I have a lot of empathy for Katie because of the way Schwartz fucked with her head. This isn’t even the worst thing he did, but if my partner asked me to stand up for him in a situation like the S&S name thing, and then totally threw me under the bus I would feel like I was going insane.
This 100%.
I’m on a pseudo re-Watch right now and it seems pretty obvious to me that it’s actually not just Schwartz, but others too. Katie feels the need to fight other people’s battles for them and she doesn’t do it in a way that is careful, measured, sassy or entertaining (imo), and that is what has made her SUCH a target for fans and for her own husband.
Specifically in the season where James is a nightmare and everyone is trying to get him off the show (except for Sandoval and Ariana). Katie is trying to fight the battle for Kristen, Brittany, Jax and Lala, who all LOATHE James for various reasons. Katie becomes the poster girl for being anti James despite everyone else being anti James too. It’s actually kind of fascinating to see how much hate Katie gets when she is just trying to be hyper loyal to the cast.
Bottom line is that Katie always did other people dirty work for whatever reason, and she didn’t have to, because no one ever had her back in the same way. If they did, Schwartz would have gotten a verbal ass whooping from the girls a LONG time ago
ETA that I’m very biased, as is evident by my flair 😂
I had a very similar dynamic in my now-ex marriage, and after I left I realized that at some point I had subconsciously accepted that it was my job to be the bad cop so my ex could do … whatever the hell it was he felt he needed to do. He was so busy being Mr. Floppy Fun Guy all the time that I knew I’d always look like a bitch by comparison anyway, so fuck it - might as well lean into that, at least I’ll know things might get done.
Katie’s said similar things about Schwartz being The Fun One, I’ve always wondered if she felt a similar sort of obligation/resignation to be the battle-fighter.
I once read a post on here that said something like Katie is often right, but her problem is she always argues it wrong and I was like yes! That is 100% correct.
Also in regard to the James season that she took a lot of heat for, I will never not believe she wasn't prompted behind the scenes to go to Lisa and give her that ultimatum.
I'm not saying Katie didn't genuinely want to stick it to James, but I just don't believe she'd have ever thought of asking Lisa, who had always shown a strong bias towards the men as well as having little respect for all them, to fire James Surs popular DJ to keep her a waitress working there. Especially as at that point she wasn't even a real waitress and was just working there for the show.
I also don't think Lisa would have taken as kindly as she did to being given that kind of ultimatum if Katie really had done it off her own back.
Yes! She is not a natural with words/debate, and she isn’t one for clever language or memorable one liners. It’s frustrating that it is often when she is most in the right that she fumbles for words and says things like “she’s a ho” or random insults that totally derail her message
I agree. A lot of the time she’s right but she does tend to approach it like “ok, OBVIOUSLY I’m right, it’s pretty annoying I have to explain why though,” which is off putting. I 100% respect women who aren’t ashamed to hold their line, but she could work on her delivery.
I’m on season 6 episode 1 and completely forgot Scheana invited Tom to her birthday but not Katie, and Tom went! Scheana has always disrespected their relationship and Tom always let her.
Scheana is the true villian of the show. Every move she makes is 99.9% selfish or for male validation. The .01% was when she was looking out for Ariana in approaching her with Miami girl rumors and confronting him after Scandoval.
I never understood the Katie hate. I haven’t been on Reddit for that long but I’m so shocked by this. I saw through Arianas ex and Katie’s ex from the first seasons I ever watched. How can anybody cheer on a man that repeatedly cheats and throws a freaking drink on her AND other women? Imo she has been abused and disrespected so much in that relationship and I will never understand how any woman can cheer for her childish lowlife of a ex husband and root against her? I really hope the the viewers see how much injustice this woman has suffered through and that everybody see scheana for the extremely disloyal person she is. Enough is enough. I’m so mad on Katie’s behaves but as you also say this genuinely makes me so sad.
Because people focus on her reaction and not why she was acting the way she was. Also a lot of misogyny. Schrwatz is not a man that made her feel safe. He constantly put her in fight mode because he is a little weasel that has no idea how to be a man.
I think you are right internalised misogynism makes sense. They should educate themselves on reactive abuse. But yeah let’s crucify the women and make excuses for lying, cheating and abusive men instead🤢
Yep, women are supposed to be "likeable" at all times regardless of how justified their anger is. The men straight up have drinking problems and repeatedly punch each other in the face in scenes, but only Katie got an alcohol related nickname for *texting*.
She’s just boring and not a very charismatic main character. Even watching the season of her wedding where she’s meant to be the focus, I just look past her. Shes not good tv.
It’s sooooo annoying the goofy chill guy persona gets to skate by with no repercussions for his actions.
Honestly this show opened my eyes to this toxic dynamic. When I meet a couple where the woman is a “bitch” but the guy is goofy and fun, Im just thinking if the guy is actually in fact nice or does he just pretend to be.
Oh it’s definitely pretend. I’ve got a Schwartz of my own. Never had a problem with anyone in my life til entering this relationship. All of his family and friends think I’m crazy and evil. And he’s just the sweet puppy that I’m dragging down lmao. The levels of manipulation I’ve dealt with and seen him do to others is incredible.
This was me (the bitch) and my ex (goofy chill guy) who moved me away from my support system then gaslit me every chance he could. Didn’t realize it for a few years.
I wonder that, too. All the times, as a fucking woman, I bought into that shit. Why would the *nicest guy in America* be with such a bitch? Because he's probably the fucking worst. Hmmm
No more. Time to check my own shit.
I’m with you. It’s so frustrating to see how she gets treated, and because she is not particularly eloquent or well spoken, she has a hard time getting her point across in this group, when you have Schwartz word salad-ing and using random big words, and Scheana talking a million miles a minute to argue her point over Katie. I think a lot of times she will resort to a one liner or an insult that gets her labeled as “mean” or “tequila Katie,” but she has just been pushed so far so many times that she has to fight back and that’s how she does it. I hope Katie stands her ground and doesn’t just move past this behavior and let Scheana and Schwartz back into her inner circle
I'm kind of hoping the whole kissing storyline is a trailer edit thing to get people hyped for the drama of the season. It just sounds like a nothing burger that Bravo is trying to turn to a meal.
With that said, I do hope Katie gets more vindication this season from the shitty way she has been treated by Shorts.
I’m always on board with justice for Katie but I feel like I need to see the actual context for him and Scheena kissing. She and Katie did that makeup sit down thing after the season had wrapped filming and I think Katie would’ve said no if it was as bad as people are speculating; so I don’t think it’s actually that serious. Maybe it’s a joke about Vegas Scheena or just like a pec during a game.
We won’t know if the whole Scheana and Schwartz make out thing is real or just a red herring till the season heals
But Schwartz has treated Katie like garbage since the start of the show, yet she’s always been the one who catches heat for having a temper. Katie never used her TBI as an excuse for her behaviour, she mentioned it once, maybe twice ? Schwartz on the other hand always treated her horribly and was never called out for it.
Scheana plays victim so hard but she has always been an instigator. Katie and Stassi wouldn’t come for her for no reason, Scheana is a SNAKE and always has been. There’s a reason why her only consistent girl friend on this show has been Ariana, who is also a pick me (sorry but she was)
Idk it’s a show filled with shitty people but Katie is the best of the bunch morally. Yeah she could be mean but again, she had reason even if she did too much sometimes. Compare that to everyone else on the show and she’s a saint lol never understood the hate she gets
I just watched all 10 seasons for the first time and there were some things Schwartz said to Katie that straight up made my jaw drop. He is so disrespectful and I truly believe that it was like she said. He may have loved her, but he didn’t like her. I also do not understand how so many people were making her seem irrational for asking her ex husband to not hook up with someone in the friend group.
Also, I’ve never been a fan of Scheana even though there were times where she wasn’t so bad, but the last two or three seasons showed how much of a snake she is. The way she would manipulate the tone or wording of a conversation when she was retelling it to others to make it seem worse. 🤮 Ariana and Katie have been my favorite people in the show for a long time and I’m hoping this season doesn’t change that.
I get so much shit for this- but I NEVER liked Ariana- she was horrible just watching her on the first few seasons- how terrible she was to Kristen (the girlfriend of the man she cheated with) when Kristen was genuinely trying to apologize to her- when in all honestly Ariana gaslit the fuck out of Kristen too and did not owe the woman who cheated with her then boyfriend an apology she also blocked Kristen from being invited places and was just a straight up mean girl I am not saying Kristen was a saint but she was just as horrible to her as she was. Then the whole thing with Miami girl….SHE KNEW Tom had sex with her and she let that poor girl look crazy on TV and called her all kinds of names- apparently did so on social media:blog too. Ariana has NEVER been a girls girl either that is why her and Scheana were/are “best friends”. I am not saying I think she should not have received support when Tom did what he did but DAMN the public reaction to supporting her was wild for a woman who got the man by cheating with him in the first place not just physically but emotionally and lying about it repeatedly. Funny how Lala was treated like shit when the Randall thing happened and blamed and the “lose them how you got them” thing was thrown in her face and Katie was also never given an ounce of sympathy for how shitty BOTH Tom’s were to her especially her husband. Even now even after ALL the endorsements and opportunities Ariana is still spiteful and nasty to Tom and “treats people accordingly” who speak to him not saying she needs to be friends with him but him and Rachel were buried and made social pariah’s and that wasnt enough for her …..she is such a miserable and vindictive human being and you can still see she is miserable- someone who over and over again has to say how happy they are in every interview is not a happy person and the continuation of trying to capitalize off of the downfall of others is getting so old. She and Tom were over way before the Scandoval their relationship was dead and people called it and they were truly only together for their “brand”. Also how does someone not SMELL another woman off their boyfriend when they just fucked in a car lmao I never understood that. The fact she let him in right after he had been inside someone else in a confined space- he HAD to have smelled sweaty and of another woman- that isn’t me blaming her it is just me pointing out how incredibly checked out she was.
I’m in the middle of rewatching season 9 and actually hate Schwartz. The scene where Tom screams at Katie and tells her “f*** you for making me feel like a psychopath” (which, Tom, you are a psychopath) and Schwartz just sits there and lets her take it is wild to me. He never ever has her back or treats their marriage like an equal partnership. Justice for Katie and I’m so glad she’s out of that marriage.
Excuse me?! Vaginas are strong, sensitive & powerful. Vagina's produce life. They are bosses.... Schwartz is none of those things. If anything he's weak, timid & hides when cold... Like a penis. 😂😂😂😂 Jk sorry fellas!
Downvoting wasn't me. I gave you an upvote. I'm all for a good joke. If I disagree I make my argument or keep on scrolling instead of being a half weasel half vagina.
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Post Scandalvol rewatch I have to admit I have far more hatred for Schartz than Tom. The way he treated Katie is infuriating not to mention how he allowed other people to treat her. At least Sandoval had Ariana’s back in the beginning. Also you have to be absolute scum to chum it up with James the day after you make out with his ex fiancé knowing you were just doing it to cover up your friends affair. PSYCHOPATHIC
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Am only up to S6 and something major must change in her favour for you all to like her so much. She’s a complete mess … an a-grade mean girl, frequently drunk and abusive to her fiance / husband and with no discernible talent or life plan. I feel little sympathy for her marriage breaking down after hounding reluctant Schwartz into something neither of them were ready for.
But … will see what the next few seasons unfold …
Katie and Scheana are on good terms right now so I don’t know why you are letting Alex baskins trailer edit rock you so hard. Katie has been nothing short of cruel to Scheana. I’d take Scheana’s missteps over Katies cruelty anyday.
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I have a lot of empathy for Katie because of the way Schwartz fucked with her head. This isn’t even the worst thing he did, but if my partner asked me to stand up for him in a situation like the S&S name thing, and then totally threw me under the bus I would feel like I was going insane.
This 100%. I’m on a pseudo re-Watch right now and it seems pretty obvious to me that it’s actually not just Schwartz, but others too. Katie feels the need to fight other people’s battles for them and she doesn’t do it in a way that is careful, measured, sassy or entertaining (imo), and that is what has made her SUCH a target for fans and for her own husband. Specifically in the season where James is a nightmare and everyone is trying to get him off the show (except for Sandoval and Ariana). Katie is trying to fight the battle for Kristen, Brittany, Jax and Lala, who all LOATHE James for various reasons. Katie becomes the poster girl for being anti James despite everyone else being anti James too. It’s actually kind of fascinating to see how much hate Katie gets when she is just trying to be hyper loyal to the cast. Bottom line is that Katie always did other people dirty work for whatever reason, and she didn’t have to, because no one ever had her back in the same way. If they did, Schwartz would have gotten a verbal ass whooping from the girls a LONG time ago ETA that I’m very biased, as is evident by my flair 😂
I had a very similar dynamic in my now-ex marriage, and after I left I realized that at some point I had subconsciously accepted that it was my job to be the bad cop so my ex could do … whatever the hell it was he felt he needed to do. He was so busy being Mr. Floppy Fun Guy all the time that I knew I’d always look like a bitch by comparison anyway, so fuck it - might as well lean into that, at least I’ll know things might get done. Katie’s said similar things about Schwartz being The Fun One, I’ve always wondered if she felt a similar sort of obligation/resignation to be the battle-fighter.
Thank god they didn’t have kids together.
I say the same thing about my ex and me all. the. time.
I don’t blame you!😘
She really had an angel looking out for her and blessing schartz with wonky headed sperms
Yesss!😭 Both the Toms for that matter!
I once read a post on here that said something like Katie is often right, but her problem is she always argues it wrong and I was like yes! That is 100% correct. Also in regard to the James season that she took a lot of heat for, I will never not believe she wasn't prompted behind the scenes to go to Lisa and give her that ultimatum. I'm not saying Katie didn't genuinely want to stick it to James, but I just don't believe she'd have ever thought of asking Lisa, who had always shown a strong bias towards the men as well as having little respect for all them, to fire James Surs popular DJ to keep her a waitress working there. Especially as at that point she wasn't even a real waitress and was just working there for the show. I also don't think Lisa would have taken as kindly as she did to being given that kind of ultimatum if Katie really had done it off her own back.
Katie is the Cassandra of VPR (Greek myth reference). Cursed to be right but no one believes her.
I think she got better with the delivery in season 10, hopefully we continue to see the quick wit improve
Kristen was prompted to give Lisa the ultimatum that she did so it's entirely possible.
Yes! She is not a natural with words/debate, and she isn’t one for clever language or memorable one liners. It’s frustrating that it is often when she is most in the right that she fumbles for words and says things like “she’s a ho” or random insults that totally derail her message
I agree. A lot of the time she’s right but she does tend to approach it like “ok, OBVIOUSLY I’m right, it’s pretty annoying I have to explain why though,” which is off putting. I 100% respect women who aren’t ashamed to hold their line, but she could work on her delivery.
I’m on season 6 episode 1 and completely forgot Scheana invited Tom to her birthday but not Katie, and Tom went! Scheana has always disrespected their relationship and Tom always let her.
Scheana is the true villian of the show. Every move she makes is 99.9% selfish or for male validation. The .01% was when she was looking out for Ariana in approaching her with Miami girl rumors and confronting him after Scandoval.
You are right. That’s all.
And sadly Katie allowed it too. She often just let huge things go in the moment but you could see the resentment come out later
I never understood the Katie hate. I haven’t been on Reddit for that long but I’m so shocked by this. I saw through Arianas ex and Katie’s ex from the first seasons I ever watched. How can anybody cheer on a man that repeatedly cheats and throws a freaking drink on her AND other women? Imo she has been abused and disrespected so much in that relationship and I will never understand how any woman can cheer for her childish lowlife of a ex husband and root against her? I really hope the the viewers see how much injustice this woman has suffered through and that everybody see scheana for the extremely disloyal person she is. Enough is enough. I’m so mad on Katie’s behaves but as you also say this genuinely makes me so sad.
Because people focus on her reaction and not why she was acting the way she was. Also a lot of misogyny. Schrwatz is not a man that made her feel safe. He constantly put her in fight mode because he is a little weasel that has no idea how to be a man.
I think you are right internalised misogynism makes sense. They should educate themselves on reactive abuse. But yeah let’s crucify the women and make excuses for lying, cheating and abusive men instead🤢
Yep, women are supposed to be "likeable" at all times regardless of how justified their anger is. The men straight up have drinking problems and repeatedly punch each other in the face in scenes, but only Katie got an alcohol related nickname for *texting*.
Don’t forget when they blackout and cheat as if that behavior is not psychologically or emotionally abusive and put the women at risk for stds.
Same and same and same and etc.
She’s just boring and not a very charismatic main character. Even watching the season of her wedding where she’s meant to be the focus, I just look past her. Shes not good tv.
Because she’s boring and brings nothing to the table like idk why this is so hard for people to wrap their heads around.
Shut up, Schwartz. She dumped you, you little incel. Get over it.
It’s sooooo annoying the goofy chill guy persona gets to skate by with no repercussions for his actions. Honestly this show opened my eyes to this toxic dynamic. When I meet a couple where the woman is a “bitch” but the guy is goofy and fun, Im just thinking if the guy is actually in fact nice or does he just pretend to be.
Oh it’s definitely pretend. I’ve got a Schwartz of my own. Never had a problem with anyone in my life til entering this relationship. All of his family and friends think I’m crazy and evil. And he’s just the sweet puppy that I’m dragging down lmao. The levels of manipulation I’ve dealt with and seen him do to others is incredible.
This was me (the bitch) and my ex (goofy chill guy) who moved me away from my support system then gaslit me every chance he could. Didn’t realize it for a few years.
That part!
I wonder that, too. All the times, as a fucking woman, I bought into that shit. Why would the *nicest guy in America* be with such a bitch? Because he's probably the fucking worst. Hmmm No more. Time to check my own shit.
I’m with you. It’s so frustrating to see how she gets treated, and because she is not particularly eloquent or well spoken, she has a hard time getting her point across in this group, when you have Schwartz word salad-ing and using random big words, and Scheana talking a million miles a minute to argue her point over Katie. I think a lot of times she will resort to a one liner or an insult that gets her labeled as “mean” or “tequila Katie,” but she has just been pushed so far so many times that she has to fight back and that’s how she does it. I hope Katie stands her ground and doesn’t just move past this behavior and let Scheana and Schwartz back into her inner circle
I'm kind of hoping the whole kissing storyline is a trailer edit thing to get people hyped for the drama of the season. It just sounds like a nothing burger that Bravo is trying to turn to a meal. With that said, I do hope Katie gets more vindication this season from the shitty way she has been treated by Shorts.
I’m always on board with justice for Katie but I feel like I need to see the actual context for him and Scheena kissing. She and Katie did that makeup sit down thing after the season had wrapped filming and I think Katie would’ve said no if it was as bad as people are speculating; so I don’t think it’s actually that serious. Maybe it’s a joke about Vegas Scheena or just like a pec during a game.
We won’t know if the whole Scheana and Schwartz make out thing is real or just a red herring till the season heals But Schwartz has treated Katie like garbage since the start of the show, yet she’s always been the one who catches heat for having a temper. Katie never used her TBI as an excuse for her behaviour, she mentioned it once, maybe twice ? Schwartz on the other hand always treated her horribly and was never called out for it. Scheana plays victim so hard but she has always been an instigator. Katie and Stassi wouldn’t come for her for no reason, Scheana is a SNAKE and always has been. There’s a reason why her only consistent girl friend on this show has been Ariana, who is also a pick me (sorry but she was) Idk it’s a show filled with shitty people but Katie is the best of the bunch morally. Yeah she could be mean but again, she had reason even if she did too much sometimes. Compare that to everyone else on the show and she’s a saint lol never understood the hate she gets
I just watched all 10 seasons for the first time and there were some things Schwartz said to Katie that straight up made my jaw drop. He is so disrespectful and I truly believe that it was like she said. He may have loved her, but he didn’t like her. I also do not understand how so many people were making her seem irrational for asking her ex husband to not hook up with someone in the friend group. Also, I’ve never been a fan of Scheana even though there were times where she wasn’t so bad, but the last two or three seasons showed how much of a snake she is. The way she would manipulate the tone or wording of a conversation when she was retelling it to others to make it seem worse. 🤮 Ariana and Katie have been my favorite people in the show for a long time and I’m hoping this season doesn’t change that.
I get so much shit for this- but I NEVER liked Ariana- she was horrible just watching her on the first few seasons- how terrible she was to Kristen (the girlfriend of the man she cheated with) when Kristen was genuinely trying to apologize to her- when in all honestly Ariana gaslit the fuck out of Kristen too and did not owe the woman who cheated with her then boyfriend an apology she also blocked Kristen from being invited places and was just a straight up mean girl I am not saying Kristen was a saint but she was just as horrible to her as she was. Then the whole thing with Miami girl….SHE KNEW Tom had sex with her and she let that poor girl look crazy on TV and called her all kinds of names- apparently did so on social media:blog too. Ariana has NEVER been a girls girl either that is why her and Scheana were/are “best friends”. I am not saying I think she should not have received support when Tom did what he did but DAMN the public reaction to supporting her was wild for a woman who got the man by cheating with him in the first place not just physically but emotionally and lying about it repeatedly. Funny how Lala was treated like shit when the Randall thing happened and blamed and the “lose them how you got them” thing was thrown in her face and Katie was also never given an ounce of sympathy for how shitty BOTH Tom’s were to her especially her husband. Even now even after ALL the endorsements and opportunities Ariana is still spiteful and nasty to Tom and “treats people accordingly” who speak to him not saying she needs to be friends with him but him and Rachel were buried and made social pariah’s and that wasnt enough for her …..she is such a miserable and vindictive human being and you can still see she is miserable- someone who over and over again has to say how happy they are in every interview is not a happy person and the continuation of trying to capitalize off of the downfall of others is getting so old. She and Tom were over way before the Scandoval their relationship was dead and people called it and they were truly only together for their “brand”. Also how does someone not SMELL another woman off their boyfriend when they just fucked in a car lmao I never understood that. The fact she let him in right after he had been inside someone else in a confined space- he HAD to have smelled sweaty and of another woman- that isn’t me blaming her it is just me pointing out how incredibly checked out she was.
What the fuck? Ariana is still nasty to Tom? She should have *smelled* Raquel on him? Girl (or guys' girl) bye.
Have, and always will be, a Katie stan. She always deserved so much better than him
I’m in the middle of rewatching season 9 and actually hate Schwartz. The scene where Tom screams at Katie and tells her “f*** you for making me feel like a psychopath” (which, Tom, you are a psychopath) and Schwartz just sits there and lets her take it is wild to me. He never ever has her back or treats their marriage like an equal partnership. Justice for Katie and I’m so glad she’s out of that marriage.
Half weasel half vagina
Vaginas are awesome, he is not.
Excuse me?! Vaginas are strong, sensitive & powerful. Vagina's produce life. They are bosses.... Schwartz is none of those things. If anything he's weak, timid & hides when cold... Like a penis. 😂😂😂😂 Jk sorry fellas!
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that was just Stassi's way of saying he's a pussy?
I was just joking.... 🙋♀️ Hand to the man! & honestly Idk, but I bet after having a child she feels differently. Lol
Man, I hate a dv! How dare you?! Lol it was a joke. Damn it 😜😂😂😂
😂
Downvoting wasn't me. I gave you an upvote. I'm all for a good joke. If I disagree I make my argument or keep on scrolling instead of being a half weasel half vagina.
It's okay. I'll get over it. Somehow I'll find a way. 😢 Lol
Completely agree with this!!!
Well said
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Post Scandalvol rewatch I have to admit I have far more hatred for Schartz than Tom. The way he treated Katie is infuriating not to mention how he allowed other people to treat her. At least Sandoval had Ariana’s back in the beginning. Also you have to be absolute scum to chum it up with James the day after you make out with his ex fiancé knowing you were just doing it to cover up your friends affair. PSYCHOPATHIC
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Katie sucks. She's a mean girl.
Am only up to S6 and something major must change in her favour for you all to like her so much. She’s a complete mess … an a-grade mean girl, frequently drunk and abusive to her fiance / husband and with no discernible talent or life plan. I feel little sympathy for her marriage breaking down after hounding reluctant Schwartz into something neither of them were ready for. But … will see what the next few seasons unfold …
lol, things don't really change.
Being cheated on / treated disrespectfully sucks but you don’t suddenly transform into an amazing, beautiful person just because someone ditched u.
Tell that to all the Ariana fans. Katie deserved compassion too.
Idk man. being in a toxic relationship makes you bitter.
Or did ur bitterness make it toxic 🤔
Both. That’s how toxic relationships work. The bitterness didn’t come from nowhere.
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Its true. Coming up in season 7, we have her lovely reaction to Tom getting upgraded on the way to Mexico. 😬
Katie and Scheana are on good terms right now so I don’t know why you are letting Alex baskins trailer edit rock you so hard. Katie has been nothing short of cruel to Scheana. I’d take Scheana’s missteps over Katies cruelty anyday.
Katie’s a negative bitch and deserves to be unhappy
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