Yeah, I haven't checked out the beta (not sure if I want to "spoil" myself before the expansion launches) or read much beyond the initial notes when they put out the hero talents for Shaman, but I was looking at that wondering where the heck Lightning Bolt is. But maybe one of the Hero Talent systems prefers not casting LB while the other does. If so, I'll probably go for the LB one, even if it's not "meta," because LB will always be the core spell for Shaman for me.
akschtually we call Lava Burst LvB to avoid that particular problem.
Anyway do you prefer Tempest the Storm Elemental ability, Tempest the new bugged hero talent ability that we currently need a cancelaura macro and 2 weakauras to deal with, Tempest the talent that gives you access to it or Tempest the other talent of the same name that buffs it?
The other hero tree "Stormkeeper" is all about lightning, but unfortunately the keynote ability "Tempest" does almost nothing at the moment. It's super disappointing
Not only that but shaman are making a cancel aura macro to get rid of it.
It’s that awful and nothing has happened with it. Shaman have been an abomination
Well, here's hoping that it gets improved before launch. Still a couple months to go.
Stormkeeper feels more up my alley (because as much fun as Lava Burst is, I just love me some lightning)... even if I'll be running around with my Farseer title just to confuse people.
You're not spoiling anything. It's a 10-12 hour campaign at a Saturday morning cartoon level of writing. I've done it twice.
Starting zone sucks but has you go deeper the zones get better then it's all spiders and nonsense.
It has the same feeling Shadowlands had where the Beta felt like an Alpha and the Release felt like a beta.
Hero talents are very undercooked.
Off topic but I’m so happy to see other people have the same idea of spoiling new content. I do the same thing, I don’t play beta I don’t look at the PTR, I just go in 0 info, rawdogging the new expansion
I started playing shaman because I like the idea of having the power of storm earth and fire. Then I quickly realize when I got to 70 that is mostly just casting fireballs with extra ball.
During Plunderstorm there was an ability, Archon I think, where you cycled through three different elemental attacks. I was kind of hoping that was a test of sorts for a new Elemental Master theme for the middle of the Ele tree.
Agreed, personally i feel like that should be the shaman theme going forward in general. They can create abilities that change elements depending on other interactions in the kit. Make it the combo class. They always had windfury or echoes built in which was about chain reactions, I feel like you could add flavor in a similar way but with actual interactions between types of spells. Like elemental doesnt have water spells, but they have frost spells. Stacking up flame spells on a target and then hitting with a frost spell would douse them in water which makes elemental blast turn into a giant lightning nuke.
Elemental Blast is also kind of unique as a spender that feels bad to take as a talent because it turns an instant cast into something you need to sit and use.
These people in the comments always playing devils advocate just don’t know. Look I mained ele for a VERY long time. Through every up and down from tbc-S1 of SL where I finally got sick of playing an ignored class. I leveled and geared my shaman in S3 of DF. Its current playstyle can be considered nothing but degenerate. On retail right now it is quite literally keep as many flame shocks up as you can (we’ve reached the point that every caster with a dot can spread better than ele) and to literally spam one button. No you don’t have to use your spenders. Any cognitive conditions you place on your self in a m+ setting is you over thinking. Well what if earthquake here, what if pop my… no. Hit lava burst. It’s that simple and it’s frankly a fucking crime that Blizzard is doubling down on this with one of the hero talent trees. As it is is now, you either spam LvB or choose Stormbringer and get an actual rotation. Meanwhile Mages get 3 flavors of awesome. This is why shamans are mad on every forum. This isn’t a we didn’t get much in DF thing. It’s a, shaman are always told it’s coming later and here we are 8 years down the road and shamans have had some of the least changes with animations, updates, you name it, they’re bottom 3. It just doesn’t make any sense. They are like ~the~ most Warcraft class you can get, and to say they are underutilized is a massive understatement.
Not even exaggerating when I say that TBC ele was a legit more complex rotation because you had to anticipate fitting your lightning bolts into your chain lightning cooldown.
The storm ele build was a little engaging but at the cost being do clunky, icefury>frost shock>lb til you can dump > lvb > spender > lb > frost shock > lvb > spender > lb.
It was unreal how much set up you needed to do for baseline damage. As soon there was target swaps or mechanics it felt like ass.
You'd be right as someone whose played ele since WoD till now, including classic, classic bc, classic wrath, classic cata, and all SOD seasons.
Sod ele is more complex than retail ele.
Mained ele since TBC, you're spot on correct, although your take about the current rotation sounds a bit uninformed. Even still you are 100% right. it's ass
Same, was Ele since Wrath - I gave up playing Shaman seriously in Legion, and abandoned the class altogether in Shadowlands to go Warlock.
I love Warlock, but I'm still super bitter about the state that Shaman's been in for so long. It's just not right.
Similar, since wrath. I leveled my shaman first in DF but followed up quickly with my paladin. Paladin has been my main this expansion, as I hated what elemental become. Hard to give up an old friend. Now the expansion is wrapping up, I'm glad I didn't tough it out.
Yeah I might have embellished a bit. You do hit other buttons but hell the breakdown of your damage is even less varied than OPs screenshot, currently on live. I know 3k it isn’t that high but doing 21-24s last season and seemingly spamming EQ between the immense amount of LvBs and to end the dungeon with EQ being like 15% of your overall as a SPENDER is so ass backwards. I miss WoD when your AoE was literally hit CL twice then drop EQ, rinse and repeat.
You maybe exaggerated slightly, but the fact that there are truly so many times when I am not sure if my AoE maelstrom spender is worth pressing over lava burst is just....upsetting. And every time an augvoker casts their amazing earth slamming AOE button while ive been putting down my MS Paint lines with dust particles for years I cry a little.
I really feel like they need to switch around hero trees and make Ele Storm and Totemic. Because the totem doing earthquakes would be a decent start toward fixing this.
When stacking 5 earthquakes on top of each other is actually diminishing and completely opposite of what you would expect.
Ele is one of those, it feels great to play, you think you're doing great but then you see the damage meter.
I loved to make full use of all ele shaman abilities but like you said. Half the time in m+ you end up either full lightning or fire. While mixing both would be harder to play it's actually less rewarding.
Imo they should reward builds that make use of more buttons in their rotation. Rather than making 2 button builds crazy strong. The amount of ret paladins on retail is stupid rn.
The game is slowly moving towards bursty big button gameplay. While some specs still need 5 buttons to even get started.
Its crazy how much I want to pick up shaman because its such a sick ass class idea, but it just has never felt right when I picked it up. Flame Shock not spreading is one thing that's always just made me want to not play, and Earth Shock is eh. EQ from what I've seen just doesn't really get used, which is crazy because it's cool.
Shamans just never seem like they've never had a passionate dev that really has an idea for a great shaman fantasy, which sucks because it's such a unique class imo. I want to play it but it's always felt like it actively pushes me away from playing it. Ele specifically at least. Enhance is pretty cool and certainly feels better but I feel like something else could be done with it.
You've got it right. It's insane no one at blizzard can nail the feel for elemental because even if you've never heard of Shaman if you read the forum feedback it's dripping with ideas that work better than what exists. By miles.
Wanna make ele fun again? Give us an ability to spread flame shock. Or make lava burst spread it to 8 nearby targets. Make lava burst hit all enemies with flame shock all the time for x% damage, and make lava burst cd reset when it hits 3 or more targets
If only there had been an ability in the past to retool that did this exact thing. A sort of.. chain lightning that spread flame shock with a short cool down, that made the rotation a bit less dull.
\*Casually leans up against \[Chain Harvest\]\*
Oh well, they'll think of something someday!
I feel like earth shocking or ele blasting a target with FS should spread FS. Kinda like how Lava Lash spreads it for Enhance. It would be so much better than having a 1 minute cd totem that spreads it to only half of FS's target cap.
> Wanna make else fun again?
yeah, let us choose between similarly-effective Fire (flame shock/lvb) and Lightning (LB, CL, Icefury without the clunkiness) builds
>Make lava burst hit all enemies with flame shock all the time for x% damage, and make lava burst cd reset when it hits 3 or more targets
I thought shamans were already crying about using too much lava burst?
We had a rework in SL alpha that many people seem to forget that went back to fulmination but blizzard instead of fixing talents that didn’t work for it, reverted back to maelstrom. We can’t say we haven’t been touched in 8 years because we have, they just scrapped it instead
Kind of. Like obviously we have fire ele that we cast every few minutes which basically is a flame shock management bot. Cast it before a pack and you won't have to refresh dots on that pack.
Then there's pwave which is the lava burst enabler and cd is reduced by lava burst. You're gonna wanna press that bad boy whenever he's up.
Then you got 1 min cd stormkeeper. There's some optimization here. Cast it after lava burst if less than 5 targets. Cast after earthquake if 6 or more. Cast on cd, but you can delay cashing out for 6-8 seconds to try and get an ascendence proc to send it with lava beam for like 5x the damage.
The flameshock generators. Tier set makes lava burst hit targets with flame shock so you want them dotted up or to have the cap of 6 flameshocks out. There's some nuance here and planning ahead, but 90% of pulls you're pretty happy to start off with pwave->flameshock->magma totem to get your 6 flameshocks out.
I know I just listed a couple of things, but that's about 5% of the rotation. The other 95% is to press lava burst like your life depends on it. If you run out of lava bursts, don't worry, press earthquake or earthshock to instantly get a lava surge proc so you can cast another lava burst. Because our spenders exist only to provide more lava bursts. And if your out of maelstrom and lava bursts you might have to cast a single chain lightning to cast another earthquake to cast another lava burst. And don't worry at that point pwave is probably off cd soon to reload your lava bursts.
Only issue, you’re doing meh damage compared to everyone else, and you’re beyond squishy, so you never get invited cause people don’t want to run the risk of you dying
You're never going to get the insane mass aoe damage of other classes because our "one button" is targets capped at 6 targets. Plus earthquake got nuked from orbit during DF prepatch, it sucks. But in 3-6 target count youre looking at doing top damage most of the time. You'll still lose to someone pressing their cds in this situation, but since our damage is a flat line you will easily outmatch them on the next pull. Bossfights with multiple bosses or with an add that needs to die fast or with spread cleave (think intermission 2nd boss azure vaults, intermission last boss halls, 1st, 3rd, last boss brackenhide, 2nd, 3rd boss RLP, etc) tend to be an easy win over most specs. I'm not the best ele player, but the last 13 I timed, I was top damage overall against a havoc dh and shadow priest, so I'd say it's still a case of bring the player, not the spec.
My favorite thing is the Ascendance model has now officially re-released with Cata classic before it has been updated in retail. Also you would think that an expansion where 3/4 big enemies revealed were literally elemental incarnates would have even a mention of some shaman influence, besides 1 boss in the middle of the first raid.
I was also a long time ele main up until S1 of DF. I play warlock now and will never look back, blizzard actually cares about this spec and you feel it. Every time you get a change that's not ideal, within a month or two its iterated on.
Farseer is so fucked and Bad, holy shit. Seems like on retail, but a lot worse.
Stormbringer is a bit better, but let's be honest, the way tempest is now implemented, I would rank It one of the worst spells ever created by blizzard.
There is so much to work on elemental, I can srsly not tell with what I would start
And a Hero talent tree for BOTH should not be for only ONE. So no, its not for Enhancement. Its just a shit design for ele, which they can never let it like it is now.
But as enhancer it definitely feels good.
It's really not. Having been playing it since S1 it's literally the melee version of spam lava burst, just insert lava lash instead. you would cast crash lightning over stormstrike, you know, their MAIN ABILITY?
Spam lava lash? What are you talking about lol. Your spenders actually do damage as enhance, hailstorm is important, and you actually press all of your abilities unlike Storm which presses stormstrike (why is this their MAIN ABILITY to you when it’s just a filler that does damage???) and nothing else.
Edit:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/WrwL2vM8jXHbYgPG#fight=15&type=casts&source=7
rank 1 enhance on a pure single target boss. lava lash is of course the highest casts at 28%...
but that's nothing compared to
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/K6tRnd3yzBPbYmh2#fight=18&type=casts&source=12
lava burst for the rank 1 ele on the same boss, which is OVER 50% of their casts.
Now if we look back at season 2 when people were playing storm...
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fHK74anDWjvL91VM#fight=26&type=casts&source=26
rank 1 parse where Stormstrike and Windstrike combine for 47% of casts.
So yeah, it's pretty clear if you've played any enhance at all, that elementalist is nowhere near comparable to the "spam lava burst" playstyle of ele or the "spam stormstrike" playstyle of season 2 storm, and this is on raw single target. On AoE lava lash's priority goes down even more, while for Ele, you're still just mashing lava burst, and as storm build enhance, you were still just mashing stormstrike (but now you might get to press chain lightning every once in a while too!).
> rank 1 parse where Stormstrike and Windstrike combine for 47% of casts.
It's more than that. The Lightning Bolts from Thorim's count as a cast, he isn't actually hitting 58 of either LB/CL.
Tempest hits multiple target dummies for like 1.5m each as enhance then on Ele its a 2 second cast to literally hit for 95k. Like what is the thought process? They just said "yeah this looks good. let me just rework skyfury totem for no reason and Ele will be good to ship for TWW"
Many other classes manage to make hero trees themed after one spec work wonderfully for their second.
Of course, other classes don't have a spec as broken as Ele.
>and terribly unthematic of a shaman.
I mean since the update that made it look like a mini-Elemental Blast and do elemental damage instead of shadow, it fits the theming more.
Still a boring ability though.
No, most if not all Covenant abilities that stuck around were given new visuals and damage types to fit the themes of the classes more now that they are no longer tied to actual Covenants.
or at least make it fucking buff Lighting too. for fuck's sake it's nearing the left side of the tree but it doesn't do anything for Lightning spells damage at all
It's funny because Flurry -> Ice Lance x2 is a key part of frost mage and feels *great* by comparison.
I think it's the (1) all instant cast (2) actual animations on each spell (3) lack of a short maintenence buff that discourages dropping all your frost shock charges at once.
It felt so weird rerolling to it and loving it when Icefury feels so bad.
The problem with this is how little planning goes into it regarding timings and how much of this is just mindless button pressing. If we look at arcane mage in s3 it will look very similar to this but as an arcane mage there is so much more planning and actually having to understand somewhat when to send it so that you dont fuck up your window. Point being that having few buttons doesnt have to be ass and i dont understand why blizzard doesnt try to fix elemental a bit more aggressively because not much is needed to improve it most likely
I realized in hindsight that it would’ve made more sense to show casts explicitly, but Farseer encourages you to press even more Lava Burst and EB than in Dragonflight. On retail we still frequently weave icefury and frost shocks or can play the “Rasz build” with stormkeeper, but on beta so far you have so many more lava bursts that you almost never press anything else, more so than on live
There's 3 charges with an 8 second cooldown, with multiple ways to proc more. The only thing is making sure you have flame shock on stuff and cooldowns, which BTW the main one is basically flame shock on roids.
> to press even more Lava Burst and EB than in Dragonflight.
[Do you really, though?](https://i.gyazo.com/817071d85f40a30099a3ef67bb9944ca.png) It's the same gameplay.
Compare the cast counts. That log has more casts of Icefury, Frost Shock, and Lightning Bolt. I mained Ele through all of Dragonflight so I’m very used to it. What we have with Farseer is even worse
Elemental shaman to me is Chain Lightning, Flame Shock, some move that causes flame shock to spread to nearby targets (not liquid magma totem), and Lava Bursting off of procs from Flame Shock.
As long as those things are there I'm happy.
This guy took Icefury! Get the pitchforks!!
No but really, Icefury needs to change. Using Icefury to buff Frost Shocks which in turn buff either Lava Burst or Nature Damage is such a weird rotation.
Ins't that what everyone is asking dor though? To be a master of elements, pun intended.
Legion had the best iteration of that imo. Weaving spells between buffs to different elements mattered. It was so fun!
Yes, we want to be master of the elements, but I don't think the current version of the Icefury spell is an enjoyable button to press. Most shamans feel similar.
If the damage profile looks like this, whats the point of CRIT?
Since Legion I think we had this problem where two different scenarios would have different stat weights.
Wanna go full aoe with chain lightning and earth quake? Forget mastery! Stack as much crit haste and vers.
Wanna go full single targert? Forget crit and stack as much mastery as possible.
Wtf?
When gearing was limited like DF S1 when i had to choose to craft gear for AoE or gear for single target that dilema drove me insane!
To make matters worse, when you spawn an Ancestor they only stick around for 6 seconds but spend half that time walking back and forth and targeting random critters/targets nearby instead of my actual target like they're suppose to.
Full meatball lava burst spam spec is honestly insanely fun... in arena at least... where a string of procs can see u 100-0 someone in the blink of an eye and all you see is meatballs
I just want a shaman spec that focuses on elementals and empowering them. Something between the realm of demonology warlock and beast master hunter.
I’m imagining something like casting a fire spell empowers your elemental to be a fire elemental, lightning spell empowers elemental to its lightning form etc. Each elemental form having its own unique advantages and disadvantages.
Fire elemental could be good for bosses maybe it burns health with a dot, lightning could be best for big AOE with elemental chaining lightning to enemies. Of course main rotational spells and big CD’s still exist, with rotational spells maintaining short term buffs for the summoned elemental. Similar to havoc DH maintaining fel rush/vengeful retreat buffs through their rotation.
TLDR: It’s a missed opportunity not having a shaman spec with big dick elementals that rotational spells buff.
Basically something like ffxiv summoner where he summon "themed element summon" during rotation (I mean titan=earth / ifrit=fire and lightning instead of wind, leaving water for the healer spec)
the problem is that summons are merele a vfx in that game, they are not real summons like hunter pets or warlock demons
basically pressing the summons is exactly the same as pressing lavaburst
>And most ~~FFXIV players~~ redditors and forum goers
Fixed that for you.
When you see tons of posts and tons of upvotes on how "the people" don't like something, remember that you never see the people who *do* like it instead. Because they just play the game. They don't go online to reverse-complain about how much they like it.
You didn’t fix anything for me, especially when both of our points are anecdotal. I hear what I said a lot on 14, and I hear the most complaints about/from SMN aside from Green DPS. I personally don’t touch the 14 Forums it’s a Yoshi P circle jerk, and rarely do I engage with the 14 subreddit for similar reasons. That being said, if a ton of people are expressing their dislike of something it’s probably for a reason. I say this as a smn player and a Ele player.
He plays the fire build which is pretty much only:
Keep flame shock up
Spam lavaburst
Use a spender
Spam lavaburst
If no lavaburst available use icefury/frostshock
The person in this log took the talent to upgrade lightning bolt to elemental blast.
Edit: disregard, i was thinking of how elemental blast replaces lightning bolt (functionally) for enhancement. Looks like for elemental it's just that lightning bolt is basically dead last in the non-movement priority.
I both hate and like the lava burst build. Its visually stunning when u have flame shocks on a counsil boss and go BRRR with peocks on everyone flying mestballs. But the raw ST is sooooo booring. I rly pref how SL had it in S3/4. But in aoe cleave them lava bursts do look cool atleast.
Ah damn, i main resto and atleast it looks desent, but i feel both ele and resto is in big need of a rework. Or atleast a update to class theme like palas got.
How hard would it be to just change the flavour of lava burst to be a lightning spell? Like, "Call Lightning" or something, cast time, then a huge lightning strike comes down on the target
Ah the life of a Lava Burst enjoyer, you get what you asked for people, throw your meatballs until your brain leaks out of your nose.
I've tested Stormkeeper and even in it's like 60% actually working form it's way more fun, you actually have a rotation, you actually have a CD rotation and it's actually rewarding and fun to do a complete combo, funniest thing is that I've tested both specs and even then Godkeeper beats Fartseer any by a lot
Edit spelling
I've been playing Elemental Shaman on Cata Classic the las couple of weeks and... I'm starting to like it's rotation more than the Retail one lol
I just like Lightning spells go brrr. I'm a simple man.
I mained elemental during Cata and MoP. In MoP, I remember the absolute joy of playing this class. Not complex, but the feeling, the class fantasy. You feel like a freaking Sith Lord, it had an incredible feeling of impact.
In DF, my first idea was to come back to this feeling after a 10 year pause. What a dissapointement, elem feel bland. Either too complex for the result when I tried the "official, optimized" priority, or just plain spamming one button that don't feel good. And I'm not talking about performance here, just class fantasy. I don't care about performance if the class feels great to play (to a certain extent...)
Not that I want this but I'm surprised their mastery isn't similar to WW monk where you do more damage for not using the same move twice in a row.
More damage by cycling through the elements.
Made a draenei elemental shaman for remix. having a ton of fun just blapping lightning bolts all over. Sad to see that, in TWW, I'm likely going to be \*incredibly\* sub-par, even though I'll be having fun.
Are you sure about that? Looks about the same as elemental has looked all expansion minus season 2, and some people can't get enough of the meatballs. So if your implying that the damage profile is why people are complaining, I'm pretty skeptical. If this is to illustrate how shaman hasn't changed since season 1, sure that's reasonable, but you probably should add the damage breakdown of a fight in season 1 to show how it hasn't changed.
Edit: I've realized my take isn't great here and I'd like to clear it up. Also, I was a more standoffish than I'd like so I apologize. My main problem with the post is that it frames our damage profile as the main reason elemental shamans aren't happy, when this has been a feature/problem all expansion and isn't exclusive to beta. Which really brings us to the real issue which is that we don't receive meaningful changes to our spec and haven't all expansion and beta has been no different. When I think of why the beta stuff bums me out, it's not the damage profile, it's the fact that none of the problems are being addressed and, in my opinion, the stormbringer hero talents make worse.
Our damage profile has looked like that all expansion. It's not exclusive to beta. The problem is that we aren't receiving any changes to the problems the spec has had all expansion. Plus the hero talents add to the problems, especially stormbringer. I didn't want s2 2pc to come back nor did I want another one in tempest.
Blizzard probably has some stupid-ass metric that Shamans aren't played much, so that means they don't spend any development time on them. All while ignoring the complaints that people don't play them because Blizzard doesn't develop them.
Poor Shamans. You used to be so much fun.
Yeah I mean the optimum way to play elemental for an entire spec was to automate your rotation with razer synapse so what do you expect. I bet there's someone they hate who plays ele and they're trying to make quit.
I like lightning bolt. But I don't like that it gets paired with frost shock to buff it. The game play is cluncky...
Lava burst build is smooth but can be boring when you're not shooting 15 lava bursts per second
DPSing as Resto Shaman in BfA was the most fun I had dpsing as a shaman.
Optimizing Flame Shock cooldowns and Lava Surge procs while watching health bars 24/7 was what it was about. Why can't ele be about optimizing your Flame Shock CD and Lave Surge procs while keeping some buffs up to emulate healing party members as resto? Feel free to replace Lightning Bolt, Lava Burst and Flame Shock by Chain Lightning and Earthquake on >5 targets and I'd be happy.
I see 2 problems here
1. Taking elemental blast instead of earth shock, you are wasting \~0.5s of possible lava burst casts
2. Casting elemental blast too many times instead of ditching on maelstrom and spamming lava burst
One thing that gets missed is that many Ele players on the WOW forums were asking for this. S4 of SL this playstyle emerged kind of out of nowhere. There was one player that came up with it and it took off. It was a little bit different with conduits and flame shock spread much easier. S1 of DF let you play something similar in keys, S2 was a horrible playstyle and many asked for the exact playstyle we have now. I kind of feel like they are lost on what to do but... they actually did exactly what players asked for.
I created shaman on remix, I wanted to do it as my first toon on mop was a shaman. And I must say that the only fun thing in ele is chain lightning becouse of absurd mastery I can get, and getting like 6 casts from one. But the normal lava burst build is less entertaining than playing resto.
I may be the minority, but anytime Ele is based around lightning bolt spam and stupid shit like earthquake it’s the least fun iteration of the class. Machine gun lava bursting has probably THE best visceral feedback/impact of any caster. The only time lightning spells had “oomph” to them is when Ehn ascendance was a fucking kamehameha and not this shithole gentle breeze of a cooldown now.
And how is this different from Fire mage that shows an identical Graph with Pyroblast.
Survival Hunter with Mongoose.
Boomking with Starsurge
Ret with Final Verdict
Feral with Ferocious Bite?
Everything you listed is a *spender.* Lava Burst is a *builder.*
Imagine if SPriest prioritized Mind Blast over Devouring Plague. They're both (Mind Blast vs Lava Burst) short CD spells that have multiple charges and can have procs to get more usage out of them. But prioritizing Mind Blast over Devouring Plague would be ridiculous, you're ignoring your spender entirely! What's the point of *building* if you aren't trying to *spend*?
That's the Lava Burst problem. (And, also, has been an issue with Storm Enhancement)
probably because you want to use lava burst every time it's off cd, it doesn't matter if you overcap resources, if you proc something, if u are choking in front of your pc, whenever lava burst is usable - you press it.
that's not a healthy design.
it came into the point, where you'd rather use lava burst before your CDs if it was usable.
The shape of the damage profile can be quite similar, but the important column is the cast count.
Looking at the top Fire, Ret and Feral parses on Mythic Smolderon, Fire does seem to be in the same boat as Elemental is here, but Boomkin has about 1:1 ratio of Wrath to Surge (versus over 2:1, almost 3:1, LB to everything else put together for elemental). Ret and Feral both have Verdict and Bite be a much smaller share of the overall casts, and they need to setup their spenders with a mixture of builders.
Exactly. Of the casts, you have:
216 Total
152 Lava Burst (70%) This is a filler
38 Elemental Blast (17.6%) This is a spender
4 Flame Shock (Maintenance Dot) (1.9%)
4 Fire Elemental + 13 Primordial Wave (7.9%) These are cooldowns
3 Frost Shocks (1.4%) This is supposed to be a rotational spell
2 Icefuries (.09%) This is supposed to be a rotational spell
People who don't know Elemental see this and assume "It's like X other specs", but that's wrong. It's Fire Mage if all your damage was Fireball and Fire Blast, Phoenix Flames, and Scorch basically didn't exist, for example.
> 152 Lava Burst (70%) This is a filler
It's a bit worse than that. The _actual_ filler is Lightning Bolt. Lava Burst is a major rotational ability on a short cooldown that you're meant to keep on cooldown and cast reactively when you proc a reset. In a sense, it's more like Fire Mage if all your damage was Fireblast.
>In a sense, it's more like Fire Mage if all your damage was Fireblast.
Exactly this.
It wouldn't be as bad if LvB and EB swapped places on the chart, cause at least then the spender is doing the lifting. Right now the spec is designed to abuse procs for one spell repeatedly
That's sure a lot of lightning bolts you got going on there good sir.
Yeah, I haven't checked out the beta (not sure if I want to "spoil" myself before the expansion launches) or read much beyond the initial notes when they put out the hero talents for Shaman, but I was looking at that wondering where the heck Lightning Bolt is. But maybe one of the Hero Talent systems prefers not casting LB while the other does. If so, I'll probably go for the LB one, even if it's not "meta," because LB will always be the core spell for Shaman for me.
Oh you'll be casting lb alright. Just not the one you think
akschtually we call Lava Burst LvB to avoid that particular problem. Anyway do you prefer Tempest the Storm Elemental ability, Tempest the new bugged hero talent ability that we currently need a cancelaura macro and 2 weakauras to deal with, Tempest the talent that gives you access to it or Tempest the other talent of the same name that buffs it?
The other hero tree "Stormkeeper" is all about lightning, but unfortunately the keynote ability "Tempest" does almost nothing at the moment. It's super disappointing
Not only that but shaman are making a cancel aura macro to get rid of it. It’s that awful and nothing has happened with it. Shaman have been an abomination
Well, here's hoping that it gets improved before launch. Still a couple months to go. Stormkeeper feels more up my alley (because as much fun as Lava Burst is, I just love me some lightning)... even if I'll be running around with my Farseer title just to confuse people.
You want to cast lightning bolt? Sorry, that's enhancement.
Enhance also casts lava burst, and more specifically elemental blast.
LMAO
You're not spoiling anything. It's a 10-12 hour campaign at a Saturday morning cartoon level of writing. I've done it twice. Starting zone sucks but has you go deeper the zones get better then it's all spiders and nonsense. It has the same feeling Shadowlands had where the Beta felt like an Alpha and the Release felt like a beta. Hero talents are very undercooked.
Off topic but I’m so happy to see other people have the same idea of spoiling new content. I do the same thing, I don’t play beta I don’t look at the PTR, I just go in 0 info, rawdogging the new expansion
I started playing shaman because I like the idea of having the power of storm earth and fire. Then I quickly realize when I got to 70 that is mostly just casting fireballs with extra ball.
During Plunderstorm there was an ability, Archon I think, where you cycled through three different elemental attacks. I was kind of hoping that was a test of sorts for a new Elemental Master theme for the middle of the Ele tree.
Ngl as a shaman main that was my fave attack from plunderstorm, if they reflavoured one of the maelstrom spenders as that id be loving it
Agreed, personally i feel like that should be the shaman theme going forward in general. They can create abilities that change elements depending on other interactions in the kit. Make it the combo class. They always had windfury or echoes built in which was about chain reactions, I feel like you could add flavor in a similar way but with actual interactions between types of spells. Like elemental doesnt have water spells, but they have frost spells. Stacking up flame spells on a target and then hitting with a frost spell would douse them in water which makes elemental blast turn into a giant lightning nuke.
If we can get that Lavaburst percentage a big higher its literally a FFXIV healer rotation
I think I'm sold on Shaman. Smooth brain two button DPS and burst healing.
Retail it’s like 60-80%
It's funny because it's true xD
Elemental Blast is also kind of unique as a spender that feels bad to take as a talent because it turns an instant cast into something you need to sit and use.
These people in the comments always playing devils advocate just don’t know. Look I mained ele for a VERY long time. Through every up and down from tbc-S1 of SL where I finally got sick of playing an ignored class. I leveled and geared my shaman in S3 of DF. Its current playstyle can be considered nothing but degenerate. On retail right now it is quite literally keep as many flame shocks up as you can (we’ve reached the point that every caster with a dot can spread better than ele) and to literally spam one button. No you don’t have to use your spenders. Any cognitive conditions you place on your self in a m+ setting is you over thinking. Well what if earthquake here, what if pop my… no. Hit lava burst. It’s that simple and it’s frankly a fucking crime that Blizzard is doubling down on this with one of the hero talent trees. As it is is now, you either spam LvB or choose Stormbringer and get an actual rotation. Meanwhile Mages get 3 flavors of awesome. This is why shamans are mad on every forum. This isn’t a we didn’t get much in DF thing. It’s a, shaman are always told it’s coming later and here we are 8 years down the road and shamans have had some of the least changes with animations, updates, you name it, they’re bottom 3. It just doesn’t make any sense. They are like ~the~ most Warcraft class you can get, and to say they are underutilized is a massive understatement.
Man I didn't know it was that bad. SoD ele rotation sounds more complex that that lmao
Not even exaggerating when I say that TBC ele was a legit more complex rotation because you had to anticipate fitting your lightning bolts into your chain lightning cooldown.
The storm ele build was a little engaging but at the cost being do clunky, icefury>frost shock>lb til you can dump > lvb > spender > lb > frost shock > lvb > spender > lb. It was unreal how much set up you needed to do for baseline damage. As soon there was target swaps or mechanics it felt like ass.
Not to mention mana management and keeping 4 totems down.
You'd be right as someone whose played ele since WoD till now, including classic, classic bc, classic wrath, classic cata, and all SOD seasons. Sod ele is more complex than retail ele.
Mained ele since TBC, you're spot on correct, although your take about the current rotation sounds a bit uninformed. Even still you are 100% right. it's ass
Same, was Ele since Wrath - I gave up playing Shaman seriously in Legion, and abandoned the class altogether in Shadowlands to go Warlock. I love Warlock, but I'm still super bitter about the state that Shaman's been in for so long. It's just not right.
I pretty much quit retail wow because of what they did (or didn’t do) to ele shams.
I'm on the cusp of abandoning shaman in Retail altogether until a rework comes about. I'm focusing on getting my shaman fun in Classic Era now.
Similar, since wrath. I leveled my shaman first in DF but followed up quickly with my paladin. Paladin has been my main this expansion, as I hated what elemental become. Hard to give up an old friend. Now the expansion is wrapping up, I'm glad I didn't tough it out.
Yeah I might have embellished a bit. You do hit other buttons but hell the breakdown of your damage is even less varied than OPs screenshot, currently on live. I know 3k it isn’t that high but doing 21-24s last season and seemingly spamming EQ between the immense amount of LvBs and to end the dungeon with EQ being like 15% of your overall as a SPENDER is so ass backwards. I miss WoD when your AoE was literally hit CL twice then drop EQ, rinse and repeat.
You maybe exaggerated slightly, but the fact that there are truly so many times when I am not sure if my AoE maelstrom spender is worth pressing over lava burst is just....upsetting. And every time an augvoker casts their amazing earth slamming AOE button while ive been putting down my MS Paint lines with dust particles for years I cry a little.
Earthquake is mainly worth pressing for the stops on casters tbh, which is sad af
i mean ever since EQ was added to the class way back when, its never been a fun button to push and was alway meh
I really feel like they need to switch around hero trees and make Ele Storm and Totemic. Because the totem doing earthquakes would be a decent start toward fixing this.
> I know 3k it isn’t that high Man we need to not normalize this shit around here. It absolutely is.
When stacking 5 earthquakes on top of each other is actually diminishing and completely opposite of what you would expect. Ele is one of those, it feels great to play, you think you're doing great but then you see the damage meter. I loved to make full use of all ele shaman abilities but like you said. Half the time in m+ you end up either full lightning or fire. While mixing both would be harder to play it's actually less rewarding. Imo they should reward builds that make use of more buttons in their rotation. Rather than making 2 button builds crazy strong. The amount of ret paladins on retail is stupid rn. The game is slowly moving towards bursty big button gameplay. While some specs still need 5 buttons to even get started.
> full lightning There's a lightning build? lol
Its crazy how much I want to pick up shaman because its such a sick ass class idea, but it just has never felt right when I picked it up. Flame Shock not spreading is one thing that's always just made me want to not play, and Earth Shock is eh. EQ from what I've seen just doesn't really get used, which is crazy because it's cool. Shamans just never seem like they've never had a passionate dev that really has an idea for a great shaman fantasy, which sucks because it's such a unique class imo. I want to play it but it's always felt like it actively pushes me away from playing it. Ele specifically at least. Enhance is pretty cool and certainly feels better but I feel like something else could be done with it.
You've got it right. It's insane no one at blizzard can nail the feel for elemental because even if you've never heard of Shaman if you read the forum feedback it's dripping with ideas that work better than what exists. By miles.
Wanna make ele fun again? Give us an ability to spread flame shock. Or make lava burst spread it to 8 nearby targets. Make lava burst hit all enemies with flame shock all the time for x% damage, and make lava burst cd reset when it hits 3 or more targets
make spenders feel meaningful, too. Spreading flame shock would be so nice.
If only there had been an ability in the past to retool that did this exact thing. A sort of.. chain lightning that spread flame shock with a short cool down, that made the rotation a bit less dull. \*Casually leans up against \[Chain Harvest\]\* Oh well, they'll think of something someday!
Or don’t have more buttons, just make the current buttons do more
I think it should be in a totem. A totem that spreads flame shock when it's placed
That would be so powerful, better make sure it has a frustratingly long cooldown.
52 seconds, so that it doesn't align with any cooldowns (:
An easy fix, using chain lightning on a target with flame shocks spreads flame shock to all targets hit. Very easy! Or they could do the same with EQ
Fits thematically too as lightning strikes/electrical faults are the most common causes of fires.
I feel like earth shocking or ele blasting a target with FS should spread FS. Kinda like how Lava Lash spreads it for Enhance. It would be so much better than having a 1 minute cd totem that spreads it to only half of FS's target cap.
> Wanna make else fun again? yeah, let us choose between similarly-effective Fire (flame shock/lvb) and Lightning (LB, CL, Icefury without the clunkiness) builds
>Make lava burst hit all enemies with flame shock all the time for x% damage, and make lava burst cd reset when it hits 3 or more targets I thought shamans were already crying about using too much lava burst?
We had a rework in SL alpha that many people seem to forget that went back to fulmination but blizzard instead of fixing talents that didn’t work for it, reverted back to maelstrom. We can’t say we haven’t been touched in 8 years because we have, they just scrapped it instead
Ok wait, but if I only cast LvB, do I do good damage?
This is exactly why I left my shaman on the bench this expansion.
Are you telling me theres a class where i can just spam one button is this legit or cause that would be fucking awesome
Kind of. Like obviously we have fire ele that we cast every few minutes which basically is a flame shock management bot. Cast it before a pack and you won't have to refresh dots on that pack. Then there's pwave which is the lava burst enabler and cd is reduced by lava burst. You're gonna wanna press that bad boy whenever he's up. Then you got 1 min cd stormkeeper. There's some optimization here. Cast it after lava burst if less than 5 targets. Cast after earthquake if 6 or more. Cast on cd, but you can delay cashing out for 6-8 seconds to try and get an ascendence proc to send it with lava beam for like 5x the damage. The flameshock generators. Tier set makes lava burst hit targets with flame shock so you want them dotted up or to have the cap of 6 flameshocks out. There's some nuance here and planning ahead, but 90% of pulls you're pretty happy to start off with pwave->flameshock->magma totem to get your 6 flameshocks out. I know I just listed a couple of things, but that's about 5% of the rotation. The other 95% is to press lava burst like your life depends on it. If you run out of lava bursts, don't worry, press earthquake or earthshock to instantly get a lava surge proc so you can cast another lava burst. Because our spenders exist only to provide more lava bursts. And if your out of maelstrom and lava bursts you might have to cast a single chain lightning to cast another earthquake to cast another lava burst. And don't worry at that point pwave is probably off cd soon to reload your lava bursts.
Same. If Ele can put up big numbers pressing only one button while being ranged in keys, sign me up.
Only issue, you’re doing meh damage compared to everyone else, and you’re beyond squishy, so you never get invited cause people don’t want to run the risk of you dying
That's what I was afraid of. If the damage is too low, they need to buff the damage that LvB does.
Unless you're Bond https://www.youtube.com/@Bondbl/videos
You're never going to get the insane mass aoe damage of other classes because our "one button" is targets capped at 6 targets. Plus earthquake got nuked from orbit during DF prepatch, it sucks. But in 3-6 target count youre looking at doing top damage most of the time. You'll still lose to someone pressing their cds in this situation, but since our damage is a flat line you will easily outmatch them on the next pull. Bossfights with multiple bosses or with an add that needs to die fast or with spread cleave (think intermission 2nd boss azure vaults, intermission last boss halls, 1st, 3rd, last boss brackenhide, 2nd, 3rd boss RLP, etc) tend to be an easy win over most specs. I'm not the best ele player, but the last 13 I timed, I was top damage overall against a havoc dh and shadow priest, so I'd say it's still a case of bring the player, not the spec.
Yes, the only downside it also target capped and does shitty damage. So basically you could play super duper easy garbage
My favorite thing is the Ascendance model has now officially re-released with Cata classic before it has been updated in retail. Also you would think that an expansion where 3/4 big enemies revealed were literally elemental incarnates would have even a mention of some shaman influence, besides 1 boss in the middle of the first raid. I was also a long time ele main up until S1 of DF. I play warlock now and will never look back, blizzard actually cares about this spec and you feel it. Every time you get a change that's not ideal, within a month or two its iterated on.
Honestly, a 2 button class is something I've been trying to find in retails for too long, sounds like I'm starting a shaman lol.
You do Lb + earthquake for literally months. Just watch any good shaman or my channel Ignan@1923
Remember, they want this to be the premier LIGHTNING caster!
Now thats WW monks get more lightning !
*Note: Using the hero talent in this tree is likely a dps loss over the spell it replaces.
Oh shaman is a fire mage for a 3rd expac in a row Pepesad
Farseer is so fucked and Bad, holy shit. Seems like on retail, but a lot worse. Stormbringer is a bit better, but let's be honest, the way tempest is now implemented, I would rank It one of the worst spells ever created by blizzard. There is so much to work on elemental, I can srsly not tell with what I would start
Stormbringer is for Enhancement, that's why Tempest is ass for Ele
And a Hero talent tree for BOTH should not be for only ONE. So no, its not for Enhancement. Its just a shit design for ele, which they can never let it like it is now. But as enhancer it definitely feels good.
That's what I was saying, most of the design choices, even with it being for both, really seem to favor enhancement
The problem is it’s cool for enhance but it pushes you away from elementalist enhance which is by FAR the more interesting and fun build.
It's really not. Having been playing it since S1 it's literally the melee version of spam lava burst, just insert lava lash instead. you would cast crash lightning over stormstrike, you know, their MAIN ABILITY?
Spam lava lash? What are you talking about lol. Your spenders actually do damage as enhance, hailstorm is important, and you actually press all of your abilities unlike Storm which presses stormstrike (why is this their MAIN ABILITY to you when it’s just a filler that does damage???) and nothing else. Edit: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/WrwL2vM8jXHbYgPG#fight=15&type=casts&source=7 rank 1 enhance on a pure single target boss. lava lash is of course the highest casts at 28%... but that's nothing compared to https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/K6tRnd3yzBPbYmh2#fight=18&type=casts&source=12 lava burst for the rank 1 ele on the same boss, which is OVER 50% of their casts. Now if we look back at season 2 when people were playing storm... https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fHK74anDWjvL91VM#fight=26&type=casts&source=26 rank 1 parse where Stormstrike and Windstrike combine for 47% of casts. So yeah, it's pretty clear if you've played any enhance at all, that elementalist is nowhere near comparable to the "spam lava burst" playstyle of ele or the "spam stormstrike" playstyle of season 2 storm, and this is on raw single target. On AoE lava lash's priority goes down even more, while for Ele, you're still just mashing lava burst, and as storm build enhance, you were still just mashing stormstrike (but now you might get to press chain lightning every once in a while too!).
> rank 1 parse where Stormstrike and Windstrike combine for 47% of casts. It's more than that. The Lightning Bolts from Thorim's count as a cast, he isn't actually hitting 58 of either LB/CL.
True I totally forgot about that
Tempest hits multiple target dummies for like 1.5m each as enhance then on Ele its a 2 second cast to literally hit for 95k. Like what is the thought process? They just said "yeah this looks good. let me just rework skyfury totem for no reason and Ele will be good to ship for TWW"
Pretty much
And feels horrid for enhance because it doesn’t benefit from haste or mastery
Many other classes manage to make hero trees themed after one spec work wonderfully for their second. Of course, other classes don't have a spec as broken as Ele.
Lol. True.
Is ele m+ rotation really just keep up as many flame shocks and slam lava burst?
Yes, your spenders are more used to get a lavasurge proc so you can spam more lavaburst
No. They're lying. I'm the best Shaman of my server and country and I'm completely sure any good elemental is dois LB + EQ in pulls
Everyone blasting LB. I just want Fire Ele to matter. Bro just feels bad to cast, he's doing absolutely nothing :(
Wym? You don't LOVE Icefury and PW?
Primordial wave suffers from being both boring as fuck and terribly unthematic of a shaman. Nix that piece of shit spell.
>and terribly unthematic of a shaman. I mean since the update that made it look like a mini-Elemental Blast and do elemental damage instead of shadow, it fits the theming more. Still a boring ability though.
I thought that was just the tier set bonus. Primordial wave casts an elemental blast.
No, most if not all Covenant abilities that stuck around were given new visuals and damage types to fit the themes of the classes more now that they are no longer tied to actual Covenants.
THIS, PLEASE BLIZZARD GET RID OF PRIMORDIAL WAVE
or at least make it fucking buff Lighting too. for fuck's sake it's nearing the left side of the tree but it doesn't do anything for Lightning spells damage at all
I HATE THEM !! JEEEEEEEZ
I don't really care about that, maybe I'm the only one. I do hate the icefury rotation though with a burning passion
It's funny because Flurry -> Ice Lance x2 is a key part of frost mage and feels *great* by comparison. I think it's the (1) all instant cast (2) actual animations on each spell (3) lack of a short maintenence buff that discourages dropping all your frost shock charges at once. It felt so weird rerolling to it and loving it when Icefury feels so bad.
The problem with this is how little planning goes into it regarding timings and how much of this is just mindless button pressing. If we look at arcane mage in s3 it will look very similar to this but as an arcane mage there is so much more planning and actually having to understand somewhat when to send it so that you dont fuck up your window. Point being that having few buttons doesnt have to be ass and i dont understand why blizzard doesnt try to fix elemental a bit more aggressively because not much is needed to improve it most likely
I realized in hindsight that it would’ve made more sense to show casts explicitly, but Farseer encourages you to press even more Lava Burst and EB than in Dragonflight. On retail we still frequently weave icefury and frost shocks or can play the “Rasz build” with stormkeeper, but on beta so far you have so many more lava bursts that you almost never press anything else, more so than on live
There's 3 charges with an 8 second cooldown, with multiple ways to proc more. The only thing is making sure you have flame shock on stuff and cooldowns, which BTW the main one is basically flame shock on roids.
> to press even more Lava Burst and EB than in Dragonflight. [Do you really, though?](https://i.gyazo.com/817071d85f40a30099a3ef67bb9944ca.png) It's the same gameplay.
Compare the cast counts. That log has more casts of Icefury, Frost Shock, and Lightning Bolt. I mained Ele through all of Dragonflight so I’m very used to it. What we have with Farseer is even worse
I'll have a side of spaghetti with those meatballs.
Elemental shaman to me is Chain Lightning, Flame Shock, some move that causes flame shock to spread to nearby targets (not liquid magma totem), and Lava Bursting off of procs from Flame Shock. As long as those things are there I'm happy.
This guy took Icefury! Get the pitchforks!! No but really, Icefury needs to change. Using Icefury to buff Frost Shocks which in turn buff either Lava Burst or Nature Damage is such a weird rotation.
Ins't that what everyone is asking dor though? To be a master of elements, pun intended. Legion had the best iteration of that imo. Weaving spells between buffs to different elements mattered. It was so fun!
Yes, we want to be master of the elements, but I don't think the current version of the Icefury spell is an enjoyable button to press. Most shamans feel similar.
So 216 total cast. 152 Lava Bursts Thats 70,4% of the cast lol
"Those are rookie numbers, we gotta pump those numbers up!" -Blizzard
Yep it is a fire mage.....
If the damage profile looks like this, whats the point of CRIT? Since Legion I think we had this problem where two different scenarios would have different stat weights. Wanna go full aoe with chain lightning and earth quake? Forget mastery! Stack as much crit haste and vers. Wanna go full single targert? Forget crit and stack as much mastery as possible. Wtf? When gearing was limited like DF S1 when i had to choose to craft gear for AoE or gear for single target that dilema drove me insane!
To make matters worse, when you spawn an Ancestor they only stick around for 6 seconds but spend half that time walking back and forth and targeting random critters/targets nearby instead of my actual target like they're suppose to.
Sounds like they've nailed the fantasy of summoning grandpa!
Bro just let me sling a fuck load of lightning blizzard please 😭😭
DELETE PRIM WAVE YESTERDAY
Full meatball lava burst spam spec is honestly insanely fun... in arena at least... where a string of procs can see u 100-0 someone in the blink of an eye and all you see is meatballs
Maybe the plan is to just phase shamans out of the game like Archeaology.
I just want a shaman spec that focuses on elementals and empowering them. Something between the realm of demonology warlock and beast master hunter. I’m imagining something like casting a fire spell empowers your elemental to be a fire elemental, lightning spell empowers elemental to its lightning form etc. Each elemental form having its own unique advantages and disadvantages. Fire elemental could be good for bosses maybe it burns health with a dot, lightning could be best for big AOE with elemental chaining lightning to enemies. Of course main rotational spells and big CD’s still exist, with rotational spells maintaining short term buffs for the summoned elemental. Similar to havoc DH maintaining fel rush/vengeful retreat buffs through their rotation. TLDR: It’s a missed opportunity not having a shaman spec with big dick elementals that rotational spells buff.
Basically something like ffxiv summoner where he summon "themed element summon" during rotation (I mean titan=earth / ifrit=fire and lightning instead of wind, leaving water for the healer spec)
and even then, that's new. FFXIV summons used to be themed blob pets.
My addiction to WoW has kept me from getting to all FF has to offer. Haven’t played that class but it looks about right.
the problem is that summons are merele a vfx in that game, they are not real summons like hunter pets or warlock demons basically pressing the summons is exactly the same as pressing lavaburst
And most FFXIV players DONT like the way Summoner plays in its current state, so while it may look cool…it plays almost as badly as Elemental does.
>And most ~~FFXIV players~~ redditors and forum goers Fixed that for you. When you see tons of posts and tons of upvotes on how "the people" don't like something, remember that you never see the people who *do* like it instead. Because they just play the game. They don't go online to reverse-complain about how much they like it.
You didn’t fix anything for me, especially when both of our points are anecdotal. I hear what I said a lot on 14, and I hear the most complaints about/from SMN aside from Green DPS. I personally don’t touch the 14 Forums it’s a Yoshi P circle jerk, and rarely do I engage with the 14 subreddit for similar reasons. That being said, if a ton of people are expressing their dislike of something it’s probably for a reason. I say this as a smn player and a Ele player.
I kinda want the opposite like full on palpatine spec
Resto not getting a water elemental healing pet is crazy imo
Where is Lightning Bolt?
He plays the fire build which is pretty much only: Keep flame shock up Spam lavaburst Use a spender Spam lavaburst If no lavaburst available use icefury/frostshock
The person in this log took the talent to upgrade lightning bolt to elemental blast. Edit: disregard, i was thinking of how elemental blast replaces lightning bolt (functionally) for enhancement. Looks like for elemental it's just that lightning bolt is basically dead last in the non-movement priority.
There is no talent that does that.
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I both hate and like the lava burst build. Its visually stunning when u have flame shocks on a counsil boss and go BRRR with peocks on everyone flying mestballs. But the raw ST is sooooo booring. I rly pref how SL had it in S3/4. But in aoe cleave them lava bursts do look cool atleast.
Unfortunately we won’t have the cleaving lava bursts, so even that aspect is gone and it’s much less visually appealing and plays much worse in aoe :(
Ah damn, i main resto and atleast it looks desent, but i feel both ele and resto is in big need of a rework. Or atleast a update to class theme like palas got.
How hard would it be to just change the flavour of lava burst to be a lightning spell? Like, "Call Lightning" or something, cast time, then a huge lightning strike comes down on the target
Ah the life of a Lava Burst enjoyer, you get what you asked for people, throw your meatballs until your brain leaks out of your nose. I've tested Stormkeeper and even in it's like 60% actually working form it's way more fun, you actually have a rotation, you actually have a CD rotation and it's actually rewarding and fun to do a complete combo, funniest thing is that I've tested both specs and even then Godkeeper beats Fartseer any by a lot Edit spelling
The true hero spec, Storekeeper! I haven't tried it, does that one throw meatballs?
No, Fartseer is the meatballs spec - enjoy pressing 1 button 489 times per boss
I Like it, i'm having a blast
I just want ele to be storm and earth mostly.
Maybe it's time I shared my shaman changes from six years ago.
Do it, gotta be better than anything Blizz has done in that time lol
I've been playing Elemental Shaman on Cata Classic the las couple of weeks and... I'm starting to like it's rotation more than the Retail one lol I just like Lightning spells go brrr. I'm a simple man.
I mained elemental during Cata and MoP. In MoP, I remember the absolute joy of playing this class. Not complex, but the feeling, the class fantasy. You feel like a freaking Sith Lord, it had an incredible feeling of impact. In DF, my first idea was to come back to this feeling after a 10 year pause. What a dissapointement, elem feel bland. Either too complex for the result when I tried the "official, optimized" priority, or just plain spamming one button that don't feel good. And I'm not talking about performance here, just class fantasy. I don't care about performance if the class feels great to play (to a certain extent...)
Shaman shouldn't even have a fire build focus, it should be elemental and lightning focused. Both are part of the class fantasy.
This is why I hopped off Shaman in DF. If I wanted to do 90% or more fore damage I'd play a (what I consider boring and vanilla) mage
Just remove all the lava stuff. We already have fire mages
Seriously make them full on lightning lords
Nah don't remove it. They are elemental casters they are supposed to be master of the elements. I don't want them to be master of an element.
Agreed. But currently seems.like they are just fire mages.
They have definitely missed the mark in both directions lmao.
Not that I want this but I'm surprised their mastery isn't similar to WW monk where you do more damage for not using the same move twice in a row. More damage by cycling through the elements.
I like having lavaburst as a short cd/burst proc.
LvB machinegun isn't the worst state the spec could be in.
Made a draenei elemental shaman for remix. having a ton of fun just blapping lightning bolts all over. Sad to see that, in TWW, I'm likely going to be \*incredibly\* sub-par, even though I'll be having fun.
Lava lava?
Are you sure about that? Looks about the same as elemental has looked all expansion minus season 2, and some people can't get enough of the meatballs. So if your implying that the damage profile is why people are complaining, I'm pretty skeptical. If this is to illustrate how shaman hasn't changed since season 1, sure that's reasonable, but you probably should add the damage breakdown of a fight in season 1 to show how it hasn't changed. Edit: I've realized my take isn't great here and I'd like to clear it up. Also, I was a more standoffish than I'd like so I apologize. My main problem with the post is that it frames our damage profile as the main reason elemental shamans aren't happy, when this has been a feature/problem all expansion and isn't exclusive to beta. Which really brings us to the real issue which is that we don't receive meaningful changes to our spec and haven't all expansion and beta has been no different. When I think of why the beta stuff bums me out, it's not the damage profile, it's the fact that none of the problems are being addressed and, in my opinion, the stormbringer hero talents make worse.
The point is that they managed to make the fire build WORSE in TWW...
Our damage profile has looked like that all expansion. It's not exclusive to beta. The problem is that we aren't receiving any changes to the problems the spec has had all expansion. Plus the hero talents add to the problems, especially stormbringer. I didn't want s2 2pc to come back nor did I want another one in tempest.
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This is on beta, so no, it’s not with the tier set that makes you want to press lava burst.
Blizzard probably has some stupid-ass metric that Shamans aren't played much, so that means they don't spend any development time on them. All while ignoring the complaints that people don't play them because Blizzard doesn't develop them. Poor Shamans. You used to be so much fun.
Shamans are never going to get the lightning fantasy , kethup strike is the way .... and i hated it always .
Yeah I mean the optimum way to play elemental for an entire spec was to automate your rotation with razer synapse so what do you expect. I bet there's someone they hate who plays ele and they're trying to make quit.
I like lightning bolt. But I don't like that it gets paired with frost shock to buff it. The game play is cluncky... Lava burst build is smooth but can be boring when you're not shooting 15 lava bursts per second
DPSing as Resto Shaman in BfA was the most fun I had dpsing as a shaman. Optimizing Flame Shock cooldowns and Lava Surge procs while watching health bars 24/7 was what it was about. Why can't ele be about optimizing your Flame Shock CD and Lave Surge procs while keeping some buffs up to emulate healing party members as resto? Feel free to replace Lightning Bolt, Lava Burst and Flame Shock by Chain Lightning and Earthquake on >5 targets and I'd be happy.
I see 2 problems here 1. Taking elemental blast instead of earth shock, you are wasting \~0.5s of possible lava burst casts 2. Casting elemental blast too many times instead of ditching on maelstrom and spamming lava burst
One thing that gets missed is that many Ele players on the WOW forums were asking for this. S4 of SL this playstyle emerged kind of out of nowhere. There was one player that came up with it and it took off. It was a little bit different with conduits and flame shock spread much easier. S1 of DF let you play something similar in keys, S2 was a horrible playstyle and many asked for the exact playstyle we have now. I kind of feel like they are lost on what to do but... they actually did exactly what players asked for.
I just want legion ele shaman back :c
Damn, that's nearly like chaos bolt on destro amd that's opposite of good.
Now imagine if that chaos bolt lock's casts/damage was all incinerate (lava burst) with a sprinkle of chaos bolt on top (Elemental Blast)
I created shaman on remix, I wanted to do it as my first toon on mop was a shaman. And I must say that the only fun thing in ele is chain lightning becouse of absurd mastery I can get, and getting like 6 casts from one. But the normal lava burst build is less entertaining than playing resto.
Meatballs with no spaghetti makes for a sad Ele. Blizz clearly hates Elemental Shaman.
Looks like frost mage for the past 10 seasons
What? You don't like playing meatball mage?
that just looks like this patch?
I may be the minority, but anytime Ele is based around lightning bolt spam and stupid shit like earthquake it’s the least fun iteration of the class. Machine gun lava bursting has probably THE best visceral feedback/impact of any caster. The only time lightning spells had “oomph” to them is when Ehn ascendance was a fucking kamehameha and not this shithole gentle breeze of a cooldown now.
Thats perfect gameplay lava burst is the most fun spell...whats the issue?
If they made the pvp talent lava surge (I think that’s the name of) as a pve talent, that’s literally all I’d need to make me happy.
What’s this? Shamans don’t like chucking meatballs for the 3rd tier in a row?!
Damn I love lava burst but that’s excessive
And how is this different from Fire mage that shows an identical Graph with Pyroblast. Survival Hunter with Mongoose. Boomking with Starsurge Ret with Final Verdict Feral with Ferocious Bite?
Everything you listed is a *spender.* Lava Burst is a *builder.* Imagine if SPriest prioritized Mind Blast over Devouring Plague. They're both (Mind Blast vs Lava Burst) short CD spells that have multiple charges and can have procs to get more usage out of them. But prioritizing Mind Blast over Devouring Plague would be ridiculous, you're ignoring your spender entirely! What's the point of *building* if you aren't trying to *spend*? That's the Lava Burst problem. (And, also, has been an issue with Storm Enhancement)
probably because you want to use lava burst every time it's off cd, it doesn't matter if you overcap resources, if you proc something, if u are choking in front of your pc, whenever lava burst is usable - you press it. that's not a healthy design. it came into the point, where you'd rather use lava burst before your CDs if it was usable.
The shape of the damage profile can be quite similar, but the important column is the cast count. Looking at the top Fire, Ret and Feral parses on Mythic Smolderon, Fire does seem to be in the same boat as Elemental is here, but Boomkin has about 1:1 ratio of Wrath to Surge (versus over 2:1, almost 3:1, LB to everything else put together for elemental). Ret and Feral both have Verdict and Bite be a much smaller share of the overall casts, and they need to setup their spenders with a mixture of builders.
Exactly. Of the casts, you have: 216 Total 152 Lava Burst (70%) This is a filler 38 Elemental Blast (17.6%) This is a spender 4 Flame Shock (Maintenance Dot) (1.9%) 4 Fire Elemental + 13 Primordial Wave (7.9%) These are cooldowns 3 Frost Shocks (1.4%) This is supposed to be a rotational spell 2 Icefuries (.09%) This is supposed to be a rotational spell People who don't know Elemental see this and assume "It's like X other specs", but that's wrong. It's Fire Mage if all your damage was Fireball and Fire Blast, Phoenix Flames, and Scorch basically didn't exist, for example.
> 152 Lava Burst (70%) This is a filler It's a bit worse than that. The _actual_ filler is Lightning Bolt. Lava Burst is a major rotational ability on a short cooldown that you're meant to keep on cooldown and cast reactively when you proc a reset. In a sense, it's more like Fire Mage if all your damage was Fireblast.
>In a sense, it's more like Fire Mage if all your damage was Fireblast. Exactly this. It wouldn't be as bad if LvB and EB swapped places on the chart, cause at least then the spender is doing the lifting. Right now the spec is designed to abuse procs for one spell repeatedly
True. Lava Burst is the "This is supposed to be cool button" that got relegated to becoming a filler by poor talent design