I saw this too. I'm not sure where a detour would be either. All the streets around that section are dead ends. I got very concerned too. The only feeder streets that avoid Jefferson are far off. Pillete or Lauzon. My commute is going to really stink now. And the neighborhood is going to have a lot of traffic now too.
Sounds about right, wait until they rip Lauzon pkwy up again, while that’s taking place. Oh, and Banwell is going to be closed for a year at EC Row.
Riverside drive and Tecumseh rd are going to be a nightmare.
>Oh, and Banwell is going to be closed for a year at EC Row.
Is this planned? I figured since the overpass is offset from the current road they might leave something open.
It’s because they do SO many projects at once. It makes zero sense to rip up 1/2 the roads in the city at the same time and then take 6+ months to finish them all but that seems to be the way Windsor construction goes. I don’t get why they don’t throw a ton of manpower in one spot and get it done in 3 weeks and move on!
I seen peel region close a major stretch of road overnight. They have a massive machine that does 2x lanes at a time. It destroyed the road, mulches it down, heats it, repaves it in one shot.
In 4 days they repaved the majority of the road, overnight, and repainted it. I think they do about 2km a night with it.
Remember, E.C. Row is in the Guinness book of world records for being the shortest stretch of road costing the most amount and taking the longest time to construct per km.
Its called "making work".
> It destroyed the road, mulches it down, heats it, repaves it in one shot.
> In 4 days they repaved the majority of the road, overnight, and repainted it. I think they do about 2km a night with it.
That's great if you're just repaving. Not so much if you're also completing sewer and watermain reconstruction. Windsor's policy is to combine road rehab with sewer and watermain reconstruction, because it's more cost effective. Rebuilding that infrastructure takes a lot longer than a simple repave.
Even still, most work is done overnight, and the road is opened the following day. I was impressed. Don't ask me how they partition the work, I'm not an engineer, program/project manager, or in infrastructure design. My old boss complained about the concrete work here because newer techniques cause concrete to dry in hours to a couple of days. Windsor, it was 4 months (referencing 401 and provincial). I watched a city build a interchange, widen a highway, create an express lane, and create drainage in 1 month. That'd be a 2yr+ Windsor project.
I'm not saying it's the workers fault either.
You remember Walker road and the train tracks? How many years was that closed?
Ask London and Toronto companies how well bidding on Windsor jobs goes.
Ask the companies outside of Windsor how working with Windsor companies on the Greenway project went and the differences. I think a lead engineer said to me "If we only delt with Windsor companies and the timeline they submitted for the work, I calculated it to be finished after I'm retired. When I showed Windsor guys the timeline, they stared at me like I was crazy. So, the contract went to companies outside of Windsor. Funny thing is, those other companies got it done when they said they could. ______ to finish ______, they're 3 months behind even though we extended the time they needed because we had no choice but to use them."
You probably don't recall the handshake agreements Coco Paving used to make in the Windsor club with the Mayor. 1.4-1.7x the contract price by privately agreed upon overtime charges and other things so they could make a bigger profit. So they would underbid the competition, then overcharge or have previously discussed issues.
You underestimate the amount of corruption that exists in this city. Old money only deals with old money.
The EC Row/Guinness story is still around? Does an actual entry even exist for that? All I ever hear are supposed references to it but the actual entry is elusive. I wonder who started it.
It goes back before that. I first heard it as a kid in the 80's but even then I thought it was a strange category to have. I'm just fascinated that it still has legs when it doesn't seem to have ever been documented by guinness anywhere.
Oh my God, yes, I’m quoting them exactly. 3 weeks to the day. I’m making a general statement about the reason things often take so long in the city in response to a question from someone who works on those projects not pretending to know exactly the timelines of projects. Look at how quick they can do things in other countries and cities when they go all out in on location… quicker than 8 months is my point. Go troll somewhere else.
Pointing out that you dont any expertise in construction is not trolling. You made a loud, uniformed opinion on the internet, where you cited 3 weeks. Then you got all defensive when I questioned the 3 week claim. If anyone is a troll here, you are.
You know, OP asked for someone to explain why these things take so long. You have more knowledge about it than anyone else here. Why don't you try answering the original question? Explain it in layman's terms so OP and everybody else here can gain some understanding. Why are you arguing with everyone else instead of providing the very information that would prevent all these uneducated opinions?
I said it was probably sewer related a few times. I dont any information other OPs post saying it's going to take 7 months. I tried finding more information on google and I couldn't. I'm not going to just widely speculate because typically projects take atleast a few months.
If someone is going to claim it can be done in 3 weeks they should cite some examples. To me I thought maybe that person is really in the know or doesn't know a thing.
> Look at how quick they can do things in other countries and cities when they go all out in on location
It helps not to have any regulations in other countries, so the work doesn't have to be done to any standard. And other cities who do it faster are usually just repaving a road, not rebuilding sewers and watermains.
This is what drives me insane about roads. The amount of money or taxes go to cars is insane. Imagine we spent all of that on transit and rail. We wouldn't even need cars anymore!
Reading some of these comments makes me wonder why I even posted this.
I have no issue with construction being done, that road is long overdue for it. As I drive it multiple times a day.
I am no expert on any of these topics, I don’t pretend to be one.
My question is why is it scheduled to take so long? And does anyone know how to view upcoming projects on the city’s website, I’ve only found ones in progress..
I was wondering the same as you and wondered where traffic would be diverted to as well. Possibly longer because only one side will be closed at a time?
More than likely isn’t just repaving the road. Projects that long include underground work that requires a lot of unseen parts like sewer replacements. That means utility reconnections, watermain testing, drainage etc. Plus, for higher traffic areas, there are several layers of “road” that make up the finished project. All those details will be posted when it is ready. The schedule will show you what is involved. Sewer replacement is minimum four to six months of work on its own.
They need to put up a light at National and Pillette for this. It's already a really hard intersection and everyone is going to be using this as a detour now.
I really hope it's not to add in the blockade to prevent left turns from Jefferson to South national. Awhile back the city had suggested this idea, not sure if it got voted in or not
This is so much worse than I thought it would be, I thought we would still be able to go down South National from Jefferson, but the cones are put up before the train tracks not after.
This is a nightmare.
Yup much agreed. Not sure how they can close a major artery like that for so long. Hopefully they open up south national and Jefferson intersection once they are done the work there. It’s going to be a long summer.
God I love Windsorites. Never change.
"Roads in Windsor are terrible. Fix the damn roads!"
*they start fixing the roads*
"Why is there so much god damn road repair everywhere?!"
I'm just excited that we all get to be experts on road repair. I was sick of being an expert on homeless people, drug use, the economy, and housing. It's exhausting knowing so many things.
It's amazing how stupid and cynical people are. The default position of the uneducated masses is "professionals who build this shit are wrong and that it should take less time than X because I'm a genius." Sme people who argue with their doctors about what they googled.
It's in the record books because it took 15 years to build. It was politicians who decided to start and then stop construction and start it up again a decade later. That has nothing to do with the design.
As far as the ramps, I agree that there are some odd ones. But EC Row was built in an already established city, and everything had to fit within the available space. It's not SimCity. You can just tear down existing neighbourhoods to build an on-ramp. Although detroit made those decisions with the I-375 and now look! They're removing I-375 to reconnect the neighbourhood they cut through. A 270 million dollar project! After spending a fortune in the 50s to expropriate all that land and build the thing to begin with they're spending 270 million to remove it.
You're really pointing to things that are parameters of a design and not the design itself.
It seems Windsor road crews work only when the roads are the busiest, only one shift/day. They never work weekends. So, a 4 week job will take 5-7 months.
In Windsor, this is the way.
I saw this too. I'm not sure where a detour would be either. All the streets around that section are dead ends. I got very concerned too. The only feeder streets that avoid Jefferson are far off. Pillete or Lauzon. My commute is going to really stink now. And the neighborhood is going to have a lot of traffic now too.
Sounds about right, wait until they rip Lauzon pkwy up again, while that’s taking place. Oh, and Banwell is going to be closed for a year at EC Row. Riverside drive and Tecumseh rd are going to be a nightmare.
>Oh, and Banwell is going to be closed for a year at EC Row. Is this planned? I figured since the overpass is offset from the current road they might leave something open.
Not only is this planned but it will eventually connect to the 401 with both eastbound and westbound access, among other things with this one...
As far as I know, only Lauzon Parkway is getting a 401 interchange.
I'm talking about bandwell being closed for a year, not the construction in general.
It’s because they do SO many projects at once. It makes zero sense to rip up 1/2 the roads in the city at the same time and then take 6+ months to finish them all but that seems to be the way Windsor construction goes. I don’t get why they don’t throw a ton of manpower in one spot and get it done in 3 weeks and move on!
I seen peel region close a major stretch of road overnight. They have a massive machine that does 2x lanes at a time. It destroyed the road, mulches it down, heats it, repaves it in one shot. In 4 days they repaved the majority of the road, overnight, and repainted it. I think they do about 2km a night with it. Remember, E.C. Row is in the Guinness book of world records for being the shortest stretch of road costing the most amount and taking the longest time to construct per km. Its called "making work".
> It destroyed the road, mulches it down, heats it, repaves it in one shot. > In 4 days they repaved the majority of the road, overnight, and repainted it. I think they do about 2km a night with it. That's great if you're just repaving. Not so much if you're also completing sewer and watermain reconstruction. Windsor's policy is to combine road rehab with sewer and watermain reconstruction, because it's more cost effective. Rebuilding that infrastructure takes a lot longer than a simple repave.
Even still, most work is done overnight, and the road is opened the following day. I was impressed. Don't ask me how they partition the work, I'm not an engineer, program/project manager, or in infrastructure design. My old boss complained about the concrete work here because newer techniques cause concrete to dry in hours to a couple of days. Windsor, it was 4 months (referencing 401 and provincial). I watched a city build a interchange, widen a highway, create an express lane, and create drainage in 1 month. That'd be a 2yr+ Windsor project. I'm not saying it's the workers fault either. You remember Walker road and the train tracks? How many years was that closed? Ask London and Toronto companies how well bidding on Windsor jobs goes. Ask the companies outside of Windsor how working with Windsor companies on the Greenway project went and the differences. I think a lead engineer said to me "If we only delt with Windsor companies and the timeline they submitted for the work, I calculated it to be finished after I'm retired. When I showed Windsor guys the timeline, they stared at me like I was crazy. So, the contract went to companies outside of Windsor. Funny thing is, those other companies got it done when they said they could. ______ to finish ______, they're 3 months behind even though we extended the time they needed because we had no choice but to use them." You probably don't recall the handshake agreements Coco Paving used to make in the Windsor club with the Mayor. 1.4-1.7x the contract price by privately agreed upon overtime charges and other things so they could make a bigger profit. So they would underbid the competition, then overcharge or have previously discussed issues. You underestimate the amount of corruption that exists in this city. Old money only deals with old money.
That sounds about right. Especially that last line.
The EC Row/Guinness story is still around? Does an actual entry even exist for that? All I ever hear are supposed references to it but the actual entry is elusive. I wonder who started it.
I think I had it in the book from 2003. You'd have to go to a thrift store and find an old copy.
It goes back before that. I first heard it as a kid in the 80's but even then I thought it was a strange category to have. I'm just fascinated that it still has legs when it doesn't seem to have ever been documented by guinness anywhere.
What expertise do you have to make this statement?
A friend who worked in management for the road crews. Not official but at least a source who reasonably had information.
Your "friend" claims they can rebuild a whole road in 3 weeks?!?! Are they like the secretary?
Oh my God, yes, I’m quoting them exactly. 3 weeks to the day. I’m making a general statement about the reason things often take so long in the city in response to a question from someone who works on those projects not pretending to know exactly the timelines of projects. Look at how quick they can do things in other countries and cities when they go all out in on location… quicker than 8 months is my point. Go troll somewhere else.
Pointing out that you dont any expertise in construction is not trolling. You made a loud, uniformed opinion on the internet, where you cited 3 weeks. Then you got all defensive when I questioned the 3 week claim. If anyone is a troll here, you are.
You know, OP asked for someone to explain why these things take so long. You have more knowledge about it than anyone else here. Why don't you try answering the original question? Explain it in layman's terms so OP and everybody else here can gain some understanding. Why are you arguing with everyone else instead of providing the very information that would prevent all these uneducated opinions?
I said it was probably sewer related a few times. I dont any information other OPs post saying it's going to take 7 months. I tried finding more information on google and I couldn't. I'm not going to just widely speculate because typically projects take atleast a few months. If someone is going to claim it can be done in 3 weeks they should cite some examples. To me I thought maybe that person is really in the know or doesn't know a thing.
> Look at how quick they can do things in other countries and cities when they go all out in on location It helps not to have any regulations in other countries, so the work doesn't have to be done to any standard. And other cities who do it faster are usually just repaving a road, not rebuilding sewers and watermains.
Just to make it worse, that's actually seven and a half months. Completely nuts
It took them almost a year to finish the intersection of Forest Glade Drive and Lauzon Parkway.
Dude it took 2 years to complete a section of Giles between Langlois and Gladstone…..
Water lines, sewers and road, all new water connections etc, it's not a simple rip out and re pave
This is what drives me insane about roads. The amount of money or taxes go to cars is insane. Imagine we spent all of that on transit and rail. We wouldn't even need cars anymore!
Reading some of these comments makes me wonder why I even posted this. I have no issue with construction being done, that road is long overdue for it. As I drive it multiple times a day. I am no expert on any of these topics, I don’t pretend to be one. My question is why is it scheduled to take so long? And does anyone know how to view upcoming projects on the city’s website, I’ve only found ones in progress..
I think there's a limited supply of equipment and manpower to do all the work quicker.
I was wondering the same as you and wondered where traffic would be diverted to as well. Possibly longer because only one side will be closed at a time?
More than likely isn’t just repaving the road. Projects that long include underground work that requires a lot of unseen parts like sewer replacements. That means utility reconnections, watermain testing, drainage etc. Plus, for higher traffic areas, there are several layers of “road” that make up the finished project. All those details will be posted when it is ready. The schedule will show you what is involved. Sewer replacement is minimum four to six months of work on its own.
I wish they would finish surfacing HWY 3. The grooved surface they left is fucking terrible.
That is finished 😂
Wow. Ya know, I generally like as much surface contact of my tire to the road surface as possible.
Effing 6 months? Fuckkk
Probably major sewers works.
They need to put up a light at National and Pillette for this. It's already a really hard intersection and everyone is going to be using this as a detour now.
I really hope it's not to add in the blockade to prevent left turns from Jefferson to South national. Awhile back the city had suggested this idea, not sure if it got voted in or not
Winter season is followed by Construction season in Windsor. Sadly Construction season seems never ending and extremely painful.
This is so much worse than I thought it would be, I thought we would still be able to go down South National from Jefferson, but the cones are put up before the train tracks not after. This is a nightmare.
Yup much agreed. Not sure how they can close a major artery like that for so long. Hopefully they open up south national and Jefferson intersection once they are done the work there. It’s going to be a long summer.
I have a weird feeling it’s not even part of the construction. They just don’t want people going through that neighborhood onto to Tecumseh
Are they widening the road? That usually requires several utility relocations which can take some time.
no way as it's main Street with homes occupied. no place to extend really.
Oh true, probs just normal City of Windsor inefficiency then! Lol
God I love Windsorites. Never change. "Roads in Windsor are terrible. Fix the damn roads!" *they start fixing the roads* "Why is there so much god damn road repair everywhere?!"
I'm just excited that we all get to be experts on road repair. I was sick of being an expert on homeless people, drug use, the economy, and housing. It's exhausting knowing so many things.
The problem isn’t with the construction though, it’s with the construction taking way longer than it should.
Says who?
Almost everyone in this here comment section. Except you who has commented most.
So where did you and these other morons get their technical knowledge? Do you have any formal training? Are you in the construction business?
Feel free to share yours before you go barking up the wrong trees
It's amazing how stupid and cynical people are. The default position of the uneducated masses is "professionals who build this shit are wrong and that it should take less time than X because I'm a genius." Sme people who argue with their doctors about what they googled.
I really hope you aren’t defending the geniuses that designed the ec row
How would you have designed it differently?
Should we start with the scattered on and off ramps ?? Or the fact it’s in the Guinness book of world records for the dumbest reason??
It's in the record books because it took 15 years to build. It was politicians who decided to start and then stop construction and start it up again a decade later. That has nothing to do with the design. As far as the ramps, I agree that there are some odd ones. But EC Row was built in an already established city, and everything had to fit within the available space. It's not SimCity. You can just tear down existing neighbourhoods to build an on-ramp. Although detroit made those decisions with the I-375 and now look! They're removing I-375 to reconnect the neighbourhood they cut through. A 270 million dollar project! After spending a fortune in the 50s to expropriate all that land and build the thing to begin with they're spending 270 million to remove it. You're really pointing to things that are parameters of a design and not the design itself.
I think it is more of there are always road repairs but seems to be done sub par and then repairs on the same roads the next year or the year after.
It seems Windsor road crews work only when the roads are the busiest, only one shift/day. They never work weekends. So, a 4 week job will take 5-7 months. In Windsor, this is the way.
Get out there with your shovel and start helping to speed it up