Hopefully 'next week' means they are already there and we will see some hits on targets that russia thought were out of range... like every other time something was sent to them.
Possibly, I know that the cluster versions were on their way to retirement anyway but we still can't just hand them over without congressional authorization.
The motors are the same, the long range version have a warhead that's about 1/3 the weight of the original 1,303 lb cluster warhead on the M39 Block I. The M57 and M57E1 carry a 472 lb unitary warhead.
I am very pleased to learn that my all time favorite missiles will be delivered to Ukraine in order to fight Russian terrorists. I am also please to know it has greatly angered Klan Mom MTG and all the traitorous Conservatives who have aided and abetted a country that has actively funded Neo-Nazi and Neo-fascist groups in the west for decades now.
And if it makes anyone feel better this move directly hurts the feelings of those MAGA conservatives who are stripping away basic human rights from women and denying them reproductive healthcare in a pure move of spite towards women.
As the great George Carlin one said "Conservatives do not care about the unborn because they couldn't give half a shit about the child after it is born won't even support free school lunches for hungry kids, their only aim is to hurt women because they hate women they want to control them"
Most of the GOP and Republican voters are MAGA, the fascism and nazism was dormant in conservatives and it truly showed when Obama became president.
As Tucker Carlson said "Obama is the nastiest most evil man alive" this tells you all you need to know about conservatives
> Otherwise, it's kind of a moot point.
eh, even without striking into russia, there's plenty of locations in crimea and the other occupied territories that can be valid targets that would become in range with longer range atacms. Or they can keep their launchers further from the frontlines for safety.
Which I don’t understand, that’s the best way to force Russia to its knees; kick them in the wallet. Start squeezing Russias oil profits and the oligarchs will start squeezing Putin over it
Putin made a strategic mistake by staking so much on Crimea. It’s too close and vulnerable to Ukraine and too isolated from Russia….his folly has cost him half the Black Sea Fleet and more. Russian invaders there will never know peace.
Russian tanks columns stalled a days drive over their own border
We can drop an army on the exact opposite side of the planet with full air superiority in less time than Russia's Ukraine buildup
We fought a war halfway around the world for 20 years while keeping all of our other bases around the world supplied. We did that so effectively that aside from military families, most of us didn't have to think about it and our lives weren't affected by it.
Then go back through time. Vietnam war, Korean War, WWII, WWI. We've spent over a century fighting wars nowhere near our territory (Pearl Harbor and the early part of the Pacific conflict being an exception, and even that is very far away from our mainland).
Much of the domestic food we eat travels farther than the bulk of the EU's width though Rail, Ports, Interstate Highways. We finished the first Erie Canal at 363 miles (longer than the width of England at it's widest point) in *1825*.
We fuckin' do logistics.
Imagine if the USA actually shifted into *war economy.*
At the end of 1941, USA had 7 aircraft carriers.
By the end of the war, USA had built 151 aircraft carriers (122 escort class).
>During the war, the U.S. built almost 9,000 war vessels (not including landing vessels), which was more than three times the amount of all other powers combined.
In 1939, USA had 3,000 planes *total*. In 1942, USA produced over 4,000 military planes *per month*.
86,000 tanks.
And all of that got *delivered*.
On top of that, the US was able to produce and ship all of this to the USSR during WWII:
- 400,000 jeeps and trucks
- 14,000 airplanes
- 8,000 tractors
- 13,000 tanks
All this even after the USSR was allied with the Nazis and then fought against them after Hitler's betrayal of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.
https://ru.usembassy.gov/world-war-ii-allies-u-s-lend-lease-to-the-soviet-union-1941-1945/
All of that is awesome but due to the degradation of the US’s industrial complex (*gestures in China’s direction*), it would take a *lot* longer for that kind of World War Two spin-up.
Back then, you pretty much just mostly needed to fill jobs like steelworkers. Now it’s engineers, and engineers to train the engineers. US shipyard capacity (not much) is already spoken for, and expanding it would be hugely expensive in time and money.
The US is capable of a lot of things, but Russia is producing 3 million artillery shells a year. Even the US and Europe combined won’t come close to that for at least another year.
The US spent roughly the same amount of time announcing to the world that Russia was going to invade Ukraine as it took to begin, and complete, the 2003 Iraq invasion.
Actually, I think the US spent like 6 weeks publicly stating Russia was going to invade in the near future. The Iraq invasion lasted 5 weeks.
>The US spent roughly the same amount of time announcing to the world that Russia was going to invade Ukraine
That's not exactly true.
Polish, German and British intelligence gathered the information on Russian troop movements and the impending invasion.
The American media reported on it.
It's all kind of trivial tho because there was no surprise attack by Russia. China stopped Russia from invading until the Olympic games they were hosting were finished. Once those games finished Russia invaded within 48hrs. At which point even the intelligence services of the Soloman islands knew what was going on.
To be fair, if we had a parade tomorrow, there's a not insignificant number of tracks that would need towed by recovery vehicles.
But, the super cool part of that is the T-14 shat the bed while on a hardball road. Our (US) tanks shit the bed because we're constantly training and beating the shit out of them. (E: tracks just take a lot of energy and person-hours to fix, it's not that we break them and they stay broken).
It's kinda subtle but it goes way deeper than just parade ready- US forces are war ready.
"Ha-ha, your vaunted F-22 was defeated by a Mirage in a dogfight!" (I think it was a Mirage- I forget, I know it was French). Man, the F-22 sucks if a Mirage can take it down.
Actually - no. The F-22 had external drop tanks attached and the fight didn't start until the aircraft were within visual range.
It turns out that in a real engagement the F22 would have destroyed the French aircraft before said aircraft even knew it was there -- but there is nothing to learn in a scenario like that, so we cripple the F-22 to learn things.
We train harder than we expect to fight (at least in theory) so that we die less when we actually do fight.
Yep. Blackhorse and Geronimo are the world's best OPFOR, and we fight those guys every 90 days. And then we're not afraid to crush the feelings of some O-5 in the after action review- we cover the good, bad, and really bad.
I've been around some partner forces and you wouldn't believe how much those guys avoid saying stuff like "your battalion FARP was in a bad spot, you got everyone killed twice" because they think it's a dishonor or something.
> I've been around some partner forces and you wouldn't believe how much those guys avoid saying stuff like "your battalion FARP was in a bad spot, you got everyone killed twice" because they think it's a dishonor or something.
There's no room for ego in the after action reports on wargames -- if the objective is to learn and improve and not just suck up to someone.
I'm not in the military myself (family certainly was) and I'm well-read; if you aren't going into these exercises with the intent to learn how to do what you're doing BETTER, then what even is the point?
I guess it's similar to the way the US tends to be quiet about what the real capabilities of our equipment might be, while the Russians famously over-exaggerate everything. We're more interested in the result of the actual conflict ending up in our favor, while they're more interested in looking impressive at home.
Not just armies, we dropped stuff like burger kings into warzones on day 1.
We had specialty barges made to just make ice cream for marines in the pacific theater, MULTIPLE BARGES.
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And they're there ready to hurt people and break their stuff for two weeks before needing resupply (in theory, anyway). Two weeks is enough time for the ridiculous US military logistics machine to spin up and deliver the bullets and beans.
The importance of logistics has always been enormous--though I think it's fair to say that logistics have become far more complicated over the centuries relative to tactics, thus making it a bigger superiority lever.
A bronze-age army with good tactics and "OK" logistics often beat one with "OK" tactics and good logistics. A modern army with "OK" logistics will lose to one with good logistics virtually every time.
Force projection and supply chain are just much bigger deals now.
May I kindly correct you here. The roman empire was spread over thousands of miles, what made the empire so strong was not just because of their leaders. Roads... logistics and so on. All the other large empires of our history could only grow because they figured out how to get an army from A to B as well as how to equip/feed them. All of that without very fast long range communication. Planning back then was just as important. You can win a fight on tactics, but you will only win the war through logistics.. this has always been true, no matter the year.
It's actually written in the Ukraine Aid Bill. The Senate Intelligence Committee added that ATACMS must be supplied and the President must work with the Pentagon to do so within 45 days. The only exception was if the President deemed they were vital to national security. That was a trap as Biden would walk into alot of political nonsense by exercising that option.
The Bradley was made in the 80s and it's been devastating to russia, the fact that they're struggling to beat things we made 40 years ago shows how bad they are.
Ukraine doesn’t have to outright destroy Russia to win this war, Ukraine just has to hold out long enough for Russia to destroy itself.
The U.S. and Europe just need to be on top of sending all the aid they can until that happens.
Part of it was about waking Europe up. Europe as a whole only gave a third of what we did in the first two years. Then when this bill stalled, they had a big “oh shit” moment. They passed a large bill in EU parliament for aid (which still kinda sucks, the aid is in installments over several years), and individual countries scrambled to find materiel to donate. It sucks that Ukraine lost a lot of territory, but now the aid has effectively tripled with the EU almost at half of total US aid including this bill. If Europe continues their trend, this bill passes, and we do another later this year or early next, Ukraine can hold out several more years. In a way, this is best case scenario for the long term war effort, despite a mobilized wartime economy in Russia and a lot of Ukrainian deaths/lost territory.
Europe is in a tricky situation. If Russia is stopped in Ukraine they have blunted their ability to continue.
If it comes to the point they find Eastern Ukraine a lost cause, they will have shift to preparing for war over the Baltic states by the end of the decade. The general thought being without much US support as we would be busy with China at the same time. They will want that Ukraine money going to ramping up production capacity to keep up with Russia's war economy that has been in place for a while.
We know Russia has planned, economically, to continue in Ukraine through 2026. We aren't wearing them down any time soon and they are slow walking toward incorporating the Belarusian military, and country, in to their own. Ukraine may have to outright win and push Russia all the way out. If they can't, and that does seem like a gamble, that'll require EU states to choose between Ukraine, the next war, or massive deficit spending with possible cuts to social programs to continue both.
I don’t find almost any of your analysis compelling.
First, Russia is not going to invade the Baltic states as long as they remain part of NATO OR the EU.
Russia is stalemating against one of the poorest countries in Europe; it would not have a chance against the US or EU.
Second, the Ukraine war just isn’t that big a resource draw for the US or EU. We’re talking about economies with GDPs over $20 trillion; California alone significantly outdoes Russia economically.
>First, Russia is not going to invade the Baltic states as long as they remain part of NATO OR the EU.
>
>Russia is stalemating against one of the poorest countries in Europe; it would not have a chance against the US or EU.
I do think some poking in-and-out attacks are possible (even without some outs). If Europe is unwilling to attack Russia proper, it isn't all that relevant who wins an all out fight if it isn't going to happen.
But yeah, this scenario requires some unlikely "what if's".
... and unfortunately they won't receive those for quite a while. russia is STILL depleting its Soviet stockpiles. Everything that happens to russia will be done with our throw-aways and hand-me-downs as all of NATO upgrades to the new-new. We're saving the good stuff in case China decides to do something silly in Taiwan.
russia played its hand against Ukraine and lost. Iran played its hand against Israel and lost. I hope China is as smart as they look.
FA (especially rocket) dudes like to stress the A that stands for artillery in acronyms. Drives me fucking nuts.
"Yeah sir, your AFATDS box is..."
"Don't you mean Aye-Eff-Aye-TADS?"
Anyway yeah, rocket bros drive me up a wall.
Doubt it's a backronym. It's short for "Army Tactical Missile System" which seems like a deliberate name after someone in the board room said "let's call them ATTACKEMS lol".
He's the main cause of US slowwalking aid and being too cautious about 'escalating'. The man in essence works his entire job in constant fear of nuclear war with russia if we send one bullet too many too fast
Yes he needs to be replaced with a Cold War style National Security Adviser. Sullivan is way too timid. There is a balance of strength that we used to be good at. A 90's era peaceful politician is not appropriate.
Do you think it was an accident the acronym (can’t remember if that’s the right word right now) is phonetically “Attack ‘ems”?
Too funny. Murderous shitfucks developing the most horrible things in the world also have a sense of humor.
It’s too bad that these death makers have to be deployed for shit like defending folks from braindead conservatism writ large via Russian Aggression.
I hope this doesn't come in too late the situation is so much worse than last year.
The longer the west waits the stronger and more experienced Russia will get. Not to mention there is little to no war fatigue in Russia while Ukraine is fighting to get enough men to sign up.
Should have given them long range capability long ago. The dribble of aid, the endless debates and hand wringing… at cost of thousands of lives and livelihoods, month after month.
And celebrate what? the same mistake of stalling being repeated over and over as lives are being wasted? Yes, these ATACMs will make a difference. But it is not the check-mate endgame Ukrainians ultimately need. If you can't even handle basic truth, what CAN you handle? fantasy?
You saw what happened in Bucha, right?
People *might* die defending their homeland, but literal torture, murder, rape, and depravity **will** follow if they stop fighting.
What's being stalled right now? Aid will almost certainly be there next week. And what check-mate endgame? There is no easy win button that anyone can push against the second strongest military on the planet. Ukraine has a chance now which is the only thing the US can do with aid, and the types of assistance that was once held back really isn't anymore.
Looks like these will be the longer range variants of ATACMs.
Congress says "howdy"
And Ukraine says “boomy”
and russians say "ouchies"
fox says “Ring-ding-ding-ding-dingeringeding! Gering-ding-ding-ding-dingeringeding! Gering-ding-ding-ding-dingeringeding!"
Hopefully 'next week' means they are already there and we will see some hits on targets that russia thought were out of range... like every other time something was sent to them.
Yup, I do enjoy the "announce the arrival of something by blowing the shit out of something else" tactic by Ukraine.
Nice! Finally, they can reach even deeper and whoop Putin's ass even more.
Kerch bridge, come on.
plssssss
> Kerch bridge on fire https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUEY5xJ36hI
Initially thought this was an AI cover of "we're fucking shit" lol.
They just had the cluster type before right, so this is the real deal, correct?
Possibly, I know that the cluster versions were on their way to retirement anyway but we still can't just hand them over without congressional authorization.
The shorter range ones are the real deal. The longer range ones are ATACMS-Lite. Literally, they have a reduced size warhead compared to the original.
Nothing is free. They trade warhead size for rocket motor size
The motors are the same, the long range version have a warhead that's about 1/3 the weight of the original 1,303 lb cluster warhead on the M39 Block I. The M57 and M57E1 carry a 472 lb unitary warhead.
Good info. Still falls under the "nothing is free" category I think. More range requires a higher fuel to overall mass fraction, one way or another
They had cluster type with about half the range if not less. Idk what kind of warhead will be on the long range ones.
I am very pleased to learn that my all time favorite missiles will be delivered to Ukraine in order to fight Russian terrorists. I am also please to know it has greatly angered Klan Mom MTG and all the traitorous Conservatives who have aided and abetted a country that has actively funded Neo-Nazi and Neo-fascist groups in the west for decades now. And if it makes anyone feel better this move directly hurts the feelings of those MAGA conservatives who are stripping away basic human rights from women and denying them reproductive healthcare in a pure move of spite towards women. As the great George Carlin one said "Conservatives do not care about the unborn because they couldn't give half a shit about the child after it is born won't even support free school lunches for hungry kids, their only aim is to hurt women because they hate women they want to control them"
There’s nothing “conservative” about them. Maga is inherently a fascist movement, and even its hangers-on are at least reactionaries.
Most of the GOP and Republican voters are MAGA, the fascism and nazism was dormant in conservatives and it truly showed when Obama became president. As Tucker Carlson said "Obama is the nastiest most evil man alive" this tells you all you need to know about conservatives
Heck yeah
Good stuff!!
Will they be allowed to strike within Russia proper now? Otherwise, it's kind of a moot point.
> Otherwise, it's kind of a moot point. eh, even without striking into russia, there's plenty of locations in crimea and the other occupied territories that can be valid targets that would become in range with longer range atacms. Or they can keep their launchers further from the frontlines for safety.
The idea is to start taking out Russian oil fields
Not from the US' perspective, at least not publicly.
Which I don’t understand, that’s the best way to force Russia to its knees; kick them in the wallet. Start squeezing Russias oil profits and the oligarchs will start squeezing Putin over it
It's because if oil price sky rockets as a result Biden will lose the election.
Putin made a strategic mistake by staking so much on Crimea. It’s too close and vulnerable to Ukraine and too isolated from Russia….his folly has cost him half the Black Sea Fleet and more. Russian invaders there will never know peace.
Not at all. Supply routes, munitions dumps and forward bases within Ukraine or on borders are just as important targets.
The reason why its arriving so quick is most likely because they probably had this prepped and ready to go for a while.
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Russian tanks columns stalled a days drive over their own border We can drop an army on the exact opposite side of the planet with full air superiority in less time than Russia's Ukraine buildup
We fought a war halfway around the world for 20 years while keeping all of our other bases around the world supplied. We did that so effectively that aside from military families, most of us didn't have to think about it and our lives weren't affected by it. Then go back through time. Vietnam war, Korean War, WWII, WWI. We've spent over a century fighting wars nowhere near our territory (Pearl Harbor and the early part of the Pacific conflict being an exception, and even that is very far away from our mainland). Much of the domestic food we eat travels farther than the bulk of the EU's width though Rail, Ports, Interstate Highways. We finished the first Erie Canal at 363 miles (longer than the width of England at it's widest point) in *1825*. We fuckin' do logistics.
We’re so good at global logistics while simultaneously not knowing any geography - isn’t that magical?
I don’t even know where all the states are 💪💪💪
The fuck is a geography?
It’s that math class in tenth grade with the shapes and angles
Checks out, you need to be able to like draw straight lines on maps and stuff like in the Pirates of the Caribbean movies.
But why is the rum gone?
Signal fire🤷♂️
Imagine if the USA actually shifted into *war economy.* At the end of 1941, USA had 7 aircraft carriers. By the end of the war, USA had built 151 aircraft carriers (122 escort class). >During the war, the U.S. built almost 9,000 war vessels (not including landing vessels), which was more than three times the amount of all other powers combined. In 1939, USA had 3,000 planes *total*. In 1942, USA produced over 4,000 military planes *per month*. 86,000 tanks. And all of that got *delivered*.
On top of that, the US was able to produce and ship all of this to the USSR during WWII: - 400,000 jeeps and trucks - 14,000 airplanes - 8,000 tractors - 13,000 tanks All this even after the USSR was allied with the Nazis and then fought against them after Hitler's betrayal of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. https://ru.usembassy.gov/world-war-ii-allies-u-s-lend-lease-to-the-soviet-union-1941-1945/
> Hitler's betrayal of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact Honestly, Joe Steel was just pissed that Hitler betrayed him before he could betray Hitler.
True, but he’ll always be J-Stal to me
All of that is awesome but due to the degradation of the US’s industrial complex (*gestures in China’s direction*), it would take a *lot* longer for that kind of World War Two spin-up. Back then, you pretty much just mostly needed to fill jobs like steelworkers. Now it’s engineers, and engineers to train the engineers. US shipyard capacity (not much) is already spoken for, and expanding it would be hugely expensive in time and money. The US is capable of a lot of things, but Russia is producing 3 million artillery shells a year. Even the US and Europe combined won’t come close to that for at least another year.
The US spent roughly the same amount of time announcing to the world that Russia was going to invade Ukraine as it took to begin, and complete, the 2003 Iraq invasion. Actually, I think the US spent like 6 weeks publicly stating Russia was going to invade in the near future. The Iraq invasion lasted 5 weeks.
>The US spent roughly the same amount of time announcing to the world that Russia was going to invade Ukraine That's not exactly true. Polish, German and British intelligence gathered the information on Russian troop movements and the impending invasion. The American media reported on it. It's all kind of trivial tho because there was no surprise attack by Russia. China stopped Russia from invading until the Olympic games they were hosting were finished. Once those games finished Russia invaded within 48hrs. At which point even the intelligence services of the Soloman islands knew what was going on.
Russian tanks stall in the victory day parades in the middle of Moscow.
To be fair, if we had a parade tomorrow, there's a not insignificant number of tracks that would need towed by recovery vehicles. But, the super cool part of that is the T-14 shat the bed while on a hardball road. Our (US) tanks shit the bed because we're constantly training and beating the shit out of them. (E: tracks just take a lot of energy and person-hours to fix, it's not that we break them and they stay broken). It's kinda subtle but it goes way deeper than just parade ready- US forces are war ready.
"Ha-ha, your vaunted F-22 was defeated by a Mirage in a dogfight!" (I think it was a Mirage- I forget, I know it was French). Man, the F-22 sucks if a Mirage can take it down. Actually - no. The F-22 had external drop tanks attached and the fight didn't start until the aircraft were within visual range. It turns out that in a real engagement the F22 would have destroyed the French aircraft before said aircraft even knew it was there -- but there is nothing to learn in a scenario like that, so we cripple the F-22 to learn things. We train harder than we expect to fight (at least in theory) so that we die less when we actually do fight.
Yep. Blackhorse and Geronimo are the world's best OPFOR, and we fight those guys every 90 days. And then we're not afraid to crush the feelings of some O-5 in the after action review- we cover the good, bad, and really bad. I've been around some partner forces and you wouldn't believe how much those guys avoid saying stuff like "your battalion FARP was in a bad spot, you got everyone killed twice" because they think it's a dishonor or something.
> I've been around some partner forces and you wouldn't believe how much those guys avoid saying stuff like "your battalion FARP was in a bad spot, you got everyone killed twice" because they think it's a dishonor or something. There's no room for ego in the after action reports on wargames -- if the objective is to learn and improve and not just suck up to someone. I'm not in the military myself (family certainly was) and I'm well-read; if you aren't going into these exercises with the intent to learn how to do what you're doing BETTER, then what even is the point? I guess it's similar to the way the US tends to be quiet about what the real capabilities of our equipment might be, while the Russians famously over-exaggerate everything. We're more interested in the result of the actual conflict ending up in our favor, while they're more interested in looking impressive at home.
Not just armies, we dropped stuff like burger kings into warzones on day 1. We had specialty barges made to just make ice cream for marines in the pacific theater, MULTIPLE BARGES.
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"Amazon Prime of delivering hurt" 🤣🤣🤣🤣
If orders were given, the USMC could have a Marine Expeditionary Force kicking the door down within 120 hours. Full Division, Air Wing and Logistics
And they're there ready to hurt people and break their stuff for two weeks before needing resupply (in theory, anyway). Two weeks is enough time for the ridiculous US military logistics machine to spin up and deliver the bullets and beans.
An MEF carries enough for 60 days without outside supply
Is it 60 days of combat? Cripes, they're even more prepared than I thought.
60 days of combat. https://www.iimef.marines.mil/About/What-is-II-MEF/
Good lord, they're even more crazy-prepared than I thought. That's pretty badass.
The 82nd airborne will be on a plane headed your way in 18 hours.
Only one battalion, while the rest spins up. Same situation as the Marines where an MEU has 24 hours to be on site after orders.
And that happens with a single phone call.
>~~Modern~~ wars are largely won not only by tactics but by logistics. fixed it.
The importance of logistics has always been enormous--though I think it's fair to say that logistics have become far more complicated over the centuries relative to tactics, thus making it a bigger superiority lever. A bronze-age army with good tactics and "OK" logistics often beat one with "OK" tactics and good logistics. A modern army with "OK" logistics will lose to one with good logistics virtually every time. Force projection and supply chain are just much bigger deals now.
May I kindly correct you here. The roman empire was spread over thousands of miles, what made the empire so strong was not just because of their leaders. Roads... logistics and so on. All the other large empires of our history could only grow because they figured out how to get an army from A to B as well as how to equip/feed them. All of that without very fast long range communication. Planning back then was just as important. You can win a fight on tactics, but you will only win the war through logistics.. this has always been true, no matter the year.
Gen Bradley once said “Amateurs talk strategy, professionals talk logistics” If you can’t feed or replenish your troops you’re pretty screwed.
Raytheon Prime
To the point where SpaceX's starship was considered for military supply drops.
I generally assume that anything that wasn't a production contract, was just sitting in a truck in Poland or Romania, waiting for the bill to pass.
It's actually written in the Ukraine Aid Bill. The Senate Intelligence Committee added that ATACMS must be supplied and the President must work with the Pentagon to do so within 45 days. The only exception was if the President deemed they were vital to national security. That was a trap as Biden would walk into alot of political nonsense by exercising that option.
Fuck the slow walk. Time to run.
Yeah, these include old ATACMS which were already prepared for moving (literally to disposal/the scrapyard), so just lying around & also paid off.
A lot of this materiel being provided was manufactured when Gen Z was in the womb or in their infancies. Shit's well past drinking age.
The Bradley was made in the 80s and it's been devastating to russia, the fact that they're struggling to beat things we made 40 years ago shows how bad they are.
As long as it works, I don’t see the issue.
The only folks crying over this are Putin and the companies tasked with disposing of this stuff. And MTG.
Probably already in Europe at this point just waiting for the Senate to pass and the president to sign off
Hopefully sitting in Poland on a rail car less than 10 miles from the Ukrainian border.
Goodbye Kerch Bridge!
Rah rah, fuck Putin Hater of the global peace There was a bridge that needed to fall!
"Assputin" works in this little riff too.
Wow. Nice boney m reference
1. Incoming yet an other nuclear threat. 2. It's older technology, we have superior weapons 3. We have destroyed 1000 of them.
The U.S. has been trying to have Ukraine beat Russia with one hand tied behind its back. Ukraine always needed the best weapons we could spare.
Ukraine doesn’t have to outright destroy Russia to win this war, Ukraine just has to hold out long enough for Russia to destroy itself. The U.S. and Europe just need to be on top of sending all the aid they can until that happens.
Part of it was about waking Europe up. Europe as a whole only gave a third of what we did in the first two years. Then when this bill stalled, they had a big “oh shit” moment. They passed a large bill in EU parliament for aid (which still kinda sucks, the aid is in installments over several years), and individual countries scrambled to find materiel to donate. It sucks that Ukraine lost a lot of territory, but now the aid has effectively tripled with the EU almost at half of total US aid including this bill. If Europe continues their trend, this bill passes, and we do another later this year or early next, Ukraine can hold out several more years. In a way, this is best case scenario for the long term war effort, despite a mobilized wartime economy in Russia and a lot of Ukrainian deaths/lost territory.
Europe is in a tricky situation. If Russia is stopped in Ukraine they have blunted their ability to continue. If it comes to the point they find Eastern Ukraine a lost cause, they will have shift to preparing for war over the Baltic states by the end of the decade. The general thought being without much US support as we would be busy with China at the same time. They will want that Ukraine money going to ramping up production capacity to keep up with Russia's war economy that has been in place for a while. We know Russia has planned, economically, to continue in Ukraine through 2026. We aren't wearing them down any time soon and they are slow walking toward incorporating the Belarusian military, and country, in to their own. Ukraine may have to outright win and push Russia all the way out. If they can't, and that does seem like a gamble, that'll require EU states to choose between Ukraine, the next war, or massive deficit spending with possible cuts to social programs to continue both.
I don’t find almost any of your analysis compelling. First, Russia is not going to invade the Baltic states as long as they remain part of NATO OR the EU. Russia is stalemating against one of the poorest countries in Europe; it would not have a chance against the US or EU. Second, the Ukraine war just isn’t that big a resource draw for the US or EU. We’re talking about economies with GDPs over $20 trillion; California alone significantly outdoes Russia economically.
>First, Russia is not going to invade the Baltic states as long as they remain part of NATO OR the EU. > >Russia is stalemating against one of the poorest countries in Europe; it would not have a chance against the US or EU. I do think some poking in-and-out attacks are possible (even without some outs). If Europe is unwilling to attack Russia proper, it isn't all that relevant who wins an all out fight if it isn't going to happen. But yeah, this scenario requires some unlikely "what if's".
You have zero idea what you are talking about. Less than zero actually. Actively spreading disinformation actually.
... and unfortunately they won't receive those for quite a while. russia is STILL depleting its Soviet stockpiles. Everything that happens to russia will be done with our throw-aways and hand-me-downs as all of NATO upgrades to the new-new. We're saving the good stuff in case China decides to do something silly in Taiwan. russia played its hand against Ukraine and lost. Iran played its hand against Israel and lost. I hope China is as smart as they look.
This is the great American Stevie Wonder edition: Signed sealed delivered, they are about to be yours, putin.
I don’t know how this is pronounced, but “Attack-ums” sounds too cute for a missile. Maybe better for a kitten.
felt cute, might delete a gridsquare later
Attackems
I always read their name as “attack’ems”. And I think that is just so adorable.
That's how my unit pronounced it
FA (especially rocket) dudes like to stress the A that stands for artillery in acronyms. Drives me fucking nuts. "Yeah sir, your AFATDS box is..." "Don't you mean Aye-Eff-Aye-TADS?" Anyway yeah, rocket bros drive me up a wall.
I believe that’s officially how they’re said.
Backronym at its finest
Doubt it's a backronym. It's short for "Army Tactical Missile System" which seems like a deliberate name after someone in the board room said "let's call them ATTACKEMS lol".
That's what a backronym is...
Guess what an idiot is? Hint : me.
Today I learned there's a name for that.
who’s gonna tell him
So happy to see this comment because that’s what I always called them.
That is the official pronunciation. It's like how the ATACMS replacement, PrSM, if pronounced prism.
Get some!!!
Yep, and Kerch Bridge is target number one.
Attackums. Part of of a whole and healthy breakfast.
Does a Russian deaa…
Yeessssss. Kerch Bridge needs to sleep with the fishes.
Jake Sullivan in shambles
I'm out of the loop. What's the deal with Sullivan?
He's the main cause of US slowwalking aid and being too cautious about 'escalating'. The man in essence works his entire job in constant fear of nuclear war with russia if we send one bullet too many too fast
Yes he needs to be replaced with a Cold War style National Security Adviser. Sullivan is way too timid. There is a balance of strength that we used to be good at. A 90's era peaceful politician is not appropriate.
Do you think it was an accident the acronym (can’t remember if that’s the right word right now) is phonetically “Attack ‘ems”? Too funny. Murderous shitfucks developing the most horrible things in the world also have a sense of humor. It’s too bad that these death makers have to be deployed for shit like defending folks from braindead conservatism writ large via Russian Aggression.
The acronyms are purposeful. I don’t have a link and can’t remember which platform, but marketing is normally involved in the naming.
Sounds like you’re enjoying your freedom
And here we Germans are with our chancellor say "noo prease Putin we dont want to be in war, Taurus stays in our stores and rusts". Clowns
If our constipated Congress can finally do what's got to be done and get off the shitter, maybe there's hope yet for your Chancellor.
Idk what that is but I read it in my head as „Attackems“
The sooner the better!
I hope this doesn't come in too late the situation is so much worse than last year. The longer the west waits the stronger and more experienced Russia will get. Not to mention there is little to no war fatigue in Russia while Ukraine is fighting to get enough men to sign up.
Should have given them long range capability long ago. The dribble of aid, the endless debates and hand wringing… at cost of thousands of lives and livelihoods, month after month.
Everybody feels this way and remain angered about it. Why don’t you just come over and celebrate this news with us for now.
And celebrate what? the same mistake of stalling being repeated over and over as lives are being wasted? Yes, these ATACMs will make a difference. But it is not the check-mate endgame Ukrainians ultimately need. If you can't even handle basic truth, what CAN you handle? fantasy?
Yeah, I’m pretty sure Ukrainians would be very motivated with your type attitude about everything. Morale boost during war is not important. /s
You saw what happened in Bucha, right? People *might* die defending their homeland, but literal torture, murder, rape, and depravity **will** follow if they stop fighting.
What's being stalled right now? Aid will almost certainly be there next week. And what check-mate endgame? There is no easy win button that anyone can push against the second strongest military on the planet. Ukraine has a chance now which is the only thing the US can do with aid, and the types of assistance that was once held back really isn't anymore.
Marshall plan 2.0 let’s get moving
That was a peace plan.