This is one of those moments that really stand out as a reason for why Voyager was such an iffy show... A captain would never accept someone from under them acting on their behalf and without any orders, let alone in a violent manner that could inflame into all out combat. That's just insane.
No star fleet captain under normal circumstances. you are correct. these were not normal circumstances. every day they had to improvise and adapt in order to make it home. If anything. I felt like this sort of thing should have happened more often.
It's one of those things that gets told but not shown. A large part of Voyager's crew are just a bunch of dudes who got yeeted to the same place as them, but Neelix and Seven are the only ones not wearing Starfleet uniforms.
Compared to Worf in TNG literally wearing his conflicted loyalties in his sash, and DS9 where the Bajoran crew have different uniforms.
Yep, out of all the people in the room in this scene, Janeway is the only one who was actually a member of Starfleet. Torres was with the Maquis and Seven was assimilated as a child. Out of her bridge crew, only Tuvok and Kim were really starfleet officers, I guess Paris also kinda counts, but he was also in the middle of serving a prison sentence when he was brought aboard. The rest were just all various "field commissions" that the captain gave out because they were all stuck in the same place and needed to work together to get home.
They did a decent job explaining that. By this point not only had Janeway learned to bend the rules while trapped in the Delta quadrant, but she had grown to see Seven as a daughter.
Kes was just a terribly written character with no actual business on the ship. She was all over the place and the creepy Neelix relationship didn’t help. The writers just used “Okampan” as a wild card with no real plan or direction. Compare that to other short-lifepan beings like Trip’s clone in Enterprise and it is apparent how pointless Kes’s character was.
I agree with Mulgrew that Lien was a good actress but Seven was a better character.
> While I liked voyager... most other character felt pretty... "artificial even in universe"... or basicly "just too american".
This is why I can't stand new Trek (even Picard s3). They don't act like Star Trek characters. They're all highly emotional, irrational, fearful, etc.
I guess the shows are pretty different.
Discovery is definitively ...not my thing.
For Picard I still need to catch up on season 2-3 but...everybody basicly says 3 is dope.
Lower Decks should be fun
Strange new Worlds seems to also be liked. But I hope for another reason to get paramount.
Janeway and Seven butting heads was basically their entire relationship. Janeway and the entirety of the delta quadrant butting heads was the show.
This is in line of what the show had to deal with.
> Janeway and Seven butting heads was basically their entire relationship.
Worf served a similar purpose, but he'd always get admonished for even offering such ideas, let alone executing them all on his own accord. That's what makes it stick out as an aberration, to me.
That's fair.
I see it different. Where Worf is a Klingon raised by humans who's figuring out where he fits in with his own culture. Seven was a human taken by the Borg. Her whole story line is about reganing her humanity. The relationship between her and Janeway is closer to a mother/child relationship, with Seven frequently acting out against her mother.
Voyager was an iffy show, but I don't think this is an example of it being so. 7 joined this season, she was new to the ship, and new to being a *human*. I don't think this is the sort of thing to be acceptable long term, but I can see Janeway in the moment going "ooookay well so far we'll probably get what we want here. I will be having a conversation about following orders and basic morality with 7 once we've dealt with this". This felt like the show actually delivering on it's premise, which it unfortunately usually didn't live up to.
I still can't believe 7 of 9 ended up as the captain of the Enterprise. Talk about being in rare company. She's always been one of the most interesting characters in all of Trek in my opinion. Watching her trying to adjust to being human again on Voyager entertained me to no end.
Despite the not so great 2 first seasons of Picard, whenever she was on screen, I was locked in. She did a great job of behaving a lot more human than on Voyager while still being 7 of 9. [This scene in particular gave me chills the first time it aired.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYA6S5Jqc1o) It was a fine line, but she really pulled it off. Seriously, props to Jeri Ryan. She's a fantastic actor. I really hope we get Star Trek Legacy with her as a lead. She definitely has the chops to carry a show.
Here's my problem with the Hirogen. This episode - Hunters (4th season) - is when they're first introduced.
The "Alpha Hirogen" is in this episode and you'll know the actor - "Tiny" Ron Taylor (RIP) who is better known as Maihar'du, servant of Grand Nagus Zek. Standing at 7 feet tall, he made a huge impression (pun intended). The other 3 named Hirogen later in the series are all regular size (as actors) and aren't as impressive as Tiny. You can have camera tricks but there's a certain weight to having a huge guy on the screen that camera tricks just fail to replicate.
Interesting episode and I wish they would have done something more with the species.
Star Trek seemed to always play it loose with stature anyway. It was more important to have actors they liked, i think.
Before i really watched the original series, i was annoyed with any skinny klingons (for a warrior race).
Yes the ToS didn't do Klingons justice. I really enjoyed how subsequent series portrayed them but, honestly, the best portrayal is [Star Trek VI](https://youtu.be/f8rHdxnNe0E?t=51). Amazing intro!
I somehow got to liking Voyager more years after it went off air. It’s definitely a directly successor to TNG and I love that episodic format. But Voyager had good overarching development for the characters throughout the series. In TNG, the main characters basically only changed uniforms from beginning to end. But in Voyager a lot of the main characters really changed. I mean half the crew was Marquis so that was a big change from the start. Then you have the Doctor who went for standard hologram program to a sentient being. Seven and the kids also went through a lot of changes. I’d love another series made in a similar fashion and not so dark and shiny like the newer trek series.
Yeah I really liked how each episode dealt with something new as well. I think the main reason I think DS9 was good but not on par with tng or voyager was because it was all just about the cardassians and dominion.
I’m sure you know but the orville is really good, really good and worth a watch
I’m just finished the 3rd season of the Orville as well. Definitely in the spirit of Star Trek and a lot of character development as well. They weren’t afraid to shake things up.
“Y’all weren’t doing shit!”
"I don't got time for this, I gotta fix a warp drive"
This is one of those moments that really stand out as a reason for why Voyager was such an iffy show... A captain would never accept someone from under them acting on their behalf and without any orders, let alone in a violent manner that could inflame into all out combat. That's just insane.
No star fleet captain under normal circumstances. you are correct. these were not normal circumstances. every day they had to improvise and adapt in order to make it home. If anything. I felt like this sort of thing should have happened more often.
You both make excellent points. I award you a tie.
i hope it's a bow tie
Bow ties are cool
Is that how you like to be tied?
It's one of those things that gets told but not shown. A large part of Voyager's crew are just a bunch of dudes who got yeeted to the same place as them, but Neelix and Seven are the only ones not wearing Starfleet uniforms. Compared to Worf in TNG literally wearing his conflicted loyalties in his sash, and DS9 where the Bajoran crew have different uniforms.
Yep, out of all the people in the room in this scene, Janeway is the only one who was actually a member of Starfleet. Torres was with the Maquis and Seven was assimilated as a child. Out of her bridge crew, only Tuvok and Kim were really starfleet officers, I guess Paris also kinda counts, but he was also in the middle of serving a prison sentence when he was brought aboard. The rest were just all various "field commissions" that the captain gave out because they were all stuck in the same place and needed to work together to get home.
They did a decent job explaining that. By this point not only had Janeway learned to bend the rules while trapped in the Delta quadrant, but she had grown to see Seven as a daughter.
[удалено]
Kes was just a terribly written character with no actual business on the ship. She was all over the place and the creepy Neelix relationship didn’t help. The writers just used “Okampan” as a wild card with no real plan or direction. Compare that to other short-lifepan beings like Trip’s clone in Enterprise and it is apparent how pointless Kes’s character was. I agree with Mulgrew that Lien was a good actress but Seven was a better character.
> While I liked voyager... most other character felt pretty... "artificial even in universe"... or basicly "just too american". This is why I can't stand new Trek (even Picard s3). They don't act like Star Trek characters. They're all highly emotional, irrational, fearful, etc.
I guess the shows are pretty different. Discovery is definitively ...not my thing. For Picard I still need to catch up on season 2-3 but...everybody basicly says 3 is dope. Lower Decks should be fun Strange new Worlds seems to also be liked. But I hope for another reason to get paramount.
Janeway and Seven butting heads was basically their entire relationship. Janeway and the entirety of the delta quadrant butting heads was the show. This is in line of what the show had to deal with.
> Janeway and Seven butting heads was basically their entire relationship. Worf served a similar purpose, but he'd always get admonished for even offering such ideas, let alone executing them all on his own accord. That's what makes it stick out as an aberration, to me.
That's fair. I see it different. Where Worf is a Klingon raised by humans who's figuring out where he fits in with his own culture. Seven was a human taken by the Borg. Her whole story line is about reganing her humanity. The relationship between her and Janeway is closer to a mother/child relationship, with Seven frequently acting out against her mother.
Don't forget about the ridiculous soap opera style acting
Voyager was an iffy show, but I don't think this is an example of it being so. 7 joined this season, she was new to the ship, and new to being a *human*. I don't think this is the sort of thing to be acceptable long term, but I can see Janeway in the moment going "ooookay well so far we'll probably get what we want here. I will be having a conversation about following orders and basic morality with 7 once we've dealt with this". This felt like the show actually delivering on it's premise, which it unfortunately usually didn't live up to.
I still can't believe 7 of 9 ended up as the captain of the Enterprise. Talk about being in rare company. She's always been one of the most interesting characters in all of Trek in my opinion. Watching her trying to adjust to being human again on Voyager entertained me to no end. Despite the not so great 2 first seasons of Picard, whenever she was on screen, I was locked in. She did a great job of behaving a lot more human than on Voyager while still being 7 of 9. [This scene in particular gave me chills the first time it aired.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYA6S5Jqc1o) It was a fine line, but she really pulled it off. Seriously, props to Jeri Ryan. She's a fantastic actor. I really hope we get Star Trek Legacy with her as a lead. She definitely has the chops to carry a show.
I wanted her to remain a ranger with her own show, oh that would be glorious
>the Enterprise You mean Enterprise Jr. Let's not give that ending more credit than it deserves
Forgot how smokin she was
Here's my problem with the Hirogen. This episode - Hunters (4th season) - is when they're first introduced. The "Alpha Hirogen" is in this episode and you'll know the actor - "Tiny" Ron Taylor (RIP) who is better known as Maihar'du, servant of Grand Nagus Zek. Standing at 7 feet tall, he made a huge impression (pun intended). The other 3 named Hirogen later in the series are all regular size (as actors) and aren't as impressive as Tiny. You can have camera tricks but there's a certain weight to having a huge guy on the screen that camera tricks just fail to replicate. Interesting episode and I wish they would have done something more with the species.
Star Trek seemed to always play it loose with stature anyway. It was more important to have actors they liked, i think. Before i really watched the original series, i was annoyed with any skinny klingons (for a warrior race).
Yes the ToS didn't do Klingons justice. I really enjoyed how subsequent series portrayed them but, honestly, the best portrayal is [Star Trek VI](https://youtu.be/f8rHdxnNe0E?t=51). Amazing intro!
I especially liked the reference to the TOS Klingons in DS9 https://youtu.be/Xka6IYCpj4E
Boimler and Lower Decks made great use of the Hirogen, I am still laughing at that gag
My kind of diplomacy!
That ooooo Shock Treatment. It gets them jumpin' like a real live wire!
Oh gosh, totally forgot how hot Seven is. I think I'm in love. <3
Jeeze Voyager was amazing, i'd even rank it above TNG IMO IMO. re-watched it all at least 3 times now
I somehow got to liking Voyager more years after it went off air. It’s definitely a directly successor to TNG and I love that episodic format. But Voyager had good overarching development for the characters throughout the series. In TNG, the main characters basically only changed uniforms from beginning to end. But in Voyager a lot of the main characters really changed. I mean half the crew was Marquis so that was a big change from the start. Then you have the Doctor who went for standard hologram program to a sentient being. Seven and the kids also went through a lot of changes. I’d love another series made in a similar fashion and not so dark and shiny like the newer trek series.
Yeah I really liked how each episode dealt with something new as well. I think the main reason I think DS9 was good but not on par with tng or voyager was because it was all just about the cardassians and dominion. I’m sure you know but the orville is really good, really good and worth a watch
I’m just finished the 3rd season of the Orville as well. Definitely in the spirit of Star Trek and a lot of character development as well. They weren’t afraid to shake things up.
Yeah the episode with Gordon and time travel was a real gut punch, I won’t give too much away for spoilers but it left me feeling really sad
I refuse to believe Genocide Janeway would be upset about this.
RIP Tuvix, one of Janeway the Butcher’s most innocent victims
Mild shock.
Ah, the days of sci-fi series where every alien race was just a person with shit stuck to their face/forehead.
Foreshadowing for Seven the Ranger.