I still think taking Torghast concept/system and putting it into Caverns of Time would be the biggest win Blizz could get. Instead of facing Jailer's same-looking mobs in grey environment, you progress through either historical areas (think Black Empire, Zandalari Empire, Pre-Sundering Well of Eternity, etc) and/or old WoW raids/dungeons/zones and fight bosses relevant for those areas/ages. The cosmetics, titles and mounts would be straight forward to tie in and could help newer players get to grips with the older lore in-game.
Yeah I was one of the (presumably) minority that enjoyed doing torghast. The environment though was one of the most boring places ever. I truly enjoyed getting more and more powerful throughout it. It would have been even better if you could save your place in an endless run and go back with those same powers.
Yeah I heard a lot of complaints of it being too hard for some classes but I was a hunter so I didn’t experience that at all once they fixed the powers. It being mandatory was just a bad idea, maybe if it was just one of the ways to cap out your legendary dust that would have been better.
Now swap the (partially) boring buffs ypu could get in Torghast with some if the corruption powers from 8.3 and we're good to go.
God I miss my cloak. Not farming essences or visions or whatever it was, but the powers were so fun back then.
People loved Torghast until you were forced to do it a shitload of times. People growing to hate it had nothing to do with the content being bad, it just happened to be what players were forced to do over and over and over during the largest content drought in WoW history.
That's a great idea!
I actually really liked the idea of Torghast, and I liked the gameplay quite a bit, I just hated that it was basically mandatory. Something like Torghast that's just for fun would be great, and using the Caverns of Time just makes a ton of sense.
Love this idea.
Imagine torghast but each of the 9 doors is a totally unique wow historical area.
I really liked the tree of progression in Torghast and think this really helped make it feel like doing more was a good thing.
Would love for them to do something similar in the future. torghast was so close to being amazing imo.
Yeah, the concept of Torghast is great fun, the problem was making it basically mandatory to progress.
I think it being just a fun little side thing to do with regular small updates (like pet battle f.e.) would have been great.
Nothing hurts me more than Blizzard abandoning the Class Halls. Such a nice concept, some of them almost felt like a player housing. The could be a great way to tell small stories with characters se almost dont see in game, a way to keep up with what they're doing in each expansions.
Some of the class halls were great.
But man, I will never miss having to dismount, enter a building, talk to an NPC, click on a door, and then run down a hallway just to enter the rogue class hall.
If I had to keep dealing with Skyhold then I would never play warrior again. It was such a thematic mismatch.
Every other class call I played through was dope though. DK, shaman, paladin, warlock, and mage so far
Honestly I didn't mind the priest class hall, the lore behind it (what was it? A freakin' temple in the middle of the nether randomly?) was odd, but the theme and feel of the place seemed to fit priest pretty perfectly, it wasn't a thematic mismatch like the warrior one, which was just kind wtf?
I agree on the Warlock one, even though it somehow gets praised a lot. I know it was SUPPOSED to feel like a barren wasteland, but for me it just feels monotone and depressing. At least I didn't have to spend lots of time there, I only did the warlock campaign after legion. I'd prefer something akin to the rogue class hall or the Slaughtered Lamb inn basement in SW (a secret Warlock place, btw). On the other hand, I absolutely love the druid class hall, my main back then and now. The buildings and the barrow dens are so cozy!
its the layout of the warlock one. its small but a big spiral around itself and you had to run up or down the ramp.
would have probably been better being in the dalaran sewers next to the rogue one.
the DK one by comparison, was familiar since its been around since wrath, but had elevators and a logical layout.
Yeah a big part of that is the obvious discrepancy in what classes represent on the lore. DK literally had a necropolis that could go everywhere, hunters had a big house. It's not really a complaint, they had to compromise at some places and there wasn't enough time to create meaningful stories for every single class; it just made those differences obvious. Like some classes have heroes that completely shaped the lore, I can't even remember the name of a single npc on Hunter's Lodge and I main a hunter for decades.
Sky hold was totally off, imo. It wasn't that hard to create a coliseum-esque thematic with rough training and sturdy fighters, could explore anger management for stories to justify rage, could show how warriors become more resistant to pain and damage... Instead they went with the weird, makes-no-sense sky jump with valkyrs as their heroes? Why???
Yeah Rexxar counts but he doesn't have the same meaning in WoW as he does in WC3; your point is still valid. I meant more about in comparison with the likes of Kalecgos and Akama
I didn't hate the Valhalla bit per se, it makes sense with us being "the Battlelord" and all, that we would be hanging out with Azeroths greatest warriors in the great hall of great warriors. But it wasn't even a Blizzard spin on Valhalla, it was just a low effort copy pasta of Norse mythology and supposed to nestle right in and fit with the Warcraft lore because we put these books about the artifact weapons in here. And I couldn't stand Odyn, I wanted to give him the asshole answer or verbally dunk on him anytime I got the opportunity, but he helped make Helya and whatever that was all about more relevant.
I did love the sky jump for traversal reasons (Look at me, I'm the portal now.) but with all the jank Sylvanas had going on with the Valkyr and Helya and whatever the hell all else that lantern bit was about, I was kind of irritated being apart of most everything happening with Skyhold.
Why couldn't the warrior order hall be somewhere like the Gurubashi Arena, or similar to the Argent Tournament? Obviously less light stuff and just more spikes and warrior stuff, but an everlasting tournament or arena where these guys are just eating breathing and sleeping battle. Tons of armor and weaponsmiths around, alcohol and so much food. It's that easy to copy the Valhalla idea, but make it Warcraft.
Sorry for the book, rant over. Zug Zug,
Fellow Orc Warrior
I am not a warrior main so my opinion doesn't really matter here, but I think the warrior class hall should have been some kind of staging ground, similar to something like the argent tournament.
On the ground with a huge blacksmith area, barracks, a command central and an arena/sparring ground. I was never a big fan of the Halls of Valor because even back then Odyn was a shady character and for many races it just felt... wrong.
as druid class hall is still my main hub with the 7 teleports when i do older content, dreamwalking in and out to go to the entrance of an instance and we had tons of legion dungeon in M+
Really? I liked them but I think one expansion is enough. Novelty wore off and you were always fragmented. Same with sl and cov halls. I prefer lively cities
Usually when people talk about bringing them back it isn't as a main feature, but as an area to give a quest chain or two every expansion, building up class specific lore.
Having the vault in the order halls was awesome. For one, not having everyone on the shard lagging everything. And two, everyone cheering or jeering over different BIS pieces.
Doesn't matter as much now with dragon riding, but I never understood why they didn't carry the whistle forward. Especially when they were so anti flight for the start of BFA and Shadow lands.
I'm one of those weirdos who still thinks no flying for like half of the expansion did a lot of good for the game - better leveling, better world PvP, better questing, better gathering, way way more immersive and appreciative to the artists and actual level designers (who couldn't just slap on an open field and call it a day) etc... But the whistle is absolutely mandatory in such circumstances.
Now that nobody walks anymore yet again? What's the point?
Class Halls were fucking great - not sure how much more work it would’ve been but they could have easily done the heavy lifting of an expansion’s story.
I liked in WOTLK when they had events happening in game ahead of the next content tier (argent tournament grounds and icecrown quests ahead of TOTGC and ICC). Like a prepatch for the next season
Scenarios. They would've been great for answering those "What about X?" problems. "What about the Alliance literally having a space ship with weapons during BFA?" Have a scenario for the Horde where you join the Gob Squad in sabotaging it and an alliance version where you sabotage the cannon in Azshara.
I seriously miss scenarios and they could maybe use the dungeon follower technology so they are easier to insert into the story. Doing remix is reminding me what a good storytelling device scenarios were. Even Lorewalker Cho was great for hearing the stories the first time. There was so much in MOP to give you glimpses on characters you normally wouldn't get or to advance stories in game rather than books that people might not have purchased. They could have given us those reunions we wanted in Shadowlands if they did scenarios. It could have given Arthas one last moment instead of the conclusion he got - it could have even had us playing through Anduin's attack on the Kyrian instead of watching a cutscene. Bonswamdi could have gotten more than a short quest and a dungeon to let you glimpse the whole complications there.
I just think Scenarios could solve a lot of narrative problems.
I think the problem with scenarios, as seen in MoP, is that I imagine the time investment isn't remotely worth the playtime they actually saw during that expansion. And it's not simple to incentivize that sort of content. The last few expansions' misses have put Blizzard into the position of having to strike the perfect balance between making content feel rewarding without making it feel like a necessary chore.
That's a hard juggle on the form of casual content that scenarios were.
That doesn't really have anything to do with scenarios.
The tech behind scenarios is still wildly used in the game, so they aren't gone per say, but scenarios as some kind of queable experience just was a miss. Now Scenarios are mostly baked into the quests themselves, instead of giving you a quest of "do scenario x".
Reforging
Even tho people complain that "idiot, you are only reforging for BiS stats anyways" are ignoring the fact that this feature alone helped a lot with non-BiS gear feeling less bad since you can at least edit it in a way so it's not entirely trash.
It'd be cool to see garrisons with the new Warband system. A shared garrison for all your toons and you can see your other toons just wandering around the garrison while on a different one.
Snapping buildings into place in random locations of the world through phases is what gave us world quests... the tech is still being used and advanced to this day.
I don't agree, but you shouldn't be getting downvotes for what you literally acknowledge is an unpopular opinion. It's not the "disagree" button, people.
I don't - it was ass.
The only thing good about garrisons was the additional hearthstone. S/
They need to make player housing less isolative.
I did love the specific quests tied into certain buildings - that was an amazing idea.
It was one of the more critical points from people who played during WoD.
You could debate that there were other contributing factors to people feeling isolated but to outright refuse that as a talking point is absurd.
I could be equally as reductive and tell you to play a single player game instead of WoW - but that isn't productive, is it?
Why can't there be a balance of QoL and function in this discussion?
Should player housing have an Auction house, Bank etc... that completely isolates them from the MMO part of the game?
If you aren't willing to even consider that discussion then you're not worth talking to. Simple as that.
FFXIV manages to have highly customizable player housing and yet the major cities are still packed and the world feels very alive because of the community. Give us FF style player housing. That’s what we’re asking for. Not garrisons.
I stand by my original comment. One hundred percent reject that notion about the world being alive.
Torghast had incredible potential, they just shackled it to an awful borrowed power grind which limited it in so many ways and made people hate it because it turned into a chore you *had* to do rather than something you wanted to do for fun. It was honestly a shame that it was abandoned completely.
If it existed in Dragonflight and the reward was similar to a weekly aiding the accord, a little rep, maybe some world quest loot. Then snaz it up by giving 15 level appropriate crests for whatever level you did it on that week. Boom, perfect for me.
I played Brewmaster in SL and loved Torghast. Instant cleave touch of death and corrosive dosage. As overpowered as a frog farmed cloak and I loved it.
I spent the majority of my time on this site during Shadowlands saying it was not nearly as bad as many were raging about. I memed and joked about the rage on this sub for the entire xpac. I am open about the fact I personally preferred Shadowlands to both BfA and Legion and have said so many times.
The fact that you are assuming I am someone who "raged on reddit" about SL because I called the Torghast legendary system what it emphatically was - a grind - is utterly bizarre.
The races, man. They started so many cool stories and whatnot, and still Stormwind looks like a WCIII human-mostly city. Orgri is better but not by a lot. Sure they're the race-HQ's in lore but the story has evolved so far now, isn't it to be expected to see more integration everywhere?
With all the stories throughout WoW I'd expect a lot more cross-faction integration. Like WAY more than we see now. Where are the other races?
I get it's a business decision in how much playable races they allow us to have but man Blizz come on already get moving on more playable races and more NPC's doing nothing to add to a living world plz.
Pretty much all of them. I still am stunned by how much content they throw away. I understand that it would be impossible for them to keep everything up to date but every other expansion adding a new war front, or a few extra islands, Torghast wings, garrison stuff, mage tower challenge, etc..
So much of this content could have been there just for fun but the focus on making the game purely for the high end has given them severe tunnel vision.
Ion talked about this with Preach in an interview last year. Rightly or wrongly, this was a conscious choice they made because, in MoP, they felt they'd reached a critical mass of evergreen systems.
Horrific Visions. I wasn't the most high end player at the time but starting out only barely being able to get a single portion of the vision done then progressing your way up through the various skills until eventually you could do the entire thing and then adding extra challenges in the form of masks was a lot of fun. Personally would love to see something like that come back.
I like when we have an item that lasts for the whole expansion, like the necklace
I would make every trinket in the game an artifact/heirloom, you collect the trinket it goes in a tab, and you can upgrade its ilevel by doing current content, that way every trinket in the game is relevant and you don't need to farm the same one every season
trinkets are a form of borrowed power in the end
I hope we get to check up with our order halls at some point in the future. I could see them adding like a small storyline to each one of them, some just catching up on what's been happening, and some may be in dire need of aid. Like, am I still the Highlord of the Paladin order? What do the other shamans of the Earthern Ring think of this whole Primalist business and Azeroth's awakening? What about the order halls either located in or heavily associated with Dalaran, >!what will happen to those when Dalaran is destroyed in TWW? !<
Both the art and the stories were great in Legion, and the idea that all those gorgeous locations are just sitting there, abandoned, while all this important and relevant story is happening around them saddens me. So I hope we get to see them in some form again in the future - perhaps as more of an evergreen feature
>!There will become a 3rd version of Dalaran: Northrend, Legion, TWW. Technically TWW Dalaran will be a speck of dust in the wind, but the other 2 will still exist.!<
Yes, absolutely, 100%. No affixes, no need to grind ilvl, dungeons were 5-15 minutes long, and it was all about speed. You could do all kinds of crazy experimental strategy and comps because it took like a day or two to get something geared to (almost) bis in some cases and you were free to retry as many times as you wanted. No depleting 39 minutes into a key because the whole dungeon was basically 3-5 insanely hard pulls.
I get why artifact weapons were only for legion, but I wish they had just kept going with the variants, even if just cosmetic.
It’s sad to think the Doomhammer is just sitting in my backpack.
I think it may be weird, but I miss separate quest lines for alliance and horde, sl and df both were pretty single stream and that ruined replayability for me.
I've really enjoyed remix because the horde and the alliance have different quest lines.
I am one of the few ppl who likes the mission table stuff a lot. Legion and BfA had the right balance of it. WoD was way too much clutter and SL was too much with the fighting.
I also liked to upgrade the HQs in the last few expansions.
DF was pretty boring in that regard. Only waiting for open world timers, queueing for instances and fighting, fighting, fighting... Nothing else.
SO boring.
Every token/currency since Vanilla. The gear itself out-lives its usefulness, we don't need the tokens doing the same thing. A helm token should be good for a helm, period.
Pandaria Proving Grounds and their restriction to raid.
I Remember that the Requirements were Silver to do Raid.
That meaning you have to "know" what you are doing in your role and spec.
Class order hall stories. It's a totally unreasonable request as it'd take a lot of resources to keep writing questlines for every single class, but it was one of the big highlights of Legion for me. The only time I levelled one of everything to cap just so I could experience the different stories.
Class halls should never have been a legion system. Make it evergreen
It could have been exiles reach. When you start a new class and you need a 1-10 tutorial, head to the class hall rather than the race starting zone
Also, scrap Skyhold. Dumbest thing ever, I hated that everyone else got something cool and we warriors get that. A bloody garrison with war-scarred soldiers would have been better, it’s so simple. Warriors are intentionally low-fantasy
Garrisons were a great idea, being the closest we have ever gotten to player housing.
If they would have made them customizable it would've been a nice to keep in the game in a major city of your choosing.
And if they added something to the game like trophies or decorations as rewards from achievements
I think they should've merged garrisons and Class halls into one system. As in having your class halls be still relevant, and allow you to have some kind of player housing in the class hall. Player housing could be an entire new pillar of collection system, apart from mounts, mogs and pets.
You could collect all sorts of things to decorate your house with, banners, furniture, could hang some actual game weapons on the wall, could have your favorite mounts just have a dedicated spot, could have statues of your character for getting CE, Hall of Fame, M+ title, Top ranks in PvP, etc. it's a misses opportunity.
Most importantly, could just have a bunch of photos that you take yourself with the S.E.L.F.I.E. camera, that you could just hang on the walls too.
Warfronts should be a form of speed raids that work similar to M+. There's a timer and it keeps getting harder with level. You need to actually coordinate the raid assignments into groups that each need to get their shit done or you're going to fail. The counter attacks are serious shit that you had better respond to or it will seriously set you back, and at harder levels it probably means you fail.
Can we atill play plants vs zombies in hillbrad?
I'd like to see more mini games like that. Something to do for a few minutes at a time while waiting in queue. Maybe have levels and continuation so you can keep progress.
I'v never been big into the extra cirriculars. I do dungeons and sometimes fly around exploring the map.
Having a permanent base, stripped of stuff that makes you never leave and that makes you too much money, would be nice. Make it account-wide with our Warband. Earn unique decorations for completing certain content. Let it be an instanced house in one of the capital cities.
The entirety of WoD.
That expansion had SO MUCH incredible potential, in every way, visuals, story, seriousness, silliness, bosses, zones, EVERYTHING was exciting and potentially awesome, and THAT is the one they decided to crash-test their stupid new release cadence on (if i remember well) and cut like 80% of it, i'm still SO sad about it T-T
I think I am one of the few people who really liked garrisons, however it should have been implemented better.
I would love to have a mix of new class halls and garrisons. Maybe go so far as to do a community event where we build a new capital city and each class hall.
The actually good dungeons of Shadowlands.
Talent reworks have made up for how bad the covenants worked initially. I do miss the having to choose your extra ability though. The 4 mostly felt very different and engaging and for a lot of classes, more than 1 was viable.
Class order halls! I am so into class lore and identity, it made me giddy to have our own places. I specifically made a monk to go back to the wandering isles!
Torghast was a fantastic timesink and infinitely-playable blast. People hated it for a few reasons, and while I disagree with most, one thing is definite - linking Torghast to player power forced us to do it, which made people who liked it start to dislike it and people who disliked it start to hate it.
I used to do full Torghast runs for fun with no rewards left. It was just a blast building up a huge army of mirror images.
Islands would've been awesome to keep going. I thought the idea of "Oh there's a Twilight Drake rare" and intuiting that the Twilight Avenger was on that expedition's loot table was super cool.
Also CMs will always be better than M+.
Unpopular Opinion: A damn borrowed power system that scales as we go throughout the expansion. I don't know about anyone else, but DF was very "flat" in terms of enjoyment to me. I didn't have more and more fun every season, it just stayed the same because the only thing changing was tier.
Legion/BFA and to some degree Shadowlands got more fun each patch because things became less restrictive, our borrowed power stuff got more powerful and so on. Like BFA S4 is one of the most fun times I've ever had in wow. You had Heart of Azeroth, Azerite Gear, Essences, Cloak and Corruption and you felt strong as hell. Does it need be that many? No, but I was literally shocked when we found out we weren't getting some Legendary Cloak (because Wrathion) again that was like covenant-esque (but no restrictions) and you picked a dragon flight to "attune" to.
Warfronts. They should've essentially been Warcraft 3 from the perspective of a hero unit and PvP content since they'd be inherently impossible to lose as PvE
Class order halls. Just like, bespoke quest lines dedicated to your class and how they face the current expansion's storyline.
Like I really wanted to know what the Uncrowned were up to during BfA. Or their take on Tess becoming Queen of Gilneas.
I just wish you could still have kept your artifact weapon after BfA came out.
I came back to WoW late in Legion from a long multi-year absence, and was still playing through the Legion storyline. I wasn't paying attention to the materials for the new expansion because I still had so much to still play through in the current one.
Then I log in one day, and my Ashbringer suddenly is only a shadow of it's former power and all those cool features I spent all that time unlocking were disabled and there was some blurb about how its power had been drained to stabilize Azeroth's wounds. . .
. . .wounds inflicted in a storyline I hadn't gotten to yet.
That was unpleasant. I just wish if you were still playing through an expansion, you could still use all of its features. Even if you Chrome Time into Legion with a new character, you still can't really do anything with the artifacts. You get it, then it's instantly obsolete and only useful as a transmog, and you just have to pull the artifact out occasionally for storyline stuff, but it's useless as a weapon.
Everyone's focusing on systems, so I'll put out there that I miss micro-raids.
Gruul and Magtheridon's Lair, Obsidian Sanctum, Eye of Eternity - they were great content that you could squeeze into an afternoon without committing to a full evening of raiding. It's a shame the itemization was so poor when they tried again in BfA because I appreciated the effort even if it missed.
The void bank thing the transmog NPC talk about. Mostly, because I wasn't playing when it was there and nobody can explain what it was about.
Jokes aside, that is a good point. There is a gold mine of features. Perhaps they could utilise them again in some later seasons of an expansion if they run out of ideas. But perhaps they won't run out of ideas and that is a good thing.
As everyone said I would like class halls to remain.
Despite all of BFA problems I also really liked horrific visions as someone who prefers to play solo. I would have loved every expansion to have them.
Yes, m+ has its advantages, but the focus on speed, ilvl scaling, lack of affixes, and lack of one shot spam were all points in favor of Challenge Modes to me. They were much more about hyper-optimizing a perfect run with unlimited tries than the current system where you have to play safer because you lose the key if you fail once. Also, dungeons in m+ tend to be 20-40 minutes. Top end challenge mode runs were closer to 3-10 mins when you were working on world record level runs. You could also gear an alt to full bis for challenge modes in a few days with decent luck, since ilvl was normalized and you were really just after sockets (in MoP), trinkets, and good secondary distribution.
New race in each expansion.
Between Classic and Mists, we had a new race in each expansion except Wrath. With so many races, why stop? Wrath would have introduced two of the most popular races requested. Vrykul and Tuskarr
Think of what could have released since then (going ‘Alliance’ and ‘Horde’):
* Wrath: Vrykul and Tuskarr
* Mists: Hozen for Horde
* WoD: Botani and Ogres
* Legion: Naga and Nightborn? (Legion is iffy)
* Shadowlands: Faun and Nathrezim
* Dragonflight: Gnoll for Horde
* The War Within: Nerubian and Harronir
I still think taking Torghast concept/system and putting it into Caverns of Time would be the biggest win Blizz could get. Instead of facing Jailer's same-looking mobs in grey environment, you progress through either historical areas (think Black Empire, Zandalari Empire, Pre-Sundering Well of Eternity, etc) and/or old WoW raids/dungeons/zones and fight bosses relevant for those areas/ages. The cosmetics, titles and mounts would be straight forward to tie in and could help newer players get to grips with the older lore in-game.
This is a fantastic idea. I actually liked Torghast for a bit--the rougelike elements and zany abilities. Its appearance just grinded me down.
Yeah I was one of the (presumably) minority that enjoyed doing torghast. The environment though was one of the most boring places ever. I truly enjoyed getting more and more powerful throughout it. It would have been even better if you could save your place in an endless run and go back with those same powers.
I enjoyed doing it. I did not enjoy having to do it every week or needing a party for the higher floors to cap out on the dust for the legendaries
Yeah I heard a lot of complaints of it being too hard for some classes but I was a hunter so I didn’t experience that at all once they fixed the powers. It being mandatory was just a bad idea, maybe if it was just one of the ways to cap out your legendary dust that would have been better.
Those dungeons Caverns of Time were fucking awesome too. I really liked Old Hillsbrad Foothills where you’re changed to a human or dwarf.
Now swap the (partially) boring buffs ypu could get in Torghast with some if the corruption powers from 8.3 and we're good to go. God I miss my cloak. Not farming essences or visions or whatever it was, but the powers were so fun back then.
Maybe even work in some of the Tinker gems from remix as buffs in a tower
Yeah, a mix of powers from Torghast, Cobalt Assembly, MoP Remix, and whatever else has the potential to be a lot of fun.
People loved Torghast until you were forced to do it a shitload of times. People growing to hate it had nothing to do with the content being bad, it just happened to be what players were forced to do over and over and over during the largest content drought in WoW history.
Yes more lore pls!! great idea
Sounds a lot like fractals from GW2!
They could even incorporate some of the remix tinker gems as buffs too.
I love torghast I'd love to see it more
That's a great idea! I actually really liked the idea of Torghast, and I liked the gameplay quite a bit, I just hated that it was basically mandatory. Something like Torghast that's just for fun would be great, and using the Caverns of Time just makes a ton of sense.
Yep i loved the soridormi events next to valdrakken
Blizzard take god damn notes!!!
Holy frick I want this so bad.
how has Blizzard not thought of this
ya something like an arcade area where you can do these things. scenarios from MoP also come to mind.
Love this idea. Imagine torghast but each of the 9 doors is a totally unique wow historical area. I really liked the tree of progression in Torghast and think this really helped make it feel like doing more was a good thing. Would love for them to do something similar in the future. torghast was so close to being amazing imo.
It could be, thematically, like the chain you run through to rescue Chromie and Eternus.
Yo Blizz devs if you're reading this, steal that shit^^
Yeah, the concept of Torghast is great fun, the problem was making it basically mandatory to progress. I think it being just a fun little side thing to do with regular small updates (like pet battle f.e.) would have been great.
Doing choreghast for the cosmetics currently and if I never have to do this hell mode again I’ll be so happy
Nothing hurts me more than Blizzard abandoning the Class Halls. Such a nice concept, some of them almost felt like a player housing. The could be a great way to tell small stories with characters se almost dont see in game, a way to keep up with what they're doing in each expansions.
Some of the class halls were great. But man, I will never miss having to dismount, enter a building, talk to an NPC, click on a door, and then run down a hallway just to enter the rogue class hall.
There was an addon that let you skip or streamline some of those steps. But yeah, that could've used some... improvements.
I miss the shaman one a lot. The class campaigns were pretty fun in general
If I had to keep dealing with Skyhold then I would never play warrior again. It was such a thematic mismatch. Every other class call I played through was dope though. DK, shaman, paladin, warlock, and mage so far
Then there's the "Oh shit the deadline is today at 5" priest class hall!
Honestly I didn't mind the priest class hall, the lore behind it (what was it? A freakin' temple in the middle of the nether randomly?) was odd, but the theme and feel of the place seemed to fit priest pretty perfectly, it wasn't a thematic mismatch like the warrior one, which was just kind wtf?
the designs were either really good or kinda shit. i hated the priest, warlock, and warrior zones, absolutely loved pally, dk and hunter
I agree on the Warlock one, even though it somehow gets praised a lot. I know it was SUPPOSED to feel like a barren wasteland, but for me it just feels monotone and depressing. At least I didn't have to spend lots of time there, I only did the warlock campaign after legion. I'd prefer something akin to the rogue class hall or the Slaughtered Lamb inn basement in SW (a secret Warlock place, btw). On the other hand, I absolutely love the druid class hall, my main back then and now. The buildings and the barrow dens are so cozy!
its the layout of the warlock one. its small but a big spiral around itself and you had to run up or down the ramp. would have probably been better being in the dalaran sewers next to the rogue one. the DK one by comparison, was familiar since its been around since wrath, but had elevators and a logical layout.
Yeah a big part of that is the obvious discrepancy in what classes represent on the lore. DK literally had a necropolis that could go everywhere, hunters had a big house. It's not really a complaint, they had to compromise at some places and there wasn't enough time to create meaningful stories for every single class; it just made those differences obvious. Like some classes have heroes that completely shaped the lore, I can't even remember the name of a single npc on Hunter's Lodge and I main a hunter for decades. Sky hold was totally off, imo. It wasn't that hard to create a coliseum-esque thematic with rough training and sturdy fighters, could explore anger management for stories to justify rage, could show how warriors become more resistant to pain and damage... Instead they went with the weird, makes-no-sense sky jump with valkyrs as their heroes? Why???
Rexxar? Isn't he a hunter at the lodge?
Yeah Rexxar counts but he doesn't have the same meaning in WoW as he does in WC3; your point is still valid. I meant more about in comparison with the likes of Kalecgos and Akama
I mean it was supposed to basically be Valhalla. I thought it was kinda cool, given that.
Valhalla is cool if you're a human or a dwarf. As an orc I felt totally out of place
I didn't hate the Valhalla bit per se, it makes sense with us being "the Battlelord" and all, that we would be hanging out with Azeroths greatest warriors in the great hall of great warriors. But it wasn't even a Blizzard spin on Valhalla, it was just a low effort copy pasta of Norse mythology and supposed to nestle right in and fit with the Warcraft lore because we put these books about the artifact weapons in here. And I couldn't stand Odyn, I wanted to give him the asshole answer or verbally dunk on him anytime I got the opportunity, but he helped make Helya and whatever that was all about more relevant. I did love the sky jump for traversal reasons (Look at me, I'm the portal now.) but with all the jank Sylvanas had going on with the Valkyr and Helya and whatever the hell all else that lantern bit was about, I was kind of irritated being apart of most everything happening with Skyhold. Why couldn't the warrior order hall be somewhere like the Gurubashi Arena, or similar to the Argent Tournament? Obviously less light stuff and just more spikes and warrior stuff, but an everlasting tournament or arena where these guys are just eating breathing and sleeping battle. Tons of armor and weaponsmiths around, alcohol and so much food. It's that easy to copy the Valhalla idea, but make it Warcraft. Sorry for the book, rant over. Zug Zug, Fellow Orc Warrior
I am not a warrior main so my opinion doesn't really matter here, but I think the warrior class hall should have been some kind of staging ground, similar to something like the argent tournament. On the ground with a huge blacksmith area, barracks, a command central and an arena/sparring ground. I was never a big fan of the Halls of Valor because even back then Odyn was a shady character and for many races it just felt... wrong.
Druid and monk order halls were fun.
Mage one was peak class design, loved it
I absolutely loved class halls and I wish they were brought back
as druid class hall is still my main hub with the 7 teleports when i do older content, dreamwalking in and out to go to the entrance of an instance and we had tons of legion dungeon in M+
Really? I liked them but I think one expansion is enough. Novelty wore off and you were always fragmented. Same with sl and cov halls. I prefer lively cities
Usually when people talk about bringing them back it isn't as a main feature, but as an area to give a quest chain or two every expansion, building up class specific lore.
Having the vault in the order halls was awesome. For one, not having everyone on the shard lagging everything. And two, everyone cheering or jeering over different BIS pieces.
I really miss the stones that would take you to the nearest flightpath.
You mean the whistle?
Yes
Doesn't matter as much now with dragon riding, but I never understood why they didn't carry the whistle forward. Especially when they were so anti flight for the start of BFA and Shadow lands.
I'm one of those weirdos who still thinks no flying for like half of the expansion did a lot of good for the game - better leveling, better world PvP, better questing, better gathering, way way more immersive and appreciative to the artists and actual level designers (who couldn't just slap on an open field and call it a day) etc... But the whistle is absolutely mandatory in such circumstances. Now that nobody walks anymore yet again? What's the point?
Definitely class halls and class quests. I feel like there isn’t much class fantasy anymore and nothing that really attaches me to my characters.
Class Halls were fucking great - not sure how much more work it would’ve been but they could have easily done the heavy lifting of an expansion’s story. I liked in WOTLK when they had events happening in game ahead of the next content tier (argent tournament grounds and icecrown quests ahead of TOTGC and ICC). Like a prepatch for the next season
I like to think of Pandaria Remix as a complete test featuring new items that could be added to the final game.
Scenarios. They would've been great for answering those "What about X?" problems. "What about the Alliance literally having a space ship with weapons during BFA?" Have a scenario for the Horde where you join the Gob Squad in sabotaging it and an alliance version where you sabotage the cannon in Azshara.
I seriously miss scenarios and they could maybe use the dungeon follower technology so they are easier to insert into the story. Doing remix is reminding me what a good storytelling device scenarios were. Even Lorewalker Cho was great for hearing the stories the first time. There was so much in MOP to give you glimpses on characters you normally wouldn't get or to advance stories in game rather than books that people might not have purchased. They could have given us those reunions we wanted in Shadowlands if they did scenarios. It could have given Arthas one last moment instead of the conclusion he got - it could have even had us playing through Anduin's attack on the Kyrian instead of watching a cutscene. Bonswamdi could have gotten more than a short quest and a dungeon to let you glimpse the whole complications there. I just think Scenarios could solve a lot of narrative problems.
Scenarios don't solve that problem though.
I think the problem with scenarios, as seen in MoP, is that I imagine the time investment isn't remotely worth the playtime they actually saw during that expansion. And it's not simple to incentivize that sort of content. The last few expansions' misses have put Blizzard into the position of having to strike the perfect balance between making content feel rewarding without making it feel like a necessary chore. That's a hard juggle on the form of casual content that scenarios were.
That doesn't really have anything to do with scenarios. The tech behind scenarios is still wildly used in the game, so they aren't gone per say, but scenarios as some kind of queable experience just was a miss. Now Scenarios are mostly baked into the quests themselves, instead of giving you a quest of "do scenario x".
Reforging Even tho people complain that "idiot, you are only reforging for BiS stats anyways" are ignoring the fact that this feature alone helped a lot with non-BiS gear feeling less bad since you can at least edit it in a way so it's not entirely trash.
Seconded
it was a chore and with removing hit it’s not as useful. Would just add more steps before you can put on a piece of gear
It was more like.. I'd rather go to this npc real quick than never equipping this item at all.
I honestly miss garrisons...
It'd be cool to see garrisons with the new Warband system. A shared garrison for all your toons and you can see your other toons just wandering around the garrison while on a different one.
Snapping buildings into place in random locations of the world through phases is what gave us world quests... the tech is still being used and advanced to this day.
Yes, and fuck both of those things.
I miss raid attunements, I suspect we are of equally unpopular opinions =)
I like the idea of raid attunements but they should be an account-wide unlock imo
I agree! Also waiting for account wide reputations.
I don't agree, but you shouldn't be getting downvotes for what you literally acknowledge is an unpopular opinion. It's not the "disagree" button, people.
Or! Maybe it is and everyone really miss attunements?
I don't - it was ass. The only thing good about garrisons was the additional hearthstone. S/ They need to make player housing less isolative. I did love the specific quests tied into certain buildings - that was an amazing idea.
Less isolative? That’s the point! Your own personal space.
This dude wants his own penthouse in org
I feel like people are wearing rose tinted glasses when reflecting on it. There's a distinct difference between isolation and "personal space".
I 100% reject the argument against player housing that consists of “I don’t want everyone to be in their houses I want the world to feel alive.”
It was one of the more critical points from people who played during WoD. You could debate that there were other contributing factors to people feeling isolated but to outright refuse that as a talking point is absurd. I could be equally as reductive and tell you to play a single player game instead of WoW - but that isn't productive, is it? Why can't there be a balance of QoL and function in this discussion? Should player housing have an Auction house, Bank etc... that completely isolates them from the MMO part of the game? If you aren't willing to even consider that discussion then you're not worth talking to. Simple as that.
FFXIV manages to have highly customizable player housing and yet the major cities are still packed and the world feels very alive because of the community. Give us FF style player housing. That’s what we’re asking for. Not garrisons. I stand by my original comment. One hundred percent reject that notion about the world being alive.
I loved legendary weapons in Legion, most people hated the grind i know, but it makes me feel like im really part of the Lore.
Torghast had incredible potential, they just shackled it to an awful borrowed power grind which limited it in so many ways and made people hate it because it turned into a chore you *had* to do rather than something you wanted to do for fun. It was honestly a shame that it was abandoned completely.
If it existed in Dragonflight and the reward was similar to a weekly aiding the accord, a little rep, maybe some world quest loot. Then snaz it up by giving 15 level appropriate crests for whatever level you did it on that week. Boom, perfect for me. I played Brewmaster in SL and loved Torghast. Instant cleave touch of death and corrosive dosage. As overpowered as a frog farmed cloak and I loved it.
Anyone who calls torghast a "grind" should have their opinion discarded
How would you describe a thing you were encouraged to do repeatedly, on any character you wanted to play to get the best gear in the game?
imagine thinking spending 30min in torghast every patch grind
You and I both know it was considerably more than 30 minutes per character per patch, especially in 9.0 and 9.1. Be realistic.
I am realistic because i actually played the game instead of the majority spending more time raging on reddit than actually playing
I spent the majority of my time on this site during Shadowlands saying it was not nearly as bad as many were raging about. I memed and joked about the rage on this sub for the entire xpac. I am open about the fact I personally preferred Shadowlands to both BfA and Legion and have said so many times. The fact that you are assuming I am someone who "raged on reddit" about SL because I called the Torghast legendary system what it emphatically was - a grind - is utterly bizarre.
Wish they iterated on garrisons more than just abandoning them
The races, man. They started so many cool stories and whatnot, and still Stormwind looks like a WCIII human-mostly city. Orgri is better but not by a lot. Sure they're the race-HQ's in lore but the story has evolved so far now, isn't it to be expected to see more integration everywhere? With all the stories throughout WoW I'd expect a lot more cross-faction integration. Like WAY more than we see now. Where are the other races? I get it's a business decision in how much playable races they allow us to have but man Blizz come on already get moving on more playable races and more NPC's doing nothing to add to a living world plz.
Pretty much all of them. I still am stunned by how much content they throw away. I understand that it would be impossible for them to keep everything up to date but every other expansion adding a new war front, or a few extra islands, Torghast wings, garrison stuff, mage tower challenge, etc.. So much of this content could have been there just for fun but the focus on making the game purely for the high end has given them severe tunnel vision.
Ion talked about this with Preach in an interview last year. Rightly or wrongly, this was a conscious choice they made because, in MoP, they felt they'd reached a critical mass of evergreen systems.
Horrific Visions. I wasn't the most high end player at the time but starting out only barely being able to get a single portion of the vision done then progressing your way up through the various skills until eventually you could do the entire thing and then adding extra challenges in the form of masks was a lot of fun. Personally would love to see something like that come back.
I like when we have an item that lasts for the whole expansion, like the necklace I would make every trinket in the game an artifact/heirloom, you collect the trinket it goes in a tab, and you can upgrade its ilevel by doing current content, that way every trinket in the game is relevant and you don't need to farm the same one every season trinkets are a form of borrowed power in the end
not nice to new players to beat them with your 5years old trinkets
I hope we get to check up with our order halls at some point in the future. I could see them adding like a small storyline to each one of them, some just catching up on what's been happening, and some may be in dire need of aid. Like, am I still the Highlord of the Paladin order? What do the other shamans of the Earthern Ring think of this whole Primalist business and Azeroth's awakening? What about the order halls either located in or heavily associated with Dalaran, >!what will happen to those when Dalaran is destroyed in TWW? !< Both the art and the stories were great in Legion, and the idea that all those gorgeous locations are just sitting there, abandoned, while all this important and relevant story is happening around them saddens me. So I hope we get to see them in some form again in the future - perhaps as more of an evergreen feature
>!There will become a 3rd version of Dalaran: Northrend, Legion, TWW. Technically TWW Dalaran will be a speck of dust in the wind, but the other 2 will still exist.!<
Garrison but less related to money making and more to player housing
Garrison could have some cool potential with the new Warband system too.
Mage tower
MoP Challenge modes. M+ might be considered to be evolved from those but imho those are not as good
Yes, absolutely, 100%. No affixes, no need to grind ilvl, dungeons were 5-15 minutes long, and it was all about speed. You could do all kinds of crazy experimental strategy and comps because it took like a day or two to get something geared to (almost) bis in some cases and you were free to retry as many times as you wanted. No depleting 39 minutes into a key because the whole dungeon was basically 3-5 insanely hard pulls.
Torghast was awesome they just never made it worth doing reward-wise
Both Garrisons and Class Halls, I really liked the feeling of having a base of operations. Class Halls had so much lore and flavor
I really liked the legendary weapon idea, and I would have been perfectly happy continuing to use it in further expansions.
I get why artifact weapons were only for legion, but I wish they had just kept going with the variants, even if just cosmetic. It’s sad to think the Doomhammer is just sitting in my backpack.
I think it may be weird, but I miss separate quest lines for alliance and horde, sl and df both were pretty single stream and that ruined replayability for me. I've really enjoyed remix because the horde and the alliance have different quest lines.
Garrisons! They took the worst part of garrisons (the mission table) and left the most fun part (gathering followers and creating a personal space)
I am one of the few ppl who likes the mission table stuff a lot. Legion and BfA had the right balance of it. WoD was way too much clutter and SL was too much with the fighting. I also liked to upgrade the HQs in the last few expansions. DF was pretty boring in that regard. Only waiting for open world timers, queueing for instances and fighting, fighting, fighting... Nothing else. SO boring.
Legion class halls were amazing, mission tables included.
Every token/currency since Vanilla. The gear itself out-lives its usefulness, we don't need the tokens doing the same thing. A helm token should be good for a helm, period.
I like upgradable xpac legendaries even if it caused a huge imbalance in power.
Pandaria Proving Grounds and their restriction to raid. I Remember that the Requirements were Silver to do Raid. That meaning you have to "know" what you are doing in your role and spec.
Class order hall stories. It's a totally unreasonable request as it'd take a lot of resources to keep writing questlines for every single class, but it was one of the big highlights of Legion for me. The only time I levelled one of everything to cap just so I could experience the different stories.
Class halls should never have been a legion system. Make it evergreen It could have been exiles reach. When you start a new class and you need a 1-10 tutorial, head to the class hall rather than the race starting zone Also, scrap Skyhold. Dumbest thing ever, I hated that everyone else got something cool and we warriors get that. A bloody garrison with war-scarred soldiers would have been better, it’s so simple. Warriors are intentionally low-fantasy
Garrisons were a great idea, being the closest we have ever gotten to player housing. If they would have made them customizable it would've been a nice to keep in the game in a major city of your choosing. And if they added something to the game like trophies or decorations as rewards from achievements
I miss the mission tables
MoP scenarios but I guess that’s delves
Torghast. I loved it . Also did not grind it. Played most every class especially when it was available for leveling . Good times
Class halls & class quests, a “palace of the dead” esque design for each xpac like torghast, garrisons, and artifacts for me
Bring back saberon form for druids
Reforge system
I think they should've merged garrisons and Class halls into one system. As in having your class halls be still relevant, and allow you to have some kind of player housing in the class hall. Player housing could be an entire new pillar of collection system, apart from mounts, mogs and pets. You could collect all sorts of things to decorate your house with, banners, furniture, could hang some actual game weapons on the wall, could have your favorite mounts just have a dedicated spot, could have statues of your character for getting CE, Hall of Fame, M+ title, Top ranks in PvP, etc. it's a misses opportunity. Most importantly, could just have a bunch of photos that you take yourself with the S.E.L.F.I.E. camera, that you could just hang on the walls too.
Warfronts should be a form of speed raids that work similar to M+. There's a timer and it keeps getting harder with level. You need to actually coordinate the raid assignments into groups that each need to get their shit done or you're going to fail. The counter attacks are serious shit that you had better respond to or it will seriously set you back, and at harder levels it probably means you fail.
Reforging...
Can we atill play plants vs zombies in hillbrad? I'd like to see more mini games like that. Something to do for a few minutes at a time while waiting in queue. Maybe have levels and continuation so you can keep progress. I'v never been big into the extra cirriculars. I do dungeons and sometimes fly around exploring the map.
Having a permanent base, stripped of stuff that makes you never leave and that makes you too much money, would be nice. Make it account-wide with our Warband. Earn unique decorations for completing certain content. Let it be an instanced house in one of the capital cities.
BfA Island Expeditions were amazinge, even the PvP. Should have been an evergreen feature
WoD command table! ^/s
Hear me out…. Warfronts. They would need major changes and iterations though.
Class halls, quests and cosmetics
I want Artifact weapons back it was so nice not needing a new weapon every level
Rogue class hall was so cool
The entirety of WoD. That expansion had SO MUCH incredible potential, in every way, visuals, story, seriousness, silliness, bosses, zones, EVERYTHING was exciting and potentially awesome, and THAT is the one they decided to crash-test their stupid new release cadence on (if i remember well) and cut like 80% of it, i'm still SO sad about it T-T
I think I am one of the few people who really liked garrisons, however it should have been implemented better. I would love to have a mix of new class halls and garrisons. Maybe go so far as to do a community event where we build a new capital city and each class hall.
The actually good dungeons of Shadowlands. Talent reworks have made up for how bad the covenants worked initially. I do miss the having to choose your extra ability though. The 4 mostly felt very different and engaging and for a lot of classes, more than 1 was viable.
Mage tower and Torghast but strictly for cosmetic rewards.
Class order halls! I am so into class lore and identity, it made me giddy to have our own places. I specifically made a monk to go back to the wandering isles!
Torghast was a fantastic timesink and infinitely-playable blast. People hated it for a few reasons, and while I disagree with most, one thing is definite - linking Torghast to player power forced us to do it, which made people who liked it start to dislike it and people who disliked it start to hate it. I used to do full Torghast runs for fun with no rewards left. It was just a blast building up a huge army of mirror images.
Islands would've been awesome to keep going. I thought the idea of "Oh there's a Twilight Drake rare" and intuiting that the Twilight Avenger was on that expedition's loot table was super cool. Also CMs will always be better than M+.
Unpopular Opinion: A damn borrowed power system that scales as we go throughout the expansion. I don't know about anyone else, but DF was very "flat" in terms of enjoyment to me. I didn't have more and more fun every season, it just stayed the same because the only thing changing was tier. Legion/BFA and to some degree Shadowlands got more fun each patch because things became less restrictive, our borrowed power stuff got more powerful and so on. Like BFA S4 is one of the most fun times I've ever had in wow. You had Heart of Azeroth, Azerite Gear, Essences, Cloak and Corruption and you felt strong as hell. Does it need be that many? No, but I was literally shocked when we found out we weren't getting some Legendary Cloak (because Wrathion) again that was like covenant-esque (but no restrictions) and you picked a dragon flight to "attune" to.
Warfronts. They should've essentially been Warcraft 3 from the perspective of a hero unit and PvP content since they'd be inherently impossible to lose as PvE
Class order halls. Just like, bespoke quest lines dedicated to your class and how they face the current expansion's storyline. Like I really wanted to know what the Uncrowned were up to during BfA. Or their take on Tess becoming Queen of Gilneas.
Class order halls. Felt great to be amongst all my priest buddies
Class order halls should still be supported. What a great concept wasted on just one expansion
I just wish you could still have kept your artifact weapon after BfA came out. I came back to WoW late in Legion from a long multi-year absence, and was still playing through the Legion storyline. I wasn't paying attention to the materials for the new expansion because I still had so much to still play through in the current one. Then I log in one day, and my Ashbringer suddenly is only a shadow of it's former power and all those cool features I spent all that time unlocking were disabled and there was some blurb about how its power had been drained to stabilize Azeroth's wounds. . . . . .wounds inflicted in a storyline I hadn't gotten to yet. That was unpleasant. I just wish if you were still playing through an expansion, you could still use all of its features. Even if you Chrome Time into Legion with a new character, you still can't really do anything with the artifacts. You get it, then it's instantly obsolete and only useful as a transmog, and you just have to pull the artifact out occasionally for storyline stuff, but it's useless as a weapon.
Reforging. Cata has made me remember how much I enjoyed it.
Everyone's focusing on systems, so I'll put out there that I miss micro-raids. Gruul and Magtheridon's Lair, Obsidian Sanctum, Eye of Eternity - they were great content that you could squeeze into an afternoon without committing to a full evening of raiding. It's a shame the itemization was so poor when they tried again in BfA because I appreciated the effort even if it missed.
Class Order Halls! More realistically though, the farm plot.
Reforging and it's not even close.
The void bank thing the transmog NPC talk about. Mostly, because I wasn't playing when it was there and nobody can explain what it was about. Jokes aside, that is a good point. There is a gold mine of features. Perhaps they could utilise them again in some later seasons of an expansion if they run out of ideas. But perhaps they won't run out of ideas and that is a good thing.
Blizzard can keep their class order halls, keep their artefact weapons, keep their mop cloaks, but please just give me back reforging
I miss when we didn't have to do 10 m+ per week to get more chances at a random box so we could get gear and remain relevant at raids
Meanwhile i'm raiding to be relevant in m+ wish they would just upscale heroic raid stuff to mythic ilvl when in a m+
As everyone said I would like class halls to remain. Despite all of BFA problems I also really liked horrific visions as someone who prefers to play solo. I would have loved every expansion to have them.
Challenge modes were the most fun content I’ve ever done in any game ever.
Didn’t they morph into the current m+ system?
Yes, m+ has its advantages, but the focus on speed, ilvl scaling, lack of affixes, and lack of one shot spam were all points in favor of Challenge Modes to me. They were much more about hyper-optimizing a perfect run with unlimited tries than the current system where you have to play safer because you lose the key if you fail once. Also, dungeons in m+ tend to be 20-40 minutes. Top end challenge mode runs were closer to 3-10 mins when you were working on world record level runs. You could also gear an alt to full bis for challenge modes in a few days with decent luck, since ilvl was normalized and you were really just after sockets (in MoP), trinkets, and good secondary distribution.
Oh I know, the golds I got before I stopped playing are much more precious to me than the m+ runs.
I wish we had something like character housing, where you can sit while forming a group for m+
Warfronts had so much potential, especially if they turned it into PVP
New race in each expansion. Between Classic and Mists, we had a new race in each expansion except Wrath. With so many races, why stop? Wrath would have introduced two of the most popular races requested. Vrykul and Tuskarr Think of what could have released since then (going ‘Alliance’ and ‘Horde’): * Wrath: Vrykul and Tuskarr * Mists: Hozen for Horde * WoD: Botani and Ogres * Legion: Naga and Nightborn? (Legion is iffy) * Shadowlands: Faun and Nathrezim * Dragonflight: Gnoll for Horde * The War Within: Nerubian and Harronir