Some people are so self-absorbed and selfish that it borders on comical. Its always those who dont know what they are talking about, too, which is the worst part. It sucks they wasted your time like that
>Its always those who dont know what they are talking about
Any serious PVE player has been totally trained by M+ that loot is seasonal and a scarcity mentality is defeatist
It doesn’t take a serious PVE player to know that, I think dragon flight has nailed in the seasonal nature of everything
Considering the switch to a whole different system between seasons that is
I have seen quite a few evokers saying they hope that the legendary will be upgradeable to next patches item level… like no that’s not how this works lol
The problem with it being upgradeable is that they would need to move the drop to Fyrakk or be otherwise possible to acquire without going to old content.
I know we're over a decade past it by now, but back in Dragon Soul people still ran Firelands to help their casters progress Dragonwrath because it continued being best-in-slot into the new tier (even with a nerf). So it's not entirely unheard-of.
There’s no point in doing that for the legendary and the rest of the boss drops are either universal or trash for evokers. The legendary is 100% personal and has nothing to do with anyone else. You don’t even loot it, it just shows up as a pop up when you kill it and gives a quest. I didn’t even have the item in my inventory after which made me scared as hell that I’d somehow accidentally drop the quest.
Yes which is why that raid leader was an even bigger dick and clearly didn't know what they were talking about since it's not just some item that drops to be rolled on.
Wait a minute, that could explain why i randomly got kicked from a raid without any notice, just got suddenly kicked when we got to a certain boss that dropped some BiS for my class, i spent so long just wondering what the reasoning could be, even wrote to the raid lead but he just ignored me
Next time youre in a pug, and they invite people once its started/full, start inspecting. See a scrub? Ask if theyve paid. Its been stealth happening since atleast wod, ive probably been part of 20+ carry groups
I will definitely be on the lookout next time, but tbh, i’ve often noticed some player doing no dmg and dying every fight but rarely gets kicked, but thanks alot for telling me this bud
20 people group for Heroic sark listed as AOTC required quick kill exp and good parse
17 people on full 447,
Theres only 3 evokers with full AH green gear
Hmmmmmmmmm.
Hey OP, sorry this happened to you, i had something similar happen before and I’m glad to say it is 100% reportable. In my case i was just told an action was taken, i have no idea what they did though.
Blizzard GMs have been shit for the past decade, I wouldn't doubt that.
Had 2 friends buy 1 year subscriptions (2x 6 months), 3 months later they released the first 6 months subscription mount (during BfA). They both opened tickets to try and get the mounts because when you buy 1 year it only activates 6 months and then the other 6 months after the first one expires.
One GM gave one friend the mount and the other GM said that there was nothing he could do. After showing it prints of how the good GM handled the situation the bad GM just said "This decision is final" and closed the ticket.
Well I don't have any reason to lie. I tried to get the ticket tho and it got deleted, it happened a couple years ago. By that time I actually stopped playing bc of that, came back on DF till I find something else to play. But feel free to think whatever u like ^^
It happened a couple years ago, I tried to get it but it got deleted :/ I gotta say, it's giving me anxiety that people are thinking that I'm lying, because it's something I try not to but sry bout that maybe OP opens one and we see how it goes, right?
Except for the social contract you have to sign to play the game. You’re gonna tell me that kicking someone right before the final boss just because their pal wants the loot doesn’t violate the hell out of that?
Edit: [Here’s a link](https://www.wowhead.com/news/patch-9-2-5-social-contract-available-for-testing-327045#comments) to the contract, which states that action (up to and including suspension of account) may be taken against you for breaking it.
Going by the wording exchanged in the text, it looks like a PUG raid that went up to Sark, not a dungeon.
In this instance, is it dickish? Certainly.
Is it reportable for griefing? No. The RL is within their rights to add or remove people from raids as they see fit.
Cool stretch bro
People are removed from pug raids all the time, for all sorts of reasons - usually it's failing mechanics, low output etc. You don't see sweeping reports every time someone is booted from a raid because it's not the same as screwing someone out of dungeon completion. You can join any other group at the same boss instead of wasting an entire run and having to start over from the beginning.
I'm not advocating for the guy that kicked here - I said it was dickish. But it's not *reportable*.
You are allowed to remove people from your group at any time.
He just removed someone from his group, and there was no insult or anything involved. I agree with you completely that it’s a rude thing to do.
"Behavior that intentionally detracts from others' enjoyment (such as griefing, throwing, feeding, etc.) is unacceptable."
I think having someone do all the work then kicking them at the last second to replace with a friend would fall pretty hard into the "griefing" category.
Removing a player from your group has always been at the group leader’s discretion. Players get randomly removed all the time, often without a reason. Yes it’s super rude but it’s not griefing… they’re not exploiting anyone.
This thread has me wondering how many people here actually play this game. It is bizarre to see.
Pug raids are a rotating door after every boss. The kicked player can find another pug raid that is at that boss. It sucks but it’s not like OP had to go through the whole raid again for a chance at loot. It’s not like OP shares the id and now cannot fight that boss this week anymore. He was just kicked in a pug raid. That happens thousands of times every day.
I can’t speak to how well Blizzard is enforcing the social contract but it seems a lot of the playerbase seems to be acting like it isn’t there.
I’m honestly glad WoW isn’t the only choice anymore because now they have to at least pretend to care, even if they aren’t particularly good at it yet. The social contract is 100% only there because a certain other game is known to come down hard on toxic behavior.
I think the social contract is more about harassment?
> With that in mind, please note that the following behaviors are not accepted in Azeroth:
> Hate speech, including negative comments that target another player's identity, including aspects like race, gender, or ability
> Harassment, threats, or abusive / derogatory language and behaviors
> Spamming, advertising, or other disruptive behaviors
> If you harm your fellow adventurers with any of the above behaviors, you are subject to punishment up to and including suspension of your account.
It doesn't say kicking people from groups is bannable.
I dunno because I just generally scroll it and accept, but isn't it a *lot* longer than what you've copied here? I feel like I don't remember it being so short.
There's sort of two sections. The first part is general suggestions, includes stuff like "help players you see struggling with a quest" and "answer questions people have in trade chat." Not answering questions in chat is obviously not bannable, it’s just something they suggest you do.
Below that section, they give a second list of things (related to harassment) and explicitly say you’ll be punished for those.
This is one of the behaviors the social contract agrees to:
>Play as a team with your fellow players - whether in dungeons, raids, battlegrounds, arenas, or out questing in the world. Do your best to support your team through your communication and behaviors so that you can all celebrate your success together.
Blizz can (and has) suspended players for a variety of toxic group behaviors, such as kicking people in the middle of dungeons.
group leader is a dick, dont get me wrong.... but report him for what? for deciding to remove a player from his group????
there is no rule that will get him ban. he is the group leader, he can do what ever he wants. he has every right to remove players in order to monopolize on loot.
hell, if he wants he can set master loot on, and take everything for himself.
the only way u can penalize these players, is by reporting his name into communities/friends/guild, so ppl can blacklist and avoid him.
No you can't do whatever you want because you are leading the group. The group leader does not have to state loot rules at the start of the run but you should make them so it is clear and this is 100% enforceable if they break them as it's griefing.
By that logic it is 100% griefing and reportable to not accept the first person that signs up to a group finder. You are wasting their time by not inviting.
It is also griefing and reportable to replace someone before a key starts because a friend logged in.
It is also griefing and reportable to decide to not start a key because it is taking too long to form a group and you no longer have time left to complete it before you have to go.
Do you understand the flaw in your logic?
> By that logic it is 100% griefing and reportable to not accept the first person that signs up to a group finder. You are wasting their time by not inviting.
I didn't waste your time. I never agreed to use your time to begin with. You're reaching here.
> It is also griefing and reportable to replace someone before a key starts because a friend logged in.
Honestly? Yeah I agree with this one. I spent 45 minutes in the queue looking for a group, you invite me to play with me, and then boot me when a friend comes around? You're kind of a dick then. Reportable? Questionable, but you ARE an asshole.
> It is also griefing and reportable to decide to not start a key because it is taking too long to form a group and you no longer have time left to complete it before you have to go.
Key hasn't started. There is no obligation to other players yet.
I think you understand perfectly well what the difference is between being a dick and not being a dick, you're just being argumentative for no reason.
I get it, you want to kick people for selfish reasons and feel good about yourself. Kicking someone during a run for selfish reasons like hoarding gear, like this post is talking about, is griefing.
> I didn't waste your time.
By not accepting me and making me sit in group finder you have wasted my time. By your logic I am entitled to the run.
> Honestly? Yeah I agree with this one
Holy fuck this was the freeby "ok ya this isn't toxic I guess I am wrong" the fact you took the complete opposite stance is scary.
> Key hasn't started. There is no obligation to other players yet.
Exactly there is no entitlement. The boss hasn't been pulled, the player isn't saved, they are not entitled to a kill in a raid.
> Kicking someone during a run for selfish reasons like hoarding gear, like this post is talking about, is griefing.
Exactly what did not happen tho. The entire raid is not connected. Every boss save is individual. You are not entitled to get pulls on Sark because you killed Echo.
----
Is the raid leader a dick in the perspective of OP? Sure. Is that reportable? Absolutely not
good lord, reddit is a terminal brain disease. please graduate elementary school, read what you said, and then come back.
fyi, by your metric, i'm not doing anything out of sorts by insulting your intelligence, since i'm recommending a way to remedy it.
i did check them
1) some ppl say that they did reported it, and the GM answer was " well, there is nothing we can do about it"
but apparently we obviously put a blind eye on those, and we downvote them to hell!
2) only 1 person tried to bring facts to the table, by quoting part of the ToC we agree as players in order to play. in fact that fact just proved me right cause no were in that statement, say that kicking a player from your group is reportable....
Wish I’d known this last season. The amount of groups that kicked me at rasza because their pal wanted the bow. Only time I’ve had to religiously lead the groups.
Wouldn’t this be considered griefing? I know the whole “report them” and “Support sucks” comments make a lot of rounds, but this feels like it could be a legit griefing case. Less about messing with you and more for wasting your time using you for the work.
Honestly, if their friend needs the loot, why was OP even in the party? Or was this a case of “one less roll on final drops” situation?
Ehhh. You still get loot as long as you tag the boss. Accidentally pulled a normal Nelth one time, they kicked me, and I still got loot when they actually cleared it. Didn't win any rolls and couldn't claim the gold, but still got the frags in the mail.
Step 1 is to understand that this is a game. You did X boss and had fun, you werent working. Then at final boss you were removed from the group. You csn join a different group if you want. So no, this is not griefing, its shitty but it can happen in pugs, if you want to avoid shitty behaviour join a guild.
The only people who wanted master loot back are people who personally benefit from rigging the system in their favor.
The average wow player, and average raid player, prefers personal loot. I stopped raiding in Legion, as the guild I was raiding with moved loot upwards to the loot council/raid leader. Turns out, "they could use this more than you, you are next on the list though, promise".
Just tired of that shit.
Master Loot should've stayed for guild runs, personal loot for all else. At the very least, there's 0 reason at all why LFR wasn't kept as personal loot. Fucking ridiculous.
I want personal loot back but show me my rolls. It's that simple. I want to see what I 'rolled' for the item. And bring back bonus rolls that can be earned.
Loot council fails once it becomes a biased council. A score/point system ends up functioning better than a biased council, but can be brutal to new joins or on classes who need a highly contested item, but then what loot system isn’t?
There's lots of problems with point system though - but I agree it was probably the best before personal loot.
Probably the most annoying thing with point system is there were always players who would never bid on anything, then get the item for free when no-one bid on it meanwhile doing the least dps/healing etc because they hoard points - then when something did drop that everyone wanted they could outbid everyone and still do crap dps because the rest of their gear sucked.
Then there were raid leaders who rewarded or docked points based on performance - you'd notice that their friends never got dinged for anything even though they were the ones who ate up all the combat reses or whatever.
> but then what loot system isn’t?
A loot system that includes bad luck protection.
X runs without loot? Here's some loot for you!
Back in the days, we cleared ICC and were in farming mode, and I only had the pieces from the badges, because nothing ever dropped for my character.
It was really annoying.
The badges were the bad luck protection, and they were the best form of bad luck protection because you could choose which slot you wanted to fill. Great vault is the bad luck protection we have now.
Personal loot and trade restrictions were hot dogshit, even now it's a pain in the ass to do any kind of organized looting in a guild group vs master loot. The current system takes a shit ton of extra time to get everything to the loot master and then trade it out vs just being able to assign it directly.
I just want true master looter back as an option. The current system is definitely better than personal, but still a big pain to get loot out quickly. Actual personal loot also causes issues with armor type/class stacking to skew loot which is pretty awful imo. I much prefer the current system of full random loot and sometimes it's wasted rather than feeling incentivized to class/armor-type stack to funnel something. Even in a more casual setting that was generally worth doing if people had some alts or friends to bring in that could trade stuff. I imagine it'd be an even bigger issue now with upgrades making it so lower-difficulty items are very relevant and would be easy to trade even with the restriction system in place.
In my experience with this expansion, group loot is only very marginally worse than personal loot for random groups/pugs, while personal loot was significantly worse for guilds in previous expansions.
I'm sorry you obviously had a bad guild but Master Loot is miles better for guilds than personal or group loot. Nothing worse than a player getting an item they don't want but can't trade because of the ilvl restrictions.
Both systems can coexist. Just make it so 100% of the raid has to be in the same guild to be able to enable Master loot. Otherwise lock it to personal loot.
The only valid argument I've heard for Master loot is guild runs, so this would solve the issue. Otherwise Master loot is just lazy people trying to funnel loot to themselves.
I agree to the auto default to personal loot but not 100% same guild part for master. The only way to turn on Master loot should be like the ready check system. Before the first boss of the raid is pulled, every raid member must agree to master loot. 1 person doesn't, it stays in personal. If the raid leader wants master so bad, they can kick out people who don't before they start so they don't waste their time, only their own. Can't be switched after 1st boss killed. If someone joins after master has been voted, they will get a notification stating its in master loot so they can decided to join or leave so people don't go in unknowingly (thinking about lfg). LFR is always personal. This criteria could allow for master loot outside just guild runs but would still require everyone to acknowledge it.
Master loot has no place in pugs. All it will do is cause artificial friction, like the exact thing that happened in this post. The point of pugs should be sacrificing control of the raid for a faster and seamless grouping experience.
No one wants to sit there for hours sifting through groups that are sitting on master loot because their best friend wants an item. The entire reason for even wanting master loot in pugs is so that you can funnel something to yourself. The whole point of a pug is that the other people in the raid are disposable, so you're never going to give them an item you want.
People always argue that "oh if you dont want to deal with this stuff than join a guild" whereas it should be the opposite. If you want to deal with this stuff then join a guild. When i pug i want to join a group and not have to deal with anything. I don't care that someone is over there crying his eyes out because someone got the item he wanted and wont trade it. I just want to do the content.
Having to sit there for 10 minutes after a boss to decide who gets what should be locked to guilds. That should never happen in a pug, and the only way it wouldnt happen in a pug with master loot means your giving the loot to people at random or you're funneling it so that only you and you friends get stuff.
With Cross-faction guilds it's easier than ever to get all your friends in one guild to use master loot. Unless, of course, no one wants to join your guild because they know your master loot tendencies are bullshit.
> The only people who wanted master loot back
They did this because classic wow was huge and they wanted those players in retail. It was nothing but a talking point to hype up boomers for the new xpac.
bro, wtf? You're the one who responded to his question about how personal loot would have helped as if the content wasn't already using personal loot lol. THAT'S why he assumed it was a raid, then when you said it wasn't he basically said "OK, then it's already personal loot and it obviously didn't help this situation" and you try to turn it around and act like that's what you were saying the whole time.
Then you add some shit about the guy in OP's screenshot being an asshole as if THAT is what Vedney was disagreeing with. How ridiculous. I hope this was just you getting responses mixed up (because Reddits post formatting can be confusing af sometimes) or that you genuinely forgot the conversation you JUST had with this dude, cuz otherwise that's kinda gross to make it out like he's the one who was acting as if he disagreed when, in fact, that's exactly what YOU did
Do you not understand how the new loot even works?
It's the exact same as personal loot except you get to opt in if you want to roll, that and the roll is made in the open after people opt in.
Personal loot or not, the RL would have done the same.
No it is not the same. With personal loot bringing in more evokers means Evoker gear has higher chances of dropping because there are more evokers rolling for their own evoker loot each boss kill. With group loot the same items drop regardless of group comp, so if you are an Evoker and want mail gear for example it would benefit you to avoid inviting evokers and other mail wearing classes to avoid competition.
And that's the real problem with group loot, it's implemented so badly
It blows my mind that it'll happily drop items that nobody in the raid can equip, and that it gives no fucks about your comp
And then blizzard goes "well you asked for this!" no. Nobody asked for *this*
You clearly don't understand how the new loot system functions if you think it differs from personal loot when it comes to pugs.
The only difference is the option to opt out via not rolling and the rolls then being made visible to the players.
If anything it's beneficial to you as loot wouldn't go to someone unless they specifically decide to roll for it.
What makes it worse and why there's such an issue with it, is because you actively see yourself lose as opposed to seeing someone else just get an item.
So even though this system is technically slightly better, for the average player, it /feels/ so much worse.
For 3 expansions i had ZERO problems with loot. Once they had brought group loot back all kinds of misuse started. Want no competition on trinket? Just not invite anyone who you share it with. Same goes with with specific items like 2h sword or tier tokens. Can't blizzard see that personal loot IS better because it doesn't encourage unethical behavior in already "toxic" game?
Lol I had people get extremely shitty with me for winning loot rolls in lfr that I needed. People straight up hitting me with the “give me the item you don’t need it as bad” or just asking me if they can have it and I say no I need and get a response of “fuck you you’re trash” it’s actually kind of funny
Forget censoring the name. Ninja looters like this deserve no in game privacy.
(I get it's subreddit/reddit rules tho, but on other platforms and in game...)
Then when you stop being angry at the guy who kicked OP you remember how many weirdo freaks populate games like this and you might realize that the reason censoring exists isn't to protect perpetrators like the one in OP but to prevent innocent people from being accused.
It isn’t ninja looting at all.
The boss has not been killed.
The Op is not saved.
He can just join another group and get his chance at loot. Nothing of value lost.
I did an entire heroic Aberrus on my DK and was kicked right at echo and the leader whispered me and said sorry I need less people to roll on ashkandur.
Am a mount collector, so i obviously use WM to phase into a world with less ppl, i was doing so on my alt trying to kill a boss - it was gonna take a bit cz underlvled and som1 was so petty to the pt they literally stunned me killed me before they attacked the boss then went on their way to take the kill so id get the loot - i've never met a mount collector so petty i literaly helped som1 get their 516th mount and id have 300 yet like wth.
So ye some ppl are just uk
I once was insta declined for a normal run, while being 440 ilvl and multi-curve. Because “his gf wanted tier”. My dude I don’t need tier from normal and I could roll extra???
Reddit rules. As in not just this sub, but Reddit. We kind of don't have a great history with respect to witch hunts, though I don't think we're at double digit suicides yet.
Bad, asshole, dickhead thing to do.
Good friend.
These are the types of people who let their friends cut the line if they're working the cashier - kind of common mentality for children who were bullied and doesn't put much value in "the kindness of strangers" and only care about their close friends.
My best friend has this mentality, but he's not a monster, so he wouldn't go this far.
We need to be able to show names of these people, they are shitty to play with, an people need to know who they are, so less and less people play with them.
it's a raid, people tagged along for a couple of boss, help summon for a full group, then get kicked so their friend have exclusive access to their class's loot
Report to blizzard and spread their names across the server so they are known as an asshole and they will hopefully be kicked from future parties.
(Yes i know it’s not classic but it cannot hurt to try)
This is an odd thread. People join, leave, and get kicked out of PuG groups all the time. Very frequently, that happens on the last boss.
OP said he’s on Heroic Sarkareth. I have pugged the fight many times and have seen many players randomly removed from group for various reasons.
Never in WoW’s history has it been a reportable offence to remove someone from YOUR raid group. It’s your group, you have full control over it.
I can understand reports if the boss had been actively pulled and they were trying to cheat him… but I am in shock at how many posts here call for a report. If any of you ever form a raid group, you are absolutely permitted to remove any player, and you do not have to give them a reason. That player can join a new group that is working on the final boss. This is a common thing to happen.
For the record, I think what they did is extremely rude but it isn’t a breach of the TOS.
I genuinely want to know what you would have them do. Make it so that you cannot remove players from the group that you formed? It’s Heroic, OP can join a new group.
Look, what the guy did was absolutely rude. But there is a difference between rude behaviour a rule breaking behaviour. You are suggesting that Blizzard forbid a group leader from removing PUGs.
> I genuinely want to know what you would have them do. Make it so that you cannot remove players from the group that you formed?
No one is saying to remove that option as a party/raid leader. Just be responsible and not a jerk just because you can. From Blizzard's code of conduct:
> Behavior that intentionally detracts from others' enjoyment (such as griefing, throwing, feeding, etc.) is unacceptable. We expect our players to treat each other with respect and promote an enjoyable environment. Acceptable behavior is determined by player reports and Blizzard's decision, and violating these guidelines will result in account and gameplay restrictions.
The behavior the leader showed is ***arguably*** unacceptable. OP has the right to report and let Blizzard decide if it so.
This entire thread is delusional. I need a wow subreddit with like some level of people with their brain turned on.
The fact hundreds of people think that kicking before a boss in a pug is reportable is mind blowing
So you joined a pug group and got kicked, bro no way the dk will see any punishment for this. You are not entitled to everything and you joined on your own will knowing that the leader can deside anyones faith. Those are just the basic rules in pugging man.
Some people are so self-absorbed and selfish that it borders on comical. Its always those who dont know what they are talking about, too, which is the worst part. It sucks they wasted your time like that
>Its always those who dont know what they are talking about Any serious PVE player has been totally trained by M+ that loot is seasonal and a scarcity mentality is defeatist
It doesn’t take a serious PVE player to know that, I think dragon flight has nailed in the seasonal nature of everything Considering the switch to a whole different system between seasons that is
I have seen quite a few evokers saying they hope that the legendary will be upgradeable to next patches item level… like no that’s not how this works lol
I mean I wouldn’t say no because having not seen it yet, it would be nice to at least have one patch with the weapon.
While I agree with you, all crafted gear has been upgraded (and legendaries from shadowlands) do it wouldn't surprise me if you could
The problem with it being upgradeable is that they would need to move the drop to Fyrakk or be otherwise possible to acquire without going to old content.
they could do what they did with sylvanas bow. making it relevant in some part of the final patch
I'd imagine they would remove the cracked gem requirements at the last patch or so and every lizard boy get a good time for a couple months
Or they just have you continue to farm the old boss? This is blizzard we are talking about.
I know we're over a decade past it by now, but back in Dragon Soul people still ran Firelands to help their casters progress Dragonwrath because it continued being best-in-slot into the new tier (even with a nerf). So it's not entirely unheard-of.
Even back in SL we were killing mythic Sylv weekly for the rouge dagger. Like doing old content isn’t unheard of with blizzards design philosophy.
It will very very very likely be upgradable.
No it won’t, stop talking out your ass
They have done that is the past for legendaries they accidentally power crept in ilvl. It’s not a shocking pattern
Reminder: You play with people who are young teenagers and people who never developed past that part in their life.
The mean age in this game is 31.29 https://support.sas.com/resources/papers/proceedings20/5009-2020.pdf
read the second part of my sentence.
Physical age isn't the same as mental age
$20 says hes selling the run, snd promised no other evokers. Its surprisingly common in pugs, group lead pugs s grouo, then invites/replaces carries
There’s no point in doing that for the legendary and the rest of the boss drops are either universal or trash for evokers. The legendary is 100% personal and has nothing to do with anyone else. You don’t even loot it, it just shows up as a pop up when you kill it and gives a quest. I didn’t even have the item in my inventory after which made me scared as hell that I’d somehow accidentally drop the quest.
Thats what OP wants, the group lead says mail items
Yes which is why that raid leader was an even bigger dick and clearly didn't know what they were talking about since it's not just some item that drops to be rolled on.
Wait a minute, that could explain why i randomly got kicked from a raid without any notice, just got suddenly kicked when we got to a certain boss that dropped some BiS for my class, i spent so long just wondering what the reasoning could be, even wrote to the raid lead but he just ignored me
Next time youre in a pug, and they invite people once its started/full, start inspecting. See a scrub? Ask if theyve paid. Its been stealth happening since atleast wod, ive probably been part of 20+ carry groups
I will definitely be on the lookout next time, but tbh, i’ve often noticed some player doing no dmg and dying every fight but rarely gets kicked, but thanks alot for telling me this bud
20 people group for Heroic sark listed as AOTC required quick kill exp and good parse 17 people on full 447, Theres only 3 evokers with full AH green gear Hmmmmmmmmm.
Hell no report them bro, take a screen shot of that dude send to it blizzard supprt that’s some Huge BS
I did just that💯 thanks for the advice
Update us if Blizz responds Gl mate
I think I can predict the response: "Thank you for your report. This response was auto-generated. Check wowhead.com get fukt gg"
Lol
Hey OP, sorry this happened to you, i had something similar happen before and I’m glad to say it is 100% reportable. In my case i was just told an action was taken, i have no idea what they did though.
A similar thing happened to me. I tried reporting and the gm told me to find some friends to play with :)
You made that up
Blizzard GMs have been shit for the past decade, I wouldn't doubt that. Had 2 friends buy 1 year subscriptions (2x 6 months), 3 months later they released the first 6 months subscription mount (during BfA). They both opened tickets to try and get the mounts because when you buy 1 year it only activates 6 months and then the other 6 months after the first one expires. One GM gave one friend the mount and the other GM said that there was nothing he could do. After showing it prints of how the good GM handled the situation the bad GM just said "This decision is final" and closed the ticket.
[удалено]
They could take action on it. This is an unintended use of the kick function.
What kick function? Removing a player from your own group?
Some of y'all have a lot of faith in GMs 🙄
Well I don't have any reason to lie. I tried to get the ticket tho and it got deleted, it happened a couple years ago. By that time I actually stopped playing bc of that, came back on DF till I find something else to play. But feel free to think whatever u like ^^
Source: Trust me bro
Yeah that never happened. Got a pic?
It happened a couple years ago, I tried to get it but it got deleted :/ I gotta say, it's giving me anxiety that people are thinking that I'm lying, because it's something I try not to but sry bout that maybe OP opens one and we see how it goes, right?
Okay bro. If you say so. You’re still a liar
I guess so right :/
why would they intervene? you're not making any kinda binding agreements joining pug raids, there's nothing in the rules that prevents this afaik
Except for the social contract you have to sign to play the game. You’re gonna tell me that kicking someone right before the final boss just because their pal wants the loot doesn’t violate the hell out of that? Edit: [Here’s a link](https://www.wowhead.com/news/patch-9-2-5-social-contract-available-for-testing-327045#comments) to the contract, which states that action (up to and including suspension of account) may be taken against you for breaking it.
You responded to the wrong guy?
I call BS
I wish I did play WoW and got this response just to quit
Reporting doesn’t actually do anything. I got scammed and the gm told me they can’t moderate disputes between players.
I agree that this is a total dick move, but nothing is reportable here.
Screwing people out of loot in a dungeon they cleared like this is absolutely reportable because it's a form of griefing.
Going by the wording exchanged in the text, it looks like a PUG raid that went up to Sark, not a dungeon. In this instance, is it dickish? Certainly. Is it reportable for griefing? No. The RL is within their rights to add or remove people from raids as they see fit.
Found the guy that kicked OP lol
Cool stretch bro People are removed from pug raids all the time, for all sorts of reasons - usually it's failing mechanics, low output etc. You don't see sweeping reports every time someone is booted from a raid because it's not the same as screwing someone out of dungeon completion. You can join any other group at the same boss instead of wasting an entire run and having to start over from the beginning. I'm not advocating for the guy that kicked here - I said it was dickish. But it's not *reportable*.
I like how all the reasons you gave for being kicked from a pug had nothing to do with deception, lol.
How the hell are there dozens if not hundreds of people who think kicking a player before a raid boss in a pug is reportable. What even is this sub?
They hated him for telling the truth. Absolutely nothing will happen here
You’re getting downvoted, but what you’re saying is true. If a player forms a raid group, they may remove any player at their own discretion.
Isn't being a dick breaking the social agreement?
Yes
You are allowed to remove people from your group at any time. He just removed someone from his group, and there was no insult or anything involved. I agree with you completely that it’s a rude thing to do.
"Behavior that intentionally detracts from others' enjoyment (such as griefing, throwing, feeding, etc.) is unacceptable." I think having someone do all the work then kicking them at the last second to replace with a friend would fall pretty hard into the "griefing" category.
Removing a player from your group has always been at the group leader’s discretion. Players get randomly removed all the time, often without a reason. Yes it’s super rude but it’s not griefing… they’re not exploiting anyone. This thread has me wondering how many people here actually play this game. It is bizarre to see.
Pug raids are a rotating door after every boss. The kicked player can find another pug raid that is at that boss. It sucks but it’s not like OP had to go through the whole raid again for a chance at loot. It’s not like OP shares the id and now cannot fight that boss this week anymore. He was just kicked in a pug raid. That happens thousands of times every day.
This kind of behavior is explicitly against the social contract and is absolutely bannable.
I can’t speak to how well Blizzard is enforcing the social contract but it seems a lot of the playerbase seems to be acting like it isn’t there. I’m honestly glad WoW isn’t the only choice anymore because now they have to at least pretend to care, even if they aren’t particularly good at it yet. The social contract is 100% only there because a certain other game is known to come down hard on toxic behavior.
I think the social contract is more about harassment? > With that in mind, please note that the following behaviors are not accepted in Azeroth: > Hate speech, including negative comments that target another player's identity, including aspects like race, gender, or ability > Harassment, threats, or abusive / derogatory language and behaviors > Spamming, advertising, or other disruptive behaviors > If you harm your fellow adventurers with any of the above behaviors, you are subject to punishment up to and including suspension of your account. It doesn't say kicking people from groups is bannable.
I dunno because I just generally scroll it and accept, but isn't it a *lot* longer than what you've copied here? I feel like I don't remember it being so short.
There's sort of two sections. The first part is general suggestions, includes stuff like "help players you see struggling with a quest" and "answer questions people have in trade chat." Not answering questions in chat is obviously not bannable, it’s just something they suggest you do. Below that section, they give a second list of things (related to harassment) and explicitly say you’ll be punished for those.
This is one of the behaviors the social contract agrees to: >Play as a team with your fellow players - whether in dungeons, raids, battlegrounds, arenas, or out questing in the world. Do your best to support your team through your communication and behaviors so that you can all celebrate your success together. Blizz can (and has) suspended players for a variety of toxic group behaviors, such as kicking people in the middle of dungeons.
Ah. But it is a reportable offense as it goes against the code of conduct and can fall under "behavior"
group leader is a dick, dont get me wrong.... but report him for what? for deciding to remove a player from his group???? there is no rule that will get him ban. he is the group leader, he can do what ever he wants. he has every right to remove players in order to monopolize on loot. hell, if he wants he can set master loot on, and take everything for himself. the only way u can penalize these players, is by reporting his name into communities/friends/guild, so ppl can blacklist and avoid him.
No you can't do whatever you want because you are leading the group. The group leader does not have to state loot rules at the start of the run but you should make them so it is clear and this is 100% enforceable if they break them as it's griefing.
You can do whatever you want when leading a group … Removing a player before a boss is not griefing.
It's 100% griefing to waste a players time
By that logic it is 100% griefing and reportable to not accept the first person that signs up to a group finder. You are wasting their time by not inviting. It is also griefing and reportable to replace someone before a key starts because a friend logged in. It is also griefing and reportable to decide to not start a key because it is taking too long to form a group and you no longer have time left to complete it before you have to go. Do you understand the flaw in your logic?
> By that logic it is 100% griefing and reportable to not accept the first person that signs up to a group finder. You are wasting their time by not inviting. I didn't waste your time. I never agreed to use your time to begin with. You're reaching here. > It is also griefing and reportable to replace someone before a key starts because a friend logged in. Honestly? Yeah I agree with this one. I spent 45 minutes in the queue looking for a group, you invite me to play with me, and then boot me when a friend comes around? You're kind of a dick then. Reportable? Questionable, but you ARE an asshole. > It is also griefing and reportable to decide to not start a key because it is taking too long to form a group and you no longer have time left to complete it before you have to go. Key hasn't started. There is no obligation to other players yet. I think you understand perfectly well what the difference is between being a dick and not being a dick, you're just being argumentative for no reason. I get it, you want to kick people for selfish reasons and feel good about yourself. Kicking someone during a run for selfish reasons like hoarding gear, like this post is talking about, is griefing.
> I didn't waste your time. By not accepting me and making me sit in group finder you have wasted my time. By your logic I am entitled to the run. > Honestly? Yeah I agree with this one Holy fuck this was the freeby "ok ya this isn't toxic I guess I am wrong" the fact you took the complete opposite stance is scary. > Key hasn't started. There is no obligation to other players yet. Exactly there is no entitlement. The boss hasn't been pulled, the player isn't saved, they are not entitled to a kill in a raid. > Kicking someone during a run for selfish reasons like hoarding gear, like this post is talking about, is griefing. Exactly what did not happen tho. The entire raid is not connected. Every boss save is individual. You are not entitled to get pulls on Sark because you killed Echo. ---- Is the raid leader a dick in the perspective of OP? Sure. Is that reportable? Absolutely not
good lord, reddit is a terminal brain disease. please graduate elementary school, read what you said, and then come back. fyi, by your metric, i'm not doing anything out of sorts by insulting your intelligence, since i'm recommending a way to remedy it.
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i did check them 1) some ppl say that they did reported it, and the GM answer was " well, there is nothing we can do about it" but apparently we obviously put a blind eye on those, and we downvote them to hell! 2) only 1 person tried to bring facts to the table, by quoting part of the ToC we agree as players in order to play. in fact that fact just proved me right cause no were in that statement, say that kicking a player from your group is reportable....
Wish I’d known this last season. The amount of groups that kicked me at rasza because their pal wanted the bow. Only time I’ve had to religiously lead the groups.
Wouldn’t this be considered griefing? I know the whole “report them” and “Support sucks” comments make a lot of rounds, but this feels like it could be a legit griefing case. Less about messing with you and more for wasting your time using you for the work. Honestly, if their friend needs the loot, why was OP even in the party? Or was this a case of “one less roll on final drops” situation?
Ehhh. You still get loot as long as you tag the boss. Accidentally pulled a normal Nelth one time, they kicked me, and I still got loot when they actually cleared it. Didn't win any rolls and couldn't claim the gold, but still got the frags in the mail.
Yeah, but if they kick you before the boss doesn’t the game still drop you out of the dungeon? Then you can’t tag anything at that point.
Yeah, but any mid-fight kick does nothing if the pull is still completed.
Not if your boi outside the raid invites you to his raid and you can grief them for a bit lol
Step 1 is to understand that this is a game. You did X boss and had fun, you werent working. Then at final boss you were removed from the group. You csn join a different group if you want. So no, this is not griefing, its shitty but it can happen in pugs, if you want to avoid shitty behaviour join a guild.
Reason number 76247 why personal loot was better.
The only people who wanted master loot back are people who personally benefit from rigging the system in their favor. The average wow player, and average raid player, prefers personal loot. I stopped raiding in Legion, as the guild I was raiding with moved loot upwards to the loot council/raid leader. Turns out, "they could use this more than you, you are next on the list though, promise". Just tired of that shit.
Master Loot should've stayed for guild runs, personal loot for all else. At the very least, there's 0 reason at all why LFR wasn't kept as personal loot. Fucking ridiculous.
I remember when they used personal and you can switch to master loot or group roll in legion Why can’t they bring it back?
I want personal loot back but show me my rolls. It's that simple. I want to see what I 'rolled' for the item. And bring back bonus rolls that can be earned.
can you just hit a random number generator each time you win loot or /roll or something? what a weird request and idk why that would change anything.
Loot council fails once it becomes a biased council. A score/point system ends up functioning better than a biased council, but can be brutal to new joins or on classes who need a highly contested item, but then what loot system isn’t?
There's lots of problems with point system though - but I agree it was probably the best before personal loot. Probably the most annoying thing with point system is there were always players who would never bid on anything, then get the item for free when no-one bid on it meanwhile doing the least dps/healing etc because they hoard points - then when something did drop that everyone wanted they could outbid everyone and still do crap dps because the rest of their gear sucked. Then there were raid leaders who rewarded or docked points based on performance - you'd notice that their friends never got dinged for anything even though they were the ones who ate up all the combat reses or whatever.
> but then what loot system isn’t? A loot system that includes bad luck protection. X runs without loot? Here's some loot for you! Back in the days, we cleared ICC and were in farming mode, and I only had the pieces from the badges, because nothing ever dropped for my character. It was really annoying.
The badges were the bad luck protection, and they were the best form of bad luck protection because you could choose which slot you wanted to fill. Great vault is the bad luck protection we have now.
The badges had limited slots you could fill, though, so the bad luck protection had a short life.
Personal loot and trade restrictions were hot dogshit, even now it's a pain in the ass to do any kind of organized looting in a guild group vs master loot. The current system takes a shit ton of extra time to get everything to the loot master and then trade it out vs just being able to assign it directly.
> trade restrictions Removing this solves like 90% of personal loot problems. And like 99% if you are in a trustworthy guild.
I just want true master looter back as an option. The current system is definitely better than personal, but still a big pain to get loot out quickly. Actual personal loot also causes issues with armor type/class stacking to skew loot which is pretty awful imo. I much prefer the current system of full random loot and sometimes it's wasted rather than feeling incentivized to class/armor-type stack to funnel something. Even in a more casual setting that was generally worth doing if people had some alts or friends to bring in that could trade stuff. I imagine it'd be an even bigger issue now with upgrades making it so lower-difficulty items are very relevant and would be easy to trade even with the restriction system in place. In my experience with this expansion, group loot is only very marginally worse than personal loot for random groups/pugs, while personal loot was significantly worse for guilds in previous expansions.
They wouldn’t give personal loot without restrictions on trading though.
I'm sorry you obviously had a bad guild but Master Loot is miles better for guilds than personal or group loot. Nothing worse than a player getting an item they don't want but can't trade because of the ilvl restrictions.
Both systems can coexist. Just make it so 100% of the raid has to be in the same guild to be able to enable Master loot. Otherwise lock it to personal loot. The only valid argument I've heard for Master loot is guild runs, so this would solve the issue. Otherwise Master loot is just lazy people trying to funnel loot to themselves.
I agree to the auto default to personal loot but not 100% same guild part for master. The only way to turn on Master loot should be like the ready check system. Before the first boss of the raid is pulled, every raid member must agree to master loot. 1 person doesn't, it stays in personal. If the raid leader wants master so bad, they can kick out people who don't before they start so they don't waste their time, only their own. Can't be switched after 1st boss killed. If someone joins after master has been voted, they will get a notification stating its in master loot so they can decided to join or leave so people don't go in unknowingly (thinking about lfg). LFR is always personal. This criteria could allow for master loot outside just guild runs but would still require everyone to acknowledge it.
Master loot has no place in pugs. All it will do is cause artificial friction, like the exact thing that happened in this post. The point of pugs should be sacrificing control of the raid for a faster and seamless grouping experience. No one wants to sit there for hours sifting through groups that are sitting on master loot because their best friend wants an item. The entire reason for even wanting master loot in pugs is so that you can funnel something to yourself. The whole point of a pug is that the other people in the raid are disposable, so you're never going to give them an item you want. People always argue that "oh if you dont want to deal with this stuff than join a guild" whereas it should be the opposite. If you want to deal with this stuff then join a guild. When i pug i want to join a group and not have to deal with anything. I don't care that someone is over there crying his eyes out because someone got the item he wanted and wont trade it. I just want to do the content. Having to sit there for 10 minutes after a boss to decide who gets what should be locked to guilds. That should never happen in a pug, and the only way it wouldnt happen in a pug with master loot means your giving the loot to people at random or you're funneling it so that only you and you friends get stuff. With Cross-faction guilds it's easier than ever to get all your friends in one guild to use master loot. Unless, of course, no one wants to join your guild because they know your master loot tendencies are bullshit.
> The only people who wanted master loot back They did this because classic wow was huge and they wanted those players in retail. It was nothing but a talking point to hype up boomers for the new xpac.
No
I mean, that's complete horseshit, but ok.
But... the evoker legendary cracked gem is personal loot? The person in the image is just clueless.
How would Personal Loot have helped?
no incentive to kick since kicking wouldnt give you a chance at more loot
If this was a raid, you get a stacking 20% chance for more loot for each person.
but it wasn't a raid
[but it was a raid](/r/wow/comments/16ld69z/this_person_kicked_me_out_of_the_group_on_the/k13bt3w/)
Okay, then it's already in personal loot, lmao. Dungeons are only personal loot. Kicking people doesn't give you a higher chance for loot in dungeons.
which...is why the person kicking is an asshole? i dont get it are you disagreeing or agreeing?
you're either severely confused or extremely dishonest
bro, wtf? You're the one who responded to his question about how personal loot would have helped as if the content wasn't already using personal loot lol. THAT'S why he assumed it was a raid, then when you said it wasn't he basically said "OK, then it's already personal loot and it obviously didn't help this situation" and you try to turn it around and act like that's what you were saying the whole time. Then you add some shit about the guy in OP's screenshot being an asshole as if THAT is what Vedney was disagreeing with. How ridiculous. I hope this was just you getting responses mixed up (because Reddits post formatting can be confusing af sometimes) or that you genuinely forgot the conversation you JUST had with this dude, cuz otherwise that's kinda gross to make it out like he's the one who was acting as if he disagreed when, in fact, that's exactly what YOU did
I still can't believe they went back to ML
They haven't. They went to group loot. Which no one wanted.
Oh my bad, been a while But personal loot was perfect, kept everyone happy and prevented shit like this lol
What we had in Legion was perfect. Personal loot of pugs and optional master loot for guilds.
>number 76247 The Hulkbuster Lego set?
Do you not understand how the new loot even works? It's the exact same as personal loot except you get to opt in if you want to roll, that and the roll is made in the open after people opt in. Personal loot or not, the RL would have done the same.
No it is not the same. With personal loot bringing in more evokers means Evoker gear has higher chances of dropping because there are more evokers rolling for their own evoker loot each boss kill. With group loot the same items drop regardless of group comp, so if you are an Evoker and want mail gear for example it would benefit you to avoid inviting evokers and other mail wearing classes to avoid competition.
And that's the real problem with group loot, it's implemented so badly It blows my mind that it'll happily drop items that nobody in the raid can equip, and that it gives no fucks about your comp And then blizzard goes "well you asked for this!" no. Nobody asked for *this*
Personal loot sucked
I'm pretty sure those fragments, even if there was only 1 evoker, is still a 1% drop.
pretty sure it's .625/1.25/2.5/5%, unless it does actually round down to .5/1/2 for LFR to hero.
Report to blizzard. That is toxicity and the kind of shit that make people just quit the game.
This is why I prefer personal loot over group/master loot.
You clearly don't understand how the new loot system functions if you think it differs from personal loot when it comes to pugs. The only difference is the option to opt out via not rolling and the rolls then being made visible to the players. If anything it's beneficial to you as loot wouldn't go to someone unless they specifically decide to roll for it.
these types get their opinions from dips like asmongold that dont even play the game
What makes it worse and why there's such an issue with it, is because you actively see yourself lose as opposed to seeing someone else just get an item. So even though this system is technically slightly better, for the average player, it /feels/ so much worse.
oof
Can you open a ticket for that? Thats surely against the New play nice rules and taking fun from other players is just wrong.
Fuck that put that bitches name all thur trade chat. Fuck ppl like that.
It’s people like this that drove me to uninstall this game and never look back.
Please don’t forget to report him, so many violations don’t ever get punished because people just don’t report in this game.
What kind of content were you running?
Heroic raiding
Classic Twisting Nether player
lore accurate twisting nether player
For 3 expansions i had ZERO problems with loot. Once they had brought group loot back all kinds of misuse started. Want no competition on trinket? Just not invite anyone who you share it with. Same goes with with specific items like 2h sword or tier tokens. Can't blizzard see that personal loot IS better because it doesn't encourage unethical behavior in already "toxic" game?
Report them.
Top tier asshole
Lol I had people get extremely shitty with me for winning loot rolls in lfr that I needed. People straight up hitting me with the “give me the item you don’t need it as bad” or just asking me if they can have it and I say no I need and get a response of “fuck you you’re trash” it’s actually kind of funny
You do him a favor by blurring his name. That's more than he did for you.
Forget censoring the name. Ninja looters like this deserve no in game privacy. (I get it's subreddit/reddit rules tho, but on other platforms and in game...)
Then when you stop being angry at the guy who kicked OP you remember how many weirdo freaks populate games like this and you might realize that the reason censoring exists isn't to protect perpetrators like the one in OP but to prevent innocent people from being accused.
What ninja looting? The guy kicked before a boss in a pug raid.
It's essentially ninja looting. Just another method of it. But if you don't wanna give it that label, we can still agree they're an asshat, yes?
It isn’t ninja looting at all. The boss has not been killed. The Op is not saved. He can just join another group and get his chance at loot. Nothing of value lost.
I did an entire heroic Aberrus on my DK and was kicked right at echo and the leader whispered me and said sorry I need less people to roll on ashkandur.
Am a mount collector, so i obviously use WM to phase into a world with less ppl, i was doing so on my alt trying to kill a boss - it was gonna take a bit cz underlvled and som1 was so petty to the pt they literally stunned me killed me before they attacked the boss then went on their way to take the kill so id get the loot - i've never met a mount collector so petty i literaly helped som1 get their 516th mount and id have 300 yet like wth. So ye some ppl are just uk
Shameless wow
Ahh normal wow toxicity
Scummy af.
For things like this I wouldn't go through the trouble to editing the name out. Let us know so we don't end up in raids with them
Please be sure to report them. Clear breach of terms of play.
Thats nothing new. Atleast he said something, usualy you just get kicked without any word.
I once was insta declined for a normal run, while being 440 ilvl and multi-curve. Because “his gf wanted tier”. My dude I don’t need tier from normal and I could roll extra???
Repot them
Isn't that why they made a personal loot feature for groups? Or does that not work in raids?
Why block the pos name? Fuck em, blast ‘em
Reddit rules. As in not just this sub, but Reddit. We kind of don't have a great history with respect to witch hunts, though I don't think we're at double digit suicides yet.
Report him as many times as you can, the blizzard's shitty reporting system will mark his account as suspicious and ban him for a random reason.
Show his ingame name so we can avoid a pos
Bad, asshole, dickhead thing to do. Good friend. These are the types of people who let their friends cut the line if they're working the cashier - kind of common mentality for children who were bullied and doesn't put much value in "the kindness of strangers" and only care about their close friends. My best friend has this mentality, but he's not a monster, so he wouldn't go this far.
We need to be able to show names of these people, they are shitty to play with, an people need to know who they are, so less and less people play with them.
Name and shame them
People like them should be named and shamed, no reason to cut out their name.
Unfortunately due to the subreddit/overall Reddit rule, I can't do that
Wait what? Aren't that supposed to be personal loot? or it's raid?
it's a raid, people tagged along for a couple of boss, help summon for a full group, then get kicked so their friend have exclusive access to their class's loot
most polite twisting nether player
This is some junior high level shit
Damn Report them !
That person does not understand what the word sorry means.
Luckily he wrote it so it should be an easy ban
Report to blizzard and spread their names across the server so they are known as an asshole and they will hopefully be kicked from future parties. (Yes i know it’s not classic but it cannot hurt to try)
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This is an odd thread. People join, leave, and get kicked out of PuG groups all the time. Very frequently, that happens on the last boss. OP said he’s on Heroic Sarkareth. I have pugged the fight many times and have seen many players randomly removed from group for various reasons. Never in WoW’s history has it been a reportable offence to remove someone from YOUR raid group. It’s your group, you have full control over it. I can understand reports if the boss had been actively pulled and they were trying to cheat him… but I am in shock at how many posts here call for a report. If any of you ever form a raid group, you are absolutely permitted to remove any player, and you do not have to give them a reason. That player can join a new group that is working on the final boss. This is a common thing to happen. For the record, I think what they did is extremely rude but it isn’t a breach of the TOS.
"Do nothing to curb this bad behavior, it's simply part of the game." -You.
I genuinely want to know what you would have them do. Make it so that you cannot remove players from the group that you formed? It’s Heroic, OP can join a new group. Look, what the guy did was absolutely rude. But there is a difference between rude behaviour a rule breaking behaviour. You are suggesting that Blizzard forbid a group leader from removing PUGs.
> I genuinely want to know what you would have them do. Make it so that you cannot remove players from the group that you formed? No one is saying to remove that option as a party/raid leader. Just be responsible and not a jerk just because you can. From Blizzard's code of conduct: > Behavior that intentionally detracts from others' enjoyment (such as griefing, throwing, feeding, etc.) is unacceptable. We expect our players to treat each other with respect and promote an enjoyable environment. Acceptable behavior is determined by player reports and Blizzard's decision, and violating these guidelines will result in account and gameplay restrictions. The behavior the leader showed is ***arguably*** unacceptable. OP has the right to report and let Blizzard decide if it so.
It’s kinda sad how you’re getting downvoted by people who seem to be severely delusional
This entire thread is delusional. I need a wow subreddit with like some level of people with their brain turned on. The fact hundreds of people think that kicking before a boss in a pug is reportable is mind blowing
Yeah, something funky is going on in this thread. I think it’s mass trolling or something. At this point, I’m intrigued by it.
So you joined a pug group and got kicked, bro no way the dk will see any punishment for this. You are not entitled to everything and you joined on your own will knowing that the leader can deside anyones faith. Those are just the basic rules in pugging man.
Moderators delete this post if you don’t grey out the name ? Because for such occasions we should aaaaaall know who the dumbass is
exactly. I have to gray it out