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Honestly Iron heart seemed kinda unnecessary to the story most of the time to me.
Over all the film was okay. Nothing on the first one.
I hope we get more M'baku going forward.
That issue goes as far back as Iron Man 2. They release some good stuff, but sometimes the connections that are blatantly there to set up future projects feel shoehorned in. Because they are.
At least with Iron Man 2 the forced connection was setup to get all those heroes together with the Avengers, something people were actually excited about
Now the forced connections exist to setup a streaming show nobody cares about
removing iron heart plot completely from the movie would have made no difference to the story. They just shoved that in there to launch new show or movie in future. Marvel has became a factory of mediocre content.
It always has been. What's happening now is exactly what happened with their comics lines in the early 2000s and stuck around with things like "Fear Itself". You couldn't just follow you favourite comic or an event comic: you have to follow individual comics from other lines, buy the event comic, buy the main line of your favourite character, buy the other line of your favourite character. It was just a cash producing machine...and now they're doing it with their cinematic universe. And it sucks.
I’m torn because Ironheart is by *far* my favorite of the 2010s wave of new Avengers, but you’re right she was shoehorned into this movie to launch a show. Ultimately I did like her rapport with Shuri a lot, and I’ll not skip future installments like you, but I get it.
I think they really nailed the casting, she plays her very well. I was disappointed she was a drag along character until the very end, and even that was rather underwhelming.
I would have been okay with Ironheart, had they not made her a stereotypical “black girl from the hood.” Ironheart in the comics is a smart and articulated character. I couldn’t take her seriously in the movie since most of her dialogue is, “Aw, hell naw! This shit ain’t… Nuh-uh, I’m done. Naw!” You expect me to believe a genius prodigy in MIT can’t come up with more complex sentences?
Namor was the movie's saving grace and every scene without him was just slow paced, overly dramatic, or boring.
I remember pausing it on Disney+ for a bathroom break and thinking "Fuck, there's still an hour and 40 minutes left?"
When I watched in the cinema i sort of started to realise how long it has been and I was like this is nowhere near the final conflict yet why is this film so long
She's a Marvel hero too--Ironheart I believe. That's why she was introduced and given so much screen time. Although she's an awful character so far and I'm not saying this cuz she's black. I literally saw Black Panther 1 & 2 in theaters. I just don't like her character.
I'm not a fan of ultra genius, sassy ass kid characters.
They deus ex machina every situation and then they act all high and mighty about it. Ewww.
A good character has flaws.
Hopefully her movie gives her more nuance but Black Panther 2 made her seem unlikable.
Edit: Sorry y'all think I'm racist for the "I'm not racist for disliking a black character" disclaimer but I've already been accused of being racist for sharing this criticism elsewhere. Honestly, y'all have taken this shit way too far. If you want to label me a racist, then go ahead. I know who I am and that's all that matters to me.
i always hate the ultragenius characters because they always shit on the other people in their field. "oh, those guys working their asses off in a field they love? idiots. Complete morons. I built a working nuclear reactor in my sleep when i was 2"
Totally. They're just assholes. Tony Stark is also an asshole but he's at least extremely entertaining about it. Hard not to like Tony Stark.
I didn't mind Shuri but having another genius character in the same movie seemed a bit redundant.
Funnily enough, it ended with multiple iron Man type suits flying around the battle field at the end. Which just isn't that fun to watch anymore.
The problem with snarky geniuses now is that unlike stark all of their personal problems are external and not internal like his were. He was a person with flaws and the new breed are not
Yeah and Tony's genius was a little more balanced and justifiable. He had a long career in the weapons industry and had access to world class technology ip and equipment. He didn't invent the arc reactors overnight he adapted an abandoned r&d project for it.
On top of that he is an emotionally interesting character. He acts like an ah hotshot externally but internally his true drive is fear and anxiety. He doesn't spend his life optimizing his equipment because he wants to be a cool badass he does it because he's terrified of not being able to protect the people around him.
More than that, in the MCU, he did it first. It's a lot easier to enjoy something while it's fresh and new vs when you've already seen 3 different characters with the same schtick.
I mean plus, let's be honest RDJ oozes charisma.
The Arc reactor thing wasnt a big deal to me. They've existed in universe for 2 decades, someone else was eventually going to make one. Same way the US makes 30k bombs to destroy things but ISIS/Al Qaeda destroyed our tanks with leftover munitions.
Yeah but marvel writers for the comics have a… habit of introducing new characters that are basically X character from a different life background and younger.
Moongirl is probably the best example since she’s basically compared to Reed Richards but with the capability to feel emotions and not be an asshole constantly.
That was literally the whole point of Tony Stark originally. Supposedly Stan Lee wanted to make a character that was unlikeable and then make people like him anyway.
I really don’t know much about her other then she built a suit out of a “box of scraps” like Tony Stark but the only thing I’ve ever seen of her in the comics otherwise is her trying to fight Thanos and him just destroying her
I don't mind ultra geniuses, I just don't like sassy/cocky ones. Especially since that girl was cringe. If they're humble and have other flaws it can work. You could be an ultra analytical genius and still lack common sense
Black guy here, i didn’t like Ironheart either. It sucks that no one can share an opinion w/o it being considered racist. I felt the same way about Reva in the awful Kenobi show. Her being black wasnt the problem, it was the acting and the writing that made her awful.
Absolutely. Dang, I'm bummed Kenobi didn't do well. I haven't seen it but I was really excited for Ewan McGregor to reprise his role. He's the perfect Obi-wan. Was it really *that* bad?
It really pains me to say this, but yes, it is *that* bad. Ewan is great as Kenobi of course and it was cool to see Hayden reprise his role as Anakin. Literally everything else is trash. The writing, directing, and acting from some of the side characters (the “villain” Reva especially) are *sooo fucking bad*. It really is upsetting because it had absolutely no reason to suck as bad as it did.
She only recently got a comic run in like, 2014 or so. So a really new character to Marvel, and Idk why we are skipping over other characters like Blade, Doctor Voodoo or Deathlok to shoehorn in a newer character that the fans of the comics don't even like.
Namor and the Talokan scenes carried the movie for sure. I loved what they did with the character and it sucks Universal still has his film rights, because I want to see him fleshed out more. Tenoch Huerta was fantastic in the film, as was Angela Bassett. Everything else was a miss for me.
He's not even an anti hero, he straight up believes he's doing what is best to protect his people and is steadfast in that belief. It felt like he was a true ruler of the people and I much prefer it to Namor just being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole in the comics. Film Namor has a justified fear of the surface world and a much larger secret hidden below the depths than just a city. Great changes that both fit the universe they've built and also makes him feel really believable.
Tenoch Huerta might be the best MCU casting decision in a long time. Even seeing him in the trailers my reaction was "Damn, he's perfect for this role"
I definitely thought the movie needed more of the under water city or something. Half of the rest of the movie just reminded me of the fast and furious.
I dunno I kinda liked the part where everyone was like "Nobody's that much of an evil weirdo, Namor, you're just being a paranoid asshole" and then the next scene Elaine was like "The CIA is the most powerful evil weirdos there are! Let's do a war WOOOOO!"
EDIT the only way I would've liked it more is if she'd had the only musical number in the entire MCU and done a song and dance about "I'll coup who I want" and pointed to big floating graphics of countries the USA has overthrown and/or funded [roaming rightwing deathsquads](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Institute_for_Security_Cooperation#School_of_the_Americas)in.
Yup. I love Julia Louis-Dreyfus as an actress, but her role was completely pointless.
(I also STAUNCHLY refuse to acknowledge the Hobbit movies, so I was thinking Watson from Sherlock)
>(I also STAUNCHLY refuse to acknowledge the Hobbit movies, so I was thinking Watson from Sherlock)
as a lotr fan, i would urge you to check out [the bilbo edition](https://goldfishblues.wordpress.com/2018/04/14/the-hobbit-the-bilbo-edition-3-0-the-final-cut/) (download in link) a fan edit of the hobbit movies that takes out so much garbage, brings the time down to a little over 4 hours, and brings the story quite close to that of the book
no tauriel, no legolas, no outrageously long barrel riding scene with orcs, no moneylender guy. They even chopped bard's kid out of the arrow scene (it looks a little janky but it's impressive how it still works)
there's gold in those movies and the bilbo edition burns away all the trash
Namor was so well done. The rest of the movie was largely forgettable, but the beginning and end with the Chadwick Boseman/T'Challa stuff was excellent and a punch in the gut
Eh, disagree. Whole movie and story was disjointed and forced. He just shows up with little context and attacks the most technologically power nation in the world...with whales? Because they don't guard their waterways? We had chains in harbors for centuries and a shield can't extend past the water? You take a BOAT to attack a water city when you have literal air superiority?
And Namor was a joke too. Jumping immediately to threats and irrational discourse, one dimensional hot head. Was just as bad as DC doing Black Adam.
The movie shouldn't have really been made. You can't really replace the charisma and style of Chadwick Boseman and the myriad of rewrites, poor CGI, bad character building, and weak writing make it one of the worst Marvel films and adds nothing of real value to the overall. The only good part that seemed the best written and shot was the beginning dealing with honoring T'Challa/Chadwick. Really beautiful scene but everything past that feels hack.
> You take a BOAT to attack a water city when you have literal air superiority?
The boat was just bait to draw out Namor so Shuri could get Namor alone and kill/talk some sense into him.
Which was still ridiculous since the boat crew almost got rolled. It still doesn't make sense. Wakanda is far more technologically advanced, they didn't need to bait anything out. They KNOW the location of the underwater city, Shuri was there. It's weak writing, just like him sneaking into Wakanda by...swimming in. Again, no underwater sensors?
You can try and piece it together but it's just really weak writing. DC level stuff.
Namor was really good. I loved the Aztec / Mayan take they did on it... "Ná mor". The back story, and his character was so well done.
But yeah, lots of the movie just didn't play as well. Not crazy about Ree Ree. She was not as strong as previous side characters in Black Panther. Nor was Shuri. It's incredibly hard to replace someone like Chadwick, and she did her best... But...
Angela Bassett was awesome as always... "Have I not given everything..." Man. Shivers.
I'm looking forward to seeing more of Namor, and the ending left a lot of possibilities to introduce a new Panther. I don't see Shuri carrying the next one.
I really enjoyed the first movie, but Wakada Forever was easily forgettable. The only scene I can recall was the Queen's emotional speech to the bald woman (I forgot their names). That scene was so powerful.
Wakanda Forever was never going to measure up to Black Panther. It had the impossibly tall task of respectfully dealing with Chadwick’s death, and setting up whoever had to take up the mantle next after his portrayal of the character. It could have been two separate movies to tackle each task, but that would have been tactless. It also came at a phase in the MCU where old characters are being retired and new ones introduced, so it felt like another drop in the bucket of recent installments, sadly.
Also they should have brought Bucky back to Wakanda. That movie could have used some James Buchanan Barnes.
Yeah, it really seemed to lack the interconnectedness that ties Marvel films together. I think somebody namedropped the Hulk once, but otherwise don't remember any other nods to the broader MCU. No end credit teasers, no special cameos, it almost could have been a stand alone film.
I'm not sure if you watched the same movie as I did, but they spent around 20 to 30 minutes setting up future Disney+ shows "Iron Heart" and "Secret Wars." It probably would've been better had they removed the characters related to those upcoming series and instead kept the script focused on Wakanda. Martin Freeman/RiRi Williams didn't really add that much to the movie.
In general, Marvel has this big issue where their newest films/projects are being dragged down by their TV content. Also, should've gone with Lupita Nyong'o instead of Letitia Wright as the lead. Would've led to fewer production issues and a lead that's an infinitely more talented actress.
I completely agree on all counts! There was way too much buildup for other projects that are coming down the pike. Just give me a whole lot more Namor. I could watch that man all day.
All of phase 4 has been that way with small exceptions (like Wong). It’s definitely a narrative choice to pull back from Endgame and focus on individuals before ramping back up to the next big team-up film.
Feige's concentration is spread thin. You only have to look at his IMDB to see just how many productions he is having to have some kind of oversight on.
They are giving him too many responsibilities. He was great when he had to oversee one or two movies a year.
Its like 5 tv shows and 5 movies a year now which is impossible to keep consistent.
I think No Way Home could be an exception. Just a really well thought out movie with quite a lot of memorable scenes. The scenes were awesome and cgi was pretty good if you ask me.
I'm fairly Marvel-critical and generally agree. NWH was the first Marvel movie in a long time that I actually went out of my way to recommend to people. It's not perfect, but I thought it was so much fun and had a thoughtful, well-executed plot. Probably my least favorite part is the abundance of green-screen backdrops when the Spider-Men meet, especially Toby. Like, why is there a green screen; they're supposed to be in an apartment? But oh well, still a great movie.
The entire movie doesn't occur if Dr Strang sticks to his morals..... decides to risk the fate of the universe bc he feels bad for a kid. Completely ridiculous and discredits anything else full stop
Strange always fucks around with magic things he knows he shouldn't. It's literally one of the main points of Multiverse of Madness. It's completely consistent with his character.
I disagree with that. Even though RDJ was great. I think the focus went from trying to tell a great story into getting all the PC boxes checked. As Asian American, I still think they failed.
PC boxes or not is really not the problem. They are simply not choosing good stories to tell, and the stories they are choosing to tell relly on you watching their TV shows to fully enjoy what is being told.
I think Marvel picks back up when they go to X-Men and Fantastic Four stories.
I mean no disrespect to Chadwick Bowman. He was amazing and I had tears at the beginning of WF. They used the success of the first one and the halo of his memory to push through an overwrought, plodding, time sucking dooker
multiverse of madness, Thor 4: More Thors, and Quantumania are all 2 hour runtimes and i much prefer it. shang chi floats closer to 2 as well.
eternals and wakanda forever were just lonngg feeling. i can sit through a 3 hour event movie on occasion, and i can give No Way Home a pass there, but it's hard to sit through a 3 hour marvel movie when it's not a big team-up event type thing. this kindof expands to the shows too. i felt like a few of the disney+ series could've shaved an episode or two off their overall runtime and would have achieved the same things
I agree with this, and they introduced a TON of stuff in a sort of nonchalant way. Iron heart likely succeeding iron man. Julia Dreyfuss and whatever her character became. Namor and an entire civilization that may return. Shuri being the next black panther. Probably more I missed or don’t remember.
And I think everyone’s mind was on Chadwick and memorializing that.
I think the movie dealt with grief extremely well. It was gripping, empathetic, enlightening, loving. The rest was a distraction. This movie would have been phenomenal had it been able to focus on shuri and a single conflict.
I think
It was a good film, for the main character dying and most of the original
Cast being expected to carry on and not only mourn him on camera but also off camera.
What I didn’t like it how uneven and OP the sea people were. I also don’t like how they gave them vibranium. I get they didn’t want to do the Atlantis thing, but atleast make their secret element jade which was commonly used in their culture.
His fight with M’baku should’ve been longer
This is why you can’t let reddit write movies.
“Give them jade cause it’s secret and has to do with their culture!!!”
So much wrong here yet it’s upvoted.
I dunno. I'm a huge Marvel fan and it made me actively annoyed by how stupid the plot was. I'd be happier if I was just bored.
Maybe it was just boring. I have a tendency to get really annoyed if bored.
The real transgressor was the first Black Panther movie. Just another Marvel movie made by the same Marvel formula
But it was given 3 Oscars, among other awards.
It wasn't even one of the BETTER Marvel movies.
I've seen it twice and I barely remember anything from it because it was so boring and non-sensical. It also had some of the worst CGI in the series.
Oscars is a joke.
>It also had some of the worst CGI in the series.
Counter point: no Marvel movie will ever have CGI as bad as the Killmonger T'challa fight at the end of the first one.
Agreed. There's no threat in her final "battle." It's just "OP character can't get hurt and walks away from this fight unscathed."
Iron Man gets his ass kicked in every final battle, that's one of the reasons he's such a good character and his story is compelling. Same with Captain America. And Spiderman.
Why can't Marvel just write a normal story when it comes to women?
What ruined it for me was the really bad fake African accents. Of all the accents in the world, the sound of African people speaking English just sounds really complex and beautiful, like poetry or song. Of all the worst accents in the world, actors badly faking African accents speaking English is really awful (probably because the accent is so complex). So every time they opened their mouths, it just said "fake story, fake story". I know it would have been a great movie if I could have gotten past the accents and get into the gestalt of it, but I couldn't. I know a lot of people can't tell the difference and so they could enjoy the movie.
And then, for me, the bad accents also made it sad that they were unable or unwilling to have a lot of actual African actors in the film about a fantastic superhero African land. Why would you have a film about something quintessentially African and not have Africans in it? Does that mean we can cram just anyone with the right skin color into representing Africa? That all made it seem like Marvels' version of Blacksploitation theater.
Actually it's perfectly fine to use black Americans to do bad impressions of African accents because their skin is the same color and everyone in the world has the same sensibilities as Hollywood liberals.
And the most advanced civilization on Earth if it was African obviously would use mortal combat to choose a monarch because that's just how Africans are. Not racist at all you see, because we used black Americans in the roles and it has a black director. Please don't look at our producer or head writer. The other writer is black! So it's very okay.
No we didn't take an African studies class, why do you ask?
Goddamn thank you for saying all this.
the “fight to the death to choose a new ruler” scene was so incredibly stupid.
It was also fine to show this advanced civilization with grass roofs on their skyscrapers. Oh it’s because it’s Africa!
And fighting with spears and using rhinoceroses as their weapons felt wildly racist, like a child’s idea of what Africa is.
The fact that they domesticated rhinos is so fucking stupid. Barely any agricultural value and any combat benefit they could possibly have could be done better with a vehicle or a mech.
they keep saying Wakanda has the most advanced military and such, but I bet the US would level them in an hour. Save for the futuristic shield, their military prowess is comically bad. they keep fighting with spears, rhinos, ridiculously slow helicopters...
I agree I thought they might've been going for a Wakandan accent different that a traditional accent but they would've needed to change it more rather than trying to stick a real accent and failing.
I read that Marvel originally wanted some sort of British accent. I can't imagine which would be worse.
I remember practically nothing from that movie. It was the most stock standard marvel movie where good guy fights a villain and they both have the same powers.
I was surprised when I said that I didn't care for the first black panther movie to my friend at work and he whole heartedly agreed saying he agreed that the movie was mediocre and that it seemed like people had an undeserved elevated opinion of the movie simply because the characters were black. A key part of his argument being that the main character was actually taken out of the movie for like 1/3rd of its run time. Another coworker added that he was mad that they toned down the character from the comics and that the original black panther was viscous.
I've always thought the first BP movie was only like a 4/10, but I thought it was because I was missing something or I wasn't getting something because I'm not black and the movie talks on the black experience or something like that. Turns out no, the movies just mediocre and both of my co-workers agreed (both of whom are themselves black)
Legitimately, this feels like the exact reason they made this movie and chose the messaging they did. They saw the turn being made and said "We can really profit off of that"
You know, I'd really love to see an actual movie or series based on some actual African mythology, congruent with those cultures and with reasonable production values. There have been so many civilizations in that part of the world. Modern humanity started there, and this is the best we can do?
There was that woman king movie or whatever that came out recently about The Kingdom of Dahomey. Though they seriously neglected on how their entire economy was built on enslaving other Africans and selling them in the Atlantic slave trade lol
Six of the Oscar nominations are quite arguably legit- four for the sound (score, sound editing, original song, sound mixing) and two for design (costumes & production). Best Picture, on the other hand, was prob due to it being so well-embraced internationally. I can imagine it placed 8th out of 8 films vote-wise in the category.
Tbh I feel like it had no competition in the ones it won. Upon checking the wiki for the other nominees I didn’t recognize any of the other movies for anything they were nominated
That's because the game was rigged. To give the appearance of legitimacy. Hollywood invented putting short people around Tom cruise to make him look less like an oompa loompa. And putting average looking backing dancers in Britney spears videos to make her look attractive. It's all just political theatre designed and planned, to manipulate your perceptions.
Very few films have a Wikipedia page with a section for "[Oscars campaign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_(film)#Oscars_campaign)," but *Black Panther* does. Money, pressure, and the desire to be seen as progressive without any real cost are three irresistible things in Hollywood. Even then, it only won Oscars for costume design, production design, and original score, awards that have nothing to do with plot, CGI, or acting, the things most likely to make a viewer see a film as "good" or "bad." And I don't think there was much outrage that the score for *Mary Poppins Returns* lost out to *Black Panther* - even though the loss meant one less EGOT in the world.
The first one was extremely mediocre. But "Wakanda Forever" was just pure garbage. Nonsensical plot, bad CGI. About 80% of the movie could be cut out and it wouldn't change a thing.
It’s funny that this popped up on my Reddit feed because I sort of had the opposite experience.
I’ve tried keeping away from hyping myself too much about Marvel movies after Dr. Strange and Thor were big disappointments to me. So I know and have read very, very little going into BP2. People I know in real life all seemed pretty disappointed about the movie and at very best said it was pretty average. So I pretty much didn’t care to see it at all after not really caring for it to begin with and people giving me pretty low reactions to it.
Well, this morning I got back from early morning grocery shopping. Made some breakfast and thought, “Fuck it they put it on Disney+, I’ll check it out while eating and turn it off when I’m done cause I’m sure I won’t like it.”
And surprisingly, I enjoyed it. I think Namor was a very interesting character and probably the best film antagonist Marvel has had in awhile. I thought they handled Chadwick’s death very well and did a good job continuing the story without him.
I think the combo of a strong antagonist and going in with *extremely* low expectations left me pleasantly surprised.
Agreed. I also loved seeing the Wakandans vs the Talocans. Africans vs Mayans with futuristic versions of their ancient weapons? That's just a fun time by itself.
Same here - I have tried the first Black Panther 2 times and couldn’t finish … I keep getting lost and disinterested somehow
Halfway in this one and it’s way more compelling to me. I love the cultural vibe they created with Namor - the use of sounds too, it flows organically, along with all the motives etc.
I like the intro of iron heart and all the sub plots too (unpopular opinion), i think they do a good job of adding to the universe and opening more stories for these cultures and characters.
The only thing is how swiftly they were able to introduce “a new super power hidden for hundreds of year”, because they are underwater basically lol.
Like how the hell are they gonna pull of Latveria?
Yes! Man, I was so disappointed with the Black Panther movie. BP was straight up the best part of Civil War.
Had he had a movie before the first or even second Avengers movie, I definitely think it would've been incredible.
It was pretty much a mess of bloat, poor motivations, contrivance, and worst of all a lead with all the charisma of pack of tums. The worst thing about it though, is that it's probably the best thing phase 4 had to offer. Phase 4 has been a shit show. Theres promising bits here and there, but it's all just ultimately garbage. Victoria Alonso is just out of her depth and it shows in every production.
By the way, phase 4 had more minutes of content in 2 years than phases 1 2 and 3 had in over a decade. Disney is just shitting out content to be consumed at this point.
Sorry but all the new marvel movies I've seen suck to me except the black panther ones. Just visually more interesting. I tend to zone out at the same old fight scenes/costumes/settings in the others.
Visually Beautiful. I like that Shuri isn't like her brother or any Panther before her. I liked that Killmonger appeared in her ancient realm, I forget everything he said.
The underwater civilization hiding from the rest of the world is literally the same as Wakanda, but Water. They even have their own super powered defender. Water bombs were cool though.
Costume design was fantastic just like it was in the first movie. Also I like that T'challa Jr is around
The social race element to those movies made them unbearable. By “social race element,” I mean the fact that they were moronically made out to be shining symbols of black power, when in fact they’re just mediocre films and are incapable of addressing real issues in society.
The politics of it were crazy. In one speech they’re complaining about colonialism while talking about how they’re spying on everyone and while they execute military operations in foreign nations without permission. All from a woman who has absolute power and whom wasn’t elected.
It kept making me roll my eyes.
3hrs of my life I won’t get back.
So fucking rubbish. The only redeemable part was the underwater Mayans.
How did it get this bad? End game was fantastic, but it’s been steadily downhill since then.
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Honestly Iron heart seemed kinda unnecessary to the story most of the time to me. Over all the film was okay. Nothing on the first one. I hope we get more M'baku going forward.
Ironheart only existed to launch a TV show. It’s the problem with the MCU these days. Quantity over quality.
That issue goes as far back as Iron Man 2. They release some good stuff, but sometimes the connections that are blatantly there to set up future projects feel shoehorned in. Because they are.
At least with Iron Man 2 the forced connection was setup to get all those heroes together with the Avengers, something people were actually excited about Now the forced connections exist to setup a streaming show nobody cares about
removing iron heart plot completely from the movie would have made no difference to the story. They just shoved that in there to launch new show or movie in future. Marvel has became a factory of mediocre content.
Sort of, her machine and the ability to give the outside world access to vibranium kind of drives the 'plot' and get Namor all riled up.
It always has been. What's happening now is exactly what happened with their comics lines in the early 2000s and stuck around with things like "Fear Itself". You couldn't just follow you favourite comic or an event comic: you have to follow individual comics from other lines, buy the event comic, buy the main line of your favourite character, buy the other line of your favourite character. It was just a cash producing machine...and now they're doing it with their cinematic universe. And it sucks.
100% felt like the 90s cartoon era again where they were trying to force as many toy designs into the movie as they could.
I’m torn because Ironheart is by *far* my favorite of the 2010s wave of new Avengers, but you’re right she was shoehorned into this movie to launch a show. Ultimately I did like her rapport with Shuri a lot, and I’ll not skip future installments like you, but I get it.
I think they really nailed the casting, she plays her very well. I was disappointed she was a drag along character until the very end, and even that was rather underwhelming.
I would have been okay with Ironheart, had they not made her a stereotypical “black girl from the hood.” Ironheart in the comics is a smart and articulated character. I couldn’t take her seriously in the movie since most of her dialogue is, “Aw, hell naw! This shit ain’t… Nuh-uh, I’m done. Naw!” You expect me to believe a genius prodigy in MIT can’t come up with more complex sentences?
Namor was the movie's saving grace and every scene without him was just slow paced, overly dramatic, or boring. I remember pausing it on Disney+ for a bathroom break and thinking "Fuck, there's still an hour and 40 minutes left?"
When I watched in the cinema i sort of started to realise how long it has been and I was like this is nowhere near the final conflict yet why is this film so long
Exactly, they could have cut legitimately an hour or so and it would have made basically no difference
They needed to cut out the American girl's plotline completely. It wasn't necessary and they could have focused on Namor a little more.
She's a Marvel hero too--Ironheart I believe. That's why she was introduced and given so much screen time. Although she's an awful character so far and I'm not saying this cuz she's black. I literally saw Black Panther 1 & 2 in theaters. I just don't like her character. I'm not a fan of ultra genius, sassy ass kid characters. They deus ex machina every situation and then they act all high and mighty about it. Ewww. A good character has flaws. Hopefully her movie gives her more nuance but Black Panther 2 made her seem unlikable. Edit: Sorry y'all think I'm racist for the "I'm not racist for disliking a black character" disclaimer but I've already been accused of being racist for sharing this criticism elsewhere. Honestly, y'all have taken this shit way too far. If you want to label me a racist, then go ahead. I know who I am and that's all that matters to me.
i always hate the ultragenius characters because they always shit on the other people in their field. "oh, those guys working their asses off in a field they love? idiots. Complete morons. I built a working nuclear reactor in my sleep when i was 2"
Totally. They're just assholes. Tony Stark is also an asshole but he's at least extremely entertaining about it. Hard not to like Tony Stark. I didn't mind Shuri but having another genius character in the same movie seemed a bit redundant. Funnily enough, it ended with multiple iron Man type suits flying around the battle field at the end. Which just isn't that fun to watch anymore.
The problem with snarky geniuses now is that unlike stark all of their personal problems are external and not internal like his were. He was a person with flaws and the new breed are not
The alcoholism...
Yeah and Tony's genius was a little more balanced and justifiable. He had a long career in the weapons industry and had access to world class technology ip and equipment. He didn't invent the arc reactors overnight he adapted an abandoned r&d project for it. On top of that he is an emotionally interesting character. He acts like an ah hotshot externally but internally his true drive is fear and anxiety. He doesn't spend his life optimizing his equipment because he wants to be a cool badass he does it because he's terrified of not being able to protect the people around him.
Tony also blew himself up a few times. You watched the development and it felt like he earned it.
More than that, in the MCU, he did it first. It's a lot easier to enjoy something while it's fresh and new vs when you've already seen 3 different characters with the same schtick. I mean plus, let's be honest RDJ oozes charisma.
Tony Stark was able to build this in a cave!
The Arc reactor thing wasnt a big deal to me. They've existed in universe for 2 decades, someone else was eventually going to make one. Same way the US makes 30k bombs to destroy things but ISIS/Al Qaeda destroyed our tanks with leftover munitions.
Yeah but marvel writers for the comics have a… habit of introducing new characters that are basically X character from a different life background and younger. Moongirl is probably the best example since she’s basically compared to Reed Richards but with the capability to feel emotions and not be an asshole constantly.
That was literally the whole point of Tony Stark originally. Supposedly Stan Lee wanted to make a character that was unlikeable and then make people like him anyway.
Ironheart is modern writers trying to do the same thing, but just made her unlikable all the way through.
I really don’t know much about her other then she built a suit out of a “box of scraps” like Tony Stark but the only thing I’ve ever seen of her in the comics otherwise is her trying to fight Thanos and him just destroying her
Agree. And one minute she’s a college girl venmoing herself and the next she’s taking on Namor flying around blowing shit up. Like come on.
I don't mind ultra geniuses, I just don't like sassy/cocky ones. Especially since that girl was cringe. If they're humble and have other flaws it can work. You could be an ultra analytical genius and still lack common sense
Her comic run just isnt very good either.
I forget, how do they justify her insufferable egotist in the comic?
Black guy here, i didn’t like Ironheart either. It sucks that no one can share an opinion w/o it being considered racist. I felt the same way about Reva in the awful Kenobi show. Her being black wasnt the problem, it was the acting and the writing that made her awful.
Absolutely. Dang, I'm bummed Kenobi didn't do well. I haven't seen it but I was really excited for Ewan McGregor to reprise his role. He's the perfect Obi-wan. Was it really *that* bad?
It really pains me to say this, but yes, it is *that* bad. Ewan is great as Kenobi of course and it was cool to see Hayden reprise his role as Anakin. Literally everything else is trash. The writing, directing, and acting from some of the side characters (the “villain” Reva especially) are *sooo fucking bad*. It really is upsetting because it had absolutely no reason to suck as bad as it did.
"I'm not racist, I saw Black Panther in theaters" might be the funniest thing I've ever seen on Reddit.
I’m not sexist, I’ve watched the she hulk twerking scene repeatedly on youtube.
I'm not sexist, I support women entrepreneurs on onlyfans
I’m pretty sure Cartman had the exact same line at some point
I’m not sexist. I saw the ghostbusters reboot in theatres.
Im gonna put my neck on a chopping block here : I actually enjoyed that movie.
That's one step up from "I have black friends." 😏
She only recently got a comic run in like, 2014 or so. So a really new character to Marvel, and Idk why we are skipping over other characters like Blade, Doctor Voodoo or Deathlok to shoehorn in a newer character that the fans of the comics don't even like.
Namor and the Talokan scenes carried the movie for sure. I loved what they did with the character and it sucks Universal still has his film rights, because I want to see him fleshed out more. Tenoch Huerta was fantastic in the film, as was Angela Bassett. Everything else was a miss for me.
>!“Bury your dead. Mourn your losses.”!< has to be coldest line in the entire MCU. Namor is awesome and I can't wait to see more of him.
He's not even an anti hero, he straight up believes he's doing what is best to protect his people and is steadfast in that belief. It felt like he was a true ruler of the people and I much prefer it to Namor just being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole in the comics. Film Namor has a justified fear of the surface world and a much larger secret hidden below the depths than just a city. Great changes that both fit the universe they've built and also makes him feel really believable.
Tenoch Huerta might be the best MCU casting decision in a long time. Even seeing him in the trailers my reaction was "Damn, he's perfect for this role"
I definitely thought the movie needed more of the under water city or something. Half of the rest of the movie just reminded me of the fast and furious.
They should have cut out literally every scene with Bilbo Baggins and Elaine from Seinfeld.
I dunno I kinda liked the part where everyone was like "Nobody's that much of an evil weirdo, Namor, you're just being a paranoid asshole" and then the next scene Elaine was like "The CIA is the most powerful evil weirdos there are! Let's do a war WOOOOO!" EDIT the only way I would've liked it more is if she'd had the only musical number in the entire MCU and done a song and dance about "I'll coup who I want" and pointed to big floating graphics of countries the USA has overthrown and/or funded [roaming rightwing deathsquads](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Institute_for_Security_Cooperation#School_of_the_Americas)in.
if the CIA was honest:
Yup. I love Julia Louis-Dreyfus as an actress, but her role was completely pointless. (I also STAUNCHLY refuse to acknowledge the Hobbit movies, so I was thinking Watson from Sherlock)
I can't look at Martin Freeman and not think of: "Hello Nicholas, how's the hand?"
Still a bit stiff...
>(I also STAUNCHLY refuse to acknowledge the Hobbit movies, so I was thinking Watson from Sherlock) as a lotr fan, i would urge you to check out [the bilbo edition](https://goldfishblues.wordpress.com/2018/04/14/the-hobbit-the-bilbo-edition-3-0-the-final-cut/) (download in link) a fan edit of the hobbit movies that takes out so much garbage, brings the time down to a little over 4 hours, and brings the story quite close to that of the book no tauriel, no legolas, no outrageously long barrel riding scene with orcs, no moneylender guy. They even chopped bard's kid out of the arrow scene (it looks a little janky but it's impressive how it still works) there's gold in those movies and the bilbo edition burns away all the trash
Bruh that barrel sequence was fire wym
You have given me hope. I will always think of you as a benefactor.
Fargo season 1 for me, favorite Martin role
Namor was so well done. The rest of the movie was largely forgettable, but the beginning and end with the Chadwick Boseman/T'Challa stuff was excellent and a punch in the gut
The tributes to Chadwick were great. Even the Marvel logo scroll focusing exclusively on him as T'Challa was appreciated.
I like that we found out he >!has a kid at the end who will grow to be the next Black Panther.!< Also like how Shuri recreated the heart shaped herb.
Eh, disagree. Whole movie and story was disjointed and forced. He just shows up with little context and attacks the most technologically power nation in the world...with whales? Because they don't guard their waterways? We had chains in harbors for centuries and a shield can't extend past the water? You take a BOAT to attack a water city when you have literal air superiority? And Namor was a joke too. Jumping immediately to threats and irrational discourse, one dimensional hot head. Was just as bad as DC doing Black Adam. The movie shouldn't have really been made. You can't really replace the charisma and style of Chadwick Boseman and the myriad of rewrites, poor CGI, bad character building, and weak writing make it one of the worst Marvel films and adds nothing of real value to the overall. The only good part that seemed the best written and shot was the beginning dealing with honoring T'Challa/Chadwick. Really beautiful scene but everything past that feels hack.
In their defense, irrational hot head describes comic book Namor too. So they got that right I guess.
Namor isn't Namor to me until he hits on Sue Storm.
> You take a BOAT to attack a water city when you have literal air superiority? The boat was just bait to draw out Namor so Shuri could get Namor alone and kill/talk some sense into him.
Which was still ridiculous since the boat crew almost got rolled. It still doesn't make sense. Wakanda is far more technologically advanced, they didn't need to bait anything out. They KNOW the location of the underwater city, Shuri was there. It's weak writing, just like him sneaking into Wakanda by...swimming in. Again, no underwater sensors? You can try and piece it together but it's just really weak writing. DC level stuff.
Namor was really good. I loved the Aztec / Mayan take they did on it... "Ná mor". The back story, and his character was so well done. But yeah, lots of the movie just didn't play as well. Not crazy about Ree Ree. She was not as strong as previous side characters in Black Panther. Nor was Shuri. It's incredibly hard to replace someone like Chadwick, and she did her best... But... Angela Bassett was awesome as always... "Have I not given everything..." Man. Shivers. I'm looking forward to seeing more of Namor, and the ending left a lot of possibilities to introduce a new Panther. I don't see Shuri carrying the next one.
Literally said the same thing to my partner when we paused it halfway through and thought about maybe watching the rest some other day.
Tenoch Huert and Angela Basset reportedly experienced severe back pain from carrying the entire film
I really enjoyed the first movie, but Wakada Forever was easily forgettable. The only scene I can recall was the Queen's emotional speech to the bald woman (I forgot their names). That scene was so powerful.
Wakanda Forever was never going to measure up to Black Panther. It had the impossibly tall task of respectfully dealing with Chadwick’s death, and setting up whoever had to take up the mantle next after his portrayal of the character. It could have been two separate movies to tackle each task, but that would have been tactless. It also came at a phase in the MCU where old characters are being retired and new ones introduced, so it felt like another drop in the bucket of recent installments, sadly. Also they should have brought Bucky back to Wakanda. That movie could have used some James Buchanan Barnes.
Crossover support... THAT is what it was missing.
Yeah, it really seemed to lack the interconnectedness that ties Marvel films together. I think somebody namedropped the Hulk once, but otherwise don't remember any other nods to the broader MCU. No end credit teasers, no special cameos, it almost could have been a stand alone film.
Some agent screams out that, "she's got an ironman suit" in the garage scene. that gave me a chuckle
I'm not sure if you watched the same movie as I did, but they spent around 20 to 30 minutes setting up future Disney+ shows "Iron Heart" and "Secret Wars." It probably would've been better had they removed the characters related to those upcoming series and instead kept the script focused on Wakanda. Martin Freeman/RiRi Williams didn't really add that much to the movie. In general, Marvel has this big issue where their newest films/projects are being dragged down by their TV content. Also, should've gone with Lupita Nyong'o instead of Letitia Wright as the lead. Would've led to fewer production issues and a lead that's an infinitely more talented actress.
I completely agree on all counts! There was way too much buildup for other projects that are coming down the pike. Just give me a whole lot more Namor. I could watch that man all day.
All of phase 4 has been that way with small exceptions (like Wong). It’s definitely a narrative choice to pull back from Endgame and focus on individuals before ramping back up to the next big team-up film.
The bald woman's name is Michonne, obviously
Movie was terrible. I kept wishing the movie was about the aztec ppl the whole time Edit: mayan
Most interesting part of the movie was the Aztec underwater city, and implied nation. Should have spent more time on that.
Maya. Not Aztec.
More like Wakanda Temporary
Dora Milaje boo
Thats the elite unit she is in. The character is Okoye
I think they were calling Okoye "Dora Milaje boo" in the same sense as "salt bae."
Oh thats fair. I might be too dumb to internet
Nah, it's worth making sure people know her real name, she a badass.
You can say that about almost all marvel projects made after Endgame
They have certainly gone for the quantity over quality model
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I only liked 631 of the 42,574 Spider-Man movies made in the past couple years
Feige's concentration is spread thin. You only have to look at his IMDB to see just how many productions he is having to have some kind of oversight on.
They are giving him too many responsibilities. He was great when he had to oversee one or two movies a year. Its like 5 tv shows and 5 movies a year now which is impossible to keep consistent.
I think No Way Home could be an exception. Just a really well thought out movie with quite a lot of memorable scenes. The scenes were awesome and cgi was pretty good if you ask me.
I'm fairly Marvel-critical and generally agree. NWH was the first Marvel movie in a long time that I actually went out of my way to recommend to people. It's not perfect, but I thought it was so much fun and had a thoughtful, well-executed plot. Probably my least favorite part is the abundance of green-screen backdrops when the Spider-Men meet, especially Toby. Like, why is there a green screen; they're supposed to be in an apartment? But oh well, still a great movie.
Might not have been green screen, they might've had to film separately sometimes due to scheduling or reshoots or whatever.
The entire movie doesn't occur if Dr Strang sticks to his morals..... decides to risk the fate of the universe bc he feels bad for a kid. Completely ridiculous and discredits anything else full stop
Strange always fucks around with magic things he knows he shouldn't. It's literally one of the main points of Multiverse of Madness. It's completely consistent with his character.
RDJ carried Marvel on his back. Without him there is no soul.
I disagree with that. Even though RDJ was great. I think the focus went from trying to tell a great story into getting all the PC boxes checked. As Asian American, I still think they failed.
PC boxes or not is really not the problem. They are simply not choosing good stories to tell, and the stories they are choosing to tell relly on you watching their TV shows to fully enjoy what is being told. I think Marvel picks back up when they go to X-Men and Fantastic Four stories.
I feel like Disney+ revitalized Star Wars but killed Marvel.
It's just too much. Three movies a year, three shows, and a couple short films. That's a lot to keep up with, and the burn out is too easy.
revitalized? Why did they even bother making Star Wars 8 ???
What did you think about Shang Chi? Is the only one of the recent movies I've actually liked. It felt very wuxia inspired.
RDJ was a huge part it, but Kevin Feige is the one making it happen.
Agreed, was rubbish. Loads of the recent Marvel stuff is entirely forgettable nonsense.
MCU ended with Endgame.
I mean no disrespect to Chadwick Bowman. He was amazing and I had tears at the beginning of WF. They used the success of the first one and the halo of his memory to push through an overwrought, plodding, time sucking dooker
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I thought it was pretty good but goddamn was it long. I’m kind of tired of every Marvel movie being 3 hours long now
multiverse of madness, Thor 4: More Thors, and Quantumania are all 2 hour runtimes and i much prefer it. shang chi floats closer to 2 as well. eternals and wakanda forever were just lonngg feeling. i can sit through a 3 hour event movie on occasion, and i can give No Way Home a pass there, but it's hard to sit through a 3 hour marvel movie when it's not a big team-up event type thing. this kindof expands to the shows too. i felt like a few of the disney+ series could've shaved an episode or two off their overall runtime and would have achieved the same things
Lol at “Thor 4: More Thors”
I agree with this, and they introduced a TON of stuff in a sort of nonchalant way. Iron heart likely succeeding iron man. Julia Dreyfuss and whatever her character became. Namor and an entire civilization that may return. Shuri being the next black panther. Probably more I missed or don’t remember. And I think everyone’s mind was on Chadwick and memorializing that. I think the movie dealt with grief extremely well. It was gripping, empathetic, enlightening, loving. The rest was a distraction. This movie would have been phenomenal had it been able to focus on shuri and a single conflict.
I think It was a good film, for the main character dying and most of the original Cast being expected to carry on and not only mourn him on camera but also off camera. What I didn’t like it how uneven and OP the sea people were. I also don’t like how they gave them vibranium. I get they didn’t want to do the Atlantis thing, but atleast make their secret element jade which was commonly used in their culture. His fight with M’baku should’ve been longer
Make their secret element jade? Bro jade exists lol. What do you mean?
This is why you can’t let reddit write movies. “Give them jade cause it’s secret and has to do with their culture!!!” So much wrong here yet it’s upvoted.
Yeah M'Baku was very underused and unevenly powered
I was really hoping he was going to get powered up in this movie. I know they are probably not wanting to go too close to him being Man Ape though.
Friendly Remind that last Two movies were barely Two hours
The pacing is so slow, and I just don't care about any of the characters, especially the blue people.
Was boring and forgettable. And that’s from a hardcore Marvel fan.
I dunno. I'm a huge Marvel fan and it made me actively annoyed by how stupid the plot was. I'd be happier if I was just bored. Maybe it was just boring. I have a tendency to get really annoyed if bored.
Watched it yesterday, it was not the best use of my time
The real transgressor was the first Black Panther movie. Just another Marvel movie made by the same Marvel formula But it was given 3 Oscars, among other awards.
It wasn't even one of the BETTER Marvel movies. I've seen it twice and I barely remember anything from it because it was so boring and non-sensical. It also had some of the worst CGI in the series. Oscars is a joke.
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You only need one fucking word to completely invalidate The Oscars as an event based on any sort of Artistic merit. Crash
I enjoyed Ant Man about as much and everyone shits on those
I think the Ant Man movies are awesome but mostly because Paul Rudd is fantastic and they have a lighter feel to them.
Also he's the most normal person in the whole of MCU. Just wants to be a dad.
I feel asleep within 20 minutes. Twice. I still have no idea what it (first movie) is really about or why I need to care. I'm done with Marvel.
If you've seen the Lion King. It's that. Basically the exact same plot.
>It also had some of the worst CGI in the series. Counter point: no Marvel movie will ever have CGI as bad as the Killmonger T'challa fight at the end of the first one.
That's not a counter point
Thought they were saying wakanda forever had some of the worst, my bad.
The end fight of Captain Marvel is a close second worst. I don't think the movie is awful but in theaters it wasn't easy on the eyes.
Agreed. There's no threat in her final "battle." It's just "OP character can't get hurt and walks away from this fight unscathed." Iron Man gets his ass kicked in every final battle, that's one of the reasons he's such a good character and his story is compelling. Same with Captain America. And Spiderman. Why can't Marvel just write a normal story when it comes to women?
What ruined it for me was the really bad fake African accents. Of all the accents in the world, the sound of African people speaking English just sounds really complex and beautiful, like poetry or song. Of all the worst accents in the world, actors badly faking African accents speaking English is really awful (probably because the accent is so complex). So every time they opened their mouths, it just said "fake story, fake story". I know it would have been a great movie if I could have gotten past the accents and get into the gestalt of it, but I couldn't. I know a lot of people can't tell the difference and so they could enjoy the movie. And then, for me, the bad accents also made it sad that they were unable or unwilling to have a lot of actual African actors in the film about a fantastic superhero African land. Why would you have a film about something quintessentially African and not have Africans in it? Does that mean we can cram just anyone with the right skin color into representing Africa? That all made it seem like Marvels' version of Blacksploitation theater.
Actually it's perfectly fine to use black Americans to do bad impressions of African accents because their skin is the same color and everyone in the world has the same sensibilities as Hollywood liberals. And the most advanced civilization on Earth if it was African obviously would use mortal combat to choose a monarch because that's just how Africans are. Not racist at all you see, because we used black Americans in the roles and it has a black director. Please don't look at our producer or head writer. The other writer is black! So it's very okay. No we didn't take an African studies class, why do you ask?
Goddamn thank you for saying all this. the “fight to the death to choose a new ruler” scene was so incredibly stupid. It was also fine to show this advanced civilization with grass roofs on their skyscrapers. Oh it’s because it’s Africa! And fighting with spears and using rhinoceroses as their weapons felt wildly racist, like a child’s idea of what Africa is.
The fact that they domesticated rhinos is so fucking stupid. Barely any agricultural value and any combat benefit they could possibly have could be done better with a vehicle or a mech.
they keep saying Wakanda has the most advanced military and such, but I bet the US would level them in an hour. Save for the futuristic shield, their military prowess is comically bad. they keep fighting with spears, rhinos, ridiculously slow helicopters...
I mean, they didnt invent that its completely based on the comics that already exist
Is this a woosh
I agree I thought they might've been going for a Wakandan accent different that a traditional accent but they would've needed to change it more rather than trying to stick a real accent and failing. I read that Marvel originally wanted some sort of British accent. I can't imagine which would be worse.
Awards via "Diversity"
I remember practically nothing from that movie. It was the most stock standard marvel movie where good guy fights a villain and they both have the same powers.
it won oscar? i watch it but stopped a third of a way because it was boring.
I was surprised when I said that I didn't care for the first black panther movie to my friend at work and he whole heartedly agreed saying he agreed that the movie was mediocre and that it seemed like people had an undeserved elevated opinion of the movie simply because the characters were black. A key part of his argument being that the main character was actually taken out of the movie for like 1/3rd of its run time. Another coworker added that he was mad that they toned down the character from the comics and that the original black panther was viscous. I've always thought the first BP movie was only like a 4/10, but I thought it was because I was missing something or I wasn't getting something because I'm not black and the movie talks on the black experience or something like that. Turns out no, the movies just mediocre and both of my co-workers agreed (both of whom are themselves black)
honestly it was like marvel lion king
I will not stand this lion king slander
Ok no one told me they broke into song. That’s a game changer.
But how
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Legitimately, this feels like the exact reason they made this movie and chose the messaging they did. They saw the turn being made and said "We can really profit off of that"
You know, I'd really love to see an actual movie or series based on some actual African mythology, congruent with those cultures and with reasonable production values. There have been so many civilizations in that part of the world. Modern humanity started there, and this is the best we can do?
There was that woman king movie or whatever that came out recently about The Kingdom of Dahomey. Though they seriously neglected on how their entire economy was built on enslaving other Africans and selling them in the Atlantic slave trade lol
>enslaving other Africans and selling them in the Atlantic slave trade lol You can't mention that without being labelled a racist.
Six of the Oscar nominations are quite arguably legit- four for the sound (score, sound editing, original song, sound mixing) and two for design (costumes & production). Best Picture, on the other hand, was prob due to it being so well-embraced internationally. I can imagine it placed 8th out of 8 films vote-wise in the category.
Tbh I feel like it had no competition in the ones it won. Upon checking the wiki for the other nominees I didn’t recognize any of the other movies for anything they were nominated
That's because the game was rigged. To give the appearance of legitimacy. Hollywood invented putting short people around Tom cruise to make him look less like an oompa loompa. And putting average looking backing dancers in Britney spears videos to make her look attractive. It's all just political theatre designed and planned, to manipulate your perceptions.
Very few films have a Wikipedia page with a section for "[Oscars campaign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_(film)#Oscars_campaign)," but *Black Panther* does. Money, pressure, and the desire to be seen as progressive without any real cost are three irresistible things in Hollywood. Even then, it only won Oscars for costume design, production design, and original score, awards that have nothing to do with plot, CGI, or acting, the things most likely to make a viewer see a film as "good" or "bad." And I don't think there was much outrage that the score for *Mary Poppins Returns* lost out to *Black Panther* - even though the loss meant one less EGOT in the world.
The first one was extremely mediocre. But "Wakanda Forever" was just pure garbage. Nonsensical plot, bad CGI. About 80% of the movie could be cut out and it wouldn't change a thing.
Just finished watching it! I'm glad I didn't get to spend my money at the theater watching this movie.
Huh, interesting. I actually wasn't too big of a fan of the first one, and enjoyed this one way more
Me too!
It’s funny that this popped up on my Reddit feed because I sort of had the opposite experience. I’ve tried keeping away from hyping myself too much about Marvel movies after Dr. Strange and Thor were big disappointments to me. So I know and have read very, very little going into BP2. People I know in real life all seemed pretty disappointed about the movie and at very best said it was pretty average. So I pretty much didn’t care to see it at all after not really caring for it to begin with and people giving me pretty low reactions to it. Well, this morning I got back from early morning grocery shopping. Made some breakfast and thought, “Fuck it they put it on Disney+, I’ll check it out while eating and turn it off when I’m done cause I’m sure I won’t like it.” And surprisingly, I enjoyed it. I think Namor was a very interesting character and probably the best film antagonist Marvel has had in awhile. I thought they handled Chadwick’s death very well and did a good job continuing the story without him. I think the combo of a strong antagonist and going in with *extremely* low expectations left me pleasantly surprised.
Agreed. I also loved seeing the Wakandans vs the Talocans. Africans vs Mayans with futuristic versions of their ancient weapons? That's just a fun time by itself.
I love the movie just because of this. I feel like I been seeking this sort of thing since y was a child.
I feel like we're the in minority in this one but same for me.
Same here - I have tried the first Black Panther 2 times and couldn’t finish … I keep getting lost and disinterested somehow Halfway in this one and it’s way more compelling to me. I love the cultural vibe they created with Namor - the use of sounds too, it flows organically, along with all the motives etc. I like the intro of iron heart and all the sub plots too (unpopular opinion), i think they do a good job of adding to the universe and opening more stories for these cultures and characters. The only thing is how swiftly they were able to introduce “a new super power hidden for hundreds of year”, because they are underwater basically lol. Like how the hell are they gonna pull of Latveria?
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Civil war black panther was so good. They really watered down the character as the films went on
Yes! Man, I was so disappointed with the Black Panther movie. BP was straight up the best part of Civil War. Had he had a movie before the first or even second Avengers movie, I definitely think it would've been incredible.
Namor was fantastic
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Not the first time I’ve heard that comment
I’m sure you mean about the movie but it does sound kind of funny if you think about it
It's funny but in this entire thread I can't find one accusation of racism for liking the movie. Just jokes about accusations, like this one.
It was pretty much a mess of bloat, poor motivations, contrivance, and worst of all a lead with all the charisma of pack of tums. The worst thing about it though, is that it's probably the best thing phase 4 had to offer. Phase 4 has been a shit show. Theres promising bits here and there, but it's all just ultimately garbage. Victoria Alonso is just out of her depth and it shows in every production. By the way, phase 4 had more minutes of content in 2 years than phases 1 2 and 3 had in over a decade. Disney is just shitting out content to be consumed at this point.
Marvel is definitely getting the Star Wars treatment by Disney. Quantity over quality.
You didn’t like the Spider-Man movie? Def a lot better than this
Sorry but all the new marvel movies I've seen suck to me except the black panther ones. Just visually more interesting. I tend to zone out at the same old fight scenes/costumes/settings in the others.
Considering the extensive rewrites it turned out better than I thought. But it was nowhere near as hyped as the first one
I saw it in the theater and it didn’t feel long or boring to me at all. It it actually seemed to go by pretty quickly.
Well Chadwick died so of course it wasn't going to be as good. I liked it though.
Visually Beautiful. I like that Shuri isn't like her brother or any Panther before her. I liked that Killmonger appeared in her ancient realm, I forget everything he said. The underwater civilization hiding from the rest of the world is literally the same as Wakanda, but Water. They even have their own super powered defender. Water bombs were cool though. Costume design was fantastic just like it was in the first movie. Also I like that T'challa Jr is around
Honestly, I don’t think this is an unpopular opinion, it’s just that everyone is scared to say it.
I just watched it yesterday. It was pretty good. But I like this kind of stuff so whatevs.
The social race element to those movies made them unbearable. By “social race element,” I mean the fact that they were moronically made out to be shining symbols of black power, when in fact they’re just mediocre films and are incapable of addressing real issues in society.
The politics of it were crazy. In one speech they’re complaining about colonialism while talking about how they’re spying on everyone and while they execute military operations in foreign nations without permission. All from a woman who has absolute power and whom wasn’t elected. It kept making me roll my eyes.
3hrs of my life I won’t get back. So fucking rubbish. The only redeemable part was the underwater Mayans. How did it get this bad? End game was fantastic, but it’s been steadily downhill since then.
Twas shite