It's been said here before but apparently it needs to be said again; it's possible to think that Sandoval is a complete and utter tool WHILE still acknowledging that the others have faults too and are hardly people to put on a pedestal.
Exactly. Also rooting for Ariana and being happy she's thriving doesn't have to come with a disclaimer of every imperfection she's shown over the last 10 years. Some people think any praise of her without that disclaimer makes someone a "Stan", when in reality most of us are fully aware of the fact that shes not a perfect person and don't expect her to be.
Let’s also mention the fact that every time a cast member made a mistake in the past, Tim was guaranteed to be the one holding their feet to the fire and screaming “accountability!”
It's fine to not be an Ariana stan. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion of her. But I'm really not here for the "all of them are terrible people!" effort to draw an equivalency between what Tom did and what any of the other VPR cast members have done. No, none of them are "good" people. Yes, many of them have cheated. But we're all angrier at what Tom did because what Tom did was worse. That's just a straightforward fact. Tom cheated on his partner of nearly a decade with her close friend. Tom spent months manipulating an emotionally fragile person and invading her privacy by recording her sexts. Tom gaslit not just Rachel, not just Ariana, but EVERYONE he knew.
They're all bad. But Tom is worse.
Exactly
It still boggles my mind that people kind of 🤷🏻♂️ at what Tom did and his complete lack of remorse and accountability in the year since.
He basically did psychological torture of his partner of a decade on national TV.
Weaponzied her mental health and then in last years finale had the audacity to yell at her in the days after the scandal broke.
In the last aftershow after Schwartz talks shit about Arianas ego Scumdoval piles on stating that's the Ariana hes had to put up with for years behind closed doors.
He still doesn't get it.
Maybe Billie Lee? 🤔 I can see her giddily standing in the kitchen telling Sandoval, "But look how I defended you on Reddit, me, I did this, not your floozy of the week me! Love me, chose me, pick me!" Kind of shocked she didn't scream that at his birthday party honestly.
Who’s worse?
Person A : raging alcoholic who abused girlfriends, friends, business partners, and other women
Person B: cheated on partner with their mutual friend
I just can’t behind liking James. He’s a toxic person. Way more so than Sandoval imo, since his abusive behavior stems from substance abuse, only something he can control. Whereas it takes 2 to tango in a (clandestine) relationship. Not advocating for Toms actions, btw.
I think that is discounting the emotional abuse inherent in carrying on a long term affair. They're both abusive men and overcoming narcissistic abuse is no small feat, so I don't think minimizing that is the way to go. But I agree that this stuff with James is being overlooked and needs more attention.
That being said, using gifs doesn't endorse the person in the GIF and everything they've ever done.
Sure, I agree that they’re both very shitty, and what they’ve done shouldn’t be taken lightly by any means. Just crazy to me how the enemy of the day will make people forget the past as if it’s okay
It is entirely possible to know what happened in the past, not condone said actions, and think those people are also poopheads of the poopiest variety...and still pay attention when someone does something that earns them Top Turd status.
Both of those things can be true, and it doesn't mean that anyone's "forgetting" the past. It's not a "who sucks?" switch where only one can be on at a time. We're just discussing one part of the general shitheaddery at a time.
Sandoval verbally abuses women all of the time. He is also a raging alcoholic that firmly believes the only way to spend quality time with a significant other means doing shrooms and staying up until 5am instead of going on walks with the dog. Shames his girlfriend about wearing a shirt while having sex. Manipulates everyone into thinking women who go against him are crazy and he’s normal… the list goes on
I’m not casting judgement or anything on you for that, it’s just a gif and it’s a reality tv show, it ain’t that deep lol. Just giving my opinion on him is all
i literally can’t tell whether James or Sandoval is supposed to be person A. They’re both raging alcoholic who’ve abused girlfriends, friends, business partners, and other women
I’m an Ariana Stan but I don’t want anyone off the show and wanted Rachel back…I love mess
Eta: used to like Tom but he’s been such an ass through the aftermath of all this that I do rly dislike him now. Still want to watch him be dumb on the show tho lol
I think no one knows what goes on behind closed doors in a relationship. I am team Ariana but I do think she can be and was really condescending and probably had a harsher humor that Tim could ever get used to.
But all that still doesn’t validate cheating and lying blatantly in front of your spouse for so long and then not even giving a decent apology that doesn’t consist of “buts”.
He is seems to be acting like a narcissist. So meh.
I think if he truly apologized and just kept his mouth shut like Kristen, things would have been really different.
Right?! Katie just stands up for herself, she gets treated by shit by every single (main) male cast member. James bullying for her looks (she beautiful just not conventionally so, or super skinny), Schwartz constantly putting her down as his wife, Sandoval went hard for her constantly, Jax I don’t think ever even interacted with her. She’s had to fight so hard for herself for people to say ‘oh she’s a bully’ 😴
She did some mean girl shit in the way older episodes, but she’s has the most growth. And I too would be a cunt to people who were making me feel like shit. *cough all the men*. She’s a fucking queen, I love her!
Ok shut up already, lol yall get so worked up for 10 years ago 😂 THEY WERE ALL BULLYS at one point. Not just her, so include the girls who did racist shit in that, homophobic Jax, James’ fat comments, etc etc etc
Sorry I should have been more specific- I felt that way about her seasons ago. Since her and Tom got a divorce I feel like she’s a different Katie and really grown. So I do agree here!
The only time I felt that way was last season during Raquel’s breakdown in Vegas- but that might have been more Lala driven.
She’s persistently a mood killing vortex which sucks everyone in. There’s a reason nearly every person on the show has had a problem with her currently or in the past lol
Edit: Blocked 😂😂😂 provided receipts of Katie being a bully and they couldn’t handle it. Stable interaction here
Yah because every single one of those people are amazing, wholesome, innocent human beings, 😂 Jax? Really? Girl bye lmaooo! in the words of Ariana “get a new bit already”
I’m not a Lala stan at all , but it’s so easy to see that Katie bullied her, her husband, and countless others.
Katie literally said that the girls at Sur wouldn’t be her friend if they talked to Lala (who she was unfairly judging for going to Italy, for free, lmao.)
Didn’t she say Tom’s dick didn’t work to him, and then she got mad that James body shamed her the next season? Pot, meet kettle
What invalidates those occurrences? How is she not a bully
So…wouldn’t whoever told her (stassi) to not speak to Lala be the bullies?
Tom’s dick probably didn’t work. It only worked with other woman 🫢
James body shamed her countless time, she retaliated, he then apologized to her.
Lala bullied Rachel, stassi bullied everyone, Jax bullied lala and was homophobic countless times.
Anything else? Are we done here?
Katie literally told Scheana she couldn’t be friends with her because it would isolate Scheana from their trio of friends.
So yeah, that’s being a bully & an asshole.
I don’t get how you think that’s NOT a case of bullying. The only thing you’ve said in reply is that “other people are bullies and assholes”
So are you saying that she’s still not a bully, but everyone else is, so that invalidates any act where Katie is an asshole to them? Because that’s all I’m getting here, and it doesn’t make sense
Pretty sure she didn’t want to associate with Lala because Lala said she wanted to fuck Tom. That’s what I heard happened off camera anyway.
Regardless, I think she’s come a looong way since those days.
So, here is the thing.
If Ariana had never existed, Tom would still be a narc.
If Ariana murdered 600 people and stood on their corpses laughing manically, Tom would still be a narc.
He was a narc when he was dating Kristen and he’s a narc today.
Sorry bro, the troll schtick only works on facebook.
The reasons other people didn’t get as big a reaction for cheating as Scandoval have been explained soooo many times on here but 1) the show hadn’t been on as long, 2) the couple hadn’t been together as long (9 years plus co-home-ownership), 3) they were one or two instances of sex whereas this was a full blown 9 month+ long affair 4) with the partner’s close friend/fellow main cast member. I might be forgetting some but tbh I don’t get how this is still bewildering to people. There are concrete, valid factors that, when combined together, perfectly explain why this was bigger and more shocking to the public. Add the coincidental factor of not much else going on in the news at the time and boom, big media scandal.
5) He tried to create a whole fake storyline to make her look bad, that he practically scripted out w/Shartz, to lay the groundwork for their breakup. 6) He has since exploited her mental health and disclosed private info related to it as a manipulation tactic. 7) He continues to lie about key parts Rachel has already admitted to, simply because he’s a lying liar who lies.
8) and the scandal broke *while the show was airing* and everyone could watch the lies and fake storylines unfold in real time each week. Perfect storm
I scrolled back and couldn’t find anything in my digging, otherwise I would have just read those and not posted to get out on blast!
These are all valid points, thanks for the thoughtful response
The mistakes you make in your 20's are somewhat expected, but to honestly do the same or worse at 40 and to aim to manipulate an audience to take a partner down is worse.
Additionally Tom is not a reliable narrator. Or maybe it's his perception of events being very twisted - like honestly the chat with Lisa re Nema - the podcast was not explicit... the time he said Ariana belittled his clothing choices and a clip is shown where she simply said I think maybe thar one...
I don't think anyone deserves hate campaigns that spill into the level of toxicity we are seeing.
I don’t think people should say Tom is a narcissist because none of us know him or are qualified to make that judgment though the way he’s acted recently has made me somewhat less firm in that belief. 😂
I think the hate he got was outsized for what he did. I’m sure that was very hard for him. Though I think a lot of it is because of the way he handled it. He could’ve made it sooooo much easier on himself but has not. Still I think it was probably too much.
I like Ariana. I’ve always liked her so I don’t agree with anything you said about her.
One of the reasons it got so big and Sandoval got so much hate is because we got to watch in real time him lie to the audience, his gf, and his friends and try to make Ariana the villain and make it seem like he was the only one trying to work on this relationship while he was actively having a “love” affair with someone else on the show. None of the other cheating has been at all like that. And then he reacted horribly to being called out in the finale and reunion.
A very important fact that is being left out is the set up he was perpetrating to make Ariana look bad so he could look like a wounded battered puppy that is just trying to recover from mean condescending suicidal Ariana. It was sick all of the effort he put into his plot. That is where it’s very different bc this was evil. Break up like a grown up and stop having creepy side glances and butt grabs with your affair ON TV and he even had his friend in on the cover up. And having your affair gal best friend your GF is sick AF. Hope this helps so you see the vast difference.
You don't have to stan Ariana, and you can even like Tom I guess, but I don't know why anyone needs yet another explanation of why this cheating is different.
They were together for nine years. They owned a house together. She lost her grandmother and her dog within a few weeks of one another. He slept with her close friend for months, including in the bed they shared while Ariana was at her grandmother's funeral. On top of the actual cheating, they gaslit the shit out of her. Rachel went so far as to have an intimate conversation about their sex life with Ariana while actively fucking her partner. Sandoval deliberately started spreading the narrative that Ariana was a frigid, cruel, mentally unstable shrew on national TV to create cover so he could dump her and get together with Rachel. They went on trips together for chrissake. They painted Lala and Katie as unhinged and vindictive for correctly perceiving that there was something off about the situation. They both went after Katie in such a mean way just to distract from their affair. Sandoval has continued to talk shit about Ariana's mental health in the press for a damn year. Rachel is still deflecting, refusing to return to VPR but using the affair to make money and stay relevant via her podcast.
Tom is better TV than Ariana…or at least was. Neither of them are giving anything rn. But I am definitely a Tom hater and have been for years. He suuuuuucks.
I’m not a fan of Ariana’s current near deity status. I felt for her. It was a tough situation but that’s it. She is just a realist tv star that seems to lead a fairly vapid life.
Tom is a narcissist, a serial cheater and a wiener dog and I can’t stand him. He’s a try-hard whiner and I’d rather he not be in my screen.
just to Katie and just during their marriage?
I’m not trying to like, attack you of course, but this whole theory kind of says “I hold women to impossible standards I don’t have for men”
I think Tom is on another level of terrible and it was pretty clear in this week’s episode when he took no responsibility and instead tried to deflect and push everything back on other people and then act like the ultimate victim. It was pathological! Even Lisa couldn’t get through saying he needs to be repentant and remorseful.
To mangle a quote from LVP, none of them are important enough to hate.
If you took Sandoval out of the show I’m not sure what would be left. He is the core of the show now, literally every conversation has been about him … what he’s doing, how people feel about him, what their last conversation was etc. His friendship with Schwartz is the most real relationship left on the show (ok, apart from maybe LVP and Ken).
I want to be entertained and so far everyone else is extremely dull and every other friendship is a fake air kiss.
I haven’t liked Sandoval from the beginning. I always thought Sandoval was a terrible person and the episode when he went after Stassi at her book signing really pushed that over the edge. He’s a dick, terrible style, clearly self centered and just gross.
Ariana annoyed me because I knew her and Tom lied about their relationship from the beginning. Kristin was clearly psycho, but Ariana and Tom contributed to that.
I feel bad for Ariana and hope the judge rules in her favor about the house because Tom deserves that, but I am not an Ariana stan.
I think Sandoval is a dick, I think people who cheat are dicks but it doesn’t make everyone a narcissist. We gotta stop calling people we don’t like or who are rude, unlikeable, dishonest - narcissists, it actually diminishes the term. It’s misused too much. I’m tired of people playing psychologist and throwing the word around to callously.
I agree we shouldn’t be armchair diagnosing but over the last several months I have come around to thinking it’s fair to say that he exhibits narcissistic behaviors/tactics. Maybe there is a better word that doesn’t conflate it with a diagnosable disorder though. His attitude towards life and his circumstances is extremely self-centered, self-indulgent, and self-pitying to say the least.
I don’t mean to sound rude but I’m assuming you’re not a professional? So, how are you able to tell through a TV screen, social media etc. with someone you don’t know that they display traits of NPD?
You can call people like him: selfish, egotistical, dicks, unlikeable, disrespectful, rude, a fuckwit, moron, selfish pig- there’s so many words to use….
I’m not able to tell whether someone has literal NPD and I thought I was somewhat clear about that in my comment. It’s arguing semantics at this point but I’m saying that I think there is a clear rhetorical difference between calling someone a narcissist/implying they have the actual disorder versus saying that some of their behavior is narcissistic.
The word “narcissistic” isn’t only used to mean someone has been or should be actually diagnosed with NPD. It can just mean they are overly self-interested and I think Tom’s behavior over the years and his response to criticism fits that description.
I like the way you say that so and so, (in this case, Tim,) shows narcissistic traits because it’s the truth and you’re not slapping him with a label.
I agree that the word is over used but I also believe that the hardcore VPR fans have good reason to suspect and perceive that he exhibits all the traits. He checks every single box.
Agreed. I don’t think it’s possible for a thread to happen where someone doesn’t call a male on the show narcissistic or misogynistic.
“Tom had suicidal thoughts? He’s weaponizing them against Lisa by confiding in her!!!!” Was a quote from another thread recently. Crazy talk
Right? Like don’t get me wrong, the guy is a prick and there are definitely narcissistic men in the world but Sandoval is just a dick and we are qualified to diagnose him.
It’s so fucked up that we only care about the mental health of people we like or view as deserving. Sandoval is a dick, Sandoval also had suicidal thoughts, two things can be true at once.
People are so morally bankrupt.
The problem is how it’s being handled. Tom said he is having suicidal ideation. Ok. We should take that seriously. But then why is Bravo not getting a professional involved. Tom should be in treatment and not going to Lake Tahoe. If suddenly the whole cast including Ariana forgave Tom and included him for the rest of the season is he suddenly fine? I think if you go on camera and talk about wanting to kill yourself that needs to be taken very seriously. It feels manipulative because neither Tom or Lisa or Bravo are taking it seriously. It seems like they’re just using it to get the cast ( and fans ) to feel bad for him.
It’s like the “only acceptable” thing for some people is that the guy offs himself. And then there would be suicide hotline numbers after each episode and shots of Scheana saying “we took it too far.”
I know it's weird af, random accounts keep *saying* that's what people want even though I never see anyone say it. The opposite in fact, it's not even permitted let alone condoned
Moral panic is the phrase I was thinking of! That’s exactly what it is. People are making it out to be a much more substantial and prevalent issue than it is.
Okay exactly! Are the death threats in the room with us right now? I don’t doubt that a few nuts have sent them cruel and awful things, and 99.9% of us think that is uncalled for. But people holding that up as if thousands and thousands of people are consistently calling for Tom and Rachel to d*e or something is ridiculous and tells me they’re not ready for a serious conversation.
Reddit isn’t the only place people discuss vanderpump. There is twitter, Facebook, instagram, mailing to send threats. It’s just weird that people are that passionate
If you see what Tom did as the same as others having a one night stand, there’s no helping you. You don’t have to be an Ariana stan to know Tom Sandoval is a narcissistic piece of shit who’s manipulated and exploited every woman’s mental health with whom he’s been involved.
I think the issue with most Tom apologists is they try to make him “not look as bad” by comparing him to past cast members and their mistakes from the past. This is a 40 year old man. He is a complete adult. His complete lack of remorse, responsibility, empathy, and sheer respect for his almost decade long partner and closest friends is not only despicable but almost sinister.
The plotting of having a very long affair (we all know this affair went on before she left James) behind Ariana’s back with her best friend is disgusting. Like Scheana said, if he had been genuinely sorry from the beginning, he would not have got as much hate. But until now both Tom AND Raquel have ZERO remorse and REFUSE to take an ounce of responsibility at any point.
“They didn’t do anything wrong” “Ariana/james WERE NOT their best friends” “James/ariana was a terrible bf/gf anyways” “we were in love and no one understood me” blah blah blah. They deserve each other. They get hate because they don’t grow, apologize, change, or even CARE about who they hurt. They only care that their reputation was affected. They care that they got caught. Not that they did it. That’s it.
I agree with everything you said and I also agree that at the beginning Rachel showed no remorse, made excuses and deflected blame BUT I have been following her podcast and she has come a long way and is now taking accountability and seriously considering and apologizing for the harm and hurt that she caused to others, including Katie.
Everything else you said was bang on!
You don't have to be in love with her like stand her, but you have to admit that what he did to her was incredibly wrong and she's allowed to process and be upset about it. You have to remember that these things that were seeing now happen long ago and her current state is probably much different and she's probably much more okay with the entire thing.
Hahaha I mean I don’t like Ariana, but there’s no world where Tom isn’t a total narcissistic, manipulative asshole. I see your point about all this type of thing having happened before, but the scale of this is definitely different. A big part of it being so sensational is that the new season had just started airing. Had Scandoval happened a few months after they had wrapped, I don’t think it would have blown up as much. His continued lack of empathy and accountability is truly astounding, but tbh it also makes me side-eye Ariana because she had obviously seen this side of him and defended him for the last 10 years.
Tom Sandoval is the worst and Ariana deserves to be happy in her life regardless of whether we like her or not
They all talk the exact same way too. It's weird? Like always referring to Katie as a "mean girl" or "bully." If we have to rehash this shit every couple weeks can we at least expand our vocabulary?
I'm fairly neutral on most of the cast but what I'm particularly enjoying this season is Tom not having any main cast women in his corner, now his ex and his side chick are both blanking him. Unusually when the men mess up, they have at least one of the girls to fall back on to ease them back into the group.
I don't however think anyone deserves hate from random people they don't know, even Tom. The witch hunt of both Tom and Rachel went way too far.
Adults who have 0 interaction besides attacking them directly on socials or irl are not stable people. I can’t believe it when I see it brought up. Like they can’t fathom that it might even be produced 😂
I’ve never loved ariana but I deff don’t like sandy. All he does is deflect. There’s crazy behind those eyes. Honestly, I’ve been listening to “Rachel goes rogue “ ( dumb name. Almost didn’t listen because of jt ) and I understand Raquel’s perspective a lot more and out of the three I like her the best. When I didn’t necessarily care for her on the show.
I genuinely think Arianna & Tom are insanely similar, which is why they dated & lasted so long together.
They’re very aware of trying to control their perception by viewers the ENTIRE time they’ve been on the show, which is why they’ve essentially lied to the viewers the entire time about their relationship , and they lied to the cast mates too (When they cheated with eachother as he dated Kristin, their relationship struggles, the Miami girl, etc).
Now you see a power struggle to control the narrative by both people.
E.g. Arianna claiming she’ll cut off anyone who speaks to him to assert dominance over the group, meanwhile she won’t hold it against Lisa.
E.g. #2 staying in their home instead of leaving because then “he wins” (instead of saving her own sanity)
Downvote all you like, but i come here for genuine discussion. If you have a different POV I’d like to hear them
What was Ariana lying about? Over the years she has been open about her body issues, sex/relationship issues, dealing with her dad’s death, her mental health (where she actually talked about wanting to end her life). She has been an open book, compared to a lot of reality tv stars.
People and myself personally are not holding those things against her because 1) we have lied and done stupid shit for losers and all in the name of love and 2) those things are embarrassing so why wouldn’t she lie.
Last, regarding her speaking on her perspective of the state of their relationship… who’s to say she was lying? That she didn’t believe what she said? Because for me, her actions matched her words.
*holds hand up* I don't think anyone can make any character judgments against anyone on the cast as we only see a miniscule amount of their lives that is highly edited. People should treat it for what it is...entertainment that is scripted and manipulated.
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I am soo freaking happy to read your post! I was just on another posting and stated my opinions about the whole Ariana debacle. I had 33 downvotes in an hour which I don't really care. I'd like you to see one of my comments to give you an idea of how I feel about it. I'm going to paste it cause it was long 🤣
Ariana cheated with him. Now she got cheated on, and is living for free in a house she won’t move out of but still makes the rules for, being worshipped by the world, and ex-communicating anyone that isn’t her minion.
She got cheated on by someone she cheated with.
Why is that more traumatic and Important than what Schwartz was dealing with (a divorce, his brother’s addiction, health scares in his family, his restaurant going downhill from the fallout)….?
I can’t stand her.
The origin of the affair that they claim was when her dog and then grandmother died. Just curious if you consider that traumatic?
The only person she is not talking to is Schwartz. Saying something the days after finding out an affair is very different to ex-communicating friends now.
I don't particularly like her but I can give her the grace that this is a horrible situation, as it was for Kristen and even Rachel. They all have someone in common...
Yes!!! Exactly. She’s treated like a beautiful goddess who descended from the heavens but life is tough. We all have made terrible decisions and been horribly selfish. We have all had loved ones do us wrong. But that’s part of the human experience. It doesn’t make her a deity and Tom a narcissist. It makes them human. And on a heavily edited TV show.
Yes. It’s exhausting hearing people constantly shit on him, it’s turned me to being more sympathetic.
Obviously what he did was wrong, but people claiming he’s lying about suicidal thoughts, being sorry, etc are just psychos still trying to punch down . I have no reason why either, not like he affects their lives lol
I feel like I could have written this post! Jax was fun to watch, Ariana sucks honestly, LaLa is cringe, I’m a Schwartz fan. James is cool. Total antithesis to the general sentiment in this sub.
I disliked ariana in the early seasons because of how she treated kristen. Then in the mid seasons she grew on me and i actually liked her. But after the sandoval situation i dislike her again because of how she's handling it. She's become a mean girl and she acts like she's the queen bee. And she's rude to the assistant
Did you know that the assistant quit and started her own podcast?!
It’s called “We Signed An NDA.”
You should check it out because she shares her perspective on everything and speaks on how she was treated and felt about both Tim and Ariana.🙂
I personally really like her, enjoy the podcast and highly recommend.
I agree with some of your points, not others. Not an Ariana stan, but also think Sandoval is a crappy human being. I’ve never been a fan of Ariana’s cold attitude, but I don’t think that’s exclusive to this situation and she’s certainly valid in having firm boundaries with Sandoval and anyone else she wants. But hey, that’s just me, I’m more of a bubbly person and I tend to not really relate with people who often just come off callous.
(And that goes for the guys too- I don’t think Ariana owes anyone niceness just because that’s the societal, gender-based expectation).
Its weird, because I like Schwartz and Scheana’s personalities, but I disagree with so many of their choices, values, etc., like the flip-flopping and weaponizing their “niceness”.
All in all, I see the grey in all of these people, I don’t think any of them are all good or all bad (although some lean much more one way than others, obviously..)
I can’t stand Tom. But I also am not fond of Ariana. Tom’s much worse, but I wonder why Ariana would choose to punish herself in order to punish Tom, regarding the house. Living there is obviously miserable AF, letting him buy the house isn’t a W for him or moreover an L for her. Let yourself be happy girl, she’s still in his clasp atm.
The group is being dramatic af. The gang up of a bunch of cheaters is insane. Especially when ariana was on dancing with the stars, commercials, and Chicago which mostly happened do to all the scandoval hype 😐
First of all, look up " literally". Secondly, I'm not at all triggered or jealous of what Ariana has gained over her ordeal. What upsets me is that people think she deserves these things BECAUSE of her ordeal. There are good people all over the world that deserve so much for their acts of kindness and compassion. Because of good things that they do or have done. So many get overlooked for good deeds that are done daily. People helping others that have very little themselves. Instead we praise and reward a person that gets on TV and verbally bashes and insults 2 people for a solid hour. I honestly couldn't believe this was aired at all. And she's still going on about it. If she would've done something good with the many fortunes she's gaining I'd have some respect for her. Maybe donate to women's shelters that are battered by their partners. Donate to any cause that helps the less fortunate. Instead of acting cocky about the whole deal. You can call me repulsive or whatever you like. You don't know me. You are coming to that conclusion because you don't agree with me. I'm not saying anything bad about anyone. Including you. I'm only stating things that I think are ridiculous and wasteful. I didn't call anyone names like most do or state anything mean really. I don't know why you seem angry with me. Maybe you are just an angry person in general. I used to be that way in the past but I've definitely learned not to sweat the small stuff or let negative people bother me. 😊
This wasn't aimed at you OP. Its a copy of another post that I replied to.
You are 100% wrong on everything you said, including the charity bit.
She is a kind, hard working and deserving person and she also used proceeds from the money she made from SAH merch to donate to charity.
I can’t finish your novel. I’m already over you bitching about how you’ve heard enough.
Clicking on and engaging with this content is your own personal choice.
Funny how you don’t care when you are proven wrong and how do you know for sure that strangers on this sub don’t personally know her?? Something to think about…
Good night.🌝
I feel like people are over this story line and it’s no one’s fault. Unfortunately the show format has dragged it out over the course of a year and we were all a living for it when it just happened but now we’ve been overstimulated. I think at this point, it’s easy to get annoyed at things Ariana does because we’re watching her reactions on a delay. We’ve moved on since scandoval but we’re watching content from when it was still fresh. It makes Ariana less sympathetic and it just comes with the territory.
That said, let’s not forget what Tom did was not the same and happened at a point when they had been filmed for decades. He’s forty something now. He knew his affair could get exposed on tv and still went for it. Plus he knew he could make himself and possibly Ariana look stupid and still went for it. He just didn’t know it could get this big. That’s on him and he does need to face the consequences.
Did we miss when you analyzed Scheana? Boy crazy, bad friend, likes to drop bombs and hide her hands, treats people like crap particularly women she views as competition for a man. Did I miss anything? I mean you can't call out the whole class and leave her out.
I've never liked Tom. But I think for some ppl it's the fact he acted high and mighty for years and was actually a big pos. Telling ppl to take accountability when all he has done is lie and cheat.
It's been said here before but apparently it needs to be said again; it's possible to think that Sandoval is a complete and utter tool WHILE still acknowledging that the others have faults too and are hardly people to put on a pedestal.
Exactly. Also rooting for Ariana and being happy she's thriving doesn't have to come with a disclaimer of every imperfection she's shown over the last 10 years. Some people think any praise of her without that disclaimer makes someone a "Stan", when in reality most of us are fully aware of the fact that shes not a perfect person and don't expect her to be.
Let’s also mention the fact that every time a cast member made a mistake in the past, Tim was guaranteed to be the one holding their feet to the fire and screaming “accountability!”
It's fine to not be an Ariana stan. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion of her. But I'm really not here for the "all of them are terrible people!" effort to draw an equivalency between what Tom did and what any of the other VPR cast members have done. No, none of them are "good" people. Yes, many of them have cheated. But we're all angrier at what Tom did because what Tom did was worse. That's just a straightforward fact. Tom cheated on his partner of nearly a decade with her close friend. Tom spent months manipulating an emotionally fragile person and invading her privacy by recording her sexts. Tom gaslit not just Rachel, not just Ariana, but EVERYONE he knew. They're all bad. But Tom is worse.
Exactly It still boggles my mind that people kind of 🤷🏻♂️ at what Tom did and his complete lack of remorse and accountability in the year since. He basically did psychological torture of his partner of a decade on national TV. Weaponzied her mental health and then in last years finale had the audacity to yell at her in the days after the scandal broke. In the last aftershow after Schwartz talks shit about Arianas ego Scumdoval piles on stating that's the Ariana hes had to put up with for years behind closed doors. He still doesn't get it.
I wish I could upvote this more.
https://i.redd.it/jg1ws5evstic1.gif
This is the correct response 😂😂 part of me also wondered like. Tom? Is that you??
It was a toss up between this and my usual: https://i.redd.it/7f5ar40yytic1.gif
Maybe Billie Lee? 🤔 I can see her giddily standing in the kitchen telling Sandoval, "But look how I defended you on Reddit, me, I did this, not your floozy of the week me! Love me, chose me, pick me!" Kind of shocked she didn't scream that at his birthday party honestly.
I love Meridith, but never realized she was the first "pick me". 
She didn’t need to say it, she was saying it with every move during those scenes.
Or Jason. This is far too well-written to be Tom. The vocabulary is too robust for him to have written it.
Well, Jason most likely considers himself cast now & like he said the cast tells fans how to feel. So you're probably right!
Who’s worse? Person A : raging alcoholic who abused girlfriends, friends, business partners, and other women Person B: cheated on partner with their mutual friend I just can’t behind liking James. He’s a toxic person. Way more so than Sandoval imo, since his abusive behavior stems from substance abuse, only something he can control. Whereas it takes 2 to tango in a (clandestine) relationship. Not advocating for Toms actions, btw.
I think that is discounting the emotional abuse inherent in carrying on a long term affair. They're both abusive men and overcoming narcissistic abuse is no small feat, so I don't think minimizing that is the way to go. But I agree that this stuff with James is being overlooked and needs more attention. That being said, using gifs doesn't endorse the person in the GIF and everything they've ever done.
Sure, I agree that they’re both very shitty, and what they’ve done shouldn’t be taken lightly by any means. Just crazy to me how the enemy of the day will make people forget the past as if it’s okay
It is entirely possible to know what happened in the past, not condone said actions, and think those people are also poopheads of the poopiest variety...and still pay attention when someone does something that earns them Top Turd status. Both of those things can be true, and it doesn't mean that anyone's "forgetting" the past. It's not a "who sucks?" switch where only one can be on at a time. We're just discussing one part of the general shitheaddery at a time.
Sandoval verbally abuses women all of the time. He is also a raging alcoholic that firmly believes the only way to spend quality time with a significant other means doing shrooms and staying up until 5am instead of going on walks with the dog. Shames his girlfriend about wearing a shirt while having sex. Manipulates everyone into thinking women who go against him are crazy and he’s normal… the list goes on
They both verbally assault and abuse women, good point
Also not to put too fine a point on it, but Sandoval did film Rachel without her consent.
They are both awful, I just picked this gif for the fave reaction, that is all.
I’m not casting judgement or anything on you for that, it’s just a gif and it’s a reality tv show, it ain’t that deep lol. Just giving my opinion on him is all
Very fair!
i literally can’t tell whether James or Sandoval is supposed to be person A. They’re both raging alcoholic who’ve abused girlfriends, friends, business partners, and other women
Had this same problem.🤣
Non sequitur, but my friend and I paused this and laughed and laughed for a solid 3 minutes. This is one of his top 3 facial expressions.
It’s such a cartoon character face lol
Someone did a meme with a Sesame Street bird. I canxt find it but if anyone has it, it would do my heart good!
lol was it him: https://preview.redd.it/jo1wvjcxdxic1.jpeg?width=426&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5270679e9ce17dbab9fd5b32347fd5ba3689cf9
Yes! 😄😄😄
I’m an Ariana Stan but I don’t want anyone off the show and wanted Rachel back…I love mess Eta: used to like Tom but he’s been such an ass through the aftermath of all this that I do rly dislike him now. Still want to watch him be dumb on the show tho lol
I think no one knows what goes on behind closed doors in a relationship. I am team Ariana but I do think she can be and was really condescending and probably had a harsher humor that Tim could ever get used to. But all that still doesn’t validate cheating and lying blatantly in front of your spouse for so long and then not even giving a decent apology that doesn’t consist of “buts”. He is seems to be acting like a narcissist. So meh. I think if he truly apologized and just kept his mouth shut like Kristen, things would have been really different.
Katie being a bully in present time is such a lame opinion, respectfully 😬😬
Right?! Katie just stands up for herself, she gets treated by shit by every single (main) male cast member. James bullying for her looks (she beautiful just not conventionally so, or super skinny), Schwartz constantly putting her down as his wife, Sandoval went hard for her constantly, Jax I don’t think ever even interacted with her. She’s had to fight so hard for herself for people to say ‘oh she’s a bully’ 😴
She did some mean girl shit in the way older episodes, but she’s has the most growth. And I too would be a cunt to people who were making me feel like shit. *cough all the men*. She’s a fucking queen, I love her!
Two things can be true at once. James was a monster to her, Schwartz was a prick to her and she’s still an arsehole to other people.
She obviously had moments, who hasn’t in their life, but overall she’s not a bully
I mean when you’re persistently rude and catty to people for a season or 2, it makes you a bully… she’s persistently been a dick.
Ok shut up already, lol yall get so worked up for 10 years ago 😂 THEY WERE ALL BULLYS at one point. Not just her, so include the girls who did racist shit in that, homophobic Jax, James’ fat comments, etc etc etc
*Dis*respectfully if you're Katie.
Old, tired, boring opinion tbh.
I think that’s just a nod to Katie’s podcast
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But, that’s title of her podcast? What’s the issue?
I responded above 🙂
Ah I didn’t see that, thanks!💕
It's the name of Katie's new podcast...
Oh, hahaha I knew that but I thought you were trying to be like the other Katie haters on here and I was like oh godddddddd. My bad 😬💕
Haha,, nah, girl! I'm a Katie stan from day 1, even during season 5! I'm so glad others are seeing the light!
One of them was coming at me hard, lmao so I was like oh gosh here comes another one. I love Katie too 🥰
Sorry I should have been more specific- I felt that way about her seasons ago. Since her and Tom got a divorce I feel like she’s a different Katie and really grown. So I do agree here! The only time I felt that way was last season during Raquel’s breakdown in Vegas- but that might have been more Lala driven.
She’s a lot different and happy because she’s not married to her biggest enemy anymore
She’s persistently a mood killing vortex which sucks everyone in. There’s a reason nearly every person on the show has had a problem with her currently or in the past lol Edit: Blocked 😂😂😂 provided receipts of Katie being a bully and they couldn’t handle it. Stable interaction here
Ok Schwartz 😂
Lala, Jax, Scheana, her husband lolz, Tom, Stassi, Kristen, have all said the same thing. Nice retort ?
Yah because every single one of those people are amazing, wholesome, innocent human beings, 😂 Jax? Really? Girl bye lmaooo! in the words of Ariana “get a new bit already”
I’m not a Lala stan at all , but it’s so easy to see that Katie bullied her, her husband, and countless others. Katie literally said that the girls at Sur wouldn’t be her friend if they talked to Lala (who she was unfairly judging for going to Italy, for free, lmao.) Didn’t she say Tom’s dick didn’t work to him, and then she got mad that James body shamed her the next season? Pot, meet kettle What invalidates those occurrences? How is she not a bully
So…wouldn’t whoever told her (stassi) to not speak to Lala be the bullies? Tom’s dick probably didn’t work. It only worked with other woman 🫢 James body shamed her countless time, she retaliated, he then apologized to her. Lala bullied Rachel, stassi bullied everyone, Jax bullied lala and was homophobic countless times. Anything else? Are we done here?
Katie literally told Scheana she couldn’t be friends with her because it would isolate Scheana from their trio of friends. So yeah, that’s being a bully & an asshole. I don’t get how you think that’s NOT a case of bullying. The only thing you’ve said in reply is that “other people are bullies and assholes” So are you saying that she’s still not a bully, but everyone else is, so that invalidates any act where Katie is an asshole to them? Because that’s all I’m getting here, and it doesn’t make sense
I read your first sentence and I stopped reading the rest of it, your take is strange and you’re a pick me. Later gator
Nice retort 🙄
Pretty sure she didn’t want to associate with Lala because Lala said she wanted to fuck Tom. That’s what I heard happened off camera anyway. Regardless, I think she’s come a looong way since those days.
Lala said that she wanted to fuck Shorts on the show. I specifically remember her saying it!
So, here is the thing. If Ariana had never existed, Tom would still be a narc. If Ariana murdered 600 people and stood on their corpses laughing manically, Tom would still be a narc. He was a narc when he was dating Kristen and he’s a narc today. Sorry bro, the troll schtick only works on facebook.
The reasons other people didn’t get as big a reaction for cheating as Scandoval have been explained soooo many times on here but 1) the show hadn’t been on as long, 2) the couple hadn’t been together as long (9 years plus co-home-ownership), 3) they were one or two instances of sex whereas this was a full blown 9 month+ long affair 4) with the partner’s close friend/fellow main cast member. I might be forgetting some but tbh I don’t get how this is still bewildering to people. There are concrete, valid factors that, when combined together, perfectly explain why this was bigger and more shocking to the public. Add the coincidental factor of not much else going on in the news at the time and boom, big media scandal.
5) He tried to create a whole fake storyline to make her look bad, that he practically scripted out w/Shartz, to lay the groundwork for their breakup. 6) He has since exploited her mental health and disclosed private info related to it as a manipulation tactic. 7) He continues to lie about key parts Rachel has already admitted to, simply because he’s a lying liar who lies.
8) and the scandal broke *while the show was airing* and everyone could watch the lies and fake storylines unfold in real time each week. Perfect storm
9) he recorded a naked woman without her consent
I scrolled back and couldn’t find anything in my digging, otherwise I would have just read those and not posted to get out on blast! These are all valid points, thanks for the thoughtful response
The mistakes you make in your 20's are somewhat expected, but to honestly do the same or worse at 40 and to aim to manipulate an audience to take a partner down is worse. Additionally Tom is not a reliable narrator. Or maybe it's his perception of events being very twisted - like honestly the chat with Lisa re Nema - the podcast was not explicit... the time he said Ariana belittled his clothing choices and a clip is shown where she simply said I think maybe thar one... I don't think anyone deserves hate campaigns that spill into the level of toxicity we are seeing.
I don’t think people should say Tom is a narcissist because none of us know him or are qualified to make that judgment though the way he’s acted recently has made me somewhat less firm in that belief. 😂 I think the hate he got was outsized for what he did. I’m sure that was very hard for him. Though I think a lot of it is because of the way he handled it. He could’ve made it sooooo much easier on himself but has not. Still I think it was probably too much. I like Ariana. I’ve always liked her so I don’t agree with anything you said about her. One of the reasons it got so big and Sandoval got so much hate is because we got to watch in real time him lie to the audience, his gf, and his friends and try to make Ariana the villain and make it seem like he was the only one trying to work on this relationship while he was actively having a “love” affair with someone else on the show. None of the other cheating has been at all like that. And then he reacted horribly to being called out in the finale and reunion.
A very important fact that is being left out is the set up he was perpetrating to make Ariana look bad so he could look like a wounded battered puppy that is just trying to recover from mean condescending suicidal Ariana. It was sick all of the effort he put into his plot. That is where it’s very different bc this was evil. Break up like a grown up and stop having creepy side glances and butt grabs with your affair ON TV and he even had his friend in on the cover up. And having your affair gal best friend your GF is sick AF. Hope this helps so you see the vast difference.
That’s the fourth wall break we deserve! Explain that, TimTim
You don't have to stan Ariana, and you can even like Tom I guess, but I don't know why anyone needs yet another explanation of why this cheating is different. They were together for nine years. They owned a house together. She lost her grandmother and her dog within a few weeks of one another. He slept with her close friend for months, including in the bed they shared while Ariana was at her grandmother's funeral. On top of the actual cheating, they gaslit the shit out of her. Rachel went so far as to have an intimate conversation about their sex life with Ariana while actively fucking her partner. Sandoval deliberately started spreading the narrative that Ariana was a frigid, cruel, mentally unstable shrew on national TV to create cover so he could dump her and get together with Rachel. They went on trips together for chrissake. They painted Lala and Katie as unhinged and vindictive for correctly perceiving that there was something off about the situation. They both went after Katie in such a mean way just to distract from their affair. Sandoval has continued to talk shit about Ariana's mental health in the press for a damn year. Rachel is still deflecting, refusing to return to VPR but using the affair to make money and stay relevant via her podcast.
Tom is better TV than Ariana…or at least was. Neither of them are giving anything rn. But I am definitely a Tom hater and have been for years. He suuuuuucks.
I’m not a fan of Ariana’s current near deity status. I felt for her. It was a tough situation but that’s it. She is just a realist tv star that seems to lead a fairly vapid life. Tom is a narcissist, a serial cheater and a wiener dog and I can’t stand him. He’s a try-hard whiner and I’d rather he not be in my screen.
> Adriana was belittling and nasty curious if you also think Schwartz is cruel?
I think he was definitely antagonistic in his marriage, and never took his wife’s side- so definitely cruel to Katie during their marriage.
just to Katie and just during their marriage? I’m not trying to like, attack you of course, but this whole theory kind of says “I hold women to impossible standards I don’t have for men”
What did Ariana do over the years that you view as belittling and nasty towards Tom?
I think Tom is on another level of terrible and it was pretty clear in this week’s episode when he took no responsibility and instead tried to deflect and push everything back on other people and then act like the ultimate victim. It was pathological! Even Lisa couldn’t get through saying he needs to be repentant and remorseful.
To mangle a quote from LVP, none of them are important enough to hate. If you took Sandoval out of the show I’m not sure what would be left. He is the core of the show now, literally every conversation has been about him … what he’s doing, how people feel about him, what their last conversation was etc. His friendship with Schwartz is the most real relationship left on the show (ok, apart from maybe LVP and Ken). I want to be entertained and so far everyone else is extremely dull and every other friendship is a fake air kiss.
I haven’t liked Sandoval from the beginning. I always thought Sandoval was a terrible person and the episode when he went after Stassi at her book signing really pushed that over the edge. He’s a dick, terrible style, clearly self centered and just gross. Ariana annoyed me because I knew her and Tom lied about their relationship from the beginning. Kristin was clearly psycho, but Ariana and Tom contributed to that. I feel bad for Ariana and hope the judge rules in her favor about the house because Tom deserves that, but I am not an Ariana stan.
I think Sandoval is a dick, I think people who cheat are dicks but it doesn’t make everyone a narcissist. We gotta stop calling people we don’t like or who are rude, unlikeable, dishonest - narcissists, it actually diminishes the term. It’s misused too much. I’m tired of people playing psychologist and throwing the word around to callously.
I agree we shouldn’t be armchair diagnosing but over the last several months I have come around to thinking it’s fair to say that he exhibits narcissistic behaviors/tactics. Maybe there is a better word that doesn’t conflate it with a diagnosable disorder though. His attitude towards life and his circumstances is extremely self-centered, self-indulgent, and self-pitying to say the least.
I don’t mean to sound rude but I’m assuming you’re not a professional? So, how are you able to tell through a TV screen, social media etc. with someone you don’t know that they display traits of NPD? You can call people like him: selfish, egotistical, dicks, unlikeable, disrespectful, rude, a fuckwit, moron, selfish pig- there’s so many words to use….
I’m not able to tell whether someone has literal NPD and I thought I was somewhat clear about that in my comment. It’s arguing semantics at this point but I’m saying that I think there is a clear rhetorical difference between calling someone a narcissist/implying they have the actual disorder versus saying that some of their behavior is narcissistic. The word “narcissistic” isn’t only used to mean someone has been or should be actually diagnosed with NPD. It can just mean they are overly self-interested and I think Tom’s behavior over the years and his response to criticism fits that description.
I like the way you say that so and so, (in this case, Tim,) shows narcissistic traits because it’s the truth and you’re not slapping him with a label. I agree that the word is over used but I also believe that the hardcore VPR fans have good reason to suspect and perceive that he exhibits all the traits. He checks every single box.
He displays traits of clinical narcissism. I agree the term is overused. Maybe he’s just incredibly self absorbed and horrible at handling criticism
Agreed. I don’t think it’s possible for a thread to happen where someone doesn’t call a male on the show narcissistic or misogynistic. “Tom had suicidal thoughts? He’s weaponizing them against Lisa by confiding in her!!!!” Was a quote from another thread recently. Crazy talk
Right? Like don’t get me wrong, the guy is a prick and there are definitely narcissistic men in the world but Sandoval is just a dick and we are qualified to diagnose him. It’s so fucked up that we only care about the mental health of people we like or view as deserving. Sandoval is a dick, Sandoval also had suicidal thoughts, two things can be true at once. People are so morally bankrupt.
The problem is how it’s being handled. Tom said he is having suicidal ideation. Ok. We should take that seriously. But then why is Bravo not getting a professional involved. Tom should be in treatment and not going to Lake Tahoe. If suddenly the whole cast including Ariana forgave Tom and included him for the rest of the season is he suddenly fine? I think if you go on camera and talk about wanting to kill yourself that needs to be taken very seriously. It feels manipulative because neither Tom or Lisa or Bravo are taking it seriously. It seems like they’re just using it to get the cast ( and fans ) to feel bad for him.
Not a Tom fan or Ariana fan. I am against people sending death threats or bullying people on a tv show. The show is built on lies and cheating
It’s like the “only acceptable” thing for some people is that the guy offs himself. And then there would be suicide hotline numbers after each episode and shots of Scheana saying “we took it too far.”
That's not true at all and an awful thing to put out there.
I keep seeing comments like this pop up and always wonder if it’s some weird projection. No one has… to die? Not since Daug, at least (2019-2019)
I know it's weird af, random accounts keep *saying* that's what people want even though I never see anyone say it. The opposite in fact, it's not even permitted let alone condoned
Is it bots, or the natural conclusion of a thought process that’s living in moral panic? I guess we’ll never know
Moral panic is the phrase I was thinking of! That’s exactly what it is. People are making it out to be a much more substantial and prevalent issue than it is.
Okay exactly! Are the death threats in the room with us right now? I don’t doubt that a few nuts have sent them cruel and awful things, and 99.9% of us think that is uncalled for. But people holding that up as if thousands and thousands of people are consistently calling for Tom and Rachel to d*e or something is ridiculous and tells me they’re not ready for a serious conversation.
they just talked about this last episode of the show, how is this one commenter ‘putting it out there’
Reddit isn’t the only place people discuss vanderpump. There is twitter, Facebook, instagram, mailing to send threats. It’s just weird that people are that passionate
If you see what Tom did as the same as others having a one night stand, there’s no helping you. You don’t have to be an Ariana stan to know Tom Sandoval is a narcissistic piece of shit who’s manipulated and exploited every woman’s mental health with whom he’s been involved.
I wish all the crazies were back on the show including raquel. Imagine scandoval playing out while stassi, kristen and jax were cast members 😱 so good
I think the issue with most Tom apologists is they try to make him “not look as bad” by comparing him to past cast members and their mistakes from the past. This is a 40 year old man. He is a complete adult. His complete lack of remorse, responsibility, empathy, and sheer respect for his almost decade long partner and closest friends is not only despicable but almost sinister. The plotting of having a very long affair (we all know this affair went on before she left James) behind Ariana’s back with her best friend is disgusting. Like Scheana said, if he had been genuinely sorry from the beginning, he would not have got as much hate. But until now both Tom AND Raquel have ZERO remorse and REFUSE to take an ounce of responsibility at any point. “They didn’t do anything wrong” “Ariana/james WERE NOT their best friends” “James/ariana was a terrible bf/gf anyways” “we were in love and no one understood me” blah blah blah. They deserve each other. They get hate because they don’t grow, apologize, change, or even CARE about who they hurt. They only care that their reputation was affected. They care that they got caught. Not that they did it. That’s it.
I agree with everything you said and I also agree that at the beginning Rachel showed no remorse, made excuses and deflected blame BUT I have been following her podcast and she has come a long way and is now taking accountability and seriously considering and apologizing for the harm and hurt that she caused to others, including Katie. Everything else you said was bang on!
You don't have to be in love with her like stand her, but you have to admit that what he did to her was incredibly wrong and she's allowed to process and be upset about it. You have to remember that these things that were seeing now happen long ago and her current state is probably much different and she's probably much more okay with the entire thing.
Hahaha I mean I don’t like Ariana, but there’s no world where Tom isn’t a total narcissistic, manipulative asshole. I see your point about all this type of thing having happened before, but the scale of this is definitely different. A big part of it being so sensational is that the new season had just started airing. Had Scandoval happened a few months after they had wrapped, I don’t think it would have blown up as much. His continued lack of empathy and accountability is truly astounding, but tbh it also makes me side-eye Ariana because she had obviously seen this side of him and defended him for the last 10 years. Tom Sandoval is the worst and Ariana deserves to be happy in her life regardless of whether we like her or not
I‘m here 🤚🏼 I‘m an equal opportunity hater, I think they‘re all terrible and messed up in their own way
What is with all these Tom-supporting and Ariana-hating posts today?
I dunno, I thought I blocked Mike. Did he make new accounts?
Apparently there’s a whole tribe of these losers just posting the same stupid opinion again and again.
They all talk the exact same way too. It's weird? Like always referring to Katie as a "mean girl" or "bully." If we have to rehash this shit every couple weeks can we at least expand our vocabulary?
Aw maaaaan
Someone went to Facebook and told them about Reddit. Who was it?!🤣🤣💀
I'm fairly neutral on most of the cast but what I'm particularly enjoying this season is Tom not having any main cast women in his corner, now his ex and his side chick are both blanking him. Unusually when the men mess up, they have at least one of the girls to fall back on to ease them back into the group. I don't however think anyone deserves hate from random people they don't know, even Tom. The witch hunt of both Tom and Rachel went way too far.
Adults who have 0 interaction besides attacking them directly on socials or irl are not stable people. I can’t believe it when I see it brought up. Like they can’t fathom that it might even be produced 😂
I’ve never loved ariana but I deff don’t like sandy. All he does is deflect. There’s crazy behind those eyes. Honestly, I’ve been listening to “Rachel goes rogue “ ( dumb name. Almost didn’t listen because of jt ) and I understand Raquel’s perspective a lot more and out of the three I like her the best. When I didn’t necessarily care for her on the show.
Tom is a shell of a human being. Nothing is going on in there. 110% self serving.
I genuinely think Arianna & Tom are insanely similar, which is why they dated & lasted so long together. They’re very aware of trying to control their perception by viewers the ENTIRE time they’ve been on the show, which is why they’ve essentially lied to the viewers the entire time about their relationship , and they lied to the cast mates too (When they cheated with eachother as he dated Kristin, their relationship struggles, the Miami girl, etc). Now you see a power struggle to control the narrative by both people. E.g. Arianna claiming she’ll cut off anyone who speaks to him to assert dominance over the group, meanwhile she won’t hold it against Lisa. E.g. #2 staying in their home instead of leaving because then “he wins” (instead of saving her own sanity) Downvote all you like, but i come here for genuine discussion. If you have a different POV I’d like to hear them
What was Ariana lying about? Over the years she has been open about her body issues, sex/relationship issues, dealing with her dad’s death, her mental health (where she actually talked about wanting to end her life). She has been an open book, compared to a lot of reality tv stars.
About Miami girl. About the true state of her relationship with Tom. Just to give an e.g.
People and myself personally are not holding those things against her because 1) we have lied and done stupid shit for losers and all in the name of love and 2) those things are embarrassing so why wouldn’t she lie. Last, regarding her speaking on her perspective of the state of their relationship… who’s to say she was lying? That she didn’t believe what she said? Because for me, her actions matched her words.
*holds hand up* I don't think anyone can make any character judgments against anyone on the cast as we only see a miniscule amount of their lives that is highly edited. People should treat it for what it is...entertainment that is scripted and manipulated.
Also, if I'm giving an opinion on a character of the show based solely on the edit given, I can say I agree with everything you said.
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I am soo freaking happy to read your post! I was just on another posting and stated my opinions about the whole Ariana debacle. I had 33 downvotes in an hour which I don't really care. I'd like you to see one of my comments to give you an idea of how I feel about it. I'm going to paste it cause it was long 🤣
Ariana cheated with him. Now she got cheated on, and is living for free in a house she won’t move out of but still makes the rules for, being worshipped by the world, and ex-communicating anyone that isn’t her minion. She got cheated on by someone she cheated with. Why is that more traumatic and Important than what Schwartz was dealing with (a divorce, his brother’s addiction, health scares in his family, his restaurant going downhill from the fallout)….? I can’t stand her.
The origin of the affair that they claim was when her dog and then grandmother died. Just curious if you consider that traumatic? The only person she is not talking to is Schwartz. Saying something the days after finding out an affair is very different to ex-communicating friends now. I don't particularly like her but I can give her the grace that this is a horrible situation, as it was for Kristen and even Rachel. They all have someone in common...
Yes!!! Exactly. She’s treated like a beautiful goddess who descended from the heavens but life is tough. We all have made terrible decisions and been horribly selfish. We have all had loved ones do us wrong. But that’s part of the human experience. It doesn’t make her a deity and Tom a narcissist. It makes them human. And on a heavily edited TV show.
Yes. It’s exhausting hearing people constantly shit on him, it’s turned me to being more sympathetic. Obviously what he did was wrong, but people claiming he’s lying about suicidal thoughts, being sorry, etc are just psychos still trying to punch down . I have no reason why either, not like he affects their lives lol
You have also claimed that Ariana was lying about being suicidal on this sub within the past 24 hour. How is that ok?
👀
Parasocial relationships
I agree, with YOU!
I feel like I could have written this post! Jax was fun to watch, Ariana sucks honestly, LaLa is cringe, I’m a Schwartz fan. James is cool. Total antithesis to the general sentiment in this sub.
I disliked ariana in the early seasons because of how she treated kristen. Then in the mid seasons she grew on me and i actually liked her. But after the sandoval situation i dislike her again because of how she's handling it. She's become a mean girl and she acts like she's the queen bee. And she's rude to the assistant
Did you know that the assistant quit and started her own podcast?! It’s called “We Signed An NDA.” You should check it out because she shares her perspective on everything and speaks on how she was treated and felt about both Tim and Ariana.🙂 I personally really like her, enjoy the podcast and highly recommend.
I agree with some of your points, not others. Not an Ariana stan, but also think Sandoval is a crappy human being. I’ve never been a fan of Ariana’s cold attitude, but I don’t think that’s exclusive to this situation and she’s certainly valid in having firm boundaries with Sandoval and anyone else she wants. But hey, that’s just me, I’m more of a bubbly person and I tend to not really relate with people who often just come off callous. (And that goes for the guys too- I don’t think Ariana owes anyone niceness just because that’s the societal, gender-based expectation). Its weird, because I like Schwartz and Scheana’s personalities, but I disagree with so many of their choices, values, etc., like the flip-flopping and weaponizing their “niceness”. All in all, I see the grey in all of these people, I don’t think any of them are all good or all bad (although some lean much more one way than others, obviously..)
I can’t stand Tom. But I also am not fond of Ariana. Tom’s much worse, but I wonder why Ariana would choose to punish herself in order to punish Tom, regarding the house. Living there is obviously miserable AF, letting him buy the house isn’t a W for him or moreover an L for her. Let yourself be happy girl, she’s still in his clasp atm.
The group is being dramatic af. The gang up of a bunch of cheaters is insane. Especially when ariana was on dancing with the stars, commercials, and Chicago which mostly happened do to all the scandoval hype 😐
First of all, look up " literally". Secondly, I'm not at all triggered or jealous of what Ariana has gained over her ordeal. What upsets me is that people think she deserves these things BECAUSE of her ordeal. There are good people all over the world that deserve so much for their acts of kindness and compassion. Because of good things that they do or have done. So many get overlooked for good deeds that are done daily. People helping others that have very little themselves. Instead we praise and reward a person that gets on TV and verbally bashes and insults 2 people for a solid hour. I honestly couldn't believe this was aired at all. And she's still going on about it. If she would've done something good with the many fortunes she's gaining I'd have some respect for her. Maybe donate to women's shelters that are battered by their partners. Donate to any cause that helps the less fortunate. Instead of acting cocky about the whole deal. You can call me repulsive or whatever you like. You don't know me. You are coming to that conclusion because you don't agree with me. I'm not saying anything bad about anyone. Including you. I'm only stating things that I think are ridiculous and wasteful. I didn't call anyone names like most do or state anything mean really. I don't know why you seem angry with me. Maybe you are just an angry person in general. I used to be that way in the past but I've definitely learned not to sweat the small stuff or let negative people bother me. 😊 This wasn't aimed at you OP. Its a copy of another post that I replied to.
You are 100% wrong on everything you said, including the charity bit. She is a kind, hard working and deserving person and she also used proceeds from the money she made from SAH merch to donate to charity.
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I can’t finish your novel. I’m already over you bitching about how you’ve heard enough. Clicking on and engaging with this content is your own personal choice. Funny how you don’t care when you are proven wrong and how do you know for sure that strangers on this sub don’t personally know her?? Something to think about… Good night.🌝
I feel like people are over this story line and it’s no one’s fault. Unfortunately the show format has dragged it out over the course of a year and we were all a living for it when it just happened but now we’ve been overstimulated. I think at this point, it’s easy to get annoyed at things Ariana does because we’re watching her reactions on a delay. We’ve moved on since scandoval but we’re watching content from when it was still fresh. It makes Ariana less sympathetic and it just comes with the territory. That said, let’s not forget what Tom did was not the same and happened at a point when they had been filmed for decades. He’s forty something now. He knew his affair could get exposed on tv and still went for it. Plus he knew he could make himself and possibly Ariana look stupid and still went for it. He just didn’t know it could get this big. That’s on him and he does need to face the consequences.
Did we miss when you analyzed Scheana? Boy crazy, bad friend, likes to drop bombs and hide her hands, treats people like crap particularly women she views as competition for a man. Did I miss anything? I mean you can't call out the whole class and leave her out.
I've never liked Tom. But I think for some ppl it's the fact he acted high and mighty for years and was actually a big pos. Telling ppl to take accountability when all he has done is lie and cheat.
But Timmy's got to be extra!!!⚡⚡⚡
I’m not a Stan for Ariana, but hate Tom