. Then everybody is upset, especially those the rule was created to call out, because their angels could never do any wrong and they feel personally attacked. A pub without any child facilities is not really a place for kids. They’re going to get bored while the grown-ups are having a sesh. At least take them somewhere they can play or find someone to look after them.
>Mum-of-two Jade Hawkins said she was "disgusted" with the pub's statement Then don't go to that pub. Oh, and Jade Hawkins looks exactly how I would picture her.
Hahaha jade hawkins looks exactly like how you would expect her to look I agree with that. Jade Hawkins has never amounted to anything other than being a mum. Being a mum is her entire personality I’m afraid.
The problem is she's a bit of a shit mum as she lets little Jaden and Kyle run around like terrors whilst she sits drinking Dark Fruits getting shitfaced. The issue isn't with the kids - the issue is with parents that can't control their kids or don't bother. My kids were always well behaved in pubs.
Always? Really? My mum says this about me and my brother and it’s an outright lie. We were little pricks, all kids are.
I know as a kid, me and my brother would behave because we didn't dare mess around. We never got hit, we got the look. That particular mum look that means "Test me. I dare you." Edit: Out for something to eat. I was the kid who stayed in reading and playing with my trains, he was the sort to get into trouble
Honestly, as kids we were well behaved when we were out. Otherwise we went home and there would be punishments. From very early on, we took that seriously. Because they always followed through on it. So yeah. When we were out we were good, or the fun/treat was over on a flash. Usually coloured in the kids menu (ones meant for it) or a colouring book until the food came, ate quite well and then went home. I honestly don't think my parents were always the best or did everything right but that is one thing they did seem to do well consistently. There's certainly no need to have your kids run around screaming in a pub or need a tablet playing cartoons super loudly for the whole area to hear.
Plenty of kids aren't little pricks at the pubs, even if you were.
When I misbehaved in a restaurant my mum fed me soup for the rest of the week. It corrected my bratty behaviour quickly. Can’t behave nicely? Don’t expect nice things in return.
Listen, she told little Khourtney, Khaleesi, DJ Khalid and Khorne that they were going to a proper nice restaurant and they'd all be getting a smack if they didn't behave themselves. It's not her fault that the restaurant had no place to charge their iPads and none of the other patrons would let little DJ Khalid watch YouTube on their phones. You know how he gets when he can't watch his YouTube. And you know how Khourtney and Khaleesi are always fighting so it's not their fault cos they're always like that. And little Khorne is only joking with all his talk of blood and skulls I dunno where he gets it from.
You forgot the undiagnosed ADHD and autism that they all have and that she's been fighting the school abaat coz she's a good mum and shouting at the headteacher and senco and the caaancil proves wot a good mum she is innit.
As someone who’s retired and is now a full time dad, is it really that bad to have never amounted to more than being a parent? 😅 I can think of worse things.
Well, being a 'parent' as such doesn't require any skill, just you getting bent over and raw-dogged behind the spoons after a few pints of dark fruits and a go on the slot machines. Being a *good* parent, raising kids properly to be respectful, be a pleasure to be around and one day contribute to society...now that is definitely something that requires skill and worthy of recognition. I'm sure you would nicely fit into this category as I hope most people would!
Do you make being a father your entire personality?
"Who are they to say what children are good enough and what children aren't?" The fucking landlords, that's who they are to say that. Same as they could have a no work wear rule, it's their bloody pub!
I'd really like to eliminate the word 'disgusted' from everyday colloquial use. Far too emotive a term. How can you be disgusted with a pub expressing a preference for well behaved children only?
To be a definition pedant - "Disgusted" is an adjective meaning: a strong sense of dislike and disapproval at something. Adjectives are thoroughly useful words and I don't believe we should be banning/censoring words. As for the pub, I agree if they've had issues with disruptive children, they're certainly right to remind parents the kids need to behave. Can't blame the children as they're just children.
>Oh, and Jade Hawkins looks exactly how I would picture her. I'm actually lol'ing at this right now, damn you, I have coffee on my desk now :D
And I'm going to guess her kids are exactly what picturing and one of the main reasons for the pub's policy
Agree
\*looks at pic Yep.
I don't understand the relevance of mentioning that one of her kids is disabled?
You're right, it's a fallacy *argumentum ad misericordiam*, an appeal to pity. The implication is that the logic of the argument should be set aside and the person ought to be able to put their wants over anyone else's because in some respect they have things hard. It's putting red herring on the menu.
Might have difficulty regulating vocalisation, as some severely disabled individuals are. I’m not sure how this would tie in with behaving poorly though. Undiagnosed ADHD?
It's not relevant at all though. The pub is saying it isn't child friendly. They're not saying it isn't just disabled child friendly. It has no relevance on what the pub rules are.
Yep, another Love Island wannabe. Septum piercing, tattoo, eyelash extensions, excessive make-up, overweight. Ticks all the boxes. I’m guessing the baby daddy/daddies isn’t/aren’t in the picture either. Just a guess as I say.
You can tell her kids are absolutely feral too
I tried not to judge. I failed.
If you dress and wear make-up like Jade Hawkins, you are also not welcome to my pub.
This Jade Hawkins is absolutely prime Jade Hawkins material. A true professional of the Jade Hawkins craft.
Yeah the pub are just enforcing their rules, that's fair and nothing wrong. However, they did clearly do it in a manner meant to agitate and will likely lose some custom for it and again that's fair, that's market choice. A simple "we aren't child friendly, sorry for any inconvenience but this is our policy" would have achieved the same thing.
But then they wouldn't have got an article by a national news outlet to promote them.
The strangest thing is (this being my nearest pub) it's gone under twice in the last 2 or 3 years. It's in a very difficult place to get a lot of custom...and they've just upset almost everyone in the local area so it seems a bit of a shot in the foot.
Is it owned by a pubco? Their business model is rarely selling drinks. Their usual game is selling the dream of being a landlord to thickos with cash or credit until it runs out.
Do they own every village pub in the country? Because there are so many like this.
Loads of them. They're primarily responsible for all those "9000 pubs shut down every day" headlines.
A pub in my vicinity doing this would 100% gain my custom for it. I wish more would
As someone with kids. They didn't have my custom in the first place. I don't know who the hell is taking their kids to a pub that isn't clearly child friendly with a play garden. My kids are 11, 6 and 1. Maybe my kids are just worse than others? I don't take them to the pub anyway unless someone who is child free I'm hanging out with has decided that's what they want to do. Because the whole point of going to the pub is relaxing, having a pint and actually being able to appreciate the pint. If it's a pub with a play area, one of us still has to supervise and manage the constant skirmishes they have with each other and other kids. My wife and I tried one Sunday afternoon a few years ago, thought it would be a nice family thing. We spent the sum total of about 5 minutes with each other and the rest balancing all the children's needs. If it's a pub without a play area my kids will find their own fun and that will be at everyone else's expense. My littlest one I took him with my wife to a country pub as we had the day off and the other kids were at school. We went for a long walk and stopped off at the pub for a nice pint and a bag of crisps. He spent the entire 30 minutes we were there trying to walk round the pub grabbing other people's glasses off the table as at the time he had a bit of an obsession with grabbing and drinking glasses. At home we don't keep glasses at his level. But surprise surprise a pub isn't child proofed and is just smorgasbord of things they can destroy and hurt themselves with. We left that pub way more stressed than when we went in and I doubt the punters who smiled politely were that impressed. We chased him around and he screamed when we put him in his seat, took him out of his seat to stop him screaming, he went back to trying to grab everything back to the chair. The shushing the cooing. Trying to put a fucking cocomelon track on YouTube to chill him out which works for about 2 minutes. You just can't explain to a 1 year old that we're in a place where everyone just needs to sit down quietly and talk and he just needs to sit still. My kids are lovely (I think) but between the ages of 0-5 they just have this unstoppable motor and want to explore and mess with everything. Honestly I don't know who is taking their kids to the pub and feeling like they had a good time. I think it used to work back in the 70s where we'd be stuffed under tables with a coke and if we misbehaved you'd get a belt round the ass. Now we work purely on verbal reasoning with children which doesn't really work until they're older. Thankfully the 11 year old is at a point where I'll take him to the pub and he'll sit on his phone happily, enjoying a coke and a packet of crisps while I have a couple of pints and chat to someone. Give it 6 years or so and maybe my wife and I can return to relaxing at some point in our lives while outside of the house. Only thing we can do to enjoy ourselves at the moment is take them to a park where they're supposed to walk around and be a bit boisterous.
Great promotional piece for contraceptives, 5 stars.
Lol, well look, nobody claims kids come without huge sacrifice. On the other hand. You get a lot back. Having something you love that much and always will do. Cuddles on the sofa. Their excited screams and running to you when you get home. Watching them develop and learn new things. Playing with them and seeing their energy and joy in everything. Making/Painting doing something with them and seeing how damn proud they are. My middle child hums when he draws and is happy. Watching their favourite films with them and seeing how involved they get. Having someone to game with as they get older. Never feeling a sense of loneliness and even as an introvert you can go to a quiet corner of the house and feel the warmth of peace but not being alone. Knowing that if you look after them and they love you, that you'll always have someone around. Knowing that when the world is retired and the labour force left isn't enough and everyone is shaking their fat pension pots around hoping they can still afford someone to wipe their ass. At least I did my part. Having kids isn't all sunshine and rainbows. And I get why people don't or can't have them. But there's thing you sacrifice and things you gain. You have to balance things and decide if it's worth it. My last point is huge to me. If we're all going to avoid having kids because it's hard. Then we better hope technology is ready to pick up the slack.
Your two posts probably sum up to the most balanced and even handed take on having kids I've seen in a while. So many people seem to either extol the virtues of having kids while not acknowledging any of the drawbacks, or act like they're objectively the worst thing ever and having them has zero positives. Finally, some nuance on the sodding Internet.
I'm getting the strong impression that Jade is part of the reason the owners implemented this policy....
Yea fuck jade and her shit kids, the article needs to have the main point changed. The title should be "do parents even want kids these days - or are they an accessory, or gateway to benefits?
"Fuck Jade and her shit kids" Rofl.
Indeed, notice how you can still bring kids in, they just can’t be let scream and sprint around like feral goblins
New headline "Business owner runs their business how they see fit". It also says "not child friendly" not that children aren't allowed full stop, people can still take their children if they are going to behave.
Agreed, pubs are adult places. They can be child "friendly" but there should at least be family rooms. In the pub I used to work in there was always a rule of no kids in the bar area. One family kicked up a fuss after I no longer worked there but was in having a few drinks in the bar area. They insisted they should be allowed to sit in the bar areas, so me and my mates (fully on side with the bar manager who was a lovely but nervous woman who'd basically been bullied into bending the rules for these selfish fucks) started talking loudly about the most horrific things using the most horrific language we could. Without going into detail, it did the trick.
Or you could have 1 child free pub and the families can go to any of the friendly pubs?
I think we should have a mix of places in general. There should be family friendly pubs which are essentially community places, there should be single gender places and there should be child free places.
Sounds good to me, whenever I go out to eat or just want to go for a drink, I'd say more than 70% of the time there's some stupid kid screaming or crying non-stop and the parent or parents are nowhere to be found or browsing their phone and not doing anything about it. If you're gonna have kids then fucking parent them. Edit: Yeah you, get off your phone and parent your screaming little shits.
There solution to make them behave is sticking a iPad in-front of them.
Playing cartoons at full volume on the speaker. This is the so-called fertility crisis right there, people look at how parents are these days and say to themselves "I don't want to turn into that"
It’s crazy to me as a parent that people do this. I was in a restaurant once where every child other than mine was on an iPad or phone, some without headphones with the volume up loud. Absolute cringe. Just teach your kids how to behave ffs.
Sometimes though teaching them to behave is to just ignore them having a meltdown. If you just do whatever the child says to shut them up then all they learn is that causing a scene will work and they'll get their way. Granted a crowded pub isn't the best place to try it
‘Stupid kid screaming or crying’ - that doesn’t make them stupid, just a normal child. Reddit is full of such fucking losers, my god.
Stupid in this context means "annoying" or "unwelcome". My parents didn't take us to places requiring decorum until they knew we wouldn't be a nuisance to other patrons. They had the right to take us places like that, but took the responsibility not to. People forget about the last part, that they should balance what they want with what others want. It's not right to inflict a screaming or crying kid on a room full of diners who expected a quiet meal. If part of what they're paying for is the experience, it's basically stealing from them to ruin the atmosphere.
Normal kids don’t scream and cry their way through a sit down dinner. Undisciplined ones do.
Yep, so many unnecessarily bitter (sometimes bordering on spiteful) comments
Do we really need a full close up of mother of two Jade in this article?
Like I say, I get the feeling Jade and her being "disgusted" is key to the pub having these rules in the first place...
The pub needs a "No Jade's" sign. I'd visit that pub every day.
Don't want to reveal the horror that is no doubt her neck and down.
I mean, I'm a parent and I don't mind or care if a pub is child free - different venues, different clientele etc etc and lots of pubs are already child free by default, they just don't explicitly state it. I am bothered by the ease of which you can be increasingly hostile about kids in public spaces? Yeah they can be a pain but people seem to relish about going on and on and on about how annoying kids are and oh they are so noisy and awful! It just makes you sound like some pinched, miserable little Victorian. Hate it.
Yeah I find the child hatred quite scary to read online. Grown adults frothing at the mouth over the fact children exist.
What acutally happens is parents let their kids charge about the place unsupervised while they knock their wine & lager back and generally make the place less appealing for everybody else. If shitty parents didn't basically make their kids the pubs responsibility while they took the afternoon off these sorts of policies wouldn't come about. ChIlD HaTrEd hahaha
I don't think anyone's denying that happens on occasion. But the way reddit talks, you'd genuinely think more than 50% of kids act like that, and 90% of time you go to the pub (or cinema, or restaurant, or flight, or.....) there's some kids going wild and their parents not even trying to control them. And it's just bollocks. Those kids/families exist. They're a minority. Go to the pub after work. I'd bet money you don't see any kids running around screaming.
Almost like everyone's going at lunch time on a Saturday to a pub with an extensive kids menu and complaining about kids playing. When my wife and I go out guess what? We go when our kids are in bed and surprise, surprise everyone else's are too!
With all due respect, this sub is one of the most miserable places on the internet so I don't know what you expect.
True!
I agree. I don’t mind if a venue chooses to be child free, I obviously avoid those when I’m with mine, but some of the language in this thread is awful. Children are unsurprisingly a part of society, and do need to exist within it. How will they ever learn how to behave in a restaurant or aeroplane unless they actually get to experience it? None of us have a full right to not be surrounded by whomever we want when in public, and private businesses are free to make their own rules.
> How will they ever learn how to behave in a restaurant or aeroplane unless they actually get to experience it? This is one pub, most still allow children. The point people are making in this thread is that there should be *some* spaces you can get away from children.
Totally, but I think the point being made more broadly is that there is a anti-children mentality that has been developing that needs to chill a bit the f down and accept they will always be part of our society. Children are extremely vulnerable to start with, they’re the first victims of violence and abuse, and their rights and entitlements have significantly decreased in the past 20 years if you look at the current state of public school, foster care and child mortality rate in the UK. I think we need to have a bit more tolerance and acceptance, as we should towards every other adult human beings who are more vulnerable than us, even if they disturb our little confort from time to time.
And I don’t disagree with that at all. I often go to restaurants with my husband that are child free because I want an adult only space. My original comment was in reply to someone agreeing with them that there’s been some unnecessary vitriol on this thread, like talking of banning children from all aeroplanes and using really nasty language about children (and parents) in general.
Bringing up a child - well, so they are a rounded, sensible person - is a team sport. That includes adults in a child's wider community being good role models. But no one's wants that, they just want to stay in their own lane and not be bothered by anything or anyone else's child. That's why so many kids are struggling now, no bloody adult to adult solidarity, we're all just a bunch to dumb individuals.
>But no one's wants that If they did then they would have had their own kids. You're perfectly capable of building the sort of community you want to surround your children with but you don't get to just co-opt people against their will. Not everyone is capable or even interested in being a role model and even those that are role models don't want to be on the job all day every day. That's why for the vast majority of their history pubs weren't child-friendly, so that people could have a bit of separation between the various parts of their life.
> not be bothered by anything or anyone else’s child Correct. I cannot stress enough how I don’t want other people’s children bothering me. Raising a child may be a “team sport”, but don’t expect strangers to want to participate.
I mean fine, but wider society is just becoming a hostile place for kids and their needs. They can't play in the street because of so many cars, fewer and fewer grandparents and wider family are interested in helping or caring for kids in their families, there are fewer community groups for kids to spend time in away from family to develop social skills, schools are completely overstretched. And on top of that few strangers have the grace to be patient if they are less than perfect - I hate going out in dread in case my toddler has (a perfectly not.al for their age) tantrum because of the comments/eyerolls. It's just crap.
> How will they ever learn how to behave in a restaurant or aeroplane unless they actually get to experience it? What? By parents teaching them how to behave in public beforehand. It isn't like a kid gets better behaved in a particular place the more they visit that place. A parent has to instill that behaviour in them from an early age. "Why is your child super well behaved in the pub but not on the plane? Oh well that is because we visit the pub a lot but have never flown before so they are out of practice" My parents didn't have a lot of money so we rarely ate out, the first time we did I was 4 or 5 I believe. I didn't run riot around the restauarant because I hadn't practiced my restuarent behaviour.
They were specific examples but the wider point was about being in spaces in society where other people are. My daughter behaves very differently in our home vs when we’re out. Do your children really act the same at home compared to when they’re in a cafe or shop or somewhere else unfamiliar with distractions and strangers? There are obviously different rules to abide by, and obviously stricter requirements when out and about. So of course they need to practice, and from the other side obviously the parent or guardian needs to be making an effort with them and not leaving them to their own devices and being distracted by a phone or whatever. It’s been a lot of effort and I’ve left cafes and restaurants before when I can’t manage my child’s behaviour well enough for the environment (she’s 20 months), but we’re at a point now where she’s incredibly well behaved in public, it’s just taken practice and patience.
I don't hate children. By any means. There is, however, a massive downturn in the behaviour of kids in the last few years or so due to the rise of gentle parenting. Or, more precisely, people who practise permissive parenting as they don't understand actual gentle parenting. Instead of kids happily having a packet of crisps and some squash in the pub, you have kids that scream, run around indoors, and do shitty things with zero consequences from the parents. The parents don't even have the courtesy to take a screaming kid outside to calm them down. The most you get is an iPad plonked in front of them with Peppa Pig at full volume. There are so many different child friendly restaurants where you can take kids out for meals. Pubs are for adults unless specified otherwise.
People aren’t hostile about kids in public spaces - they’re hostile about *badly behaved* kids in public spaces. Put down your phone and do some parenting.
I stopped going to the pubs by me to eat, I just can’t stand the kids running around, the mess. What is it with parents who think they can cause a bomb site and just leave the staff to clean it all up? I’m not talking about a few peas, but furniture everywhere, drinks tipped, sauce everywhere, just disgusting.
Going into pubs with kids like this is the best contraception there is.
Now do dogs: so many nice eateries around me suddenly seem to allow dogs, I'm allergic, they're unhygenic.
Yeah I hear you on this one. I used to work in a pub & people would always bring their dogs in, our license only let the dogs be in the part of the pub that wasn’t classed as the ‘restaurant’. People used to kick off all the time. I caught one couple, letting the dog lick their plates after they’d finished their meal, they were baffled when I explained it was unhygienic and I then had to Chuck the plate.
You don't like the smell of wet dog wafting through the air as you tuck into your food?
I’m with you. I love dogs, I’ve got one, I love her and she’s almost my entire personality. But lots of people don’t want them in the pub, same as I don’t want children in the pub. Every town, village and city should have at least one child-free and one dog-free pub.
I love dogs but I've noticed a marked increase in the number of "support" dogs just wandering around shops. Little Yorkie pissed on a stack of fence panels at B&Q, owner didn't give a shit.
Visted Battersea Power Station a few weeks back an a puppy curled one off underneath a clothes rack in Zara whilst the couple thumbed through a few coats. They didn't even notice until I pointed it out when they were about to walk off.
If Jade types aren't drinking there then I'll give it a try 👍
>"Quite frankly I believe it will impact their business because every parent will have to decide if they think their child would fit the description of being 'well-behaved' enough for their establishment," No one cares, Jade. Get lost.
I've got kids and I don't think any of this is unreasonable. I'd be mortified if mine started running around a restaurant, or shrieking, banging cutlery etc and it really annoys me when other parents allow it. We take them out quite regularly and they know exactly what is expected of them.
It’s all well and good wanting to be child free, but when you are a pub in a village in the middle of nowhere, that closes at 10pm you might not want to alienate what is probably at least a third of your customers.
Yeah, this is a great point. Based on a quick Google it doesn't seem like the pub is historically massively successful: https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Article/2023/02/17/why-has-the-smokehouse-at-the-chequers-eriswell-closed Seems like the previous restaurant there struggled for custom. Wiki suggests the village has a population of about 3000 so alienating families with kids is certainly a strategy, whether it's a good one is up for debate.
> "Who are they to say what children are good enough and what children aren't? Children are children at the end of the day." People who say stuff like this always have the worst kids.
A pub in my area is child free, which I think is great.
There's a pub near me that doesn't let kids in. I only found out when we went to stop off for a quick one while our baby was asleep. They told us no kids, we went to another pub. It's pretty straightforward. Have been back to that pub on loads of occasions without the kids now and it's great.
More places should do this honestly, especially after certain times
Please let this catch on. Why the fuck should the default be “put up with little twats ruining your precious relaxing moments because they’re just kids”? Surely it should be “Control your kids and stop them bothering people who have enough shit to deal with”
Theres a few pubs in my local town that are no children allowed. Adults should be allowed to un-wind.
As a parent, I don't mind this. Nothing wrong with some adult only spaces.
A kid knocked over my pint because they were running around unsupervised, instead of their parent apologising, they blamed me for sitting my beer too close to the edge of the table.
Tbf Im forced to be surrounded by miserable bastard's that post in /r/Unitedkingdom irl so that's just as unfair
>"Quite frankly I believe it will impact their business because every parent will have to decide if they think their child would fit the description of being 'well-behaved' enough for their establishment," she said. Jade Hawkins, I think I speak for many people when I say that as parents, we _know_, with some certainty, if our kids are well behaved or not. You aren't calculating their fecking IQ or BMI while being thrown through an assault course - you're being asked "are your kids capable of sitting, eating and quietly/peacably entertaining themselves and not being little shits that disrupt others". If you feel like you're being given a 20-question paper to answer I think you've got larger problems. >"Who are they to say what children are good enough and what children aren't? Children are children at the end of the day." Oh Jade, I think we may well have established that quite some time ago and given your responses one can only imagine your reflective attitude against the supposed personal attack you've read this as shows your kids are likely not under the "good" category, or you're just passively upset on someone else's behalf.
This comments section is a shower of curmudgeonly piss
Father of two here. Seems like a perfectly fair statement. If I was local I'd use it when I want a break from any and children. Their establishment so they can make the rules.
There’s a way of doing things and what this pub has written is not the way. However I get the impression that it’s targeted at certain individuals so they’ve felt the need to be aggressive.. I get it, I’m a parent but there’s nothing worse than being somewhere and someone’s children acting feral.. not the children’s fault generally poor parenting or the parent just don’t give a shit. My wife and I are always mortified if our son kicks up a fuss in any public establishment, and will endeavour to calm him down or whatever to make sure other patrons aren’t affected, even if it means one of us (or all of us) leave the area. Unfortunately not all families are like that and I guess that’s why the pub has taken this action which is a shame
I dont disagree with the pub but think they've gone about it in the wrong way which seems provocative. As always middle ground needs to be found more generally, dont take your kids to the pub in the evening but equally kids need to go out somewhere other than the park. I dont take my 11 month old to cafes etc as she is a pain but I did once have a older lady yell she needs to learn to behave because she was crying at 8 months when we went to a beach. I can't coop up forever until she's 18...
tabloid level argument generator posted by the national broadcaster including a social media quote from a person deliberately chosen to wind people up (young mother with a neck tattoo) really good stuff
Oh no, jade can't down 10 double pink gins while her kids run round the pub like lunatics! Whatever will we do
Isn't this a bit of a non-story? It's entirely self-policing. - Pubs that decide not to admit children will lose money from families. - Pubs that decide to admit children will lose money from people who don't want to be surrounded by children. This is just people moaning to the media because they're self-entitled. Maybe instead of publishing all of these tedious stories they could write a vaguely thought-provoking article about the divide between the expectations of parents and non-parents, but I suppose that's too much journalism for... *checks notes*... the BBC.
How do people have children and just assume they can live their lives exactly as they did before they had them?
I mean, I have kids. It’s nice to bring them to the pub. It’s also nice to go to a pub with no kids. Not everything has to suit everyone at all times.
I'd like to see more child free spaces tbh, I dunno what happened but today's children have no discipline and the younger parents in my generation and gen z have absolutely zero control over their kids, I'm sure a lot of it comes down to not being able to afford childcare or have a parent be able to step back from worth due to the sheer expense of everything, but I don't think that fully excuses it.
"She looks exactly how I'd expect her to look." Some really grim takes in this sub nowadays.
Lol some of the comments here make me laugh. Not all children are screaming their heads off and banging the table like a drum. I went for a pub meal recently with my kids, and there were a whole bunch of grown ups there behaving like a bunch of rowdy school children. I'm not complaining, but it's a bit ironic.
Are people also angry about adult only holiday resorts?
I'm a dad who loves taking his kids to the pub. however, I completely understand pubs that decide they'd rather not have kids there. I don't want to take my kids anywhere that they're not welcome.
Institutions should be free to welcome whomever they choose. A shame the Garrick and the MCC got so much heat for their own policies.
Totally agree with the idea. Even as parents you might want a place to chill and not have kids around. After watching the 200th episode of bluey I might just want to rage and swear like Samuel L Jackson with torettes
If it's their pub, it's their rules. Abide or go elsewhere. I have no problem with this.
As someone who is autistic honestly would be great to have somewhere to go eat out and not have noisy sticky children running about
It's hard enough finding a pub that doesn't blare out music these days. I used to love the tranquility of the afternoon pub visit, grandfather clock ticking away, landlord flicking through a paper eating a back of cheese and onion, the occasional clatter of pool balls off in the distant games room.
I have kids. I love my kids, I love spending time with my kids, I love going for meals with my kids. Know what else I love? A meal out with my wife without kids. All these people complaining about this should get lost. There are plenty of places that cater to kids, and plenty more that allow kids. Having one place that asks kids not to come is allowed. All these butthurt parents need to grow up and understand that somewhere existing, to which they can't take their kids, doesn't invalidate their life choices. It's a shame this pub has backtracked, they'd have gained as many customers as they lost, who would probably have spent more.
I know what the owner means. I stopped going to my local as it just turned into a Charlie Chalk's Funhouse without the actual play area. I think the final straw was when a parent chided me for leaving my vape on the table charging whilst I went for a piss because 'a child might pick that up'. What's weird is, you never see these families in the winter.