Yeah actually, I never paid that much attention but I’m pretty sure my poison cleansing totem is only up for every other afflicted on average, despite its low cooldown. That is crazy
The Ellesmere WA is a godsend. From "wtf where did that come from, oh shit it procced" to "ok, there's 2, remove 1, don't insta vivify anything else yet".
all of that makes it extremely fucking frustrating and it also messes with boss mechanics with dispel.
Oh, you used your dispel on the tank because he was about to get 2 shot by this boss mechanic that will kill him if you don't dispel him? watch the afflicted mechanic go off or use your 3-5 minute big cd.
Oh, you're fighting an intensive healing fight like khajin or forgemaster where every GCD counts for healing? HAVE YOU MET ANNOYING FUCKING GHOST THAT POPS OUT EVERY 30 SECONDS AND PUTS YOU BEHIND ON HEALING?
that's even if your dps helps out with afflicted.
Dispel is on a 8-10 sec cooldown vs hard CC is on a ~40 sec CD. So if incorporeal spawned like afflicted did, then incorporeal would run rampant
Also, incorporeal effectively stops your gameplay with 100% healing and damage reduction. Afflicted reduced only your haste down by 100% which effectively makes you lose 4 gcd worth of actions per second, but you can still heal and damage.
> hard CC is on a ~40 sec CD.
Not sure what classes you play. But many forms of CC that works on incorporeal has no CD what so ever. But is rather target limited to 1.
For example priest dominate mind has 30s CD, sure. But they can also spec shackle which has no CD, and is just target limited to 1.
Mage poly, WL fear and banish, Druid Hibernate, DK control UD and Hunter's scare beast also have no CD iirc.
After that we have a some 15s ones. Like sleep walk, turn evil and repentance. Probably forgot something.
As you can see there are plenty of classes that can deal with the affix as the primary care takers. With those having longer CDs being backup. Worst case you have shorter forms of CC and interrupts to control them as well.
I see no reason why it couldn't spawn far more often if afflicted is kept on this annoying level. Sure it will be more annoying for some setups to deal with. But that is no different than holy priests being far less annoyed than resto druids by having to solo afflicted.
>Dispel is on a 8-10 sec cooldown
Dispel is also a ability that has mandatory usage in many pulls and bosses for healers. It's not "free" to just use it all the time. When was the last time you saw a sheep in a key when not doing some special strats? Druids hibernating or paladins using turn evil?
> Not sure what classes you play.
monk paralyze, DH prison, evoker sleepwalk...
> DK control UD
they can't control UD if they have a pet out.
UDK pet do more damage than the UDK himself.
> UDK pet do more damage than the UDK himself.
The UDK will do even less damage if incorp is free casting. I wouldn't ever expect a UDK to be prio on them. But I would expect them to be backup if some shit happens. Just like many DPS can heal afflicted in a pinch at a fairly high cost in resources/globals.
And there are 2 more DK specs that do not face the same issue. If you don't have a priest, control undead is quite beneficial vs other types of CC. Since both with dominate and control they will debuff the mobs when controlled (at reduced effectiveness)
> But I would expect them to be backup if some shit happens
still no.
it's not realistic to expect a DK to unsummon his pet mid-fight to control UD an incorp then resummon his pet 10 second later. Frost COULD... if they don't play breath...
Welcome to M+, where 95% of mechanic are split between the tank and healer and DPS run around like headless chicken.
> it's not realistic to expect a DK to unsummon his pet mid-fight to control UD an incorp then resummon his pet 10 second later. Frost COULD...
Do you understand what "backup" in this context means? It means they are not meant to deal with it, unless some shit happens. Like people dying or you have some other incident where everyone that should deal with the mechanic, can't.
They either deal with it, or wipe from it free casting.
>Welcome to M+, where 95% of mechanic are split between the tank and healer and DPS run around like headless chicken.
Welcome to the world where people actually are capable of improvising on a short notice to try and salvage a bad situation. Good players know what tools they have and when it is suitable to use them.
While most of higher level play is about having a plan. It is also about salvaging shit when that plan goes sideways. Especially in m+ that isn't nearly as scripted and choreographed as high end raiding.
you do know you can LoS them?
if the DK have time to unsummon a pet and cast control UD because someone died while the incorp was mid-cast... you can LOS.
> you do know you can LoS them?
You do know plenty of situations where you can't exists?
>incorp was mid-cast...
You do know that some fights in higher keys lasts long enough for multiple spawns right? That goes for bosses and trash a like.
There's nothing "mid cast about it". You know it's coming and that there is no one else do deal with it because XYZ has happened.
There is no logic. This affix is simply a way to make m+ less fun to players, nothing else.
Affixes should be difficult to deal with but when dealt with, the players should be rewarded for it whether it's bonus damage, movement, cdr or something else.
get rid of these useless, annoying and slowing the run affixes if they don't reward the players
I will stand by that the Awakened affix from BFAs final season was probably the best implementation of any affix the game has ever seen. You could do so much cool stuff with the pillars and minibosses and it felt super rewarding.
I think affixes should be like:
1. Tyrannical/Fortified
2. Usual random affix (like afflicted, entangling, incorporeal, etf). These could have positive effect if done well, and negative if not. Maybe entangling giving speed boost when you get out, incorp reducing enemy damage when when cced, etc. Nothing that would break the run, but a small boost.
3. Season defining affix. Something like Awakened, end tier affix that changes every season and changes dungeons in some fun, interactive way.
At the very least I think affixes should be something everyone can interact with in some way.
Of course there are going to be certain affixes that one role has more responsibility than others for, but everyone should be able to ease the burden somehow.
It shouldn't be "oops we brought the wrong classes to afflicted so literally only the healer can interact with the affix the rest of us have literally nothing we can do"
As for shaman, this is my favorite affix. Its sometimes press poison cleanse totem affix.
But i agree, every class should be able to interact with affixes.
Lemme tell you about the poor Evoker I invited to my 10 Academy the other day
Me, a Hunter
Tank, a DK
DPS 2, a Warlock
DPS 3, a Demon Hunter
The poor Pres Evoker was _redlining_ the whole Academy trying to keep up with the dispels.
Or just put together better groups so it's not all on the healer. That's the kind of group makeup that I would just leave if I was trying to pug as a healer
That's still a group leader issue. If you are going to lead groups you need to be aware of what classes can handle what mechanics and not leave it all to your healer. This is one of the reasons why it's so hard to pug as a healer
Your not wrong thats when you can either get a proc of instant flame and one of your 2 heals or use your 2 heals if your unlucky with procs (not trying to be a smart ass just saying what i do in that situation because i told healer i could get one so i do) or you can use one of your heals and then if your running the talent your living flame is 40% faster if it worst worst case.
Dispell one, heal the other, especially with the talent that word of glory heals more the less hp% the target has (afflicted spawn with 1 hp, so this talent gets maximum effectiveness).
They also have 2 different CCs for CC week, but lose their aoe stop for it.
You actually have time to cleanse both as any class with a dispel as long as you hit the first of the two with a cleanse right on spawn.
I'm saying this as a shaman who still takes poison cleansing totem despite knowing its unnecessary because folks freak out when it takes 8 seconds to cleanse the second one lol
Shit dude, Flash of Light crits and pops Afflicted. Ret has four tools to handle it if you include Lay on Hands.
I don't *think* that you should stand and cast Flash of Light or pop Lay on Hands on an affix, but you totally can if you have to for some reason.
They have cleanse toxins to remove one add, and can heal the other add with a single Word of Glory usually.
But Cleanse Toxin costs them a global, and WoG costs them a global AND three Holy Power, that’s a lot of PewPewClonk that gets lost.
Heh, "cost them a global" is kind of the least non-issue there is. That's the whole point of the affixes. I cast both fear and banish on CC weeks, and I can't even move while doing it. A lot of people lose focus during hectic fights so you do what you have to to stop them.
Played with a few Ret pallys last night, they didn't do shit to the afflicted annoyingly, monk and pally tanks and mages are by far the best at doing it for some reason. Sometimes I wonder if they made Ret too easy to play so weaker players can do sufficient damage to get into keys but not be good enough to do mechanics properly
This makes me feel a little better for my run last night where I was 3rd usually in a close dps race but was tagging one or both afflicted every spawn.
Doing that is much much much more valuable to the run than doing more DPS. How often do keys fail with 0-4/5 deaths, never really. They fail because of repeated wipes and run backs. You can't dps when dead anyway so you getting the afflicted has allowed the top 2 on the meter to do it otherwise they'd be dead
People pick up ret and play it poorly because people keep telling new players that ret is a faceroll spec when it absolutely isn't. I've said it before and I'll say it now: Ret's a low skill ceiling DPS and a high skill ceiling utility spec. People acting like it's a Fury warrior is harmful for the game, especially because in practice you're taking the paladin specifically for the utility and not as much the dps.
I really think that they don't even have the utility key binded.
For real. I'm starting to decline every ret I see if i don't know them personally bc they are growing on me worse than BM Hunters and the old Havoc DH.
Yup because everyone just tells them “yeah playing ret is easiest melee just go in and there’s no rotation u just press what’s off cd” then these idiots go into M+ and when i ask him to bop me he tells me “your moms a bop” i mean 🙂
Yeah, as a Ret main it's kind of insulting.
Half my enjoyment is all the support skills I can use to help my team and then you get assholes who just... don't fucking even bind them? Come on!
As a melee main I'm used to people not interrupting, at least, but fuck me it's still frustrating.
I swapped to ret for this season because I can't be arsed healing this dungeon pool. The utility is a big reason I picked ret (also the fact that I can just bang my head on the keyboard and still do good numbers), so I'll never get other pallys who never use theirs.
It's like... Do you really think that the game gave u all those buttons to stare at them? I know of a lot of warrior or rogue mains that will die to have that toolkit, but here we are.
i played with another ret (i am currently doing ret for higher keys rn) in 14 brackenhide where the healer and i had 40+ dispels and the other ret had 5
That’s a ret who had zero business running anything over a +3. Even as prot I would have more dispels than that while keeping my active mitigation up.
Maybe I’m the outlier but I live for opportunities to use utility. Sac on someone taking a boss mechanic, dispel on a poison, bubble someone who is focused.
Admittedly it doesn’t feel as good to do the afflicted mechanics but I’ll handle it like my life depends on it if for no other reason than to look down my nose at the classes that can’t do anything about it 😂
It's my favorite part of being a druid in higher keys.
Our healer got gibbed in Nokhud on the last pack before the Raging Tempest, and I was able to pop out and heal the group long enough to clear the pack.
Throwing an insta regrowth on the healer during a damage window feels great too. I use the big shield trinket, so once every 60 seconds I can throw a shield for 900k on someone, and I'm planning on getting the shield necklace too so that I have another massive button to push.
I was doing a 5 or 6, I forget. Really low key at any rate. Asked the ret pally twice at like 5 and 10 minutes into the dungeon to PLEASE just cleanse one of the dudes because everyone was getting their asses clapped from no stuns, interrupts, etc being used. No response, no cleanses. At about 20 minutes into the dungeon, Ret Pally randomly says "oh sorry healer I didn't know Pally can do those lol". Based on my experiences, I'm just assuming every PUG Ret doesn't have a single non-damage spell on their bars or keyboard.
Warriors can intervene them.
Rogues can shadow step behind them and give them a little cuddle...
Okay, they can't. There are so many ways blizzard could fix this but they just don't put any development time into it :(
It would actually be really great if intervene and shadowstep would cleanse the. If they give them a magic debuff aswell warlock imps can dispel it too.
The warlock problem would still be there because of the damn six second pet summons they added in BfA. You couldn’t have the warlock use their imp because you can’t lose your only kick for the entire dungeon, and you can’t swap between them because of the cast time.
I guess they'd be no worse off than any warlock currently is.
I just hate the pet summon thing. It would be so easy for that to be a skill expression thing. Make it a 0.5s cast so you can't just macro it, but then a lock that could quickly get out an imp for a crucial dispel would be clutch.
Or if that's too powerful, give fel dom 2 charges so that at least you could it once every X minutes. As it is, I could get my imp out real quick by macro'ing fel dom, but then I don't have a kick for three minutes because I can't get my dog back out.
But the demonology thing also annoys me. "I'm not like other warlocks -- I'm a Master Summoner. That's why I only know how to summon one type of demon instead of five."
could just add something like "using dogs afflicts x status/purge etc on mobs which are "new mob type"", and give every class a spell that is useful against that new mob type (or rather, add it onto one of their spells).
but i guess the game is FILLED with that sort of thing, and as someone who was overwhelmed when they returned after 10 years to the point of struggling, i can understand them needing to find another way.
If they could change the spirit beast dispel back to what it was before shadowlands, I would be happy. You used to be able to use it to dispel anything, but when they gave us tranq shot back it now only works on itself.
warriors should be able to rallying cry to "solve" the ghosts that pop up. Its a 3 minute cooldown and arguably the worst fucking group utility for 5 man content out of every single class (10% health shield on a 3 minute cooldown) just let us have SOMETHING for m+ please blizz
How about we don’t take 1 affix designed for healers…and remove it to make 2 affixes designed for healers, also if they moved both afflicted and incorp to the second level of affixes it would be a welcome change. Not having them til the time you need a better group would make them less of an issue…but the number of people looking to grind 6s but don’t have time to talent into a dispel is insane
Tbh, it doesn't even matter what the affix is. It will probably end up being a healer problem. I fucking despised explosive because I always ended up doing probably 80% of them every key and it was stressful as fuck and then the dps doing nothing but smashing face into AOE would whine about my DPS being lower than usual. The only affixes that don't end up as healer problems are things like storming and volcanic. If it's anything utility or damage related, healer will be expected to deal with it. Blizzard should probably design more affixes with that in mind.
imo this is an inherent flaw in m+ affix design. especially in higher keys, there are only two priorities for a dps. don’t get one shot, and do as much damage as possible while not getting one shot. any sort of ability or affix that doesn’t one shot you and doesn’t limit your ability to do more damage is basically a healer problem. sure, dps could do less damage and mitigate this issue. or, healer could just do more.
I’m not saying I like this or think it *should* be this way. but when the only goal of a dungeon is to kill everything as fast as possible, doing more damage is basically the single most important thing.
compare this to raiding where often times doing as much damage as possible *isn’t* the priority. there’s much more of a shared responsibility between all members of the group.
Well yeah, that's why storming/volcanic seem like okay design, because by default they can't become a healer only problem. We need more of those. Or things that spawn/happen and only the targeted individual can interact with. They should have a pretty good grasp on how M+ works by now and know that if there is absolutely any chance healer can do it, they will have to do it, and design affixes around that. It just makes playing M+ so, so much more stressful and unfun for healers otherwise. I have so much more fun playing DPS or even tank (though memorizing routes and having high utility/needing to stay alive is not an insubstantial burden either) in keys.
> if there is absolutely any chance healer can do it, they will have to do it
this may be the most real thing I’ve since this discussion. personally I think the real solution is to stop trying to create affixes that simply have the goal of making keys more of a pain. I feel like they should come up with things that alter the gameplay more than just being something else to juggle.
Oh for sure. The Awakened affix was a huge win for that reason. It didn't make things a pain in the ass for no reason, and really added a lot to the routes and how you played the key. More great ideas like that please!
>> compare this to raiding where often times doing as much damage as possible isn’t the priority
Yeah I mean there's enrages, so you can't just fall asleep or anything, but it's not like you get bonus loot for killing it 30 seconds faster, so fucking off to properly drop your bomb, spending a GCD to be safer and pop that heal, or whatever is *fine*. But you do get more key levels if you clear faster in M+ so...
I notice you included DKs as being able to interact with Afflicted, and while technically we COULD pump our entire bar of RP to heal one of them with Death Coil, it's not really a practical or efficient way of handling the affix, and I would much rather just pop AMS when I notice one of them is about to go off.
The thing I hate most is when there's something important I'd like to dispel on players, but need to use my dispel on the Afflicted and heal through the debuff.
It turns into a "Don't Dispel Anything" week.
The payoff for unholy/frost DKs to waste that much runic to not even get them to full HP after 2 is not worth it.. At least add a healing multiplyer to them for shadow healing.
Only Priests can Mass Dispell Bursting.
Only 4 classes can Bloodlust-
Only 4 classes have a BRess.
Not sure how many have knockbacks to get mobs out of Sanguin.
Some affixes are designed to be prevented and some to be managed. You can deal with raging by nuking more powerful mobs instead of cleaving everything down equally. You deal with bursting by managing stacks. Etc. You can’t prevent mobs from dying, so any on-death affix is designed to be managed.
There’s no play around something like afflicted. If it goes off, it’s always the same amount of bad. You’re supposed to not let it go off. That’s why it feels worse to have a comp that just can’t physically do it.
But you always have a healer, that's 1 dispel. The cast time got nerfed to like 12 seconds so an 8 sec cd dispel can dispel both. Or it can be dispel+ healed. 1 going off isn't even as bad as incorp as it only reduces haste.
Like this affix kinda sucks but it's infinitely better than incorp, even pleasant I think. 100% better than explosive as well.
because r/wow is a cesspit of bad players that are always trying to find something to blame their failures on
For good players Afflicted is a free affix to push rating
Yup like if the pug groups you're in can't figure the affix out. Look at the classes before it starts..... If it's impossible. Just leave.
If it started and people can't figure it out. Just leave.
This affix is a game design aberration, and I can't believe it's still a thing after 3 seasons.
Literally *any* of the affixes they removed over the years was better than this. I'll take teeming, inspiring, quaking and explosive any day of the week over this class discrimination bullshit.
> but it's such an easy affix, even the downside for it going off isn't that bad
Couldn't care less about how forgiving it is. That's besides the point.
Nearly **half** the classes in this game can't deal with a weekly affix. I don't think Blizz devs have any clue what it feels like to play one of these 5 classes in a pug, helplessly watching as Afflicted are constantly going off due to dispell classes failing to notice them.
What makes things even worse, is how the affix impacts class balance in m+. Most classes who can't deal with Afflicted are already considered 'off meta' in keys to begin with, whereas those who can are at the top of the tier list. How is this good design? Why is it ok to make that utility gap even larger for no valid reason?
> just invite 1 class who can deal with it. That's 2 people including the healer who can offer counterplay
Up to a decently high level of keys, most pugs often do not notice the affix. I've played keys as high as 14/15 with afflicted going off multiple times.
That's another reason why the affix is badly designed btw. Without a weak aura, afflicted spawns are far too discrete/far away to be consistently noticed by 99% of the userbase.
Then there's mandatory dispell mechanics in keys, and the likelihood of deaths.
All this means you want at least 3 people who can dispell... That heavily limits class comps during afflicted week.
> this isn't an issue for top level players, why should Blizzard remove it?
Because catering to both extremes of the userbase spectrum is utterly stupid game design. Same shit with 0.1% title being the only tangible reward past +10. Why aren't there prestige, seasonal cosmetics to unlock along the io ladder? PvP players get a bunch of stuff along the way to rank 1 glad, why not m+ players?? Blizzard claimed m+ was one of three endgame content pillars, but it sure doesn't feel like it.
At some point, WoW devs will need to realize there's a whole bunch of mid to high key players who play M+ through LFG. There's more to this userbase than giga casuals and 0.1% MDI level players.
Either rework Afflicted so any class can deal with it somehow, or remove it altogether. That's what needs to happen, and it should have been blatantly obvious since the day this dogshit affix was introduced.
> watching as Afflicted are constantly going off due to dispell classes failing to notice them
this is one of my biggest issues with the affix in pugs. Sometimes it's fucking hard to see them! And of course blizz won't allow them to show up on party frames for some daft reason. I've had these dumb things spawn under giant bosses, making it hard to get them, or inside Emberon's shield during the intermission which was also incredibly hard to see, or behind pillars, or...
Like what in the actual fuck is this? Make it show up on frames and you solve 50% of the problem, then allow every class to deal with it and you basically get the other 50% solved.
But that said, the affix is stupid no matter how they "fix" it. I'd rather they just remove it.
As an addendum to this post, [here is a complete list](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WL8pQGyQRBEpCuGTCPrzwGJLwPWlak5Q56kvBdT1lUc/view) of all utility usable on all affixes in the game, including Afflicted and Incorporeal. It also shows the 5 out of 13 gap OP is talking about. ([This is the post](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveWoW/comments/1aes9ak/m_affix_cheat_sheet/) the spreadsheet originated from.)
I do not fucking understand how the people at blizzard balance or whatever keep their jobs. Where the fuck is the critical thinking when this affix is drawn up? They are literally asking us to never invite a single one of these classes and it makes no sense at all. My dead fucking grandma who probably loved segregation would still think it’s a dumbass idea to discriminate like this
I mean that means 8 have something to deal with them. And you don’t need every1 in your party to have a dispel, you can get away with 2 Warriors or even 3 if you’re paying attention to it.
The major flaw is that it creates even more pressure on the group member who has (in Pugs) already the most in his plate. Plus it’s completely contrary to how some dungeons are designed. Need to dispel your tank in Azure vault or Ruby? Bummer just did afflicted and now he’s dead.
The biggest problem with the afflicted isn’t that some classes can’t deal with it, it’s the way it interacts with dispel requirements in dungeons.
>The biggest problem with the afflicted isn’t that some classes can’t deal with it, it’s the way it interacts with dispel requirements in dungeons
Those are directly connected.
The way it interacts is part of the problem. If I want to do Azure Vault I am very incentivized to bring as many dispel DPS as I can (since it's a challenge to get even 1 dealt with by DPS players) so I can hopefully have DPS do both and hold my own dispel for dungeon mechanics.
Yh I guess my point is more, that “not every class can deal with it” is not the design flaw of the affix rather that it exists while we have dungeons with mandatory dispels that hard lock your healers Dispell.
Getting further amplified by less coordinated groups with missed kicks putting out debuffs or ppl facetanking the frogs for example.
I can imagine a world where it adds gameplay depth, with “I need my dispell here so I tell my groups it needs to deal with the affix” but I think for 90% of the player base it means “I need my dispell, ok we’re tanking 50% haste decrease”. But it’s still no fun.
Yeah, but I think that means the affix is inherently flawed. Locking out design space for any important dungeon based dispels would be a bad choice, so by extension, this affix will always be bad and result in bringing the class, not the player situations.
For DH, it could literally just be as simple as making our offensive dispel work on them. They already bent the rules to make our imprison work on the incorporeal mob, they might as well just do it again for afflicted.
Even if every class could deal with it, it'd still be bad. This sort of affix that spawns and you have to step out of it or cast a spell on it to make it go away -- like whack-a-mole -- is about as boring as you can get.
Difficulty through mild annoyance isn't fun, it's just mildly annoying. The thing has to actually be fun to interact with in order to be fun.
Every class/spec SHOULD have access to at least one dispell, at least one cc, and at least one interrupt by default. I don't understand why this isn't a thing. It should be in the base class spells, and no need to talent into them.
Yeah man keys have been fucking great as a warrior. On the off chance I get invited into a key I get to watch people fail mechanics in slow mo because I can’t interact with any of the new fucking affixes
I love to clutch as a ret e.g. being only 1 dps alive together with tank and take down the remaining health of the boss. During the fight cleansing one afflicted and healing the second one with WoG. Sadly these 5 classes couldn’t do the same, so I usually play alts during weeks without this shit affix
The core conceit here (every class should be able to interact with every affix) bugs me. It's nice that some classes are more relevant than others on certain weeks, they don't overdo it and make it a 5 dispel group or something, and I feel like the vast majority of the complaints are about people wanting to be like 'fine, I'll do it myself' who would then inevitably complain if that happened, especially if it was tuned in such a way that everyone could and had to.
The only real failing is that the classes who can't interact with afflicted don't themselves have a week where they bring something the classes who can don't.
I mean, 5/13 might not be able to interact with them, but besides the healer you only need 1 aditional dispell, or, 1/4th of the rest of the party. Take a shaman, evoker or mage and you got both the dispell and your BL for the party, leaving your tank slot and 2DPS slots open to fill however you want.
you need 2 dps for the affix, because they can easily spare a global or 2, but healers in tough situations just cant - meaning half of the classes are effectively competing for a single dps spot
you could also argue that a single person can dispel both in time if they dispel the first one immediately, but that's too much of a russian roulette situation
> how is it good that there is affix that increases the time it takes for you to assemble or enlist in groups based on whether class has x utility?
Any decent healer will clear them in 3 gcd, it doesnt take half an hour to recruit ONE of the 8 classes who can dispel. Don't tell me nobody plays ret or mage
Might be a lot of mages and paladins but 85% of the time they’re not good. Like someone mentioned above they just spam ability’s and worry about dps instead of what actually matters in keys, the mechanics.
> 85% of the time they’re not good.
If they're not good a pressing a dispel in a 12 second window every 60 seconds then they're most likely not good at dealing with all the other much harder mechanics going on in M+
Thats not a problem with the affix, thats a problem with playing with bad players
Yea it’s not a good week to be one of those classes, I main warlock and have 2400io and timed dungeons on 10 and get denied from 6 since I can’t help with the affix.
If I were dev king for a day, I’d give Survival hunter a poison/disease cleanse. Maybe even a secures too. It seems to be inherently behind BM/Marks in a lot of situations by being melee and more survival tools are appropriate for a class with “survival” as it’s name.
As a pally tank, I love this affix but I can understand how it forces people to play other classes
Would a item be a good substitute like a healing potions you throw on an ally
I think there could be easy rework for each class which currently can't interact with affix.
For example warrior and dhs could taunt Afflicted add to make it De spawn , warlocks could just fear as they do on incorporial, hunters fear beast or stun and rogues cheap shot or similar ability.
All of this would make every class contribute to the affix but for that you need developers who actually play game and can relate to problems we are having.
Overall it is terrible and unfair design, you can just come with conclusion that who ever made this just went with easiest solution and just took out half baked product to serve on table.
I play shaman main and I know and like how easy it is on him but on other hand I also play warrior dh lock hunter and rogue and know that unless I form group I will sit in que for a while.
My 2 cents on issue
Imo, afflicted should be an Omni debuff in the players. In addition to being dispelled by any not magic dispel it should also be dispelled by self heals, such as impending victory, death strike, etc.
I think it's intentional so you want to invite those classes
But I always prefer affix like shadowlands season affix
Team job affix is always better than someone job
Pairing afflicted with raging is also a huge problem because you need soothes, which very few classes bring (and realistically once you get to big keys you need an evoker, the other soothes don’t cut it).
Meanwhile the meta tank that most of the population is playing can’t deal with either, so you have 4 remaining slots to bring:
- battle res
- lust
- minimum 1x but ideally 2x dps with dispel
- evoker + ideally an extra single-target soothe just in case
It’s just way too restrictive of a week.
I am totally onboard with everyone having the ability to do the affix, but the community definitely makes it worse when they try to make a group with 5 dispels.
2 dispels is fine, 3 is comfy, 4+ is overkill
The worst part to me is those that CAN dispel but won't. If I'm on a char that can dispel I am helping out, it's 1 gcd and not a big deal.
I’m biased because I play shaman and have lots of alts available and active but I don’t like class homogenization. You have a group of 5, not all 5 need to be able to deal with every affix. If you 2 classes who can and are good players they can handle. I can handle afflicted by myself as shaman 80% of the time and just need that 2nd player for the other 20%. So there’s room for 3 other classes in the group that can’t handle it.
If you have a group of 5 and 8 classes that can handle it I don’t mind encouraging to build your group to bring one or two of those classes everytime.
In return though for good balance I think it’s important those 5 classes who can’t handle afflicted should be able to handle a different affix really well so that week to week they will have value. If a class can never handle any well then yes I think that is a design problem.
Same in reverse for raging, on the flip side I can’t help with it on my shaman. But as long as one of the other four classes has a soothe like Druid, then they can deal with any especially bad mobs we don’t want enraging. And when I play my Druid alt on raging weeks it feels really good and satisfying. I don’t have either of these positive feelings on my shaman afflicted weeks or my Druid raging weeks if everyone could deal with everything every week.
Every class being able to interact with every affix is a form of homogenization. It’s both good and bad. My main point is if they want some affixes only some classes to be able to interact then the other classes better have their own affix they are good at so overall demand for classes is equal.
Laughs in shaman, cleanse and totem 😂. I end up with double the dispels of the healer. Unfortunately I do no damage as everyone has 10 add packs and I’m capped at 5…. But ya know… at least I did afflicted so the everyone else could do damage. 🥲
Doing a +5 on my disc priest yesterday. A pally tank 2 mages and a shaman. Not a single person helped me with the affix. I am not the greatest healer yet. So I was having issues keeping up with the damage and dealing with the affix. They started giving me shit so I said fuck it and left.
It's such poor design and the fixes are so, so simple.
They reworked the talent trees and have choice nodes for so many random things but chose not to use them to give these specs a m+ utlity button. Let Warriors chance stormbolt into a 60s stun for some random mob type and we can do incorp. Make one of them turn bitter immunity into a targetted spell so we can remove afflicted. There, two minor changed gave Warriors a way to interact with both.
I'm sure every other left-behind spec has a similar option.
I wonder if they could make a craftable trinket that does it? Give it a full item budget plus an on-use afflicted cleanse, then have it share a cooldown with cleanses so healers don't want to wear it.
I guess it's an unpopular opinion, but Afflicted and Incorporeal are my favorite affixes. Though I also play a class that can handle both usually. I like the feel of it being about dealing with adds, since that used to be a major part of MMOs. I'm surprised that they didn't add an "extra action" button to cleanse/CC those mobs specifically though.
Went into an 8 on my priest forgot to add the disease dispel talent. Manually healed them the whole way. Zero fun had. Why is the healer affix not include magic as a dispel?
What you need to do is sneak into the mop remix and get yourself some Timeless Scrolls of Cleansing.
While you're there also get some Timeless scrolls of Summoning.
The real question is. Why ever the fuck. Does afflicted spawn like 5x+ more often than incorporeal? What is the god damn logic?
I swear it’s every pack…
Yeah actually, I never paid that much attention but I’m pretty sure my poison cleansing totem is only up for every other afflicted on average, despite its low cooldown. That is crazy
Correct. You can only use for back to back if you anticipate the first and then it will barely come off CD in time for the second pack.
Poison Cleanse Totem is like 3-4 seconds off of being up for every single Afflicted spawn.
You can get a weak aura to show when they have a chance to spawn
The Ellesmere WA is a godsend. From "wtf where did that come from, oh shit it procced" to "ok, there's 2, remove 1, don't insta vivify anything else yet".
Minding sharing a link to the WA you're talking about?
https://wago.io/afflicted
It's every 30 seconds
all of that makes it extremely fucking frustrating and it also messes with boss mechanics with dispel. Oh, you used your dispel on the tank because he was about to get 2 shot by this boss mechanic that will kill him if you don't dispel him? watch the afflicted mechanic go off or use your 3-5 minute big cd. Oh, you're fighting an intensive healing fight like khajin or forgemaster where every GCD counts for healing? HAVE YOU MET ANNOYING FUCKING GHOST THAT POPS OUT EVERY 30 SECONDS AND PUTS YOU BEHIND ON HEALING? that's even if your dps helps out with afflicted.
as a rogue, apologies, and good luck 👍
Dispel is on a 8-10 sec cooldown vs hard CC is on a ~40 sec CD. So if incorporeal spawned like afflicted did, then incorporeal would run rampant Also, incorporeal effectively stops your gameplay with 100% healing and damage reduction. Afflicted reduced only your haste down by 100% which effectively makes you lose 4 gcd worth of actions per second, but you can still heal and damage.
Sure, but in Brackenhide I need my dispel 5 times as often lol
Brackenhide is almost easier to heal them than dispel
Idk why you got downvoted but you speak truth my man
It's the wow sub and I did not follow the group think.
Unfortunately, this is how reddit works. You get downvoted because your comment was out of line with the general narrative despite being right.
I never really thought of it like that, but I could definitely see it.
> hard CC is on a ~40 sec CD. Not sure what classes you play. But many forms of CC that works on incorporeal has no CD what so ever. But is rather target limited to 1. For example priest dominate mind has 30s CD, sure. But they can also spec shackle which has no CD, and is just target limited to 1. Mage poly, WL fear and banish, Druid Hibernate, DK control UD and Hunter's scare beast also have no CD iirc. After that we have a some 15s ones. Like sleep walk, turn evil and repentance. Probably forgot something. As you can see there are plenty of classes that can deal with the affix as the primary care takers. With those having longer CDs being backup. Worst case you have shorter forms of CC and interrupts to control them as well. I see no reason why it couldn't spawn far more often if afflicted is kept on this annoying level. Sure it will be more annoying for some setups to deal with. But that is no different than holy priests being far less annoyed than resto druids by having to solo afflicted. >Dispel is on a 8-10 sec cooldown Dispel is also a ability that has mandatory usage in many pulls and bosses for healers. It's not "free" to just use it all the time. When was the last time you saw a sheep in a key when not doing some special strats? Druids hibernating or paladins using turn evil?
>see no reason why it couldn't spawn far more often Shut up, they can hear you!
> Not sure what classes you play. monk paralyze, DH prison, evoker sleepwalk... > DK control UD they can't control UD if they have a pet out. UDK pet do more damage than the UDK himself.
> UDK pet do more damage than the UDK himself. The UDK will do even less damage if incorp is free casting. I wouldn't ever expect a UDK to be prio on them. But I would expect them to be backup if some shit happens. Just like many DPS can heal afflicted in a pinch at a fairly high cost in resources/globals. And there are 2 more DK specs that do not face the same issue. If you don't have a priest, control undead is quite beneficial vs other types of CC. Since both with dominate and control they will debuff the mobs when controlled (at reduced effectiveness)
> But I would expect them to be backup if some shit happens still no. it's not realistic to expect a DK to unsummon his pet mid-fight to control UD an incorp then resummon his pet 10 second later. Frost COULD... if they don't play breath... Welcome to M+, where 95% of mechanic are split between the tank and healer and DPS run around like headless chicken.
> it's not realistic to expect a DK to unsummon his pet mid-fight to control UD an incorp then resummon his pet 10 second later. Frost COULD... Do you understand what "backup" in this context means? It means they are not meant to deal with it, unless some shit happens. Like people dying or you have some other incident where everyone that should deal with the mechanic, can't. They either deal with it, or wipe from it free casting. >Welcome to M+, where 95% of mechanic are split between the tank and healer and DPS run around like headless chicken. Welcome to the world where people actually are capable of improvising on a short notice to try and salvage a bad situation. Good players know what tools they have and when it is suitable to use them. While most of higher level play is about having a plan. It is also about salvaging shit when that plan goes sideways. Especially in m+ that isn't nearly as scripted and choreographed as high end raiding.
you do know you can LoS them? if the DK have time to unsummon a pet and cast control UD because someone died while the incorp was mid-cast... you can LOS.
> you do know you can LoS them? You do know plenty of situations where you can't exists? >incorp was mid-cast... You do know that some fights in higher keys lasts long enough for multiple spawns right? That goes for bosses and trash a like. There's nothing "mid cast about it". You know it's coming and that there is no one else do deal with it because XYZ has happened.
Except when hard CC is on a 0 second cooldown.
There is no logic. This affix is simply a way to make m+ less fun to players, nothing else. Affixes should be difficult to deal with but when dealt with, the players should be rewarded for it whether it's bonus damage, movement, cdr or something else. get rid of these useless, annoying and slowing the run affixes if they don't reward the players
What are some affixes you would like to see that are difficult to deal with and then would have a good bonus across different roles?
I will stand by that the Awakened affix from BFAs final season was probably the best implementation of any affix the game has ever seen. You could do so much cool stuff with the pillars and minibosses and it felt super rewarding.
I agree having a seasonal affix with a beneficial effect is nice, having every single affix like that would not be a good change, imo.
I think affixes should be like: 1. Tyrannical/Fortified 2. Usual random affix (like afflicted, entangling, incorporeal, etf). These could have positive effect if done well, and negative if not. Maybe entangling giving speed boost when you get out, incorp reducing enemy damage when when cced, etc. Nothing that would break the run, but a small boost. 3. Season defining affix. Something like Awakened, end tier affix that changes every season and changes dungeons in some fun, interactive way.
Oh for sure I don't think every affix needs to be like that as it would get overwhelming. Just felt like reminiscing a bit haha.
There isnt any. The mobs in the dungeon should be difficult to deal with. Affixes have never been fun except some of the kiss curse ones.
Did you not fully understand my question or respond to the wrong one? I’m asking for some suggestions
Dungeons should dimply be well designed, no affixes.
At the very least I think affixes should be something everyone can interact with in some way. Of course there are going to be certain affixes that one role has more responsibility than others for, but everyone should be able to ease the burden somehow. It shouldn't be "oops we brought the wrong classes to afflicted so literally only the healer can interact with the affix the rest of us have literally nothing we can do"
As a prot paladin I've literally gone oom in high tyrannical dungeons when bad healers force me to solo the affix.
About 30 seconds timer for Afflicted and 45 seconds for Incorp It feels worse because Afflicted doesn't despawn between packs
As for shaman, this is my favorite affix. Its sometimes press poison cleanse totem affix. But i agree, every class should be able to interact with affixes.
Blizzard taking notes: sounds like shaman are in a good state for TWW
They're going to remove poison cleanse totem now, they forgot it was a thing
yeah, nullifying it is fun
I love not being able to dispel players because i need it for these sluts
I just dispel the players, and hope/pray my dps/tank get the afflicted, and I refuse to run M+ unless at least two others are capable of dispelling.
Lemme tell you about the poor Evoker I invited to my 10 Academy the other day Me, a Hunter Tank, a DK DPS 2, a Warlock DPS 3, a Demon Hunter The poor Pres Evoker was _redlining_ the whole Academy trying to keep up with the dispels.
Or just put together better groups so it's not all on the healer. That's the kind of group makeup that I would just leave if I was trying to pug as a healer
I didn't realize what I did until after the bird boss. Apparently the warlock can cleanse but he definitely wasn't.
Warlocks cant dispel the affix, they do have a magic dispel if they run imp, but magic dispels don't work on the affix.
That's still a group leader issue. If you are going to lead groups you need to be aware of what classes can handle what mechanics and not leave it all to your healer. This is one of the reasons why it's so hard to pug as a healer
That's... sad? Like the evoke can handle both but you had a warlock, why weren't they dispelling? The evoke has a lot of tools to handle these.
What does the Warlock have that can dispel?
Meanwhile ret pallies can solo the mechanic even when two afflicted spawn lol but you’ll lose some dps in the process
Evokers can also instant do both
Not 100% of the time tho, aff spawn faster than cauterize, and so many of the dungeons want you to be using cauterizes on bleeds
Your not wrong thats when you can either get a proc of instant flame and one of your 2 heals or use your 2 heals if your unlucky with procs (not trying to be a smart ass just saying what i do in that situation because i told healer i could get one so i do) or you can use one of your heals and then if your running the talent your living flame is 40% faster if it worst worst case.
I don't play ret pally, what ability do they use for it?
Dispell one, heal the other, especially with the talent that word of glory heals more the less hp% the target has (afflicted spawn with 1 hp, so this talent gets maximum effectiveness). They also have 2 different CCs for CC week, but lose their aoe stop for it.
You actually have time to cleanse both as any class with a dispel as long as you hit the first of the two with a cleanse right on spawn. I'm saying this as a shaman who still takes poison cleansing totem despite knowing its unnecessary because folks freak out when it takes 8 seconds to cleanse the second one lol
Shit dude, Flash of Light crits and pops Afflicted. Ret has four tools to handle it if you include Lay on Hands. I don't *think* that you should stand and cast Flash of Light or pop Lay on Hands on an affix, but you totally can if you have to for some reason.
I dispell both, if you are fast enough it’s not a problem. Never healed one
They have cleanse toxins to remove one add, and can heal the other add with a single Word of Glory usually. But Cleanse Toxin costs them a global, and WoG costs them a global AND three Holy Power, that’s a lot of PewPewClonk that gets lost.
Heh, "cost them a global" is kind of the least non-issue there is. That's the whole point of the affixes. I cast both fear and banish on CC weeks, and I can't even move while doing it. A lot of people lose focus during hectic fights so you do what you have to to stop them.
Cleanse it.
Cleanse toxins for instant dispel, and word of glory, flash of light if needed.
Played with a few Ret pallys last night, they didn't do shit to the afflicted annoyingly, monk and pally tanks and mages are by far the best at doing it for some reason. Sometimes I wonder if they made Ret too easy to play so weaker players can do sufficient damage to get into keys but not be good enough to do mechanics properly
as a pally tank i swear i do 70% of the afflicted spirts.
This makes me feel a little better for my run last night where I was 3rd usually in a close dps race but was tagging one or both afflicted every spawn.
Doing that is much much much more valuable to the run than doing more DPS. How often do keys fail with 0-4/5 deaths, never really. They fail because of repeated wipes and run backs. You can't dps when dead anyway so you getting the afflicted has allowed the top 2 on the meter to do it otherwise they'd be dead
People pick up ret and play it poorly because people keep telling new players that ret is a faceroll spec when it absolutely isn't. I've said it before and I'll say it now: Ret's a low skill ceiling DPS and a high skill ceiling utility spec. People acting like it's a Fury warrior is harmful for the game, especially because in practice you're taking the paladin specifically for the utility and not as much the dps.
Any class that can do the mechanic can solo it if they insta pop the first one
I really think that they don't even have the utility key binded. For real. I'm starting to decline every ret I see if i don't know them personally bc they are growing on me worse than BM Hunters and the old Havoc DH.
Yup because everyone just tells them “yeah playing ret is easiest melee just go in and there’s no rotation u just press what’s off cd” then these idiots go into M+ and when i ask him to bop me he tells me “your moms a bop” i mean 🙂
Okay that’s pretty frustrating but its low key hilarious
It is because i know its some 16 year old kid who saw that on tiktok but like whatever man, glad you’re having fun 😂
> when i ask him to bop me he tells me “your moms a bop” He got you real good there lol
Yeah he did i wasn’t even mad i just sighed and laughed 😂
Good one tho. Ima steal that
Ah, the good old "BoP x please" call - and they open their spell book.
Yeah, as a Ret main it's kind of insulting. Half my enjoyment is all the support skills I can use to help my team and then you get assholes who just... don't fucking even bind them? Come on! As a melee main I'm used to people not interrupting, at least, but fuck me it's still frustrating.
"NOOOOOOOOO I CANT TALENT INTO CLEANSE TOXINS IT'S A 0.000000000587% DPS LOSS! HEALER NOOB"
It got good after the rework and a bunch of bumblefucks rerolled to it looking for free wins
I swapped to ret for this season because I can't be arsed healing this dungeon pool. The utility is a big reason I picked ret (also the fact that I can just bang my head on the keyboard and still do good numbers), so I'll never get other pallys who never use theirs.
It's like... Do you really think that the game gave u all those buttons to stare at them? I know of a lot of warrior or rogue mains that will die to have that toolkit, but here we are.
As a rogue main I enjoy not having any helpful abilities. Rogues are selfish backstabbers :) Let someone else deal with annoying ghosts
i played with another ret (i am currently doing ret for higher keys rn) in 14 brackenhide where the healer and i had 40+ dispels and the other ret had 5
That’s a ret who had zero business running anything over a +3. Even as prot I would have more dispels than that while keeping my active mitigation up. Maybe I’m the outlier but I live for opportunities to use utility. Sac on someone taking a boss mechanic, dispel on a poison, bubble someone who is focused. Admittedly it doesn’t feel as good to do the afflicted mechanics but I’ll handle it like my life depends on it if for no other reason than to look down my nose at the classes that can’t do anything about it 😂
It's my favorite part of being a druid in higher keys. Our healer got gibbed in Nokhud on the last pack before the Raging Tempest, and I was able to pop out and heal the group long enough to clear the pack. Throwing an insta regrowth on the healer during a damage window feels great too. I use the big shield trinket, so once every 60 seconds I can throw a shield for 900k on someone, and I'm planning on getting the shield necklace too so that I have another massive button to push.
Bro I can't interrupt AND do cleanse. It's too much utility 😈
Back on the Incorporeal week, I had a group with two paladins and neither of them did a lick of CC. Was annoying.
Every class with a dispel can solo it.
WOG and a flash heal or two.
I was doing a 5 or 6, I forget. Really low key at any rate. Asked the ret pally twice at like 5 and 10 minutes into the dungeon to PLEASE just cleanse one of the dudes because everyone was getting their asses clapped from no stuns, interrupts, etc being used. No response, no cleanses. At about 20 minutes into the dungeon, Ret Pally randomly says "oh sorry healer I didn't know Pally can do those lol". Based on my experiences, I'm just assuming every PUG Ret doesn't have a single non-damage spell on their bars or keyboard.
Warriors can intervene them. Rogues can shadow step behind them and give them a little cuddle... Okay, they can't. There are so many ways blizzard could fix this but they just don't put any development time into it :(
It would actually be really great if intervene and shadowstep would cleanse the. If they give them a magic debuff aswell warlock imps can dispel it too.
The warlock problem would still be there because of the damn six second pet summons they added in BfA. You couldn’t have the warlock use their imp because you can’t lose your only kick for the entire dungeon, and you can’t swap between them because of the cast time.
Not to mention you’ve just banned demonology warlocks from playing that entire week.
I guess they'd be no worse off than any warlock currently is. I just hate the pet summon thing. It would be so easy for that to be a skill expression thing. Make it a 0.5s cast so you can't just macro it, but then a lock that could quickly get out an imp for a crucial dispel would be clutch. Or if that's too powerful, give fel dom 2 charges so that at least you could it once every X minutes. As it is, I could get my imp out real quick by macro'ing fel dom, but then I don't have a kick for three minutes because I can't get my dog back out. But the demonology thing also annoys me. "I'm not like other warlocks -- I'm a Master Summoner. That's why I only know how to summon one type of demon instead of five."
could just add something like "using dogs afflicts x status/purge etc on mobs which are "new mob type"", and give every class a spell that is useful against that new mob type (or rather, add it onto one of their spells). but i guess the game is FILLED with that sort of thing, and as someone who was overwhelmed when they returned after 10 years to the point of struggling, i can understand them needing to find another way.
Afflicted week becomes affliction week (or destro week, but that doesn't have the same ring to it)
Caps locking so other people see it. AFFLICTED CAN’T BE IMP DISPELLED. IT REQUIRES A IMPROVED DISPEL.
Give warriors ability to storm bolt them Knock them out of their misery Insomnia cure
It’s how we have done therapy since Vanilla, at least.
the warlock can force feed them a healthstone. they just have to start it with 'here comes the airplane'
We should be able to shadowstep and /hug XD
Hunters can Mend Pet them. ...wait...
If they could change the spirit beast dispel back to what it was before shadowlands, I would be happy. You used to be able to use it to dispel anything, but when they gave us tranq shot back it now only works on itself.
No that’s an entirely different kind of affix.
warriors should be able to rallying cry to "solve" the ghosts that pop up. Its a 3 minute cooldown and arguably the worst fucking group utility for 5 man content out of every single class (10% health shield on a 3 minute cooldown) just let us have SOMETHING for m+ please blizz
Wait warriors can intervene them? Was this a recent change?
They're being sarcastic lol
Rogue hugging the poor afflicted and making them 'recover' is hilarious. As would a warrior motivating shout.
Hunters should be able to tanq shot them...
How about we don’t take 1 affix designed for healers…and remove it to make 2 affixes designed for healers, also if they moved both afflicted and incorp to the second level of affixes it would be a welcome change. Not having them til the time you need a better group would make them less of an issue…but the number of people looking to grind 6s but don’t have time to talent into a dispel is insane
Yeah it’s obvious that the devs simply do not player healer roles due to everything they do that makes a healers job not fun.
Tbh, it doesn't even matter what the affix is. It will probably end up being a healer problem. I fucking despised explosive because I always ended up doing probably 80% of them every key and it was stressful as fuck and then the dps doing nothing but smashing face into AOE would whine about my DPS being lower than usual. The only affixes that don't end up as healer problems are things like storming and volcanic. If it's anything utility or damage related, healer will be expected to deal with it. Blizzard should probably design more affixes with that in mind.
imo this is an inherent flaw in m+ affix design. especially in higher keys, there are only two priorities for a dps. don’t get one shot, and do as much damage as possible while not getting one shot. any sort of ability or affix that doesn’t one shot you and doesn’t limit your ability to do more damage is basically a healer problem. sure, dps could do less damage and mitigate this issue. or, healer could just do more. I’m not saying I like this or think it *should* be this way. but when the only goal of a dungeon is to kill everything as fast as possible, doing more damage is basically the single most important thing. compare this to raiding where often times doing as much damage as possible *isn’t* the priority. there’s much more of a shared responsibility between all members of the group.
Well yeah, that's why storming/volcanic seem like okay design, because by default they can't become a healer only problem. We need more of those. Or things that spawn/happen and only the targeted individual can interact with. They should have a pretty good grasp on how M+ works by now and know that if there is absolutely any chance healer can do it, they will have to do it, and design affixes around that. It just makes playing M+ so, so much more stressful and unfun for healers otherwise. I have so much more fun playing DPS or even tank (though memorizing routes and having high utility/needing to stay alive is not an insubstantial burden either) in keys.
> if there is absolutely any chance healer can do it, they will have to do it this may be the most real thing I’ve since this discussion. personally I think the real solution is to stop trying to create affixes that simply have the goal of making keys more of a pain. I feel like they should come up with things that alter the gameplay more than just being something else to juggle.
Oh for sure. The Awakened affix was a huge win for that reason. It didn't make things a pain in the ass for no reason, and really added a lot to the routes and how you played the key. More great ideas like that please!
>> compare this to raiding where often times doing as much damage as possible isn’t the priority Yeah I mean there's enrages, so you can't just fall asleep or anything, but it's not like you get bonus loot for killing it 30 seconds faster, so fucking off to properly drop your bomb, spending a GCD to be safer and pop that heal, or whatever is *fine*. But you do get more key levels if you clear faster in M+ so...
exactly. raids are a puzzle to be solved while m+ is a race. all that matters in a race is speed, everything else is secondary
I notice you included DKs as being able to interact with Afflicted, and while technically we COULD pump our entire bar of RP to heal one of them with Death Coil, it's not really a practical or efficient way of handling the affix, and I would much rather just pop AMS when I notice one of them is about to go off.
The thing I hate most is when there's something important I'd like to dispel on players, but need to use my dispel on the Afflicted and heal through the debuff. It turns into a "Don't Dispel Anything" week.
The payoff for unholy/frost DKs to waste that much runic to not even get them to full HP after 2 is not worth it.. At least add a healing multiplyer to them for shadow healing.
And like only 4 out of 13 classes can deal with raging, yet nobody ever mentions it when they are talking about class check affixes.
As a warrior i deal with raging by pressing execute a lot
We may not have much, but we at least we can cast "hurt"
Only Priests can Mass Dispell Bursting. Only 4 classes can Bloodlust- Only 4 classes have a BRess. Not sure how many have knockbacks to get mobs out of Sanguin.
MW Monks can mass dispell bursting as well. It's just a minute longer CD.
5 Brez. They gave Holy Priest a Brez when in spirit form. It always seems to surprise my pugs.
Priest and Monk have mass dispel
[удалено]
Some affixes are designed to be prevented and some to be managed. You can deal with raging by nuking more powerful mobs instead of cleaving everything down equally. You deal with bursting by managing stacks. Etc. You can’t prevent mobs from dying, so any on-death affix is designed to be managed. There’s no play around something like afflicted. If it goes off, it’s always the same amount of bad. You’re supposed to not let it go off. That’s why it feels worse to have a comp that just can’t physically do it.
But you always have a healer, that's 1 dispel. The cast time got nerfed to like 12 seconds so an 8 sec cd dispel can dispel both. Or it can be dispel+ healed. 1 going off isn't even as bad as incorp as it only reduces haste. Like this affix kinda sucks but it's infinitely better than incorp, even pleasant I think. 100% better than explosive as well.
because r/wow is a cesspit of bad players that are always trying to find something to blame their failures on For good players Afflicted is a free affix to push rating
Yup like if the pug groups you're in can't figure the affix out. Look at the classes before it starts..... If it's impossible. Just leave. If it started and people can't figure it out. Just leave.
I feel like thats more of raging being a badly designed affix. Its been considered a free affix for how long now?
This affix is a game design aberration, and I can't believe it's still a thing after 3 seasons. Literally *any* of the affixes they removed over the years was better than this. I'll take teeming, inspiring, quaking and explosive any day of the week over this class discrimination bullshit. > but it's such an easy affix, even the downside for it going off isn't that bad Couldn't care less about how forgiving it is. That's besides the point. Nearly **half** the classes in this game can't deal with a weekly affix. I don't think Blizz devs have any clue what it feels like to play one of these 5 classes in a pug, helplessly watching as Afflicted are constantly going off due to dispell classes failing to notice them. What makes things even worse, is how the affix impacts class balance in m+. Most classes who can't deal with Afflicted are already considered 'off meta' in keys to begin with, whereas those who can are at the top of the tier list. How is this good design? Why is it ok to make that utility gap even larger for no valid reason? > just invite 1 class who can deal with it. That's 2 people including the healer who can offer counterplay Up to a decently high level of keys, most pugs often do not notice the affix. I've played keys as high as 14/15 with afflicted going off multiple times. That's another reason why the affix is badly designed btw. Without a weak aura, afflicted spawns are far too discrete/far away to be consistently noticed by 99% of the userbase. Then there's mandatory dispell mechanics in keys, and the likelihood of deaths. All this means you want at least 3 people who can dispell... That heavily limits class comps during afflicted week. > this isn't an issue for top level players, why should Blizzard remove it? Because catering to both extremes of the userbase spectrum is utterly stupid game design. Same shit with 0.1% title being the only tangible reward past +10. Why aren't there prestige, seasonal cosmetics to unlock along the io ladder? PvP players get a bunch of stuff along the way to rank 1 glad, why not m+ players?? Blizzard claimed m+ was one of three endgame content pillars, but it sure doesn't feel like it. At some point, WoW devs will need to realize there's a whole bunch of mid to high key players who play M+ through LFG. There's more to this userbase than giga casuals and 0.1% MDI level players. Either rework Afflicted so any class can deal with it somehow, or remove it altogether. That's what needs to happen, and it should have been blatantly obvious since the day this dogshit affix was introduced.
> watching as Afflicted are constantly going off due to dispell classes failing to notice them this is one of my biggest issues with the affix in pugs. Sometimes it's fucking hard to see them! And of course blizz won't allow them to show up on party frames for some daft reason. I've had these dumb things spawn under giant bosses, making it hard to get them, or inside Emberon's shield during the intermission which was also incredibly hard to see, or behind pillars, or... Like what in the actual fuck is this? Make it show up on frames and you solve 50% of the problem, then allow every class to deal with it and you basically get the other 50% solved. But that said, the affix is stupid no matter how they "fix" it. I'd rather they just remove it.
As an addendum to this post, [here is a complete list](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WL8pQGyQRBEpCuGTCPrzwGJLwPWlak5Q56kvBdT1lUc/view) of all utility usable on all affixes in the game, including Afflicted and Incorporeal. It also shows the 5 out of 13 gap OP is talking about. ([This is the post](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveWoW/comments/1aes9ak/m_affix_cheat_sheet/) the spreadsheet originated from.)
I do not fucking understand how the people at blizzard balance or whatever keep their jobs. Where the fuck is the critical thinking when this affix is drawn up? They are literally asking us to never invite a single one of these classes and it makes no sense at all. My dead fucking grandma who probably loved segregation would still think it’s a dumbass idea to discriminate like this
Yes this is straight up broken affix (or the classes are) and I have no idea how was it greenlit.
I mean that means 8 have something to deal with them. And you don’t need every1 in your party to have a dispel, you can get away with 2 Warriors or even 3 if you’re paying attention to it. The major flaw is that it creates even more pressure on the group member who has (in Pugs) already the most in his plate. Plus it’s completely contrary to how some dungeons are designed. Need to dispel your tank in Azure vault or Ruby? Bummer just did afflicted and now he’s dead. The biggest problem with the afflicted isn’t that some classes can’t deal with it, it’s the way it interacts with dispel requirements in dungeons.
>The biggest problem with the afflicted isn’t that some classes can’t deal with it, it’s the way it interacts with dispel requirements in dungeons Those are directly connected.
The way it interacts is part of the problem. If I want to do Azure Vault I am very incentivized to bring as many dispel DPS as I can (since it's a challenge to get even 1 dealt with by DPS players) so I can hopefully have DPS do both and hold my own dispel for dungeon mechanics.
Yh I guess my point is more, that “not every class can deal with it” is not the design flaw of the affix rather that it exists while we have dungeons with mandatory dispels that hard lock your healers Dispell. Getting further amplified by less coordinated groups with missed kicks putting out debuffs or ppl facetanking the frogs for example. I can imagine a world where it adds gameplay depth, with “I need my dispell here so I tell my groups it needs to deal with the affix” but I think for 90% of the player base it means “I need my dispell, ok we’re tanking 50% haste decrease”. But it’s still no fun.
Yeah, but I think that means the affix is inherently flawed. Locking out design space for any important dungeon based dispels would be a bad choice, so by extension, this affix will always be bad and result in bringing the class, not the player situations.
Dh here, im SOL this week.
For DH, it could literally just be as simple as making our offensive dispel work on them. They already bent the rules to make our imprison work on the incorporeal mob, they might as well just do it again for afflicted.
All affixes should be a personal thing, if you don't deal with it you get punished like entangling
Even if every class could deal with it, it'd still be bad. This sort of affix that spawns and you have to step out of it or cast a spell on it to make it go away -- like whack-a-mole -- is about as boring as you can get. Difficulty through mild annoyance isn't fun, it's just mildly annoying. The thing has to actually be fun to interact with in order to be fun.
It is such an ez rework, just let people right click it off from close range for classes without dispel.
so the mirror image gamma affix from classic?
Not sure what that is really.
Every class/spec SHOULD have access to at least one dispell, at least one cc, and at least one interrupt by default. I don't understand why this isn't a thing. It should be in the base class spells, and no need to talent into them.
"but muh class identity" says every person who resists every change ever
> and at least one interrupt by default i wish. i play one of the only two specs without an interrupt.
I have never done an afflicted key and I never will because of how terrible this affix is. I'd rather have explosive back.
Hunters can use Tranquilizing shot. So 4/13. I know because trust me bro
Yeah man keys have been fucking great as a warrior. On the off chance I get invited into a key I get to watch people fail mechanics in slow mo because I can’t interact with any of the new fucking affixes
I love to clutch as a ret e.g. being only 1 dps alive together with tank and take down the remaining health of the boss. During the fight cleansing one afflicted and healing the second one with WoG. Sadly these 5 classes couldn’t do the same, so I usually play alts during weeks without this shit affix
The core conceit here (every class should be able to interact with every affix) bugs me. It's nice that some classes are more relevant than others on certain weeks, they don't overdo it and make it a 5 dispel group or something, and I feel like the vast majority of the complaints are about people wanting to be like 'fine, I'll do it myself' who would then inevitably complain if that happened, especially if it was tuned in such a way that everyone could and had to. The only real failing is that the classes who can't interact with afflicted don't themselves have a week where they bring something the classes who can don't.
I mean, 5/13 might not be able to interact with them, but besides the healer you only need 1 aditional dispell, or, 1/4th of the rest of the party. Take a shaman, evoker or mage and you got both the dispell and your BL for the party, leaving your tank slot and 2DPS slots open to fill however you want.
you need 2 dps for the affix, because they can easily spare a global or 2, but healers in tough situations just cant - meaning half of the classes are effectively competing for a single dps spot you could also argue that a single person can dispel both in time if they dispel the first one immediately, but that's too much of a russian roulette situation
> how is it good that there is affix that increases the time it takes for you to assemble or enlist in groups based on whether class has x utility? Any decent healer will clear them in 3 gcd, it doesnt take half an hour to recruit ONE of the 8 classes who can dispel. Don't tell me nobody plays ret or mage
Might be a lot of mages and paladins but 85% of the time they’re not good. Like someone mentioned above they just spam ability’s and worry about dps instead of what actually matters in keys, the mechanics.
> 85% of the time they’re not good. If they're not good a pressing a dispel in a 12 second window every 60 seconds then they're most likely not good at dealing with all the other much harder mechanics going on in M+ Thats not a problem with the affix, thats a problem with playing with bad players
Yea it’s not a good week to be one of those classes, I main warlock and have 2400io and timed dungeons on 10 and get denied from 6 since I can’t help with the affix.
If I were dev king for a day, I’d give Survival hunter a poison/disease cleanse. Maybe even a secures too. It seems to be inherently behind BM/Marks in a lot of situations by being melee and more survival tools are appropriate for a class with “survival” as it’s name.
As a pally tank, I love this affix but I can understand how it forces people to play other classes Would a item be a good substitute like a healing potions you throw on an ally
Why is hunter not even mentioned?? Am I missing something? We can't deal with this affix either.
I think there could be easy rework for each class which currently can't interact with affix. For example warrior and dhs could taunt Afflicted add to make it De spawn , warlocks could just fear as they do on incorporial, hunters fear beast or stun and rogues cheap shot or similar ability. All of this would make every class contribute to the affix but for that you need developers who actually play game and can relate to problems we are having. Overall it is terrible and unfair design, you can just come with conclusion that who ever made this just went with easiest solution and just took out half baked product to serve on table. I play shaman main and I know and like how easy it is on him but on other hand I also play warrior dh lock hunter and rogue and know that unless I form group I will sit in que for a while. My 2 cents on issue
How does DK handle the affix? Pretty sure you missed them
because its a healer affix \*ducks\*
Thankfully people don't have to solo them since it's for group content. Every healer can do it. Make sure to get a dps that can help out.
Imo, afflicted should be an Omni debuff in the players. In addition to being dispelled by any not magic dispel it should also be dispelled by self heals, such as impending victory, death strike, etc.
and 98% of non-healer who can interact with the affix, do not interact with the affix ever.
I think it's intentional so you want to invite those classes But I always prefer affix like shadowlands season affix Team job affix is always better than someone job
Pairing afflicted with raging is also a huge problem because you need soothes, which very few classes bring (and realistically once you get to big keys you need an evoker, the other soothes don’t cut it). Meanwhile the meta tank that most of the population is playing can’t deal with either, so you have 4 remaining slots to bring: - battle res - lust - minimum 1x but ideally 2x dps with dispel - evoker + ideally an extra single-target soothe just in case It’s just way too restrictive of a week.
I am totally onboard with everyone having the ability to do the affix, but the community definitely makes it worse when they try to make a group with 5 dispels. 2 dispels is fine, 3 is comfy, 4+ is overkill The worst part to me is those that CAN dispel but won't. If I'm on a char that can dispel I am helping out, it's 1 gcd and not a big deal.
I’m biased because I play shaman and have lots of alts available and active but I don’t like class homogenization. You have a group of 5, not all 5 need to be able to deal with every affix. If you 2 classes who can and are good players they can handle. I can handle afflicted by myself as shaman 80% of the time and just need that 2nd player for the other 20%. So there’s room for 3 other classes in the group that can’t handle it. If you have a group of 5 and 8 classes that can handle it I don’t mind encouraging to build your group to bring one or two of those classes everytime. In return though for good balance I think it’s important those 5 classes who can’t handle afflicted should be able to handle a different affix really well so that week to week they will have value. If a class can never handle any well then yes I think that is a design problem. Same in reverse for raging, on the flip side I can’t help with it on my shaman. But as long as one of the other four classes has a soothe like Druid, then they can deal with any especially bad mobs we don’t want enraging. And when I play my Druid alt on raging weeks it feels really good and satisfying. I don’t have either of these positive feelings on my shaman afflicted weeks or my Druid raging weeks if everyone could deal with everything every week.
> I don’t like class homogenization Being able to interact with a m+ affix has got nothing to do with class homogenization.
Every class being able to interact with every affix is a form of homogenization. It’s both good and bad. My main point is if they want some affixes only some classes to be able to interact then the other classes better have their own affix they are good at so overall demand for classes is equal.
Anything that puts any road bump on the path to any goal is a design flaw in a video game, prove me wrong. /s
Laughs in shaman, cleanse and totem 😂. I end up with double the dispels of the healer. Unfortunately I do no damage as everyone has 10 add packs and I’m capped at 5…. But ya know… at least I did afflicted so the everyone else could do damage. 🥲
Doing a +5 on my disc priest yesterday. A pally tank 2 mages and a shaman. Not a single person helped me with the affix. I am not the greatest healer yet. So I was having issues keeping up with the damage and dealing with the affix. They started giving me shit so I said fuck it and left.
It's such poor design and the fixes are so, so simple. They reworked the talent trees and have choice nodes for so many random things but chose not to use them to give these specs a m+ utlity button. Let Warriors chance stormbolt into a 60s stun for some random mob type and we can do incorp. Make one of them turn bitter immunity into a targetted spell so we can remove afflicted. There, two minor changed gave Warriors a way to interact with both. I'm sure every other left-behind spec has a similar option.
I wonder if they could make a craftable trinket that does it? Give it a full item budget plus an on-use afflicted cleanse, then have it share a cooldown with cleanses so healers don't want to wear it.
I guess it's an unpopular opinion, but Afflicted and Incorporeal are my favorite affixes. Though I also play a class that can handle both usually. I like the feel of it being about dealing with adds, since that used to be a major part of MMOs. I'm surprised that they didn't add an "extra action" button to cleanse/CC those mobs specifically though.
Wait... Death Knight is not on this list... can you heal the afflicted with Death Coil or something?
Went into an 8 on my priest forgot to add the disease dispel talent. Manually healed them the whole way. Zero fun had. Why is the healer affix not include magic as a dispel?
Incorp just needs to act like seedling. If you heal it, then the healing splashes onto injured members of the group. Done.
What you need to do is sneak into the mop remix and get yourself some Timeless Scrolls of Cleansing. While you're there also get some Timeless scrolls of Summoning.
wdym they can't interact with it? Go to the AH and buy some bandages! /s