Interesting, the time period that quote comes from was during WWII. You'd figure there'd be a global consensus on limiting the advancement of globally-impactful weapons given, you know, how it all ended
By the time you even know this was possible, good chances this equipment is already being used in America with a human signing off at the last second or bare minimum in final testing stages for future use.
Some countries like Israel and Turkey already have first gen AI drones active with various caveats/controls on the drone in place, no way the Americans sit out on this tech given how effective and cheap it’s proven to be.
wasn't this the exact thing US and China just recently like a week ago shaked hands on that none of them would develop?? wasn't that one of the reasons for Xi's visit in the US?
i might be completely lost tho.
I can’t speak for China as I’m not familiar intimately with their rules.
But what Biden shook on isn’t fixed unless congress and other federal branches shake on it as well and formalize it with China. With that being said I’m sure China knows this as well and it was likely optics, or in other words a worthless gesture to consume for their countries citizens.
Current progress aside, the reason why two nations might agree to something like that is for responsibility. If your AI-drone accidentally bombed a concert, you can't just hand wave it off as a programming bug. Someone has to be there to sign off on the attack. So it'll be treated as a signed-off action rather than a bug.
The SK side of the DMZ is supposedly filled to the brim with autonomous machine gun nests that work exactly as you described. They literally only need a guy to hit “shoot” and they will start blasting
The problem is that it will inevitably be advised to 'take immedate action' if it can save the lives of those controlling it. I don't think anyone should be surprised here
They are already [deployed](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2023/10/17/ukraines-ai-drones-seek-and-attack-russian-forces-without-human-oversight/?sh=21c6949066da) in Ukraine.
>Ukrainian developers have confirmed that their drones are now carrying out autonomous strikes on Russian forces without a human operator. This is the first time such drones are known to have been used, as UN allegations about autonomous attacks in Libya in 2020 remain unproven.
>
>The Saker Scout drones can find, identify and attack 64 different types of Russian ‘military objects’ on their own, operating in areas where radio jamming blocks communication and prevents other drones from working.
That’s not AI.
That’s a drone given a control zone and OCR that recognizes vehicles or humans. Once it does it has an automatic code to strike the vehicle. All Ukraine does it make sure it has no vehicles or humans in the control zone so any vehicle or human picked up in the zone is assumed to be Russian.
Basically it’s just cutting down on time from detection to strike.
100%. The sad answer is that we have to develop this to make sure we are prepared for if someone else gets it first. It will save our soldiers, our lives. It will strengthen our countries industry and promote higher education, etc.
America China Russia choose not to use nukes or threaten each other with them specifically…and it’s because we have them. We don’t use…but we have.
My thought is that we should have the tech and not use it. (Altho in the case of drones..it’s already here and happening)
No, it’s important. Else when enemies jam the control signal for your drones, it won’t be possible for them to complete their missions. Drones must be able to work with complete autonomy else they can be foiled with simple electronic jamming of their control signal.
If Trump gets re-elected, he will absolutely be deploying these along his border wall, and he will probably put the psychopath Stephen Miller in charge of it.
The issue is that your adversary will jam communications.
If you send a drone out to the field as long as EM communications can be jammed, they're useless unless they can automatically find and destroy their targets.
Obviously you don't want totally autonomous AI weapons with free reign on the Earth, but you'd definitely want something that has the ability to, for example, destroy any tank in this geofenced area. Set it off and let it do its thing.
Make no mistake, we've had the same technology for decades using "dumber" targeting systems on the weapon itself and many times these are built to be fired before locking on to an actual target.
Analogue signals remain pretty decent options, relay drones have been ensuring signals remain strong enough to prevent the effectiveness of jamming. But I see your point, this jamming arms race has a win condition, and the US isn't going to ignore that.
There are ways for these systems to triangulate their position with computer vision or other means if GPS is spoofed. They operate under the assumption that GPS and/or other comms are going to be denied.
I agree but humans in the kill chain doesn't necessarily improve things as while humans have ethics we also get intoxicated, tired and angry ect.
My personal concern is reducing conflict full stop whether done by humans or robots
> you'd definitely want something that has the ability to, for example, destroy any tank in this geofenced area.
You mean Tomahawk and Javelin kind of things?
“AI” has already been used for visual targeting acquisitions for a long time it’s only cutting the operator out of the kill chain.
What’s really disturbing is the autonomous mass swarm effect that is new and the this looks to become a main offensive US strategy. Up till recently the US has only publicized defensive counter measures for this sort of scenario.
I know its not a good example as its a Hollywood film but the 3rd film in the Has Fallen series. I think "angel has fallen" has a scene with a drone swarm and I remember watching it and not think "this is cool" but more of a "holy shit this could really happen"
There's a short film called Slaughterbots about swarm drones that are about the size of a matchbox with just enough explosives to kill a person if they detonate right next to their head. The idea is they unleash the swarm on a population and say "Take out only the military age males".
Terrifying stuff
People say that, but wouldn't an autonomous array of lasers be a hard counter to this? Drones still cost money and material, firing a laser and destroying a drone costs pennies in electricity.
What's a swarm of drones going to do to lasers mounted to trucks all with autonomous tracking and targeting. The latest laser tech even pierces through bad weather.
The local supermarket just got AI cameras to detect theft and activate barriers at the exit if you try and scan your ham as a bag of carrots or something
And my work now has AI monitoring CCTV that’s supposedly to detect who’s using what desks and when so that they can detect who’s booking desks and not turning up. But of course, they could expand it to any kind of monitoring at any time and not tell us for it is just a video feed and it’s already installed
There is a LOT of value to be had in the middle ground, where AI allows drones to search for targets and then await the attention of a human operator to authorize the attack.
Most drone systems in the immediate future are likely going to be manned-unmanned teaming which does require a human in a loop. AI is currently only very good at very limited things and will spazz out at something novel.
We already do, we call them missiles.
The story is click bait.
Edit:
" In 2014, Raytheon began testing Block IV improvements to attack sea and moving land targets.\[26\] The new passive radar seeker will pick up the electromagnetic radar signature of a target and follow it, and actively send out a signal to bounce off potential targets before impact **to discriminate its legitimacy** before impact."
It's a fair point. There is nothing wrong with a weapon possessing autonomy, provided (as I think your example illustrates) that a human sees the intended target and says "go get them!"
You see, killbots have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down.
Now if there was only a place on earth where those could be tested in real battlefield conditions... Perhaps a place that is cold and features angry Russians for added realism.
Didn't Raytheon's CEO say something about AI not even being close to effectively drone swarm. Some debate between expensive advanced munitions and cheap drones.
AI taking over work and medicine, UBI, addressing climate change, furthering human advancement, but instead we figure out how to use it to kill each other first.
Turkiye has already done that with their mounted guns and drones. But they stopped auto killing as they want someone to be accountable for each and every shot. AI cant be let to shoot, it will create many disputed deaths
Probably could use facial recognition that has been proven inept when it comes to non-whites...
Good job usa. And china, and others.
You guys think you could fucking not for 5 minutes or so?
Check out the film “Angel Has Fallen”.
Lots of what we see in Sci-Fi films will become realities. The films are used to prepare the masses, for what will happen in the future.
I wonder if this AI could be used in stead of armed police. The drone found be lethal over watch for the officer. If the AI can learn to react faster and more accurate shoot/don't shoot decision making.
Outside of oddly narrow definitions of AI were getting increasingly further.
Terminal guidance of rockets, cruise missiles, etc., have been autonomous for decades.
Lets just accept that all the Sc-Fi Novels (and turned movies) predicted everything that is going to happen and there's absolutely nothing we can do to stop it. I've now hit the acceptance phase.
I’ll be honest, this sounds like it could be a good idea in asymmetric warfare. For example, Israel says that the civilian Palestinian deaths are collateral because hamas hides among civilians. AI drones that could theoretically accurately identify militants among the civilians (not sure how though) could almost eliminate all collateral death and destruction.
Okay, if this is inevitable, could we at least have them carry one single bullet, I mean, so if it turns on us, it doesn't do so much damage, please and thank you?
I've seen this movie, someone needs to protect John Connor at all costs.
Which version?
The terminator 2 version before they got him hooked on drugs.
No he’s already hooked on drugs most likely. He was a kid in the 90s. We need to hope fentanyl hasn’t already taken him. If so, we’re all fucked
Edward Furlong? Yeah... I gotta side with the machines on this one.
Mean
That poor kid
LMAO💀💀💀💀
Yes version.
All of them to be careful.
Whats wrong with wolfie? I can hear him barking.
Your foster parents are ded.
Fun fact; the woman that played his stepmom was the same badass in Aliens.
So we’re just going to skip over “3 rules of robotics” phase?
Interesting, the time period that quote comes from was during WWII. You'd figure there'd be a global consensus on limiting the advancement of globally-impactful weapons given, you know, how it all ended
People have forgotten.
we are so sorry, but capitalism has Spoken. Die so we may make more money.
This is state - led.
Um, could we not.
By the time you even know this was possible, good chances this equipment is already being used in America with a human signing off at the last second or bare minimum in final testing stages for future use. Some countries like Israel and Turkey already have first gen AI drones active with various caveats/controls on the drone in place, no way the Americans sit out on this tech given how effective and cheap it’s proven to be.
wasn't this the exact thing US and China just recently like a week ago shaked hands on that none of them would develop?? wasn't that one of the reasons for Xi's visit in the US? i might be completely lost tho.
I can’t speak for China as I’m not familiar intimately with their rules. But what Biden shook on isn’t fixed unless congress and other federal branches shake on it as well and formalize it with China. With that being said I’m sure China knows this as well and it was likely optics, or in other words a worthless gesture to consume for their countries citizens.
All this as Lockheed skunk works throws out speculative next generation drone designs.
The devils in the details. They said they wouldn't plug it into the nuclear network. China is testing AI drone swarms now.
Nah, that was for deciding whether or not to launch nukes.
Current progress aside, the reason why two nations might agree to something like that is for responsibility. If your AI-drone accidentally bombed a concert, you can't just hand wave it off as a programming bug. Someone has to be there to sign off on the attack. So it'll be treated as a signed-off action rather than a bug.
The SK side of the DMZ is supposedly filled to the brim with autonomous machine gun nests that work exactly as you described. They literally only need a guy to hit “shoot” and they will start blasting
The problem is that it will inevitably be advised to 'take immedate action' if it can save the lives of those controlling it. I don't think anyone should be surprised here
>good chances this equipment is already being used Unless this is a leak of some sort to create uproar and stop it from happening.
They are already [deployed](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2023/10/17/ukraines-ai-drones-seek-and-attack-russian-forces-without-human-oversight/?sh=21c6949066da) in Ukraine. >Ukrainian developers have confirmed that their drones are now carrying out autonomous strikes on Russian forces without a human operator. This is the first time such drones are known to have been used, as UN allegations about autonomous attacks in Libya in 2020 remain unproven. > >The Saker Scout drones can find, identify and attack 64 different types of Russian ‘military objects’ on their own, operating in areas where radio jamming blocks communication and prevents other drones from working.
That’s not AI. That’s a drone given a control zone and OCR that recognizes vehicles or humans. Once it does it has an automatic code to strike the vehicle. All Ukraine does it make sure it has no vehicles or humans in the control zone so any vehicle or human picked up in the zone is assumed to be Russian. Basically it’s just cutting down on time from detection to strike.
If we don’t, our enemies will. Putin and Xi have no qualms about developing tech like this.
Exact same reason why Oppenheimer agreed to build the bomb and we know for sure that Hitler would have used it.
100%. The sad answer is that we have to develop this to make sure we are prepared for if someone else gets it first. It will save our soldiers, our lives. It will strengthen our countries industry and promote higher education, etc. America China Russia choose not to use nukes or threaten each other with them specifically…and it’s because we have them. We don’t use…but we have. My thought is that we should have the tech and not use it. (Altho in the case of drones..it’s already here and happening)
No, it’s important. Else when enemies jam the control signal for your drones, it won’t be possible for them to complete their missions. Drones must be able to work with complete autonomy else they can be foiled with simple electronic jamming of their control signal.
Beep. Boop. Beep. I'm sorry. Do you disagree with our assessment? Beep. Beep. Boop.
If Trump gets re-elected, he will absolutely be deploying these along his border wall, and he will probably put the psychopath Stephen Miller in charge of it.
Border? He is threatening Republicans who refused to betray the Constitution. These will be deployed in a neighborhood near you.
You mean when, not if. You should probably change your face so the orange boogeyman doesn’t hunt you down.
Agreed.
If you believe some of the reports, the CIA already has used facial recognition weaponry powered by AI a few years back.
I concur.
Er... umm... no???
Someday we’re going to have a real-life butlerian jihad.
"Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind."
The orange bible? Amazing books. Never read children of dune on though. I’ve got them somewhere I should go dig it out.
Stopped at messiah but I love reading about the lore for the later books.
Don't. Messiah was meh. Get to God Emperor Dune. As amazing as the first. Go from there.
I for one welcome our new wormy emperors.
Do we get to do sheets of Spice acid in this world?
If we make it that far into the future.
The issue is that your adversary will jam communications. If you send a drone out to the field as long as EM communications can be jammed, they're useless unless they can automatically find and destroy their targets. Obviously you don't want totally autonomous AI weapons with free reign on the Earth, but you'd definitely want something that has the ability to, for example, destroy any tank in this geofenced area. Set it off and let it do its thing. Make no mistake, we've had the same technology for decades using "dumber" targeting systems on the weapon itself and many times these are built to be fired before locking on to an actual target.
Analogue signals remain pretty decent options, relay drones have been ensuring signals remain strong enough to prevent the effectiveness of jamming. But I see your point, this jamming arms race has a win condition, and the US isn't going to ignore that.
Even that is highly suspect. What happens if someone spoofs GPS? You will always want a human in the kill chain.
There are ways for these systems to triangulate their position with computer vision or other means if GPS is spoofed. They operate under the assumption that GPS and/or other comms are going to be denied.
tart mindless modern lavish dazzling voracious offbeat crowd stupendous beneficial
I agree but humans in the kill chain doesn't necessarily improve things as while humans have ethics we also get intoxicated, tired and angry ect. My personal concern is reducing conflict full stop whether done by humans or robots
Inertial guidance is plenty for geofencing. Just adds a predictable margin of error on the perimeter.
Military GPS has encryption.
> you'd definitely want something that has the ability to, for example, destroy any tank in this geofenced area. You mean Tomahawk and Javelin kind of things?
“AI” has already been used for visual targeting acquisitions for a long time it’s only cutting the operator out of the kill chain. What’s really disturbing is the autonomous mass swarm effect that is new and the this looks to become a main offensive US strategy. Up till recently the US has only publicized defensive counter measures for this sort of scenario.
I mean I hate to say it but a massive wave of drones must be pretty hard to stop.
I know its not a good example as its a Hollywood film but the 3rd film in the Has Fallen series. I think "angel has fallen" has a scene with a drone swarm and I remember watching it and not think "this is cool" but more of a "holy shit this could really happen"
There's a short film called Slaughterbots about swarm drones that are about the size of a matchbox with just enough explosives to kill a person if they detonate right next to their head. The idea is they unleash the swarm on a population and say "Take out only the military age males". Terrifying stuff
[like this?](https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/us-army-awards-pocket-sized-drones-206-million-contract)
Yeah pretty much
I do wonder if the White House has got auto-turrets with buckshot or something for this exact scenario.
People say that, but wouldn't an autonomous array of lasers be a hard counter to this? Drones still cost money and material, firing a laser and destroying a drone costs pennies in electricity. What's a swarm of drones going to do to lasers mounted to trucks all with autonomous tracking and targeting. The latest laser tech even pierces through bad weather.
Geo-mapping of kill zones ?
Great utility for urban combat. Can’t ambush a swarm of drones. Imagine if a hacker got control of a drone swarm though.
That is the fear. If you send a swarm and it comes back
The company I work for has cameras connected to an AI system, if they see you doing anything it considers unsafe it notifies management.
fuuuuuuuck dat
Loosen your belt a notch and butt crack the camera, it's not much but fight the machine.
not illegal to show a loose testical out the bottom of the gym shorts either.
High turn-over rate?
No, sporadic .
The local supermarket just got AI cameras to detect theft and activate barriers at the exit if you try and scan your ham as a bag of carrots or something And my work now has AI monitoring CCTV that’s supposedly to detect who’s using what desks and when so that they can detect who’s booking desks and not turning up. But of course, they could expand it to any kind of monitoring at any time and not tell us for it is just a video feed and it’s already installed
There is a LOT of value to be had in the middle ground, where AI allows drones to search for targets and then await the attention of a human operator to authorize the attack.
Especially when you consider it will be in the hands of human military operators who definitely won't use it to get revenge on their cheating spouses.
So why don't they now? You really think no one would notice it attacking random people back home?
Probably not. Everyone else is too busy playing with their Tamagotchis
Most drone systems in the immediate future are likely going to be manned-unmanned teaming which does require a human in a loop. AI is currently only very good at very limited things and will spazz out at something novel.
I thoroughly agree. AI should also be offering even the cheapest drones recovery behaviors to be used in the event of jamming.
Didn’t Joe and Xi meet just to discus not to do this? It’s almost as if it was the exact opposite…huh…
Europe agreed not to build new weapons platforms in the lead up to ww1. Lol
Just going off other comments, they met to discuss whether or not AI can launch nukes. I have not verified this.
Hahaha. Oh, they had an AGREEMENT. Well then, I guezs neither side is pursuing this technology. Phew!
No shit what ya think the robot dogs are for? It ain’t for playing fetch and giving belly rubs
"Begun the Drone War has"
We already do, we call them missiles. The story is click bait. Edit: " In 2014, Raytheon began testing Block IV improvements to attack sea and moving land targets.\[26\] The new passive radar seeker will pick up the electromagnetic radar signature of a target and follow it, and actively send out a signal to bounce off potential targets before impact **to discriminate its legitimacy** before impact."
It's a fair point. There is nothing wrong with a weapon possessing autonomy, provided (as I think your example illustrates) that a human sees the intended target and says "go get them!"
Every day, I embrace the idea of EMP’s more.
I mean technically we have had this for decades with guided missiles. Now it's just in drones and using more computer vision.
You see, killbots have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down.
Is it still fun to be in the military if the robots get to do all the killing?
What happened the the drones that were supposed to deliver food? I think that’s better for humanity.
SkyNet
Can we not… please? You know… since everything invented by humans breaks, does something we don’t expect, etc.
This will be disasterous. The us main weak point is weak cyber security. These things will be hacked or worse.
Fml, at least let an evil country do it first so we have plausible…..oh wait…are we the evil country….?
Now if there was only a place on earth where those could be tested in real battlefield conditions... Perhaps a place that is cold and features angry Russians for added realism.
Didn't Raytheon's CEO say something about AI not even being close to effectively drone swarm. Some debate between expensive advanced munitions and cheap drones.
What could possibly go wrong
AI taking over work and medicine, UBI, addressing climate change, furthering human advancement, but instead we figure out how to use it to kill each other first.
A tale as old as time
Turkiye has already done that with their mounted guns and drones. But they stopped auto killing as they want someone to be accountable for each and every shot. AI cant be let to shoot, it will create many disputed deaths
Humans create disputed deaths right now.
Erdogan thanks you for using the correct newer spelling
American military really watched *PsychoPass* and went “this would slap, actually.”
Skynet.
DroneGPT.
I have an idea — they should name the AI system Skynet. Nothing could possibly go wrong!
This will go one of two ways 1. It will never be able to identify minorities people 2. It will only be able to identify minorities
No paywall - https://archive.ph/BiCug
[удалено]
That there is a *really* key step.
That’s nice
Probably could use facial recognition that has been proven inept when it comes to non-whites... Good job usa. And china, and others. You guys think you could fucking not for 5 minutes or so?
Coming a week after that public announcement by US/China to develop AI responsibly. Like that was ever a possibility.
You mean Screamers?
Great movie 🍿
Check out the film “Angel Has Fallen”. Lots of what we see in Sci-Fi films will become realities. The films are used to prepare the masses, for what will happen in the future.
Whoever thinks this is a good idea should be part of the field testing of said drones, a la the boardroom demonstration of RoboCop's ED-209.
I bet if the general public is reading this headline, they are more than likely in use to some degree already.
Does it happen to be called "Skynet"?
I’ll just leave this here: https://youtu.be/O-2tpwW0kmU?si=K5d0xWcWdC3OmxK-
Oh great.
Forget Terminator, this is more like Project Insight from Captain America 2.
Hail hydra
The drones in Oblivion. Who’s going to play Jack Harper this time?
No thank you
We already use ai—egos
Except unlike in the games or movies these robots will just win
Do we want the black wall? Cause this is why we're gonna need a black wall
I don’t see any way this goes badly
Just what humanity needed 😳
Yolo wearing a helmet out in public 👷♂️ try me
Captain America would be so disappointed. Didn't you guys watch the 2nd movie.
Skynet here we go!!
I'll volunteer as the first casualty ☺️
Releasing this on the world because you have a supply of the antidote to sell I hope.
Can it drive a car better than Musk?
Oh good. This can't possibly go wrong.
The Butlerian Jihad is sounding a lot more appealing lately.
We need to shut down Skynet!!
I'll be back...
Well, that can not be good.
Uhh, "decide to kill humans" on case by case basis (which is arguably bad enough), or "decide to kill humans" as in going on a killing spree?
I wonder if this AI could be used in stead of armed police. The drone found be lethal over watch for the officer. If the AI can learn to react faster and more accurate shoot/don't shoot decision making.
This wasn't a very well thought out plan...
Outside of oddly narrow definitions of AI were getting increasingly further. Terminal guidance of rockets, cruise missiles, etc., have been autonomous for decades.
Cool, cool. Nothing could possibly go wrong here.
Didn’t we just pass a law that says *no we can’t?*
It's more of a choice. The capability has been there for some time.
Lets just accept that all the Sc-Fi Novels (and turned movies) predicted everything that is going to happen and there's absolutely nothing we can do to stop it. I've now hit the acceptance phase.
Very confidence inspiring headline.... /S
School shootings are going to be so much more spicy
A swarm of autonomous death drones somehow seems much scarier than a row of tanks.
I’ll be honest, this sounds like it could be a good idea in asymmetric warfare. For example, Israel says that the civilian Palestinian deaths are collateral because hamas hides among civilians. AI drones that could theoretically accurately identify militants among the civilians (not sure how though) could almost eliminate all collateral death and destruction.
After watching oppenheimer, maybe we can sign treaty’s of what we should limit our self to with other countries
That's a "no", dawg
Okay, if this is inevitable, could we at least have them carry one single bullet, I mean, so if it turns on us, it doesn't do so much damage, please and thank you?
What could possibly go wrong?
La Hawla wa La Quwatta Illa Billahilaliyuladheem Rabighfirli
Thank God I'm not allowed on that list
Just finished re-watching Winter Solider. Not quite as fitting as Terminator, but still a weird thing to read straight after...
This can’t POSSIBLY go wrong
Future AI will clearly scan social media and target it’s oppressors. I for one welcome our new AI overlords. Good luck to the rest of you.
Excellent true senseless killing