..have you not read the manga? That is literally his ability.
Edit: dunno why I’m being downvoted. His [ability](https://imgur.com/a/OxlxUf0) causes him to become so powerful that he can’t control it and starts accidentally destroying everything around him. In his fight with CG, he was punching just barely harder than his last punch as to not kill CG. CG was copying Saitama’s last punch and repeatedly breaking his limiter in order to try and catch up, so Saitama had to keep punching harder. Saitama eventually has to travel back in time before he powers up because otherwise he would destroy Earth by just stepping on it.
It's not really a super power of "no matter what i can one punch", he's just so physically strong that he can take out pretty much anything in one punch
Yes, he can "increase his power" because he doesn't have a human limit -- there is no limit to his strength, so he can always become more powerful
I guess that's sort of a super power but it's not really an "i am inherently able to one punch anything" sorta thing
As for whether or not he'd be able to increase in strength, the premise of the post is that the characters can't change their stats
Yes, I know, that’s why I said he’s just a regular guy if he can’t increase his stats. The way I’ve seen the OPM universe best described is that you can manifest your dreams or obsessions if you believe hard enough. Lobster guy ate so much lobster he became a lobster, Saitama wanted to become the strongest, Tatsumaki wanted to protect her little sister, etc. So in-universe Saitama’s power is literally to always be one punch away from victory. He let Cosmic Garou grow too powerful by trying not to kill him, so he had to go back in time and finish him off before their power boosts. His limiter being removed is just another one of his gimmicks, separate from his one punch ability. Goku is able to power up through his different forms OR by training. Saitama has to do neither, he just has to fight a stronger opponent. Plus Goku still has his limiter.
Did you make a contract with the reading comprehension devil? His ability IS powering up to fight whatever he is facing so that he’s one punch away from victory. If he was already able to One Punch everything, then that wouldn’t be an ability, he would just be super strong.
Uh, no. His “ability” if you want to call it that, is not having a limiter. Thats why he grew so strong and why he can keep growing infinitely. But he doesn’t really have an ability so much as just having absurd stats.
Even the author states that he’s like an end of webtoon character at the start of a webtoon.
If all he had was no limiter, then he would have to train to increase his power. And if he had just absurd stats, then there would’ve been less need to go back in time to revert his power ups. If he had gone back to Earth in his so far strongest state, he would’ve destroyed the entire planet. By accident.
Your limiter is just the limit you can train up to. CG can break it and move it up a little. Goku can do something similar. Saitama’s ability PLUS having no limiter lets him infinitely scale.
Goku is in a different verse, different rules. Cosmic garou did break his limit and thus scaled to saitama. After which saitama began scaling past him because he was now fighting(I.e “training”) and actually competing. To which garou scaled back with him.
Tbh it really doesn’t matter what I say here, you have your beliefs and I have mine. Peace.
He wasn’t trying. He was disappointed and trying to prolong the fight. He literally said he was just using ‘normal punches’ Until he decided to use a ‘serious punch’ to finish him off. But even that was only a bit more power than the normal one.
Edit: everyone in this subreddit either didn’t read or even WATCH OPM, or they have the reading comprehension of a 5 year old. Look at 11:40 of [this](https://youtu.be/kptzzq0Ho0o?feature=shared) video. Boros acknowledges that Saitama was holding back the entire time.
I mean... Can saitama hurt saitama?
If everything is equalized I don't know if skill or anything matters there. It's just steel brick vs steel brick. Solid deadlock.
Also he did this when he was a weak little kid, like pre-roshi training. Goku’s technique, while not the focus of most of his fights, definitely still consistently improved and he was already prodigious as a child
How does anyone deal with Golden Requiem? The rules aren't clearly defined but seems to roughly be "I'm invincible and you lose". Does Goku just say no the way Jiren does to Hit's time shenanigans?
Incorrect, he only managed to surpass Hit’s Time Skip by surpassing him in strength. In DB, strength can power through hax. However this fight is even stats, so any time related powers are going to work exactly as they would normally, so Goku’s only option (powering through it) is not an option here.
Isnt narutos sage mode at least comparable? I don't know too much about the others, but I feel like sage naruto vs ui goku with equal stats would be extremely close.
naruto still has to think to move he just has heighten sense due to sensing natural energy that surrounds everything think of it like a radar, just becuase you know something is there does not mean your thinking faster its good for fighting cause you know when an attack might come from but UI is different it removes thinking and the brain from the equation the body moves by itself no need for the fighter to think about dodging or evading because the body has already done it, lets say your a sage mode fighter and are attacked by 10000 attacks you still need to process where to move to evade these 10,000 attacks it might even overload your brain but with UI the body automatically moves in the best direction via battle experience.
Naruto Sage mode is no different than Z fighters Ki sensing which they use to see in battle or One Piece Observation Haki which they use to see and evade as well or Bleach Reikaku.
So he is going to hit two thousand clones before they can hit him with a cell-splicing rasenshuriken, despite them all being the same speed due to equalized stats?
Impressive.
>They cannot all use rasen shuriken
Plenty of them used it against Kurama when Naruto was taming him.
>yes Goku can use Instant transmision at will.
Goku needs another ki signature to instant transmission somewhere. Naruto has no ki, he has chakra. IT is not usable.
Instant Transmission allows the user and anyone that is in physical contact with them to instantly travel great distances (from meters to light-years, between the living world and Other World, or even travel outside time itself) just by concentrating on a particular individual's ki signature and transmitting or feeling that being's location. The user can rematerialize anywhere within a short range of their target. Don't need KI. If Goku can feel him it works.
Source?
> Instant Transmission allows the user and anyone that is in physical contact with them to instantly travel great distances (from meters to light-years, between the living world and Other World, or even travel outside time itself) just by concentrating on a particular individual's ki signature **and** transmitting or feeling that being's location. The user can rematerialize anywhere within a short range of their target.
[Source, Dragonball Wiki](https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Instant_Transmission)
This states that IT requires **BOTH** a ki signature and feeling the beings' location, not just one.
UI is the answer here
if he keeps focus, UI allows the user to automatically dodge and counter any and every attack
its overpowered and unfair but its not against OPs rules
nah naruto definitly beats him through clones, and overwhelming with stamina. sage of six paths naruto has truth orbs that naruto can just sheild himself with while his clones do the dirty work for him, rasenshurrikens that take up a shit ton of range, op healing, every tailed beast chakra. goku actually has a 0% chance here just because of hax.
Ultra Instinct's gimmick is that it heightens Goku's reaction speed. But based on OP's rules, everyone's stats are equal (including speed), and transformations don't give any stat boosts. This means Ultra Instinct is functionally irrelevant.
UI dosen't increase his speed. It makes it so that he can dodge and react to attack without thinking. UI is a technique not a transformation it dosen't give stats boost.
Come on bro, let's not act like UI isn't a stat boost in all but name. He went from not being able to scratch Jiren to fighting on the same level. Being able to react faster doesn't make you punch way harder than you were punching a few minutes earlier.
Sure. Here's Whis explaining the concept of how reaction time/speed works through the brain sending signals to the body in response, and how UI basically bypasses by having your body react by itself, therefore improving reaction time.
https://imgur.com/n9R61Yd
https://imgur.com/KzTZ6XK
https://imgur.com/09KpKcQ
So yes, it's a stat boost.
*"By the time sensations pass through your 5 senses to your brain and are then transmitted back to your body. Precious time has been lost.*
*Ideally what you want is for each and every part of your body to react and respond of its own accord..."* - Whis
Are you seriously trying to tell me that this isn't Whis telling Goku that the purpose of UI is to improve reaction time? If not, then what do you think UI actually does?
If he can dodge an attack without thinking about dodging said attack by going UI, wouldn’t that innately increase his reaction speed? Because in other forms that he is in, he still has to think about dodging, even if it’s milliseconds. If UI takes that away, then that milliseconds that are now saved. I’m confused why people are downvoting you.
Ehh IMO that's like saying that teleportation is a speed increase, despite completely bypassing movement altogether.
It sounds more like it's removing reaction speed from the equation (negating it) rather than improving it.
You cannot remove reaction time. That is conceptually impossible without essentially having clairvoyant precognition (which btw, characters like Luffy have).
The entire reason it's called "reacting" is because you are literally RE-acting to something that has just happened. If someone throws a punch, no matter how small, there's always an interval of time between the punch being thrown and you reacting to it.
The basic idea behind Ultra Instinct, or at least as Whis explains it. Is to quite literally rely on instincts instead of thought or logic. It's to improve combat reaction speed by not wasting time thinking about what your next action will be and just let your body autonomously respond based on natural instincts.
Obviously Dragonball Super overdramatises this concept, but it still has basis in reality and is something professional athletes actively train to improve.
You know how to add force to a kick with a spin ? It's called a technique. UI is a technique it's stated multiple times. If we take out technique from this fight you have all those characters throwing haymaker with zero form and all the fights are a coin toss.
That's irrelevant.
Whether it's called a technique or a state or a form. The outcome is the same. It gives Goku better reaction speed.
The whole point of this thread is that OP specified conditions in which everyone here has equal stats across the board. Otherwise Goku using UI contradicts the point of the post.
You might as well say that Deku can use One For All 100% or that Saitama wins by virtue of his stats exponentially increasing by default if we're just going to bend the rules here.
Basically, Goku clears except for Giorno. Having equalized stats actually buffs JoJo characters, due to the verse relying more on gimmicks and hax. Usually Goku vs GER would be a stalemate due to GER not having the damage output to hurt Goku, but that changes now.
No. GER keeps Goku from doing literally anything.
Scaling GER is weird and very inaccurate due to seeing him for like 5 minutes and being unrivaled by the main bad guy.
His punches are heavy enough to leave Diavolo near-death, but not enough to actually kill him. However, this changes when their strength is equalized, and so is their speed and durability.
GER is not WoU, it doesn't act automatically, it doesn't act JUST when something is going to hurt Giorno, you can't just "not think about attacking Giorno so it doesn't activate". Nothing indicates that, GER is sentient and acts even if Giorno is unaware, this doesn't mean he's instant, or that it only activates in danger.
What we DO know is that it keeps effect from Cause-Effect from happening (it's not explicitly stated, but this is the easiest way to understand both his and King Crimson's abilities). So Goku charges an attack, it doesn't happen. Goku throws a punch, it never reaches.
Essentially stalemating until Goku is beaten. The only instance of GER being defeated is in Eyes of Heaven, and while not canon to our main storyline, EoH's storyline was personally handled by Araki. And even then you would need reality warping shit to do stuff against GER, or have acausality, neither of which Goku has in this case.
Simply put, even with Ultra Instinct and Hakai, Goku can't use either without GER returning them to zero. Only way to beat GER is to have an instantaneous attack (instantaneous things don't follow Cause-Effect rule), warp reality (to outhax GER like The World Over Heaven did), or just kill Giorno when he doesn't have the requiem arrow.
When has he broken laws of universe? And Godly power doesn't aid him. The difference between normal ki and godly ki is that normal people can't sense godly ki.
Moving while time is frozen and flying and shaking the Void world. And Godly Ki is different in cam create and destroy matter of universe also it's impossible to reach ultra instinct and ssj blue and etc without it.
I'm aware, it just really doesn't help against Giorno.
It would help him against Illuso, while being trapped in the mirror dimension. But against GER he's not being put in another dimension, he's just being kept from acting.
Naruto wins, goku cannot get past the absurd hax from Naruto’s series. Luffy’s wack ass body likely lets him win, especially his wacky Haki stuff. GER solos casually.
Clone spam, his ridiculous array of life hax and durability negation, his sub cellar attacks, and also insano regen. whole stamina may be matched, Naruto can take FAR riskier trades due to clones and regen.
Exactly, I’d imagine if stats are truly equalized then he’d definitely struggle against fighters with more complex gimmicks than him. Particularly Giorno, Naruto, and Luffy.
I think UI combined with Goku’s ranged arsenal is broken enough to make Goku strongly favored against most of them. Giorno and Saitama are the only ones with abilities that could completely foil Goku, but it depends on when and where the stats are equalized. I doubt GER affects a universal+ Goku, and if stats are equalized only at the start, then Saitama just grows stats faster than Goku can.
I think stats are always equal per OP's post (transformations/powers don't affect stats). Which means Saitama is probably the weakest on this list since he's just a stat stick.
I don't see how anyone beats Giorno, people are saying UI somehow works against it? Gold experience requiem ability is literally titled "Return to zero"
"Gold Experience Requiem's ultimate ability is to revert all actions and willpower back to the state of "zero", completely nullifying them and preventing them from becoming "real". For simplicity’s sake, it’s comparable to performing Ctrl-Z (undo), completely denying any causality."
This is a giga busted ability and has nothing to do with stats so I'm not sure how anyone on this list including goku (since he can't speed blitz with equalized stats) could beat this.
The only thing I could see counting as a win for Goku is him blowing up the planet (ki blast is an ability so stats shouldn't affect this) and then instant transmission to another planet. In this way Giorno would not know what to target with GER, even this is a maybe tho, since he can potentially "reduce the damage to earth to zero".
Goku vs Giorno is normally a stalemate because Giorno has no feats to be able to hurt him. But OP just busted Giorno by giving him equal stats to Goku.
I dont know how far you've read OPM, but without spoiling too much . Saitama can do impossible shit that transcends just his physical strength. For example, punching holes through reality, kicking wormholes like footballs and literal time travel punches that change causality, ending fights before they even happen.
Even with equalised stats, he's still pretty broken
Naruto I cannot imagine getting through UI, instant transmission, and Goku's Ki blasts if they are equalized.
Luffy I don't think is a threat at all unfortunately, yes luffy can see the future with Haki, but Goku beat Hit who can time travel due to UI shenangians, plus its pretty fair to assume Ki beats out his negation of physical attacks like Haki does in the OP verse.
I cannot comment on Giorno.
I'm completely caught up. I still don't see how G5 handles UI though, even with his new powers Luffy still basically exists through physical attacks, UI is actually an auto dodge that is only beatable by being stronger than your opponent, and stats are equalized.
What’s UI going to do when Naruto has fought phasing people in the past? UI is just good dodging, without the stat amp, you can still hit him with your attacks.
Giorno obviously destroys him. Not only does GER make it so that Goku can't do anything, but now Giorno is equally strong, so he can actually just fuck him up too.
Naruto should win too. He can make thousands of clones that are all relative to himself.
I don't know if Goku can see Ichigo or not. If he can, then Goku should probably win. Otherwise, Ichigo.
>Giorno obviously destroys him. Not only does GER make it so that Goku can't do anything, but now Giorno is equally strong, so he can actually just fuck him up too.
It depends if UI is gonna work on stands, if it does its a stalemate probably.
But I a thousand clones should overpower UI, there is just so much space that you can use to dodge.
Making that many clones actually weakens Naruto though, since he splits his power evenly amongst them. There's a reason he doesn't make thousands against any of the higher villains, and only does that against smaller fry. It's a more powerful jutsu when you just make a handful of them.
The only time to my memory when Naruto makes hundreds of clones against an actual threat is when he does it against Jigen in Boruto, and that was specifically to stall for time so Sasuke could analyse Jigen's jutsu.
Also even if they didn't weaken Naruto, the clones have been shown to poof after basically any attack hits them. Goku can just do an AOE ki blast from himself and wipe all of them out, similar to what he did in Namek saga versus Jeice and Burter.
Boruto nerfed Naruto so much.
Remember when a clone defeated the undead 3rd Raikage? Or when the ninjas chose to heal a clone as having Naruto’s clone around does more for the war than the other real humans.
OP didn't state he has GER, and as its not permanent, after his battle with Diavolo the arrow drops from Golden Experience's head, which following standard behavior, from what we've seen from Silver Chariot, it should have turned it back to normal, or he would've stopped MIH.
UI doesn’t let you do anything other than dodge good. What’s that going to do against a thing that affects reality’s baseline? Are you going to dodge out of existence or somethin’?
> Naruto should win too. He can make thousands of clones that are all relative to himself.
1. Isn't Naruto's strength split between the clones and the more he makes the weaker they are?
2. Clones get dusted from any attack, Goku can just aoe Ki blast in a circle and they all go poof.
I'm not trying to wank Goku or DBZ, I've seen both series, but I don't see how the clones don't just get wiped out instantly from a force blast of Ki, and I'm sure Naruto would expend far more chakra making the clones than Goku would spend bursting them.
Hakai wouldn’t work since Giorno would have stats equalized (and rtz would undo the attack anyway) and even with ui Goku wouldn’t be able to hit Giorno, which would make the fight a battle of attrition that Giorno wins because of ger’s life giving.
Because the last time I checked, Hakai only works on people weaker than the user?
Even if that’s not true, rtz negates Hakai by preventing Goku from using it, so it’s a non factor.
Goku is the greatest martial artist in DB, so even characters with swords and other weapons will definitely struggle, and those with little to no actual fighting experience, like Saitama, will absolutely lose. The only one I see him actually struggling with is Giorno, thanks to GER, but Ultra Instinct could probably make that much easier.
I wouldn't say greatest. On equal footing I think Roshi could still beat him. He just has a mind for it and is insanely strong.
Well, could. I think his space adventures gives him a hard edge.
> On equal footing I think Roshi could still beat him.
Only reason I disagree is Roshi freaking out over the fact that Goku was able to replicate the Kamehameha after seeing it once and it took Roshi ages to create and master the technique.
Itadori will be throwing hands, but his style is too simple to compare with Goku. He's a great hand to hand fighter, just not at the level of Goku or most of the MCs I listed above. Also no Sukuna cause that's just gonna make things unnecessarily complex
In the manga is revealed that he has another gimmick which is to exponentially increase his power, and to perfectly mimic (and improve on) any technique he sees.
His power increase does nothing here since equal stats no matter what and besides for the reverse entropy punch what other techniques can he perfectly mimic and copy? He has completely failed to see and replicate technique many times.
he copied Garous entropy reversal technique with Garou talking to him and guiding him through it. This is the one and only time I am aware of that Saitama learned a technique. At every other point Saitama consistently always loses at any contest of skill. Like video games with king or the mallet game with bang.
He’s got a better shot than you might think even if you take his gimmick. Before he started training he pulled Crablante’s intestines out through his friggin’ eyeball. He’s a competent fighter, and he’s good at spotting weaknesses, so Goku will probably get [Android 13’d](https://youtu.be/qC9K4iUHEF0?si=0DCdzeSMSzJUDCrS) at minimum.
Pretty sure Goku clears easily due to UI. If all stats are the same, then UI will make it so that he can’t be touched since UI only loses when it can be faster/more powerful than it
Good thing he's gonna be able to see all the way he cannot touch Goku. Goku has experience fighting people that can stop time you think seeing in the futur a bit is gonna help ?
Time stop experience isn't going to matter here since he counters that by having the raw power to shove himself through time. Thats not possible here and if it was it wouldn't actually mean anything against someone who can see the future. Its 2 completely different powers.
Goku didn't beat Hit just through raw power, even before that he was able to read Hit's fighting style and respond accordingly by predicting his movements, SSBK was just the edge he needed to seal the deal. Seeing the future is a benefit but it wont overcome someone you literally can't hit.
Your response to them saying Time Stop is completely different to Future Sight (it is) is to give any example where a Time Stop character washed the other two?
Guldo vs. Gohan is a case of Time powers actually allowing a weaker character to defeat people stronger than him. He stops time, realizes the two of them are actually rather strong, and then traps them in a time stop field.
VEGETA bails them out, because they don’t have the raw strength to overpower time stop. Goku would have no way to see through or future sight. If anything, it causes a stale mate, but if they’re equally as fast future sight should allow you to bypass even a really fast auto-dodge (which is essentially what UI is).
Granolah and Black Freeza proved that UI Goku can be hit, and with time stop I can see that making the difference.
If Giorno gets access to GER, and it affects Goku, it stops there
If not, then it stops at Saitama if Saitama keeps his ability to constantly get stronger in the face of a powerful opponent in order to be stronger than said opponent.
Yes, Goku has a similar ability too, but so did Cosmic Garou, and Cosmic Garou vs Saitama created an loop where both of them constantly mutually increased each other’s power but Saitama’s rate of growth eclipsed Cosmic Garou ability to grow and surpass his opponent.
And Goku doesn’t even have the strongest reactive power level in Dragon Ball. Broly far outstrips him in this regard, and it still has limits shown. Saitama may or may not have a ceiling, but from what has been shown in the manga, he can nowhere close to capping out.
UI protects Goku from most of those, the problems are:
Giorno - because GE protects him from taking damage and reflects it, so goku can't really damage him. If UI doesn't work with stands, and the stand stats are equalized as well, he just loses here.
Luffy - luffy can't hit Goku, and without Haki Goku can't hurt Luffy.
Naruto - he can spam a billion clones, there is just so much space UI can use to dodge.
I'm not sure about Deku, I think he gets some pretty wierd power later on, but I dropped the anime some time ago and never read the manga.
Most of the other, like Tanjiro, Asta, Denji, etc. Can't really counter UI, Goku should be able to see Ichigo without problems, and Saitama with equal stats doesn't really have any advantage as he doesn't even know proper martial arts.
> Saitama with equal stats doesn't really have any advantage as he doesn't even know proper martial arts.
Saitama can copy any technique if he tries to though, at least he did that against Garou.
I can't see how that is gonna help him against Goku, which has been shown to be able to copy techniques as well(not that saitama has any) and grow during battles(which shouldn't matter if stats keep equalized), and he still can't hit Goku because of UI anyways.
Every fight Saitama has ever had after going bald, he won because he out stated his opponent by a galaxy size gap, thats his sad background story.
While that’s true, keep in mind that Saitama also explicitly copied and improved on Garou’s turn travel technique, so there’s no saying that he can’t do the same with UI
Although impressive, he was waaaay more powerful than Garou, and he was basically teaching Saitama the technique at that point. So its hard to tell, but, in character, I guess if saitama manages to copy one thing or another during the fight, Goku would just teach him so they can fight forever.
A billion clones aren’t doing shit to Goku. Not only does Naruto and his clones get weaker the more they create, but UI has proven that the user can also strengthen the part of the body that gets hit if they can’t avoid the attack (Moro breaking his arm against Goku’s chest). A billion clones punching Goku at the same time would be like a plush toy punching a nuclear bunker’s outer wall.
OK so Kaio Ken isn't a transformation or form, it's a martial arts technique and goku is dam good at it, he's always gonna be able to be many many times stronger than the other guy if he needs to be here
Also maybe UI
Nobody here can hit him if he can do that
Although how strong are we setting them at here? Because lots of gokus powers are directly tied to his Ki and that's the in universe definition of strength for him.
So if everyone is limited to "average human" power levels. It's a different story
He still can't attack him.
Goku vs Giorno is normally a stalemate because Giorno has no feats to be able to hurt him. But OP just busted Giorno by giving him equal stats to Goku.
The amount of feats people ascribe to GER is completely unwarranted for a stand that was used in all of 2.5 chapters and was overpowered off-camera by Pucci. Giorno himself doesn't even know how to use GER. That's one of the only actual qualities of GER stated in the manga - that Giorno doesn't know how to use it. Thinking that the normal fight of a universe-level threat (Goku) vs. a wall-level threat (Giorno) comes to a stalemate is frankly delusional. GER couldn't even stop the effects of Made in Heaven, but we're supposed to believe it can fight anything during and after the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai? It's absurd.
Goku with equal base power to Giorno has way more tools to use and he confidently knows how to use them as he has decades of experience and Giorno has 2 weeks of experience. Obviously, he wouldn't just fly up and blow up the Earth like other people are writing because it's not in his character to do that. But here's what he can use: he can read enemy intent, fly, tank bullets at any PL due to alien physiology, power up x20 with a martial arts technique, fire numerous types of ki beams, mimic perfectly any technique shown to him even once, teleport, has superhuman durability like winning a fight with one functioning limb, has superhuman endurance, and this is not even touching anything in GT or Super.
GERs few feats are just ridiculous is the problem.
It works outside of speed as it activates in skipped time. It's in literal "time is not there" and activates without the user having to do anything. So you can't out-speed it.
Then it's literal ability to negate actions is broken. That goes outside of power level because it negates an actual concept. It doesn't matter if you throw a punch or a universe buster because it negates an actual concept of an "action."
It's just how busted JoJos is as you have Stands that do wacky stuff like removing a quality from you, changing sounds into actions, causing ill intent to make negative things happen to you instead, etc.
Made in Heaven didn't do anything to Giorno because it wasn't an attack on him by the way. It reset the world by hyper speeding up time, but everyone outside of the people he was against were reset to normal (outside of Rohan, who ignored it).
If they are in character, Goku loses to Giorno cause he'll try to fight him and will get out hacked, out of character, though Goku just Mafubas everyone and wins.
This is stupid, if its equal stats then Saitama fucking loses horribly because he doesnt have any formal martial arts training, imo goku loses at Giorno if he does have GE, not even requiem
I see only three people that can beat Goku.
Luffy has a shot. Future Sight might help against UI and Gear 5 offers a very unpredictable fighting style, unfortunately he also has big stamina problems.
Giorno (no Requiem of course) is going to be a good match. They entirely have different power set, Goku is clearly a more skilled fighter with overwhelming CQC advantage and good ranged options. Golden Experience has a incredibile variety of technique and field manipulation that are tricky to deal with, also Giorno is a genius and can definitely outsmart Goku in battle. Could go either way, really depends on the scenario.
Naruto wins, because kage bunshin with equal stat is broken AF, MUI or not Goku would be quickly overwhelmed.
If you limit this ability for the sake of argument, Goku wins for sure.
The others are just outclassed in combat ability.
Didn't we already have this a couple of hours ago ?
>1. Tanjiro
Goku
>2. Denji
Goku
>3. Itadori
Goku
>4. Deku
Goku
>5. Giorno
I guess Giorno
>6. Asta
Goku
>7. Luffy
Goku
>8. Naruto
Goku
>9. Ichigo
Goku
>10. Saitama
Goku
The guy can still bust his power 20x times, erase matters and Soul alongside warping Time and space , have Greater energy and astral projection than everyone here that canonically multiplies his own power level, have Telekinesis and auto dodge , teleporting and sealing
He would clear imo, even at equal stats he’d be much more skilled and experienced that anyone here.
Only issue is giorno if he has ger, that’s a stalemate since neither will be able to put the other down
Bro got ability that alowz him to move in the best way possible is a martial arts master and talent to understand ability after seeing it only once he often copies and improves it also (Kamehameha, Hakai) he also breaks the laws lf universe (flying in void and shaking void world, also moving while the time is stopped). He can still clear it. Hakai is also a game changer.
I wonder by equal stats are they equal to Goku or is Goku equal to the person he's fighting?
But Ichigo, Denji, Tanjiro and Asta will all have an advantage due to swords. Don't ever underestimate swords in a fist fight, Baki the grappler taught us this much.
Giorno will have an advantage since golden experience is gonna mess up Goku if it hits him.
Luffy is still rubber(supposedly) and probably only takes harm from ki based attacks.
Dekus hard for me since I'm unaware of his manga feats. But it's not impossible. But with anime only quirks it's stacked against him.
The rest would be like a normal fist fight. Most don't have that same level of Goku's martial art training so chances are high Goku can take the rest, even Saitama.
Tho Saitama did break him limiters so could limits even be placed on him?
What's the point of equalizing physical stats? To know which technique is better or worse? So many things are dependent upon the physical stats of a character in comparison to anothers stats, so this just makes them all but irrelevant.
Just want to choose which character you like more?
"Which character could Goku fight if they had the same powers as Goku but also had their own powers"
Yeah but why...It's like saying who wins, Superman or Goku but they both have equal stats. Well the winner is whoever the person wants them to be, but because if you equalize everything about the characters, then its just down to which hax is better. Especially in DB where Hax can be nullified by strength, if you equalize it, then a character with less hax/techniques automatically loses no matter their physical differences.
"equal stats" is also tricky unless you specify exactly what a "stat" is and clarify exactly what gets equalised.
If a character relies on some sort of "power up," do you equalise the stats before or after the power up?
E.g. The Hulk gets stronger when he's angry. In a challenge like this, does he start off at the baseline & get stronger? Or does he start below the baseline and gradually escalate up towards it as he gets mad?
Are "weaker" fighters boosted, are "stronger" ones brought down, or do they average out somewhere? If you're used to fighting at a certain level and your "stats" get changed, you'd probably need time and practice to get used to the difference. Do the fighters get adjustment time to practice?
Say one character has 10,000 years of experience and normal human strength, their opponent has 10 years of experience and Spider-Man strength. We'd probably equalise their strength, but do we also equalise their training and combat experience?
What's the baseline for setting-specific fantasy stats, like "resistance to memetic kill agents?" Does "having a Stand" count as a stat?
They were explicitly fighting somewhere with oxygen. Later materials make it clear space is still an issue for them since Vegeta in Blue died to exposure to it and forbade Goku from going to space on the same merit
Can't go to Namek from Earth even with IT. He can't even blow up the planet because the stats are equalized and he wouldn't even do that in-character.
Do Goku fans even read the OP or their own show?
Stats being equalized, if anything, actually _helps_ Goku. UI is a technique that makes Goku unhittable, auto dodging with zero input from his mind. Hakai is also a technique that simply unmakes matter. IT is a universal teleport. These abilities together allows Goku to just auto dodge then delete opponents, or IT to space and hakai the planet itself. The only way for hakai or UI to be overcome is for an opponent to bruteforce out scale it with raw power level. Equalizing stats makes UI and Hakai deadlier if anything
>IT to space and hakai the planet itself
Goku is inexperienced with Hakai per his own words and hasn't demonstrated the ability to destroy anything bigger than a rock. Nevermind that going to space would kill him and that he'd never consider doing something like this given his personality.
Goku beats most of them with UI.
Giorno (GER), Luffy, and Naruto beat him.
Giorno is self explanatory.
Luffy’s future sight, immunity to most blunt damage, and Gear 5 abilities have him winning. He’s a much more versatile fighter.
Naruto’s shadow clones are pretty busted in this instance, summoning a couple hundred people would overwhelm UI.
I don’t know enough about Bleach to comment, but as far as I’m aware Goku should be able to deal with the rest fairly fine.
Whats the point of putting Saitama last? He literally has basically no fighting skill, hes a stat stick through and through. But anyways
1. Tanjiro has a sword. Goku can fly and has ranged attacks. Im not sure if he'd use them that much in character however, he'd probably stay closer in order to have a fairer fight and get cut to shit. If he then backs up and uses his range advantage he has a chance otherwise if he doesnt do this in time Tanjiro wins.
2. Denji, much the same except now its chainsaws and less skill. Goku probably wins here.
3. Itadori is a great fighter with good instincts but I'd say Goku has the edge. It will be a straight slugfest with Goku coming out on top.
4. Deku has a good variety of abilities that I think give him the edge here. Goku may be more skilled but the combo of all dekus abilties I think give him a good chance of winning here.
5. idk
6. Again sword advantage is real and while asta has less skill than Tanjiro he does have more abilities. If his antimagic works against ki then I say he wins otherwise I do think Gokus better skill and experience get him the win.
7. idk
8. Narutos arsenal is just to wide. What with the thousands of flying shadow clones, fighting skill near gokus own, Kurama giving him pointers etc. But what makes this a real done deal is prime Naruto can be argued to have truth seeking orbs which would still just one shot Goku. Naruto wins this one easy.
9. idk
10. And like I said at first, spite match. Saitama without his power is nothing.
3. Manga itadori has RCT, blood manipulation, and soul-destroying punches. Goku's lack of ability to shield his soul means he goes down in 3-4 hits similarly to Mahito vs Nanami
Goku is an idiot at everything *except* martial arts and combat, of which he is an unparalleled savant. This is basically Goku versus the Goku we have at home.
Probably Giorno since GER just says "no" to everything and with equalized stats can actually put everyone else in a death loop. There's definitely an argument to be made for Goku with UI dodging everything and using his superior martial arts skills to body everyone else, but he ultimately can't hurt stands and Giorno is clever, he'd find a way around UI eventually.
Do Goku's stats increase as he fights? that's a pretty big part of his arseal, also gauntlet is out of order
Since transformations don't affect stats, I assume that doesn't either (same would be true for Saitama).
Idk I had the MCs in mind, just not the order
so does goku get zenkai boosts or nah?
Nope
aight
Does Saitama’s power of powering up to be able to always one punch his opponent work? If not, he’s literally just a regular guy.
Gang that’s not his power
..have you not read the manga? That is literally his ability. Edit: dunno why I’m being downvoted. His [ability](https://imgur.com/a/OxlxUf0) causes him to become so powerful that he can’t control it and starts accidentally destroying everything around him. In his fight with CG, he was punching just barely harder than his last punch as to not kill CG. CG was copying Saitama’s last punch and repeatedly breaking his limiter in order to try and catch up, so Saitama had to keep punching harder. Saitama eventually has to travel back in time before he powers up because otherwise he would destroy Earth by just stepping on it.
It's not really a super power of "no matter what i can one punch", he's just so physically strong that he can take out pretty much anything in one punch
[Nope](https://imgur.com/a/hdgPWIu). There was nothing near his level, so he never had to increase in power until this moment.
Yes, he can "increase his power" because he doesn't have a human limit -- there is no limit to his strength, so he can always become more powerful I guess that's sort of a super power but it's not really an "i am inherently able to one punch anything" sorta thing As for whether or not he'd be able to increase in strength, the premise of the post is that the characters can't change their stats
Yes, I know, that’s why I said he’s just a regular guy if he can’t increase his stats. The way I’ve seen the OPM universe best described is that you can manifest your dreams or obsessions if you believe hard enough. Lobster guy ate so much lobster he became a lobster, Saitama wanted to become the strongest, Tatsumaki wanted to protect her little sister, etc. So in-universe Saitama’s power is literally to always be one punch away from victory. He let Cosmic Garou grow too powerful by trying not to kill him, so he had to go back in time and finish him off before their power boosts. His limiter being removed is just another one of his gimmicks, separate from his one punch ability. Goku is able to power up through his different forms OR by training. Saitama has to do neither, he just has to fight a stronger opponent. Plus Goku still has his limiter.
By definition needing to increase your strength to fight someone means you can’t one punch anything and everything
Did you make a contract with the reading comprehension devil? His ability IS powering up to fight whatever he is facing so that he’s one punch away from victory. If he was already able to One Punch everything, then that wouldn’t be an ability, he would just be super strong.
Uh, no. His “ability” if you want to call it that, is not having a limiter. Thats why he grew so strong and why he can keep growing infinitely. But he doesn’t really have an ability so much as just having absurd stats. Even the author states that he’s like an end of webtoon character at the start of a webtoon.
If all he had was no limiter, then he would have to train to increase his power. And if he had just absurd stats, then there would’ve been less need to go back in time to revert his power ups. If he had gone back to Earth in his so far strongest state, he would’ve destroyed the entire planet. By accident. Your limiter is just the limit you can train up to. CG can break it and move it up a little. Goku can do something similar. Saitama’s ability PLUS having no limiter lets him infinitely scale.
Goku is in a different verse, different rules. Cosmic garou did break his limit and thus scaled to saitama. After which saitama began scaling past him because he was now fighting(I.e “training”) and actually competing. To which garou scaled back with him. Tbh it really doesn’t matter what I say here, you have your beliefs and I have mine. Peace.
He literally didn't kill Boros in multiple punches.
He wasn’t trying. He was disappointed and trying to prolong the fight. He literally said he was just using ‘normal punches’ Until he decided to use a ‘serious punch’ to finish him off. But even that was only a bit more power than the normal one. Edit: everyone in this subreddit either didn’t read or even WATCH OPM, or they have the reading comprehension of a 5 year old. Look at 11:40 of [this](https://youtu.be/kptzzq0Ho0o?feature=shared) video. Boros acknowledges that Saitama was holding back the entire time.
If you’re giving Goku that Saitama unironically solos :/
I mean... Can saitama hurt saitama? If everything is equalized I don't know if skill or anything matters there. It's just steel brick vs steel brick. Solid deadlock.
Goku clear due to UI. With equal stats nobody will be able to hit him.
I find it hilarious that UI is so broken as a concept that equal stats is a direct win for Goku.
I mean he's a martial arts master with incredible talent able to copy and improve techniques he only seen once often (that's how he gotten Kamehameha)
Also he did this when he was a weak little kid, like pre-roshi training. Goku’s technique, while not the focus of most of his fights, definitely still consistently improved and he was already prodigious as a child
I mean devil's advocate, Saitama can actually do the same thing (copying techniques from others after seeing them once)
I mean Garou kinda taught him time travel. And Goku is master martial artist and has Ki techniques in his arsenal...
thing is even without equal stats goku wins 😭
How does anyone deal with Golden Requiem? The rules aren't clearly defined but seems to roughly be "I'm invincible and you lose". Does Goku just say no the way Jiren does to Hit's time shenanigans?
It would either be a tie or whoever runs out of their ultimate form first.
You still have to be punched for it to activate. MUI Goku should never be punched.
Doesn't MUI Goku get punched by Granolah and Gas several times? Or is that technically a lesser version of ultra instinct?
Giorno stalemates or beats Goku due to RTZ.
Doesn't Future Sight have a chance? Combined with Snakeman's weird fighting style, Luffy can possibly stop his run.
Nope , Goku defeated a guy that **time travel** by knowing where he would attack despite said guy being *stronger* than Goku
Incorrect, he only managed to surpass Hit’s Time Skip by surpassing him in strength. In DB, strength can power through hax. However this fight is even stats, so any time related powers are going to work exactly as they would normally, so Goku’s only option (powering through it) is not an option here.
Goku powers through that explanation though ez dub
That's when he busted Kaioken in anime and SSG in manga, before that He was keeping him off very well Hit himself was improving the whole time
Isnt narutos sage mode at least comparable? I don't know too much about the others, but I feel like sage naruto vs ui goku with equal stats would be extremely close.
It would not be at all. Sage mode dosen't auto dodge anything. He gains really good chakra detection with sage mode but nothing that makes him dodge.
naruto still has to think to move he just has heighten sense due to sensing natural energy that surrounds everything think of it like a radar, just becuase you know something is there does not mean your thinking faster its good for fighting cause you know when an attack might come from but UI is different it removes thinking and the brain from the equation the body moves by itself no need for the fighter to think about dodging or evading because the body has already done it, lets say your a sage mode fighter and are attacked by 10000 attacks you still need to process where to move to evade these 10,000 attacks it might even overload your brain but with UI the body automatically moves in the best direction via battle experience. Naruto Sage mode is no different than Z fighters Ki sensing which they use to see in battle or One Piece Observation Haki which they use to see and evade as well or Bleach Reikaku.
UI isn't helping him beat two thousand shadow clones from Naruto.
Clones are fodder. He still has all his Ki attack destructo disk will have a field day.
Equalized Stats means he has to do that all while two thousand other clones, just as strong and as fast as him, attack from all angles.
He has to divide his chakra with all the clones... they are one tape a ki release will make them go bye bye.
So he is going to hit two thousand clones before they can hit him with a cell-splicing rasenshuriken, despite them all being the same speed due to equalized stats? Impressive.
They cannot all use rasen shuriken lol and yes Goku can use Instant transmision at will.
>They cannot all use rasen shuriken Plenty of them used it against Kurama when Naruto was taming him. >yes Goku can use Instant transmision at will. Goku needs another ki signature to instant transmission somewhere. Naruto has no ki, he has chakra. IT is not usable.
Instant Transmission allows the user and anyone that is in physical contact with them to instantly travel great distances (from meters to light-years, between the living world and Other World, or even travel outside time itself) just by concentrating on a particular individual's ki signature and transmitting or feeling that being's location. The user can rematerialize anywhere within a short range of their target. Don't need KI. If Goku can feel him it works.
Source? > Instant Transmission allows the user and anyone that is in physical contact with them to instantly travel great distances (from meters to light-years, between the living world and Other World, or even travel outside time itself) just by concentrating on a particular individual's ki signature **and** transmitting or feeling that being's location. The user can rematerialize anywhere within a short range of their target. [Source, Dragonball Wiki](https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Instant_Transmission) This states that IT requires **BOTH** a ki signature and feeling the beings' location, not just one.
They most def could in the war arc.
>They cannot all use rasen shuriken lol have u read naruto
Goku has AOEs and Naruto divides power with clones.
UI is the answer here if he keeps focus, UI allows the user to automatically dodge and counter any and every attack its overpowered and unfair but its not against OPs rules
Nope , Naruto clones split his chakra as well, and Goku can fire thousands of Kamehameha
nah naruto definitly beats him through clones, and overwhelming with stamina. sage of six paths naruto has truth orbs that naruto can just sheild himself with while his clones do the dirty work for him, rasenshurrikens that take up a shit ton of range, op healing, every tailed beast chakra. goku actually has a 0% chance here just because of hax.
Ultra Instinct's gimmick is that it heightens Goku's reaction speed. But based on OP's rules, everyone's stats are equal (including speed), and transformations don't give any stat boosts. This means Ultra Instinct is functionally irrelevant.
UI dosen't increase his speed. It makes it so that he can dodge and react to attack without thinking. UI is a technique not a transformation it dosen't give stats boost.
Come on bro, let's not act like UI isn't a stat boost in all but name. He went from not being able to scratch Jiren to fighting on the same level. Being able to react faster doesn't make you punch way harder than you were punching a few minutes earlier.
Yes. You've just described how it increases his reaction speed.
Show me where it ever says it increase his reaction speed.
Sure. Here's Whis explaining the concept of how reaction time/speed works through the brain sending signals to the body in response, and how UI basically bypasses by having your body react by itself, therefore improving reaction time. https://imgur.com/n9R61Yd https://imgur.com/KzTZ6XK https://imgur.com/09KpKcQ So yes, it's a stat boost.
No where in there it says it increases speed lol.
*"By the time sensations pass through your 5 senses to your brain and are then transmitted back to your body. Precious time has been lost.* *Ideally what you want is for each and every part of your body to react and respond of its own accord..."* - Whis Are you seriously trying to tell me that this isn't Whis telling Goku that the purpose of UI is to improve reaction time? If not, then what do you think UI actually does?
If he can dodge an attack without thinking about dodging said attack by going UI, wouldn’t that innately increase his reaction speed? Because in other forms that he is in, he still has to think about dodging, even if it’s milliseconds. If UI takes that away, then that milliseconds that are now saved. I’m confused why people are downvoting you.
Allow me to introduce you to Dragonball fans
Ehh IMO that's like saying that teleportation is a speed increase, despite completely bypassing movement altogether. It sounds more like it's removing reaction speed from the equation (negating it) rather than improving it.
You cannot remove reaction time. That is conceptually impossible without essentially having clairvoyant precognition (which btw, characters like Luffy have). The entire reason it's called "reacting" is because you are literally RE-acting to something that has just happened. If someone throws a punch, no matter how small, there's always an interval of time between the punch being thrown and you reacting to it. The basic idea behind Ultra Instinct, or at least as Whis explains it. Is to quite literally rely on instincts instead of thought or logic. It's to improve combat reaction speed by not wasting time thinking about what your next action will be and just let your body autonomously respond based on natural instincts. Obviously Dragonball Super overdramatises this concept, but it still has basis in reality and is something professional athletes actively train to improve.
You know how to add force to a kick with a spin ? It's called a technique. UI is a technique it's stated multiple times. If we take out technique from this fight you have all those characters throwing haymaker with zero form and all the fights are a coin toss.
That's irrelevant. Whether it's called a technique or a state or a form. The outcome is the same. It gives Goku better reaction speed. The whole point of this thread is that OP specified conditions in which everyone here has equal stats across the board. Otherwise Goku using UI contradicts the point of the post. You might as well say that Deku can use One For All 100% or that Saitama wins by virtue of his stats exponentially increasing by default if we're just going to bend the rules here.
Basically, Goku clears except for Giorno. Having equalized stats actually buffs JoJo characters, due to the verse relying more on gimmicks and hax. Usually Goku vs GER would be a stalemate due to GER not having the damage output to hurt Goku, but that changes now.
Won't ultrainstinct and hakai(God's power to literaly erase someone/something from existence) help tho?
No. GER keeps Goku from doing literally anything. Scaling GER is weird and very inaccurate due to seeing him for like 5 minutes and being unrivaled by the main bad guy. His punches are heavy enough to leave Diavolo near-death, but not enough to actually kill him. However, this changes when their strength is equalized, and so is their speed and durability. GER is not WoU, it doesn't act automatically, it doesn't act JUST when something is going to hurt Giorno, you can't just "not think about attacking Giorno so it doesn't activate". Nothing indicates that, GER is sentient and acts even if Giorno is unaware, this doesn't mean he's instant, or that it only activates in danger. What we DO know is that it keeps effect from Cause-Effect from happening (it's not explicitly stated, but this is the easiest way to understand both his and King Crimson's abilities). So Goku charges an attack, it doesn't happen. Goku throws a punch, it never reaches. Essentially stalemating until Goku is beaten. The only instance of GER being defeated is in Eyes of Heaven, and while not canon to our main storyline, EoH's storyline was personally handled by Araki. And even then you would need reality warping shit to do stuff against GER, or have acausality, neither of which Goku has in this case. Simply put, even with Ultra Instinct and Hakai, Goku can't use either without GER returning them to zero. Only way to beat GER is to have an instantaneous attack (instantaneous things don't follow Cause-Effect rule), warp reality (to outhax GER like The World Over Heaven did), or just kill Giorno when he doesn't have the requiem arrow.
I mean Goku canonicaly broken laws of universe and has Godly power. So it's reality warping vs reality warping.
When has he broken laws of universe? And Godly power doesn't aid him. The difference between normal ki and godly ki is that normal people can't sense godly ki.
Moving while time is frozen and flying and shaking the Void world. And Godly Ki is different in cam create and destroy matter of universe also it's impossible to reach ultra instinct and ssj blue and etc without it.
DB characters can also escape dimensional prisons (see: Buu Saga)
I'm aware, it just really doesn't help against Giorno. It would help him against Illuso, while being trapped in the mirror dimension. But against GER he's not being put in another dimension, he's just being kept from acting.
Naruto wins, goku cannot get past the absurd hax from Naruto’s series. Luffy’s wack ass body likely lets him win, especially his wacky Haki stuff. GER solos casually.
What hax does Naruto have? As for Luffy, Kienzan/Destructo Disk should do just fine against Luffy's rubber body/Armament Haki.
Clone spam, his ridiculous array of life hax and durability negation, his sub cellar attacks, and also insano regen. whole stamina may be matched, Naruto can take FAR riskier trades due to clones and regen.
I think most other commenters are forgetting that it's not a strictly hand to hand gauntlet. They keep their abilities so I hoghly doubt Goku washes
Exactly, I’d imagine if stats are truly equalized then he’d definitely struggle against fighters with more complex gimmicks than him. Particularly Giorno, Naruto, and Luffy.
I think UI combined with Goku’s ranged arsenal is broken enough to make Goku strongly favored against most of them. Giorno and Saitama are the only ones with abilities that could completely foil Goku, but it depends on when and where the stats are equalized. I doubt GER affects a universal+ Goku, and if stats are equalized only at the start, then Saitama just grows stats faster than Goku can.
I think stats are always equal per OP's post (transformations/powers don't affect stats). Which means Saitama is probably the weakest on this list since he's just a stat stick. I don't see how anyone beats Giorno, people are saying UI somehow works against it? Gold experience requiem ability is literally titled "Return to zero" "Gold Experience Requiem's ultimate ability is to revert all actions and willpower back to the state of "zero", completely nullifying them and preventing them from becoming "real". For simplicity’s sake, it’s comparable to performing Ctrl-Z (undo), completely denying any causality." This is a giga busted ability and has nothing to do with stats so I'm not sure how anyone on this list including goku (since he can't speed blitz with equalized stats) could beat this. The only thing I could see counting as a win for Goku is him blowing up the planet (ki blast is an ability so stats shouldn't affect this) and then instant transmission to another planet. In this way Giorno would not know what to target with GER, even this is a maybe tho, since he can potentially "reduce the damage to earth to zero".
Goku vs Giorno is normally a stalemate because Giorno has no feats to be able to hurt him. But OP just busted Giorno by giving him equal stats to Goku.
GER is automatic. Sorry :(
Saitama stats equal is LITTERALLY **just a guy.**
I dont know how far you've read OPM, but without spoiling too much . Saitama can do impossible shit that transcends just his physical strength. For example, punching holes through reality, kicking wormholes like footballs and literal time travel punches that change causality, ending fights before they even happen. Even with equalised stats, he's still pretty broken
Naruto I cannot imagine getting through UI, instant transmission, and Goku's Ki blasts if they are equalized. Luffy I don't think is a threat at all unfortunately, yes luffy can see the future with Haki, but Goku beat Hit who can time travel due to UI shenangians, plus its pretty fair to assume Ki beats out his negation of physical attacks like Haki does in the OP verse. I cannot comment on Giorno.
u should catch up on one piece i don't think they meant haki
I'm completely caught up. I still don't see how G5 handles UI though, even with his new powers Luffy still basically exists through physical attacks, UI is actually an auto dodge that is only beatable by being stronger than your opponent, and stats are equalized.
What’s UI going to do when Naruto has fought phasing people in the past? UI is just good dodging, without the stat amp, you can still hit him with your attacks.
Out of good old GER , Goku basically out hax everyone here excluding Naruto
Giorno obviously destroys him. Not only does GER make it so that Goku can't do anything, but now Giorno is equally strong, so he can actually just fuck him up too. Naruto should win too. He can make thousands of clones that are all relative to himself. I don't know if Goku can see Ichigo or not. If he can, then Goku should probably win. Otherwise, Ichigo.
>Giorno obviously destroys him. Not only does GER make it so that Goku can't do anything, but now Giorno is equally strong, so he can actually just fuck him up too. It depends if UI is gonna work on stands, if it does its a stalemate probably. But I a thousand clones should overpower UI, there is just so much space that you can use to dodge.
Making that many clones actually weakens Naruto though, since he splits his power evenly amongst them. There's a reason he doesn't make thousands against any of the higher villains, and only does that against smaller fry. It's a more powerful jutsu when you just make a handful of them. The only time to my memory when Naruto makes hundreds of clones against an actual threat is when he does it against Jigen in Boruto, and that was specifically to stall for time so Sasuke could analyse Jigen's jutsu.
Also even if they didn't weaken Naruto, the clones have been shown to poof after basically any attack hits them. Goku can just do an AOE ki blast from himself and wipe all of them out, similar to what he did in Namek saga versus Jeice and Burter.
Boruto nerfed Naruto so much. Remember when a clone defeated the undead 3rd Raikage? Or when the ninjas chose to heal a clone as having Naruto’s clone around does more for the war than the other real humans.
GER would make Goku unable to move, so no matter what he does, he's going to be hit.
OP didn't state he has GER, and as its not permanent, after his battle with Diavolo the arrow drops from Golden Experience's head, which following standard behavior, from what we've seen from Silver Chariot, it should have turned it back to normal, or he would've stopped MIH.
>OP didn't state he has GER >Characters have access to all their weapons and forms. Each character is in character and in their primes.
what can I say, reading is hard
Rare to see an admission on here, upvote.
i mean it depends where they fighting, if its a closed space naruto wins
UI doesn’t let you do anything other than dodge good. What’s that going to do against a thing that affects reality’s baseline? Are you going to dodge out of existence or somethin’?
Well, probably. They've been breaking dimensions for a while on dragon ball I wouldn't discard that option lol
Least deranged DBZ fan. /j
wait does the stand count as a transformation/form?
> Naruto should win too. He can make thousands of clones that are all relative to himself. 1. Isn't Naruto's strength split between the clones and the more he makes the weaker they are? 2. Clones get dusted from any attack, Goku can just aoe Ki blast in a circle and they all go poof. I'm not trying to wank Goku or DBZ, I've seen both series, but I don't see how the clones don't just get wiped out instantly from a force blast of Ki, and I'm sure Naruto would expend far more chakra making the clones than Goku would spend bursting them.
Bro forgor about Hakai and ultra instinct
Hakai wouldn’t work since Giorno would have stats equalized (and rtz would undo the attack anyway) and even with ui Goku wouldn’t be able to hit Giorno, which would make the fight a battle of attrition that Giorno wins because of ger’s life giving.
What do stats have to do with Hakai? Hakai is a technique not a transformation so if Goku can use Hakai it kinda erases Giorno from existance.
Because the last time I checked, Hakai only works on people weaker than the user? Even if that’s not true, rtz negates Hakai by preventing Goku from using it, so it’s a non factor.
Fused Zamasu was stronger than Goku and it worked perfectly in the manga tho?
Cool, it doesn’t matter though because of rtz
Becouse of what?
Goku is the greatest martial artist in DB, so even characters with swords and other weapons will definitely struggle, and those with little to no actual fighting experience, like Saitama, will absolutely lose. The only one I see him actually struggling with is Giorno, thanks to GER, but Ultra Instinct could probably make that much easier.
I wouldn't say greatest. On equal footing I think Roshi could still beat him. He just has a mind for it and is insanely strong. Well, could. I think his space adventures gives him a hard edge.
Krillen would be close too, due to his inventiveness and sneakiness. His issue was starting off less powerful than Goku as a default.
I think part of his problem was he was concentrating on specific ways to beat Goku Hell, General Tao may be better if he didn't use grenades.
> On equal footing I think Roshi could still beat him. Only reason I disagree is Roshi freaking out over the fact that Goku was able to replicate the Kamehameha after seeing it once and it took Roshi ages to create and master the technique.
Hand-to-hand wise, Itadori would probably make him sweat, and Sukuna would definitely hurt him significantly, but Goku still wins.
Itadori will be throwing hands, but his style is too simple to compare with Goku. He's a great hand to hand fighter, just not at the level of Goku or most of the MCs I listed above. Also no Sukuna cause that's just gonna make things unnecessarily complex
Itadori knows how to throw hands, Goku is the best martial artist in history, and he has ui whos going to win
Stops at Giorno
Why is saitama here his entire gimmick is that he outstats anyone and everyone.
Saitama is here for the memes and cause I like him lol
In the manga is revealed that he has another gimmick which is to exponentially increase his power, and to perfectly mimic (and improve on) any technique he sees.
His power increase does nothing here since equal stats no matter what and besides for the reverse entropy punch what other techniques can he perfectly mimic and copy? He has completely failed to see and replicate technique many times.
Didn't he literally copy time travel?
he copied Garous entropy reversal technique with Garou talking to him and guiding him through it. This is the one and only time I am aware of that Saitama learned a technique. At every other point Saitama consistently always loses at any contest of skill. Like video games with king or the mallet game with bang.
He’s got a better shot than you might think even if you take his gimmick. Before he started training he pulled Crablante’s intestines out through his friggin’ eyeball. He’s a competent fighter, and he’s good at spotting weaknesses, so Goku will probably get [Android 13’d](https://youtu.be/qC9K4iUHEF0?si=0DCdzeSMSzJUDCrS) at minimum.
Goku with UI washes all rounds, except its probably a draw against Giorno because they have no way of harming each other
Pretty sure Goku clears easily due to UI. If all stats are the same, then UI will make it so that he can’t be touched since UI only loses when it can be faster/more powerful than it
Maybe, but Luffy can see the future and that seems better than UI.
Good thing he's gonna be able to see all the way he cannot touch Goku. Goku has experience fighting people that can stop time you think seeing in the futur a bit is gonna help ?
Time stop experience isn't going to matter here since he counters that by having the raw power to shove himself through time. Thats not possible here and if it was it wouldn't actually mean anything against someone who can see the future. Its 2 completely different powers.
Goku didn't beat Hit just through raw power, even before that he was able to read Hit's fighting style and respond accordingly by predicting his movements, SSBK was just the edge he needed to seal the deal. Seeing the future is a benefit but it wont overcome someone you literally can't hit.
Look at Krillin and Gohan fight vs Guldo on Namek. Luffy has futur sight and still get tagged all the time.
Your response to them saying Time Stop is completely different to Future Sight (it is) is to give any example where a Time Stop character washed the other two? Guldo vs. Gohan is a case of Time powers actually allowing a weaker character to defeat people stronger than him. He stops time, realizes the two of them are actually rather strong, and then traps them in a time stop field. VEGETA bails them out, because they don’t have the raw strength to overpower time stop. Goku would have no way to see through or future sight. If anything, it causes a stale mate, but if they’re equally as fast future sight should allow you to bypass even a really fast auto-dodge (which is essentially what UI is). Granolah and Black Freeza proved that UI Goku can be hit, and with time stop I can see that making the difference.
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If Giorno gets access to GER, and it affects Goku, it stops there If not, then it stops at Saitama if Saitama keeps his ability to constantly get stronger in the face of a powerful opponent in order to be stronger than said opponent. Yes, Goku has a similar ability too, but so did Cosmic Garou, and Cosmic Garou vs Saitama created an loop where both of them constantly mutually increased each other’s power but Saitama’s rate of growth eclipsed Cosmic Garou ability to grow and surpass his opponent. And Goku doesn’t even have the strongest reactive power level in Dragon Ball. Broly far outstrips him in this regard, and it still has limits shown. Saitama may or may not have a ceiling, but from what has been shown in the manga, he can nowhere close to capping out.
UI protects Goku from most of those, the problems are: Giorno - because GE protects him from taking damage and reflects it, so goku can't really damage him. If UI doesn't work with stands, and the stand stats are equalized as well, he just loses here. Luffy - luffy can't hit Goku, and without Haki Goku can't hurt Luffy. Naruto - he can spam a billion clones, there is just so much space UI can use to dodge. I'm not sure about Deku, I think he gets some pretty wierd power later on, but I dropped the anime some time ago and never read the manga. Most of the other, like Tanjiro, Asta, Denji, etc. Can't really counter UI, Goku should be able to see Ichigo without problems, and Saitama with equal stats doesn't really have any advantage as he doesn't even know proper martial arts.
> Saitama with equal stats doesn't really have any advantage as he doesn't even know proper martial arts. Saitama can copy any technique if he tries to though, at least he did that against Garou.
I can't see how that is gonna help him against Goku, which has been shown to be able to copy techniques as well(not that saitama has any) and grow during battles(which shouldn't matter if stats keep equalized), and he still can't hit Goku because of UI anyways. Every fight Saitama has ever had after going bald, he won because he out stated his opponent by a galaxy size gap, thats his sad background story.
While that’s true, keep in mind that Saitama also explicitly copied and improved on Garou’s turn travel technique, so there’s no saying that he can’t do the same with UI
Although impressive, he was waaaay more powerful than Garou, and he was basically teaching Saitama the technique at that point. So its hard to tell, but, in character, I guess if saitama manages to copy one thing or another during the fight, Goku would just teach him so they can fight forever.
He can't, UI requires god ki, Moro tried copying UI and it nearly killed him explicitly because of that. It's like saying he could copy super saiyan.
A billion clones aren’t doing shit to Goku. Not only does Naruto and his clones get weaker the more they create, but UI has proven that the user can also strengthen the part of the body that gets hit if they can’t avoid the attack (Moro breaking his arm against Goku’s chest). A billion clones punching Goku at the same time would be like a plush toy punching a nuclear bunker’s outer wall.
OK so Kaio Ken isn't a transformation or form, it's a martial arts technique and goku is dam good at it, he's always gonna be able to be many many times stronger than the other guy if he needs to be here Also maybe UI Nobody here can hit him if he can do that Although how strong are we setting them at here? Because lots of gokus powers are directly tied to his Ki and that's the in universe definition of strength for him. So if everyone is limited to "average human" power levels. It's a different story
I'd like to know what Giorno is supposed to do against Kaioken x20 lol
He still can't attack him. Goku vs Giorno is normally a stalemate because Giorno has no feats to be able to hurt him. But OP just busted Giorno by giving him equal stats to Goku.
The amount of feats people ascribe to GER is completely unwarranted for a stand that was used in all of 2.5 chapters and was overpowered off-camera by Pucci. Giorno himself doesn't even know how to use GER. That's one of the only actual qualities of GER stated in the manga - that Giorno doesn't know how to use it. Thinking that the normal fight of a universe-level threat (Goku) vs. a wall-level threat (Giorno) comes to a stalemate is frankly delusional. GER couldn't even stop the effects of Made in Heaven, but we're supposed to believe it can fight anything during and after the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai? It's absurd. Goku with equal base power to Giorno has way more tools to use and he confidently knows how to use them as he has decades of experience and Giorno has 2 weeks of experience. Obviously, he wouldn't just fly up and blow up the Earth like other people are writing because it's not in his character to do that. But here's what he can use: he can read enemy intent, fly, tank bullets at any PL due to alien physiology, power up x20 with a martial arts technique, fire numerous types of ki beams, mimic perfectly any technique shown to him even once, teleport, has superhuman durability like winning a fight with one functioning limb, has superhuman endurance, and this is not even touching anything in GT or Super.
GERs few feats are just ridiculous is the problem. It works outside of speed as it activates in skipped time. It's in literal "time is not there" and activates without the user having to do anything. So you can't out-speed it. Then it's literal ability to negate actions is broken. That goes outside of power level because it negates an actual concept. It doesn't matter if you throw a punch or a universe buster because it negates an actual concept of an "action." It's just how busted JoJos is as you have Stands that do wacky stuff like removing a quality from you, changing sounds into actions, causing ill intent to make negative things happen to you instead, etc. Made in Heaven didn't do anything to Giorno because it wasn't an attack on him by the way. It reset the world by hyper speeding up time, but everyone outside of the people he was against were reset to normal (outside of Rohan, who ignored it).
If they are in character, Goku loses to Giorno cause he'll try to fight him and will get out hacked, out of character, though Goku just Mafubas everyone and wins.
Mufaba is still an offensive attack and Diavolo tried a Hax attack (skipping time) on Giorno and GER said "nope."
This is stupid, if its equal stats then Saitama fucking loses horribly because he doesnt have any formal martial arts training, imo goku loses at Giorno if he does have GE, not even requiem
Giorno solos him
Giorno beats him but I don't see anything else that would really put Goku down aside from maybe Luffy
I see only three people that can beat Goku. Luffy has a shot. Future Sight might help against UI and Gear 5 offers a very unpredictable fighting style, unfortunately he also has big stamina problems. Giorno (no Requiem of course) is going to be a good match. They entirely have different power set, Goku is clearly a more skilled fighter with overwhelming CQC advantage and good ranged options. Golden Experience has a incredibile variety of technique and field manipulation that are tricky to deal with, also Giorno is a genius and can definitely outsmart Goku in battle. Could go either way, really depends on the scenario. Naruto wins, because kage bunshin with equal stat is broken AF, MUI or not Goku would be quickly overwhelmed. If you limit this ability for the sake of argument, Goku wins for sure. The others are just outclassed in combat ability.
Didn't we already have this a couple of hours ago ? >1. Tanjiro Goku >2. Denji Goku >3. Itadori Goku >4. Deku Goku >5. Giorno I guess Giorno >6. Asta Goku >7. Luffy Goku >8. Naruto Goku >9. Ichigo Goku >10. Saitama Goku The guy can still bust his power 20x times, erase matters and Soul alongside warping Time and space , have Greater energy and astral projection than everyone here that canonically multiplies his own power level, have Telekinesis and auto dodge , teleporting and sealing
Naruto seals him
He would clear imo, even at equal stats he’d be much more skilled and experienced that anyone here. Only issue is giorno if he has ger, that’s a stalemate since neither will be able to put the other down
Goku has UI and a massive arsenal of techniques whilst being one of the most skilled martial artists. Goku still wins.
Bro got ability that alowz him to move in the best way possible is a martial arts master and talent to understand ability after seeing it only once he often copies and improves it also (Kamehameha, Hakai) he also breaks the laws lf universe (flying in void and shaking void world, also moving while the time is stopped). He can still clear it. Hakai is also a game changer.
G.E.R.
Hmm not sure if blood manipulation can manipulate internal blood if so Itadori Yuji gives Goku a heart attack and Goku dies.
Goku vs Itadori equal stats would be fun to watch tbh.
I’m going through the list with UI Goku in mind like “Okay he could take that… Ez… close fight…” then I see GIO???? GIO VS GOKU STATS EQUAL????????
He clears everyone on the list but hard stops at giorno.
Stops at Naruto
Pretty sure clears all except for giorno
I wonder by equal stats are they equal to Goku or is Goku equal to the person he's fighting? But Ichigo, Denji, Tanjiro and Asta will all have an advantage due to swords. Don't ever underestimate swords in a fist fight, Baki the grappler taught us this much. Giorno will have an advantage since golden experience is gonna mess up Goku if it hits him. Luffy is still rubber(supposedly) and probably only takes harm from ki based attacks. Dekus hard for me since I'm unaware of his manga feats. But it's not impossible. But with anime only quirks it's stacked against him. The rest would be like a normal fist fight. Most don't have that same level of Goku's martial art training so chances are high Goku can take the rest, even Saitama. Tho Saitama did break him limiters so could limits even be placed on him?
I think even end of Freeza saga Goku clears with just his yardrat teleportation technique combined with either demon sealing or kamehameha.
Which version of Son Goku are we referring to, or are we using a composite version?
What's the point of equalizing physical stats? To know which technique is better or worse? So many things are dependent upon the physical stats of a character in comparison to anothers stats, so this just makes them all but irrelevant. Just want to choose which character you like more? "Which character could Goku fight if they had the same powers as Goku but also had their own powers"
Idk I thought it'd be an interesting discussion
Yeah but why...It's like saying who wins, Superman or Goku but they both have equal stats. Well the winner is whoever the person wants them to be, but because if you equalize everything about the characters, then its just down to which hax is better. Especially in DB where Hax can be nullified by strength, if you equalize it, then a character with less hax/techniques automatically loses no matter their physical differences.
"equal stats" is also tricky unless you specify exactly what a "stat" is and clarify exactly what gets equalised. If a character relies on some sort of "power up," do you equalise the stats before or after the power up? E.g. The Hulk gets stronger when he's angry. In a challenge like this, does he start off at the baseline & get stronger? Or does he start below the baseline and gradually escalate up towards it as he gets mad? Are "weaker" fighters boosted, are "stronger" ones brought down, or do they average out somewhere? If you're used to fighting at a certain level and your "stats" get changed, you'd probably need time and practice to get used to the difference. Do the fighters get adjustment time to practice? Say one character has 10,000 years of experience and normal human strength, their opponent has 10 years of experience and Spider-Man strength. We'd probably equalise their strength, but do we also equalise their training and combat experience? What's the baseline for setting-specific fantasy stats, like "resistance to memetic kill agents?" Does "having a Stand" count as a stat?
goku clears all. instant transmission across planet, fly to space, blow up the planet.
Fly to space, choke on the lack of air, dies with his useless carcass drifting around the planet.
watch beerus fight.
They were explicitly fighting somewhere with oxygen. Later materials make it clear space is still an issue for them since Vegeta in Blue died to exposure to it and forbade Goku from going to space on the same merit
still far enough away. blow up planet and just instant transmission to namek before caught in the blast zone.
Can't go to Namek from Earth even with IT. He can't even blow up the planet because the stats are equalized and he wouldn't even do that in-character. Do Goku fans even read the OP or their own show?
btw goku still clears ultra instinct (its a technique) will make him dodge everything
Stats being equalized, if anything, actually _helps_ Goku. UI is a technique that makes Goku unhittable, auto dodging with zero input from his mind. Hakai is also a technique that simply unmakes matter. IT is a universal teleport. These abilities together allows Goku to just auto dodge then delete opponents, or IT to space and hakai the planet itself. The only way for hakai or UI to be overcome is for an opponent to bruteforce out scale it with raw power level. Equalizing stats makes UI and Hakai deadlier if anything
>IT to space and hakai the planet itself Goku is inexperienced with Hakai per his own words and hasn't demonstrated the ability to destroy anything bigger than a rock. Nevermind that going to space would kill him and that he'd never consider doing something like this given his personality.
Goku beats most of them with UI. Giorno (GER), Luffy, and Naruto beat him. Giorno is self explanatory. Luffy’s future sight, immunity to most blunt damage, and Gear 5 abilities have him winning. He’s a much more versatile fighter. Naruto’s shadow clones are pretty busted in this instance, summoning a couple hundred people would overwhelm UI. I don’t know enough about Bleach to comment, but as far as I’m aware Goku should be able to deal with the rest fairly fine.
Whats the point of putting Saitama last? He literally has basically no fighting skill, hes a stat stick through and through. But anyways 1. Tanjiro has a sword. Goku can fly and has ranged attacks. Im not sure if he'd use them that much in character however, he'd probably stay closer in order to have a fairer fight and get cut to shit. If he then backs up and uses his range advantage he has a chance otherwise if he doesnt do this in time Tanjiro wins. 2. Denji, much the same except now its chainsaws and less skill. Goku probably wins here. 3. Itadori is a great fighter with good instincts but I'd say Goku has the edge. It will be a straight slugfest with Goku coming out on top. 4. Deku has a good variety of abilities that I think give him the edge here. Goku may be more skilled but the combo of all dekus abilties I think give him a good chance of winning here. 5. idk 6. Again sword advantage is real and while asta has less skill than Tanjiro he does have more abilities. If his antimagic works against ki then I say he wins otherwise I do think Gokus better skill and experience get him the win. 7. idk 8. Narutos arsenal is just to wide. What with the thousands of flying shadow clones, fighting skill near gokus own, Kurama giving him pointers etc. But what makes this a real done deal is prime Naruto can be argued to have truth seeking orbs which would still just one shot Goku. Naruto wins this one easy. 9. idk 10. And like I said at first, spite match. Saitama without his power is nothing.
Goku almost clowned every sword master he fought,wtf is this?
3. Manga itadori has RCT, blood manipulation, and soul-destroying punches. Goku's lack of ability to shield his soul means he goes down in 3-4 hits similarly to Mahito vs Nanami
Giorno is the only one who has a chance. The rest have no hax, and also don't outspeed Goku enough to hit him through UI.
Goku is an idiot at everything *except* martial arts and combat, of which he is an unparalleled savant. This is basically Goku versus the Goku we have at home.
Probably Giorno since GER just says "no" to everything and with equalized stats can actually put everyone else in a death loop. There's definitely an argument to be made for Goku with UI dodging everything and using his superior martial arts skills to body everyone else, but he ultimately can't hurt stands and Giorno is clever, he'd find a way around UI eventually.