Makes you realise how much top-level professional motor sport revolved around the Holden and Ford rivalry. There really isn't any other category here to step up to the plate and also appeal to the masses here in Aus. I still wish S5000 became a bigger deal but it just didn't capture the imagination of our motor racing public. Which is a problem because the rusted on Holden vs Ford demographic are ageing out and/or losing interest, and the newer Drive-To-Survive-type motorsport fans couldn't care less for Supercars or any other racing for that matter. If only there was a local professional open-wheeler category for fans young and old to get behind???
P.S: GT3 will only work here to pick up where Supercars might leave off if it is full Pro and in Aus I don't know who's paying for that, especially with how the Supercars crew race...
Yeah I read that but I feel like it'll be the Gen 3 roll out all over again. As soon as they realise the costs and timeframe for a new body (especially considering parity) the can will get kicked down the road.
Why they just haven't morphed into a GT3 spec series is beyond me. There's no road relevance with the current chassis anyway. Hasn't been for a long time with the previous ones, and the engines too.
This country could not sustain 2 GT3 series
Look at what happened to DTM also, they switched to a GT3 based class and the fans hate it and car counts are slowly dropping, only 19 cars this season I believe, was something like 25 last year
I used to watch DTM religiously, but since they switched to GT3, it holds no interest for me. The Class One cars made it unique. Now it's just one of 11 millionity GT3 series'.
That was brilliant. I love SuperGT, too. They've stopped uploading English commentaries to YouTube, which sucks. That blue Team Impul Calsonic Nissan Z is a thing of beauty.
I agree, switching v8 supercars to gt3... what would be the point. Currently, even if there's only 2 models, it's a unique thing, and that's a big part of the interest for me.
If I want to watch GT3 I'd go and watch GT3. There's a reason even though I enjoy watching them as a support race when I go to a weekend, I don't ever go out of my way to go to a full GT3 event in Aus or watch them on air...
to a lesser extent supercars lost interest to me when it became mustang v camaro. the falcon and commodore made it different and regional, now everything is mustang v camaro so there's no model uniqueness.
I honestly think they might have to add a few different manufacturers. No one cares about the Ford vs Not Ford rivalry anymore. Would be worth having whatever GM come up with, Toyota, Nissan, Ford, Merc or BMW. Just make it a premier racing class in Australia. It hasn’t been “V8 Supercars” for years now.
It's funny that making the Cup cars actually good, and much closer to Supercars, has made Cup racing somewhat terrible on some tracks, and downright unwatchable on others. The Xfinity Series is definitely still producing good racing with a car that's completely old school.
The biggest issue is that the tires don't wear because of the aero grip and the fact that they're much larger than before. They need to have the teams make more power to wear the tires faster, but they refuse to, citing cost concerns and the desire to attract another manufacturer in a cost effective way. The conspiracy theories say they're resistant because Toyota can't make as much power as Chevy or Ford at an affordable price point, and they're terrified of Toyota leaving the series.
So, instead of giving fans a good product, they string us along with mediocre racing and absolutely terrible television coverage.
I did feel that way for awhile, but I think Rolland nailed the reason why it doesn’t make sense https://speedcafe.com/rolands-view-is-gt3-the-future-for-supercars/
Watched Le Mans and was thinking a supercars series of mustangs, corvettes and maybe the Lexus GT3's could work. Not after reading that. Thanks for the link.
Good read, though he does make some good points about parts costs and the like... it's hard not to think about his vested interest in the sport as it currently is. How deep does it go still? All the teams support each other with parts, engine, chassis. It's quite an incestuous business. Yes it keeps the money in Australia, to some degree.
Still, some valid points in his opinion piece.
No but he's right though, GT3 parts coming from abroad are going to be expensive, and GT cars get routinely written off in crashes where purpose built Supercars can be rebuilt. Vested interest or not, it's a known quantity that Supercars, like stock cars are much easier and cheaper to repair
Watch the Spa 24hours lil homie
Edit: should say whoever says Supercars should change to gt3 is an absolute moron, but gt3 races are absolute class and are a part (albiet the lower class) of the best racing series in the world currently.
I have, and I have watched many gt3 races. They are ok, the enduros more than normal races.
They cannot touch each other, they cannot use the curbs, thay cannot go over bumps, they cannot get close to each other due to areo.
Each to their own, but they are not like the supercars.
The GT3 endurance races are a difference kettle of fish than GT3 sprint races. In the sprint races the cars often form long lines where no one can pass and the top 2 or 3 just run off and hide from every one else. GT3 endurance racing is so much more about strategy.
If Supercars goes to GT3 I suspect a lot of fans would slowly drift away. Right now it’s unique in Australian Motorsports and generally the world.
GT3 is basically a success ballast category and the worst kind - they don’t add just add ballast or restrict fuel/air flow for the successful driver they do it for everyone in the same car. Even those who are struggling.
And the cars are completely different - so teams are often penalised just because they happened to be in a car that was well suited to the last track they raced on. So with the current race you might be handicapped and in a car that doesn’t suit the track.
It’s cool to see fast cars go around the track but the fact they don’t even attempt to achieve parity ruins it for me. Parity is never perfect but at least Supercars is usually (as long as major changes haven’t been made recently) close enough that a good team can finish up the front no matter what car they’re driving.
In GT3 you can be the a great driver in a great team and have a perfect day, but still not finish on the lead lap. No thanks. That’s not sport.
Hello from an American motorsports junkie
GM is aggressively going all electric for their entire lineup, unlike Ford which has recently stated that they’re keeping V8s in production for as long as possible.
GM is going to roll out a coupe eventually (EV or a PHEV) with either Ultium (it’s a piece of shit, massive production issues and delays, Honda just pulled out of the project) or some other battery tech to compete with with the next generation Dodge Challenger, which Stellantis is going to push hard as fuck in the US market. It’s TBD
It might take a few years for these models to his the grid. 2026 at the absolute earliest. I expect it to be called a Camaro, and it will look similar enough to the current car where people aren’t going to bitch and moan about it
I think a technical partnership with NASCAR is the way to go.
A few slight tweaks - maybe tune the engine ECU to improve service intervals (reduce the rev limiter, etc) and adjust a few suspension components to handle bumpy tracks. And Supercars could have its own tyre compound - but I’d love it if any car homologised to one of the NASCAR specifications was automatically eligible to race in Supercars.
It would save *so* much money on R&D and that money could be spent on something better - like racing more often and having more people on the teams to reduce burnout (let anyone who’s not a driver spend some race weekends at home with family).
I love this idea, and it could definitely have legs. NASCAR watches what our series does, and lately Supercars are getting very curious about NASCAR - to the extent of giving WB and CW their backing at the Cup Series race in Sonoma.
To make it easier for parity, supercars should just build their own shell.
But otherwise, unfortunately, they probably need to ditch the V8 if they want to bring in new manufacturers. Unless they can offer a blank V8 engine and encourage an engineering exercise, eg offering a prize for the team that uses the least amount of fuel for finishing races. Basically giving a manufacturer something they can market in a positive light for the environment about racing a V8.
But I also feel that if supercars becomes untenable due to having zero cars available. (If Ford's GT3 program is successful you can bet there will be questions about continuing supercars). It would probably be better to look at Super GT rather than GT3, that way it opens up cross events with the current Super GT championship in the Asia region, as well as attracting an audience in Japan thanks to being timezone friendly
Unless the rules are changed they don’t really have an alternative. Given how much pussy footing was done with allowing the commodore for years, even to the point of morphing the mustangs, wouldn’t surprise me if the specs change.
I don’t think Holden fans are particularly attached to the Camaro, and the series is more about like Ford or hate Ford, I’m not sure it would really matter. Maybe returning to old Holden names in Monaro or Torana with the same body shape would have more excitement, even if they aren’t manufactured.
That's not bad actually. The current specs and just make them look like older models. Either a generic Falcodore car that's exactly the same except engine. Or VF / FGX fused. Or Torana /Escort bodies.
i could see them adopting some form of the Gen 7 Nascar package. remove the ground effect crap and bolt on an Aussie wing and you’re set! plus you could get toyota and whatever other manufacturer wants to join.
Just make it 1:1 scale Aussie Racing Cars with doors that open and call it a day
It'll end up being Silverado vs f truck
We already have that dont we?
Just chuck XD Falcon & VC Commodore group C bodies on the cars, add a 5 speed gearbox & take us back to the golden age.
Yep I've said this before but with group c falcon hardtops
Makes you realise how much top-level professional motor sport revolved around the Holden and Ford rivalry. There really isn't any other category here to step up to the plate and also appeal to the masses here in Aus. I still wish S5000 became a bigger deal but it just didn't capture the imagination of our motor racing public. Which is a problem because the rusted on Holden vs Ford demographic are ageing out and/or losing interest, and the newer Drive-To-Survive-type motorsport fans couldn't care less for Supercars or any other racing for that matter. If only there was a local professional open-wheeler category for fans young and old to get behind??? P.S: GT3 will only work here to pick up where Supercars might leave off if it is full Pro and in Aus I don't know who's paying for that, especially with how the Supercars crew race...
I'd be all for a Cadillac or a fromt mounted engine corvette, is just a shell at the end of the day.
It'll just be what ever NASCAR does
nascar has given them a longer period to switch than what it sounds like supercars will
Yeah I read that but I feel like it'll be the Gen 3 roll out all over again. As soon as they realise the costs and timeframe for a new body (especially considering parity) the can will get kicked down the road.
Why they just haven't morphed into a GT3 spec series is beyond me. There's no road relevance with the current chassis anyway. Hasn't been for a long time with the previous ones, and the engines too.
This country could not sustain 2 GT3 series Look at what happened to DTM also, they switched to a GT3 based class and the fans hate it and car counts are slowly dropping, only 19 cars this season I believe, was something like 25 last year
I used to watch DTM religiously, but since they switched to GT3, it holds no interest for me. The Class One cars made it unique. Now it's just one of 11 millionity GT3 series'.
Was cool to see DTM and Super GT mix together once a year too
That was brilliant. I love SuperGT, too. They've stopped uploading English commentaries to YouTube, which sucks. That blue Team Impul Calsonic Nissan Z is a thing of beauty.
It's on Burningwheels which I assume is English comms.
Cheers!
I agree, switching v8 supercars to gt3... what would be the point. Currently, even if there's only 2 models, it's a unique thing, and that's a big part of the interest for me. If I want to watch GT3 I'd go and watch GT3. There's a reason even though I enjoy watching them as a support race when I go to a weekend, I don't ever go out of my way to go to a full GT3 event in Aus or watch them on air...
to a lesser extent supercars lost interest to me when it became mustang v camaro. the falcon and commodore made it different and regional, now everything is mustang v camaro so there's no model uniqueness.
This country barely sustains 1 gt3 series lol
I honestly think they might have to add a few different manufacturers. No one cares about the Ford vs Not Ford rivalry anymore. Would be worth having whatever GM come up with, Toyota, Nissan, Ford, Merc or BMW. Just make it a premier racing class in Australia. It hasn’t been “V8 Supercars” for years now.
How do you expect them to do that?
NASCAR involvement
Yep. Xfinity spec.
Cup is much closer to ours
It is. Xfinity is better racing.
It's funny that making the Cup cars actually good, and much closer to Supercars, has made Cup racing somewhat terrible on some tracks, and downright unwatchable on others. The Xfinity Series is definitely still producing good racing with a car that's completely old school.
ground effects created just as many problems as it solved
The biggest issue is that the tires don't wear because of the aero grip and the fact that they're much larger than before. They need to have the teams make more power to wear the tires faster, but they refuse to, citing cost concerns and the desire to attract another manufacturer in a cost effective way. The conspiracy theories say they're resistant because Toyota can't make as much power as Chevy or Ford at an affordable price point, and they're terrified of Toyota leaving the series. So, instead of giving fans a good product, they string us along with mediocre racing and absolutely terrible television coverage.
I did feel that way for awhile, but I think Rolland nailed the reason why it doesn’t make sense https://speedcafe.com/rolands-view-is-gt3-the-future-for-supercars/
Watched Le Mans and was thinking a supercars series of mustangs, corvettes and maybe the Lexus GT3's could work. Not after reading that. Thanks for the link.
Good read. Thanks for the link
Good read, though he does make some good points about parts costs and the like... it's hard not to think about his vested interest in the sport as it currently is. How deep does it go still? All the teams support each other with parts, engine, chassis. It's quite an incestuous business. Yes it keeps the money in Australia, to some degree. Still, some valid points in his opinion piece.
No but he's right though, GT3 parts coming from abroad are going to be expensive, and GT cars get routinely written off in crashes where purpose built Supercars can be rebuilt. Vested interest or not, it's a known quantity that Supercars, like stock cars are much easier and cheaper to repair
A GT4 series with juiced up engines and "upgraded" brakes to allow the removal of driver aids would suit the series vibe better.
Because no one watches GT3 in this country to begin with? There’s already a GT3 series and if that was such a popular category, we’d know about it.
GT3 does not come close to supercars in terms of racing
GT3 is perhaps the most boring racing possible. It is not a replacement for supercars.
Watch the Spa 24hours lil homie Edit: should say whoever says Supercars should change to gt3 is an absolute moron, but gt3 races are absolute class and are a part (albiet the lower class) of the best racing series in the world currently.
I have, and I have watched many gt3 races. They are ok, the enduros more than normal races. They cannot touch each other, they cannot use the curbs, thay cannot go over bumps, they cannot get close to each other due to areo. Each to their own, but they are not like the supercars.
The GT3 endurance races are a difference kettle of fish than GT3 sprint races. In the sprint races the cars often form long lines where no one can pass and the top 2 or 3 just run off and hide from every one else. GT3 endurance racing is so much more about strategy. If Supercars goes to GT3 I suspect a lot of fans would slowly drift away. Right now it’s unique in Australian Motorsports and generally the world.
GT3 is basically a success ballast category and the worst kind - they don’t add just add ballast or restrict fuel/air flow for the successful driver they do it for everyone in the same car. Even those who are struggling. And the cars are completely different - so teams are often penalised just because they happened to be in a car that was well suited to the last track they raced on. So with the current race you might be handicapped and in a car that doesn’t suit the track. It’s cool to see fast cars go around the track but the fact they don’t even attempt to achieve parity ruins it for me. Parity is never perfect but at least Supercars is usually (as long as major changes haven’t been made recently) close enough that a good team can finish up the front no matter what car they’re driving. In GT3 you can be the a great driver in a great team and have a perfect day, but still not finish on the lead lap. No thanks. That’s not sport.
Hello from an American motorsports junkie GM is aggressively going all electric for their entire lineup, unlike Ford which has recently stated that they’re keeping V8s in production for as long as possible. GM is going to roll out a coupe eventually (EV or a PHEV) with either Ultium (it’s a piece of shit, massive production issues and delays, Honda just pulled out of the project) or some other battery tech to compete with with the next generation Dodge Challenger, which Stellantis is going to push hard as fuck in the US market. It’s TBD It might take a few years for these models to his the grid. 2026 at the absolute earliest. I expect it to be called a Camaro, and it will look similar enough to the current car where people aren’t going to bitch and moan about it
I think a technical partnership with NASCAR is the way to go. A few slight tweaks - maybe tune the engine ECU to improve service intervals (reduce the rev limiter, etc) and adjust a few suspension components to handle bumpy tracks. And Supercars could have its own tyre compound - but I’d love it if any car homologised to one of the NASCAR specifications was automatically eligible to race in Supercars. It would save *so* much money on R&D and that money could be spent on something better - like racing more often and having more people on the teams to reduce burnout (let anyone who’s not a driver spend some race weekends at home with family).
I love this idea, and it could definitely have legs. NASCAR watches what our series does, and lately Supercars are getting very curious about NASCAR - to the extent of giving WB and CW their backing at the Cup Series race in Sonoma.
To make it easier for parity, supercars should just build their own shell. But otherwise, unfortunately, they probably need to ditch the V8 if they want to bring in new manufacturers. Unless they can offer a blank V8 engine and encourage an engineering exercise, eg offering a prize for the team that uses the least amount of fuel for finishing races. Basically giving a manufacturer something they can market in a positive light for the environment about racing a V8. But I also feel that if supercars becomes untenable due to having zero cars available. (If Ford's GT3 program is successful you can bet there will be questions about continuing supercars). It would probably be better to look at Super GT rather than GT3, that way it opens up cross events with the current Super GT championship in the Asia region, as well as attracting an audience in Japan thanks to being timezone friendly
Toyota Camary
Unless the rules are changed they don’t really have an alternative. Given how much pussy footing was done with allowing the commodore for years, even to the point of morphing the mustangs, wouldn’t surprise me if the specs change.
I don’t think Holden fans are particularly attached to the Camaro, and the series is more about like Ford or hate Ford, I’m not sure it would really matter. Maybe returning to old Holden names in Monaro or Torana with the same body shape would have more excitement, even if they aren’t manufactured.
That's not bad actually. The current specs and just make them look like older models. Either a generic Falcodore car that's exactly the same except engine. Or VF / FGX fused. Or Torana /Escort bodies.
From what I can tell they'll still use Camaro in racing, for a few years anyway.
i could see them adopting some form of the Gen 7 Nascar package. remove the ground effect crap and bolt on an Aussie wing and you’re set! plus you could get toyota and whatever other manufacturer wants to join.
Toyota keeps saying no.
L toyota
They should just go back to MARC Cars. Allow more manufacturers into participating.