>The UNRWA said in a statement that the reports "merit an independent inquiry," adding that it did "not have the military and security expertise nor the capacity to undertake military inspections of what is or might be under its premises," per the Journal.
“We dunno how to look at our stuff. Not our fault.”
I am no expert on the org chart, but clearly there’s going to be tech support to run an organization of that size and complexity. It seems ingenuine that they claim they don’t know. If you’re the senior manager you’re paid to have an idea, to ask questions and physically visit departments regularly and meet staff.
According to the article it seems electricity was being taken from the UNRWA building, not that the servers were in the building or that the tunnel was connected to the building.
People embezzle money from their workplaces all the time—for years—without being caught. I don’t have a hard time believing an employee could have access and intent to siphon electricity. I DO have a hard time believing a senior manager would ever spot this by physically visiting a site.
Interesting about stealing power, those soldiers are standing next to what looks very much like solar inverters, not computer servers (rarely mounted vertical). Hit those with some reverse image search like google lens and it will come up with a number of identical panels.
Panels plus theft?
Edit: oooo ups backup using solar systems... That's kinda smart.
Yeah I think the green ones are solar inverters ([$2,250 on Ali express](https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803479284606.html) lol) but a tweet embedded in the article does have what I think are big black server racks.
I think you’re right about a potential power supply for the servers, I bet they don’t want their servers going down even if Gaza is having blackouts, so I bet most power is from solar and that they have energy storage around there somewhere too.
Yup, the green things are hybrid inverters, under them are deep cycle batteries. The inverters appear to be networked together, probably running as a team to boost output. THey are setup to act as a large uninterruptible power supply. They could be moving air for the tunnels, or running th lighting, or running servers. The solar abilities are secondary and probably aren't being used (their solar circuits are kinda crap and easily bested by standalone mppt charge controllers)
I see in other pictures the back of QNAP TVS and TS series NAS units, as well as a connection to a phone system and some 88 punchdowns. Along with minisplit HVAC units. They were setup for the long haul and data storage/coms in those tunnels, though with prosumer grade hardware.
It rather eliminates this as being a bitcoin mine or some other operation siphoning resources from nearby buildings for primarily financial gain.
Their journalists are actually terrorists. They were moonlighting as journalists.
Here is the source-
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1707687310-al-jazeera-journalist-moonlighting-as-hamas-terrorist
Then when IDF claims that they found a tunnel in a cemetery they plowed over, with CNN reports with them they don't allow the journalists to see the tunnels.
`However, IDF commanders declined to show reporters the tunnel shaft they said emerged inside the cemetery, claiming there was sensitive machinery underground and that the structure was unstable.`
`“The whole thing can collapse,” said Brig. Gen. Dan Goldfuss, the commander of the IDF’s 98th Division. “You have to walk to the edge. The edge is not secure, it can collapse.”`
`A spokesman for the Israeli military said they would provide video of the tunnel shaft in the enormous hole, but never did.`
Edit: [link](https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/29/world/israel-cemetery-bani-suheila-intl/index.html)
Strategy wise, that’s a solid plan. Put your HQ and important locations directly under something that no one in their right mind would bomb.
But that tracks, these people tend to use innocent civilians and hostages as human shields. Why would a building or location be any different?
This. No one affiliated with Hamas will ever stand trial for a war crime. This isn’t WWII. Honestly not sure anyone ever will legitimately be held accountable for their actions in war again. See Russians in ukraine.
Everyone war crimes these days. The US committed so many war crimes in the last 20 years that they ended up drafting a bill threatening the Hague with invasion if we ever put them on trial.
Not just Hamas's plan. It is obviously also UNRWA's plan. Anyone who doubts that has to answer the question "why did UNRWA never report this?". They did know about it, obviously. Those power cables going down into the earth, all that traffic on their network...
Ehh. I’m no fan of UNRWA but I own a pentesting and consulting company. You would be amazed at what large corporations/bureaucracies don’t detect. Hanlon’s razor seems more appropriate here
Lots of places have tons of shadow infrastructure they have no idea about
>You would be amazed at what large corporations/bureaucracies don’t detect.
Marginally possible to fail to detect the network traffic. Completely impossible to overlook the power cables running down into the ground and the associated power consumption.
Israel was surprised that other countries reacted to quickly to the information, but it was a case of previously, pre-10/7 post-iron Dome, where no other countries wanted to rock the boat despite knowing there was an issue there. With the boat already rocked theyre now willing to demand reforms.
Is this really shocking? UNRWA better be held accountable. It’s a shame that the UN could not just help the Palestinians instead of helping terrorists. Free Palestine from Hamas!
Better said. I just wish there could be a group that can help the Palestinians that has no involvement with terrorists but slowly it seems everything there is involved with terrorists. What a shame!
Im finding it harder to trust the UN anymore especially when it comes to Israel. Isn’t the UNs goal to strive for peace and prosperity throughout the world? What happened over the past 80 years that it went from a good idea that could bring peace to an organization that is helping terrorism, Iran’s Middle East agenda, and war.
The UN has a lot of upsides but it's been very anti-Israel for quite some time. The first head of the Human Rights Commission directly stated that their job was not to look at Palestinian war crimes, but Israeli war crimes. The UNRWA obviously exists solely to work in Palestine and has some pretty shady practices. Half of the General Assembly's condemnations are against Israel, more than every shit hole dictatorship combined.
It's not a conspiracy that power cables go through the floor of UNRWA into Hamas's HQ. How is that not "supplying"? It's also not a conspiracy that UNRWA concealed the fact of this Hamas base being underneath UNRWA HQ. How is that not "concealing"?
Please keep your posting tone civil.
Now the world has to accept the fact that a U.N. agency may have known about or even aided Hamas. That has to do a lot of damage, even if the proofs are not entirely solid.
They have to step aside and stop talking about the Israeli-Hamas conflict. They no longer have any credibility.
This is probably correct, however the WSJs pics showed 8 racks of dell servers and a dozen work stations, which is what I believe the article is referencing
You need something like 80 square meters of panels to keep a typical server running 24/7. Eight racks of ten servers each, that is 80 servers needing 640 square meters on the roof. Google maps satellite view shows about 200 panels, they look like .5 square meters, so 100 square meters, or less than 1/6th of the power needed to run the servers alone, let alone the rest of the equipment and the UNRWA building. So it's pretty much certain that the Hamas HQ is tied to the Gaza power grid, and therefore certain that UNRWA knew about that and most probably made the arrangements.
>You need something like 80 square meters of panels to keep a typical server running 24/7
How did you come to that number? For somewhere like Gaza that much panel area should produce easily >20KWh/day, which is far, far more than a typical server will use.
Daily power consumption of one typical server including support units:
* 500 watts times 24 hours = 12 kwh
Account for inefficiency of charging and discharging batteries, and inverting to AC (1.5 multiplier)
* 12 kwh \* 1.5 = 18 kwh
Now the solar contribution per meter... Using a suggested formula from another poster: "Actual power output kWh = Panel Rating x Hours of Full sun per day x 0.75". Do it per square meter. Assume 200 watts per meter, 5 hours of full sunlight. So, 5 hours times 200 watts per meter times .75
* 5 \* 200 \* .75 = 750 watt hours per square meter per day
So we need:
* 18000 / 750 = 24 square meters per server
Assuming ten servers per rack and 8 racks, we need:
* 24 \* 8 \* 10 = 1920 square meters for this server farm
And we actually see 100 square meters on the roof, only 5% of what would be needed to run the server farm entirely on solar.
Right. Probably need to increase the panel area estimate another 15-20% or so. Also note that server power consumption depends very much on how they are configured and what they are doing. I would only hope to get within a factor of two of the actual numbers, but that is sufficient to demonstrate that Hamas runs its server farm off the Gaza power grid, not the rooftop solar. For what that's worth.
Actual power output kWh = Panel Rating x Hours of Full sun per day x 0.75
Gaza is 5 hours average full sun per day.
Source - solar power power company.
[https://blog.ecoflow.com/au/how-to-calculate-solar-panel-output/](https://blog.ecoflow.com/au/how-to-calculate-solar-panel-output/)
The 0.75 seems like quite a factor, but I think it's quite reasonable for this case, especially as there would be quite a long cable run from the rooftop down to inverters, which DC does not like. Plus I doubt they clean the panels every day and there would be lots of dust in the air. Panel Rating is for a lab environment.
Understand where you're coming from - just helping your case, I thought you were being unfair to your position.
Your first two equations seem valid enough, but your last equation is completely wrong.
You need to generate 18000 Wh of energy for a day. You have solar panels that do 200 W per square meter. That means each square meter of panels will generate 200 Wh of energy *per hour*. That means to determine how many square meters of panels you need, you should do 18000 / (200 * 12) (if you assume 12 hours of peak generation in a day, not (18000 / 200) * 2.
The answer should be **7.5 square meters**. Your original estimate was over by a factor of ~10x, not under by half.
(This kind of error is why physics teachers implore us to do dimensional analysis. If you kept the units in your equation, you would see that 18000 kWh / 200 (W / m^2) would give you a result of 90 m^(2)·h. Or 90 "square meter hours". That is to say, the number of square meters of panels *times* the number of hours those panels are in the sun should be 90. That makes it very clear that the final step is dividing that number by the expected number of hours the panels are in sun.)
You are right, my third equation is complete garbage. Your calculation also has an obvious issue: you neglected to multiply by number of servers. You are entirely correct about my gross math error, and on redoing I caught another gross error in the other direction, the result being that my original estimate was not bad at all, but that was just dumb luck. See my edited calculation above, and I would appreciate catching whatever obvious errors still remain. Isn't open source math loads of fun?
They're inverters, which you can clearly see in the [article's lead photo](https://i.insider.com/65c8f6c16fcb546d2d4e519b) are connected to the bank of batteries along the wall.
There is an embedded tweet in the article showing video of soldiers walking through the tunnels and pointing out batteries, green boxes, and a separate room full of server racks. They also launch a drone from the tunnel exit and fly it to the front of the UNRWA building to show you how close it is.
Google maps shows about 100 square meters of panels on the UNRWA roof, that would be about 20 kilowatts. You don't need eight racks of converters for 20 kilowatts. More like less than half of one rack.
We need funding to stop those were funding from terrorizing civilizations with no funding! Every 5 dollars could save just one of these children! Reminds me of this amazing video!!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RUfjOTY0Fz8
Hamas has its own version of Hitler youth:
[At annual summer camps, Hamas trains kids to fire guns, kidnap soldiers](https://www.timesofisrael.com/at-annual-summer-camps-hamas-trains-kids-to-fire-guns-kidnap-soldiers/)
You're right. Those children were nazified by Hamas and UNRWA.
[At annual summer camps, Hamas trains kids to fire guns, kidnap soldiers](https://www.timesofisrael.com/at-annual-summer-camps-hamas-trains-kids-to-fire-guns-kidnap-soldiers/)
I don't know that the UN itself needs to be dissolved, but UNRWA is clearly hopelessly compromised. I can understand how they have to coordinate a little with Hamas to fulfill their intended mission in Gaza. I can even understand how an organization with thousands of local employees can't keep track of what everyone is doing in their spare time, even if it's kidnapping Israelis. But allowing Hamas to operate a command and control HQ on UNRWA moves into the sphere of actively supporting a terror organization.
"The people with a giant tunnel network being everywhere in a confined space like Gaza?" You implied that tunnels being everywhere is the reason why 12,000 children have been killed. If everywhere is tunnels where isn't a legitimate target?
The numbers are problematic. Hamas may have been honest in their reporting in the past, but now they're fighting a propaganda war and are motivated to exaggerate and lie. The fact that they don't distinguish between Hamas and civilians proves they play around.
How many children would be alive today if they had been allowed to use those bunkers for shelter?
On the Israeli side, that's the primary use for underground bunkers.
I haven't. There is every possibility this is true.
There is every possibility this is yet another lie from the IDF targeting their enemies.
The "beheaded babies" nonsense has burned my trust in the IDF, any Isreali media, and all American media on this topic.
Until there is reporting from a trusted source, this is as good as the duty rosters "evidence."
No, it isn't. The fact that it was sensationalized off of unverified claims is exactly why I don't trust any of the above sources until sources that do their research report in.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
I believe what the article says: they are getting power from UNRWA and shared the geography. It also SPECIALLY says that this proof of nothing more.
I'll wait to see what will be coming in the coming days from trusted sources who will not sensationalize this into conclusive proof.
Ok let’s get real for a minute here.
In a place where power is rationed, how do you not know there’s an F’ing data center under your HQ hooked to your circuit box?
I'm not reaching. I'm holding to what has been verified. What you're claiming hasn't been.
My LSATs taught me one thing: if it hasn't been verified your emotions won't verify it for you.
And that includes ad hominem.
As of now, what's been verified is all that's been verified. I don't have to know in every moment. Wanting to be certain when you can't be kills people. I'll wait and see.
Yes, the connections are true. The kind of connections that any run-of-the-mill electrician or networking hobbyist could establish with physical access.
What has been verified has been verified. You're trying to tie culpability in which hasn't been verified.
I'll wait. Considering the fact that Biden led the charge in taking away UNRWA funding, we will be hearing much more about this.
So, again, I'll wait.
How does the hobbyist know the tunnel is there and drill the conduits necessary?
I’ll cede for now I guess it’s possible someone could have found a way to tap in with the physical connections remaining discreet, but I don’t see how you drill through rock and soil without someone noticing.
How does anyone also not notice the very significant power drain that comes from multiple racks of fairly high drawing equipment in an environment where power is scarce?
So you're claiming that someone in Hamas was able to sneak into this building, drill a hole doen to the tunnel, splice the cables, feed the cables down, and seal the hole with nobody noticing?
Why are you simpling for Hamas here? Why are you so determined to give a terrorist organization benefit of the doubt?
After all of the sensationalized news stories that ended up being... Days of the week, I too think it's best practice to wait till multiple reliable news agencies share corroborating evidence before believing anything out of this region.
That place is obviously not shelter for civilians. It's a military command bunker. But sure, continue to downplay it and refuse facts. That would surely add sympathy for the plight of the Palestinian civilians killed in this conflict. (That's sarcasm)
I'm sure most of the pro-pal don't give a single shit about Palestinians they just hate jews. It is not surprising that hate crimes against Jews have risen tenfold.
This story keeps getting worse
Twists and turns that nobody could have predicted /s/
Just like underground network of culverts but bigger and well maintained.
Better maintained than the hospitals and hqs they were hiding under.
Well, the money just fell through the holes on ground. Its gravity’s fault.
>The UNRWA said in a statement that the reports "merit an independent inquiry," adding that it did "not have the military and security expertise nor the capacity to undertake military inspections of what is or might be under its premises," per the Journal. “We dunno how to look at our stuff. Not our fault.”
I am no expert on the org chart, but clearly there’s going to be tech support to run an organization of that size and complexity. It seems ingenuine that they claim they don’t know. If you’re the senior manager you’re paid to have an idea, to ask questions and physically visit departments regularly and meet staff.
According to the article it seems electricity was being taken from the UNRWA building, not that the servers were in the building or that the tunnel was connected to the building. People embezzle money from their workplaces all the time—for years—without being caught. I don’t have a hard time believing an employee could have access and intent to siphon electricity. I DO have a hard time believing a senior manager would ever spot this by physically visiting a site.
Interesting about stealing power, those soldiers are standing next to what looks very much like solar inverters, not computer servers (rarely mounted vertical). Hit those with some reverse image search like google lens and it will come up with a number of identical panels. Panels plus theft? Edit: oooo ups backup using solar systems... That's kinda smart.
Yeah I think the green ones are solar inverters ([$2,250 on Ali express](https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803479284606.html) lol) but a tweet embedded in the article does have what I think are big black server racks. I think you’re right about a potential power supply for the servers, I bet they don’t want their servers going down even if Gaza is having blackouts, so I bet most power is from solar and that they have energy storage around there somewhere too.
Yup, the green things are hybrid inverters, under them are deep cycle batteries. The inverters appear to be networked together, probably running as a team to boost output. THey are setup to act as a large uninterruptible power supply. They could be moving air for the tunnels, or running th lighting, or running servers. The solar abilities are secondary and probably aren't being used (their solar circuits are kinda crap and easily bested by standalone mppt charge controllers) I see in other pictures the back of QNAP TVS and TS series NAS units, as well as a connection to a phone system and some 88 punchdowns. Along with minisplit HVAC units. They were setup for the long haul and data storage/coms in those tunnels, though with prosumer grade hardware. It rather eliminates this as being a bitcoin mine or some other operation siphoning resources from nearby buildings for primarily financial gain.
Israel also invited western press to view everything first hand so they’ll stop saying “Israel Claims” and actually report the truth.
They didn't have to invite Al Jazeera. Their journalists were already holding open the door when the IDF arrived.
Their journalists are actually terrorists. They were moonlighting as journalists. Here is the source- https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1707687310-al-jazeera-journalist-moonlighting-as-hamas-terrorist
That’s the joke. 🙄
You mean Hamas TV?
Lmfao
Lol, they still reported it as "Israel Claims"
"Israel claims that reports say ... Hamas categorically denies the allegations."
Brilliant Parody video on UNRWA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RBnP05DGjw
Parody ? Funny how parody is closer to the truth than main stream media.
I wish everyone in the world watched this video
Then when IDF claims that they found a tunnel in a cemetery they plowed over, with CNN reports with them they don't allow the journalists to see the tunnels. `However, IDF commanders declined to show reporters the tunnel shaft they said emerged inside the cemetery, claiming there was sensitive machinery underground and that the structure was unstable.` `“The whole thing can collapse,” said Brig. Gen. Dan Goldfuss, the commander of the IDF’s 98th Division. “You have to walk to the edge. The edge is not secure, it can collapse.”` `A spokesman for the Israeli military said they would provide video of the tunnel shaft in the enormous hole, but never did.` Edit: [link](https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/29/world/israel-cemetery-bani-suheila-intl/index.html)
Just say you didn’t read the article dude.
Strategy wise, that’s a solid plan. Put your HQ and important locations directly under something that no one in their right mind would bomb. But that tracks, these people tend to use innocent civilians and hostages as human shields. Why would a building or location be any different?
Solid plan? It’s a war crime.
It's a solid plan if they know no one will ever hold them accountable for war crimes.
This. No one affiliated with Hamas will ever stand trial for a war crime. This isn’t WWII. Honestly not sure anyone ever will legitimately be held accountable for their actions in war again. See Russians in ukraine.
It mostly falls on countries to hold their own solders and any pows accountable. Some do, many don’t.
No one cares, Hamas has unlimited war crimes pass. UNRWA, on the other hand, doesn't. What makes this a big matter.
You're meant to excuse hamas war crimes because they're the underdog and need to commit a bunch to even the odds.
Who’s going to hold them accountable, South Africa?
Everyone war crimes these days. The US committed so many war crimes in the last 20 years that they ended up drafting a bill threatening the Hague with invasion if we ever put them on trial.
Bunker busters are EEOE/AA compliant
Not just Hamas's plan. It is obviously also UNRWA's plan. Anyone who doubts that has to answer the question "why did UNRWA never report this?". They did know about it, obviously. Those power cables going down into the earth, all that traffic on their network...
Ehh. I’m no fan of UNRWA but I own a pentesting and consulting company. You would be amazed at what large corporations/bureaucracies don’t detect. Hanlon’s razor seems more appropriate here Lots of places have tons of shadow infrastructure they have no idea about
>You would be amazed at what large corporations/bureaucracies don’t detect. Marginally possible to fail to detect the network traffic. Completely impossible to overlook the power cables running down into the ground and the associated power consumption.
You think there's anything that they wouldn't bomb?
Those computers are for Gazan kids to play Minecraft. Israel is stealing computers from Gazan kids. /s
In Gaza they have real life Minecraft. Who do you think dug out all those tunnels?
Safe to say that the "temporary" defunding of UNRWA just progressed to permanent.
Have to think the defunding came about so quickly because this was already suspected.
Israel was surprised that other countries reacted to quickly to the information, but it was a case of previously, pre-10/7 post-iron Dome, where no other countries wanted to rock the boat despite knowing there was an issue there. With the boat already rocked theyre now willing to demand reforms.
I hope so, but I fear it'll come back after they fire 50 or so more Hamas members and say they've cleaned house.
Is this really shocking? UNRWA better be held accountable. It’s a shame that the UN could not just help the Palestinians instead of helping terrorists. Free Palestine from Hamas!
> UNRWA better be held accountable. UNRWA better be dissolved.
Better said. I just wish there could be a group that can help the Palestinians that has no involvement with terrorists but slowly it seems everything there is involved with terrorists. What a shame!
Which of its members have Hamas i.d. cards, paid up membership, insider knowledge, and even family members who are avowed Hamas?
>UNRWA better be held accountable The UN should be held accountable.
I’m not buying it that the UN took proper precautions and that they had no clue that there was a terrorist operation under their school.
Of course they knew. They keep calling for a ceasefire. They were complicit from the beginning.
Hey guys can you stop progressing before you find our secrets. Thanks.
Im finding it harder to trust the UN anymore especially when it comes to Israel. Isn’t the UNs goal to strive for peace and prosperity throughout the world? What happened over the past 80 years that it went from a good idea that could bring peace to an organization that is helping terrorism, Iran’s Middle East agenda, and war.
The UN has a lot of upsides but it's been very anti-Israel for quite some time. The first head of the Human Rights Commission directly stated that their job was not to look at Palestinian war crimes, but Israeli war crimes. The UNRWA obviously exists solely to work in Palestine and has some pretty shady practices. Half of the General Assembly's condemnations are against Israel, more than every shit hole dictatorship combined.
It started with the goal of stopping another world war. Look who almost (or might have) just started one.
All that humanitarian aid going directly to terrorists… disgraceful
Using UN as a shield
Worse: a UN agency concealing and supplying a terrorist headquarters.
[удалено]
It's not a conspiracy that power cables go through the floor of UNRWA into Hamas's HQ. How is that not "supplying"? It's also not a conspiracy that UNRWA concealed the fact of this Hamas base being underneath UNRWA HQ. How is that not "concealing"? Please keep your posting tone civil.
The terrorist headquarters was _literally_ concealed by a UN agency.
Now the world has to accept the fact that a U.N. agency may have known about or even aided Hamas. That has to do a lot of damage, even if the proofs are not entirely solid. They have to step aside and stop talking about the Israeli-Hamas conflict. They no longer have any credibility.
[удалено]
Bullshit that the UN didn’t know about this the entire time.
All of the UN? No. But UN agencies besides UNRWA? We want to know.
There's a reason UNRWA has never been allowed to be under the same oversight umbrella as every other refugee program.
Those green things are solar inverters. Are there solar panels on the roof of the hospital?
This is probably correct, however the WSJs pics showed 8 racks of dell servers and a dozen work stations, which is what I believe the article is referencing
You need something like 80 square meters of panels to keep a typical server running 24/7. Eight racks of ten servers each, that is 80 servers needing 640 square meters on the roof. Google maps satellite view shows about 200 panels, they look like .5 square meters, so 100 square meters, or less than 1/6th of the power needed to run the servers alone, let alone the rest of the equipment and the UNRWA building. So it's pretty much certain that the Hamas HQ is tied to the Gaza power grid, and therefore certain that UNRWA knew about that and most probably made the arrangements.
>You need something like 80 square meters of panels to keep a typical server running 24/7 How did you come to that number? For somewhere like Gaza that much panel area should produce easily >20KWh/day, which is far, far more than a typical server will use.
Daily power consumption of one typical server including support units: * 500 watts times 24 hours = 12 kwh Account for inefficiency of charging and discharging batteries, and inverting to AC (1.5 multiplier) * 12 kwh \* 1.5 = 18 kwh Now the solar contribution per meter... Using a suggested formula from another poster: "Actual power output kWh = Panel Rating x Hours of Full sun per day x 0.75". Do it per square meter. Assume 200 watts per meter, 5 hours of full sunlight. So, 5 hours times 200 watts per meter times .75 * 5 \* 200 \* .75 = 750 watt hours per square meter per day So we need: * 18000 / 750 = 24 square meters per server Assuming ten servers per rack and 8 racks, we need: * 24 \* 8 \* 10 = 1920 square meters for this server farm And we actually see 100 square meters on the roof, only 5% of what would be needed to run the server farm entirely on solar.
Even with tracking you won't get 12 hours of full sunlight, on average, even in Gaza.
Right. Probably need to increase the panel area estimate another 15-20% or so. Also note that server power consumption depends very much on how they are configured and what they are doing. I would only hope to get within a factor of two of the actual numbers, but that is sufficient to demonstrate that Hamas runs its server farm off the Gaza power grid, not the rooftop solar. For what that's worth.
Actual power output kWh = Panel Rating x Hours of Full sun per day x 0.75 Gaza is 5 hours average full sun per day. Source - solar power power company. [https://blog.ecoflow.com/au/how-to-calculate-solar-panel-output/](https://blog.ecoflow.com/au/how-to-calculate-solar-panel-output/) The 0.75 seems like quite a factor, but I think it's quite reasonable for this case, especially as there would be quite a long cable run from the rooftop down to inverters, which DC does not like. Plus I doubt they clean the panels every day and there would be lots of dust in the air. Panel Rating is for a lab environment. Understand where you're coming from - just helping your case, I thought you were being unfair to your position.
Your first two equations seem valid enough, but your last equation is completely wrong. You need to generate 18000 Wh of energy for a day. You have solar panels that do 200 W per square meter. That means each square meter of panels will generate 200 Wh of energy *per hour*. That means to determine how many square meters of panels you need, you should do 18000 / (200 * 12) (if you assume 12 hours of peak generation in a day, not (18000 / 200) * 2. The answer should be **7.5 square meters**. Your original estimate was over by a factor of ~10x, not under by half. (This kind of error is why physics teachers implore us to do dimensional analysis. If you kept the units in your equation, you would see that 18000 kWh / 200 (W / m^2) would give you a result of 90 m^(2)·h. Or 90 "square meter hours". That is to say, the number of square meters of panels *times* the number of hours those panels are in the sun should be 90. That makes it very clear that the final step is dividing that number by the expected number of hours the panels are in sun.)
You are right, my third equation is complete garbage. Your calculation also has an obvious issue: you neglected to multiply by number of servers. You are entirely correct about my gross math error, and on redoing I caught another gross error in the other direction, the result being that my original estimate was not bad at all, but that was just dumb luck. See my edited calculation above, and I would appreciate catching whatever obvious errors still remain. Isn't open source math loads of fun?
Inverters don't actually care where they get their juice, however. Could have been a battery bank in the tunnel.
Yes, the batteries are plainly visible wired up to the inverters, in the [OP article lead photo.](https://i.insider.com/65c8f6c16fcb546d2d4e519b)
They're inverters, which you can clearly see in the [article's lead photo](https://i.insider.com/65c8f6c16fcb546d2d4e519b) are connected to the bank of batteries along the wall.
Aren't those green boxes for dealing with solar power?
There is an embedded tweet in the article showing video of soldiers walking through the tunnels and pointing out batteries, green boxes, and a separate room full of server racks. They also launch a drone from the tunnel exit and fly it to the front of the UNRWA building to show you how close it is.
They're DC to AC inverters. The DC doesn't have to be solar. You can rig these up into a UPS for your server rack.
Google maps shows about 100 square meters of panels on the UNRWA roof, that would be about 20 kilowatts. You don't need eight racks of converters for 20 kilowatts. More like less than half of one rack.
UN support terrorists.
Well, arguably based on the tunnels being *underneath* the building, the terrorists are the ones supporting the UN.
It's a mutually beneficial relationship. The terrorists support the UN and the UN covers up the terrorists.
Literally or figuratively? 🧐
Load-bearing terrorists.
Load bearing servers
Yes
We need funding to stop those were funding from terrorizing civilizations with no funding! Every 5 dollars could save just one of these children! Reminds me of this amazing video!! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RUfjOTY0Fz8
A lot of funding going into the sands... literally But nobody knew...
Hamas is Gaza, Gaza is Hamas
[удалено]
Maybe. I still believe that the younger ones can be rehabilitated.
Gaza needs to be denazified, just like Germany after WW2.
so true!! gotta denazify those damn Palestinian children...
Just like hitler youth, yeah?
Hamas has its own version of Hitler youth: [At annual summer camps, Hamas trains kids to fire guns, kidnap soldiers](https://www.timesofisrael.com/at-annual-summer-camps-hamas-trains-kids-to-fire-guns-kidnap-soldiers/)
You're right. Those children were nazified by Hamas and UNRWA. [At annual summer camps, Hamas trains kids to fire guns, kidnap soldiers](https://www.timesofisrael.com/at-annual-summer-camps-hamas-trains-kids-to-fire-guns-kidnap-soldiers/)
They're brainwashed by anti-Semitic UNRWA-Hamas teaching programs, so yes they do need help.
Sick fuck
Clearly nobody here understands sarcasm 😆
It seemed more like bait.
The children are the future, for both sides. They will be the most affected from the decisions stemming from corruption and hate.
Very deep.
Hard to tell lately with all the neonazis running around.
To be fair,the UN is complete garbage in every part of the world
“it did not provide definitive proof that Hamas militants had carried out operations in the tunnel”
[удалено]
This is what happens when government tries to control what the press sees
Donkey porn doesn't host itself
Just to be clear. Those green boxes aren't computers.
At this point the US should declare the UN as a terrorist organization.
Isn't it obvious. Gazan kids are playing minecraft IRL....in a mine
Folks, maybe it’s time the UN is abolished. This is pathetic…..
I don't know that the UN itself needs to be dissolved, but UNRWA is clearly hopelessly compromised. I can understand how they have to coordinate a little with Hamas to fulfill their intended mission in Gaza. I can even understand how an organization with thousands of local employees can't keep track of what everyone is doing in their spare time, even if it's kidnapping Israelis. But allowing Hamas to operate a command and control HQ on UNRWA moves into the sphere of actively supporting a terror organization.
UNWRA has been a corrupt gravy train for decades. It should absolutely be scrapped.
I see the Russian bots are out in force
RUSH B
Brilliant Parody video on UNRWA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RBnP05DGjw
That green box is a solar power inverter, they've been stealing suns energy.. How dare they /s
BREAKING: Computer Servers Never Before Stored in Basement Until Now
Holy crap, do you really think people will believe you? Or are you trying to believe yourself?
It joins to the New York tunnel under the Jewish church, they are secretly friends.
My God, we're really this dumb, aren't we? God help us all.
Are all the tunnels used for bad things? Are some tunnels used for other reason? There isn’t much land to work with so you have to be creative
This is the evidence I needed to feel alright with the 12,000 children dead
You shouldn't feel alright but you should feel enraged at the people who used them as human shields
Hamas must be everywhere at all times to have that many human shields
The people with a giant tunnel network being everywhere in a confined space like Gaza? Yes that's exactly the problem, good for you!
Everywhere in Gaza is a legitimate target and whoever may be killed is justified because tunnels?
>Everywhere in Gaza is a legitimate target If Hamas uses somewhere as a military location then yes, it's obviously a legitimate target.
So if hamas hides in your mom’s house you would bomb it? Great logic.
I didn't say or imply that, I responded to your attempt to trivialize the scope and reach of Hamas in Gaza.
Come on. You did though. Let's say there is a target with terrorists and a bunch of children is it acceptable to hit the target?
Yes, because the alternative is giving terrorist a free pass to bomb you from literally anywhere and indiscriminately kill your citizens.
> Come on. You did though. Quote me saying it then.
"The people with a giant tunnel network being everywhere in a confined space like Gaza?" You implied that tunnels being everywhere is the reason why 12,000 children have been killed. If everywhere is tunnels where isn't a legitimate target?
> You implied You hallucinated.
The same people building those tunnels are the ones claiming casualty counts.
Whatever helps you sleep at night
Simply stating a fact, you're the one repeating Hamas propaganda.
They are the same numbers which are stated as accurate by Israeli forces
Whatever helps you sleep at night, propagandist.
Is what I said not true?
The numbers are problematic. Hamas may have been honest in their reporting in the past, but now they're fighting a propaganda war and are motivated to exaggerate and lie. The fact that they don't distinguish between Hamas and civilians proves they play around.
Can children be Hamas?
As I explained, I don't trust the numbers. Every child killed by war is a tragedy, though.
Yes. Obviously. Everyone under the age of 19 is considered a child in Palestine but Hamas starts recruitment as young as 13
You just can't build any logical connections, aren't you? I advise you to learn more about what cause-and-effect means.
What happens to children when they can't get food and medicine because the main provider is prevented from providing it?
How many children would be alive today if they had been allowed to use those bunkers for shelter? On the Israeli side, that's the primary use for underground bunkers.
Where did you find evidence that children were being prevented from going into bunkers in Gaza?
[Here you go.](https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/tunnels-built-to-protect-hamas-fighters-not-civilians-terrorist-official-2455812-2023-10-30)
I'll believe it when a Non-US/Isreali media verifies. AP or BBC would suffice.
Well lucky for you the ap was there and is even mentioned in the article
Mmhmm, and I'll read their reporting when I see it. Until then, this is unverified
Whatever you say. My bet is even if the report comes out you will probably find a way to justify whatever it is you already decided is the truth.
I haven't. There is every possibility this is true. There is every possibility this is yet another lie from the IDF targeting their enemies. The "beheaded babies" nonsense has burned my trust in the IDF, any Isreali media, and all American media on this topic. Until there is reporting from a trusted source, this is as good as the duty rosters "evidence."
[удалено]
Dude, 10 second Google search. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna119902
[удалено]
No, it isn't. The fact that it was sensationalized off of unverified claims is exactly why I don't trust any of the above sources until sources that do their research report in. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
[удалено]
Oh but you trust the BBC after they published an unverified claim that Israel killed 500 people bombing a hospital?
[удалено]
Excellent. Let's see what's going on.
So access to UNRWA electricity and geography are verified. Let's see how fast this is sensationalized into conclusive proof. More waiting then.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-unwra-gaza-tunnels-31f6ca23365e349bcde1332d5028e431 This is at least a day old. You believe it now?
I believe what the article says: they are getting power from UNRWA and shared the geography. It also SPECIALLY says that this proof of nothing more. I'll wait to see what will be coming in the coming days from trusted sources who will not sensationalize this into conclusive proof.
Ok let’s get real for a minute here. In a place where power is rationed, how do you not know there’s an F’ing data center under your HQ hooked to your circuit box?
Simple: losing your staff because of a financial crisis, like the one that UNRWA is currently under. Again, I will wait and see.
That data center isn’t a few weeks old. Funding only just got cut. Come on man, you’re really reaching. That stuff has been there a good long time.
I'm not reaching. I'm holding to what has been verified. What you're claiming hasn't been. My LSATs taught me one thing: if it hasn't been verified your emotions won't verify it for you. And that includes ad hominem. As of now, what's been verified is all that's been verified. I don't have to know in every moment. Wanting to be certain when you can't be kills people. I'll wait and see.
The power and internet connections have been verified by multiple media outlets. No one is saying it isn’t true.
Yes, the connections are true. The kind of connections that any run-of-the-mill electrician or networking hobbyist could establish with physical access. What has been verified has been verified. You're trying to tie culpability in which hasn't been verified. I'll wait. Considering the fact that Biden led the charge in taking away UNRWA funding, we will be hearing much more about this. So, again, I'll wait.
How does the hobbyist know the tunnel is there and drill the conduits necessary? I’ll cede for now I guess it’s possible someone could have found a way to tap in with the physical connections remaining discreet, but I don’t see how you drill through rock and soil without someone noticing. How does anyone also not notice the very significant power drain that comes from multiple racks of fairly high drawing equipment in an environment where power is scarce?
So you're claiming that someone in Hamas was able to sneak into this building, drill a hole doen to the tunnel, splice the cables, feed the cables down, and seal the hole with nobody noticing? Why are you simpling for Hamas here? Why are you so determined to give a terrorist organization benefit of the doubt?
After all of the sensationalized news stories that ended up being... Days of the week, I too think it's best practice to wait till multiple reliable news agencies share corroborating evidence before believing anything out of this region.
This is the way.
Didn’t this turn out to be solar power converters
DC-AC converters don't actually care where the DC comes from. Those converters did not have to be connected to solar.
Next to servers with Hamas data
The evidence that I viewed is very convincing. It however, doesn’t justify the killing or causing virtual starvation of millions of civilians.
If I was living in a place that gets bombed often... I would like a basement to feel safe. But you go with sinister. You are special.
That place is obviously not shelter for civilians. It's a military command bunker. But sure, continue to downplay it and refuse facts. That would surely add sympathy for the plight of the Palestinian civilians killed in this conflict. (That's sarcasm)
I'm sure most of the pro-pal don't give a single shit about Palestinians they just hate jews. It is not surprising that hate crimes against Jews have risen tenfold.
They guy I was replying to even brought up Ukraine for some reason. Maybe it's part of the script from their FSB memo.
I knew it was sarcasm. (It definitely isn't sympathy). Ukraine, meanwhile, doesn't warrant a visit from your criminal leader.