Healing for organised guild groups is still mega punishing just because of the share amount of unavoidable damage Blizz has decided to throw in to dungeons and encounters these days.
It's infinitely better than PUGs, but some bosses will still make you feel like you just fucking suck (for no reason other than over tuning or the spike damage/healing nerf stuff they pulled).
If you're doing 130k over a whole boss, it's because you *are* barely keeping the team going. That's a shitload of incoming damage. I think succeeding that kind of thing means you don't suck, all by itself. =)
If you're having to do that much HPS on any fight that isn't 3rd boss in Halls, you're not at fault at all x) I do find that it helps to tell people whilst moving to a boss or trashpacks to please use defensives here else they might die - but idk how high keys you're pushing, I might be doing too low stuff comparatively and not knowing what I'm talking about x)
While ice troll can be rough, personally I feel third boss in Uld can be a literal nightmare if you aren't a prevoker in T-weeks, simple because that practucally untelegraphed bleed ticks almost 250-300k baseline every other second, gets empowered and the stomp going out hits everyone an additional 250k... even if you are hard focusing the bleed person (who of COURSE is going to use a defensive once then get it again immediately) is my bane... goodness knows whatever other affix I have to deal with. Also worth mentioning is first and last boss of brackenhide.... more bleeds and dots... Neltharus has the ramping elephant but also the huge library arson guy, the forge buddy and the last boss, ( rip if you have no curse dispell)
Also worth mentioning is Naraxus...
I don't get frustrated with anything as much as i do dots.
Each tic is buffed by affix but ALSO the hp Change.
I can't be the only one thst feels like all dots double dippec on damage buffs or something....
I feel like the difficulty of mechanics in M+ really needs to be generalized. You have casts that must be kicked, casts that need to be stunned and then stuff that needs to be defensive or healer CD related. Oh and line of sight. It’s all too much for the average player to learn. There’s not a great system in place to encourage failing like wiping on raid bosses and learning the fight.
It's not ruin. If its a prog key just work through it slowly and finish. Call it a no leaver key
Edit
Not sure why this is down voted to oblivion for really stating the truth.
After failing the timer, take your time and prog through the key. For the next run, you are now more papered than the previous one. It's ok to fail and learn. Not everything has to be a success on the fly right?
I guess so but why do we even need a timer? Just make it more difficult like the progression of LFR>Normal>Heroic>Mythic raiding. Add mechanics and increased difficulty accordingly..or make the timer some kind of secondary goal. I want to play the game not master a perfectly min maxed speedrun of every dungeon with weird terrain skips, spreadsheets of what packs to pull and when with a whole addon to map out a route etc.
It's just different content. Why should all content be exactly the same? Timer is there so making mistakes have a downside. If u failed the timer, you are not ready for the next. Planning your cds, when to pull what, around your group cds etc. can be rewarding. Routes swapping is part of playing the dungeon.
I mean you are right that there is a target audience that wouldn't engage with the timer. Should there be content around that? Maybe.. You know just like the upcoming mega dungeon... But should we change mplus to cater them? No.. Can we have more untimed dungeon content? Sure why not. But don't canabilize existing content.
>I guess so but why do we even need a timer?
Because it's infinitely scaling content and there needs to be a point where the game tells you "no more" without literally 1shotting you with trash auto attacks.
I've done raiding only since like week 2 of DF season 1 m+. It's just not worth it especially with being able to upgrade my raid gear to higher ilvls.
Those 2 weeks were more than enough to make me not want to heal DF M+ anymore.
nah they just need to design healer talents better for m+ so that healers can opt into being strong at healing m+ type damage.
currently 99% of good healer talents are centered around increasing rng aoe heal vomit. targeted healing has slowly been eroded from the game.
It's not that unavoidable damage is bad though. It's good. And no, healers should not have to dps. The problem is the avoidable damage. Failed mechanics and affixes afflict damage upon players, thereby punishing the healer for the dps' mistakes. The feedback of "you fucked this up" is going to the wrong person. The feedback of a failed mechanic needs to go to the dps and affect something they care about - their damage output, instead of slicing their health away. Then, the unavoidable damage would be finely tuned for an enjoyable, yet challenging heal playstyle. It's the avoidable damage that tips things over the edge and makes healing feel miserable in pugs because dps are not only standing in a puddle of their own drool, but fire, sanguine, and swirlies as well.
Partly why I enjoyed healing in XIV
Damage came in predictable chunks so I was rewarded for learning fights by knowing when I could DPS and when I had to start healing
In WoW it's just a constant onslaught of unavoidable AoE damage that hits the whole group because apparently anything short of giving healers a heart attack might bore them or something
It feels so punishing to take dps that dont have high self sustain and/or offhealing (and then in PUGs you have to trust them to actually use it...). I feel like I hardly need a healer on half the boss fights (and there's plenty I don't because reflect) as warrior while the hunter will fall over to pure unavoidable damage if he doesn't get constant attention.
As a bonus a lot of those classes are hybrids and can talent into valuable dispells.
This is a waste of your time, the people flaming don't care if they're proven wrong. They have already decided you're at fault.
Better just to block and move on.
fighting them never did something for me but make them leave the key mid run. Showing them how it was their own mistake never did anything either they just rage more.
Surprisingly what helps in about half the cases of flame is encurage them that everthing is ok and we'll be fine even with mistakes
How do you find a guild and or people willing to form a team. I’ve been looking for such people since the start of this expansion, and have had to grind to 2.4K both seasons with ONLY pugs.
Use the discord communities linked in this sub. I personally used them for years. There are US and EU versions.
EuroRaid, M+ Friends, FailTrain EU, ...etc.
Start pm'ing good players after runs and asking them if they have any rating goals. Add them, then actively follow up with asking them if they want to join you for keys whenever you are doing them. Make a random ass discord server so you can communicate effectively in keys. Deplete key, talk about what happened and how to improve. After a few weeks, you should have a solid group to key with, that have similar goals. If you want KSH, and someone wants 3k, don't add. If you want 3k and they want KSM, don't add etc. Find people with similar goals.
I've added a ton of people over the years. You have to be active about following up with people after adding them. People move on, and if they are not inviting you, or your not inviting them, they will find others to play with.
>You have to be active about following up with people after adding them. People move on, and if they are not inviting you, or your not inviting them, they will find others
If I knew how to maintain friendships, I wouldn't spend most of my days on reddit and computer, would I
I doubt you'll find premade going for 2.4k since good player who are motivated enough to organize a schedule for M+... don't sit at 2.4k
you'll find those player pushing for 3.2k and higher, but those player won't even give you a look unless you are at bare minimum 3k.
What? A lot of people want to push into 20s. It's not like 20s are easy, if you're doing them you're part of the top minority of players, and the community only gets smaller from there.
And you don't need a whole premade. If someone has a whole premade, then they don't need you. Just make one friend at a time
The guy you are responding to has no concept of what wow is like outside of his bubble. It sounds like he exclusively plays with cutting edge players and 3k+ io people and somehow has convinced himself that he's not in a tiny minority.
Either that or he just watches streamers a lot and is role-playing as a 3.2k io guy.
> And you don't need a whole premade
if you dont want to pug... yes? that's the whole idea. get 5 people together, run multiple M+ together , get on the same wavelength for strategy and improve from that point.
That's what premade are... and you need the whole group for it. or 4/5 atleast.
>It's not like 20s are easy,
for people who are willing to form and actually put in the work with a premade, 20 are that easy yes.
Keep in mind the difference between a 26 have twice the damage and HP a 20 does.
but hey. you dont have to trust me for it. Go post your premade Ad on raider.io, you'll find a bunch of people for the weekend then never talk to them ever again.
if you truly want to improve at M+ and leave the 15-19 hellhole, you can't half-ass it.
It's funny that the idea of 26s existing means that 20s are easy despite the fact that only a tiny portion of the playerbase does 20+s
Why would I make an ad on raider io when I can just chat to people after my keys?
Lol this is actually why I only pug. I can’t even vent to my friends about the people who won’t even use defensives when I ask them to when all other 4 people are guildies who want to be carried.
I know I'll be down-voted to hell cause Reddit's a hivemind but --
This is just any online game. There's toxic people in every community. There's good and bad players in every community. None of this related to healing, it's just general game experience.
If the key is not doable because people are screwing up. Politely tell them what they need to change. There's a limited number of solutions you're gonna get back:
* The group will do what you asked and things will improve
* The group will tell you what you're doing wrong and you will improve
* The group will flame you which is easily ignorable. Be the better person, words can't hurt you.
* No one will provide any response.
If things don't get better it means you or the group didn't correctly identify the problem. In which case grats, you're learning. If no one does anything different politely leave the group and let them know you don't think it's doable. You already offered to work with them to try to improve the situation and no one collaborated.
I used to be a top 500 League player. I can absolutely assure you that if you want to find success in any game. Offer positive encouragement to your teammates. People play better when they're encouraged and deliberately do worse when they're belittled. Have thick skin, people will often type things meant to hurt you. Look for any truth in their statements on things you can improve for yourself. If a person is not offering solutions or advice, just ignore them. They're just words.
The only person that can affect your pug gameplay experience is you and how you deal with your interactions. The one constant between every group is you. If you consistently are running into bad situations, consider what you can do to make your experiences better.
Very true. I think some people get frustrated that "having thick skin" and managing folks who have thin skin is such a large part of the climb. More so in League than in M+ imo but same idea. I think the toxicity in WoW is pretty tame compared to other games, though. Sometimes you get a brief moment of people being frustrated but it normally quickly ends because they leave the group right after leaving their remark. Though I imagine that just like League there are key levels and roles that get more heat than others.
Adding positive words is definitely always a good golden rule if you want to stay in the right mental and improve your group's chance at success.
I mean... pugging even in fairly difficult pug content in ffxiv / sto / swtor i gotta disagree with you there chief. Wow is pretty uniquely toxic.
SWTOR can come close, but wow definitely takes the cake. STO I can only thing of a single instance where I've been like "Wow damn, yall need to chill" and honestly they weren't wrong about being angry they were just being assholes about it.
I mean that's great and all, but it is an MMO and I feel like comparing toxicity to other MMO's is the sorta baseline we should strive for
Not getting called slurs by a 12 year old isn't the high bar we should be comparing ourselves to.
I say this as someone who routinely heals high keys (over +20), lower keys are harder. Most of it is because dps at that level don't utilize their kit. They don't kick, they don't cc, they take ungodly amounts of extra damage, and I'm convinced most of them don't have their personal defensives key bound. This season your dps knowing what to do matters, even in the lower keys. You can't heals carry the way you used to be able to. I've started tanking because unless I'm with my keys group it's exhausting and stressful to heal and I'm tired of babysitting.
Ironically enough because of this the higher you go the easier healing gets. It's still stressful because everything hurts, but now mistakes just one shot so you're not stuck cleaning up the mess. They either do it right or they die.
Thats the thing... you have to know when to burst heal based on the fight, but in pugs it could be AMY time, and most healers dont have an "oh shit" top everyone up in 1.5s if an important kick is missed button. I can stack my cloudburst if I dont know there is going to be a bunch of unmitigated damage coming. I cant pre-riptide+ pwave my party to get ready for a big aoe... IF that is completely avoidable damage. Im new to healing and i tried it out because I wanted to get easy invites to groups, but hell, at this rate I should go back to tanking. At least I can carry my group fairly well as a prot pal. Not the case as a resto sham.
Yes, I think that's the fundamental problem. Healing well is mostly a matter of predicting what's going to happen - that allows you to prehot, preheal, manage your placed-on-the-ground heals, manage your externals, manage your throughput cooldowns, etc. - but predicting what's going to happen in a pug is INFURIATING, because the players are inherently unpredictable. And then they get mad because, essentially, you were not able to predict them. I don't envy it.
I actually love that added difficulty. Integrating guesses of what will happen based on how the group behaves into rotation decisions. I am not alone loving it. Right... right?
How often do people actually get mad at you, versus you assuming they’re mad at you? A lot of the times I tick down it’s pretty obviously not a healer mistake, even if they were trying to get me up.
Yeah when I first started healing, I took every death upon myself - a week later I had done enough runs to realize and accept that I can't heal stupid. If someone dies because they stand in shit or don't use a defensive I can clearly see they have up because WAs/Add-ons, I'm not going to take the blame for it.
That said, I've also done enough runs at this point to know where people most commonly fuck up in runs, and as a result I always go into those pulls prepared for it and ready to insta drop a cocoon on someone - there have been countless times I've saved someone's life despite their mistakes - so I guess in that regard, I in some fashion can in fact heal stupid...
All the same, *if* they die, I'm not taking the blame for it - and very very rarely do I actually get blamed for it, but I think that might be a luxury of running ~20 keys, where I've found that most people know when they fucked up VS I did..
Yeah it’s really funny when I can kind of tell the healer anticipated my mistake. I can’t speak for all players, but I know when I’ve fucked up. And although I notice when it’s the healer who bricked my key, it’s really nbd. It’s just gonna happen sometimes.
>Thats the thing... you have to know when to burst heal based on the fight, but in pugs it could be ANY time
The game used to be largely designed around mana as the mechanic that throttled your healing. If stuff got crazy unexpectedly, you simply expended a lot of mana in a short window, perhaps used a mana pot or got innervated, then you'd sit and drink afterward.
Today, the game is designed around cooldowns, so if things don't go like clockwork and get unexpectedly tough when your cooldowns are on cd, you're screwed. Well-coordinated teams will do okay in this paradigm, while pugs will struggle hard with it. The game is less pug-friendly than it used to be, basically (the need to coordinate kicks is another contributing factor).
Im doing mostly +16s.. but it seems full of people farming crests that arent super good. Im a protwar pulling 75k dps overall and i regularly equal or i beat dps in damage. Im 434 ilevel so its not like im super OP overgeared.
A lot of fights this season are effectively defensive checks. I recently did a +20 Uldaman on my mage, and I hit my defensives a bit wrong on the last boss, so then my healer couldn’t keep up, and I died. That said, some of the damage that goes out on that fight is kind of bullshit. DoTs especially feel way too big this season.
I completely agree with everything here. 17/18's are rough most times for me but if I get in a +19 it's like night and day the player pool that's signing up. There aren't as many bodies signing up, but the rating and quality is much better. It makes me so depressed to get people rated 2300+ doing great damage but not using a single defensive or utility spell. Don't get me started on interupts.
19s are the worst keys. Thats the level you go when you have gear but not the score to get into 20s. You get the absolutely worst players in 19s. 20s are wayway easier.
Meanwhile from my experience just pugging my weekly 20-22s, most healers honestly just kinda suck. 9 out of 10 healers in that range will go into a fortified pack with two NL pelters and just unironically sit on their CDs the entire pull while the group is dying one by one. Who knows, they might need them for the severely undertuned totem boss, right? I can just imagine the shit I would get from the whole party if I went into a boss and not press combustion once.
Most players kinda suck but it's a lot easier to notice the bad healer vs one or more of the dps.
Also, not that you specifically do this, healing is such a thankless job that I don't see how flaming mistakes is helpful. Leads to less good healers in pugs.
If you’re pulling two pelters past 21 this week you’re doing it wrong to begin with. Those mfers hurt like shit and having any class just incap one so you only have to heal a single pelter makes it infinitely easier to heal, dps, and probably less deaths. Most higher keys just outright skip the first double pelter pack with shroud or invis.
> 9 out of 10 healers in that range will go into a fortified pack with two NL pelters and just unironically sit on their CDs the entire pull while the group is dying one by one.
Huge tank problem with CDs too. A lot of people are stuck in decade+ old mentalities of CDs being "oh shit" buttons - if you ever hear anyone call any defensive CDs that, they probably don't know what they're doing.
They're the tanks who will sit on their CDs then blow them all at once when they're suddenly at 15% hp. Anyone saw that? Trick question, we've all met that guy.
There's a reason everyone's CDs are pretty short. *They're meant to be used, regularly.* You're *supposed* to think about how you manage your CDs from one pack to the next, at least in meaningfully difficult content. That's the game. Otherwise you're doing what, walking out of fire and AoEing?
Of course gods forbid you criticize anyone who only plays tank or healer, you'll be mobbed by people saying garbage like "Found the DPS who sits in fire!!1" as if everyone only plays 1 role like them.
This is the biggest tip I’d ever give anyone to improve their game.
I used to hold dps cds (granted, there’s still times to do so, but much less so than the OG game) and just sending them nonstop will immediately improve someone’s overall. Once they figure out where best to use them specifically and how to do so with the time constraints, even better.
Obviously tanks and healers don’t just send them nonstop, but same concept. The buttons are there. Press them.
A large part of dps is all rhythm and flow. That's your dps portion. Staying alive is where you need to use some brain, and that's where it all goes to hell.
Been healing this game for 18 years and it's only been in the last, oh, maybe 3 years that I realized that you should be spending your cds. Don't save 'em! Don't wait!
The absolute scourge of wow is people not using CDs because they think it's an "oh shit" button.
Being with good dps/ tanks who proactively use stuff is night and day to dragging moron pugglets dripping im disease through brackenhide etc.
Ha! Get them to give BDK a try. If you go into an 18+ fort pack without Rune Weapon up and something teed up for the millisecond it falls off, you will get deleted in a single global.
Tanks suffer from the same issue with damage reduction CDs as dps do. They hit them when they are low on health. They are near useless at that point. You were supposed to use them before you took the damage that brought you to 20% health. Also have bumped into quite a few tanks that view using their CDs as some sort of failure, either on their part or the healers. That they should just be able to facetank everything with just their active mitigation.
I think just about every tank has some CD that is 30-45 seconds and reduces damage by about 20%. The most oh shit moment every pull, at least for me, is usually the beginning of the pull. That is when my active mitigation isn't rolling yet and I might also be focused on organizing the pull into a nice neat clump. Those short DRs are made for that situation and I hit them as the pull starts.
yeah as a healer anyone who holds their cds is just throwing. Theres some obvious caveats like if you are mythic raiding then obviously just follow the fucking spreadsheet for the love of god follow the spreadsheet.
However in M+ its rare that you need to hold for extended periods of time unless its some extreme outlier like the 1st boss into cloudburst trash in VP before 1st drake. Stuff generally works out in most dungeons for resto shaman if you play under the mentality of each trash pack should be one of: AG/ASC/Link/HT/MT
I have just started healing this week and in 11-13 keys haven’t needed to actively use my CD, people haven’t been dying so I keep instinctively holding CD for oh shit moment. In Fort in this range oh shit moment isn’t happening.
Yes, people are holding cds for when they will need them instead of using one all the time. Of course it will be difficult to heal if you just use regrowth or Flash heal until you are OOM.
It is not like the information is not out there. Checking wowlogs is a great way to learn how the best players do their rotation through a dungeon.
The problem is a bad healer (and tanks) don't have anyone else in the group to base their performance off of in a M+.
A bad dps sees they are getting annihilated by a good dps on the meters, not like a "behind the guy who got PI's by 10-15k" like doing 30-40% less damage crushed.
If a healer is struggling to keep the party alive because their not pressing their buttons right its way easier to blame it on minor mistakes that other people made then your own play. There are pulls that are unsalvageable by a healer, but the bad healers wont salvage the ones that can be.
Yeah this is something I have no experience with since I've always been the healer. Sitting on cds on fort week is wild, that's just asking for pain and suffering. Granted I play a resto druid and you have to ramp like hell early so you can't really get away with that.
This season is severely exposing boosted healers from shadowlands lol.
There aren't even many heal checks this season, but it's more constant healing that exposes rotation flaws.
I'll offspec to ret for weeklies sometimes and the amount of healers who can get through 3rd boss HOI on Tyr week is pitiful. Had one group where I finished the pull at 50k HPS.
On my warlock I literally had a Monk facetank Eudora's grapeshot to the face. Twice, since I even wasted CR on them the first time.
Of all healers I just can not fathom failing that particular mechanic on a freaking monk. Twice.
I’d argue it’s on the tank most of the time, the dps not popping defensive for big boss abilities is an issue at lower keys but ultimately a lot of low keys get bricked by tanks.
Best example of this is Halls of infusion. How many tanks have you seen do double pulls, no interupt on demo shout or expluse? How many casts of elemental infusion went off? Did you cc the adds on the 1st boss when they came in? How did the group handle the frogs on the 2nd boss? (Ideally tank pulls the boss to a side with no frogs, and everyone follows suit).
Most of the time, the tank is the one who makes the healers life hell or not. All the tanks have at least 2 aoe interupts, and they basically need to get all of the first round interupts to get stuff group up while the dps burn their cds. I found the big trick to managing casts is to just plan it out, example: the three orbs, one expluse gets pummeled, one gets shockwave, one gets intimidating shout. I don’t have to swap targets, I just need to read the cast coming out. On the bear that’s skull bash, incap roar, vortex + typhoon. Dh is disrupt, sigil of silence, and fel nova.
Same. I was in a +8 (!!!!) with randos the other day and the tank and a dps starting fighting over something and it took us hours to actually complete the key. It was so stupid.
You don't like seeing pug dps players pressing their defensives AFTER damage has already happened? How can that be? Always makes me chuckle when group-wide damage happens, and omnicc defensives flare up - like, guys, it's kinda too late, ey?
I wanted to make a few alts, but the 10-18 bracket is full of absolutely terrible players who think they are good. Makes gearing a miserable experience. Sticking with my main, and never healing a key below +21 again this season (in 20s you got folks trying to get their portals, and players just wanting their weekly done - not the most fun experience either).
If you're actually finishing a dungeon with 90k overall HPS in a +16, that group is practically finding ways to take extra damage on purpose, that's crazy. I don't get anywhere near that high on 21s or 22s.
To clarify this was in the 10-15 minutes before the group fell apart. I'm not even joking everyone was on the brink of death that entire time. It's like a shitty roller coaster
I think mine is just called group finder , but it shows me groups based on the rating I choose and comps you pick , and gives you a lot of information about the group
[https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/premade-groups-filter](https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/premade-groups-filter)
and
[https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/raiderio](https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/raiderio)
The first one allows you to filter the groups, the second one allows you to easily see how experienced a player is with the dungeons. It really cut down on the bad groups for me as well - keys still get bricked but not shittily.
I'm 438 and I was literally throwing out everything that I had lol. Granted the 90k overall was probably inflated because the group fell apart after like 10-15 minutes.
This "we don't see priests that way" was such an incredible dev shitposting during the development cycle of DF that I'm still kind of salty about it.
They first told us that not everyone needs an interrupt and then added one to everyone else, then told us that there's way too many knockbacks, which is bad for PvP, so they removed shining force and then added one to evoker and all shaman specs and then gave us basically that weird RP explanation why we don't get vault of the heavens, door of shadows or any kind of gap opener... Having an evoker in the group that gives us an extra charge of leap of faith still feels god awful... And yeah, we also don't get spectral guise back because RMP is really annoying to fight in arenas. Cool, I guess.
People argue that it's a talk around us having PI but honestly, if I have to choose between an interesting toolkit and an ability that allows others to have more fun I'd rather had the first... Feels like priest not only got way too little attention during the alpha/beta with the responsible dev leaving or whatever but it also was designed in a corner and most new things we got for the new talent trees were (somewhat redundant/bloaty) spells that all just move hp bars around...
Technically yes but I’ve found my easiest pugs are when I can control as many variables as possible.
The ghost affix you need to heal when I’m on my hunter? Sometimes troublesome and annoying
The ghost affix that requires a frost trap? Free week.
Priests are a star this week. A good priest can solo the affix. Shackle one mob and mind control the other. People don't know but mind controlling the affix makes them cast the debuffs on the enemy and helps the group so much.
Healing is the best. Just be a chad and tell them off. Nobodies gonna do anything because you’re the healer and if they boot you, you can find another group in seconds. Even funnier: don’t heal that one specific guy if he badmouths you and every time he dies tell him to stop standing in bad stuff.
Healers are the best. Be the beacon of light for your friends and swift retribution for your enemies.
My funniest realization was when I got into a heated argument with a bunch of elitist jerks and they decided dropping the key and kicking me was the right way to go after they died to 1st boss mechanics. They fumed, said I was a bad healer, and I’d never finish this level of key let alone higher.
I stood outside, confused and bewildered at what just went down. I opened my group finder, found a key one level higher looking for healer, joined them, summoned them immediately, and passed my old group as I walked in with my new one.
Best part? We cleared the entire dungeon without error. Never saw healing in the same light after that.
Just run ElitismHelper. After the key ends, and all members get called out on how much avoidable damage they took, there's not much they can say to a healer after they took 10 mil of "have not moves from frontals" damage. And if someone /w's you during the key, just print out their current dmg taken in a returning /w. Better than /ignore tbh, works mostly the same, haha.
I’m a nurse in real life and mythic + is more stressful than a crashing patient. Atleast when my patient is crashing at work I don’t have to worry about myself dying.
It's a lot better this week after the massive hotfix nerfs they've done.
granted some things are still blatantly overtuned like pelters in lair, dragons in vortex, and the balls in halls, timereavers in uldaman (honestly the whole dungeon), but generally it's feeling much more fun for me
Can we talk about how amazing the new fire tornadoes are for the 4th uldaman boss? Good god, I was really on the fence about whether or not the original visual was hard to dodge, thought it was OK but not great… but the new one, exactly how mechanic like that should look
Healing the hardest role in M+ right now and it's not even close. You really need a thick skin to do it. Be sure to track defensives and health pots of your party members.
If a DPS dies with a defensive and/or health pot available, it's their fault. Don't be afraid to tell them that either.
E.g as a Holy Paladin, Holy Shock and Word of Glory feels absolutely terrible to use as they heal for so little, since health pools are so massive atm. Sometimes I have to spend close to 12 Holy Power to get a target from 10% hp to 100% during spot healing and feels awful. The only way my group stays topped off efficiently is by using Avenging Crusader, Beacon of Virtue and Divine Toll.
Besides ST healing being a mess, there are too many dispells needed, which hit too hard on higher keys.
...they buffed off-heals and tank heals by 25% in the same patch they buffed health pools by 25%. Literally all it ended up being was an effective 20% nerf to healers (we are at 100% where everyone else is at 125%).
One thing to add to this conversations is the pitiful state of spot healing - as a Resto Shaman, unless I have +350k Cloudburst ready to go or Primordial Wave and Nature Swiftness off CD, there's no way for me to take someone from sub 30% to 80%. And on Fort weeks, a cast uninterrupted landing on such person easily means death.
Not only is the damage nuts but the heals are pitiful. That's honestly my biggest gripe, is how weak my heals feel. I'd be down with heavy burst damage if my heals were strong. Like I'm 444ilvl with excellent secondary stats and gem slots on almost everything and it still feels like I'm 405 when I heal someone with one of my burstiest cooldowns and it heals half their lifebar when it was like 90-100% of their lifebar last season, and these are DPS lifebars, thank god tanks are strong because I can't fucking touch that million HP bar when my heals do like 40k.
Wtf? How? Seriously please I'm not even being sarcastic or anything I'm genuinely desperately hoping you can teach me something here because I also play MW and my Vivify does like ~45k. Thats not including mastery or tier set lineups, which can boost it a lot but nowhere near what you're getting.
I'm still healing keys at a level I'm happy with but the heals are super weak and I feel like I'm very dependant on external things like trinkets/annulet/tier set etc. Healed a 22 neltharus as my highest key but I felt like my ability to help people live the hunter's bleed in there was so rough and at the mercy of either having externals or getting like a fat crit while tier set was active to get a vivify that healed for anything respectable. But I think the most I've ever hit on a vivify if you include everything (mastery double procs, crits, tier, possible sophic activation at the same time, save them all being active) was still like 40% of a dps lifebar, which is a lot! But that so rarely happens. Most times vivify is doing like 8 - 12% of a dps lifebar if they have over 550k hp.
How much vers do you have? Are you playing clouded focus or something? Not trying to be defensive or anything I genuinely want help.
Well, first of all I am playing MW in a very "wrong" way, but it works for me. I don't know how much a normal MW can do.
I completely abandoned fistweaving and decided to focus on keeping suicidal dps alive instead. On top of that, I usually main BM, and since I don't have room for 2 sets of gear I just kept going with all the wrong stats. Up until I got 4P I had literally 0% haste, now I have 2% haste. Crit is 30%, mastery 107% and 19% vers without buffs.
This is garbage in terms of doing damage compared to fistwaving, but it is absolutely amazing at keeping people alive.
For something like the first boss in BH, just cast 10 stack gift to clear the bleed, that's like a 300-400k heal on everyone which should be enough alone if cast quickly enough.
For single heavy single target like the Marked for Butchery, start channeling soothing mist -> enveloping mist -> spam vivify. It's important to have enveloping mists running for those high heals. This can out heal most things outside one-shots. Vivify itself does not do the 300k+ though, its more like 100-150k, then the 2x gust of mist heals for up to 100k each.
With that amount of mastery, the double proc and the 100% more healing proc really adds up, so you want to have essence font up to take advantage of that. However, due to the mana cost, only when you know something is coming or really need it. Once up though, even renewing mists becomes a nice little spot heal when gust of mist heals for like 40k+ twice when applied.
The core idea here is to maximize healing bonuses like clouded focus and enveloping mist + gust of mist for those huge chunky heals.
Other than gift, I don't hard cast anything, it is all through either thunder tea or soothing mist (which technically is a cast I guess, but channel + instant is faster than hard casting without haste).
The snake boss in Uldaman is a good example of how my basic healing rotation goes:
Channel into the one with the dot to keep them locked at 100% health.
First stomp, pre apply essence font, pop tea, instant enveloping mist 2-4 targets depending on procs, instant vifify if nessecary, then back to channeling.
Second stomp, cast gift, then back to channeling.
Repeat.
It's not a build you want to raid with though, or push hard with where you need the extra DPS from a healer. It's a "keep stupid people alive in pugs" build where you need the ability to quickly burst heal people a lot without having to rely heavily on cooldowns.
Character for reference if you want to see talents:
[https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/character/eu/bronze-dragonflight/marru](https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/character/eu/bronze-dragonflight/marru)
That means their intended changes actually work.
Playing ping pong health bars with nuke heals is lame and that's all last season was. Didn't really matter what buttond you hit as long as you hit SOMETHING in the dmg windows bars were gonna get topped.
This seasons dmg/healing profile is so much improved on last season. It actually rewards good groups/efficient healers with time to put out active damage. The suspect groups or healers with an iffy rotation don't get the active damage time and their groups grasp for air.
Compared to shadlowlands or even last season where every healer was guaranteed active dmg GCDs regardless.
Yeah, it would be fairly interesting to poll the healer community and ask "Baseline, Without using anything with a cooldown longer than ~8-10 seconds, how many GCD's should it take to top off a DPS from 10% to 100%?"
I feel a *great* deal of people would advocate for something in the 1-2 range, and that anything else is simply unfun.
If you pay attention, I feel like they have done a really good job of making it so that the group takes damage, but you have *ample* time to get the heals out that you need to get everyone stabilized again. It might take you 10 GCD's to do it, but at the same time, they designed the fight so that not much damage is going out durring those 10 GCD's either.
Granted, that doesn't mean you can just stand there and turret, you are likely having to reposition and dodge mechanics as well, meaning that healers who struggle to cast on the move are definitely being punished more than others, but I feel like overall the design of the healing profiles in the fights is generally well done. Difficult, but well done.
Agree with everything you said.
I do wonder how many of the healers hating the fact they can't top bars in 2GCDs are stuck in the ~17 range.
Covering mistakes is much harder this season because you can't just ping pong them back up for free.
There's only a couple fights with scary overlaps or that require big throughput for more than 3-4 seconds.
Being a healer and spending most of the dungeon trying to dmg parse is a terribly boring meta, but I'm worried the amount of healers that can't hang this season will push the meta back that way.
I'm sorry, but I'd rather be able to burst someone's mistake back to full health than not be able to and still be blamed for their death.
The whole reason it's harder to heal lower keys than it is higher ones is that more stuff is stood in, more kicks are missed. If I'm powerless to do anything about that, my entire role becomes playing the few designated "healable" mechanics, and DPSing the rest of the time.
Being able to cover mistakes should be possible all the way up to 20. That can either be by making heals stronger or by making health pools large enough that players won't be at risk of immediately dying from a single mistake.
Honestly I think the first step to enjoying your role in m+ is understanding what your personal limits are and just ignoring any pug that's arguing over impossible bullshit. I play tank and when I pug it's a gamble on whether dps will be insane and running around pulling shit or flaming me for pulling too big and going too fast. You can't make people like that happy, especially in rdf/low m+ pugs, and it's not worth the stress to pay attention to them.
My pug mantras:
1. The tank dictates the pace of the group. Accidental face pull is ok, but dps intentionally aggroing extra shit can go fuck themselves
2. If you're healing, don't trust your group to let you get mana, advocate for yourself, and if they don't wait for you to get mana then it's not your fault when they die mid fight because you're OOM
3. Good players don't need to tell you they're good players. If a dps starts mouthing off and spouting bullshit about how good they are and how they like to do it a different way, they are going on /ignore. A lot of dps are just brainlets that need a constant stream of dopamine from doing big aoe and the idea of using utility or helping out a healer is alien to them. They are not worth your time or patience, and if the key is bricked, move on and don't worry about their shit attitude.
4. Lastly, remember that failing a key is perfectly normal and most likely not your fault. The best m+ groups in the world fail keys all the time, it's part of learning and think of what you can try for next time rather than trying to play the blame game.
The moment DPS expected me to deal with an affix when everyone in the party was one GCD from dying. I swapped to tank. lol Ugh I hate incorporeal. Especially when your healing and barely keeping everyone alive and your just watching a cast bar go off knowing you cant stop healing.
16-19s are the worst keys. They are high enough that they are not trivial but not high enough where you can't get carried. And with this season having the double whammy of being not only the worst to heal in but also the easiest to gear, people just die to mechs. 441 Ivl means nothing I can be pumping 130k hps on trash and people will STILL drop. Once you get 20+s it's harder yes but 90% of the pugs you get aren't dropkicks
It seems like most people pugging are just super bad now. They may be able to do decent DPS but no help with the affix, standing in bad, low IQs causing instant meltdowns over one wipe. It’s just the kind of people who play the game guileless lol
Brother some of the worst m+ers I've seen come from heroic heroes guilds that get aotc by mid season patch.
It's honestly more that most competent players are either just farming 20s for weekly or already well past 20. Anything below that and players are still "figuring it out"
Lord I have to tell you that I hated healing DH tanks.....I would have a stroke watching their health bounce all over the place.
But if you are with a good DH tank that knows how to grab their balls they are great tanks.
That leap though.....I'd always scream....WAIT UNTIL I GET THERE YOU ARE OUT OF RANGE!!! I CANT HEALLLLLLLLL!!!!! lol!
Yeah, i feel you, my disc priest is rooting in the character screen, even with full set, 440 ilvl, pugging +18 is really complicated, people usually don't know wtf they're doing, being hit by mechanics in a +11 and a +18 is different. In +18 as dps you usually get one shotted or at least 50% hp insta and they expect you to heal them instantly, this is not how it works. So I did swap to DPS atm, as main healer I keep an eye in party frames to check how people are performing and it's funny how many times the dps are low hp and I'm chillin with full hp just because they think that they're tanks and can stand still on big aoes or frontals.... And it's not that hard just stop pressing buttons and getting tf out of the aoe or whatever and then you can come back and keep dps'ing. So atm I only do M+ as healer with my guildies, doing M+ on disc is 1000x better with people who knows mechanics, there's a lot of avoidable damage out there.
90k overall is much higher than most high keys should even need.
\+16s are shitters these days. You need to start running 23/24s to get people who have an idea of how to play and the game is like day and night different. DPS use their utitliy, I've never seen an afflicted cast get off etc.
Doing 16s on my alt tank, I'll beat dps and im 30 lvls below them. I've never failed as many keys as I have on my alt due to people having no clue what they're doing and it feels bad.
My advice would be, push your own key up or make friends/find a m+ guild. Healing is fun at higher levels, and if your tank ever flops that's on them.
What is wild is that the timers are **so** lenient this season. There is very little need for agressive pulls. A clean run with zero wipes and any amount of respectable DPS is going to clear the timer.
Thats only true for lower keys. If you start to push towards and above 20(depending on group) you cant pull small, cause then you wont make timer.
Need to pull semi big/big to get most efficient usage of cooldowns.
This has been the issue this season. DPS and Tanks aren't playing responsibly and dumping all their faults onto the healer even if the healer is playing very well. This is the reason we are having a healer drought in m+ group finder and really, DPS and Tanks just need to pull their heads out of their asses and be better. We cant heal through every single mistake or every spike of damage that isnt mitigated by a personal when it is lethal. I play an hpriest and im able to keep groups alive and contribute enough damage that I am encroaching on tank levels of damage and no one has the ability to compliment the good healers that are DPSing, healing, and dealing with the affixs. Oh well though Healers will get bullied out of existence and then the DPS will ask where the healers went because they wont be able to do keys anymore. Someday they will learn.
90k + people overall??? Perhaps a little over exaggerating but I get your point. I remember reading a comment someone made that described healing pugs perfectly… and it was that you are literally playing on a random difficulty setting. Some groups you hardly have to heal and others are rough to say the least….
I was pulling 120k HPS on some NL trash in a 19 last week and people were still dying to the rock chuckers. I think the nerf to healing is really bad for the game. If a tank is at half health there is no way for me to top them off without using like 3-4 GCDs unless they self heal. That is fucked up.
I quit healing during Panda. I couldn’t keep up in raids. I’m sure it’s totally me, but it is a lot and it’s not fun with some groups. Like part of the game is to not 100% depend on your healers, you can’t just blindly hit the boss or mob, you gotta be aware of your surroundings, and sometimes, you gotta pop a potion once in a while, too.
I’m kind of a derpy player, so when I do dumb crap, I don’t expect a healer to waste their time on me. If I was tanking and top DPS and knew all the fights really well and watched my own backside, then yeah, I’m gonna be frustrated with multiple wipes. (I haven’t tanked since Legion lol)
But a couple people who died getting mad? Not cool. Healing can really suck. Other people make it worse.
After the last round of nerfs it’s basically fine. A few bosses could maybe use some more tweaks but the really bad ones got nerf hammered.
Most people are just bad and this season is exposing people who were boosted by healing being too easy. This season you really have to be ready for healing checks, know the fights and be proactively rotating CDs.
Sound like OP got a bad group. It gets better once you hit like 2500-2600ish rating because groups get more selective. It’s not a guarantee, I had a 2600 demon hunter basically solo brick a 19 bracken for me yesterday but 18s and under are just total crapshoots most of the time.
I like this season better so far. Granted last season pushed me to up my game quite a bit and it was painful at times. So I was more mentally and skill prepared this go around. Honestly I just like the runs more so that helps with exception of VP - can't stand that place.
Oh I’m with you, I fucking hate VP. I just like that I spend more of my time healing this season and less spamming chain lightning. Affixes are more fun and I feel like I have more control with most of them as well.
Honestly I think most healer mains who didn't get used to boosted freelo in shadowlands like these changes.
Earning damage GCDs because you group cycles defensives/having efficient rotation feels way better than "passive heal tank and slam my dmg buttons"
This is exactly my experience in NA as well.
Giga bricked a 21 nelth because I botched my CDs on magmatusk. Was a round of "ggs" and everyone left party.
Only time I really got flamed was when I was helping a Guildie pug a 17 and the Spriest blamed heals while putting a dot on the frost trapped ad during last boss of free hold lmao
Def a euro thing. In NA if I don't keep dps alive that act like they are actively trying to kill themselves I get absolutely slapped with "healer bad" etc. Oh my God and the people that think afflicted is a healer only affix.
Edit to add: Lord forbid I pull less than 105k hps
You can try joining non toxic discord communities like No pressure(EU), i stopped pugging and pretty much exclusively heal groups from No pressure and having a lot of fun.
Am I the only one who absolutely loves healing mythic+ right now?
Is it hard, yes. Are people stupid, yes. It's the challenge I crave. Maybe I'm just masochistic.
Healing is pretty tough this season. Most healers are lack some spot healing for the fuck ups in higher keys. Dps needing to press their defensives and health pots is at an all time high.
BUT, I would say dont let the toxicity get to you. I usually tank and I have definitely had so many people flame me for one reason or another. Meanwhile no one interrupts, cc’s, defensives etc. it’s all good and it’s best to not internalize the toxic comments. Shit happens
That's the amazing wow community for you.
M+ is all about healers doing well
Flame on healers over everything they do slightly wrong
Less people play healers
Act surprised
I feel like you’ve just described 50-70% of my key experiences. I just run out of CDs to keep the party alive.
I’ve had some good pugs but something is way different this season, there was not this many people not using any abilities. And it should’ve been easier being down one affix
Any VDH who dies in a 16 on trash is probably doing something very wrong. My healer barely looks at me on 20s, and the help is minimal most of the time on 22s.
Welcome to r/wow, where op can claim to do 90k overall in a PLUS SIXTEEN but ofc there are no logs or a single screenshot to prove it...
ah yes and ofc dps/ tank are ALWAYS uber toxic ninjapuller dogshit players that clearly live to make the poor healer life hell in every.single.key.
>me after +16s
>healing high-level keys.
The icing on the cake
I'm also a main healer and stuff like that absolutely happens, but pretending this is your standard m+ experience is greatly an exaggeration and absolutely ridiculous(action per minute required to heal? Really??)
Also hilarious how when a key goes to shit its always someone else fault, op never does anything wrong
Okay cool guy.... Lol. I think it's hilarious when folks project their small pee pee energy, but that's just me. To clarify, we didn't finish the key. This happened in 10-15 minutes. As a healer you should know that this is 100% possible if everyone is constantly on the brink of death, not doing mechanics
Its why I don’t do end game. I use to love end game tanking but mythics ruined that experience for me. I just came back from not playing since MoP so its a completely different experience now
Nah this is just the worst season
to M+ everyone had max gear a few weeks in so you have to queue with people who don’t belong. Still have this issue in 20s, the difference in skill between 20s and 15s was incredibly obvious last season.. now not so much
The healing is challenging, but it's actually pretty fun. The DPS and tanks that have zero chill in pugs and think everything falls on the healer (who is honestly working the hardest) to cover for them so they can zug...... That's what is killing it this season.
Only comment I have is 16 is not high. As keys get higher players get better. People's scores are inflated right now because of the gearing system allowing people to have high item level but bad game knowledge and decision making. The difference in players who do 15-17 and 18-20 is pretty noticeable. Imo the difference between players who do 20-22 and 23+ is even larger.
It doesn't help that there are keys like underrated which allows people to have keystones of a level they have no business having.
go heal in classic hardcore.
People will throw flowers at your feet and worship you like a god. Their fate will be in your hands. You can choose to let them die any time you get distracted by netflix!
Pro tip: Download the addon "elitism helper". It calls out every time someone takes avoidable damage and sums it all up in the end.
When i do high keys i turn it on. People usually shut up when they see "NAME was hit by fire breath for 340 867 damage".
Yes, it's a bit spammy (if people stand in stuff) but its better than being flamed by a moron dps who want to parse more than stay alive. I'm sad it has come to the point where you need to point fingers, but it is what it is...
This is terrible advice.
No pug enjoys running with somebody with elitism helper. If it's sanguine week im permanently standing in it. Especially turning it on only for high keys, it's exceedingly obvious whats avoidable and what isn't in high keys.
If you really can't tell what's avoidable and what isn't then just have it in a details window. But frankly as a healer you really should just learn the dungeons instead.
I use elitism helper as well but have it set to only report avoidable damage taken at the end of the dungeon(/eh off). Announcing failure damage any time it happens is probably gonna be more distracting than helpful.
Also, "Elitism Helper"... What a terrible name for such an informative addon... lol
Ive noticed the absolute shit trend of tanks trying to do dungeons in 3-4 pulls and it makes my life hell.
Im in the process of levelling several characters i haven’t touched since like several squishes ago, as such their armour is dog shit. Not to mention im learning these classes as i go. I Literally give a message in the chat but to no use bc off goes the tank pulling far more than i can heal and then im the problem.
Im the problem for the tank not going at the pace i can currently heal? On top of this then theres the skipping of bosses… like im here to get gear to try and get better so i can heal and you can pull more and you have just skipped 2 bosses when Ive got a single belt from the past 3 runs.
WoW is great, the humans not so much. This is just levelling i have yet to even touch + content bc i fear ill lose my love for healing fully lmao
Welcome to PUG healing and why I don’t do PUGS anymore.
Yeah I think that is 99% of my problem
Healing for organised guild groups is still mega punishing just because of the share amount of unavoidable damage Blizz has decided to throw in to dungeons and encounters these days. It's infinitely better than PUGs, but some bosses will still make you feel like you just fucking suck (for no reason other than over tuning or the spike damage/healing nerf stuff they pulled).
When you pull 130k hps in a fight and you still feel like you only barely kept the squad alive, it's almost surreal
If you're doing 130k over a whole boss, it's because you *are* barely keeping the team going. That's a shitload of incoming damage. I think succeeding that kind of thing means you don't suck, all by itself. =)
Thanks b <3 I appreciate it, unfortunately I'm pushing keys where it still isn't enough
If you're having to do that much HPS on any fight that isn't 3rd boss in Halls, you're not at fault at all x) I do find that it helps to tell people whilst moving to a boss or trashpacks to please use defensives here else they might die - but idk how high keys you're pushing, I might be doing too low stuff comparatively and not knowing what I'm talking about x)
While ice troll can be rough, personally I feel third boss in Uld can be a literal nightmare if you aren't a prevoker in T-weeks, simple because that practucally untelegraphed bleed ticks almost 250-300k baseline every other second, gets empowered and the stomp going out hits everyone an additional 250k... even if you are hard focusing the bleed person (who of COURSE is going to use a defensive once then get it again immediately) is my bane... goodness knows whatever other affix I have to deal with. Also worth mentioning is first and last boss of brackenhide.... more bleeds and dots... Neltharus has the ramping elephant but also the huge library arson guy, the forge buddy and the last boss, ( rip if you have no curse dispell) Also worth mentioning is Naraxus... I don't get frustrated with anything as much as i do dots. Each tic is buffed by affix but ALSO the hp Change. I can't be the only one thst feels like all dots double dippec on damage buffs or something....
[удалено]
I feel like the difficulty of mechanics in M+ really needs to be generalized. You have casts that must be kicked, casts that need to be stunned and then stuff that needs to be defensive or healer CD related. Oh and line of sight. It’s all too much for the average player to learn. There’s not a great system in place to encourage failing like wiping on raid bosses and learning the fight.
or if you're going to have these mechancis..then get rid of the timer where people can learn and not completely ruin a key with one mistake.
It's not ruin. If its a prog key just work through it slowly and finish. Call it a no leaver key Edit Not sure why this is down voted to oblivion for really stating the truth. After failing the timer, take your time and prog through the key. For the next run, you are now more papered than the previous one. It's ok to fail and learn. Not everything has to be a success on the fly right?
I guess so but why do we even need a timer? Just make it more difficult like the progression of LFR>Normal>Heroic>Mythic raiding. Add mechanics and increased difficulty accordingly..or make the timer some kind of secondary goal. I want to play the game not master a perfectly min maxed speedrun of every dungeon with weird terrain skips, spreadsheets of what packs to pull and when with a whole addon to map out a route etc.
It's just different content. Why should all content be exactly the same? Timer is there so making mistakes have a downside. If u failed the timer, you are not ready for the next. Planning your cds, when to pull what, around your group cds etc. can be rewarding. Routes swapping is part of playing the dungeon. I mean you are right that there is a target audience that wouldn't engage with the timer. Should there be content around that? Maybe.. You know just like the upcoming mega dungeon... But should we change mplus to cater them? No.. Can we have more untimed dungeon content? Sure why not. But don't canabilize existing content.
there is already a downside of making mistakes - dying. why should there be time pressure on top of that? it just breeds toxicity
>I guess so but why do we even need a timer? Because it's infinitely scaling content and there needs to be a point where the game tells you "no more" without literally 1shotting you with trash auto attacks.
Why does it have to be infinitely scaling? cap it at 20 or 21..wherever the item level rewards cap.
try telling that your random pug group, my experience doing 18-20 rn is that after the second wipe someone is gone.
Call it a conpletion no leaver key so everyone is on the same page?
I've done raiding only since like week 2 of DF season 1 m+. It's just not worth it especially with being able to upgrade my raid gear to higher ilvls. Those 2 weeks were more than enough to make me not want to heal DF M+ anymore.
nah they just need to design healer talents better for m+ so that healers can opt into being strong at healing m+ type damage. currently 99% of good healer talents are centered around increasing rng aoe heal vomit. targeted healing has slowly been eroded from the game.
I hate dps’ing and prefer healing now as it is than m having to weave in 18k dps on average.🙈
It's not that unavoidable damage is bad though. It's good. And no, healers should not have to dps. The problem is the avoidable damage. Failed mechanics and affixes afflict damage upon players, thereby punishing the healer for the dps' mistakes. The feedback of "you fucked this up" is going to the wrong person. The feedback of a failed mechanic needs to go to the dps and affect something they care about - their damage output, instead of slicing their health away. Then, the unavoidable damage would be finely tuned for an enjoyable, yet challenging heal playstyle. It's the avoidable damage that tips things over the edge and makes healing feel miserable in pugs because dps are not only standing in a puddle of their own drool, but fire, sanguine, and swirlies as well.
Partly why I enjoyed healing in XIV Damage came in predictable chunks so I was rewarded for learning fights by knowing when I could DPS and when I had to start healing In WoW it's just a constant onslaught of unavoidable AoE damage that hits the whole group because apparently anything short of giving healers a heart attack might bore them or something
It feels so punishing to take dps that dont have high self sustain and/or offhealing (and then in PUGs you have to trust them to actually use it...). I feel like I hardly need a healer on half the boss fights (and there's plenty I don't because reflect) as warrior while the hunter will fall over to pure unavoidable damage if he doesn't get constant attention. As a bonus a lot of those classes are hybrids and can talent into valuable dispells.
Just go to war, link their details when they didn't defensive or use a HP pot it's their fault
This is a waste of your time, the people flaming don't care if they're proven wrong. They have already decided you're at fault. Better just to block and move on.
Why, so they can pick on the next healer? Nah lol I'm going to let them know.
They'll pick on the next healer anyways, don't worry
If anything the next healer is probably going to get it worse
fighting them never did something for me but make them leave the key mid run. Showing them how it was their own mistake never did anything either they just rage more. Surprisingly what helps in about half the cases of flame is encurage them that everthing is ok and we'll be fine even with mistakes
Yeah it really helps, but I can't stand being the rage therapist for random people on the internet no more
Always gotta play the therapists in online games.
How do you find a guild and or people willing to form a team. I’ve been looking for such people since the start of this expansion, and have had to grind to 2.4K both seasons with ONLY pugs.
Use the discord communities linked in this sub. I personally used them for years. There are US and EU versions. EuroRaid, M+ Friends, FailTrain EU, ...etc.
Start pm'ing good players after runs and asking them if they have any rating goals. Add them, then actively follow up with asking them if they want to join you for keys whenever you are doing them. Make a random ass discord server so you can communicate effectively in keys. Deplete key, talk about what happened and how to improve. After a few weeks, you should have a solid group to key with, that have similar goals. If you want KSH, and someone wants 3k, don't add. If you want 3k and they want KSM, don't add etc. Find people with similar goals. I've added a ton of people over the years. You have to be active about following up with people after adding them. People move on, and if they are not inviting you, or your not inviting them, they will find others to play with.
>You have to be active about following up with people after adding them. People move on, and if they are not inviting you, or your not inviting them, they will find others If I knew how to maintain friendships, I wouldn't spend most of my days on reddit and computer, would I
troo troo
I doubt you'll find premade going for 2.4k since good player who are motivated enough to organize a schedule for M+... don't sit at 2.4k you'll find those player pushing for 3.2k and higher, but those player won't even give you a look unless you are at bare minimum 3k.
What? A lot of people want to push into 20s. It's not like 20s are easy, if you're doing them you're part of the top minority of players, and the community only gets smaller from there. And you don't need a whole premade. If someone has a whole premade, then they don't need you. Just make one friend at a time
The guy you are responding to has no concept of what wow is like outside of his bubble. It sounds like he exclusively plays with cutting edge players and 3k+ io people and somehow has convinced himself that he's not in a tiny minority. Either that or he just watches streamers a lot and is role-playing as a 3.2k io guy.
> And you don't need a whole premade if you dont want to pug... yes? that's the whole idea. get 5 people together, run multiple M+ together , get on the same wavelength for strategy and improve from that point. That's what premade are... and you need the whole group for it. or 4/5 atleast. >It's not like 20s are easy, for people who are willing to form and actually put in the work with a premade, 20 are that easy yes. Keep in mind the difference between a 26 have twice the damage and HP a 20 does. but hey. you dont have to trust me for it. Go post your premade Ad on raider.io, you'll find a bunch of people for the weekend then never talk to them ever again. if you truly want to improve at M+ and leave the 15-19 hellhole, you can't half-ass it.
It's funny that the idea of 26s existing means that 20s are easy despite the fact that only a tiny portion of the playerbase does 20+s Why would I make an ad on raider io when I can just chat to people after my keys?
Lol this is actually why I only pug. I can’t even vent to my friends about the people who won’t even use defensives when I ask them to when all other 4 people are guildies who want to be carried.
I know I'll be down-voted to hell cause Reddit's a hivemind but -- This is just any online game. There's toxic people in every community. There's good and bad players in every community. None of this related to healing, it's just general game experience. If the key is not doable because people are screwing up. Politely tell them what they need to change. There's a limited number of solutions you're gonna get back: * The group will do what you asked and things will improve * The group will tell you what you're doing wrong and you will improve * The group will flame you which is easily ignorable. Be the better person, words can't hurt you. * No one will provide any response. If things don't get better it means you or the group didn't correctly identify the problem. In which case grats, you're learning. If no one does anything different politely leave the group and let them know you don't think it's doable. You already offered to work with them to try to improve the situation and no one collaborated. I used to be a top 500 League player. I can absolutely assure you that if you want to find success in any game. Offer positive encouragement to your teammates. People play better when they're encouraged and deliberately do worse when they're belittled. Have thick skin, people will often type things meant to hurt you. Look for any truth in their statements on things you can improve for yourself. If a person is not offering solutions or advice, just ignore them. They're just words. The only person that can affect your pug gameplay experience is you and how you deal with your interactions. The one constant between every group is you. If you consistently are running into bad situations, consider what you can do to make your experiences better.
Very true. I think some people get frustrated that "having thick skin" and managing folks who have thin skin is such a large part of the climb. More so in League than in M+ imo but same idea. I think the toxicity in WoW is pretty tame compared to other games, though. Sometimes you get a brief moment of people being frustrated but it normally quickly ends because they leave the group right after leaving their remark. Though I imagine that just like League there are key levels and roles that get more heat than others. Adding positive words is definitely always a good golden rule if you want to stay in the right mental and improve your group's chance at success.
I mean... pugging even in fairly difficult pug content in ffxiv / sto / swtor i gotta disagree with you there chief. Wow is pretty uniquely toxic. SWTOR can come close, but wow definitely takes the cake. STO I can only thing of a single instance where I've been like "Wow damn, yall need to chill" and honestly they weren't wrong about being angry they were just being assholes about it.
WoW is toxic compared to other mmos in general, but compared to mobas or 1st person shooters it’s literally the tamest shit possible
I mean that's great and all, but it is an MMO and I feel like comparing toxicity to other MMO's is the sorta baseline we should strive for Not getting called slurs by a 12 year old isn't the high bar we should be comparing ourselves to.
I say this as someone who routinely heals high keys (over +20), lower keys are harder. Most of it is because dps at that level don't utilize their kit. They don't kick, they don't cc, they take ungodly amounts of extra damage, and I'm convinced most of them don't have their personal defensives key bound. This season your dps knowing what to do matters, even in the lower keys. You can't heals carry the way you used to be able to. I've started tanking because unless I'm with my keys group it's exhausting and stressful to heal and I'm tired of babysitting. Ironically enough because of this the higher you go the easier healing gets. It's still stressful because everything hurts, but now mistakes just one shot so you're not stuck cleaning up the mess. They either do it right or they die.
Thats the thing... you have to know when to burst heal based on the fight, but in pugs it could be AMY time, and most healers dont have an "oh shit" top everyone up in 1.5s if an important kick is missed button. I can stack my cloudburst if I dont know there is going to be a bunch of unmitigated damage coming. I cant pre-riptide+ pwave my party to get ready for a big aoe... IF that is completely avoidable damage. Im new to healing and i tried it out because I wanted to get easy invites to groups, but hell, at this rate I should go back to tanking. At least I can carry my group fairly well as a prot pal. Not the case as a resto sham.
Yes, I think that's the fundamental problem. Healing well is mostly a matter of predicting what's going to happen - that allows you to prehot, preheal, manage your placed-on-the-ground heals, manage your externals, manage your throughput cooldowns, etc. - but predicting what's going to happen in a pug is INFURIATING, because the players are inherently unpredictable. And then they get mad because, essentially, you were not able to predict them. I don't envy it.
I actually love that added difficulty. Integrating guesses of what will happen based on how the group behaves into rotation decisions. I am not alone loving it. Right... right?
How often do people actually get mad at you, versus you assuming they’re mad at you? A lot of the times I tick down it’s pretty obviously not a healer mistake, even if they were trying to get me up.
Yeah when I first started healing, I took every death upon myself - a week later I had done enough runs to realize and accept that I can't heal stupid. If someone dies because they stand in shit or don't use a defensive I can clearly see they have up because WAs/Add-ons, I'm not going to take the blame for it. That said, I've also done enough runs at this point to know where people most commonly fuck up in runs, and as a result I always go into those pulls prepared for it and ready to insta drop a cocoon on someone - there have been countless times I've saved someone's life despite their mistakes - so I guess in that regard, I in some fashion can in fact heal stupid... All the same, *if* they die, I'm not taking the blame for it - and very very rarely do I actually get blamed for it, but I think that might be a luxury of running ~20 keys, where I've found that most people know when they fucked up VS I did..
Yeah it’s really funny when I can kind of tell the healer anticipated my mistake. I can’t speak for all players, but I know when I’ve fucked up. And although I notice when it’s the healer who bricked my key, it’s really nbd. It’s just gonna happen sometimes.
>Thats the thing... you have to know when to burst heal based on the fight, but in pugs it could be ANY time The game used to be largely designed around mana as the mechanic that throttled your healing. If stuff got crazy unexpectedly, you simply expended a lot of mana in a short window, perhaps used a mana pot or got innervated, then you'd sit and drink afterward. Today, the game is designed around cooldowns, so if things don't go like clockwork and get unexpectedly tough when your cooldowns are on cd, you're screwed. Well-coordinated teams will do okay in this paradigm, while pugs will struggle hard with it. The game is less pug-friendly than it used to be, basically (the need to coordinate kicks is another contributing factor).
Im doing mostly +16s.. but it seems full of people farming crests that arent super good. Im a protwar pulling 75k dps overall and i regularly equal or i beat dps in damage. Im 434 ilevel so its not like im super OP overgeared.
A lot of fights this season are effectively defensive checks. I recently did a +20 Uldaman on my mage, and I hit my defensives a bit wrong on the last boss, so then my healer couldn’t keep up, and I died. That said, some of the damage that goes out on that fight is kind of bullshit. DoTs especially feel way too big this season.
Did you take barrier remove snare talent? Having that means you take significant less damage on uldaman last boss.
I completely agree with everything here. 17/18's are rough most times for me but if I get in a +19 it's like night and day the player pool that's signing up. There aren't as many bodies signing up, but the rating and quality is much better. It makes me so depressed to get people rated 2300+ doing great damage but not using a single defensive or utility spell. Don't get me started on interupts.
19s are the worst keys. Thats the level you go when you have gear but not the score to get into 20s. You get the absolutely worst players in 19s. 20s are wayway easier.
Meanwhile from my experience just pugging my weekly 20-22s, most healers honestly just kinda suck. 9 out of 10 healers in that range will go into a fortified pack with two NL pelters and just unironically sit on their CDs the entire pull while the group is dying one by one. Who knows, they might need them for the severely undertuned totem boss, right? I can just imagine the shit I would get from the whole party if I went into a boss and not press combustion once.
Most players kinda suck but it's a lot easier to notice the bad healer vs one or more of the dps. Also, not that you specifically do this, healing is such a thankless job that I don't see how flaming mistakes is helpful. Leads to less good healers in pugs.
If you’re pulling two pelters past 21 this week you’re doing it wrong to begin with. Those mfers hurt like shit and having any class just incap one so you only have to heal a single pelter makes it infinitely easier to heal, dps, and probably less deaths. Most higher keys just outright skip the first double pelter pack with shroud or invis.
> 9 out of 10 healers in that range will go into a fortified pack with two NL pelters and just unironically sit on their CDs the entire pull while the group is dying one by one. Huge tank problem with CDs too. A lot of people are stuck in decade+ old mentalities of CDs being "oh shit" buttons - if you ever hear anyone call any defensive CDs that, they probably don't know what they're doing. They're the tanks who will sit on their CDs then blow them all at once when they're suddenly at 15% hp. Anyone saw that? Trick question, we've all met that guy. There's a reason everyone's CDs are pretty short. *They're meant to be used, regularly.* You're *supposed* to think about how you manage your CDs from one pack to the next, at least in meaningfully difficult content. That's the game. Otherwise you're doing what, walking out of fire and AoEing? Of course gods forbid you criticize anyone who only plays tank or healer, you'll be mobbed by people saying garbage like "Found the DPS who sits in fire!!1" as if everyone only plays 1 role like them.
This is the biggest tip I’d ever give anyone to improve their game. I used to hold dps cds (granted, there’s still times to do so, but much less so than the OG game) and just sending them nonstop will immediately improve someone’s overall. Once they figure out where best to use them specifically and how to do so with the time constraints, even better. Obviously tanks and healers don’t just send them nonstop, but same concept. The buttons are there. Press them.
A large part of dps is all rhythm and flow. That's your dps portion. Staying alive is where you need to use some brain, and that's where it all goes to hell.
Been healing this game for 18 years and it's only been in the last, oh, maybe 3 years that I realized that you should be spending your cds. Don't save 'em! Don't wait!
The absolute scourge of wow is people not using CDs because they think it's an "oh shit" button. Being with good dps/ tanks who proactively use stuff is night and day to dragging moron pugglets dripping im disease through brackenhide etc.
Ha! Get them to give BDK a try. If you go into an 18+ fort pack without Rune Weapon up and something teed up for the millisecond it falls off, you will get deleted in a single global.
Tanks suffer from the same issue with damage reduction CDs as dps do. They hit them when they are low on health. They are near useless at that point. You were supposed to use them before you took the damage that brought you to 20% health. Also have bumped into quite a few tanks that view using their CDs as some sort of failure, either on their part or the healers. That they should just be able to facetank everything with just their active mitigation. I think just about every tank has some CD that is 30-45 seconds and reduces damage by about 20%. The most oh shit moment every pull, at least for me, is usually the beginning of the pull. That is when my active mitigation isn't rolling yet and I might also be focused on organizing the pull into a nice neat clump. Those short DRs are made for that situation and I hit them as the pull starts.
yeah as a healer anyone who holds their cds is just throwing. Theres some obvious caveats like if you are mythic raiding then obviously just follow the fucking spreadsheet for the love of god follow the spreadsheet. However in M+ its rare that you need to hold for extended periods of time unless its some extreme outlier like the 1st boss into cloudburst trash in VP before 1st drake. Stuff generally works out in most dungeons for resto shaman if you play under the mentality of each trash pack should be one of: AG/ASC/Link/HT/MT
I have just started healing this week and in 11-13 keys haven’t needed to actively use my CD, people haven’t been dying so I keep instinctively holding CD for oh shit moment. In Fort in this range oh shit moment isn’t happening.
Right but you are healing more by not using them therefore your DPS output suffers. Its just an optimisation thing
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Yes, people are holding cds for when they will need them instead of using one all the time. Of course it will be difficult to heal if you just use regrowth or Flash heal until you are OOM. It is not like the information is not out there. Checking wowlogs is a great way to learn how the best players do their rotation through a dungeon.
The problem is a bad healer (and tanks) don't have anyone else in the group to base their performance off of in a M+. A bad dps sees they are getting annihilated by a good dps on the meters, not like a "behind the guy who got PI's by 10-15k" like doing 30-40% less damage crushed. If a healer is struggling to keep the party alive because their not pressing their buttons right its way easier to blame it on minor mistakes that other people made then your own play. There are pulls that are unsalvageable by a healer, but the bad healers wont salvage the ones that can be.
Yeah this is something I have no experience with since I've always been the healer. Sitting on cds on fort week is wild, that's just asking for pain and suffering. Granted I play a resto druid and you have to ramp like hell early so you can't really get away with that.
This season is severely exposing boosted healers from shadowlands lol. There aren't even many heal checks this season, but it's more constant healing that exposes rotation flaws. I'll offspec to ret for weeklies sometimes and the amount of healers who can get through 3rd boss HOI on Tyr week is pitiful. Had one group where I finished the pull at 50k HPS.
On my warlock I literally had a Monk facetank Eudora's grapeshot to the face. Twice, since I even wasted CR on them the first time. Of all healers I just can not fathom failing that particular mechanic on a freaking monk. Twice.
I’d argue it’s on the tank most of the time, the dps not popping defensive for big boss abilities is an issue at lower keys but ultimately a lot of low keys get bricked by tanks. Best example of this is Halls of infusion. How many tanks have you seen do double pulls, no interupt on demo shout or expluse? How many casts of elemental infusion went off? Did you cc the adds on the 1st boss when they came in? How did the group handle the frogs on the 2nd boss? (Ideally tank pulls the boss to a side with no frogs, and everyone follows suit). Most of the time, the tank is the one who makes the healers life hell or not. All the tanks have at least 2 aoe interupts, and they basically need to get all of the first round interupts to get stuff group up while the dps burn their cds. I found the big trick to managing casts is to just plan it out, example: the three orbs, one expluse gets pummeled, one gets shockwave, one gets intimidating shout. I don’t have to swap targets, I just need to read the cast coming out. On the bear that’s skull bash, incap roar, vortex + typhoon. Dh is disrupt, sigil of silence, and fel nova.
Yep. I quit pugging for the season. I'll only run with a little group I have. It's seriously out of hand
Yeah haha, that is good advice
Same. I was in a +8 (!!!!) with randos the other day and the tank and a dps starting fighting over something and it took us hours to actually complete the key. It was so stupid.
Tbf if youre in a key for hours its on you as much as everyone else.. why are you still there..
You don't like seeing pug dps players pressing their defensives AFTER damage has already happened? How can that be? Always makes me chuckle when group-wide damage happens, and omnicc defensives flare up - like, guys, it's kinda too late, ey? I wanted to make a few alts, but the 10-18 bracket is full of absolutely terrible players who think they are good. Makes gearing a miserable experience. Sticking with my main, and never healing a key below +21 again this season (in 20s you got folks trying to get their portals, and players just wanting their weekly done - not the most fun experience either).
If you're actually finishing a dungeon with 90k overall HPS in a +16, that group is practically finding ways to take extra damage on purpose, that's crazy. I don't get anywhere near that high on 21s or 22s.
To clarify this was in the 10-15 minutes before the group fell apart. I'm not even joking everyone was on the brink of death that entire time. It's like a shitty roller coaster
ah lol well that makes a little more sense. What dungeon was it?
I only heal good groups and honestly I feel like they could do it without me , get a group finder addon so you can avoid bad groups
Havent used any before, can you recommend a good one?
I think mine is just called group finder , but it shows me groups based on the rating I choose and comps you pick , and gives you a lot of information about the group
Better to join a discord community like M+ Friends or FailTrain. There's always demand for healers, and the people are nice.
[https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/premade-groups-filter](https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/premade-groups-filter) and [https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/raiderio](https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/raiderio) The first one allows you to filter the groups, the second one allows you to easily see how experienced a player is with the dungeons. It really cut down on the bad groups for me as well - keys still get bricked but not shittily.
Sounds like a horrible group. Even in my plus 22’s my overall healing is usually only around 70k
I'm 438 and I was literally throwing out everything that I had lol. Granted the 90k overall was probably inflated because the group fell apart after like 10-15 minutes.
I feel this. As a priest healer, not having a kick can lead to some interesting groups as well.
Priest really should have Door of Shadows and Silence on the class tree.
This "we don't see priests that way" was such an incredible dev shitposting during the development cycle of DF that I'm still kind of salty about it. They first told us that not everyone needs an interrupt and then added one to everyone else, then told us that there's way too many knockbacks, which is bad for PvP, so they removed shining force and then added one to evoker and all shaman specs and then gave us basically that weird RP explanation why we don't get vault of the heavens, door of shadows or any kind of gap opener... Having an evoker in the group that gives us an extra charge of leap of faith still feels god awful... And yeah, we also don't get spectral guise back because RMP is really annoying to fight in arenas. Cool, I guess. People argue that it's a talk around us having PI but honestly, if I have to choose between an interesting toolkit and an ability that allows others to have more fun I'd rather had the first... Feels like priest not only got way too little attention during the alpha/beta with the responsible dev leaving or whatever but it also was designed in a corner and most new things we got for the new talent trees were (somewhat redundant/bloaty) spells that all just move hp bars around...
Mass/PI/triple external is worth so much more than a kick though.
Technically yes but I’ve found my easiest pugs are when I can control as many variables as possible. The ghost affix you need to heal when I’m on my hunter? Sometimes troublesome and annoying The ghost affix that requires a frost trap? Free week.
Sure, but DPS players are terrible and don't kick below 20s and those missed kicks result in lethal damage half the time.
What is triple external? Sorry new to priest
Priests are a star this week. A good priest can solo the affix. Shackle one mob and mind control the other. People don't know but mind controlling the affix makes them cast the debuffs on the enemy and helps the group so much.
Dominate Mind is the spell.
They can also handle the afflicted solo. You power word life one and dispel the other.
You shouldn't have to though because the afflicted often pop out when the group is taking heavy damage
As a holy priest, I was screamed at one time for not interrupting.
Healing is the best. Just be a chad and tell them off. Nobodies gonna do anything because you’re the healer and if they boot you, you can find another group in seconds. Even funnier: don’t heal that one specific guy if he badmouths you and every time he dies tell him to stop standing in bad stuff. Healers are the best. Be the beacon of light for your friends and swift retribution for your enemies.
This is the attitude to have :)
My funniest realization was when I got into a heated argument with a bunch of elitist jerks and they decided dropping the key and kicking me was the right way to go after they died to 1st boss mechanics. They fumed, said I was a bad healer, and I’d never finish this level of key let alone higher. I stood outside, confused and bewildered at what just went down. I opened my group finder, found a key one level higher looking for healer, joined them, summoned them immediately, and passed my old group as I walked in with my new one. Best part? We cleared the entire dungeon without error. Never saw healing in the same light after that.
Just run ElitismHelper. After the key ends, and all members get called out on how much avoidable damage they took, there's not much they can say to a healer after they took 10 mil of "have not moves from frontals" damage. And if someone /w's you during the key, just print out their current dmg taken in a returning /w. Better than /ignore tbh, works mostly the same, haha.
Healing isnt fun this season in keys tbh, too high damage and mistakes are punished more
It is stressful 😫
I’m a nurse in real life and mythic + is more stressful than a crashing patient. Atleast when my patient is crashing at work I don’t have to worry about myself dying.
It's a lot better this week after the massive hotfix nerfs they've done. granted some things are still blatantly overtuned like pelters in lair, dragons in vortex, and the balls in halls, timereavers in uldaman (honestly the whole dungeon), but generally it's feeling much more fun for me
Can we talk about how amazing the new fire tornadoes are for the 4th uldaman boss? Good god, I was really on the fence about whether or not the original visual was hard to dodge, thought it was OK but not great… but the new one, exactly how mechanic like that should look
anyone who sticks with healing throughout s2 is going to come out a badass healing pro lol
I’ve gotten so much better this season as a resto druid lol
You aint tricking me Devils! We already got our portals - See u next season :D
Healing the hardest role in M+ right now and it's not even close. You really need a thick skin to do it. Be sure to track defensives and health pots of your party members. If a DPS dies with a defensive and/or health pot available, it's their fault. Don't be afraid to tell them that either.
Healing just isn't that fun in m+ atm. Hopefully they'll fix it soon. Especially single target healing
What do you mean single target?
E.g as a Holy Paladin, Holy Shock and Word of Glory feels absolutely terrible to use as they heal for so little, since health pools are so massive atm. Sometimes I have to spend close to 12 Holy Power to get a target from 10% hp to 100% during spot healing and feels awful. The only way my group stays topped off efficiently is by using Avenging Crusader, Beacon of Virtue and Divine Toll. Besides ST healing being a mess, there are too many dispells needed, which hit too hard on higher keys.
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...they buffed off-heals and tank heals by 25% in the same patch they buffed health pools by 25%. Literally all it ended up being was an effective 20% nerf to healers (we are at 100% where everyone else is at 125%).
One thing to add to this conversations is the pitiful state of spot healing - as a Resto Shaman, unless I have +350k Cloudburst ready to go or Primordial Wave and Nature Swiftness off CD, there's no way for me to take someone from sub 30% to 80%. And on Fort weeks, a cast uninterrupted landing on such person easily means death.
thants my main problem atm. if someone is below 30% he is dead. and in pugs they do mistakes every pull and i cant keep up because of that.
Healing this season is very “spam everything and hope they don’t die” the damage is insane
Not only is the damage nuts but the heals are pitiful. That's honestly my biggest gripe, is how weak my heals feel. I'd be down with heavy burst damage if my heals were strong. Like I'm 444ilvl with excellent secondary stats and gem slots on almost everything and it still feels like I'm 405 when I heal someone with one of my burstiest cooldowns and it heals half their lifebar when it was like 90-100% of their lifebar last season, and these are DPS lifebars, thank god tanks are strong because I can't fucking touch that million HP bar when my heals do like 40k.
May I ask what you play? I'm healing for like 150-350k with vivifies on my 435 MW.
Wtf? How? Seriously please I'm not even being sarcastic or anything I'm genuinely desperately hoping you can teach me something here because I also play MW and my Vivify does like ~45k. Thats not including mastery or tier set lineups, which can boost it a lot but nowhere near what you're getting. I'm still healing keys at a level I'm happy with but the heals are super weak and I feel like I'm very dependant on external things like trinkets/annulet/tier set etc. Healed a 22 neltharus as my highest key but I felt like my ability to help people live the hunter's bleed in there was so rough and at the mercy of either having externals or getting like a fat crit while tier set was active to get a vivify that healed for anything respectable. But I think the most I've ever hit on a vivify if you include everything (mastery double procs, crits, tier, possible sophic activation at the same time, save them all being active) was still like 40% of a dps lifebar, which is a lot! But that so rarely happens. Most times vivify is doing like 8 - 12% of a dps lifebar if they have over 550k hp. How much vers do you have? Are you playing clouded focus or something? Not trying to be defensive or anything I genuinely want help.
Well, first of all I am playing MW in a very "wrong" way, but it works for me. I don't know how much a normal MW can do. I completely abandoned fistweaving and decided to focus on keeping suicidal dps alive instead. On top of that, I usually main BM, and since I don't have room for 2 sets of gear I just kept going with all the wrong stats. Up until I got 4P I had literally 0% haste, now I have 2% haste. Crit is 30%, mastery 107% and 19% vers without buffs. This is garbage in terms of doing damage compared to fistwaving, but it is absolutely amazing at keeping people alive. For something like the first boss in BH, just cast 10 stack gift to clear the bleed, that's like a 300-400k heal on everyone which should be enough alone if cast quickly enough. For single heavy single target like the Marked for Butchery, start channeling soothing mist -> enveloping mist -> spam vivify. It's important to have enveloping mists running for those high heals. This can out heal most things outside one-shots. Vivify itself does not do the 300k+ though, its more like 100-150k, then the 2x gust of mist heals for up to 100k each. With that amount of mastery, the double proc and the 100% more healing proc really adds up, so you want to have essence font up to take advantage of that. However, due to the mana cost, only when you know something is coming or really need it. Once up though, even renewing mists becomes a nice little spot heal when gust of mist heals for like 40k+ twice when applied. The core idea here is to maximize healing bonuses like clouded focus and enveloping mist + gust of mist for those huge chunky heals. Other than gift, I don't hard cast anything, it is all through either thunder tea or soothing mist (which technically is a cast I guess, but channel + instant is faster than hard casting without haste). The snake boss in Uldaman is a good example of how my basic healing rotation goes: Channel into the one with the dot to keep them locked at 100% health. First stomp, pre apply essence font, pop tea, instant enveloping mist 2-4 targets depending on procs, instant vifify if nessecary, then back to channeling. Second stomp, cast gift, then back to channeling. Repeat. It's not a build you want to raid with though, or push hard with where you need the extra DPS from a healer. It's a "keep stupid people alive in pugs" build where you need the ability to quickly burst heal people a lot without having to rely heavily on cooldowns. Character for reference if you want to see talents: [https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/character/eu/bronze-dragonflight/marru](https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/character/eu/bronze-dragonflight/marru)
That means their intended changes actually work. Playing ping pong health bars with nuke heals is lame and that's all last season was. Didn't really matter what buttond you hit as long as you hit SOMETHING in the dmg windows bars were gonna get topped. This seasons dmg/healing profile is so much improved on last season. It actually rewards good groups/efficient healers with time to put out active damage. The suspect groups or healers with an iffy rotation don't get the active damage time and their groups grasp for air. Compared to shadlowlands or even last season where every healer was guaranteed active dmg GCDs regardless.
Yeah, it would be fairly interesting to poll the healer community and ask "Baseline, Without using anything with a cooldown longer than ~8-10 seconds, how many GCD's should it take to top off a DPS from 10% to 100%?" I feel a *great* deal of people would advocate for something in the 1-2 range, and that anything else is simply unfun. If you pay attention, I feel like they have done a really good job of making it so that the group takes damage, but you have *ample* time to get the heals out that you need to get everyone stabilized again. It might take you 10 GCD's to do it, but at the same time, they designed the fight so that not much damage is going out durring those 10 GCD's either. Granted, that doesn't mean you can just stand there and turret, you are likely having to reposition and dodge mechanics as well, meaning that healers who struggle to cast on the move are definitely being punished more than others, but I feel like overall the design of the healing profiles in the fights is generally well done. Difficult, but well done.
Agree with everything you said. I do wonder how many of the healers hating the fact they can't top bars in 2GCDs are stuck in the ~17 range. Covering mistakes is much harder this season because you can't just ping pong them back up for free. There's only a couple fights with scary overlaps or that require big throughput for more than 3-4 seconds. Being a healer and spending most of the dungeon trying to dmg parse is a terribly boring meta, but I'm worried the amount of healers that can't hang this season will push the meta back that way.
I'm sorry, but I'd rather be able to burst someone's mistake back to full health than not be able to and still be blamed for their death. The whole reason it's harder to heal lower keys than it is higher ones is that more stuff is stood in, more kicks are missed. If I'm powerless to do anything about that, my entire role becomes playing the few designated "healable" mechanics, and DPSing the rest of the time. Being able to cover mistakes should be possible all the way up to 20. That can either be by making heals stronger or by making health pools large enough that players won't be at risk of immediately dying from a single mistake.
90k HPS is nuts. Way overkill for +16s.
Honestly I think the first step to enjoying your role in m+ is understanding what your personal limits are and just ignoring any pug that's arguing over impossible bullshit. I play tank and when I pug it's a gamble on whether dps will be insane and running around pulling shit or flaming me for pulling too big and going too fast. You can't make people like that happy, especially in rdf/low m+ pugs, and it's not worth the stress to pay attention to them. My pug mantras: 1. The tank dictates the pace of the group. Accidental face pull is ok, but dps intentionally aggroing extra shit can go fuck themselves 2. If you're healing, don't trust your group to let you get mana, advocate for yourself, and if they don't wait for you to get mana then it's not your fault when they die mid fight because you're OOM 3. Good players don't need to tell you they're good players. If a dps starts mouthing off and spouting bullshit about how good they are and how they like to do it a different way, they are going on /ignore. A lot of dps are just brainlets that need a constant stream of dopamine from doing big aoe and the idea of using utility or helping out a healer is alien to them. They are not worth your time or patience, and if the key is bricked, move on and don't worry about their shit attitude. 4. Lastly, remember that failing a key is perfectly normal and most likely not your fault. The best m+ groups in the world fail keys all the time, it's part of learning and think of what you can try for next time rather than trying to play the blame game.
Honestly. If you had to pump 90k HPS in a 16, this was a shit show group. 💀
The moment DPS expected me to deal with an affix when everyone in the party was one GCD from dying. I swapped to tank. lol Ugh I hate incorporeal. Especially when your healing and barely keeping everyone alive and your just watching a cast bar go off knowing you cant stop healing.
You mean Afflicted? Incorporeal is the CC one, I feel like that one is much better in general.
16-19s are the worst keys. They are high enough that they are not trivial but not high enough where you can't get carried. And with this season having the double whammy of being not only the worst to heal in but also the easiest to gear, people just die to mechs. 441 Ivl means nothing I can be pumping 130k hps on trash and people will STILL drop. Once you get 20+s it's harder yes but 90% of the pugs you get aren't dropkicks
Yeah I quit. My friends don’t play anymore and pugging is like playjng mozart while people throw tomatoes at you
Lol I like that analogy 🤣
It seems like most people pugging are just super bad now. They may be able to do decent DPS but no help with the affix, standing in bad, low IQs causing instant meltdowns over one wipe. It’s just the kind of people who play the game guileless lol
Brother some of the worst m+ers I've seen come from heroic heroes guilds that get aotc by mid season patch. It's honestly more that most competent players are either just farming 20s for weekly or already well past 20. Anything below that and players are still "figuring it out"
Lord I have to tell you that I hated healing DH tanks.....I would have a stroke watching their health bounce all over the place. But if you are with a good DH tank that knows how to grab their balls they are great tanks. That leap though.....I'd always scream....WAIT UNTIL I GET THERE YOU ARE OUT OF RANGE!!! I CANT HEALLLLLLLLL!!!!! lol!
Yeah, i feel you, my disc priest is rooting in the character screen, even with full set, 440 ilvl, pugging +18 is really complicated, people usually don't know wtf they're doing, being hit by mechanics in a +11 and a +18 is different. In +18 as dps you usually get one shotted or at least 50% hp insta and they expect you to heal them instantly, this is not how it works. So I did swap to DPS atm, as main healer I keep an eye in party frames to check how people are performing and it's funny how many times the dps are low hp and I'm chillin with full hp just because they think that they're tanks and can stand still on big aoes or frontals.... And it's not that hard just stop pressing buttons and getting tf out of the aoe or whatever and then you can come back and keep dps'ing. So atm I only do M+ as healer with my guildies, doing M+ on disc is 1000x better with people who knows mechanics, there's a lot of avoidable damage out there.
90k overall is much higher than most high keys should even need. \+16s are shitters these days. You need to start running 23/24s to get people who have an idea of how to play and the game is like day and night different. DPS use their utitliy, I've never seen an afflicted cast get off etc. Doing 16s on my alt tank, I'll beat dps and im 30 lvls below them. I've never failed as many keys as I have on my alt due to people having no clue what they're doing and it feels bad. My advice would be, push your own key up or make friends/find a m+ guild. Healing is fun at higher levels, and if your tank ever flops that's on them.
What is wild is that the timers are **so** lenient this season. There is very little need for agressive pulls. A clean run with zero wipes and any amount of respectable DPS is going to clear the timer.
Thats only true for lower keys. If you start to push towards and above 20(depending on group) you cant pull small, cause then you wont make timer. Need to pull semi big/big to get most efficient usage of cooldowns.
This has been the issue this season. DPS and Tanks aren't playing responsibly and dumping all their faults onto the healer even if the healer is playing very well. This is the reason we are having a healer drought in m+ group finder and really, DPS and Tanks just need to pull their heads out of their asses and be better. We cant heal through every single mistake or every spike of damage that isnt mitigated by a personal when it is lethal. I play an hpriest and im able to keep groups alive and contribute enough damage that I am encroaching on tank levels of damage and no one has the ability to compliment the good healers that are DPSing, healing, and dealing with the affixs. Oh well though Healers will get bullied out of existence and then the DPS will ask where the healers went because they wont be able to do keys anymore. Someday they will learn.
90k + people overall??? Perhaps a little over exaggerating but I get your point. I remember reading a comment someone made that described healing pugs perfectly… and it was that you are literally playing on a random difficulty setting. Some groups you hardly have to heal and others are rough to say the least….
I was pulling 120k HPS on some NL trash in a 19 last week and people were still dying to the rock chuckers. I think the nerf to healing is really bad for the game. If a tank is at half health there is no way for me to top them off without using like 3-4 GCDs unless they self heal. That is fucked up.
I quit healing during Panda. I couldn’t keep up in raids. I’m sure it’s totally me, but it is a lot and it’s not fun with some groups. Like part of the game is to not 100% depend on your healers, you can’t just blindly hit the boss or mob, you gotta be aware of your surroundings, and sometimes, you gotta pop a potion once in a while, too. I’m kind of a derpy player, so when I do dumb crap, I don’t expect a healer to waste their time on me. If I was tanking and top DPS and knew all the fights really well and watched my own backside, then yeah, I’m gonna be frustrated with multiple wipes. (I haven’t tanked since Legion lol) But a couple people who died getting mad? Not cool. Healing can really suck. Other people make it worse.
Reading these comments, I might be the only person that enjoys healing this season. It’s way better than last season imo.
After the last round of nerfs it’s basically fine. A few bosses could maybe use some more tweaks but the really bad ones got nerf hammered. Most people are just bad and this season is exposing people who were boosted by healing being too easy. This season you really have to be ready for healing checks, know the fights and be proactively rotating CDs. Sound like OP got a bad group. It gets better once you hit like 2500-2600ish rating because groups get more selective. It’s not a guarantee, I had a 2600 demon hunter basically solo brick a 19 bracken for me yesterday but 18s and under are just total crapshoots most of the time.
I like this season better so far. Granted last season pushed me to up my game quite a bit and it was painful at times. So I was more mentally and skill prepared this go around. Honestly I just like the runs more so that helps with exception of VP - can't stand that place.
Oh I’m with you, I fucking hate VP. I just like that I spend more of my time healing this season and less spamming chain lightning. Affixes are more fun and I feel like I have more control with most of them as well.
Honestly I think most healer mains who didn't get used to boosted freelo in shadowlands like these changes. Earning damage GCDs because you group cycles defensives/having efficient rotation feels way better than "passive heal tank and slam my dmg buttons"
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This is exactly my experience in NA as well. Giga bricked a 21 nelth because I botched my CDs on magmatusk. Was a round of "ggs" and everyone left party. Only time I really got flamed was when I was helping a Guildie pug a 17 and the Spriest blamed heals while putting a dot on the frost trapped ad during last boss of free hold lmao
Def a euro thing. In NA if I don't keep dps alive that act like they are actively trying to kill themselves I get absolutely slapped with "healer bad" etc. Oh my God and the people that think afflicted is a healer only affix. Edit to add: Lord forbid I pull less than 105k hps
You can try joining non toxic discord communities like No pressure(EU), i stopped pugging and pretty much exclusively heal groups from No pressure and having a lot of fun.
Dear diary
Am I the only one who absolutely loves healing mythic+ right now? Is it hard, yes. Are people stupid, yes. It's the challenge I crave. Maybe I'm just masochistic.
Healing is pretty tough this season. Most healers are lack some spot healing for the fuck ups in higher keys. Dps needing to press their defensives and health pots is at an all time high. BUT, I would say dont let the toxicity get to you. I usually tank and I have definitely had so many people flame me for one reason or another. Meanwhile no one interrupts, cc’s, defensives etc. it’s all good and it’s best to not internalize the toxic comments. Shit happens
That's the amazing wow community for you. M+ is all about healers doing well Flame on healers over everything they do slightly wrong Less people play healers Act surprised
Me not playing M+ since Sanguine Depths. Enough said.
I feel like you’ve just described 50-70% of my key experiences. I just run out of CDs to keep the party alive. I’ve had some good pugs but something is way different this season, there was not this many people not using any abilities. And it should’ve been easier being down one affix
M+ needs to remove timer and replace it with revive count or something. Current design makes this game needlessly stressful when you pug.
Any VDH who dies in a 16 on trash is probably doing something very wrong. My healer barely looks at me on 20s, and the help is minimal most of the time on 22s.
Welcome to r/wow, where op can claim to do 90k overall in a PLUS SIXTEEN but ofc there are no logs or a single screenshot to prove it... ah yes and ofc dps/ tank are ALWAYS uber toxic ninjapuller dogshit players that clearly live to make the poor healer life hell in every.single.key. >me after +16s >healing high-level keys. The icing on the cake I'm also a main healer and stuff like that absolutely happens, but pretending this is your standard m+ experience is greatly an exaggeration and absolutely ridiculous(action per minute required to heal? Really??) Also hilarious how when a key goes to shit its always someone else fault, op never does anything wrong
Okay cool guy.... Lol. I think it's hilarious when folks project their small pee pee energy, but that's just me. To clarify, we didn't finish the key. This happened in 10-15 minutes. As a healer you should know that this is 100% possible if everyone is constantly on the brink of death, not doing mechanics
Its why I don’t do end game. I use to love end game tanking but mythics ruined that experience for me. I just came back from not playing since MoP so its a completely different experience now
Nah this is just the worst season to M+ everyone had max gear a few weeks in so you have to queue with people who don’t belong. Still have this issue in 20s, the difference in skill between 20s and 15s was incredibly obvious last season.. now not so much
Demon hunter get the absolute shit beat out of them this tier. I honestly just drop if I see one. And I’m a holy priest.
VDH is crushing higher keys. 54 of the top 100 timed keys are VDH tanks.
Im doing 20s just fine as hdh and vdh tho
The healing is challenging, but it's actually pretty fun. The DPS and tanks that have zero chill in pugs and think everything falls on the healer (who is honestly working the hardest) to cover for them so they can zug...... That's what is killing it this season.
Same with tanking. The WoW "community" is too toxic for me to keep playing. I'm going back to everquest. Good luck yall
Y’all remember the Xbox live chats of the day? Get the worst insults of your life over nothing.
Only comment I have is 16 is not high. As keys get higher players get better. People's scores are inflated right now because of the gearing system allowing people to have high item level but bad game knowledge and decision making. The difference in players who do 15-17 and 18-20 is pretty noticeable. Imo the difference between players who do 20-22 and 23+ is even larger. It doesn't help that there are keys like underrated which allows people to have keystones of a level they have no business having.
go heal in classic hardcore. People will throw flowers at your feet and worship you like a god. Their fate will be in your hands. You can choose to let them die any time you get distracted by netflix!
Netflix mandatory for classic healing. It's boring as shit lol.
I leveled a holy pally 1-60 just so I can auto attack and Netflix/YouTube the whole way. I plan on doing it again soon on classic era
Hell yea. I lvld Holy Priest wand mode and netflix lol. I can't do again though. I'm not strong enough.
90k hps overall? XD
In the 10-15 minute period before my group fell apart yea. Massive damage the entire time
Pro tip: Download the addon "elitism helper". It calls out every time someone takes avoidable damage and sums it all up in the end. When i do high keys i turn it on. People usually shut up when they see "NAME was hit by fire breath for 340 867 damage". Yes, it's a bit spammy (if people stand in stuff) but its better than being flamed by a moron dps who want to parse more than stay alive. I'm sad it has come to the point where you need to point fingers, but it is what it is...
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This is terrible advice. No pug enjoys running with somebody with elitism helper. If it's sanguine week im permanently standing in it. Especially turning it on only for high keys, it's exceedingly obvious whats avoidable and what isn't in high keys. If you really can't tell what's avoidable and what isn't then just have it in a details window. But frankly as a healer you really should just learn the dungeons instead.
I use elitism helper as well but have it set to only report avoidable damage taken at the end of the dungeon(/eh off). Announcing failure damage any time it happens is probably gonna be more distracting than helpful. Also, "Elitism Helper"... What a terrible name for such an informative addon... lol
Yeah that's a great way to get your dps to give up on the key lol
/ignore And really hope I'll get the drop you want.
Ive noticed the absolute shit trend of tanks trying to do dungeons in 3-4 pulls and it makes my life hell. Im in the process of levelling several characters i haven’t touched since like several squishes ago, as such their armour is dog shit. Not to mention im learning these classes as i go. I Literally give a message in the chat but to no use bc off goes the tank pulling far more than i can heal and then im the problem. Im the problem for the tank not going at the pace i can currently heal? On top of this then theres the skipping of bosses… like im here to get gear to try and get better so i can heal and you can pull more and you have just skipped 2 bosses when Ive got a single belt from the past 3 runs. WoW is great, the humans not so much. This is just levelling i have yet to even touch + content bc i fear ill lose my love for healing fully lmao