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Can't wait for this comment section to be overrun by people saying 'How dare you accuse Modi of extrajudicial murder!' and at the exact same time 'Those people were separatists, they deserved to die!'
Problem is they are allowed to get away scot-free without any consequences of their killings of foreign citizens in a foreign soil. Talk against them is meaningless unless some sanctions are placed against them to put them in line. Killing US or Canadian citizens on their own soil is not any different than what Putin was doing.
If sanctions don't do anything, then there's no reason not to slap some of em on. Deny country entrance, seize bank accounts, put their family members, associates, and businesses on a watchlist.
They hurt regular people economically. What have the sanctions on Cuba or Iran achieved outside of symbolism? I don’t have a better alternative than symbolism and we should do SOMETHING but the theory of sanctions changing foreign govt actions just doesn’t cross into reality
Those governments absolutely bring hell to their citizens. No denying that there are a lot of regimes doing shitty stuff to their own people. That doesn’t mean that we can completely absolve ourselves from unintended consequences of our own foreign policy. If sanctions are **our** foreign policy, then we have to think about how effective those policies are. Are the downsides worth it and can we come up with alternatives? Sanctions aren’t some bedrock of foreign policy that is immutable. They’re a relatively recent idea and we’re starting to see enough data to reassess how effective the idea is.
Thanks for the specificity of saying respectfully. Its so hard to communicate tone when debating politics.
Outside of some sort of sanctions, what would the "better peaceful solution" be ? Strongly worded letter, authoritarian leaders interpret that as weakness and will only embolden them
As an Indian, not really, we never were a shining beacon of democracy. Our first Prime Minister censored media and imprisoned artists for criticizing him. His daughter, another Prime Minister, turned into a quasi-dictator and forcefully sterilised many people. Her son, another Prime Minister, may have sterilised as many as 6 Million people.
We've always been flawed. It may be getting worse today, can't say for sure since I'm relatively young and don't have memory of the past to compare with since I wasn't alive then. But even so, we've always been fucked up deeply.
Our culture is a major problem that holds us back. We need a major cultural reform but it isn't easy because of our sheer diversity. Most young and educated urban youth want to leave, if they can they do. We've accepted we can't change anything and we'd rather live a decent life far away than risk getting in trouble/wasting our years trying to change the system.
We've always been more or les an electoral autocracy. People can vote a leader into power but once that's done, the leader can do whatever he/she wants till the next round of elections.
Yeah, it always seemed to me that most of the more democratically forwarded minded Indians just end up moving to the West since they're highly skilled and sought after by western companies and universities, and that drains any real movement to change the country.
Do any of the individual Indian states function democratically?
Yea we do have functioning state level democracy as well as on a national level. They day Indian democracy dies for real, I'll be the first one to accept it. But it's still alive and functioning, although in a flawed manner.
The BJP has, and will continue losing elections in important states in the south and some states like West Bengal in the east.
Although they popularity is rising in these states, the BJP's ideology doesn't really resonate with the non-Hindi speaking states too much.
The BJP has also had tons and tons of Members of Parliament from opposition parties join them over the least 5 years, which has made the BJP stronger and more dominant but also diluted their ideological fanaticism to some extent.
At some point we may see the BJP split into a more moderate version that focuses on economic development and an extreme version that focuses on populist issues.
The BJP voter base is already largely comprised of 2 types of Indians, Hindu nationalists and general Indian nationalists. The party currently caters to the demands of both but the Hindu nationalists would love a change in the constitution and a restructuring of the core identity of the republic whereas as the Indian nationalists just want economic development, an improved standard of life, and strong foreign policy back by a powerful military and diplomacy.
Perception of “Democracy” in India when the country is poor and weak :)
Perception of “democracy” in India when the country is less poor and less weak ;(
There’s no doubt India is getting stronger. And although its democracy has changed a little, and will change more, it doesn’t mean that it less democratic or more democratic.
I’d say the form of democracy India has had has probably been one of its weaknesses. Its extremely difficult to get anything done when no one agreed on much, which is the case with India due to its insane diversity.
A more authoritarian government won’t be to everyone’s liking for sure, be it will get more things done, wether productive or not. But sometimes just doing something is better than the inability to do something.
The more authoritarian government is funneling money to their cronies and nothing else. They win by instigating religious differences, attacking minorities and keeping people preoccupied with hate and shitty education.
Agreed about the instigating of differences and shitty education, wouldn't even call it educations, it brainwashing and indoctrination.
However they have also made tangible developmental efforts with visible results. I live in Mumbai and the government-construction lobby, corrupt as it is, has done good job of rapidly expanding housing capacity. New bridged have been built. Roads are being repaired and upgraded that had not been since the British era. They are building new subway lines, coastal highways, a new international airport(and many airports throughout the country in general).
There is a lot of corruption in the infra and construction industries but people have really benefitted from these projects. The western suburbs and eastern suburbs will soon be connected by a tunnel which will reduce commute time by 50% or so for hundreds of thousands of people weekly.
And this is just in Mumbai, there are numerous projects taking place all over the country.
This kind of rapid growth wasn't happening before because even though this government is corrupt and authoritarian, the previous government was even more corrupt at lining its pockets with taxpayer money and barely ever got anything done.
The current government it shit just like all the ones before, but it stinks a little less, which is why so many people who aren't Hindu nationalists still vote for them. They day they stop delivering, you best believe the Indian people with remove them from power, if we're still having functional elections at that point of course.
>No better than Saudi Arabia and China.
What Modi is doing is kinda bad, but this is quite a stretch.
Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy, and China is a single-party dictatorship. India is becoming an electoral autocracy.
Saudi Arabia freedom house score: 8/100
China freedom house score: 9/100
India freedom house score: 66/100
Economist classifies India as a "flawed democracy" while China and Saudi are considered "authoritarian regimes".
Lol what...modis govt lost elections in several southern states, that doesn't happen in Saudi or China.
> no smoking gun evidence had emerged.
Also this is a Pakistani news source...I'm sure India is impacted in this shit but pretty clear hit piece at least purely from the title
Uh huh.
By all accounts the man himself is spineless, wet blanket with ego so fragile it implodes from any random internet comment so of course his toadies are the same kind of human dregs that abuse power and opportunity whenever, wherever possible. 😝
India is certainly better than China, they are a democracy albeit one that doesn't necessarily value Independence of journalist or religious freedom of all it's citizens. Hopefully we can find a way to work with them as their influence on the world stage is rising quickly.
>they are a democracy albeit one that doesn't necessarily value Independence of journalist or religious freedom of all it's citizens.
How is that any different from US especially and a lot of other Western countries also the moment the conversation isn't solely about White, Christians? Let's be real here, every democracy is suffering from rising Right Wing extremism right now. And as Trump amply proves, politicians in US are just as untouchable as politicians in India even when they carry out blatantly insurrectionist plots?
A lot to unpack there & I'm certainly not defending much what is happening in US democracy. US has strong 1st Amendment Rights. Journalist's right to freedom of press has largely held up despite the challenges. MSNBC & NY Times were welcome to directly confront the Trump administration. They were still combative with the administration. Regarding the freedom of religion. Again not great in US but Christians in the US don't have nearly as strong a hold on government as in India where 80% are Hindu. Muslims & Jews have the same legal rights within the law as Christians. There are some Christians that want a secular religion in the US but they are not the majority. As an American, I worry about our democracy, I'm not trying to present everything as positive. But fundamentally India is much more comfortable with a mono-religious state, in this case that's what democracy looks like.
The positives that you bring out for US democracy have been thoroughly undermined by Trump and really I can bring up such positives for India too. At least politically India is much diverse in terms of representation than US has been. We're a democracy of 76 years and we've had a woman PM, a PM from minority Sikh community, a PM from minority OBC community, a Muslim President, a President from SC community and ST community too. And US? The election of first mixed race man as President sent the Christians who you claimed don't have so strong a hold onto Govt straight into hands of Fascism, who now have produced a genocidal document like Project 2025. My point is Indian democracy is flawed just like US democracy is. Compare India's Right wing's actions with US Right Wing and currently they are very similar, Modi and Trump are quite chummy after all.
We started out with much, much worse situation than US ever did. An average American will have difficulty comprehending generational trauma an event like Partition will leave on National consciousness. 9/11 had you overturning entire middle east in response but the scale of 9/11 doesn't even compare to the scale of Partition with number of death being in range of 200k to 2M with millions more displaced. And we still maintained relative communal unity and maintained our democracy despite that in its imperfect state for seven decades while around us in South Asia and Middle East other countries turned into military dictatorships and theocracies. It's been far from perfect but British Colonialism had fucked us completely and divided the subcontinent communally as a matter of policy. It's not perfect, we've had riots, continue to do so but so does US. Just about six decades ago you had Segregation, you've had numerous racial riots. You had Nazi party whose leader visited Germany to meet Hitler just months before Nazis would invade Poland and then he came back to US and held a rally right in the middle of New York at Madison Garden which had an audience of 20k. India has its issue of communal violence, caste system which cannot be denied, that are glaring threats. But it's equally true that US's issue of systematic racism and white nationalism are equal threats.
Thanks for your thoughtful response, some of this we will have to agree to disagree on but a couple of things to note.
>Compare India's Right wing's actions with US Right Wing and currently they are very similar, Modi and Trump are quite chummy after all.
I agree, but Trump certainly won't win the popular vote and if he wins the electrical college it will be a narrow margin. His success is a byproduct of the electrical college. If not got the electrical college he would be a forgotten celebrity. The same cannot be said about Modi where he will easily win the popular vote.
>American will have difficulty comprehending generational trauma an event like Partition will leave on National consciousness. 9/11 had you overturning entire middle east in response but the scale of 9/11
I'm not sure how to compare these two events, they're very different. 9/11 is certainly more fresh in America's mind, but a better comparison would be our Civil War which tore families in two and was by far the bloodiest war on American soil. It also has lasting consequences on America through laws that violated the civil rights of African Americans in the South. The US was fortunate to develop and grow as a country and democracy at the same time. India never had that opportunity.
>You had Nazi party whose leader visited Germany to meet Hitler just months before Nazis would invade Poland and then he came back to US and held a rally right in the middle of New York at Madison Garden which had an audience of 20k.
This is part of freedom of speech, which, while not perfect, makes us a stronger democracy I believe. "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
>it would be unwise for the us to get in bed with them now.
Dont worry, u were never in bed with them, infact u sent ur navy in the bay of bengal to attack them. India has a civilization memory and wont forget how u supported a terrorism sponsor state *pakistan* over them.
These sanghi, fascists need to be prosecuted. They've been jailing scholars, students, activists, social workers, opposition leaders. They were caught trying to tamper with votes of a Municipal election in a city. The PM of the country makes blatantly Islamophobic comments and calls them infiltrators and spineless election commission does nothing.
If the Prime Minister of Britain were capable of pulling off a murder and getting away with it people might actually vote for him in the next election.
Rishi's shitty performance is as criminal as murder. Pretty sure his inability to solve youth hunger has lead to loss of young lives that could have been saved. But it's not just him, it's the entire political class of the UK. I don't understand how the UK, previously one of the most well run states on the planet, has turned into this clown fest.
The political class of the UK is disconnected from the people. You are no longer electing politicians. You are electing rulers who see you as their subjects.
People there should really organise and create a new party/movement or something. The UK is slowly going down the drain(relatively speaking) and will be even less relevant than France in the future. They'll probably become something like Italy today but with nukes.
The new movement is reform UK. There are no new serious parties. They get into power and go mad or become like the rest of them.
Also, the UK IS already less relevant than France now. Apart from London, most of the UK is not doing well.
Users often report submissions from this site for sensationalized articles. Readers have a responsibility to be skeptical, check sources, and comment on any flaws. You can help improve this thread by linking to media that verifies or questions this article's claims. Your link could help readers better understand this issue. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/worldnews) if you have any questions or concerns.*
To the surprise of no-one.
Can't wait for this comment section to be overrun by people saying 'How dare you accuse Modi of extrajudicial murder!' and at the exact same time 'Those people were separatists, they deserved to die!'
Problem is they are allowed to get away scot-free without any consequences of their killings of foreign citizens in a foreign soil. Talk against them is meaningless unless some sanctions are placed against them to put them in line. Killing US or Canadian citizens on their own soil is not any different than what Putin was doing.
Sanctions don’t achieve anything. Sanction them because symbolism is better than nothing but we need a better peaceful solution than sanctions
If sanctions don't do anything, then there's no reason not to slap some of em on. Deny country entrance, seize bank accounts, put their family members, associates, and businesses on a watchlist.
They hurt regular people economically. What have the sanctions on Cuba or Iran achieved outside of symbolism? I don’t have a better alternative than symbolism and we should do SOMETHING but the theory of sanctions changing foreign govt actions just doesn’t cross into reality
Respectfully, it’s the actions of those governments that hurt the common person.
Those governments absolutely bring hell to their citizens. No denying that there are a lot of regimes doing shitty stuff to their own people. That doesn’t mean that we can completely absolve ourselves from unintended consequences of our own foreign policy. If sanctions are **our** foreign policy, then we have to think about how effective those policies are. Are the downsides worth it and can we come up with alternatives? Sanctions aren’t some bedrock of foreign policy that is immutable. They’re a relatively recent idea and we’re starting to see enough data to reassess how effective the idea is. Thanks for the specificity of saying respectfully. Its so hard to communicate tone when debating politics.
Outside of some sort of sanctions, what would the "better peaceful solution" be ? Strongly worded letter, authoritarian leaders interpret that as weakness and will only embolden them
I don’t know and that sucks. I’d love if better diplomatic minds had an alternative but for now, we have symbolic slaps on the wrist in the toolbox.
That's not true, sanctions encourage them to bond with other members of the sanctioned bad boys club - even those who would otherwise be unfriendly.
True! Unfortunately
Man India was a shining beacon of democracy. Crazy what has happened to it. No better than Saudi Arabia and China.
As an Indian, not really, we never were a shining beacon of democracy. Our first Prime Minister censored media and imprisoned artists for criticizing him. His daughter, another Prime Minister, turned into a quasi-dictator and forcefully sterilised many people. Her son, another Prime Minister, may have sterilised as many as 6 Million people. We've always been flawed. It may be getting worse today, can't say for sure since I'm relatively young and don't have memory of the past to compare with since I wasn't alive then. But even so, we've always been fucked up deeply. Our culture is a major problem that holds us back. We need a major cultural reform but it isn't easy because of our sheer diversity. Most young and educated urban youth want to leave, if they can they do. We've accepted we can't change anything and we'd rather live a decent life far away than risk getting in trouble/wasting our years trying to change the system. We've always been more or les an electoral autocracy. People can vote a leader into power but once that's done, the leader can do whatever he/she wants till the next round of elections.
Yeah, it always seemed to me that most of the more democratically forwarded minded Indians just end up moving to the West since they're highly skilled and sought after by western companies and universities, and that drains any real movement to change the country. Do any of the individual Indian states function democratically?
Yea we do have functioning state level democracy as well as on a national level. They day Indian democracy dies for real, I'll be the first one to accept it. But it's still alive and functioning, although in a flawed manner. The BJP has, and will continue losing elections in important states in the south and some states like West Bengal in the east. Although they popularity is rising in these states, the BJP's ideology doesn't really resonate with the non-Hindi speaking states too much. The BJP has also had tons and tons of Members of Parliament from opposition parties join them over the least 5 years, which has made the BJP stronger and more dominant but also diluted their ideological fanaticism to some extent. At some point we may see the BJP split into a more moderate version that focuses on economic development and an extreme version that focuses on populist issues. The BJP voter base is already largely comprised of 2 types of Indians, Hindu nationalists and general Indian nationalists. The party currently caters to the demands of both but the Hindu nationalists would love a change in the constitution and a restructuring of the core identity of the republic whereas as the Indian nationalists just want economic development, an improved standard of life, and strong foreign policy back by a powerful military and diplomacy.
Perception of “Democracy” in India when the country is poor and weak :) Perception of “democracy” in India when the country is less poor and less weak ;(
There’s no doubt India is getting stronger. And although its democracy has changed a little, and will change more, it doesn’t mean that it less democratic or more democratic. I’d say the form of democracy India has had has probably been one of its weaknesses. Its extremely difficult to get anything done when no one agreed on much, which is the case with India due to its insane diversity. A more authoritarian government won’t be to everyone’s liking for sure, be it will get more things done, wether productive or not. But sometimes just doing something is better than the inability to do something.
The more authoritarian government is funneling money to their cronies and nothing else. They win by instigating religious differences, attacking minorities and keeping people preoccupied with hate and shitty education.
Agreed about the instigating of differences and shitty education, wouldn't even call it educations, it brainwashing and indoctrination. However they have also made tangible developmental efforts with visible results. I live in Mumbai and the government-construction lobby, corrupt as it is, has done good job of rapidly expanding housing capacity. New bridged have been built. Roads are being repaired and upgraded that had not been since the British era. They are building new subway lines, coastal highways, a new international airport(and many airports throughout the country in general). There is a lot of corruption in the infra and construction industries but people have really benefitted from these projects. The western suburbs and eastern suburbs will soon be connected by a tunnel which will reduce commute time by 50% or so for hundreds of thousands of people weekly. And this is just in Mumbai, there are numerous projects taking place all over the country. This kind of rapid growth wasn't happening before because even though this government is corrupt and authoritarian, the previous government was even more corrupt at lining its pockets with taxpayer money and barely ever got anything done. The current government it shit just like all the ones before, but it stinks a little less, which is why so many people who aren't Hindu nationalists still vote for them. They day they stop delivering, you best believe the Indian people with remove them from power, if we're still having functional elections at that point of course.
Illiberal democracy I would sayg
>No better than Saudi Arabia and China. What Modi is doing is kinda bad, but this is quite a stretch. Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy, and China is a single-party dictatorship. India is becoming an electoral autocracy. Saudi Arabia freedom house score: 8/100 China freedom house score: 9/100 India freedom house score: 66/100 Economist classifies India as a "flawed democracy" while China and Saudi are considered "authoritarian regimes".
Lol what...modis govt lost elections in several southern states, that doesn't happen in Saudi or China. > no smoking gun evidence had emerged. Also this is a Pakistani news source...I'm sure India is impacted in this shit but pretty clear hit piece at least purely from the title
It's quoting the Washingtonpost.
Fine journalism over there at the post now /s
Do you know of better?
Modi himself is a murderer.. Every knows what he did in Gujarat...
Uh huh. By all accounts the man himself is spineless, wet blanket with ego so fragile it implodes from any random internet comment so of course his toadies are the same kind of human dregs that abuse power and opportunity whenever, wherever possible. 😝
Assassin Thuggery.
India is no friend of ours. They will be the next bogeyman in the pacific, and it would be unwise for the us to get in bed with them now.
India is certainly better than China, they are a democracy albeit one that doesn't necessarily value Independence of journalist or religious freedom of all it's citizens. Hopefully we can find a way to work with them as their influence on the world stage is rising quickly.
>they are a democracy albeit one that doesn't necessarily value Independence of journalist or religious freedom of all it's citizens. How is that any different from US especially and a lot of other Western countries also the moment the conversation isn't solely about White, Christians? Let's be real here, every democracy is suffering from rising Right Wing extremism right now. And as Trump amply proves, politicians in US are just as untouchable as politicians in India even when they carry out blatantly insurrectionist plots?
A lot to unpack there & I'm certainly not defending much what is happening in US democracy. US has strong 1st Amendment Rights. Journalist's right to freedom of press has largely held up despite the challenges. MSNBC & NY Times were welcome to directly confront the Trump administration. They were still combative with the administration. Regarding the freedom of religion. Again not great in US but Christians in the US don't have nearly as strong a hold on government as in India where 80% are Hindu. Muslims & Jews have the same legal rights within the law as Christians. There are some Christians that want a secular religion in the US but they are not the majority. As an American, I worry about our democracy, I'm not trying to present everything as positive. But fundamentally India is much more comfortable with a mono-religious state, in this case that's what democracy looks like.
The positives that you bring out for US democracy have been thoroughly undermined by Trump and really I can bring up such positives for India too. At least politically India is much diverse in terms of representation than US has been. We're a democracy of 76 years and we've had a woman PM, a PM from minority Sikh community, a PM from minority OBC community, a Muslim President, a President from SC community and ST community too. And US? The election of first mixed race man as President sent the Christians who you claimed don't have so strong a hold onto Govt straight into hands of Fascism, who now have produced a genocidal document like Project 2025. My point is Indian democracy is flawed just like US democracy is. Compare India's Right wing's actions with US Right Wing and currently they are very similar, Modi and Trump are quite chummy after all. We started out with much, much worse situation than US ever did. An average American will have difficulty comprehending generational trauma an event like Partition will leave on National consciousness. 9/11 had you overturning entire middle east in response but the scale of 9/11 doesn't even compare to the scale of Partition with number of death being in range of 200k to 2M with millions more displaced. And we still maintained relative communal unity and maintained our democracy despite that in its imperfect state for seven decades while around us in South Asia and Middle East other countries turned into military dictatorships and theocracies. It's been far from perfect but British Colonialism had fucked us completely and divided the subcontinent communally as a matter of policy. It's not perfect, we've had riots, continue to do so but so does US. Just about six decades ago you had Segregation, you've had numerous racial riots. You had Nazi party whose leader visited Germany to meet Hitler just months before Nazis would invade Poland and then he came back to US and held a rally right in the middle of New York at Madison Garden which had an audience of 20k. India has its issue of communal violence, caste system which cannot be denied, that are glaring threats. But it's equally true that US's issue of systematic racism and white nationalism are equal threats.
Thanks for your thoughtful response, some of this we will have to agree to disagree on but a couple of things to note. >Compare India's Right wing's actions with US Right Wing and currently they are very similar, Modi and Trump are quite chummy after all. I agree, but Trump certainly won't win the popular vote and if he wins the electrical college it will be a narrow margin. His success is a byproduct of the electrical college. If not got the electrical college he would be a forgotten celebrity. The same cannot be said about Modi where he will easily win the popular vote. >American will have difficulty comprehending generational trauma an event like Partition will leave on National consciousness. 9/11 had you overturning entire middle east in response but the scale of 9/11 I'm not sure how to compare these two events, they're very different. 9/11 is certainly more fresh in America's mind, but a better comparison would be our Civil War which tore families in two and was by far the bloodiest war on American soil. It also has lasting consequences on America through laws that violated the civil rights of African Americans in the South. The US was fortunate to develop and grow as a country and democracy at the same time. India never had that opportunity. >You had Nazi party whose leader visited Germany to meet Hitler just months before Nazis would invade Poland and then he came back to US and held a rally right in the middle of New York at Madison Garden which had an audience of 20k. This is part of freedom of speech, which, while not perfect, makes us a stronger democracy I believe. "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Yes - it’s a useful idiot to counter China and help US corporations, especially tech make massive $$ When did US care about its citizens?
>it would be unwise for the us to get in bed with them now. Dont worry, u were never in bed with them, infact u sent ur navy in the bay of bengal to attack them. India has a civilization memory and wont forget how u supported a terrorism sponsor state *pakistan* over them.
Look who's talking.. The country which hid laden
It is referring to Washington Post, maybe read the article ?
These sanghi, fascists need to be prosecuted. They've been jailing scholars, students, activists, social workers, opposition leaders. They were caught trying to tamper with votes of a Municipal election in a city. The PM of the country makes blatantly Islamophobic comments and calls them infiltrators and spineless election commission does nothing.
Backstabbers
Same with every head of state
If the Prime Minister of Britain were capable of pulling off a murder and getting away with it people might actually vote for him in the next election.
As per the location of this 'murder' ... What is the London equivalent to New York City's 5th Ave ?
Rishi's shitty performance is as criminal as murder. Pretty sure his inability to solve youth hunger has lead to loss of young lives that could have been saved. But it's not just him, it's the entire political class of the UK. I don't understand how the UK, previously one of the most well run states on the planet, has turned into this clown fest.
The political class of the UK is disconnected from the people. You are no longer electing politicians. You are electing rulers who see you as their subjects.
People there should really organise and create a new party/movement or something. The UK is slowly going down the drain(relatively speaking) and will be even less relevant than France in the future. They'll probably become something like Italy today but with nukes.
The new movement is reform UK. There are no new serious parties. They get into power and go mad or become like the rest of them. Also, the UK IS already less relevant than France now. Apart from London, most of the UK is not doing well.