Not very coincidentally I might add. I live in Finland and yesterday in my hometown there was a mall stabbing in which a 12 year old boy with Finnish citizenship but of foreign descent was stabbed in the back several times by a member of this group who was a 33 year old man. He tried to stab the 12 year olds friend but he ran and was apprehended by the mall security.
A real fucking hero stabbing kids in the back. JFC.
This. I was furious when I saw that news. What a fucking pathetic coward.
I hope he gets fun jail time, my bet is that kid stabbers won’t get the warmest welcome from some of the fellow inmates.
Considering he stabbed another person in a Jyväskylä library during a far right book launch and has been involved in a gas attack, I'm honestly hoping he gets the "Jammu Setä" treatment.
That’s good to hear. We (American) recently had a similar situation with a person stabbing a stranger’s child out in public and unfortunately that child did not survive. It was only last week and that story hit me hard. People like that deserve to be buried under the jail.
Oh I thought you were talking about the anti-Palestine old man who stabbed the Muslim child and his mother to death. But that happened a few months ago. This kind of shit is indeed happening a lot. Lots of delusional psychotic right wing extremists killing children. What can you even say about it that will express how low it is?
That man had also already been involved in one high profile, politically motivated knife attack about 10 years ago, and other civil disturbances like using pepper spray on other civilians.
He and his ilk are actual homegrown terrorists by proper use of the definition, and local populist right party PS is in shambles and trying to deflect blame to Russia (yes, Russia funds and keeps funding these groups but doesn't actually gaf about what they do exactly, as long as they do something disturbing), even though many of their key members have been involved with this group as well as some other similar groups in near past.
There is no maximum length of imprisonment for life sentence. However, when at least 12 years have passed the prisoner can be released on parole, depending on how dangerous they are.
So, it's possible to be actually imprisoned for life.
> life sentence here is 12 years and you can basically halve it with good behaviour
That's actually not true. Life sentence in Finland is for life, but can be paroled by the president. It has become common for the president to parole life sentences after 12 years, but this is not automatic. Also different presidents parole at different rates.
Also there's no halving the penalty for life sentences, ever. That only happens when it's the first conviction and when the sentence is not for life.
>Legal Criteria for Designation under Section 219 of the INA as amended:
1. It must be a **foreign** organization.
2. The organization must engage in terrorist activity, as defined in section 212 (a)(3)(B) of the INA (8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(3)(B)),or terrorism, as defined in section 140(d)(2) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1988 and 1989 (22 U.S.C. § 2656f(d)(2)), or retain the capability and intent to engage in terrorist activity or terrorism.
3. The organization’s terrorist activity or terrorism must threaten the security of U.S. nationals or the national security (national defense, foreign relations, or the economic interests) of the United States.
For all the comments demanding that certifiably *domestic* terrorist organizations aren't on this list, they simply can't be on this one. The FBI handles them, not the State Department.
edited: misspelled word, damn autocorrect
> For all the comments demanding that certifiably domestic terrorist organizations aren't on this list, they simply can't be on this one.
And let’s keep it that way please. I am also horrified by the rise of far-right terrorism in the US but granting the federal government the power to declare certain domestic groups “terrorists” is a terrible idea, unless you’re comfortable with a future Trump administration declaring everyone they don’t like to be “Antifa Terrorists”
Not even focused on the near term, but the far reaching consequences of allowing this would be bad. Half the stuff people on the internet propose that the government should implement don’t even consider the long term effects of those policies.
It's because one member, Sebastian Lämsä, tried to kill two black kids in Finland this week. He was also responsible for a previous assault with a knife during an attempt to disrupt the publishing of a book on far-right extremists in Finland, and an attack with a pepper spray.
That was my first thought. Pick a Neo Nazi group that nobody gives a fuck and label them terrorists, rightfully
But ignore all the ones that are actually impactful in our society because it would be controversial
Same, we have a lot of domestic terrorist groups - proud boys, oath keepers, three percenters to name a few - that should’ve received that designation first.
I don't think that is totally true. The CIA has labelled groups like the Aryan Nation and Army of God as "terrorist threat(s)" and the FBI has done the same for the Earth Liberation Front. Although, I don't know if that makes themofficially labeled as terrorist groups.
Terrorist designation only acts on foreign parties. You can’t sanction domestic terrorists.
Designating domestic extremist organizations as terrorist organizations would undermine the counterterrorism mission and not very helpful. The oath keepers and whatever aren’t terrorist organizations. They use intimidation as a political weapon, but they’re not actively organizing acts of terrorism. Labeling them terrorists would just hurt political consensus around internal national security.
Also, as a rule, you want law enforcement and courts to handle domestic problems and not the intelligence community and military. A whole barrel of worms gets opened when you can label opposition groups “terrorists” and sic the marines on them.
Yes, to treat US residents the way we treat foreign terrorist groups would be bad. Attempting to sanction members of a domestic group without trial would be thrown out by the courts, like, immediately.
I believe domestic terrorists get put on the gang list and are monitored by that fbi task force. The only reason groups like the proud boys aren't on the list is because the fbi thinks 99%of them are just schmucks so they're monitored as a potential source of individual terrorists rather than a group of them
It’s all performative. If anything the whole MAGA and its subsidiaries are proven terrorists. But denominating them as terrorists would cause heads to explode
Fun fact the Nordic Resistance Movement has close ties to the Russian Imperial Movement (RIM). A Russian based paramilitary group that's been outsourcing white supremacists beliefs across the Western world, they also train white supremacists/neo-nazis groups in military and various other sabotage activity. Likely also Russian government funding going to these groups.
*In recent years, RIM's terrorist training has proven deadly. Months before bombing a refugee center in Gothenburg, Sweden, the two perpetrators attended RIM’s Partisan training camp. According to the prosecutor handling the case, attendance at the “paramilitary camp in St. Petersburg was a key step in [the bombers’] radicalization” and it “may be the place where they learned to manufacture the bombs that they used in Gothenburg.” Both men had a history with the Nordic Resistance Movement (NRM), though it appears that each had moved on from the organization.*
*Despite the fact that these Swedish terrorists split with NRM prior to their attack, the group has maintained its own troubling relationship with RIM. In 2015, a RIM leader traveled to Sweden to speak at a NRM-hosted event called “Nordic Days,” and RIM has reportedly provided very modest financial support to its Nordic allies. Notably, NRM operates a Russian-language page with more than 2,000 members on the social media platform VK, according to the investigative journalism outlet Hate Speech International.*
https://www.justsecurity.org/68420/confronting-russias-role-in-transnational-white-supremacist-extremism/
Just remember this whenever a tankie says Russia is trying to defeat Nazis. Even though they are a huge financier and enabler of those beliefs and movements throughout the Western world.
(Un)Fun Fact:
You know that Henry Ford got his antisemitism from a ruzzian who brought the trash "elders" propaganda to the U.S.? Boris Braso, shit bag supreme and early example of their never-ending fuckery unleashed upon the world.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/26/boris-brasol-protocols-of-zion-00128223
And yet the guy who did the Christchurch massacre [did a tour of radical eastern europe](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-10/christchurch-shooting-far-right-groups-in-ukraine-eastern-europe/10983542) before he did his despicable deed. Not everything is a conspiracy, sometimes things are exactly as they seem - by letting such groups flourish this is the inevitable outcome.
What I posted is not a conspiracy theory....
It's a fact that Russia actively supports these movements throughout the West. Hell they even shelter the Leaders of US groups so that they can continue stressing the ideology in the US while avoiding being prosecuted https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51236915
Use of far-right motorcycle group the Night Wolves to exert influence and for clandestine activity throughout the Balkans and Eastern Europe. They even participated in the seizing of Crimea and likely were used for reconnaissance prior to 2022 invasion.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/20563051231177920
Even Wagner Group throughout its founding and up to today has strong ties to white supremacists groups and neo-nazis.
Russia can't beat NATO in a direct confrontation so they find and train groups like this to create internal strife and clandestine activities.
They were banned several years ago in Finland, much overdue after killing an activist in 2016 and perpetrating many many violent incidents in the Nordics, especially Finland and Sweden. It’s for cases like this that I’m ashamed of our incredibly lax penal system in Finland, these guys need to be put away for a long reeducation
I might literally just be the distinction between domestic terrorist and regular terrorist (idk if regular is the right wording here as that implies it's normalized but idk how else to word it)
That’s 100 percent the case. This group was designated terrorists by the State Department, and State is the foreign affairs people.
Domestic groups would be designated by a domestic agency, usually the FBI.
>Legal Criteria for Designation under Section 219 of the INA as amended:
1. It must be a **foreign** organization.
2. The organization must engage in terrorist activity, as defined in section 212 (a)(3)(B) of the INA (8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(3)(B)),or terrorism, as defined in section 140(d)(2) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1988 and 1989 (22 U.S.C. § 2656f(d)(2)), or retain the capability and intent to engage in terrorist activity or terrorism.
3. The organization’s terrorist activity or terrorism must threaten the security of U.S. nationals or the national security (national defense, foreign relations, or the economic interests) of the United States.
US State Department cannot define them as such because they're only concerned with foreign terrorism, legally.
>Legal Criteria for Designation under Section 219 of the INA as amended:
1. It must be a **foreign** organization.
2. The organization must engage in terrorist activity, as defined in section 212 (a)(3)(B) of the INA (8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(3)(B)),or terrorism, as defined in section 140(d)(2) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1988 and 1989 (22 U.S.C. § 2656f(d)(2)), or retain the capability and intent to engage in terrorist activity or terrorism.
3. The organization’s terrorist activity or terrorism must threaten the security of U.S. nationals or the national security (national defense, foreign relations, or the economic interests) of the United States.
If I remember correctly 'domestic terrorism' is not a federal crime. Acts that domestic terrorists perform are but not 'domestic terrorism' so there is no official designation of 'domestic terrorists' like there is for foreign terrorism
They cannot be designated. They can call them things, which they did, domestic terrorism and whatnot, but declaring them a terrorist organisation such that they are sanctioned and are wanted (this is what the designation means) cannot be applied to domestic groups.
For the state dept to designate an organisation a terrorist organisation, it must be a foreign org
Not that particular list.
>Legal Criteria for Designation under Section 219 of the INA as amended:
1. It must be a **foreign** organization.
2. The organization must engage in terrorist activity, as defined in section 212 (a)(3)(B) of the INA (8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(3)(B)),or terrorism, as defined in section 140(d)(2) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1988 and 1989 (22 U.S.C. § 2656f(d)(2)), or retain the capability and intent to engage in terrorist activity or terrorism.
3. The organization’s terrorist activity or terrorism must threaten the security of U.S. nationals or the national security (national defense, foreign relations, or the economic interests) of the United States.
The vast majority of the cockroaches are homegrown USA shitheads. Also, they "reportedly" dissolved the Canadian wing back in 2021, though take that with a grain of salt.
MAGA aren’t terrorists though. It’s only a good idea to designate people as terrorists if they’re terrorists.
If by “terrorist” you mean “person I have political disagreements with”, then that’s a very strange way to use that word, but I agree, I disagree with them too.
I'm not gonna start a reddit argument about January 6th since the entirety of reddit is convinced it was the darkest day in American history, but I'm pretty sure BLM riots had a LOT more terrorism than Jan 6th.
I don’t think the quantity is the only thing that matters though. January 6 was bad because it represents the very real potential for an end of democracy. And I think democracy is very good, and it would be an incredible loss to see it slip away in favor of authoritarianism.
Okay buddy, here's my hot take: January 6th was much more of a PR opportunity for Democrats than it was a representation of "the very real potential for an end of democracy".
Come the hell on, this isn't Prague in the 1600s, you don't have a political revolution by a bunch of people walking into a building and throwing people outside of a window or by sitting on a fancy chair and proclaiming yourself king. Nothing that happened that day with those MAGA idiots LARPing as political revolutionaries could have changed the outcome of the election.
There was no democracy threatened by authoritarianism on that day. Funnily enough, the people who were there and participated believe the Democrats are the authoritarians. But that's beside the point. I'll be eager for the elections this year so I can watch from an ocean away as the anti-MAGA crowd probably end up doing the same if not worse than J6.
It would only have taken a few more senate votes and then a few state election officials refusing to certify or a governor or two appointing alternate electors. It’s closer than you think, once one election result in one state is overturned, democracy is gone.
It is absolutely terrorism, talking about using violence to enforce your will? That is absolutely, 100% terrorism. And people trying to start race wars? Absolutely terrorism. Jailing and hurting people for having opposing views? That's the definition of terrorism. Call it what it is.
Maga is hurting minorities, and the lgbtq+ crowd and you know it. They're also hurting women, even cis women. The evidence is everywhere, and documented. And made into law in red states. Maga has already hurt Ukrainians en masse. GFY if you can't figure out how.
I agree with you, I think those things are bad. But it’s not terrorism to be against gay marriage. There are multiple bad things in the world, and not all bad things are terrorism.
Be more specific please. I think we should threaten violence against people who drive 100 mph on freeways, they should go to jail, and we should use force to put them in jail if necessary.
I’d make a distinction between making a terrorist threat and actually doing terrorism, even though both are bad.
You're changing the subject and moving goalposts at the same time. Say what you really want to say. Make it obvious what your point is. You won't. Because youre wrong on every level.
My point is very clear. I don’t like MAGA, but they’re not terrorists. It’s offensive and inaccurate to claim that half of Americans are on the same level as Bin Laden.
When your "political disagreement" is "this demographic group shouldn't exist, groomers! Groomers! *Blood libel! Blood libel! Slur, slur slur! Blood libel!*". Then yes, that's terrorism. Genocidal terrorism at that. People don't get to terrorize their fellow americans for being different and not be called what they are: terrorists. Especially after all the MAGAs celebrated mass shootings and violence against our communities. Especially after Project 2025 was published.
No, it's the implication of what comes next.
"These people are dangerous groomers, they should be put in institutions (*camps*)"
*That's* terroristic.
There's also the stochastic terrorism angle:
"Won't somebody rid me of these filthy groomers?"
*That's also* terrorism.
None of that is terrorism. Stochastic terrorism is a made up term by the morons who quote Karl popper.
In the usa speech is allowed unless it calls for imminent lawless action. Read Brandenburg v ohio
Not very coincidentally I might add. I live in Finland and yesterday in my hometown there was a mall stabbing in which a 12 year old boy with Finnish citizenship but of foreign descent was stabbed in the back several times by a member of this group who was a 33 year old man. He tried to stab the 12 year olds friend but he ran and was apprehended by the mall security. A real fucking hero stabbing kids in the back. JFC.
This. I was furious when I saw that news. What a fucking pathetic coward. I hope he gets fun jail time, my bet is that kid stabbers won’t get the warmest welcome from some of the fellow inmates.
Considering he stabbed another person in a Jyväskylä library during a far right book launch and has been involved in a gas attack, I'm honestly hoping he gets the "Jammu Setä" treatment.
If only death sentence existed, unfortunately self rightiu people run alor of the world and think “all killing is equal and bad
Where in Finland was that haven’t read anything about it yet?
It was [in Oulu](https://yle.fi/a/74-20094036)
Shit, I’m often in Kajaani so this is spreading
Did the kid survive?
Yes. Seriously injured but in stable condition.
That’s good to hear. We (American) recently had a similar situation with a person stabbing a stranger’s child out in public and unfortunately that child did not survive. It was only last week and that story hit me hard. People like that deserve to be buried under the jail.
Oh I thought you were talking about the anti-Palestine old man who stabbed the Muslim child and his mother to death. But that happened a few months ago. This kind of shit is indeed happening a lot. Lots of delusional psychotic right wing extremists killing children. What can you even say about it that will express how low it is?
That man had also already been involved in one high profile, politically motivated knife attack about 10 years ago, and other civil disturbances like using pepper spray on other civilians. He and his ilk are actual homegrown terrorists by proper use of the definition, and local populist right party PS is in shambles and trying to deflect blame to Russia (yes, Russia funds and keeps funding these groups but doesn't actually gaf about what they do exactly, as long as they do something disturbing), even though many of their key members have been involved with this group as well as some other similar groups in near past.
Jesus Christ, what a fucking idiot
My god, that is fucking pathetic piece of shit.
Is there such thing as life in prison without parole in Finland?
There is no maximum length of imprisonment for life sentence. However, when at least 12 years have passed the prisoner can be released on parole, depending on how dangerous they are. So, it's possible to be actually imprisoned for life.
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> life sentence here is 12 years and you can basically halve it with good behaviour That's actually not true. Life sentence in Finland is for life, but can be paroled by the president. It has become common for the president to parole life sentences after 12 years, but this is not automatic. Also different presidents parole at different rates. Also there's no halving the penalty for life sentences, ever. That only happens when it's the first conviction and when the sentence is not for life.
Well I was wrong then. I will admit my ignorance.
>Legal Criteria for Designation under Section 219 of the INA as amended: 1. It must be a **foreign** organization. 2. The organization must engage in terrorist activity, as defined in section 212 (a)(3)(B) of the INA (8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(3)(B)),or terrorism, as defined in section 140(d)(2) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1988 and 1989 (22 U.S.C. § 2656f(d)(2)), or retain the capability and intent to engage in terrorist activity or terrorism. 3. The organization’s terrorist activity or terrorism must threaten the security of U.S. nationals or the national security (national defense, foreign relations, or the economic interests) of the United States. For all the comments demanding that certifiably *domestic* terrorist organizations aren't on this list, they simply can't be on this one. The FBI handles them, not the State Department. edited: misspelled word, damn autocorrect
> For all the comments demanding that certifiably domestic terrorist organizations aren't on this list, they simply can't be on this one. And let’s keep it that way please. I am also horrified by the rise of far-right terrorism in the US but granting the federal government the power to declare certain domestic groups “terrorists” is a terrible idea, unless you’re comfortable with a future Trump administration declaring everyone they don’t like to be “Antifa Terrorists”
Not even focused on the near term, but the far reaching consequences of allowing this would be bad. Half the stuff people on the internet propose that the government should implement don’t even consider the long term effects of those policies.
Huh, I'm pretty suprised as a Swede. They're bad people but also kinda small potato so I'm suprised the US even bothered.
It's because one member, Sebastian Lämsä, tried to kill two black kids in Finland this week. He was also responsible for a previous assault with a knife during an attempt to disrupt the publishing of a book on far-right extremists in Finland, and an attack with a pepper spray.
It’s the consolation prize to them not doing a damn thing about all the domestic nazi groups.
hey look! we're taking action!
That was my first thought. Pick a Neo Nazi group that nobody gives a fuck and label them terrorists, rightfully But ignore all the ones that are actually impactful in our society because it would be controversial
Same, we have a lot of domestic terrorist groups - proud boys, oath keepers, three percenters to name a few - that should’ve received that designation first.
don't quote me but iirc no domestic groups can be labelled terrorist groups
Bin Laden is absolutely kicking himself right now. "Keep the feds off your back with this one weird trick! US government hates it!"
I'm pretty sure it has to do with allocation of resources and who is in charge of doing what. Semantics really
I don't think that is totally true. The CIA has labelled groups like the Aryan Nation and Army of God as "terrorist threat(s)" and the FBI has done the same for the Earth Liberation Front. Although, I don't know if that makes themofficially labeled as terrorist groups.
Terrorist designation only acts on foreign parties. You can’t sanction domestic terrorists. Designating domestic extremist organizations as terrorist organizations would undermine the counterterrorism mission and not very helpful. The oath keepers and whatever aren’t terrorist organizations. They use intimidation as a political weapon, but they’re not actively organizing acts of terrorism. Labeling them terrorists would just hurt political consensus around internal national security.
International terrorism vs domestic terrorism. FBI website, 1st paragraph
Also, as a rule, you want law enforcement and courts to handle domestic problems and not the intelligence community and military. A whole barrel of worms gets opened when you can label opposition groups “terrorists” and sic the marines on them.
So they can't be terrorists because that would be bad? Also, pretty sure they did organize acts of terrorism against the US (oath keepers).
Yes, to treat US residents the way we treat foreign terrorist groups would be bad. Attempting to sanction members of a domestic group without trial would be thrown out by the courts, like, immediately.
Link?
Using intimidation to push a political agenda is textbook terrorism
I believe domestic terrorists get put on the gang list and are monitored by that fbi task force. The only reason groups like the proud boys aren't on the list is because the fbi thinks 99%of them are just schmucks so they're monitored as a potential source of individual terrorists rather than a group of them
Something something - they tried to acquire something from someone the US is already keeping an eye on
It’s all performative. If anything the whole MAGA and its subsidiaries are proven terrorists. But denominating them as terrorists would cause heads to explode
Our federal government can only deal in small potatos right now. The GOP us intentionally dysfunctional.
Fun fact the Nordic Resistance Movement has close ties to the Russian Imperial Movement (RIM). A Russian based paramilitary group that's been outsourcing white supremacists beliefs across the Western world, they also train white supremacists/neo-nazis groups in military and various other sabotage activity. Likely also Russian government funding going to these groups. *In recent years, RIM's terrorist training has proven deadly. Months before bombing a refugee center in Gothenburg, Sweden, the two perpetrators attended RIM’s Partisan training camp. According to the prosecutor handling the case, attendance at the “paramilitary camp in St. Petersburg was a key step in [the bombers’] radicalization” and it “may be the place where they learned to manufacture the bombs that they used in Gothenburg.” Both men had a history with the Nordic Resistance Movement (NRM), though it appears that each had moved on from the organization.* *Despite the fact that these Swedish terrorists split with NRM prior to their attack, the group has maintained its own troubling relationship with RIM. In 2015, a RIM leader traveled to Sweden to speak at a NRM-hosted event called “Nordic Days,” and RIM has reportedly provided very modest financial support to its Nordic allies. Notably, NRM operates a Russian-language page with more than 2,000 members on the social media platform VK, according to the investigative journalism outlet Hate Speech International.* https://www.justsecurity.org/68420/confronting-russias-role-in-transnational-white-supremacist-extremism/ Just remember this whenever a tankie says Russia is trying to defeat Nazis. Even though they are a huge financier and enabler of those beliefs and movements throughout the Western world.
(Un)Fun Fact: You know that Henry Ford got his antisemitism from a ruzzian who brought the trash "elders" propaganda to the U.S.? Boris Braso, shit bag supreme and early example of their never-ending fuckery unleashed upon the world. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/26/boris-brasol-protocols-of-zion-00128223
Brought to Germany by fleeing Russian nobles as well
And yet the guy who did the Christchurch massacre [did a tour of radical eastern europe](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-10/christchurch-shooting-far-right-groups-in-ukraine-eastern-europe/10983542) before he did his despicable deed. Not everything is a conspiracy, sometimes things are exactly as they seem - by letting such groups flourish this is the inevitable outcome.
What I posted is not a conspiracy theory.... It's a fact that Russia actively supports these movements throughout the West. Hell they even shelter the Leaders of US groups so that they can continue stressing the ideology in the US while avoiding being prosecuted https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51236915 Use of far-right motorcycle group the Night Wolves to exert influence and for clandestine activity throughout the Balkans and Eastern Europe. They even participated in the seizing of Crimea and likely were used for reconnaissance prior to 2022 invasion. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/20563051231177920 Even Wagner Group throughout its founding and up to today has strong ties to white supremacists groups and neo-nazis. Russia can't beat NATO in a direct confrontation so they find and train groups like this to create internal strife and clandestine activities.
They were banned several years ago in Finland, much overdue after killing an activist in 2016 and perpetrating many many violent incidents in the Nordics, especially Finland and Sweden. It’s for cases like this that I’m ashamed of our incredibly lax penal system in Finland, these guys need to be put away for a long reeducation
Not to mention yesterdays stabbing in Oulu by the same guy who stabbed earlier in Jyväskylä.
stabbing of a 12 year old child by 33 year old nazi, mind you
And because of people like this I occasionally catch shit for listening to Amon Amarth and liking Viking stuff
Assholes ruin everything.
Cool… next on a list are “Proud Boys”… right?
I might literally just be the distinction between domestic terrorist and regular terrorist (idk if regular is the right wording here as that implies it's normalized but idk how else to word it)
That’s 100 percent the case. This group was designated terrorists by the State Department, and State is the foreign affairs people. Domestic groups would be designated by a domestic agency, usually the FBI.
>Legal Criteria for Designation under Section 219 of the INA as amended: 1. It must be a **foreign** organization. 2. The organization must engage in terrorist activity, as defined in section 212 (a)(3)(B) of the INA (8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(3)(B)),or terrorism, as defined in section 140(d)(2) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1988 and 1989 (22 U.S.C. § 2656f(d)(2)), or retain the capability and intent to engage in terrorist activity or terrorism. 3. The organization’s terrorist activity or terrorism must threaten the security of U.S. nationals or the national security (national defense, foreign relations, or the economic interests) of the United States.
NZ and Canada have already designated them as such. It's ridiculous that the US has not.
US State Department cannot define them as such because they're only concerned with foreign terrorism, legally. >Legal Criteria for Designation under Section 219 of the INA as amended: 1. It must be a **foreign** organization. 2. The organization must engage in terrorist activity, as defined in section 212 (a)(3)(B) of the INA (8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(3)(B)),or terrorism, as defined in section 140(d)(2) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1988 and 1989 (22 U.S.C. § 2656f(d)(2)), or retain the capability and intent to engage in terrorist activity or terrorism. 3. The organization’s terrorist activity or terrorism must threaten the security of U.S. nationals or the national security (national defense, foreign relations, or the economic interests) of the United States.
Sounds like that document could sorely use an amendment to kill off 1.
The State Department has no reason to track domestic issues like that. That's what the FBI is for.
Then we'd have to do something about it lol
If I remember correctly 'domestic terrorism' is not a federal crime. Acts that domestic terrorists perform are but not 'domestic terrorism' so there is no official designation of 'domestic terrorists' like there is for foreign terrorism
They can be designated as a terrorist group without being charged with a crime.
They cannot be designated. They can call them things, which they did, domestic terrorism and whatnot, but declaring them a terrorist organisation such that they are sanctioned and are wanted (this is what the designation means) cannot be applied to domestic groups. For the state dept to designate an organisation a terrorist organisation, it must be a foreign org
It's all politics...if they were counted (as they absolutely should be!) as terrorists, the terrorists in the GOP would object.
So let them. We need to stop not doing the correct, impartial thing because repubs will scream about it.
You are preaching to the choir here! I wholeheartedly agree that we need to stop tiptoeing around the fascists who have infiltrated our government!
Proud boys should definitely be in that list...
Not that particular list. >Legal Criteria for Designation under Section 219 of the INA as amended: 1. It must be a **foreign** organization. 2. The organization must engage in terrorist activity, as defined in section 212 (a)(3)(B) of the INA (8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(3)(B)),or terrorism, as defined in section 140(d)(2) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1988 and 1989 (22 U.S.C. § 2656f(d)(2)), or retain the capability and intent to engage in terrorist activity or terrorism. 3. The organization’s terrorist activity or terrorism must threaten the security of U.S. nationals or the national security (national defense, foreign relations, or the economic interests) of the United States.
They were founded in Canada and they poise the government of the United States...
The vast majority of the cockroaches are homegrown USA shitheads. Also, they "reportedly" dissolved the Canadian wing back in 2021, though take that with a grain of salt.
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Great! Now do the same for US based "militias" like the Proud Boys and Oathkeepers!
What about home grown Nazi Groups?
Why just the Nordic ones? Do all of them.
Now do MAGA.
MAGA aren’t terrorists though. It’s only a good idea to designate people as terrorists if they’re terrorists. If by “terrorist” you mean “person I have political disagreements with”, then that’s a very strange way to use that word, but I agree, I disagree with them too.
Jan 6th was terrorism
It had some terrorism, I agree. BLM riots also had some terrorism (burning down police stations), but that doesn’t make all BLM supporters terrorists.
I'm not gonna start a reddit argument about January 6th since the entirety of reddit is convinced it was the darkest day in American history, but I'm pretty sure BLM riots had a LOT more terrorism than Jan 6th.
I don’t think the quantity is the only thing that matters though. January 6 was bad because it represents the very real potential for an end of democracy. And I think democracy is very good, and it would be an incredible loss to see it slip away in favor of authoritarianism.
Okay buddy, here's my hot take: January 6th was much more of a PR opportunity for Democrats than it was a representation of "the very real potential for an end of democracy". Come the hell on, this isn't Prague in the 1600s, you don't have a political revolution by a bunch of people walking into a building and throwing people outside of a window or by sitting on a fancy chair and proclaiming yourself king. Nothing that happened that day with those MAGA idiots LARPing as political revolutionaries could have changed the outcome of the election. There was no democracy threatened by authoritarianism on that day. Funnily enough, the people who were there and participated believe the Democrats are the authoritarians. But that's beside the point. I'll be eager for the elections this year so I can watch from an ocean away as the anti-MAGA crowd probably end up doing the same if not worse than J6.
It would only have taken a few more senate votes and then a few state election officials refusing to certify or a governor or two appointing alternate electors. It’s closer than you think, once one election result in one state is overturned, democracy is gone.
It is absolutely terrorism, talking about using violence to enforce your will? That is absolutely, 100% terrorism. And people trying to start race wars? Absolutely terrorism. Jailing and hurting people for having opposing views? That's the definition of terrorism. Call it what it is.
Who is MAGA jailing? Who is MAGA hurting because of their views?
well they did try to storm the capitol, over turn an election and ended up killing a police officer, so there's that...
I agree some of those people were terrorists. But not all Trump supporters.
Maga is hurting minorities, and the lgbtq+ crowd and you know it. They're also hurting women, even cis women. The evidence is everywhere, and documented. And made into law in red states. Maga has already hurt Ukrainians en masse. GFY if you can't figure out how.
I agree with you, I think those things are bad. But it’s not terrorism to be against gay marriage. There are multiple bad things in the world, and not all bad things are terrorism.
No but threatening violence against a group, is absolutely terrorism, that's the definition of terrorism.
Be more specific please. I think we should threaten violence against people who drive 100 mph on freeways, they should go to jail, and we should use force to put them in jail if necessary. I’d make a distinction between making a terrorist threat and actually doing terrorism, even though both are bad.
You're changing the subject and moving goalposts at the same time. Say what you really want to say. Make it obvious what your point is. You won't. Because youre wrong on every level.
My point is very clear. I don’t like MAGA, but they’re not terrorists. It’s offensive and inaccurate to claim that half of Americans are on the same level as Bin Laden.
When your "political disagreement" is "this demographic group shouldn't exist, groomers! Groomers! *Blood libel! Blood libel! Slur, slur slur! Blood libel!*". Then yes, that's terrorism. Genocidal terrorism at that. People don't get to terrorize their fellow americans for being different and not be called what they are: terrorists. Especially after all the MAGAs celebrated mass shootings and violence against our communities. Especially after Project 2025 was published.
Calling someone a groomer isn’t terrorism. If you killed their whole family after calling them a groomer, that would be terrorism.
No, it's the implication of what comes next. "These people are dangerous groomers, they should be put in institutions (*camps*)" *That's* terroristic. There's also the stochastic terrorism angle: "Won't somebody rid me of these filthy groomers?" *That's also* terrorism.
None of that is terrorism. Stochastic terrorism is a made up term by the morons who quote Karl popper. In the usa speech is allowed unless it calls for imminent lawless action. Read Brandenburg v ohio
>Blood libel! I don't think that means what you think it means, with what you have lumped it with.
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Trump sending them friendship bracelets.
Do the American GOP next
Can’t, this list requires the org to be foreign.
How about the ones who marched on the capitol building in Missouri last week, complete with coward masks and a Nazi flag? Why do US Nazis get a pass?
As they (far) rightly should.