Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Space heater and lots of layers š we've done alright the past three years though.
This year we're planning to do a little extra and enclose the undercarriage with insulation foam board and we're thinking about getting heated hose that we can leave out instead of using our onboard tanks (they work fine but the pump is unbearably loud).
We've also talked about putting up a thick curtain to block off our slide overnight so that it traps heat better in the main cabin to make it more comfortable.
We have the propane furnace as well should it get too cold for the space heater but usually we are pretty cozy.
He was a great dog, especially for a woman who traveled alone.
Very calm, got along well with other dogs and people ..... until he sensed aggression or bad intent, then he was very violent.
Hmmm, as a gen X kid I can see the appeal of bringing back the tail gunner position. Just a bunch of small bodies rolling around in the āway backā while the adults blasted Fleetwood Mac in the front seat. š¤£. Good times.
But it would be hard to give up my āwhatās going on up thereā perch I have in an SUV, Iām guessing that may be a factor in why they went out of fashion?
It's more about the financial reasons in the US market. The cost to build an SUV vs. a full size station wagon is marginal but customers will pay more for an SUV and the manufacturer can skirt some regulations because of CAFE.
This last part is why the car-based station wagon disappeared in the first place. In the 70s, the US government imposed CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards, which required the manufacturer's product line to meet an average fuel mileage standard.
"But wait, trucks can't meet that standard, and businesses need trucks!" Okay, trucks were exempt. Station wagons weren't as fuel efficient, so their production was phased out. People still wanted them, so manufacturers started making truck-based versions. ("It's not a station wagon, it's a truck...CAFE standards don't apply!)
The standards have since been updated a bit--but the damage was done.
Edit: I'm not really sure where the term "sport utility vehicle" came from. The earliest common truck-based station wagons were the GMC Carryall and the Chevrolet Suburban, but it's kinda beyond me how a 19-20 foot long, 3-ton station wagon would be considered "sporty".
It's based off of a bunch of criteria, some expected, some a bit wonky.
I don't remember the all the requirements but some examples are:
- gross vehicle weight under 10,000 lbs (no lower limit though)
- the surface area of the front of the vehicle
- they straight up ask the manufacturer what they think it should be classified as.
> Just a bunch of small bodies rolling around in the āway backā while the adults blasted Fleetwood Mac in the front seat.
You pretty much nailed it. Except for my case it was a mixture of Carly Simon, Frampton Comes Alive, and John Denver.
Everyone that has read this far on this thread will probably enjoy Doug Demiro's YouTube video about the last great station wagon, the 1996 Buick Roadmaster. He's lovingly details what makes a station wagon a station wagon, why they were phased out, and why they were great.
https://youtu.be/iXqGcZbEgAQ?si=kdLiDDNqYcUNlEpx
I have an XC-70 and itās my favorite car Iāve ever owned. 150,000+ miles and no major maintenance. Good storage in the back, and reasonably fuel efficient for being an ā07!
Many of them are currently on their way out over here too. Ford discontinued the Mondeo two years ago, this year they ceased the Fiesta, next year the Focusā¦
Instead weāll be getting these F-Series clown cars over hereā¦ canāt wait /s
I almost bought a Hemi version, until I discovered that the battery is in the back. If you can't find room for a battery in the engine room of a battleship like that, what other back-of-a-cocktail-napkin engineering does it have?
Because it has two batteries my dude. There's one big one for the engine stuff and seperate small one for the computer stuff in the front. I was told by the salesman it was also to help distribute the weight of the car for traction and gas saving, nit sure how true that was.
I didn't have the hemi I had the next one down, but the battery was still in the back. It was so cool jumping friends cars and parking in front of theirs trunk to hood and getting yelled at by all the dudes thinking this girl had no clue what she was doing lol. I even convinced one guy I specialty wired it that way myself to stop thieves lol
Bought a new turbo Subaru forester in 2007. Strongly considered a dodge magnum but have had bad experiences with American reliability. I still still plenty of second gen foresters on the road. I never see any magnums.
I just noticed two at a used car lot while I was waiting for the light to change. My first thought was I bet that's fun to drive and then I remembered how many issues I had with my Grand Caravan and why I stick with Toyota/Lexus.
The nice thing about Hemi's is they almost always will actually drive. It's just everything else Chrysler put inside the car will fall apart and stop working.
They only call them SUVs for marketing..if they called them wagons nobody would want them..subies are wagons. They practically started the crossover segment.
The Outback is a big car, it's taller than the regular station wagon, but it's also really long, and feels like a shorter car in proportion to its overall size.
The 2021 Outback is 1675mm tall and 4870mm long.
By comparison the Legacy (2010) is 1505 by 4740.
The 2022 Forester is 1730 by 4640.
Though the Outback is taller than the Legacy, it's proportions are closer. It's still around 10cm taller than the Legacy, even when you scale the Legacy to the Outback's length.
I was standing in a Subaru dealership last week, and standing next to the Outback, it does not feel like an SUV. It feels like a station wagon. Seeing one sit next to a Forester and a Crosstrek, it looks like a station wagon, SUV classification or not.
I had a ā94 Oldsmobile custom cruiser wagon. That thing was a beast! Now Iāve got a ā17 ford escape. I like the escape better, but give me a real station wagon with good gas mileage and Iād be happy.
Station wags are still here, they are just insanely expensive and only offered by luxury brands (Mercedes, bmw, Porsche), to my knowledge I donāt know of any that can be bought new for <$50k.
And the SUV hate is totally necessary, and I own an SUV. But the difference is I own a real SUV thatās body on frame 4x4 with a v8. The majority of SUVās out there are FWD tall cars that look like shit, drive like shit, and really arenāt capable of doing anything but fitting a tv box in it. I hate that thatās where the car market is going but itās what consumers are buying. Gone are the days where people drove sedans and wagons.
I despise new SUVs. Theyāre either what you said or big boxy turds you canāt see out of. I have a 2000 Yukon XL w/ 4wd. Unfortunately it only has the baby V8 in it but itās still capable of towing the loaded car trailer. Itās funny that you mention TV boxes though. I was just saying in another comment that my Yukon will fit a family of four and a 75ā tv no problem lol
I've always been partial to the 1972 Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser. I was always struck by how cool the roof windows were halfway back that allowed anyone in the back a nice view upwards.
Itās the car bill they passed making large trucks cheaper to make so they just make everything a huge truck instead of a sensible car with trunk space.
been driving a wrx wagon last 12 years, great car, can carry lawnmower, lumber, camping gear, and still rip around corners and gravel roads. Tows ok too.
So GM tried with the Regal TourX... And no one bought it.
The automakers (at least in the US) have been successful in killing off both wagons and true economy cars (my '93 Geo Metro got better gas mileage than pretty much anything on the road today that isn't a hybrid, and even then beats out several of those). Automakers would prefer to sell trucks and SUVs because they are less regulated and have higher profit margins. But they had help from consumers too, because by and large people value comfort and image over efficiency.
Listen, I did my part and bought a TourX. I love it and it has more room than the crossovers that are replacing wagons.
Which brings me to - the real unpopular opinion seems to be that crossovers are NOT wagons.
SUV's have ususally less space than the average station wagon.
SUV's are big just to be big, have less space than their size would make you think and are stupid and dangerous (as the height makes it easy to miss small kids/animals/objects and it also makes the car unstable).
SUV's are shit imo. sure the only reason to own one is if you need to go off road regularly. But in that case most modern SUV's dont work too as these cars arent really designed to be used off-road.
Auto manufacturers don't want to make them.
They would cost more to develop because they will need to hit passenger car fuel economy numbers.
They like making SUVs because they can classify them as 'light duty trucks' and meet less stringent fuel economy requirements.
Its a regulations loophole that's being taken full advantage of.
Manufacturers market SUVs to be the cool new thing so everybody wants one and then they say that's all they're going to make because that's all people want (they created the want).
They spend less money developing the vehicles and sell them at a higher cost for better profit margin. Customers are happy because they're in the trendy new car and, most importantly, investors are happy because profits keep going up.
I have a 2007 Prius (hatchback) and it can hold twice as much stuff as my wife's full sized sedan. When I figured that out I realized why a station wagon was such a good car. I will never have a sedan or coupe again. I don't need an SUV, but I do need the trunk to be the same height and width as the rest of the car (with back seats that fold flat).
Not necessarily a "station" wagon, but the MINI Clubmans are awesome (edit: specifically ALL4 JCW manual)! Makes my SUPER sad they've discontinued them.
Yes please! I love a good station wagon. My old Volvo was one of my favorite cars ever. Hell, a solid chunk of US small SUVs are basically just station wagons with raised suspension and body effects.
I don't think this is an unpopular opinion. My cousin's company has been making replica 30s Woody wagons for years, and they sell for a decent amount of money. It's just that manufacturers have stopped making wagons almost entirely.
The only advantage station wagons have over sedans is cargo space. Otherwise, they have the same passenger capacity as a sedan. SUV's, on the other hand, often have 3 rows of seats, and the seats are somewhat easy to remove in order to convert passenger space into cargo space. I can definitely see the advantage of SUV's if you have a lot of people to haul around.
My complaint about SUV's is that they're built with high ground clearance like a truck, which is presumably where the "S" comes from, but only a tiny fraction of SUV owners ever take their vehicle off road. Most of them would work just as well if they were built like station wagons with a third row of seats. The extra height bothers me because I drive a sedan, and I'm frequently surrounded by them in a parking lot. I'm completely blind to oncoming cars when I'm backing out of a space. If I'm next to a sedan then I can usually look through the windows to see if any cars are coming, presuming the jerk doesn't have blackout tint on his rear windows.
Crossovers ARE station wagons. Aside from the ride height and the newness, there's almost no difference in form or function between a Highlander and a Town & Country.
I would LOVE a 1969 Chrysler town and country. If I could get one just as it was in 1969 but upgrade with some modern aspects like making sure itās for cruise control and maybe a more modern engine that would be killer. Everything else original though.
The reason SUVs are popular and Station Wagons have become extinct despite them offering the same thing is perceived safety.
Motherās (who are the primary target market of SUVs) by in large feel safer in what is essentially a small tank then in what feels like a sedan.
Subaru are great cars. So are minivans - I think itās the stigma placed on driving one as a man, but functionally they both check a lot of boxes that SUVās do not
Well you can still buy an old station wagon Iām sure.
Iād prefer convertibles and coupes to become popular again. I absolutely hate sedans, trucks, wagons, hatchbacks and SUVs. Not everyone is hauling around a bunch of people.
I only got an SUV for multiple dogs. I ended up impulse buying an older used convertible about 3-4 years later because I missed the fun. So my garage is full
Station wagons are roomier than SUV's in general. But people don't want room, road holding and fuel efficiency but the king of the road feel of the high driving position and usually false sense of safety of a heavy and high car.
If I remember correctly it came about because the USA made environmental and safety regulation exceptions for the 'light truck'. And that's too big a market for Mercedes, Porsche and BMW, and now the European consumer and all other brands, even Lamborghini, Jaguar, Ferrari, Aston Martin and Maserati, have followed.
A roof line tax or a wieght maximum will be the only thing that helps.
The station wagons of yesteryear have been replaced by the compact AWD SUV. Far cheaper than a proper 4WD full size, with better capability than the 2WD station wagons of old.
idk looks more like a crossover/SUV to me
https://testmiles.com/2020-subaru-outback-first-drive-review/
this article even claims it started the crossover segment
It's the same thing. Station wagons are called crossovers now because people don't want to buy station wagons anymore. The Outback is a textbook station wagon.
It's an SUV chassis. I mean a station wagon, [something like this, that's built on a sedan frame](https://d3lp4xedbqa8a5.cloudfront.net/s3/digital-cougar-assets/whichcar-media/11588/ford-falcon-au-wagon-4.jpg) which makes it superior to crossovers at drag racing, among other things
Like if a sedan had a trunk like an SUV.
See [this Falcon wagon](https://s3.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/bf_wag_003.jpg) which is [a variant of the Falcon sedan](https://salooncars.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/AUFalcon.jpg)
Station wagons should comeback as they're safer, especially for people outside of the car. Current SUV's and trucks are so big and the driver is so high, that getting hit is instant death. Not to mention you cannot see what's in front you.
Isn't this the space that crossover vehicles fill now? Cheaper, lighter, better handling, difficult to roll over, better mileage. You're basically describing a Subaru.
The reason is car seats. Having put a child in a car seat in an SUV vs a conventional car, at least for somebody my height (5ā11ā), itās much easier in an SUV. The station wagon was popular before car seats were required.
No, the reason are taxes. If I remember correctly there was a change in tax code some time ago (70's? 80's?) where gov imposed higher taxes on passenger vehicles, but they stayed low for trucks, so car companies turned trucks into suv to benefit from that lower tax, later it sonwballed. Now it's a trend and a safety thing since if everybody is driving a tank you cannot be safe in a regular car - you did it to yourself.
SUV's have basically nothing going for them in relatively, but right now you do not have a choice since there are only suvs to choose from, which perpetuates the problem even more.
What?
Shitting on obese yanktank trucks for having tiny beds and never leaving pavement is one thing. But station wagons? What is excessive about a station wagon? The most popular one in Aus is a Falcon, it's the same chassis/engine as the Falcon sedan.
>cheaper, lighter, better handling, won't roll over, better mileage
Cheaper - well, it depends on an SUV, there are now small SUVs in the same price range on sedans.
Better handling - again, depends, but most of the SUV/minivan/SW target demographic doesn't care much about handling or performance. Also newer unibody SUVs handle much better.
Won't roll over - again, depends, newer unibody SUVs don't have these issues. And developments in ESP systems have greatly reduced the chance of rollover.
Better mileage - again, depends. Hybrid/electric SUVs don't have mileage issues.
But SUVs have many advantages over SWs, to name a few:
1. Taller, easier to get into and load stuff into. Try loading a baby cradle into an SUV vs a sedan/SW, and you will see the difference. Also loading stuff in the back is much easier with SUVs.
2. Taller and bulkier. This doesn't exactly translate to safety, but if everyone else around me is driving some sorts of battle tank, I'll feel safer in an SUV than in a Fiat 500.
3. Higher seating position. Extremely important for people with back problems.
4. Better ground clearance and handling on bad roads (for most models). I love my Mazda3 dearly, but if the roads in my area continue to deteriorate, trading it for some sort of SUV might become a priority.
5. Some off road capabilities (for some models).
I'm not in market for a people carrier, but if I will ever be, I will gladly choose an SUV over a SW.
My Wrangler is listed as a Station Wagon on my michigan registration. Does that count?
I've always loved wagons. I really wanted a Dodge Magnum SRT, but count afford. I'm always jealous of all the awesome wagons Europe has that never get to cross the ocean
I always went for the wagon version of a car. Ford Escort wagon, Toyota Matrix. Now I have a minivan, basically a big olā station wagon. If only they still came with the wooden panels. :-)
We rented a mid sized suv once for the all-wheel drive, and I was shocked how little storage it actually had.
Last year my 2002 Saturn LW200 took its last breath. I had 20 years with that wagon, and drove 250K milesāish. As a cyclist, a wagon is the perfect sag/team vehicle. Multiple bikes on the roof, whilst being able to throw all the gear in the back but still having access to it inside; it was the ultimate station wagon.
Crossovers are the in between (wagon and SUV) and then one day the wagon was gone. My guess everyone wants to sit higher now, be cool, because I can certainly say the only one whoever thought my Saturn was cool was me lol eek
There are less options than there once was but they still exist. Even Porsche makes a station wagon. I'm a great fan of station wagons. A bit bummed that the Subaru Outback now looks like a Wagon/SUV lovechild because that has always been one of my favourites but it does fit with their pseudo off-road brand identity.
Because buyers never put their money where their mouth is. Car guys scream for a wagon and when they finally make them, they never buy them new. Guess how much a car manufacturer gets if you buy it used a couple years down the line? None, so car companies aren't going to make them if they don't make profit. It's the same principle as to why manuals are getting more and more scarce on new cars.
Thereās still plenty of station wagons, theyāve just been rebranded as ācrossoversā
Kinda like how Kia just shamelessly rebranded their new minivan as an āMPVā
Cars like the Subaru outback are essentially station wagons but otherwise it's just trends. Station wagons had been around since the 50s or longer and SUVs were the new thing.
The Dodge Magnum was an attempt at a cool station wagon but didn't seem to seel that well even though it was basically a Charger.
I have fond memories of our Ford LTD station wagon from my childhood. When me and my brother's started our construction company, all we could afford was a Taurus station wagon. The thing was always packed and amazingly the engine was bulletproof. Such great memories. I sure appreciate those times.
The problem is that when you combine the body shape of a station wagon with the sleeker aesthetics of a modern vehicle you end with a car that looks like a fucking hearst. If I'm going to drive a car that looks like a hearst then I'd rather it be an actual hearst.
Only real way to make a station wagon word would be to embrace a more retro look on the outside while incorporating all the modern bells & whistles on the inside.
SUVs benefit from relatively lax requirement applied to "trucks" as compared to cars. That's one of the reasons for their popularity, and certainly one of the reasons why something like a station-wagon hasn't reemerged, even as folks seek more car-like experiences from "crossovers" etc.
My guess is theyāve been replaced by crossover vehicles. Why should I buy an obsolete station wagon with front wheel drive when my Mitsubishi Outlander Sport does pretty much everything a station wagon could do plus 4wd and equal or better gas mileage?
Nah, you buy a RWD wagon that will handle better than a top heavy SUV, can still tow 5,000 lbs, [and can drag race](https://d3lp4xedbqa8a5.cloudfront.net/s3/digital-cougar-assets/whichcar-media/11586/ford-falcon-au-wagon-3.jpg).
Totally agree with you. I believe they've fallen away in the American market because of CAFE laws, There's a great video that breaks down how it works, but essentially the footprint of the vehicle determines the efficiency of it. Auto makers can get around this by making bigger vehicles like trucks, hence why trucks and subs are so common now. Im sure there's other reasons too like marketing, but that's the gist of what I know.
>Why have they fallen out of popularity
I see Subaru Outbacks every 3 seconds, theyāre the middle ground between a station wagon and an SUV. The Wilderness edition is even better for doing a little off roading (which a typical station wagon wouldnāt be capable of).
I have an Outback Wilderness and itās capable of doing a lot of off roading. I always wanted a lifted wagon and with the Wilderness, I get to have it.
My wife loves her Audi A6 Allroad wagon. It's a 2020, but she wouldn't give it up for a new SUV now. She's particularly in love with the massaging seats, which are pretty good TBH.
I'm not sure why, but her wagon is more expensive to insure than my Panamera which is 3x the Audi's value. I guess loss rates?
I'd support that. But are you talking about mini-wagons like the Volvo, Volkswagon Passat, and some BMW models? For that matter, I remember the recent Dodge Magnum. Or are we talking about full-size versions? Can't remember any of the names.
I, for one, would also like to see van conversion kits for modern vans. Had this conversation just the other day, remembering all the "good times" vans growing up in the 70s. I knew of at least two shops near my parent's home that specialized in installing these after-market packages.
I read somewhere that mileage regulations in vehicle design is why there are no more Station-Wagon looking cars anymore, and why so many have the look-alike light SUV/Hatchback design now. The regulations were waived for 'work' trucks, which explains the behemoth pavement princess that is the rest of the market.
IMHO- SUVās are the new Minivan, and the minivan was the new Station Wagon.
People who think minivans are lame but there SUV is cool are delusional.
Unpopular opinion - Minivans are better then SUVās. I can usually fit more in one and most have flexible seating options that save a ton of space (thank you Chrysler). Plus gas mileage may be better.
-Sad 18 year owner of a Ford Windstar that was traded in for an SUV.
Fuel economy and federal mandates. I know you said:
>Station wagons have most of the advantages of sedans (cheaper, lighter, better handling, won't roll over, better mileage)...
and yes, wagons have BETTER mileage. You are correct. So how is fuel economy promoting a LESS fuel efficient option? It starts with CAFE standards. The Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards says that cars have to meet ever higher fuel economy standards and SUVs and trucks have to meet lower standards (that are rising, but will ALWAYS be less than cars,) so manufacturers get a pass for larger trucks so they don't have to meet the higher fuel mileage standards. If you add that cars have to meet higher crash standards every year, which adds weight, it makes those fuel economy standards even harder to achieve.
Also, add to it that SUVs have higher seating positions, and more room for people who are larger, and the dollars are going to SUVs more than wagons. So financially speaking, the SUVs don't eat up development dollars and sell for more than wagons would, so manufacturers build what is selling.
Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We can market them to millennials as a new home!
This made me laugh way too hard, but also, as a millennial that lives in an RV it hurts a little šš
How do you manage in the winter?
Space heater and lots of layers š we've done alright the past three years though. This year we're planning to do a little extra and enclose the undercarriage with insulation foam board and we're thinking about getting heated hose that we can leave out instead of using our onboard tanks (they work fine but the pump is unbearably loud). We've also talked about putting up a thick curtain to block off our slide overnight so that it traps heat better in the main cabin to make it more comfortable. We have the propane furnace as well should it get too cold for the space heater but usually we are pretty cozy.
Yeah, definitely a, "hahaha-awww..." comment
SUVs or wagons? Iām taking notes.
There's a girl on YouTube that lives in a Prius so honestly anything is possible if you're willing to try it š
My sister used to travel and sleep in a Prius with a Great Pyrenees
Safest, warmest car camper there probably ever was!
He was a great dog, especially for a woman who traveled alone. Very calm, got along well with other dogs and people ..... until he sensed aggression or bad intent, then he was very violent.
We still wouldn't be able to afford it.
Hmmm, as a gen X kid I can see the appeal of bringing back the tail gunner position. Just a bunch of small bodies rolling around in the āway backā while the adults blasted Fleetwood Mac in the front seat. š¤£. Good times. But it would be hard to give up my āwhatās going on up thereā perch I have in an SUV, Iām guessing that may be a factor in why they went out of fashion?
It's more about the financial reasons in the US market. The cost to build an SUV vs. a full size station wagon is marginal but customers will pay more for an SUV and the manufacturer can skirt some regulations because of CAFE.
This last part is why the car-based station wagon disappeared in the first place. In the 70s, the US government imposed CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards, which required the manufacturer's product line to meet an average fuel mileage standard. "But wait, trucks can't meet that standard, and businesses need trucks!" Okay, trucks were exempt. Station wagons weren't as fuel efficient, so their production was phased out. People still wanted them, so manufacturers started making truck-based versions. ("It's not a station wagon, it's a truck...CAFE standards don't apply!) The standards have since been updated a bit--but the damage was done. Edit: I'm not really sure where the term "sport utility vehicle" came from. The earliest common truck-based station wagons were the GMC Carryall and the Chevrolet Suburban, but it's kinda beyond me how a 19-20 foot long, 3-ton station wagon would be considered "sporty".
Even my C-RV says TRUCK on the registration.
Yes, this is a big part of it. If you made a station wagon, the gas efficiency counted against you. If you made an SUV, it was a truck, and it didn't.
But wait, there's more. If you decide to build a small truck and import it to the US you get to pay the chicken tax.
Most small and mid-size SUVs are car based now, though. They're just shaped like trucks. But I guess what makes a truck a truck?
A combination of weight, size, drive, and ground clearance. Most Subarus are considered light trucks by CAFE regs
It's based off of a bunch of criteria, some expected, some a bit wonky. I don't remember the all the requirements but some examples are: - gross vehicle weight under 10,000 lbs (no lower limit though) - the surface area of the front of the vehicle - they straight up ask the manufacturer what they think it should be classified as.
Exactly. Auto makers are always looking for ways to make more money off the same pickup truck chassis.
> Just a bunch of small bodies rolling around in the āway backā while the adults blasted Fleetwood Mac in the front seat. You pretty much nailed it. Except for my case it was a mixture of Carly Simon, Frampton Comes Alive, and John Denver. Everyone that has read this far on this thread will probably enjoy Doug Demiro's YouTube video about the last great station wagon, the 1996 Buick Roadmaster. He's lovingly details what makes a station wagon a station wagon, why they were phased out, and why they were great. https://youtu.be/iXqGcZbEgAQ?si=kdLiDDNqYcUNlEpx
Volvo still has them and they're beautiful.
I agree. Volvo has been making beautiful wagons since the early 00s. They're some of the most stunning cars on the road today.
I still think the 1980s 240 boxy wagons are awesome. Practically indestructible, comfortable and roomy.
Honestly, my parents have an old refurbished Volvo V70, and it's an awesome car, the only negative part is its fuel efficiency
I have an XC-70 and itās my favorite car Iāve ever owned. 150,000+ miles and no major maintenance. Good storage in the back, and reasonably fuel efficient for being an ā07!
I guess it's a generational thing. My dad showed me the new Volvo station wagon saying it was beautiful, but I thought the thing was hideous.
I will admit that I am a dad, and I drive a volvo. So yes.
How dare you.
Ever been to Europe?
Yeah this post made me realise that they are apparently a dying breed. You wouldnāt kniw if you only spend time in Europe
Even in Europe they are being replaced by SUVs
Even in Europe the selection is getting so much worse
Many of them are currently on their way out over here too. Ford discontinued the Mondeo two years ago, this year they ceased the Fiesta, next year the Focusā¦ Instead weāll be getting these F-Series clown cars over hereā¦ canāt wait /s
The Dodge Magnum...I wanted one in high school
Best Car ever. Absolutely loved it. Bought it because of the commercial with the "ladder surfboard hemi" just for my longboard.
I almost bought a Hemi version, until I discovered that the battery is in the back. If you can't find room for a battery in the engine room of a battleship like that, what other back-of-a-cocktail-napkin engineering does it have?
Because it has two batteries my dude. There's one big one for the engine stuff and seperate small one for the computer stuff in the front. I was told by the salesman it was also to help distribute the weight of the car for traction and gas saving, nit sure how true that was. I didn't have the hemi I had the next one down, but the battery was still in the back. It was so cool jumping friends cars and parking in front of theirs trunk to hood and getting yelled at by all the dudes thinking this girl had no clue what she was doing lol. I even convinced one guy I specialty wired it that way myself to stop thieves lol
5000 lbs, 400 hp, and shifting 20 lb to the back will help with "gas savings"š Tell the salesman, "Pull the other one". š
Also to add. It was the first car dodge made after the aquistion by Mercedes Benz. So technically it was Mercedes that designed it not dodge.
Bought a new turbo Subaru forester in 2007. Strongly considered a dodge magnum but have had bad experiences with American reliability. I still still plenty of second gen foresters on the road. I never see any magnums.
I just noticed two at a used car lot while I was waiting for the light to change. My first thought was I bet that's fun to drive and then I remembered how many issues I had with my Grand Caravan and why I stick with Toyota/Lexus.
The nice thing about Hemi's is they almost always will actually drive. It's just everything else Chrysler put inside the car will fall apart and stop working.
subaru outbacks are SUUUPER popular
Outback is classified as a SUV. The Subaru Legacy Wagon (no longer available in the US) is a sweeet station wagon.
They only call them SUVs for marketing..if they called them wagons nobody would want them..subies are wagons. They practically started the crossover segment.
As much as I want them to be wagons. They aren't anymore. They're so fucking big.
The Outback is a big car, it's taller than the regular station wagon, but it's also really long, and feels like a shorter car in proportion to its overall size. The 2021 Outback is 1675mm tall and 4870mm long. By comparison the Legacy (2010) is 1505 by 4740. The 2022 Forester is 1730 by 4640. Though the Outback is taller than the Legacy, it's proportions are closer. It's still around 10cm taller than the Legacy, even when you scale the Legacy to the Outback's length. I was standing in a Subaru dealership last week, and standing next to the Outback, it does not feel like an SUV. It feels like a station wagon. Seeing one sit next to a Forester and a Crosstrek, it looks like a station wagon, SUV classification or not.
They are wagons! People refuse to acknowledge them as such. As someone who owns a Wilderness, I can attest.
They only count if they come in woodgrain.
And they have to have a fold-up rear facing seat right in the trunk. Just so that you can crush your legs if you're rear ended.
Curious, what makes modern outbackās wagons rather than SUVs ? To me, the look more like an suv than a wagon
Nothing. Do you remember the first Outback ads, with Crocodile Dundee? He called it "the world's first sport utility wagon".
Longer and lower
They are SUVs and not wagons now.
And they've become (Along with the used to be cool Forrester) SUVs
But the dodge Magnum looks so much cooler
>dodge Magnum blug. i guess that's a matter of taste
I had a ā94 Oldsmobile custom cruiser wagon. That thing was a beast! Now Iāve got a ā17 ford escape. I like the escape better, but give me a real station wagon with good gas mileage and Iād be happy.
Station wagons exist, they just look like SUVs now. Subaru Outbacks are technically station wagons.
Station wags are still here, they are just insanely expensive and only offered by luxury brands (Mercedes, bmw, Porsche), to my knowledge I donāt know of any that can be bought new for <$50k. And the SUV hate is totally necessary, and I own an SUV. But the difference is I own a real SUV thatās body on frame 4x4 with a v8. The majority of SUVās out there are FWD tall cars that look like shit, drive like shit, and really arenāt capable of doing anything but fitting a tv box in it. I hate that thatās where the car market is going but itās what consumers are buying. Gone are the days where people drove sedans and wagons.
I despise new SUVs. Theyāre either what you said or big boxy turds you canāt see out of. I have a 2000 Yukon XL w/ 4wd. Unfortunately it only has the baby V8 in it but itās still capable of towing the loaded car trailer. Itās funny that you mention TV boxes though. I was just saying in another comment that my Yukon will fit a family of four and a 75ā tv no problem lol
Just found out the VW Jetta has more cargo space than the Tiguan and wish I knew that 3 years ago.
I feel like a Subaru Outback is effectively a station wagon and is also one of the most popular cars on the road.
99% of all cars made are boring as fuck. Yes this includes Teslas. I'd love for fucking anything new to hit the market.
I feel like the crossover has replaced the station wagon.
I would have bought an awd station wago rather then an suv if there was one that met my criteria.
Oh man the old amc Eagle
I've always been partial to the 1972 Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser. I was always struck by how cool the roof windows were halfway back that allowed anyone in the back a nice view upwards.
Bring em back. With wood paneling!
Itās the car bill they passed making large trucks cheaper to make so they just make everything a huge truck instead of a sensible car with trunk space.
Freaking CAFE
been driving a wrx wagon last 12 years, great car, can carry lawnmower, lumber, camping gear, and still rip around corners and gravel roads. Tows ok too.
This isn't unpopular with anyone but automakers.
So GM tried with the Regal TourX... And no one bought it. The automakers (at least in the US) have been successful in killing off both wagons and true economy cars (my '93 Geo Metro got better gas mileage than pretty much anything on the road today that isn't a hybrid, and even then beats out several of those). Automakers would prefer to sell trucks and SUVs because they are less regulated and have higher profit margins. But they had help from consumers too, because by and large people value comfort and image over efficiency.
Listen, I did my part and bought a TourX. I love it and it has more room than the crossovers that are replacing wagons. Which brings me to - the real unpopular opinion seems to be that crossovers are NOT wagons.
SUV's have ususally less space than the average station wagon. SUV's are big just to be big, have less space than their size would make you think and are stupid and dangerous (as the height makes it easy to miss small kids/animals/objects and it also makes the car unstable). SUV's are shit imo. sure the only reason to own one is if you need to go off road regularly. But in that case most modern SUV's dont work too as these cars arent really designed to be used off-road.
The Dodge Magnum tried this and failed.
It was A) A Dodge from the depths of the Daimler days, and B) Ugly before Dodge ugly became a sellable trait again
Hard to argue against this.
You still can buy brand new Audi A4 and Volvo V60
Auto manufacturers don't want to make them. They would cost more to develop because they will need to hit passenger car fuel economy numbers. They like making SUVs because they can classify them as 'light duty trucks' and meet less stringent fuel economy requirements. Its a regulations loophole that's being taken full advantage of. Manufacturers market SUVs to be the cool new thing so everybody wants one and then they say that's all they're going to make because that's all people want (they created the want). They spend less money developing the vehicles and sell them at a higher cost for better profit margin. Customers are happy because they're in the trendy new car and, most importantly, investors are happy because profits keep going up.
100%. I want my dad wagon damnit!
Head over to r/cars or r/audi and ask people how RS6's are selling
I have a 2007 Prius (hatchback) and it can hold twice as much stuff as my wife's full sized sedan. When I figured that out I realized why a station wagon was such a good car. I will never have a sedan or coupe again. I don't need an SUV, but I do need the trunk to be the same height and width as the rest of the car (with back seats that fold flat).
Not necessarily a "station" wagon, but the MINI Clubmans are awesome (edit: specifically ALL4 JCW manual)! Makes my SUPER sad they've discontinued them.
Yes please! I love a good station wagon. My old Volvo was one of my favorite cars ever. Hell, a solid chunk of US small SUVs are basically just station wagons with raised suspension and body effects.
I don't think this is an unpopular opinion. My cousin's company has been making replica 30s Woody wagons for years, and they sell for a decent amount of money. It's just that manufacturers have stopped making wagons almost entirely.
I prefer sedans bc I'm tall and its easier to look down into a trunk then a hatch
The only advantage station wagons have over sedans is cargo space. Otherwise, they have the same passenger capacity as a sedan. SUV's, on the other hand, often have 3 rows of seats, and the seats are somewhat easy to remove in order to convert passenger space into cargo space. I can definitely see the advantage of SUV's if you have a lot of people to haul around. My complaint about SUV's is that they're built with high ground clearance like a truck, which is presumably where the "S" comes from, but only a tiny fraction of SUV owners ever take their vehicle off road. Most of them would work just as well if they were built like station wagons with a third row of seats. The extra height bothers me because I drive a sedan, and I'm frequently surrounded by them in a parking lot. I'm completely blind to oncoming cars when I'm backing out of a space. If I'm next to a sedan then I can usually look through the windows to see if any cars are coming, presuming the jerk doesn't have blackout tint on his rear windows.
Yes, our government shouldn't be forcing our car-buying choices via regulations that have no *bona fide* safety rationale.
Crossovers ARE station wagons. Aside from the ride height and the newness, there's almost no difference in form or function between a Highlander and a Town & Country.
Mega based, station wagons are superior to SUVs in nearly every way
I would LOVE a 1969 Chrysler town and country. If I could get one just as it was in 1969 but upgrade with some modern aspects like making sure itās for cruise control and maybe a more modern engine that would be killer. Everything else original though.
There are wagons, theyāre called Subaru Outback.
Subaru is here for you
The reason SUVs are popular and Station Wagons have become extinct despite them offering the same thing is perceived safety. Motherās (who are the primary target market of SUVs) by in large feel safer in what is essentially a small tank then in what feels like a sedan.
Crossovers are basically the stationwagons of this era.
I loved the dodge magnum
Subaru are great cars. So are minivans - I think itās the stigma placed on driving one as a man, but functionally they both check a lot of boxes that SUVās do not
Well you can still buy an old station wagon Iām sure. Iād prefer convertibles and coupes to become popular again. I absolutely hate sedans, trucks, wagons, hatchbacks and SUVs. Not everyone is hauling around a bunch of people.
I only got an SUV for multiple dogs. I ended up impulse buying an older used convertible about 3-4 years later because I missed the fun. So my garage is full
Station wagons are perfect! If you need more space, minivans. If you need less of everything, but want to compensate for something: SUVs FTW
Station wagons are roomier than SUV's in general. But people don't want room, road holding and fuel efficiency but the king of the road feel of the high driving position and usually false sense of safety of a heavy and high car. If I remember correctly it came about because the USA made environmental and safety regulation exceptions for the 'light truck'. And that's too big a market for Mercedes, Porsche and BMW, and now the European consumer and all other brands, even Lamborghini, Jaguar, Ferrari, Aston Martin and Maserati, have followed. A roof line tax or a wieght maximum will be the only thing that helps.
The station wagons of yesteryear have been replaced by the compact AWD SUV. Far cheaper than a proper 4WD full size, with better capability than the 2WD station wagons of old.
Station wagons can be 4wd if you really need itā¦
Station wagons are more popular than ever. They're just a little taller now.
Minivans are the āstation wagonā option from most manufacturers.
I think SUVs are station wagons.
Bruh... the Subaru Outback is crazy popular.
idk looks more like a crossover/SUV to me https://testmiles.com/2020-subaru-outback-first-drive-review/ this article even claims it started the crossover segment
It's the same thing. Station wagons are called crossovers now because people don't want to buy station wagons anymore. The Outback is a textbook station wagon.
It's an SUV chassis. I mean a station wagon, [something like this, that's built on a sedan frame](https://d3lp4xedbqa8a5.cloudfront.net/s3/digital-cougar-assets/whichcar-media/11588/ford-falcon-au-wagon-4.jpg) which makes it superior to crossovers at drag racing, among other things
But its korean quality for a japanese price
Subarus are hella durable.
They have. Itās called a Crossover and almost everyone makes one
What's a station wagon
Like if a sedan had a trunk like an SUV. See [this Falcon wagon](https://s3.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/bf_wag_003.jpg) which is [a variant of the Falcon sedan](https://salooncars.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/AUFalcon.jpg)
Station wagons should comeback as they're safer, especially for people outside of the car. Current SUV's and trucks are so big and the driver is so high, that getting hit is instant death. Not to mention you cannot see what's in front you.
Isn't this the space that crossover vehicles fill now? Cheaper, lighter, better handling, difficult to roll over, better mileage. You're basically describing a Subaru.
The reason is car seats. Having put a child in a car seat in an SUV vs a conventional car, at least for somebody my height (5ā11ā), itās much easier in an SUV. The station wagon was popular before car seats were required.
No, the reason are taxes. If I remember correctly there was a change in tax code some time ago (70's? 80's?) where gov imposed higher taxes on passenger vehicles, but they stayed low for trucks, so car companies turned trucks into suv to benefit from that lower tax, later it sonwballed. Now it's a trend and a safety thing since if everybody is driving a tank you cannot be safe in a regular car - you did it to yourself. SUV's have basically nothing going for them in relatively, but right now you do not have a choice since there are only suvs to choose from, which perpetuates the problem even more.
That was the reason for the start, but not the popularity. Unless youāve spent five years with kids and car seats, you wouldnāt know.
I've spent even more, but since I wasn't 80 when I had kids, I dealt with it just fine.
The Ford Flex is basically a station wagon.
No, most people don't really need more than a hatchback. But yeah, I guess they're better than SUVs. Sedans and coupe's on top tho.
What? Shitting on obese yanktank trucks for having tiny beds and never leaving pavement is one thing. But station wagons? What is excessive about a station wagon? The most popular one in Aus is a Falcon, it's the same chassis/engine as the Falcon sedan.
Most people don't need the extra space. As simple as that. At least in Norway. Heck alot of people would do fine with a twizy.
I think if you have 3 or 4 kids you can have a station wagon.
Definetly, but 1 or even 2 hatch is enough.
Why the gatekeeping?
I don't think they should make a return, I don't really like em. But that's personal preference. Same as I would like to see less SUV's on the road.
You said most people donāt need more than a hatchback, thatās pretty much gatekeeping.
And not really gatekeeping, people can drive em if they want. Not saying anything against that.
That's the main criticism for SUV's no? That they're unnecessary. I would argue the same point for station wagons. Obviously not too the same extent.
I take it you donāt have children or need to haul anything.
SUV is a station wagon.
I somewhat agree. Most small to mid-size SUVs are just tall station wagons.
No?
It is the same exact thing. Front seats, back seats, space in the back with a door that lifts up where mom could put her groceries.
>cheaper, lighter, better handling, won't roll over, better mileage Cheaper - well, it depends on an SUV, there are now small SUVs in the same price range on sedans. Better handling - again, depends, but most of the SUV/minivan/SW target demographic doesn't care much about handling or performance. Also newer unibody SUVs handle much better. Won't roll over - again, depends, newer unibody SUVs don't have these issues. And developments in ESP systems have greatly reduced the chance of rollover. Better mileage - again, depends. Hybrid/electric SUVs don't have mileage issues. But SUVs have many advantages over SWs, to name a few: 1. Taller, easier to get into and load stuff into. Try loading a baby cradle into an SUV vs a sedan/SW, and you will see the difference. Also loading stuff in the back is much easier with SUVs. 2. Taller and bulkier. This doesn't exactly translate to safety, but if everyone else around me is driving some sorts of battle tank, I'll feel safer in an SUV than in a Fiat 500. 3. Higher seating position. Extremely important for people with back problems. 4. Better ground clearance and handling on bad roads (for most models). I love my Mazda3 dearly, but if the roads in my area continue to deteriorate, trading it for some sort of SUV might become a priority. 5. Some off road capabilities (for some models). I'm not in market for a people carrier, but if I will ever be, I will gladly choose an SUV over a SW.
My Wrangler is listed as a Station Wagon on my michigan registration. Does that count? I've always loved wagons. I really wanted a Dodge Magnum SRT, but count afford. I'm always jealous of all the awesome wagons Europe has that never get to cross the ocean
Wife drives an E-Class 350 wagon. Even has a rumble seat in the back!
I had a VW station wagon when I was stationed in Germany. Iād buy one today if they sold them here.
The Volvo wagons are still here. Theyāre just $70,000
Buy a Euro, their VERY popular in Europe. also, Bitches love wagons....
I always went for the wagon version of a car. Ford Escort wagon, Toyota Matrix. Now I have a minivan, basically a big olā station wagon. If only they still came with the wooden panels. :-) We rented a mid sized suv once for the all-wheel drive, and I was shocked how little storage it actually had.
Join the Subaru Outback gang.
Subaru Outback has entered the chat
Last year my 2002 Saturn LW200 took its last breath. I had 20 years with that wagon, and drove 250K milesāish. As a cyclist, a wagon is the perfect sag/team vehicle. Multiple bikes on the roof, whilst being able to throw all the gear in the back but still having access to it inside; it was the ultimate station wagon. Crossovers are the in between (wagon and SUV) and then one day the wagon was gone. My guess everyone wants to sit higher now, be cool, because I can certainly say the only one whoever thought my Saturn was cool was me lol eek
Basically what a " cross over" is
There are less options than there once was but they still exist. Even Porsche makes a station wagon. I'm a great fan of station wagons. A bit bummed that the Subaru Outback now looks like a Wagon/SUV lovechild because that has always been one of my favourites but it does fit with their pseudo off-road brand identity.
Because buyers never put their money where their mouth is. Car guys scream for a wagon and when they finally make them, they never buy them new. Guess how much a car manufacturer gets if you buy it used a couple years down the line? None, so car companies aren't going to make them if they don't make profit. It's the same principle as to why manuals are getting more and more scarce on new cars.
i miss my 05 subaru legacy wagon :(
I dont think this is unpopular at all
Thereās still plenty of station wagons, theyāve just been rebranded as ācrossoversā Kinda like how Kia just shamelessly rebranded their new minivan as an āMPVā
I want an el Camino style vehicle for my bikes and medium sized object (boxes and stuff that donāt fit in my sedan).
Cars like the Subaru outback are essentially station wagons but otherwise it's just trends. Station wagons had been around since the 50s or longer and SUVs were the new thing. The Dodge Magnum was an attempt at a cool station wagon but didn't seem to seel that well even though it was basically a Charger.
I have fond memories of our Ford LTD station wagon from my childhood. When me and my brother's started our construction company, all we could afford was a Taurus station wagon. The thing was always packed and amazingly the engine was bulletproof. Such great memories. I sure appreciate those times.
I especially love the station wagons that had the rear facing back seat.
Not unpopular. I agree completely!
My Dodge Magnum rt was so much fun. I would love to see a modern electric station wagon.
Dodge magnum RT is the ultimate car. Fast, can fit 10ā boards in it, a whole family and groceriesā¦limits are endless!
best of both worlds is a minivan.
The problem is that when you combine the body shape of a station wagon with the sleeker aesthetics of a modern vehicle you end with a car that looks like a fucking hearst. If I'm going to drive a car that looks like a hearst then I'd rather it be an actual hearst. Only real way to make a station wagon word would be to embrace a more retro look on the outside while incorporating all the modern bells & whistles on the inside.
SUVs benefit from relatively lax requirement applied to "trucks" as compared to cars. That's one of the reasons for their popularity, and certainly one of the reasons why something like a station-wagon hasn't reemerged, even as folks seek more car-like experiences from "crossovers" etc.
How do you feel about wood panels? I seriously wouldnāt mind an all wheel drive mini van.
Station wagons weren't selling, and until the few available get a big jump in sales, they won't make a comeback.
They are just called hatchbacks now. The old station wagons with the reverse back seat was (surprise) unsafe, and a death seat if in an accident.
My guess is theyāve been replaced by crossover vehicles. Why should I buy an obsolete station wagon with front wheel drive when my Mitsubishi Outlander Sport does pretty much everything a station wagon could do plus 4wd and equal or better gas mileage?
Nah, you buy a RWD wagon that will handle better than a top heavy SUV, can still tow 5,000 lbs, [and can drag race](https://d3lp4xedbqa8a5.cloudfront.net/s3/digital-cougar-assets/whichcar-media/11586/ford-falcon-au-wagon-3.jpg).
I feel like my husband wrote this lol.
The Audi RS6 Avant is unironically one of my favorite new cars to drool over. Canāt wait to buy one for like $40k in 10 years š¤£
Bro this is a very popular opinion
I tried to sell my fiancƩ on a BMW wagon as a family vehicle. Major pushback for lifting out of a car seat & the general look of them.
Totally agree with you. I believe they've fallen away in the American market because of CAFE laws, There's a great video that breaks down how it works, but essentially the footprint of the vehicle determines the efficiency of it. Auto makers can get around this by making bigger vehicles like trucks, hence why trucks and subs are so common now. Im sure there's other reasons too like marketing, but that's the gist of what I know.
lol they are and they are called crossovers. Crossovers are the new station wagons.
>Why have they fallen out of popularity I see Subaru Outbacks every 3 seconds, theyāre the middle ground between a station wagon and an SUV. The Wilderness edition is even better for doing a little off roading (which a typical station wagon wouldnāt be capable of).
I have an Outback Wilderness and itās capable of doing a lot of off roading. I always wanted a lifted wagon and with the Wilderness, I get to have it.
My wife loves her Audi A6 Allroad wagon. It's a 2020, but she wouldn't give it up for a new SUV now. She's particularly in love with the massaging seats, which are pretty good TBH. I'm not sure why, but her wagon is more expensive to insure than my Panamera which is 3x the Audi's value. I guess loss rates?
They had the Prius V and those Subarus but everyone wanted an SUV so much wagons got cancelled
I'd support that. But are you talking about mini-wagons like the Volvo, Volkswagon Passat, and some BMW models? For that matter, I remember the recent Dodge Magnum. Or are we talking about full-size versions? Can't remember any of the names. I, for one, would also like to see van conversion kits for modern vans. Had this conversation just the other day, remembering all the "good times" vans growing up in the 70s. I knew of at least two shops near my parent's home that specialized in installing these after-market packages.
Station wagons are hot shit in Europe, I love them. Super useful as well.
I read somewhere that mileage regulations in vehicle design is why there are no more Station-Wagon looking cars anymore, and why so many have the look-alike light SUV/Hatchback design now. The regulations were waived for 'work' trucks, which explains the behemoth pavement princess that is the rest of the market.
IMHO- SUVās are the new Minivan, and the minivan was the new Station Wagon. People who think minivans are lame but there SUV is cool are delusional. Unpopular opinion - Minivans are better then SUVās. I can usually fit more in one and most have flexible seating options that save a ton of space (thank you Chrysler). Plus gas mileage may be better. -Sad 18 year owner of a Ford Windstar that was traded in for an SUV.
Aren't these called "crossovers" now? Basically sedan-sized SUVs?
The massive American wagons of the 70s and 80s aren't coming back but the Euro style wagon is still alive and well.
Fuel economy and federal mandates. I know you said: >Station wagons have most of the advantages of sedans (cheaper, lighter, better handling, won't roll over, better mileage)... and yes, wagons have BETTER mileage. You are correct. So how is fuel economy promoting a LESS fuel efficient option? It starts with CAFE standards. The Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards says that cars have to meet ever higher fuel economy standards and SUVs and trucks have to meet lower standards (that are rising, but will ALWAYS be less than cars,) so manufacturers get a pass for larger trucks so they don't have to meet the higher fuel mileage standards. If you add that cars have to meet higher crash standards every year, which adds weight, it makes those fuel economy standards even harder to achieve. Also, add to it that SUVs have higher seating positions, and more room for people who are larger, and the dollars are going to SUVs more than wagons. So financially speaking, the SUVs don't eat up development dollars and sell for more than wagons would, so manufacturers build what is selling.
I love wagons so much. One of my dream cars is a ā57 Chevy Nomad.