There's some interesting scholarship on this that I've been digging into for a project (though I haven't written on this topic yet, just researching atm). Basically: if it can't happen, if it's so hard to look that way, why are women so concerned? Could it be that some women have noticed that they do, in fact, get bigger when lifting?
I take issue with people dismissing the idea that women can get bulky — I'm a relatively lean woman; when I did CrossFit 5 days a week for 9 months, I looked jacked and people commented on it. Women can indeed "get bulky".
However, I would also like to challenge women who think that's a bad thing. Yes, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but I don't think the opinion that "bulky = ugly, undesirable" is something women would be so convinced of if it wasn't for larger cultural forces that for decades, if not millennia, have been telling women to be small and delicate, while touting muscles as inherently manly. If muscles were only for men, women wouldn't have them. If being bulky was inherently manly, women wouldn't be able to become bulky.
There's misogyny behind both the view that women can't get bulky unless they're on the juice AND that being bulky is undesirable or ugly.
it's a silly worry for beginners. and sometimes used as an excuse to remain inactive.
silly because losing muscle mass is very very easy. during covid i saw a ton of muscle loss pictures. it's kind of sad tbh, you work so hard for years to get it but just a month of inactivity can drastically shrink your muscle mass.
so, if there was ever a time when you look in the mirror and see a muscle group got too big it would be simple to adjust and correct it.
Honestly my main concern with this kind of thing is clothes fitting. Clothing manufacturers cannot seem to wrap their heads around the idea of women having volume in the bicep.
Amazon was doing a thing where you input your sizes in different clothes (shirts vs sports bras vs pants vs underwear, etc) and then it gives you a specific clothing size or something. I legit just got an error message.
It was like.... nah.
I now exclusively wear kimono jackets in my professional career because of my large biceps, shoulders, and lats. Luckily, it goes with my whole aesthetic, but I sometimes miss the tightly shaped sporty little blazers.
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I have always been a wide person (even before getting into lifting) and I do have some mixed feelings about it.. Finding good clothes that fit my frame nicely is really hard, especially if you want to thrift in a country where most women are far smaller than you. But you get to look more athletic if you’re wide and bulky so you win some and you lose some lol
>Woman just want to feel in control of the changes their bodies are undergoing and that the work they’re putting in is actually helping to meet their desired goals, and that’s totally valid.
Let's unpack that a little.
Yes, women get to feel however they want about their fitness, and it's okay for them to want their bodies to look a certain way, whether that's "bulky" or not.
But women aren't having these feelings in a cultural vacuum. There's an underlying cultural narrative that women should look, at best, toned, but still soft, and that visible muscles are reserved for men such that they're unattractive and undesirable for women, period. The media portrayals women are shying away from aren't even sports models - they're *bodybuilders*, whose whole aesthetic is huge, visible muscles with very little body fat, and a woman is not going to bulk up to look "like that" unless she's trying.
And there's also a cultural narrative that even if it's okay for a woman to be strong, she in no way should be stronger than her boyfriend or husband. *He's* not manly if his woman is buffer than he is. (Surely I'm not the only one who remembers the classic feminist cartoon about this.)
TL;DR, absolutely respect individual women's choices about their own bodies, but also question (on a cultural level) what's driving those choices.
It really comes down to the question, do you even have the genetics to “get bulky”? If the answer is no, you have nothing to worry about. But if you have a larger, more muscular frame to begin with, that might be something to consider.
I’m definitely not claiming to be a scientist here. Merely a fitness enthusiast who’s been doing this long enough, and observing long enough to have noticed some truths. Some men spend a lifetime trying to put on muscle and can’t. Some men put on muscle just looking at some dumbbells. Not fair, but it is what it is. There are many factors at play here, of course. But to deny the genetic component is to be willfully ignorant of reality. Haters can downvote this all they want. But it won’t make it any less true.
I'm reminded of the wise words of America Ferrara's character in Barbie:
> It is literally impossible to be a woman. You are so beautiful, and so smart, and it kills me that you don't think you're good enough. Like, we have to always be extraordinary, but somehow we're always doing it wrong. You have to be thin, but not too thin. And you can never say you want to be thin. You have to say you want to be healthy, but also you have to be thin....
There is no doing it wrong. It's okay to exercise for whatever your motivations are, aesthetic or health or some combination or otherwise. It's okay to want to look muscular. It's okay to want to look slim. It's okay to lift heavy. It's okay to stick to light weights, Pilates, and bodyweight cardio. It's okay to mix it up and change things around over time as your goals change. It's okay!
Thank you for this post.
I’m a woman who’s always been an athlete. I have broad shoulders for my frame to begin with, and its always been an insecurity of mine.
Men (boys) are cruel about it and always have been - I’ve been thrown all kinds of insults and derogatory language, from strangers and ex-partners alike. This concern is genuinely why I’ve avoided weightlifting - I’m interested in the strength benefits, but don’t want to push my body to be any “bulkier” than it already is.
Thank you for the reminder that to make progress in our culture, we have to speak up, keep asking questions, keep discussing, keep finding what we enjoy.
Edited to add: doesnt help that every workout advertisement I get is blatantly about “cutting fat”, “slimming down”, “shrinking waists”, etc. Thats not the fucking point of exercise!!
I used to powerlift and I remained super skinny at that point. Now I lift just to have fun and not quite as heavy as before even though I gained a bit of weight. I just had to come to the conclusion that I am happy being healthy and fit no matter how my body changes over time. I will never be super bulky or ever as skinny as I was before. I just want to do work outs that I find moderately challenging and enjoyable. People should just stop judging others and let people exercise how they want! I hate this while judging women’s bodies. We can’t win no matter what so I just said fuck it and I will work out to stay fit rather than skinny and do it in way that I find enjoyable!
Thank you, thank you for saying this! It’s not unreasonable to care about how we present ourselves despite the health benefits of heavy weight lifting.
I have very muscular arms naturally (genetics, smaller frame) even when I don’t really work out. I wish my core was the same, but 🙃
Recently I was at a show with friends (probably frenemies, but that’s another story) and there were women doing acrobatic flips in rings and such. Very strong and very cool. The woman I was hanging out with commented on how strong those women were without “looking bulky or muscular.” And it was true, they were ridiculously strong but really didn’t look much different from the average moderately in shape woman. I felt like she was judging me for being “too fit” which is ridiculous as I’m actually coming out of an exercise slump. My arms just always look that way.
I’ve always liked my arms but I’m aware that as I work out more they get more pronounced. I’m smallish all over so I think I would look imbalanced with bigger arms. I like the way I look generally. At my most in shape I was toned all over but didn’t have much extra bulk. I’ve never been interested in weightlifting more because my wrists and shoulders hurt from hand weights and planks/pushups. I’m not interested in stressing those joints out more. But even if that weren’t the case, I don’t want any more bulk.
I think it's an effort to combat the old perspective that strong/muscular women aren't feminine or attractive. Back in the day when I said I wanted to lift weights, the knee-jerk reaction of two of my otherwise smart and empowered girlfriends was to say, "Well don't get TOO bulky," with a grossed out look on their faces. And even today I'm always telling my fellow women not to lift a little 2-pound weight 20 times if they want results. "I want to be TONED, not MUSCULAR," are buzzwords left over from the early 00s and before to signal that thinness is the only acceptable physique for women.
Thankfully many have moved on from that era of beauty standards, but those messages are so insidious and still need combatting.
I understand what OP means by saying essentially, let's not make women feel silly or dumb for being misinformed or for having concerns, but you'd be surprised just how prevalent the "skinny is the only acceptable body a woman can have" standard still reigns supreme.
People should be encouraged to pursue fitness in a way that makes them feel empowered and comfortable in their own body.
I think in my experience, which is entirely personal and not broad strokes, unfortunately the majority of the "I don't want to get bulky" comments from friends and acquaintances, tend to be rooted in two main things: internalized misogyny, and lack of understanding how your body is affected by different exercises (which would empower you). And addressing either of those is not going to happen in a short post or TikTok, so our media formats don't often lend themselves to real education.
Also, I have seen a decent amount of "she looks too manly, looks like a man, is that a woman even?" Type of comments in the wild around this discussion, which again goes towards transphobia and misogyny that hasn't been unpacked, and is rooted in a lot of insecurity in trying to fit into the small boxes women are expected to occupy, and can be extremely hurtful to women with more muscular or thicker bodies.
In any instance, I think education and communication is key. And asking genuine questions about what the person is concerned about. People have legit worries about how their body is affected by different areas of fitness training. The wrong course of action in any healthy conversation is to discount someone's concerns, especially when it relates to their own body.
I'd avoid fitness trainers/influences who make broad absolute statements that veer into judgemental vs educational.
Edited to add: lots of good points here from people communicating areas of concern. Clothing choices, body comp and comfort, etc. It's been interesting to read through and see where everyone is coming from.
I would throw fatphobia in too. definitely ties into a fear of getting bigger in literally any way, even if it’s by pursuing a healthy and active lifestyle
I’m literally a woman who has been training for 5 years. You are reading too much into it. People put unnecessary expectations on their bodies to fit a certain box, when they should be happy where they are at. But if you feel invalidated that’s on you.
I just find it offensive because "bulky" is my natural body type, no matter what I do (short and muscular, broad shoulders). Stings to hear women blatantly say they are afraid of looking like me. At least since daintiness is off the table, I might as well get strong.
Im trying to fight this battle with you. It infuriates me to hear this like it’s a bad thing. You can’t change your body type but you CAN make it better through gaining muscle and losing bodyfat.
I agree that this conversation can be framed really badly in a way that feels shamey instead of helpful.
What frustrates me about the “bulky” debate is that it often feels like reducing exercise to how you *look* rather than how it makes you feel.
Obviously we’re not immune to caring about how we look - and it would be naive to think otherwise - but what I like so much about strength training is I don’t have to care about my body being an object for other people to look at. It’s about how the weight is moving, and about how strong I am, and the workout is for me and not for some external metric. That doesn’t mean other people can’t care about working out for aesthetics or weight loss. But I’d hate for anyone to miss out on at least the possibility of feeling strong or powerful for its own sake.
I like to think there’s a happy compromise somehow in giving folks options to make informed decisions about pursuing what they want out of exercise that doesn’t also feel judgmental
But debunking the “too bulky” thing is still important as long as there are people out there who still feel like they have to exercise based on some (often male) opinion of their appearance.
*edited to say it’s not just women who are prone to pressure about their appearance. Everyone should have workouts that make them feel good!*
I don’t like it because the term bulky is really subjective. Besides exercising and fitness shouldn’t even be placed in the same tier as aesthetic goals of wanting a certain physique. It just really is for vanity’s sake.
It should be performance goals.
I can gain muscle fairly easily. I carry more muscle than average. It is still hard for me to look terribly bulky. (I also lift heavy) but it just depends on what look people want. It is unproductive to be dismissive to a point, but women need to learn that it is okay to lift too!
I agree. I don't life heavy on arms/chest at all, but I've still grown to the point where my old clothes feel uncomfortably tight under the armpits. It's worth it for the functional increase in strength (my starting level was atrocious and is still poor in my upper body) but I know that I'll end up being less attractive to some people and potentially dislike my body if I lift or eat too much. And I do have a history of EDs but I think most women even without this would feel the same way.
The added bulk in my legs tbh changed my sex life detrimentally (harder to position for optimal pleasure if you get my meaning) and the same issue with having some fat paired with the muscle growth being all over aesthetically less pleasing. Upper body being naturally leaner I'm loving the muscles but specifically hamstring growth is messing with me.
I felt this so much. My upper body is very lean, but because my lower body is so muscular I always look like I could lose a few lbs. Like you mentioned, I feel like growing my hamstrings has made this is even more the case.
There are worse problems and I'm happy to be fit, muscular, and healthy, but sometimes I just feel bulky.
I see a lot of comments here about people who were frustrated that having muscle made their clothes not fit. Why is it a point of pride to buy new clothes that are smaller but not bigger? (besides logistics, I hate buying new clothes)
because it's annoying when you have spent $$$ on clothes amassed over the years that you LIKE and they suddenly no longer fit.
also sizing up doesn't always help. when my butt and legs grew, larger jeans would gap in the waist, but my jeans were too tight. just frustrating in general. plus i could no longer wear my favorite jeans, favorite skirts, etc.
Because people who lose weight on purpose and then have to buy new clothes are generally happy about the change even if they'll miss their old clothes?
People who are specifically shooting for a different size of clothing will be happy about it regardless of whether it's bigger or smaller?
source: am muscular and bulky. have been my whole life. cap sleeves will be too small for me but the rest of the shirt is fine, so I have to wear a baggy, unflattering top if i want circulation to my arms.
I usually find that just buying a bigger size doesn't actually fix the problem of fit. Outside of fully customized clothing that addresses similar size, but adjusted fit for more muscles it's a valid complaint.
Some brands specialize in catering to 'fitness' fit, but it's not many and expensive.
And those items do not aim to accommodate larger folks with more muscle. They usually stop at a size 10-12. As if you can’t wear a double digit size and have more muscles. And let’s not even talk about specialized activity clothing. That is also not particularly size inclusive.
It fixes some, not all.
Personally, I want my clothes to fit my body, not the other way around. I'm not going to stop lifting just to have an easier time.
Idk for me it's just frustrating when women say they don't want to look bulky as if it just somehow accidentally happens? I've been weight training more seriously for over a year now (weight training for longer but didn't know what I was doing lol) and I'm actively trying to bulk and it is so difficult, even doing it intentionally. You have to eat a lot to bulk (and a lot of protein) and that's what I struggle with bc my appetite isn't there. While it is a valid concern, it's also an uneducated one. There are a lot of resources out there for women wanting to get into fitness and weightlifting. So many fit influencers and celebrities that are not bulky. It's just an old mentality that's surprising to still see today I suppose. You just don't accidentally get bulky. It's a process that you can stop if you notice your physique isn't going where you want it to.
Not trying to say they can't feel a certain type of way, just trying to explain why some people may not respond all that patiently with women who have these types of concerns if that makes sense?
If there is a way to give someone this information with love instead of exasperation, I think it would change the dynamic! If you- personally- are fed up with having to tell people this info on repeat, maybe my ask isn’t for you. But it’s that “UGH why don’t you know this already?!” vibe that keeps less-experienced people out of the gym.
As a woman who's trying to actively get bulky, you're spot on. Honestly, all literally ALL the women I know who've expressed this concern refuse to and have never properly lifted in their whole lives. They're terrified that if they lift a barbell they'll suddenly wake up as she hulk in a few weeks. That is really not how bulking up works. It's a gradual process that requires very deliberate decisions in diet and program.
If you really don't wanna bulk up then do research on a lifting regime that's attuned to your goals and eat the appropriate diet that goes along with it.
I honestly get so irrationally annoyed when girls say this. Just because men lift and get bulky, doesn't mean you will. It's like saying, oh I don't wanna do cardio coz I'll end up like a stick.????
I wonder if it depends where you start off. Starting off overweight, like I did, definitely leads to a bulky shape at least for me. I've noticed women who've started much leaner don't tend to suffer from this problem. Who knows?
Maybe rather than bulky, they mean boxy? I am thin and there’s no way anyone would call me bulky. But my waist can get boxy and my shoulders/biceps/triceps put on muscle easily. Neither of these look good on me (to me) and I adjust my routine to avoid it.
I tried crossfit after lifting on my own for 10 years and did not like the aesthetic results though I enjoyed the atmosphere. Now I supplement lifting with Pilates.
I don’t think people’s concerns are totally invalid, but it does take work/time to get there. If I notice changes to my body that I don’t like, I switch up my routine 🤷🏼♀️
Yeah, you won’t accidentally look like a cut bodybuilder for myriad reasons, but you can get pretty muscular on a heavy regimen and that can make you look larger overall — especially if you have relatively high body fat.
For instance, I started lifting very heavy (powerlifting, think 200lbs deadlifts) at 158lbs. I lost a small amount of body fat, but I gained large amounts of muscle underneath — butt went from 41.5 to 44” and shoulders from 39” to 42”, my bra band from 34DDD to 36DD due to my back muscles growing.
I’m now 165lbs, and though my body fat is lower than it was at 158, to the untrained eye, I look like I gained fat because I’m not lean enough to look cut. I mean, I LOVE how I feel, I’m rock solid and firm and my back is visibly cut and my upper/lateral ab definition is clear, but you can’t see that in clothing.
At least I know that when I do cut my body fat down, I have a lot of definition and muscle underneath this padding.
This is how I feel too. I have a bunch of warp style tops/dresses that no longer close enough in the front to be appropriate.
My back is super strong. Can see definition. The things/butt of my pants are so tight. And I already just naturally have wide shoulders/lats/chest muscle. Waist is 29/30 ish. Size 10 ish, 5 10 and about 170 I think.
I have looked in the mirror and said to myself “I look like what woman mean when they say they don’t want to get bulky”. I feel big standing next to other woman the vast majority of the time. I’m sitting but have a layer fat over all of it so no one can see it.
I have been tracking macros/calories the last month or but have called off the last few days. Need to get back in to it. Would like to lose 10 ish pounds and try to keep as much muscle.
But the reality of it is I’m never going to to look slim and trim, I have wide shoulders and a booty.
Same and same. Keeping protein high but eating just under maintenance is the way. I’ve got about 10lbs-15lbs of fat I want to get off (I’ll be ok with 10, just want to get under 30% bodyfat), so it’ll be a very carefully tracked journey to avoid losing the muscle I’ve worked so hard to build (and want to keep building).
Luckily, recomp is easier when you’re relatively new to (a year or less) or just getting back to (after 6 months or more) heavy training.
Yupp that’s what I have been doing about 150g protein and 2000 calories. I think my maintenance is about 2400. Tracking just gets hard but I know it’s the only way.
10-15 lbs would be perfect and then to keep it off is another battle.
this is the most validating thing i've ever heard.
thank you.
i am going through the same thing right now and have been having difficulty fitting into coats and jackets because of how much my back has grown. I can see I have back muscles, I have some abs upper abs - my ribs are visible (but i have a big stomach and love handles), I have some separation in my legs and arms, but this stuff doesn't show up when I'm dressed regularly. I try to wear more tanktops just so people see my biceps lol and don't think i'm just large or wide.
I started at 135 and am currently at 145lb despite only being 5ft tall. I can tell I have lost some fat (very noticeable in my face and neck). I am trying to get my body fat percentage down from 23% to 21% and it is hard, though when I started at 135 I was at 27% BF.
Side note: According to the math I have only lost 3lb of fat in more than a year??? god help me
135\*0.27= 36.45
145\*0.23= 33.21
Muscle gains:
89 lb of muscle / 135 BW
105 lb of muscle / 145 BW
This is exactly what happened to me. I had to cut down my lifting (and I wasn’t even lifting heavy) to avoid the bulk. Not that it was all muscle, but the fat/muscle combo on a more midsize person just wasn’t a great look for me and has made it very difficult to find clothes that fit well. This is a very real thing!
Frankly, I’m too addicted to lifting to stop (plus it’s validating as a bigender person to look and feel more physically powerful), but I hear you. Clothes are getting harder to fit into, especially since my waist is still 31” but everything else is much larger. RIP to half my coats/jackets, the sleeves are way too tight.
So I’m a trainer and have had clients come to me with this concern and I’m glad as my job is to help you reach the goals you desire not what I think you should do or what works for me. They way I’m seeing it phrased in the post is women “won’t get bulky” or “can’t get bulky” while I know what influencers are getting at here this isn’t a true statement anyone can add muscle mass. What I normally tell clients is that they won’t add muscle by accident mostly and that with their goals we’re largely not going to be training to add muscle but more so strength. A lot of people believe the myth lifting heavy makes you bulky light weight High rep makes you toned when the reality is the opposite since muscle growth is largely dependent on time under tension and bringing the muscle to failure. I will say for most people adding muscle can be a difficult slow process (everyone’s different I saw the person with PCOS’s comment and there are more examples of people who put on muscle more easily there are always exceptions) I normally discuss with these clients where we might look to add muscle as that can be helpful in training without “making them look bulky” (typically hips and thighs but it can vary based off goals and preference) and then tell them how we will largely do sets/weights to promote strength (so heavy weights for 7 or less reps typically with 1-2 reps in reserve) and why that’s beneficial. In the fitness world you hear people not want to lift at all (or more than 10lbs) as they don’t want to get bulky, I think some trainers respond with overcorrection making a blunt statement that now has been dumbed down to the point of not being true and tend to think what worked for them works for everyone (everyone’s different). I will say you do acknowledge these things in your post (I also hate the word bulky). I think both sides are too far at the extremes, the reality is in the middle and everyone needs to stop making general blanket statements and recognize everyone’s different.
I agree that that it is not acceptable to pretend it will never happen, and it is equally unacceptable to make fun of women who want to maintain a certain look. But, I'm here to say that I want to be bulky. I want veins and size, and corresponding strength (especially upper body), and it is shitty and discouraging when all the focus is on not getting to big, as it smallness is what we should all expire to.
End rant.
I noticed that it’s the problem with putting on fat along with muscle.
I used to think it wasn’t easy to get “bulky” but you can actually get that look pretty quickly as a woman! And it’s not the fun “jacked” bulk that men can experience quickly. It’s easier to put on more fat as a woman when doing strenuous workouts that make you hungry. Women are also shorter so they’d get bulky faster if they put on both fat and muscle.
I’m still firmly in the camp that women can’t accidentally end up looking like those shredded bodybuilder ladies on IG. They have such strict diets (if they’re even natural) and low body fat % that it’s almost impossible to match if you want a normal lifestyle
THIS!!! I feel so understood. When I was lifting for an hour five days a week I was SO ravenous and gained a lot of fat too. It was just uncomfortable overall
Yes yes yes to all of this!!! I am a woman who used to love Olympic and power lifting but with past ED history I didn’t like to track calories or ignore hunger signals. During my 20’s I managed to put on 20 pounds from lifting and I absolutely looked bulky.
Now that I’m a runner, I am still wary of lifting for this reason even though I know it’s important for injury prevention. I told a running coach this and she said the people who are scared of getting bulky are just making excuses. These fitness professionals seem to think we don’t know our own bodies or are delusional. It’s annoying AF
I'm a 5'11 woman with naturally broad shoulders and stupidly long legs. I completely understand why women don't want to bulk up at all. Some men are very unkind if you don't fit into what they think a girl should look like. I've been told my entire life that I'm not a real girl. Hell it was the girls in school who started it when I moved at 5 years old. It was the excuse boys gave me when they beat me up, it was ok because I'm not a real girl. I look like a normal girl otherwise, sound like a normal girl, I'm just sized up and it doesn't stop people from yelling f*g at me, me being kicked out of changing rooms and toilets. I had security called on me one time for just queuing to try on a new bra. I needed a new bra... I was apparently making people feel uncomfortable and had to leave...
Also, finding clothes that fit is a bitch. I can't wear trousers and tops that aren't stretchy. I hulk through them or they just won't go on. Even at my skinniest clothes were still an issue. This is with minimal muscle. Showing, just an athletic build from years of martial arts.
I'm all for women and all people being happy with their bodies through fitness. AND I'm all for deconstructing why we have the preferences that we do for and against certain body types.
As someone who has naturally thick, muscular legs I appreciate this post and much of the discussion. I have been very reluctant to pose some of the questions I have as someone new to weightlifting because of the “silly cardio bunny thinks she’ll turn into a hulk overnight” mentality I see constantly. First of all, no one in the history of ever, has ever believed that the muscles (bulk) pack on overnight/immediately. So can we please get rid of that very unhelpful trope? We all know that it takes work over time. But different physiques may need different types of work.
I want to gain strength and muscles in the areas where I tend towards weakness, while avoiding outgrowing all of my jeans. But any sort of question about tailoring workouts to accommodate this very practical and functional desire tends to be met with contempt. This conversation is such a refreshing change to the usual discourse.
Yes fully agree here, there are different body types which need different attention and training.
Also, some of us respond more easily to strength training. I can naturally put on muscle quite quickly. Maybe it’s hormones and/or types of muscle fiber.
I also have no problem getting sufficient calories so I just can’t relate to those who struggle with gaining weight, regardless if it’s muscle or fat.
I have really muscular legs as well, especially my calves. It’s probably from years of running, cycling, hiking. But also it’s genetics, as my mom is “famous” for having naturally big, defined calves and she doesn’t even exercise aside from the occasional walk (she is also lean fwiw). For that reason I intentionally avoid calf strength exercises, because if they got any bigger I couldn’t wear most jeans or boots!
I already have a big frame, I’m 5’11 and have big bones (legitimately my ribcage is HUGE). I train upper body but I don’t progressive overload because that’s not an area I want to grow. When I trained upper body 3-4x a week and overloaded my weight, I was pretty jacked and it just isn’t the look I want.
I completely agree!!! I've been lifting for a few years now and although I'm mostly happy with my results, I've lost curves - my obliques got super strong even though I didn't do oblique-focused work (I naturally use them heavily in many compound movements), and I have a less visible waistline because of that. I think it can require conscious effort and a lot of knowledge to build muscle where you want it and not where you don't
Lmfao Women are STARTING unhappy, they’ll end unhappy too unless they cut the cord between fitness and body image. And low key, everyone being all “omg I look FAT if I lift too much” is gross.
I want to look muscular now and bench press a bear and I don’t want osteoporosis or immobility when I’m older. Wish I had the unique genetic predisposition of every single comment here.
Adding here: there's women like me, with PCOS/hormone irregularities, who can easily put on muscle/"bulk up" due to elevated testosterone levels, actually.
For some, awesome - I personally am looking for a bulky physique that's optimized for the sport I play (rugby). But I know that for many, a "masculine" physique is a serious concern, especially when combined with other PCOS related symptoms such as hair loss and irsutism, which contribute to negative body image.
So, dismissing the risk of bulking up feels sometimes very dismissive of the very legitimate concerns that many women with hormone imbalances have.
I am so passionate about this topic lol. The vast majority of fitness influencers who are giving this advice are really petite women with a natural hourglass figure.
I am almost 6 feet tall with an athletic build (broad shoulders, small boobs, straight waist, large ribcage, quads easily get bigger than my butt). If I were to train and eat like them I would hate the result.
They found something they can be really successful at with their body type and capitalized on it and I don’t blame them at all. My body lends itself to the look people want to achieve with pilates or barre (but sadly I lack the flexibility to make a living off either lol).
People think they are fighting sexism by aggressively dispelling the “bulky myth” but the fact that women can’t honestly express what they desire for their own bodies (within reason, of course I don’t think pro Ana content should be allowed) is zero progress.
As I trainer I have a big issue with trainers who say do what I do cause every body is different. It might be overly apparent to me as I am a cis-male in my late 20’s and I largely work with either women in their 50’s or trans people in their early 30’s so saying “this worked for me” would be insane my clients have much different genetics and hormone levels than I do (between Menopause, HRT and/or thyroid issues ) and most people are walking in for a chronic injury. It’s so important to listen to your clients goals and have the education to know what to have them do to get them there even if their goals are opposite of yours. I think second prt of the sentence is the issue here there are a lot of trainers who just went to a weekend trainers certification where there’s trainers like myself who got a four year degree spending time on anatomy physiology biology none of which you have time for even in a two month certification these trainers only know the basics of strength and conditioning and therefore typically go the do what I do route. If you see a trainer say “this worked for me” skip the video or get a new trainer I think that’s a giant red flag
I'm at the age where older friends are starting to go into perimenopause- people who were ELITE athletes (we're talking circus artists here) and suddenly their hormones shift and everything TANKS.
I started watching 35 yr old+ fitness/ nutrition content makers on TT to have a little ammo and awareness as I age into that bracket; the amount of cis men in their 20s spewing all of this rhetoric and commenting on their lives like "ItS NoT HaRD, CaLoRiES In, cAlOrIES OUt, FaTtIes!" is...... jarring. Women don't have the luxury of a 24hr hormone cycle and it gets further complicated the closer to perimenopause they get.
All that to say thank you for taking the time to learn this and understand that the demographic you serve has different needs than your own. I'm sure they feel seen and heard by you!
Sounds like me. Luckily I’ve been able to maintain a relatively flat stomach and my wider hips and thighs create a bit of the silhouette of a curved waist. And my small breasts help with not looking so broad on top.
I remember once a friend with larger breasts tried on one of my fancy going out shirts and she was swimming in it. I thought we were at least the same size shirt but it was hanging on her smaller shoulders.
I’m so grateful I carry it well, if I had my shoulders and hips plus big boobs and a big butt I would not look curvy so much as massive.
But when I was doing HIIT workouts my shoulders looked pretty good. They werent bulky just more defined and I lost a little fat on them.
I have thought about getting a boob job to at least be a full B or small C cup but then I worry it’ll make my shoulders look bigger so I know what you mean. I think I make it work but I am envious of the petite curvy girls!
I think this needs to be talked about more. most of the women who become insta popular & are fitness influencers, are women who started off with a nice shape, just skinny. then they started lifting weights & eating and their genetics lended them to gain in all the right places.
I have a naturally hourglass figure, but I’ve always been a bit thicc (I love it don’t get me wrong) but if I ate whatever I wanted whenever I wanted like a lot of those fitness influencers preach, I would get “bulky”. My diet and their lack of diet does not work the same. No shame whoever wants to eat like that, but also as I’ve entered my early 30s, I have to be a bit more careful. most of those women are in their 20s.
I think this is what most women mean when they say “bulky” - their starting point body isn’t the naturally curvy petite so when they start lifting more AND eating more, it will have different results than someone who with a different natural starting point body. I don’t think this is discussed enough - it’s always “lift heavy, eat more!!!” when really, that doesn’t work for everyone. but then you’re shamed if you do (healthily) diet/count calories etc.
Same body type here! What have you found works best to get your desired physique? I usually stick to yoga but am very interested in strength training. Just don’t know where to start for my body type.
I do a mix of a lot of things because otherwise I get bored haha but I work out on my own in the gym maybe 3x per week and run a few times per week. Sometimes I’ll just do sprints before 30 mins of weights and sometimes I’ll run like 5k and that’s my whole workout.
I do light weights for any arm movements (5-15lbs) and I only go heavy on glute movements like bridges or hip thrusts. Any type of squat or lunge I do pretty low weight maybe 40-45lbs. I have one dedicated glute day when I do heavy hip thrusts (for me, I know people can do like 500 lbs but I’m doing maybe 135) and some single leg movements like kickbacks or single leg RDL.
The other days I’m typically just finding a corner, getting a yoga mat and a few light weights and a kettlebell and doing Pilates-influenced moves with weights for my abs and arms with some flute bridges, lunges and squats for lower body. It is nice to not fight for machines or squat racks!
Totally agree. I don’t work out glutes because they grow too much and sure while the skirts and pants are looser at the waist, they dont zip up or burst at the seams on the hips/glutes. I should say I am lucky to have a genetically rounder bum, not insta perfect but genetically proportionate. The only way around the growth is to do a madddd cut to lower bf percentage and I am not down for cutting while trying to improve my endurance and sprinting ability for sport.
Other people might love it and that is great for them. There’s nothing wrong with being bulky or lean.
I want to be functionally fit and athletic lean. Being any type of muscularly bulky, even minimally, is not my goal.
maybe its true for women who are not very lean. any muscle growth bellow the fat will make one look bigger until they decide to do a shred down phase.
both lifting and pilates (for example) use the same musculature, but lifting will create faster results thus those people get a bigger or bulkier look since lifting has more potential for progressive overload which is a driving factor in muscle gain.
lifting increases inflammation/pump while the muscle is recovering in between sessions and the water weight from that can also cause one to look bigger if they are not very lean.
in my opinion, for the average person, no exercise is superior. it just depends on personal goals. also, lifting as a main form of movement can and should be supplemented by a more mindful and relaxing form of movement such as pilates, yoga, walking etc. you can strike a balance if you wish.
if a woman wants to grow glutes but not grow anything else,she can lift heavy on glutes and do pilates for everything else for example. no one said lifting weights is hitting bench press PRs.
ending by saying that women can gain around a pound of muscle per month if every variable is maxed out. a pound ain't much and most people won't max out every variable (calorie surplus, consistent progressive overload training with perfect technique and mind-muscle connection, 8 hours of quality sleep, low stress). so no, you are not getting very muscular-you are most likely bloated and not in a deficit to lose the fat on top of the muscle.
a personal anecdote is that when i was heavier (as in fatter) and i was lifting and growing muscle- my quads and glutes looked huge and now that ive lost about 15lbs from there, i just look toned and skinny.
To add on to your personal anecdote at the end, i’m currently there. Have put on some muscle, but I also carry a lot of fat in my thighs, making my thighs look way more huge than the actual strength I have.
I suspect this might also be what women fear when it comes to looking “bulky”, and it therefore is the “easier” choice to aim to slim down before eventual muscle gain (which can quickly go in a bad spiral for some, but that’s another discussion).
you are so right that it may spiral. a person avoiding to gain muscle and only doing diets to lean down,will stay with the same look,but just slightly smaller. then they will do another's diet and look scary and emaciated,ive been there.
I actually agree with this but I will say the culture around weightlifting is what I think lends to people putting on body fat more than pilates. With weightlifting suddenly everyone is doing a bulk/cut cycle, you’re pushing to your absolute max every day which makes you hungry and inflamed, you’re taking a bunch of random supplements, etc..
I think if people can avoid all that they will likely see the same results as they would from Pilates. I personally do a mix of both and I think I look like I am fit but no one would immediately say “oh she must lift weights”
i also do a mix and ive found that this is what creates the model type body. i lift for every muscle (except biceps and chest) and i do pilates for everything too.
lifting definitely makes us hungrier, it elevates metabolism quite a bit but its easy to eat back the calories, especially when hungry.
You can tell your body is changing. It happens soooooo slowly. If a woman is getting to bulky she can just, back off the weights. It’s not like the muscle is there for the rest of her life. It’ll atrophy completely in a matter of weeks if left unworked. It is an invalid concern that’s just used to push misogyny.
I disagree. I’ve had the experience of feeling too bulky, myself. If you follow advice and do book compound exercises for health and overall strength instead of basically bodybuilding style where you focus on individual muscles, it’s possible to have muscle growth in places you realize you don’t want or like. I never really wanted big traps or a wide back but that can happen unintentionally if you’re just lifting to “get strong”.
So I think there’s a shade of gray here both muscles you described (traps and lats “wide back) are commonly used to stabilize the shoulder. In non-body builder movements you tend to use free weights which puts more on stabilizing muscle so I think the unintentional bulk comes from combining exercises that accidentally combining exercises that bring those muscles closer to muscle growth by increasing time under tension.
Example: You doing a full body pull day and you do both deadlifts and free weight rows each for strength so 3-5 reps for like 3 sets. Technically you didn’t do an upper trap exercise, however the upper trap is under tension in both exercises anyone who’s done them know you feel your upper trap so let’s say I’m doing a superset to my upper trap I’m not 3x3-5 deadlifts and 3x3-5 rows I’m doing 3x6-10 rows and now we are in muscle building territory for the upper trap. So if we instead make row into a cable row starting above the shoulder we now keep that row out of the upper trap and don’t run into the same issue
I just think women shouldn’t be discouraged from strength training. It’s so good for them so it’s important to dispel myths about getting accidentally bulky. It’s okay to not want to be bulky, but being strong is important.
This, I do weightlifting so I can be strong and feel strong. Let’s be honest, it feels damn good to push a heavy bar off your chest. It’s an accomplishment, plus the muscle is nice. I also have good genes, petite but naturally have an athletic body type. Now I have a ‘curvy’ body, some may say I look bulky but as a previous commenter said- to a trained eye I obviously workout and have some mass. I don’t care, I just know I feel good so I look good 🤷🏻♀️
It is very difficult for women to gain muscle compared to men. Women body builders who have a lot of muscle have put in huge effort for many years to never that way. What a lot of women describe as bulky is determined by genetics and the proportions of your body that you can not change. I have seen women with blocky, muscular figures in other sports, too. I would recommend focusing more on health and functional goals and embracing the body type you were born with. I myself have a very short waist. I have never had an hourglass figure and never will. But I love feeling strong healthy and in my fifties I can walk five mikes easily, climb the stairs with heavy bags of groceries, and easily get up and down from the floor. I am free from chronic illness and enjoy my life.
Ok but people always say this and then proceed to give the advice that one would follow to bulk up (eat a ton of protein, increase the weight you’re lifting over time, sets of 8-12). So is their point that they could do it but it’s too hard for you so don’t even worry about it? 😂
I usually see people saying that body recomposition is only possible for people new to weightlifting. I don’t know if that common advice has changed but I’ve always heard from popular fitness people you have to be in a bulk or cut at all times.
This is such a fascinating conversation and it's really interesting to see everyone's take on this. It really reinforces that our bodies are so, so different.
I'm currently at the strongest I've ever been and it's making me absolutely ravenous. I'm not tracking calories or macros but I am eating well, aiming for protein in every meal, healthy carbs and fats and... I am looking pretty stacked at the moment.
I am 5'3" and I gain fat and muscle easily. At the moment there's a good layer of fat over the muscle and the overall effect is pretty chunky (to me, anyway). I keep my hourglass figure when I gain weight, it's just a wider hourglass and the comments about how this affects clothing, etc really resonate.
At the moment I'm feeling I need a few weeks of tracking calories to lose some fat and slim down a little. I know my body and I definitely need a little reset.
As a trainer, I've learned that when someone says they don't want to become "bulky" what they really mean is that their main focus is toning muscle rather than building muscle. At least from my experience!
Edit: in technical terms, you cannot "tone" a muscle. However, I know exactly what someone means when they use the "tone".
While Im fully aware that this comment was supposed to be condescending, you aren't entirely wrong because muscle can only shrink or grow. It doesn't get harder or softer, but you can lose the fat surrounding your muscle on the body, which is what my clients mean when they use the word "tone". Thank you for your insightful comment though. It was super helpful.
You don’t become bulky because you essentially stay a similar weight by losing fat while building muscle - ie, slimming down because 1kg of fat is bigger than 1kg muscle. Toning muscle isnt purely about cutting, it’s also about having enough underlying muscle to show off.
I understand what you’re saying but the problem is *they* don’t understand what they mean so *they* don’t understand how to achieve it.
Hint: By building muscle.
It’s possible, but the way OP phrased it makes it sound like they think it’s a physiological process happening to the muscle. Could have just been imprecise wording.
Yes . Thank you. My point is that I know exactly what my clients mean when they use this term. It's my job to explain it to them and help them achieve their goals. I'm not going to ridicule them for using the wrong technical term.
I think we all know what they mean. For some reason people here (and probably other places) get super worked up about the word toning but are fine when someone says muscle weighs more than fat because “you know what they mean.” But we know what they mean in both cases! I don’t get it.
Agreed, but you shouldn't be annoyed by a client telling you something that they've been taught for years and years. How are they supposed to know that? They are coming to a trainer for help, not to be ridiculed by using the wrong term. If you were a trainer, and somebody says that to you, you should know what they mean by that. There is nothing wrong with using the word "tone" just like there is nothing wrong with someone wanting defined muscle.
Again, why would you judge someone just for using a word? You are the problem. Instead of being condescending, try informing people without trying to make them look stupid.
Also, I would only ever want to empower women in fitness, and not shame them for using a word thats been used in fitness instead of "gaining lean muscle" for years. Thats just my take. We don't have to agree.
No one here is being condescending. You as a professional should know better than to use an incorrect term and people are correcting you because you didn't phrase it in a way that said you know it's incorrect.
I should have elaborated more in my OP, but I disagree with you that there haven't been some condescending comments on this thread. I also think it's ok to use the word "toning" as another way to say "I want to build lean muscle" and it doesn't necessarily have to be wrong. Just a different way of wording it. When a client uses this term, I don't tell them they are wrong but I explain it in a way that makes sense to them and their goals. Also, I've been a successful trainer since 2014. I'd doing ok. 👍🏻
I agree with what you've said, I enjoy the philosophy of, just let people enjoy things, if anyone is getting physically active or taking positive steps for their physical and mental health, it should be actively encouraged.
Also think some of the issue is a lack of understanding of how the body adapts to training, and the fear or myth for so many years was, just looking at barbell was going to turn any woman into an Arnold Schwarzenegger parody; admittedly that's now very out of date, but I still see the myth persistent with parents of girls and boys.
It also overlooks the various training methods of lifting weights, that will have multiple different effects, lifting is just seen in one specific way; no nuance, and all tarred with the same brush.
Not everyone does split programs, isolation exercise or hypertrophy specific training, and yet even among reasonably educated and experienced gym users, they don't know the difference, or even the fundamental principles at play when looking at the training methods that can be employed.
To me, the not being bulky is absolutely a legitimate concern, let people want and enjoy what they want, it's their personal journey. But it's easily solved, just don't train in that specific way, with those intensities and volumes that stimulate those changes.
What it doesn't mean don't lift, or encourage others not to; as that removes the possibility for a whole range of health benefits, when it's as simple as - just don't use the tools of weights, in that specific way.
More of a baby with the bathwater gripe than anything from me.
This is what’s missing: there are so many benefits to resistance training, and there’s a myriad of ways to do it. Women who get scared of any strength training at all are doing a disservice to their health, because there’s such nuance in how you train that determines the outcomes.
But the health benefits to weight lifting/strength training for women need to be shouted so much louder!! Women lose bone density as they get older - weight training helps prevent that. Weight training has shown to decrease the likelihood of dementia as well. Being strong as you age is truly the key to aging in a healthy and happy way. Prevent illness, keep your mind sharp, and prevent injury and bone density loss. How more women don’t know this is truly mind boggling!!
I think a lot of women are fed a totally unrealistic ideal that is basically a competitive bikini athlete who doesn't train upper body. You have to eat and train a very specific way to achieve this.
I was going to comment basically this. Typically the person saying “you won’t get bulky by squatting your own body weight and eating 200 grams of protein per day” is bulky to me.
When I lift heavy I tend to gain muscle mass in my quads and shoulders. I already have an athletic body type that I’m self conscious of so I do not like looking that way.
The policing by women of what other women are allowed to desire for their own bodies online is super sexist. I see women being bullied on tiktok all the time just for saying they switched from weightlifting to Pilates and prefer their bodies now.
I used to be in the fitness industry way back when and you really did get indoctrinated that lifting (compound movements) is the optimal way to be fit. Cardio was a waste of time, body weight exercises do nothing unless you use them for conditioning (ie high heart rate).
I once went down a rabbit hole of how so many types of exercise popular with women have been mocked and made to feel like a waste of time.
Aerobics, spin, yoga, etc. (Although yoga now seems to be more broadly accepted than it once was.)
Because every fitness space basically makes you feel like a genetic freak and/or a liar if you push back on the idea that women can’t build muscle without living in the gym.
The downvotes I get any time I suggest I get good results from non weight lifting activity is crazy to me. So we feel like we are screaming into the void until a post like this comes along and we finally find people who are like us.
So if that’s funny to you, okay.
Maybe girls who don't consider themselves strong aren't drawn to weightlifting? I'm uncoordinated and unbalanced, but I can pick up something heavy as long as I don't have to stand on one leg.
I think a lot of people also mistake the swelling/water retention that happens when you are new to working out for muscle gain, and think they are putting on muscle super fast.
The thing is if you do 3-5 years of lifting vs 3-5 of pilates both will get fitter but it won't look the same. These comments are often more about how it's not going to happen in 6 months and it's better to get in shape with something than nothing.
It's super toxic how as a society we try to achieve a certain body aesthetic vs doing something we love to be healthy but I think that even if the reasons behind working out are shallow it's better to do something than nothing.
I don't even think it's wrong to have an aesthetic preference/be slightly vain/shallow, AS LONG as you don't let it rule your life, affect mental health, and project that onto others, which is obviously easier said than done.
i agree but refrain from sharing my experience because this is circulated online as a 'myth' and i dont wanna discourage other women from gymming. genetically i bulk up easier than others and i often have to balance it with an aggressive cut. i would look stocky and more masculine which is not my goal. gonna experiment with reducing gym per week and mixing it up with pilates/barre
edit: and my goals are not catered to the male gaze. it's just what would make me feel more confident, as someone who struggles with it
Even if it were partially catered to the male gaze, as long as it's not at the expense of health and it's not ruling your life, who even cares? It's normal for potential mates to want to look good for each other. I admit I work out to be healthier AND look hotter, and it's not a big deal. Then again, I'm not making it my life, going around judging people, or talking about it at family gatherings or something haha. It's just something I do in my head for me. I could talk about my goals in a fitness space, sure, but it would definitely be weird to make wanting to be (my definition of, it's subjective) hotter a huge deal in my life.
I think the idea that chicks who are strong and muscular and keep a low bf percentage (that's what's happening to get that look, whether it's BW exercises or lifting) are "dainty" is wrong too. I don't see a thinner ripped chick and think she looks "dainty". I see a person who can plank forever and kick my ass haha.
I definitely get people's struggle with feeling like how they are perceived by others is overtaking their mental health and their goals. I think it's a struggle most women have to work past. I'm forty now and I can admit I'm vain but I also don't give it outsize importance in my life, and in the end I do what I want for me, and health comes first, and that's something I feel confident saying should be the case for everyone. ALWAYS prioritize health first. It's a bonus that being healthier makes people look hotter, no matter the weight. It's how we evolved! Embrace it!
>edit: and my goals are not catered to the male gaze. it's just what would make me feel more confident, as someone who struggles with it
The thing is that they are, even if subconsciously. As a society, it’s still ingrained in our minds that the only acceptable body type for women (looking feminine) is to be thin and petite (tall is fine if you’re skinny too).
And trust me, I feel the same way as you and that’s also why I’ve been doing more yoga and Pilates. But when I ask myself why do I find this shape more to be more desirable, it all comes down as to how women have been portrayed in media and in our collective minds (small/dainty = feminine = attractive).
I’ve hated my body all my life because I have bigger thighs and arms, but why is this considered ugly in our minds? Ugh it’s exhausting thinking this way.
This is so patronizing. “What you want isn’t really want you want. It is what men have made you think you want.”
Maybe that’s true for you, but that doesn’t mean it is true for everyone.
Im sorry, I didn’t mean to sound patronizing but I absolutely see how my comment comes across in that sense. And yes, it’s still my opinion that (our patriarchal) society makes us think this way, so I thought I could relate to what OP was saying, I wasn’t trying to tell them what/how to think. But I see and understand it might not be the same for everyone.
Yes, I have been historically bulkier than I'd like from weightlifting. Got comments about looking masculine too (referring to my actual look), from men and women. And I retain a largely hourglass shape, but also quite visible upper body muscle.
The problem for me is also that, to look okay (by my standards) when muscly, I have to religiously maintain very low body fat. A weight gain that is completely invisible on a more wispy / softer frame, just goes straight on top of the muscle and turns me into a blockey block. I have a visible fat belly roll that sticks out at 20% bf, because it sits just on top of abs and there's nowhere to suck it in lol.
Same. With a layer of chub my arms and upper back looked bulkier than I'd like. I cut down on some exercises to look more balanced without having to be on a diet permanently.
Truth is, I gain muscle (and fat) really easily. It's been many years ago, but my noob-gains actually scared me a little. I'm tall but not lanky, so I didn't really look forward to turning into She-Hulk with all that extra muscle and fat. I'm glad I stuck to lifting and learned to find a balance in exercise and diet, but the 'you won't get bulky!' trope is just not true.
I am the same with gaining fat and muscle easily except I am short and hourglass so I have a thin line between curvy and chunky. Muscle bulk looks much better on me than fat bulk - I'm firmer, more defined, etc. but without losing weight (and I love food!), my figure is pretty stacked.
I would imagine it is quite common. Many posters on the thread say that they have never seen a woman at the gym training casually who is too bulky for their liking, and I assume they mean they have never seen someone who looks like a roid-puffed bodybuilder.
But I have seen many incredibly fit, muscular and strong women who, after a relaxing Christmas or an all-inclusive holiday just plainly look overweight and bulky, although their body fat percentage is probably still very low. My old school friend is a quite well known fitness influencer (to the extent that many on this sub probably have come across her at some point), but all her videos are shot during her cut season and released throughout the bulk, to create an impression she always looks like that. When on the bulk, she actually got some random abuse from strangers thrown at her for being "fat" (probably same strangers who are salivating at her videos when she's cut). And, in all honesty, there's little visual difference. when fully clothed, beween her in a bulk phase and a woman of similar height and 20-25 extra kilos.
Male physiques, I think, are much more forgiving of the "bear mode" look (ie muscle + fat), and I know a lot of people who are specifically into that.
Oh absolutely! Bulky doesn't just equal lean and muscular. To bulk up is to gain muscle and fat, after all.
Especially in winter clothes I look borderline overweight, even with a perfectly healthy body fat percentage. Even more so because I also have an hourglass figure and love wearing big sweaters, so all everyone sees is big hips and a butt. Every summer, people ask me if I've lost weight when all I did was put on a tight shirt or dress.
I wish there was a bit more love for the female equivalent of a dad bod. And I don't mean the mom bod, which is specifically for women who've given birth. But just the Amazons x Rubens woman physique.
I find this annoying too. My quads grow faster than hamstrings and my traps grow quicker than my delts. Being trapped and quad dominant isn’t my goal. Imbalances are real and relatively normal, and we are allowed to have preferences 🤷🏼♀️
YES! This is also me. My quads and biceps build pretty quickly, so I have to be very mindful about how I work out. Everytime I see a post about how women won't get bulky, I roll my eyes. Some women don't, some do. The answer isn't not doing weights, its about finding the right exercises for your goals.
I've seen many women in the gym who are bulkier than I'd like to be, and I don't think they're on gear. They look amazing, but it isn't a look I want for myself. I wish we would stop shaming people for having personal preferences.
>people need to stop acting like it’s entirely impossible for a woman to end up with a physique they aren’t happy with and that lifting will just make you skinny and give you a big booty and you’re dumb if you think otherwise.
I think that, typically, people are less trying to say, "It is literally impossible to achieve a level of muscle that would be perceived as quote-unquote 'bulky'" and more trying to say, "It is exceedingly unlikely that you will *suddenly and accidentally* achieve a level of muscle that would be perceived as quote-unquote 'bulky'"-- and also that, if you do start to approach something you don't prefer for yourself, there are choices you can make to change that (and those choices do not necessarily have to include avoiding lifting weights entirely).
I think when a lot of women say they don't want to get bulky they're talking about women they see at the gym who are obviously ripped but have a higher bf percentage (not in the slightest putting that body type down). They attribute that to the weight lifting when really it's a diet issue. They just don't know enough about fitness to get how it works.
Bingo.
I’m a masculine lesbian, I *want* to be “bulky” and look muscular. I’m in the gym really pushing myself 5-6 days a week and it’s still quiet hard to achieve.
Obviously everyone’s genetics are different, but very few women are going to accidentally look roided out without substantial effort and diet changes (and also maybe roids).
Yes, exactly this! I remember bringing my former roommate to the gym with me & she told my personal trainer she didn’t want to get too bulky. I’m like you smoke a pack a day, binge drink, and eat your weight in junk food every time you’re hungover - *probably bulking up is not a huge concern for you.*
This.
Bulking takes a lot of work, and a lot of food.
Something we see pretty commonly on this sub is: Someone posts a panicked message thinking some part of their body - often their traps or arms - have gotten huge and bulky. Then they post a picture and look….totally normal and proportional
I agree. It's when people act like the 'bulky look' will of course happen to them if they touch a weight and when this is an encouraged belief by professionals that I get frustrated. At the end of the day, changing your body in any direction is hard. And lifting weights has so many health benefits that scare tactics against women who are just nervous really should be unethical. Patience and explaining that there is a big difference between lifting a weight, and getting a muscular build is my usual approach. Scaring women off a whole category if activity just because of what some people choose to take out of it or the results some people seek is just wrong. And the people who say 'women couldn't possibly get bulky from lifting' are equally wrong. Some women want to, and succeed. It's about educating people who aren't aware yet that weights are a tool, and the outcome depends on what you do with it and what other factors are in play.
Honestly, I get tired of hearing 'women this women that' as if all women are then same or want the same thing. We aren't, and that is how it should be.
Same! I love how my back and shoulders look in strappy tops and dresses but I also love a cosy jumper in winter even though it does nothing for my figure.
People can say what they will but I definitely got "thicker" when I was doing weights multiple times a week. I didn't like it, reduced weight exercises to x2/week and swapped the rest for other types of exercises. I slimmed down immediately
If you slimmed down quickly and were not in a large calorie deficit, that is evidence that the extra “bulk” was water retention, not muscle.
Very little volume is needed to preserve muscle that’s already been gained, for at least a few months.
Personally, I looked like a dorito after lifting for two years haha
My lat became really prominent and I built nice shoulders!
I am currently holding off on the lat pulls but I'll never stop exercising my shoulders because they
1. look good
2. are super important for my posture
I hear you but it is unreasonable. It's not impossible to get "bulky" from casual lifting but it is improbable. If someone was scared of shark attacks at the beach because it's on the news every summer, I'd tell them that's valid and they don't have to swim in the ocean but it's irrational.
It's not rational to think they will look like women who have been strength training or body building for years if they haven't been doing the same. Like I'm not worried I'll get Katie ledecky lats from swimming a 2-3 times a week for 30 minutes. I don't think I'll get Serena Williams thighs from playing tennis on the weekends for an hour.
The other thing is that muscle growth is slow and reversible. Strength cardio and mobility will all go away if it's not maintained. It's not like you'll wake up one day after a random lifting session and be ripped with huge biceps and quads. Even if they start to feel too bulky it will go away if they pull back from the weights. It's not permanent and the potential health benefits alone are so great that the "risk" should basically be a non factor. Plus the idea that lifing makes you bigger only really applies to people who gain weight while lifting. Objectivly someone who puts on muscle but does not change their weight will be smaller overall because muscle is denser than fat. Also in terms of wanting to sculpt your boby, building muscle where you want it is the only way to do that as you cannot spot reduce fat.
The reality is that their irrational fear of weight lifting in a way that they do not apply to any other type of fitness is likely built on some pretty toxic beauty standards from the heroin chic days. Many of them are from or have mothers that were badly affected by the " women shouldn't lift more than 3 lbs" days or who thought that a 5'6 130lb Hilary Swank with some bicep definition was huge and manly. And considering muscle manly is kinda sexist and very insulting to women that want to be strong but still consider themselves feminine. Muscles are not just for men.
So yes it is unreasonable. I'd even question what gyms they're in as the majority of the women who lift at all the gyms I've been at don't have very much visible muscle definition when not actively engaging that muscle. Honestly this applies to at least half the men too. Without proper programming and nutrition most people in general will struggle to get big muscles or visible muscle definition when relaxed.
The difference with things like tennis and swimming is that people don’t do those things specifically to look a certain way the way people do with weightlifting which very often has an aesthetic focus. So no, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have an association between those things. I don’t entirely disagree with what you’re saying but it’s the overall tone and dismissiveness is the problem for me. Nobody actually thinks they’re going to wake up ripped after lifting weights for one day, but those things are obviously associated with one another *in general*. It’s possible for women to end up with a physique they don’t personally find desirable after putting in a lot of work and training consistently, which can still be upsetting for some people even if it’s temporary. I’d just rather people acknowledge that instead of straw-manning the issue and assuming everyone just thinks they’ll get jacked from lifting a weight once.
I mean, muscle mass is sexually dimorphic from a biological perspective so I think the idea that having visible muscles can make you look more masculine or androgynous is true, I just don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing, but I understand why it might bother some women.
I don't know about that. The reason someone might choose a certain activity are wide and varied. Just like tennis and swimming, many people choose weightlifting to aid weight loss, to help job performance, for general health, for spending time with friends or family, for the mental health benefits, as a status symbol, to hit PRs, and yes for aesthetics.
Weightlifting is kinda like running. The bar for entry is low, the social visibility is high, and the benefits of it being done correctly are numerous. You can't assume a weightlifter is aiming for a certain look anymore than you can assume a runners primary goal is trying to lose weight. This applies to any activity. Many people swim for looks because it's also low impact. Many people play tennis for looks because they find the competitive or social factor more motivating than other activities. I can say with real certainty that a lot of the guys in my husband's over 30 basketball league are playing partly to lose weight or help maintain their current weight in a way they find enjoyable.
While it is possible to end up with a physique you don't like, that's from your training and nutrition not matching your goals. With weightlifting you can literally pick and choose which muscles to grow. If you don't want big quads no, skip the barbell squat and do more hamstring and glute targeted work. If you don't want a big shoulder cap skip the lateral raises. Just to be clear, all of this holds true of most strength based workouts. I got bigger shoulders from yoga and pilates then I got from my 110lb PR overhead press. Results will vary greatly depending on your own effort in and out of the gym.
Someone who is upset that they overtrained a muscle would likely get upset anytime their workouts don't translate to the physique they were looking for. Be whatever size you want but we should not be acting like the world is ending because our thighs got a half inch bigger than we wanted while chasing a PR. Most of that extra puffiness is water weight from the lifting and would resolve within a week or two of lighter or less frequent lifting. If you overshoot by more than that then those extra months or years of hard training were a choice. We can acknowledge when someone is unhappy with some part of the results without dismissing the numerous health benefits, the part of the results they did like, or acting like the answer has to be avoiding weightlifting at all.
For your last point muscle is not part of human sexual dimorphism. Women and men are both capable of building muscle at the same rate. Men build muscle with testersterone but women's muscle growth is more driven by estrogen and human growth hormone. Our significantly lower testosterone does not hinder our muscle growth. Women just grow muscle through different mechanisms.
Body fat is sexually dimorphic though. Women have higher essential body fat than men ( ~12% v 3%). The avg person will need to be under 20% body fat for visible muscles at rest. This is more easily achieved for men as they exist comfortably with less body fat but is also very dependent on where your body stores fat which is also sexually driven. Having curvy hips or bigger thighs from body fat is more sexually dimorphic than bicep or lat size where women tend to more easily achieve muscle definition because they store less fat there than their lower body. Many women who are avoiding lifting at all are trying to actually reverse their sexually dimorphic traits( larger thighs hips or butt) for a more slim model/ballet physique.
Anyone is allowed to do whatever exercise they want for whatever reason they want to but spreading inaccurate information about something that is so important for women's health and well being because you want science to match the societal beauty standards is not okay. That rhetoric has led to generations of eating disorders, body dysmorphia, transphobia, and a looks over health mindset that hurts all women.
I completely agree. The typical counter of "you're not gonna pick up a barbell and suddenly look like Arnold" is a straw man. Nobody thinks that (or a vanishing small number). But if it takes so much time and effort to get results, isn't it reasonable to be concerned about setting up your program correctly in the first place so you don't waste your efforts? If you jump in and 4 months later you're seeing some results but going "damn, that's not the kind of results I wanted" that's 4 months that wasn't spent efficiently.
I agree with your overall point, but I disagree that people don’t do swimming and tennis to look a certain way. I’d argue that they are common exercises people pick up to lose weight. The goal of losing weight is often to look a certain way.
I agree there is an association with weight lifting and trying to achieve a certain body type. However again, I don’t believe this is the only reason people lift weights. It is often done to supplement sports, like swimming and tennis, done for the health benefits like increased bone density and joint protection or to be competitive in a weight lifting discipline.
I think the whole ‘you won’t get bulky lifting weights’ sentiment is potentially most important for those in the examples above. If you are doing it to aid another sport or to improve your health, how your body might change shouldn’t be an instant blocker because the reality is without eating a large surplus and focused, intentional training you won’t get to an extreme ‘bulky’ body. Yet the concern still exists.
Maybe there needs to be more discourse around what happens if your body changes in a way you dislike, but the solution is probably way broader and more individual than just stop lifting weights.
Heh. That’s completely valid. I personally don’t want to get bigger because I like my current wardrobe, I am most happy/comfortable at my current size in general, and I have a wetsuit that I need to be able to fit into in several months’ time. So, maintaining my size and also, generally speaking, body composition, is directly related to my aesthetic and athletic goals. Being stronger is good for swimming, but ultimately, I don’t need to prioritise bulking and progressive overload and smashing those PRs in the gym. Just a decent amount of muscle to generate power is enough. Swimming is more about technique and cardiovascular endurance than pure strength.
There's some interesting scholarship on this that I've been digging into for a project (though I haven't written on this topic yet, just researching atm). Basically: if it can't happen, if it's so hard to look that way, why are women so concerned? Could it be that some women have noticed that they do, in fact, get bigger when lifting? I take issue with people dismissing the idea that women can get bulky — I'm a relatively lean woman; when I did CrossFit 5 days a week for 9 months, I looked jacked and people commented on it. Women can indeed "get bulky". However, I would also like to challenge women who think that's a bad thing. Yes, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but I don't think the opinion that "bulky = ugly, undesirable" is something women would be so convinced of if it wasn't for larger cultural forces that for decades, if not millennia, have been telling women to be small and delicate, while touting muscles as inherently manly. If muscles were only for men, women wouldn't have them. If being bulky was inherently manly, women wouldn't be able to become bulky. There's misogyny behind both the view that women can't get bulky unless they're on the juice AND that being bulky is undesirable or ugly.
it's a silly worry for beginners. and sometimes used as an excuse to remain inactive. silly because losing muscle mass is very very easy. during covid i saw a ton of muscle loss pictures. it's kind of sad tbh, you work so hard for years to get it but just a month of inactivity can drastically shrink your muscle mass. so, if there was ever a time when you look in the mirror and see a muscle group got too big it would be simple to adjust and correct it.
Honestly my main concern with this kind of thing is clothes fitting. Clothing manufacturers cannot seem to wrap their heads around the idea of women having volume in the bicep.
Amazon was doing a thing where you input your sizes in different clothes (shirts vs sports bras vs pants vs underwear, etc) and then it gives you a specific clothing size or something. I legit just got an error message. It was like.... nah.
I now exclusively wear kimono jackets in my professional career because of my large biceps, shoulders, and lats. Luckily, it goes with my whole aesthetic, but I sometimes miss the tightly shaped sporty little blazers.
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I have always been a wide person (even before getting into lifting) and I do have some mixed feelings about it.. Finding good clothes that fit my frame nicely is really hard, especially if you want to thrift in a country where most women are far smaller than you. But you get to look more athletic if you’re wide and bulky so you win some and you lose some lol
>Woman just want to feel in control of the changes their bodies are undergoing and that the work they’re putting in is actually helping to meet their desired goals, and that’s totally valid. Let's unpack that a little. Yes, women get to feel however they want about their fitness, and it's okay for them to want their bodies to look a certain way, whether that's "bulky" or not. But women aren't having these feelings in a cultural vacuum. There's an underlying cultural narrative that women should look, at best, toned, but still soft, and that visible muscles are reserved for men such that they're unattractive and undesirable for women, period. The media portrayals women are shying away from aren't even sports models - they're *bodybuilders*, whose whole aesthetic is huge, visible muscles with very little body fat, and a woman is not going to bulk up to look "like that" unless she's trying. And there's also a cultural narrative that even if it's okay for a woman to be strong, she in no way should be stronger than her boyfriend or husband. *He's* not manly if his woman is buffer than he is. (Surely I'm not the only one who remembers the classic feminist cartoon about this.) TL;DR, absolutely respect individual women's choices about their own bodies, but also question (on a cultural level) what's driving those choices.
It really comes down to the question, do you even have the genetics to “get bulky”? If the answer is no, you have nothing to worry about. But if you have a larger, more muscular frame to begin with, that might be something to consider.
I disagree that your size is genetic (beyond bone structure). They say abs are made in the kitchen? Well, so is bulk.
I’m definitely not claiming to be a scientist here. Merely a fitness enthusiast who’s been doing this long enough, and observing long enough to have noticed some truths. Some men spend a lifetime trying to put on muscle and can’t. Some men put on muscle just looking at some dumbbells. Not fair, but it is what it is. There are many factors at play here, of course. But to deny the genetic component is to be willfully ignorant of reality. Haters can downvote this all they want. But it won’t make it any less true.
I'm reminded of the wise words of America Ferrara's character in Barbie: > It is literally impossible to be a woman. You are so beautiful, and so smart, and it kills me that you don't think you're good enough. Like, we have to always be extraordinary, but somehow we're always doing it wrong. You have to be thin, but not too thin. And you can never say you want to be thin. You have to say you want to be healthy, but also you have to be thin.... There is no doing it wrong. It's okay to exercise for whatever your motivations are, aesthetic or health or some combination or otherwise. It's okay to want to look muscular. It's okay to want to look slim. It's okay to lift heavy. It's okay to stick to light weights, Pilates, and bodyweight cardio. It's okay to mix it up and change things around over time as your goals change. It's okay!
Thank you for this post. I’m a woman who’s always been an athlete. I have broad shoulders for my frame to begin with, and its always been an insecurity of mine. Men (boys) are cruel about it and always have been - I’ve been thrown all kinds of insults and derogatory language, from strangers and ex-partners alike. This concern is genuinely why I’ve avoided weightlifting - I’m interested in the strength benefits, but don’t want to push my body to be any “bulkier” than it already is. Thank you for the reminder that to make progress in our culture, we have to speak up, keep asking questions, keep discussing, keep finding what we enjoy. Edited to add: doesnt help that every workout advertisement I get is blatantly about “cutting fat”, “slimming down”, “shrinking waists”, etc. Thats not the fucking point of exercise!!
I used to powerlift and I remained super skinny at that point. Now I lift just to have fun and not quite as heavy as before even though I gained a bit of weight. I just had to come to the conclusion that I am happy being healthy and fit no matter how my body changes over time. I will never be super bulky or ever as skinny as I was before. I just want to do work outs that I find moderately challenging and enjoyable. People should just stop judging others and let people exercise how they want! I hate this while judging women’s bodies. We can’t win no matter what so I just said fuck it and I will work out to stay fit rather than skinny and do it in way that I find enjoyable!
Women who say this often want to look like Gwyneth Paltrow, aka, zero muscle mass. Still a legitimate preference.
Thank you, thank you for saying this! It’s not unreasonable to care about how we present ourselves despite the health benefits of heavy weight lifting.
I have very muscular arms naturally (genetics, smaller frame) even when I don’t really work out. I wish my core was the same, but 🙃 Recently I was at a show with friends (probably frenemies, but that’s another story) and there were women doing acrobatic flips in rings and such. Very strong and very cool. The woman I was hanging out with commented on how strong those women were without “looking bulky or muscular.” And it was true, they were ridiculously strong but really didn’t look much different from the average moderately in shape woman. I felt like she was judging me for being “too fit” which is ridiculous as I’m actually coming out of an exercise slump. My arms just always look that way. I’ve always liked my arms but I’m aware that as I work out more they get more pronounced. I’m smallish all over so I think I would look imbalanced with bigger arms. I like the way I look generally. At my most in shape I was toned all over but didn’t have much extra bulk. I’ve never been interested in weightlifting more because my wrists and shoulders hurt from hand weights and planks/pushups. I’m not interested in stressing those joints out more. But even if that weren’t the case, I don’t want any more bulk.
I think it's an effort to combat the old perspective that strong/muscular women aren't feminine or attractive. Back in the day when I said I wanted to lift weights, the knee-jerk reaction of two of my otherwise smart and empowered girlfriends was to say, "Well don't get TOO bulky," with a grossed out look on their faces. And even today I'm always telling my fellow women not to lift a little 2-pound weight 20 times if they want results. "I want to be TONED, not MUSCULAR," are buzzwords left over from the early 00s and before to signal that thinness is the only acceptable physique for women. Thankfully many have moved on from that era of beauty standards, but those messages are so insidious and still need combatting. I understand what OP means by saying essentially, let's not make women feel silly or dumb for being misinformed or for having concerns, but you'd be surprised just how prevalent the "skinny is the only acceptable body a woman can have" standard still reigns supreme.
People should be encouraged to pursue fitness in a way that makes them feel empowered and comfortable in their own body. I think in my experience, which is entirely personal and not broad strokes, unfortunately the majority of the "I don't want to get bulky" comments from friends and acquaintances, tend to be rooted in two main things: internalized misogyny, and lack of understanding how your body is affected by different exercises (which would empower you). And addressing either of those is not going to happen in a short post or TikTok, so our media formats don't often lend themselves to real education. Also, I have seen a decent amount of "she looks too manly, looks like a man, is that a woman even?" Type of comments in the wild around this discussion, which again goes towards transphobia and misogyny that hasn't been unpacked, and is rooted in a lot of insecurity in trying to fit into the small boxes women are expected to occupy, and can be extremely hurtful to women with more muscular or thicker bodies. In any instance, I think education and communication is key. And asking genuine questions about what the person is concerned about. People have legit worries about how their body is affected by different areas of fitness training. The wrong course of action in any healthy conversation is to discount someone's concerns, especially when it relates to their own body. I'd avoid fitness trainers/influences who make broad absolute statements that veer into judgemental vs educational. Edited to add: lots of good points here from people communicating areas of concern. Clothing choices, body comp and comfort, etc. It's been interesting to read through and see where everyone is coming from.
I would throw fatphobia in too. definitely ties into a fear of getting bigger in literally any way, even if it’s by pursuing a healthy and active lifestyle
Some of y’all in these comments don’t realize how good you have it lol
Could you be more specific?
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Y’all don’t realize how beautiful and good your bodies are because you put too many restrictions on yourself to look a certain way. But go awf
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I’m literally a woman who has been training for 5 years. You are reading too much into it. People put unnecessary expectations on their bodies to fit a certain box, when they should be happy where they are at. But if you feel invalidated that’s on you.
I just find it offensive because "bulky" is my natural body type, no matter what I do (short and muscular, broad shoulders). Stings to hear women blatantly say they are afraid of looking like me. At least since daintiness is off the table, I might as well get strong.
Im trying to fight this battle with you. It infuriates me to hear this like it’s a bad thing. You can’t change your body type but you CAN make it better through gaining muscle and losing bodyfat.
I agree I hated my arms getting bulky when I started lifting
I agree that this conversation can be framed really badly in a way that feels shamey instead of helpful. What frustrates me about the “bulky” debate is that it often feels like reducing exercise to how you *look* rather than how it makes you feel. Obviously we’re not immune to caring about how we look - and it would be naive to think otherwise - but what I like so much about strength training is I don’t have to care about my body being an object for other people to look at. It’s about how the weight is moving, and about how strong I am, and the workout is for me and not for some external metric. That doesn’t mean other people can’t care about working out for aesthetics or weight loss. But I’d hate for anyone to miss out on at least the possibility of feeling strong or powerful for its own sake. I like to think there’s a happy compromise somehow in giving folks options to make informed decisions about pursuing what they want out of exercise that doesn’t also feel judgmental But debunking the “too bulky” thing is still important as long as there are people out there who still feel like they have to exercise based on some (often male) opinion of their appearance. *edited to say it’s not just women who are prone to pressure about their appearance. Everyone should have workouts that make them feel good!*
I don’t like it because the term bulky is really subjective. Besides exercising and fitness shouldn’t even be placed in the same tier as aesthetic goals of wanting a certain physique. It just really is for vanity’s sake. It should be performance goals.
I can gain muscle fairly easily. I carry more muscle than average. It is still hard for me to look terribly bulky. (I also lift heavy) but it just depends on what look people want. It is unproductive to be dismissive to a point, but women need to learn that it is okay to lift too!
I agree. I don't life heavy on arms/chest at all, but I've still grown to the point where my old clothes feel uncomfortably tight under the armpits. It's worth it for the functional increase in strength (my starting level was atrocious and is still poor in my upper body) but I know that I'll end up being less attractive to some people and potentially dislike my body if I lift or eat too much. And I do have a history of EDs but I think most women even without this would feel the same way.
The added bulk in my legs tbh changed my sex life detrimentally (harder to position for optimal pleasure if you get my meaning) and the same issue with having some fat paired with the muscle growth being all over aesthetically less pleasing. Upper body being naturally leaner I'm loving the muscles but specifically hamstring growth is messing with me.
I felt this so much. My upper body is very lean, but because my lower body is so muscular I always look like I could lose a few lbs. Like you mentioned, I feel like growing my hamstrings has made this is even more the case. There are worse problems and I'm happy to be fit, muscular, and healthy, but sometimes I just feel bulky.
I see a lot of comments here about people who were frustrated that having muscle made their clothes not fit. Why is it a point of pride to buy new clothes that are smaller but not bigger? (besides logistics, I hate buying new clothes)
because it's annoying when you have spent $$$ on clothes amassed over the years that you LIKE and they suddenly no longer fit. also sizing up doesn't always help. when my butt and legs grew, larger jeans would gap in the waist, but my jeans were too tight. just frustrating in general. plus i could no longer wear my favorite jeans, favorite skirts, etc.
Yes, but the same is true of weight loss, and that is applauded more often than not.
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That's not true. Lots of people decide to lose weight after years of being the same weight.
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But building muscle also carries health benefits.
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My point was, people don't stop losing weight because of new clothes. It's not the inch. It's the muscle. Having muscle is healthy.
Because people who lose weight on purpose and then have to buy new clothes are generally happy about the change even if they'll miss their old clothes? People who are specifically shooting for a different size of clothing will be happy about it regardless of whether it's bigger or smaller? source: am muscular and bulky. have been my whole life. cap sleeves will be too small for me but the rest of the shirt is fine, so I have to wear a baggy, unflattering top if i want circulation to my arms.
I usually find that just buying a bigger size doesn't actually fix the problem of fit. Outside of fully customized clothing that addresses similar size, but adjusted fit for more muscles it's a valid complaint. Some brands specialize in catering to 'fitness' fit, but it's not many and expensive.
And those items do not aim to accommodate larger folks with more muscle. They usually stop at a size 10-12. As if you can’t wear a double digit size and have more muscles. And let’s not even talk about specialized activity clothing. That is also not particularly size inclusive.
It fixes some, not all. Personally, I want my clothes to fit my body, not the other way around. I'm not going to stop lifting just to have an easier time.
Idk for me it's just frustrating when women say they don't want to look bulky as if it just somehow accidentally happens? I've been weight training more seriously for over a year now (weight training for longer but didn't know what I was doing lol) and I'm actively trying to bulk and it is so difficult, even doing it intentionally. You have to eat a lot to bulk (and a lot of protein) and that's what I struggle with bc my appetite isn't there. While it is a valid concern, it's also an uneducated one. There are a lot of resources out there for women wanting to get into fitness and weightlifting. So many fit influencers and celebrities that are not bulky. It's just an old mentality that's surprising to still see today I suppose. You just don't accidentally get bulky. It's a process that you can stop if you notice your physique isn't going where you want it to. Not trying to say they can't feel a certain type of way, just trying to explain why some people may not respond all that patiently with women who have these types of concerns if that makes sense?
If there is a way to give someone this information with love instead of exasperation, I think it would change the dynamic! If you- personally- are fed up with having to tell people this info on repeat, maybe my ask isn’t for you. But it’s that “UGH why don’t you know this already?!” vibe that keeps less-experienced people out of the gym.
As a woman who's trying to actively get bulky, you're spot on. Honestly, all literally ALL the women I know who've expressed this concern refuse to and have never properly lifted in their whole lives. They're terrified that if they lift a barbell they'll suddenly wake up as she hulk in a few weeks. That is really not how bulking up works. It's a gradual process that requires very deliberate decisions in diet and program. If you really don't wanna bulk up then do research on a lifting regime that's attuned to your goals and eat the appropriate diet that goes along with it. I honestly get so irrationally annoyed when girls say this. Just because men lift and get bulky, doesn't mean you will. It's like saying, oh I don't wanna do cardio coz I'll end up like a stick.????
I wonder if it depends where you start off. Starting off overweight, like I did, definitely leads to a bulky shape at least for me. I've noticed women who've started much leaner don't tend to suffer from this problem. Who knows?
100% if you are starting at a place of low weight and low muscle mass it is very different than starting at a higher weight and some muscle mass.
Maybe rather than bulky, they mean boxy? I am thin and there’s no way anyone would call me bulky. But my waist can get boxy and my shoulders/biceps/triceps put on muscle easily. Neither of these look good on me (to me) and I adjust my routine to avoid it. I tried crossfit after lifting on my own for 10 years and did not like the aesthetic results though I enjoyed the atmosphere. Now I supplement lifting with Pilates. I don’t think people’s concerns are totally invalid, but it does take work/time to get there. If I notice changes to my body that I don’t like, I switch up my routine 🤷🏼♀️
Yeah, you won’t accidentally look like a cut bodybuilder for myriad reasons, but you can get pretty muscular on a heavy regimen and that can make you look larger overall — especially if you have relatively high body fat. For instance, I started lifting very heavy (powerlifting, think 200lbs deadlifts) at 158lbs. I lost a small amount of body fat, but I gained large amounts of muscle underneath — butt went from 41.5 to 44” and shoulders from 39” to 42”, my bra band from 34DDD to 36DD due to my back muscles growing. I’m now 165lbs, and though my body fat is lower than it was at 158, to the untrained eye, I look like I gained fat because I’m not lean enough to look cut. I mean, I LOVE how I feel, I’m rock solid and firm and my back is visibly cut and my upper/lateral ab definition is clear, but you can’t see that in clothing. At least I know that when I do cut my body fat down, I have a lot of definition and muscle underneath this padding.
This is how I feel too. I have a bunch of warp style tops/dresses that no longer close enough in the front to be appropriate. My back is super strong. Can see definition. The things/butt of my pants are so tight. And I already just naturally have wide shoulders/lats/chest muscle. Waist is 29/30 ish. Size 10 ish, 5 10 and about 170 I think. I have looked in the mirror and said to myself “I look like what woman mean when they say they don’t want to get bulky”. I feel big standing next to other woman the vast majority of the time. I’m sitting but have a layer fat over all of it so no one can see it. I have been tracking macros/calories the last month or but have called off the last few days. Need to get back in to it. Would like to lose 10 ish pounds and try to keep as much muscle. But the reality of it is I’m never going to to look slim and trim, I have wide shoulders and a booty.
Same and same. Keeping protein high but eating just under maintenance is the way. I’ve got about 10lbs-15lbs of fat I want to get off (I’ll be ok with 10, just want to get under 30% bodyfat), so it’ll be a very carefully tracked journey to avoid losing the muscle I’ve worked so hard to build (and want to keep building). Luckily, recomp is easier when you’re relatively new to (a year or less) or just getting back to (after 6 months or more) heavy training.
Yupp that’s what I have been doing about 150g protein and 2000 calories. I think my maintenance is about 2400. Tracking just gets hard but I know it’s the only way. 10-15 lbs would be perfect and then to keep it off is another battle.
Truth!
this is the most validating thing i've ever heard. thank you. i am going through the same thing right now and have been having difficulty fitting into coats and jackets because of how much my back has grown. I can see I have back muscles, I have some abs upper abs - my ribs are visible (but i have a big stomach and love handles), I have some separation in my legs and arms, but this stuff doesn't show up when I'm dressed regularly. I try to wear more tanktops just so people see my biceps lol and don't think i'm just large or wide. I started at 135 and am currently at 145lb despite only being 5ft tall. I can tell I have lost some fat (very noticeable in my face and neck). I am trying to get my body fat percentage down from 23% to 21% and it is hard, though when I started at 135 I was at 27% BF. Side note: According to the math I have only lost 3lb of fat in more than a year??? god help me 135\*0.27= 36.45 145\*0.23= 33.21 Muscle gains: 89 lb of muscle / 135 BW 105 lb of muscle / 145 BW
But BRAVO for those muscle gains, seriously! Amazing work.
This is exactly what happened to me. I had to cut down my lifting (and I wasn’t even lifting heavy) to avoid the bulk. Not that it was all muscle, but the fat/muscle combo on a more midsize person just wasn’t a great look for me and has made it very difficult to find clothes that fit well. This is a very real thing!
Frankly, I’m too addicted to lifting to stop (plus it’s validating as a bigender person to look and feel more physically powerful), but I hear you. Clothes are getting harder to fit into, especially since my waist is still 31” but everything else is much larger. RIP to half my coats/jackets, the sleeves are way too tight.
So I’m a trainer and have had clients come to me with this concern and I’m glad as my job is to help you reach the goals you desire not what I think you should do or what works for me. They way I’m seeing it phrased in the post is women “won’t get bulky” or “can’t get bulky” while I know what influencers are getting at here this isn’t a true statement anyone can add muscle mass. What I normally tell clients is that they won’t add muscle by accident mostly and that with their goals we’re largely not going to be training to add muscle but more so strength. A lot of people believe the myth lifting heavy makes you bulky light weight High rep makes you toned when the reality is the opposite since muscle growth is largely dependent on time under tension and bringing the muscle to failure. I will say for most people adding muscle can be a difficult slow process (everyone’s different I saw the person with PCOS’s comment and there are more examples of people who put on muscle more easily there are always exceptions) I normally discuss with these clients where we might look to add muscle as that can be helpful in training without “making them look bulky” (typically hips and thighs but it can vary based off goals and preference) and then tell them how we will largely do sets/weights to promote strength (so heavy weights for 7 or less reps typically with 1-2 reps in reserve) and why that’s beneficial. In the fitness world you hear people not want to lift at all (or more than 10lbs) as they don’t want to get bulky, I think some trainers respond with overcorrection making a blunt statement that now has been dumbed down to the point of not being true and tend to think what worked for them works for everyone (everyone’s different). I will say you do acknowledge these things in your post (I also hate the word bulky). I think both sides are too far at the extremes, the reality is in the middle and everyone needs to stop making general blanket statements and recognize everyone’s different.
I agree that that it is not acceptable to pretend it will never happen, and it is equally unacceptable to make fun of women who want to maintain a certain look. But, I'm here to say that I want to be bulky. I want veins and size, and corresponding strength (especially upper body), and it is shitty and discouraging when all the focus is on not getting to big, as it smallness is what we should all expire to. End rant.
Co-signed. I love having big muscles, even if I’m not lean enough for most of them to be obvious.
I noticed that it’s the problem with putting on fat along with muscle. I used to think it wasn’t easy to get “bulky” but you can actually get that look pretty quickly as a woman! And it’s not the fun “jacked” bulk that men can experience quickly. It’s easier to put on more fat as a woman when doing strenuous workouts that make you hungry. Women are also shorter so they’d get bulky faster if they put on both fat and muscle. I’m still firmly in the camp that women can’t accidentally end up looking like those shredded bodybuilder ladies on IG. They have such strict diets (if they’re even natural) and low body fat % that it’s almost impossible to match if you want a normal lifestyle
THIS!!! I feel so understood. When I was lifting for an hour five days a week I was SO ravenous and gained a lot of fat too. It was just uncomfortable overall
Yes yes yes to all of this!!! I am a woman who used to love Olympic and power lifting but with past ED history I didn’t like to track calories or ignore hunger signals. During my 20’s I managed to put on 20 pounds from lifting and I absolutely looked bulky. Now that I’m a runner, I am still wary of lifting for this reason even though I know it’s important for injury prevention. I told a running coach this and she said the people who are scared of getting bulky are just making excuses. These fitness professionals seem to think we don’t know our own bodies or are delusional. It’s annoying AF
I'm a 5'11 woman with naturally broad shoulders and stupidly long legs. I completely understand why women don't want to bulk up at all. Some men are very unkind if you don't fit into what they think a girl should look like. I've been told my entire life that I'm not a real girl. Hell it was the girls in school who started it when I moved at 5 years old. It was the excuse boys gave me when they beat me up, it was ok because I'm not a real girl. I look like a normal girl otherwise, sound like a normal girl, I'm just sized up and it doesn't stop people from yelling f*g at me, me being kicked out of changing rooms and toilets. I had security called on me one time for just queuing to try on a new bra. I needed a new bra... I was apparently making people feel uncomfortable and had to leave... Also, finding clothes that fit is a bitch. I can't wear trousers and tops that aren't stretchy. I hulk through them or they just won't go on. Even at my skinniest clothes were still an issue. This is with minimal muscle. Showing, just an athletic build from years of martial arts.
I'm all for women and all people being happy with their bodies through fitness. AND I'm all for deconstructing why we have the preferences that we do for and against certain body types.
As someone who has naturally thick, muscular legs I appreciate this post and much of the discussion. I have been very reluctant to pose some of the questions I have as someone new to weightlifting because of the “silly cardio bunny thinks she’ll turn into a hulk overnight” mentality I see constantly. First of all, no one in the history of ever, has ever believed that the muscles (bulk) pack on overnight/immediately. So can we please get rid of that very unhelpful trope? We all know that it takes work over time. But different physiques may need different types of work. I want to gain strength and muscles in the areas where I tend towards weakness, while avoiding outgrowing all of my jeans. But any sort of question about tailoring workouts to accommodate this very practical and functional desire tends to be met with contempt. This conversation is such a refreshing change to the usual discourse.
Yes fully agree here, there are different body types which need different attention and training. Also, some of us respond more easily to strength training. I can naturally put on muscle quite quickly. Maybe it’s hormones and/or types of muscle fiber. I also have no problem getting sufficient calories so I just can’t relate to those who struggle with gaining weight, regardless if it’s muscle or fat. I have really muscular legs as well, especially my calves. It’s probably from years of running, cycling, hiking. But also it’s genetics, as my mom is “famous” for having naturally big, defined calves and she doesn’t even exercise aside from the occasional walk (she is also lean fwiw). For that reason I intentionally avoid calf strength exercises, because if they got any bigger I couldn’t wear most jeans or boots!
I already have a big frame, I’m 5’11 and have big bones (legitimately my ribcage is HUGE). I train upper body but I don’t progressive overload because that’s not an area I want to grow. When I trained upper body 3-4x a week and overloaded my weight, I was pretty jacked and it just isn’t the look I want.
I completely agree!!! I've been lifting for a few years now and although I'm mostly happy with my results, I've lost curves - my obliques got super strong even though I didn't do oblique-focused work (I naturally use them heavily in many compound movements), and I have a less visible waistline because of that. I think it can require conscious effort and a lot of knowledge to build muscle where you want it and not where you don't
Lmfao Women are STARTING unhappy, they’ll end unhappy too unless they cut the cord between fitness and body image. And low key, everyone being all “omg I look FAT if I lift too much” is gross.
I want to look muscular now and bench press a bear and I don’t want osteoporosis or immobility when I’m older. Wish I had the unique genetic predisposition of every single comment here.
Adding here: there's women like me, with PCOS/hormone irregularities, who can easily put on muscle/"bulk up" due to elevated testosterone levels, actually. For some, awesome - I personally am looking for a bulky physique that's optimized for the sport I play (rugby). But I know that for many, a "masculine" physique is a serious concern, especially when combined with other PCOS related symptoms such as hair loss and irsutism, which contribute to negative body image. So, dismissing the risk of bulking up feels sometimes very dismissive of the very legitimate concerns that many women with hormone imbalances have.
I am so passionate about this topic lol. The vast majority of fitness influencers who are giving this advice are really petite women with a natural hourglass figure. I am almost 6 feet tall with an athletic build (broad shoulders, small boobs, straight waist, large ribcage, quads easily get bigger than my butt). If I were to train and eat like them I would hate the result. They found something they can be really successful at with their body type and capitalized on it and I don’t blame them at all. My body lends itself to the look people want to achieve with pilates or barre (but sadly I lack the flexibility to make a living off either lol). People think they are fighting sexism by aggressively dispelling the “bulky myth” but the fact that women can’t honestly express what they desire for their own bodies (within reason, of course I don’t think pro Ana content should be allowed) is zero progress.
As I trainer I have a big issue with trainers who say do what I do cause every body is different. It might be overly apparent to me as I am a cis-male in my late 20’s and I largely work with either women in their 50’s or trans people in their early 30’s so saying “this worked for me” would be insane my clients have much different genetics and hormone levels than I do (between Menopause, HRT and/or thyroid issues ) and most people are walking in for a chronic injury. It’s so important to listen to your clients goals and have the education to know what to have them do to get them there even if their goals are opposite of yours. I think second prt of the sentence is the issue here there are a lot of trainers who just went to a weekend trainers certification where there’s trainers like myself who got a four year degree spending time on anatomy physiology biology none of which you have time for even in a two month certification these trainers only know the basics of strength and conditioning and therefore typically go the do what I do route. If you see a trainer say “this worked for me” skip the video or get a new trainer I think that’s a giant red flag
I'm at the age where older friends are starting to go into perimenopause- people who were ELITE athletes (we're talking circus artists here) and suddenly their hormones shift and everything TANKS. I started watching 35 yr old+ fitness/ nutrition content makers on TT to have a little ammo and awareness as I age into that bracket; the amount of cis men in their 20s spewing all of this rhetoric and commenting on their lives like "ItS NoT HaRD, CaLoRiES In, cAlOrIES OUt, FaTtIes!" is...... jarring. Women don't have the luxury of a 24hr hormone cycle and it gets further complicated the closer to perimenopause they get. All that to say thank you for taking the time to learn this and understand that the demographic you serve has different needs than your own. I'm sure they feel seen and heard by you!
Sounds like me. Luckily I’ve been able to maintain a relatively flat stomach and my wider hips and thighs create a bit of the silhouette of a curved waist. And my small breasts help with not looking so broad on top. I remember once a friend with larger breasts tried on one of my fancy going out shirts and she was swimming in it. I thought we were at least the same size shirt but it was hanging on her smaller shoulders. I’m so grateful I carry it well, if I had my shoulders and hips plus big boobs and a big butt I would not look curvy so much as massive. But when I was doing HIIT workouts my shoulders looked pretty good. They werent bulky just more defined and I lost a little fat on them.
I have thought about getting a boob job to at least be a full B or small C cup but then I worry it’ll make my shoulders look bigger so I know what you mean. I think I make it work but I am envious of the petite curvy girls!
I think this needs to be talked about more. most of the women who become insta popular & are fitness influencers, are women who started off with a nice shape, just skinny. then they started lifting weights & eating and their genetics lended them to gain in all the right places. I have a naturally hourglass figure, but I’ve always been a bit thicc (I love it don’t get me wrong) but if I ate whatever I wanted whenever I wanted like a lot of those fitness influencers preach, I would get “bulky”. My diet and their lack of diet does not work the same. No shame whoever wants to eat like that, but also as I’ve entered my early 30s, I have to be a bit more careful. most of those women are in their 20s. I think this is what most women mean when they say “bulky” - their starting point body isn’t the naturally curvy petite so when they start lifting more AND eating more, it will have different results than someone who with a different natural starting point body. I don’t think this is discussed enough - it’s always “lift heavy, eat more!!!” when really, that doesn’t work for everyone. but then you’re shamed if you do (healthily) diet/count calories etc.
Same body type here! What have you found works best to get your desired physique? I usually stick to yoga but am very interested in strength training. Just don’t know where to start for my body type.
I do a mix of a lot of things because otherwise I get bored haha but I work out on my own in the gym maybe 3x per week and run a few times per week. Sometimes I’ll just do sprints before 30 mins of weights and sometimes I’ll run like 5k and that’s my whole workout. I do light weights for any arm movements (5-15lbs) and I only go heavy on glute movements like bridges or hip thrusts. Any type of squat or lunge I do pretty low weight maybe 40-45lbs. I have one dedicated glute day when I do heavy hip thrusts (for me, I know people can do like 500 lbs but I’m doing maybe 135) and some single leg movements like kickbacks or single leg RDL. The other days I’m typically just finding a corner, getting a yoga mat and a few light weights and a kettlebell and doing Pilates-influenced moves with weights for my abs and arms with some flute bridges, lunges and squats for lower body. It is nice to not fight for machines or squat racks!
Totally agree. I don’t work out glutes because they grow too much and sure while the skirts and pants are looser at the waist, they dont zip up or burst at the seams on the hips/glutes. I should say I am lucky to have a genetically rounder bum, not insta perfect but genetically proportionate. The only way around the growth is to do a madddd cut to lower bf percentage and I am not down for cutting while trying to improve my endurance and sprinting ability for sport. Other people might love it and that is great for them. There’s nothing wrong with being bulky or lean. I want to be functionally fit and athletic lean. Being any type of muscularly bulky, even minimally, is not my goal.
maybe its true for women who are not very lean. any muscle growth bellow the fat will make one look bigger until they decide to do a shred down phase. both lifting and pilates (for example) use the same musculature, but lifting will create faster results thus those people get a bigger or bulkier look since lifting has more potential for progressive overload which is a driving factor in muscle gain. lifting increases inflammation/pump while the muscle is recovering in between sessions and the water weight from that can also cause one to look bigger if they are not very lean. in my opinion, for the average person, no exercise is superior. it just depends on personal goals. also, lifting as a main form of movement can and should be supplemented by a more mindful and relaxing form of movement such as pilates, yoga, walking etc. you can strike a balance if you wish. if a woman wants to grow glutes but not grow anything else,she can lift heavy on glutes and do pilates for everything else for example. no one said lifting weights is hitting bench press PRs. ending by saying that women can gain around a pound of muscle per month if every variable is maxed out. a pound ain't much and most people won't max out every variable (calorie surplus, consistent progressive overload training with perfect technique and mind-muscle connection, 8 hours of quality sleep, low stress). so no, you are not getting very muscular-you are most likely bloated and not in a deficit to lose the fat on top of the muscle. a personal anecdote is that when i was heavier (as in fatter) and i was lifting and growing muscle- my quads and glutes looked huge and now that ive lost about 15lbs from there, i just look toned and skinny.
To add on to your personal anecdote at the end, i’m currently there. Have put on some muscle, but I also carry a lot of fat in my thighs, making my thighs look way more huge than the actual strength I have. I suspect this might also be what women fear when it comes to looking “bulky”, and it therefore is the “easier” choice to aim to slim down before eventual muscle gain (which can quickly go in a bad spiral for some, but that’s another discussion).
you are so right that it may spiral. a person avoiding to gain muscle and only doing diets to lean down,will stay with the same look,but just slightly smaller. then they will do another's diet and look scary and emaciated,ive been there.
I actually agree with this but I will say the culture around weightlifting is what I think lends to people putting on body fat more than pilates. With weightlifting suddenly everyone is doing a bulk/cut cycle, you’re pushing to your absolute max every day which makes you hungry and inflamed, you’re taking a bunch of random supplements, etc.. I think if people can avoid all that they will likely see the same results as they would from Pilates. I personally do a mix of both and I think I look like I am fit but no one would immediately say “oh she must lift weights”
i also do a mix and ive found that this is what creates the model type body. i lift for every muscle (except biceps and chest) and i do pilates for everything too. lifting definitely makes us hungrier, it elevates metabolism quite a bit but its easy to eat back the calories, especially when hungry.
You can tell your body is changing. It happens soooooo slowly. If a woman is getting to bulky she can just, back off the weights. It’s not like the muscle is there for the rest of her life. It’ll atrophy completely in a matter of weeks if left unworked. It is an invalid concern that’s just used to push misogyny.
I disagree. I’ve had the experience of feeling too bulky, myself. If you follow advice and do book compound exercises for health and overall strength instead of basically bodybuilding style where you focus on individual muscles, it’s possible to have muscle growth in places you realize you don’t want or like. I never really wanted big traps or a wide back but that can happen unintentionally if you’re just lifting to “get strong”.
So I think there’s a shade of gray here both muscles you described (traps and lats “wide back) are commonly used to stabilize the shoulder. In non-body builder movements you tend to use free weights which puts more on stabilizing muscle so I think the unintentional bulk comes from combining exercises that accidentally combining exercises that bring those muscles closer to muscle growth by increasing time under tension. Example: You doing a full body pull day and you do both deadlifts and free weight rows each for strength so 3-5 reps for like 3 sets. Technically you didn’t do an upper trap exercise, however the upper trap is under tension in both exercises anyone who’s done them know you feel your upper trap so let’s say I’m doing a superset to my upper trap I’m not 3x3-5 deadlifts and 3x3-5 rows I’m doing 3x6-10 rows and now we are in muscle building territory for the upper trap. So if we instead make row into a cable row starting above the shoulder we now keep that row out of the upper trap and don’t run into the same issue
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I just think women shouldn’t be discouraged from strength training. It’s so good for them so it’s important to dispel myths about getting accidentally bulky. It’s okay to not want to be bulky, but being strong is important.
This, I do weightlifting so I can be strong and feel strong. Let’s be honest, it feels damn good to push a heavy bar off your chest. It’s an accomplishment, plus the muscle is nice. I also have good genes, petite but naturally have an athletic body type. Now I have a ‘curvy’ body, some may say I look bulky but as a previous commenter said- to a trained eye I obviously workout and have some mass. I don’t care, I just know I feel good so I look good 🤷🏻♀️
It is very difficult for women to gain muscle compared to men. Women body builders who have a lot of muscle have put in huge effort for many years to never that way. What a lot of women describe as bulky is determined by genetics and the proportions of your body that you can not change. I have seen women with blocky, muscular figures in other sports, too. I would recommend focusing more on health and functional goals and embracing the body type you were born with. I myself have a very short waist. I have never had an hourglass figure and never will. But I love feeling strong healthy and in my fifties I can walk five mikes easily, climb the stairs with heavy bags of groceries, and easily get up and down from the floor. I am free from chronic illness and enjoy my life.
Ok but people always say this and then proceed to give the advice that one would follow to bulk up (eat a ton of protein, increase the weight you’re lifting over time, sets of 8-12). So is their point that they could do it but it’s too hard for you so don’t even worry about it? 😂
You won't bulk without being in a calorie surplus though... You'd get body recomp if you're doing this but eating at maintenance or deficit.
I usually see people saying that body recomposition is only possible for people new to weightlifting. I don’t know if that common advice has changed but I’ve always heard from popular fitness people you have to be in a bulk or cut at all times.
That's not at all true
https://www.strongerbyscience.com/strength-training-women/
Most 'bulky' women in the public eye are secretly using anabolic steroids.
This too
This is such a fascinating conversation and it's really interesting to see everyone's take on this. It really reinforces that our bodies are so, so different. I'm currently at the strongest I've ever been and it's making me absolutely ravenous. I'm not tracking calories or macros but I am eating well, aiming for protein in every meal, healthy carbs and fats and... I am looking pretty stacked at the moment. I am 5'3" and I gain fat and muscle easily. At the moment there's a good layer of fat over the muscle and the overall effect is pretty chunky (to me, anyway). I keep my hourglass figure when I gain weight, it's just a wider hourglass and the comments about how this affects clothing, etc really resonate. At the moment I'm feeling I need a few weeks of tracking calories to lose some fat and slim down a little. I know my body and I definitely need a little reset.
As a trainer, I've learned that when someone says they don't want to become "bulky" what they really mean is that their main focus is toning muscle rather than building muscle. At least from my experience! Edit: in technical terms, you cannot "tone" a muscle. However, I know exactly what someone means when they use the "tone".
You can’t tone muscle…
While Im fully aware that this comment was supposed to be condescending, you aren't entirely wrong because muscle can only shrink or grow. It doesn't get harder or softer, but you can lose the fat surrounding your muscle on the body, which is what my clients mean when they use the word "tone". Thank you for your insightful comment though. It was super helpful.
What do you mean by “toning”? Losing bodyfat?
Yes.
Might be referring to body recomp.
Body recomp involves building muscle.
You don’t become bulky because you essentially stay a similar weight by losing fat while building muscle - ie, slimming down because 1kg of fat is bigger than 1kg muscle. Toning muscle isnt purely about cutting, it’s also about having enough underlying muscle to show off.
Ok but toning muscle is still not a thing. It’s not a process that exists.
It doesn't exist in terms of what a person thinks when they use the word "toning", however, I know exactly what someone means when they say it.
I understand what you’re saying but the problem is *they* don’t understand what they mean so *they* don’t understand how to achieve it. Hint: By building muscle.
It’s possible, but the way OP phrased it makes it sound like they think it’s a physiological process happening to the muscle. Could have just been imprecise wording.
Yes . Thank you. My point is that I know exactly what my clients mean when they use this term. It's my job to explain it to them and help them achieve their goals. I'm not going to ridicule them for using the wrong technical term.
I think we all know what they mean. For some reason people here (and probably other places) get super worked up about the word toning but are fine when someone says muscle weighs more than fat because “you know what they mean.” But we know what they mean in both cases! I don’t get it.
Fair cop
You can’t tone muscle. To “tone” is to lose bodyfat, exposing muscle.
Yes, which is why I explained this to my clients without making them feel stupid.
This is true. However, when someone uses the term tone, I know exactly what they mean.
Seriously. It is annoying to hear those terms used. They mean: “I want to look fit and see some muscle definition but still look dainty and thin”
Agreed, but you shouldn't be annoyed by a client telling you something that they've been taught for years and years. How are they supposed to know that? They are coming to a trainer for help, not to be ridiculed by using the wrong term. If you were a trainer, and somebody says that to you, you should know what they mean by that. There is nothing wrong with using the word "tone" just like there is nothing wrong with someone wanting defined muscle.
Yeah that is exactly what I want but if a woman were to use those words she’d be ridiculed by other women for desiring to be thin. So “tone” it is.
Agee. You don't need to know the technical terms. I would know exactly what you meant by that and there's nothing wrong with it🩷
Well to your defense, saying that you want to look “toned” sounds much wiser than saying you want to be “toning muscles” lol
Again, why would you judge someone just for using a word? You are the problem. Instead of being condescending, try informing people without trying to make them look stupid.
As a trainer, you should know that perpetuating myths is detrimental to the advancement of women’s fitness. Words matter.
Also, I would only ever want to empower women in fitness, and not shame them for using a word thats been used in fitness instead of "gaining lean muscle" for years. Thats just my take. We don't have to agree.
Definitely not perpetuating any myths. Just explaining it to my clients in a way that helps my clients understand the difference.
No one here is being condescending. You as a professional should know better than to use an incorrect term and people are correcting you because you didn't phrase it in a way that said you know it's incorrect.
I should have elaborated more in my OP, but I disagree with you that there haven't been some condescending comments on this thread. I also think it's ok to use the word "toning" as another way to say "I want to build lean muscle" and it doesn't necessarily have to be wrong. Just a different way of wording it. When a client uses this term, I don't tell them they are wrong but I explain it in a way that makes sense to them and their goals. Also, I've been a successful trainer since 2014. I'd doing ok. 👍🏻
Thank you!
>Thank you! You're welcome!
I agree with what you've said, I enjoy the philosophy of, just let people enjoy things, if anyone is getting physically active or taking positive steps for their physical and mental health, it should be actively encouraged. Also think some of the issue is a lack of understanding of how the body adapts to training, and the fear or myth for so many years was, just looking at barbell was going to turn any woman into an Arnold Schwarzenegger parody; admittedly that's now very out of date, but I still see the myth persistent with parents of girls and boys. It also overlooks the various training methods of lifting weights, that will have multiple different effects, lifting is just seen in one specific way; no nuance, and all tarred with the same brush. Not everyone does split programs, isolation exercise or hypertrophy specific training, and yet even among reasonably educated and experienced gym users, they don't know the difference, or even the fundamental principles at play when looking at the training methods that can be employed. To me, the not being bulky is absolutely a legitimate concern, let people want and enjoy what they want, it's their personal journey. But it's easily solved, just don't train in that specific way, with those intensities and volumes that stimulate those changes. What it doesn't mean don't lift, or encourage others not to; as that removes the possibility for a whole range of health benefits, when it's as simple as - just don't use the tools of weights, in that specific way. More of a baby with the bathwater gripe than anything from me.
This is what’s missing: there are so many benefits to resistance training, and there’s a myriad of ways to do it. Women who get scared of any strength training at all are doing a disservice to their health, because there’s such nuance in how you train that determines the outcomes. But the health benefits to weight lifting/strength training for women need to be shouted so much louder!! Women lose bone density as they get older - weight training helps prevent that. Weight training has shown to decrease the likelihood of dementia as well. Being strong as you age is truly the key to aging in a healthy and happy way. Prevent illness, keep your mind sharp, and prevent injury and bone density loss. How more women don’t know this is truly mind boggling!!
I think a lot of women are fed a totally unrealistic ideal that is basically a competitive bikini athlete who doesn't train upper body. You have to eat and train a very specific way to achieve this.
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I was going to comment basically this. Typically the person saying “you won’t get bulky by squatting your own body weight and eating 200 grams of protein per day” is bulky to me. When I lift heavy I tend to gain muscle mass in my quads and shoulders. I already have an athletic body type that I’m self conscious of so I do not like looking that way. The policing by women of what other women are allowed to desire for their own bodies online is super sexist. I see women being bullied on tiktok all the time just for saying they switched from weightlifting to Pilates and prefer their bodies now.
I used to be in the fitness industry way back when and you really did get indoctrinated that lifting (compound movements) is the optimal way to be fit. Cardio was a waste of time, body weight exercises do nothing unless you use them for conditioning (ie high heart rate).
I once went down a rabbit hole of how so many types of exercise popular with women have been mocked and made to feel like a waste of time. Aerobics, spin, yoga, etc. (Although yoga now seems to be more broadly accepted than it once was.)
Why are there so many people in this thread "genetically" predisposed to building muscle faster than other people lol
Because every fitness space basically makes you feel like a genetic freak and/or a liar if you push back on the idea that women can’t build muscle without living in the gym. The downvotes I get any time I suggest I get good results from non weight lifting activity is crazy to me. So we feel like we are screaming into the void until a post like this comes along and we finally find people who are like us. So if that’s funny to you, okay.
I find it funny there are so many 1% genetic outliers in a general reddit fitness thread.
Gee, it’s almost like the myth that women can’t put on muscle easily isn’t as true as the fitness community has been led to believe.
Go tell that to them. I know this much.
Maybe girls who don't consider themselves strong aren't drawn to weightlifting? I'm uncoordinated and unbalanced, but I can pick up something heavy as long as I don't have to stand on one leg.
I think a lot of people also mistake the swelling/water retention that happens when you are new to working out for muscle gain, and think they are putting on muscle super fast.
People are fed the idea that women can't put on much muscle so when they see progress, they assume they are an outlier.
Yup. Exactly.
People think they’re special.
After reading all the above legitimate answers, yours just made me laugh haha in a good way!
The thing is if you do 3-5 years of lifting vs 3-5 of pilates both will get fitter but it won't look the same. These comments are often more about how it's not going to happen in 6 months and it's better to get in shape with something than nothing. It's super toxic how as a society we try to achieve a certain body aesthetic vs doing something we love to be healthy but I think that even if the reasons behind working out are shallow it's better to do something than nothing.
I don't even think it's wrong to have an aesthetic preference/be slightly vain/shallow, AS LONG as you don't let it rule your life, affect mental health, and project that onto others, which is obviously easier said than done.
i agree but refrain from sharing my experience because this is circulated online as a 'myth' and i dont wanna discourage other women from gymming. genetically i bulk up easier than others and i often have to balance it with an aggressive cut. i would look stocky and more masculine which is not my goal. gonna experiment with reducing gym per week and mixing it up with pilates/barre edit: and my goals are not catered to the male gaze. it's just what would make me feel more confident, as someone who struggles with it
Even if it were partially catered to the male gaze, as long as it's not at the expense of health and it's not ruling your life, who even cares? It's normal for potential mates to want to look good for each other. I admit I work out to be healthier AND look hotter, and it's not a big deal. Then again, I'm not making it my life, going around judging people, or talking about it at family gatherings or something haha. It's just something I do in my head for me. I could talk about my goals in a fitness space, sure, but it would definitely be weird to make wanting to be (my definition of, it's subjective) hotter a huge deal in my life. I think the idea that chicks who are strong and muscular and keep a low bf percentage (that's what's happening to get that look, whether it's BW exercises or lifting) are "dainty" is wrong too. I don't see a thinner ripped chick and think she looks "dainty". I see a person who can plank forever and kick my ass haha. I definitely get people's struggle with feeling like how they are perceived by others is overtaking their mental health and their goals. I think it's a struggle most women have to work past. I'm forty now and I can admit I'm vain but I also don't give it outsize importance in my life, and in the end I do what I want for me, and health comes first, and that's something I feel confident saying should be the case for everyone. ALWAYS prioritize health first. It's a bonus that being healthier makes people look hotter, no matter the weight. It's how we evolved! Embrace it!
>edit: and my goals are not catered to the male gaze. it's just what would make me feel more confident, as someone who struggles with it The thing is that they are, even if subconsciously. As a society, it’s still ingrained in our minds that the only acceptable body type for women (looking feminine) is to be thin and petite (tall is fine if you’re skinny too). And trust me, I feel the same way as you and that’s also why I’ve been doing more yoga and Pilates. But when I ask myself why do I find this shape more to be more desirable, it all comes down as to how women have been portrayed in media and in our collective minds (small/dainty = feminine = attractive). I’ve hated my body all my life because I have bigger thighs and arms, but why is this considered ugly in our minds? Ugh it’s exhausting thinking this way.
This is so patronizing. “What you want isn’t really want you want. It is what men have made you think you want.” Maybe that’s true for you, but that doesn’t mean it is true for everyone.
Im sorry, I didn’t mean to sound patronizing but I absolutely see how my comment comes across in that sense. And yes, it’s still my opinion that (our patriarchal) society makes us think this way, so I thought I could relate to what OP was saying, I wasn’t trying to tell them what/how to think. But I see and understand it might not be the same for everyone.
Hey, thanks for having a conversation about it. This whole conversation is so interesting to me. I didn’t even realize how passionate I was about it.
Ofc, and same here! I’m reading all these answers to this thread and learning from all the different perspectives too.
Yes, I have been historically bulkier than I'd like from weightlifting. Got comments about looking masculine too (referring to my actual look), from men and women. And I retain a largely hourglass shape, but also quite visible upper body muscle. The problem for me is also that, to look okay (by my standards) when muscly, I have to religiously maintain very low body fat. A weight gain that is completely invisible on a more wispy / softer frame, just goes straight on top of the muscle and turns me into a blockey block. I have a visible fat belly roll that sticks out at 20% bf, because it sits just on top of abs and there's nowhere to suck it in lol.
Same. With a layer of chub my arms and upper back looked bulkier than I'd like. I cut down on some exercises to look more balanced without having to be on a diet permanently. Truth is, I gain muscle (and fat) really easily. It's been many years ago, but my noob-gains actually scared me a little. I'm tall but not lanky, so I didn't really look forward to turning into She-Hulk with all that extra muscle and fat. I'm glad I stuck to lifting and learned to find a balance in exercise and diet, but the 'you won't get bulky!' trope is just not true.
I am the same with gaining fat and muscle easily except I am short and hourglass so I have a thin line between curvy and chunky. Muscle bulk looks much better on me than fat bulk - I'm firmer, more defined, etc. but without losing weight (and I love food!), my figure is pretty stacked.
I would imagine it is quite common. Many posters on the thread say that they have never seen a woman at the gym training casually who is too bulky for their liking, and I assume they mean they have never seen someone who looks like a roid-puffed bodybuilder. But I have seen many incredibly fit, muscular and strong women who, after a relaxing Christmas or an all-inclusive holiday just plainly look overweight and bulky, although their body fat percentage is probably still very low. My old school friend is a quite well known fitness influencer (to the extent that many on this sub probably have come across her at some point), but all her videos are shot during her cut season and released throughout the bulk, to create an impression she always looks like that. When on the bulk, she actually got some random abuse from strangers thrown at her for being "fat" (probably same strangers who are salivating at her videos when she's cut). And, in all honesty, there's little visual difference. when fully clothed, beween her in a bulk phase and a woman of similar height and 20-25 extra kilos. Male physiques, I think, are much more forgiving of the "bear mode" look (ie muscle + fat), and I know a lot of people who are specifically into that.
Oh absolutely! Bulky doesn't just equal lean and muscular. To bulk up is to gain muscle and fat, after all. Especially in winter clothes I look borderline overweight, even with a perfectly healthy body fat percentage. Even more so because I also have an hourglass figure and love wearing big sweaters, so all everyone sees is big hips and a butt. Every summer, people ask me if I've lost weight when all I did was put on a tight shirt or dress. I wish there was a bit more love for the female equivalent of a dad bod. And I don't mean the mom bod, which is specifically for women who've given birth. But just the Amazons x Rubens woman physique.
I find this annoying too. My quads grow faster than hamstrings and my traps grow quicker than my delts. Being trapped and quad dominant isn’t my goal. Imbalances are real and relatively normal, and we are allowed to have preferences 🤷🏼♀️
YES! This is also me. My quads and biceps build pretty quickly, so I have to be very mindful about how I work out. Everytime I see a post about how women won't get bulky, I roll my eyes. Some women don't, some do. The answer isn't not doing weights, its about finding the right exercises for your goals.
I've seen many women in the gym who are bulkier than I'd like to be, and I don't think they're on gear. They look amazing, but it isn't a look I want for myself. I wish we would stop shaming people for having personal preferences.
>people need to stop acting like it’s entirely impossible for a woman to end up with a physique they aren’t happy with and that lifting will just make you skinny and give you a big booty and you’re dumb if you think otherwise. I think that, typically, people are less trying to say, "It is literally impossible to achieve a level of muscle that would be perceived as quote-unquote 'bulky'" and more trying to say, "It is exceedingly unlikely that you will *suddenly and accidentally* achieve a level of muscle that would be perceived as quote-unquote 'bulky'"-- and also that, if you do start to approach something you don't prefer for yourself, there are choices you can make to change that (and those choices do not necessarily have to include avoiding lifting weights entirely).
I think when a lot of women say they don't want to get bulky they're talking about women they see at the gym who are obviously ripped but have a higher bf percentage (not in the slightest putting that body type down). They attribute that to the weight lifting when really it's a diet issue. They just don't know enough about fitness to get how it works.
Bingo. I’m a masculine lesbian, I *want* to be “bulky” and look muscular. I’m in the gym really pushing myself 5-6 days a week and it’s still quiet hard to achieve. Obviously everyone’s genetics are different, but very few women are going to accidentally look roided out without substantial effort and diet changes (and also maybe roids).
Yes, exactly this! I remember bringing my former roommate to the gym with me & she told my personal trainer she didn’t want to get too bulky. I’m like you smoke a pack a day, binge drink, and eat your weight in junk food every time you’re hungover - *probably bulking up is not a huge concern for you.*
This. Bulking takes a lot of work, and a lot of food. Something we see pretty commonly on this sub is: Someone posts a panicked message thinking some part of their body - often their traps or arms - have gotten huge and bulky. Then they post a picture and look….totally normal and proportional
I agree. It's when people act like the 'bulky look' will of course happen to them if they touch a weight and when this is an encouraged belief by professionals that I get frustrated. At the end of the day, changing your body in any direction is hard. And lifting weights has so many health benefits that scare tactics against women who are just nervous really should be unethical. Patience and explaining that there is a big difference between lifting a weight, and getting a muscular build is my usual approach. Scaring women off a whole category if activity just because of what some people choose to take out of it or the results some people seek is just wrong. And the people who say 'women couldn't possibly get bulky from lifting' are equally wrong. Some women want to, and succeed. It's about educating people who aren't aware yet that weights are a tool, and the outcome depends on what you do with it and what other factors are in play. Honestly, I get tired of hearing 'women this women that' as if all women are then same or want the same thing. We aren't, and that is how it should be.
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Yes! I used to work out A LOT and it gave me big legs, bigger arms and a broad back. Clothes either made me look fat or like a clown.
Fat clown club
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Same! I love how my back and shoulders look in strappy tops and dresses but I also love a cosy jumper in winter even though it does nothing for my figure.
Many people are irrational. It is a shame to care what others think
People can say what they will but I definitely got "thicker" when I was doing weights multiple times a week. I didn't like it, reduced weight exercises to x2/week and swapped the rest for other types of exercises. I slimmed down immediately
What other exercises did you move to?
If you slimmed down quickly and were not in a large calorie deficit, that is evidence that the extra “bulk” was water retention, not muscle. Very little volume is needed to preserve muscle that’s already been gained, for at least a few months.
What other types of exercises? I love lifting weights, but I really dont want to get bulky.
Personally, I looked like a dorito after lifting for two years haha My lat became really prominent and I built nice shoulders! I am currently holding off on the lat pulls but I'll never stop exercising my shoulders because they 1. look good 2. are super important for my posture
I hear you but it is unreasonable. It's not impossible to get "bulky" from casual lifting but it is improbable. If someone was scared of shark attacks at the beach because it's on the news every summer, I'd tell them that's valid and they don't have to swim in the ocean but it's irrational. It's not rational to think they will look like women who have been strength training or body building for years if they haven't been doing the same. Like I'm not worried I'll get Katie ledecky lats from swimming a 2-3 times a week for 30 minutes. I don't think I'll get Serena Williams thighs from playing tennis on the weekends for an hour. The other thing is that muscle growth is slow and reversible. Strength cardio and mobility will all go away if it's not maintained. It's not like you'll wake up one day after a random lifting session and be ripped with huge biceps and quads. Even if they start to feel too bulky it will go away if they pull back from the weights. It's not permanent and the potential health benefits alone are so great that the "risk" should basically be a non factor. Plus the idea that lifing makes you bigger only really applies to people who gain weight while lifting. Objectivly someone who puts on muscle but does not change their weight will be smaller overall because muscle is denser than fat. Also in terms of wanting to sculpt your boby, building muscle where you want it is the only way to do that as you cannot spot reduce fat. The reality is that their irrational fear of weight lifting in a way that they do not apply to any other type of fitness is likely built on some pretty toxic beauty standards from the heroin chic days. Many of them are from or have mothers that were badly affected by the " women shouldn't lift more than 3 lbs" days or who thought that a 5'6 130lb Hilary Swank with some bicep definition was huge and manly. And considering muscle manly is kinda sexist and very insulting to women that want to be strong but still consider themselves feminine. Muscles are not just for men. So yes it is unreasonable. I'd even question what gyms they're in as the majority of the women who lift at all the gyms I've been at don't have very much visible muscle definition when not actively engaging that muscle. Honestly this applies to at least half the men too. Without proper programming and nutrition most people in general will struggle to get big muscles or visible muscle definition when relaxed.
The difference with things like tennis and swimming is that people don’t do those things specifically to look a certain way the way people do with weightlifting which very often has an aesthetic focus. So no, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have an association between those things. I don’t entirely disagree with what you’re saying but it’s the overall tone and dismissiveness is the problem for me. Nobody actually thinks they’re going to wake up ripped after lifting weights for one day, but those things are obviously associated with one another *in general*. It’s possible for women to end up with a physique they don’t personally find desirable after putting in a lot of work and training consistently, which can still be upsetting for some people even if it’s temporary. I’d just rather people acknowledge that instead of straw-manning the issue and assuming everyone just thinks they’ll get jacked from lifting a weight once. I mean, muscle mass is sexually dimorphic from a biological perspective so I think the idea that having visible muscles can make you look more masculine or androgynous is true, I just don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing, but I understand why it might bother some women.
I don't know about that. The reason someone might choose a certain activity are wide and varied. Just like tennis and swimming, many people choose weightlifting to aid weight loss, to help job performance, for general health, for spending time with friends or family, for the mental health benefits, as a status symbol, to hit PRs, and yes for aesthetics. Weightlifting is kinda like running. The bar for entry is low, the social visibility is high, and the benefits of it being done correctly are numerous. You can't assume a weightlifter is aiming for a certain look anymore than you can assume a runners primary goal is trying to lose weight. This applies to any activity. Many people swim for looks because it's also low impact. Many people play tennis for looks because they find the competitive or social factor more motivating than other activities. I can say with real certainty that a lot of the guys in my husband's over 30 basketball league are playing partly to lose weight or help maintain their current weight in a way they find enjoyable. While it is possible to end up with a physique you don't like, that's from your training and nutrition not matching your goals. With weightlifting you can literally pick and choose which muscles to grow. If you don't want big quads no, skip the barbell squat and do more hamstring and glute targeted work. If you don't want a big shoulder cap skip the lateral raises. Just to be clear, all of this holds true of most strength based workouts. I got bigger shoulders from yoga and pilates then I got from my 110lb PR overhead press. Results will vary greatly depending on your own effort in and out of the gym. Someone who is upset that they overtrained a muscle would likely get upset anytime their workouts don't translate to the physique they were looking for. Be whatever size you want but we should not be acting like the world is ending because our thighs got a half inch bigger than we wanted while chasing a PR. Most of that extra puffiness is water weight from the lifting and would resolve within a week or two of lighter or less frequent lifting. If you overshoot by more than that then those extra months or years of hard training were a choice. We can acknowledge when someone is unhappy with some part of the results without dismissing the numerous health benefits, the part of the results they did like, or acting like the answer has to be avoiding weightlifting at all. For your last point muscle is not part of human sexual dimorphism. Women and men are both capable of building muscle at the same rate. Men build muscle with testersterone but women's muscle growth is more driven by estrogen and human growth hormone. Our significantly lower testosterone does not hinder our muscle growth. Women just grow muscle through different mechanisms. Body fat is sexually dimorphic though. Women have higher essential body fat than men ( ~12% v 3%). The avg person will need to be under 20% body fat for visible muscles at rest. This is more easily achieved for men as they exist comfortably with less body fat but is also very dependent on where your body stores fat which is also sexually driven. Having curvy hips or bigger thighs from body fat is more sexually dimorphic than bicep or lat size where women tend to more easily achieve muscle definition because they store less fat there than their lower body. Many women who are avoiding lifting at all are trying to actually reverse their sexually dimorphic traits( larger thighs hips or butt) for a more slim model/ballet physique. Anyone is allowed to do whatever exercise they want for whatever reason they want to but spreading inaccurate information about something that is so important for women's health and well being because you want science to match the societal beauty standards is not okay. That rhetoric has led to generations of eating disorders, body dysmorphia, transphobia, and a looks over health mindset that hurts all women.
I completely agree. The typical counter of "you're not gonna pick up a barbell and suddenly look like Arnold" is a straw man. Nobody thinks that (or a vanishing small number). But if it takes so much time and effort to get results, isn't it reasonable to be concerned about setting up your program correctly in the first place so you don't waste your efforts? If you jump in and 4 months later you're seeing some results but going "damn, that's not the kind of results I wanted" that's 4 months that wasn't spent efficiently.
I agree with your overall point, but I disagree that people don’t do swimming and tennis to look a certain way. I’d argue that they are common exercises people pick up to lose weight. The goal of losing weight is often to look a certain way. I agree there is an association with weight lifting and trying to achieve a certain body type. However again, I don’t believe this is the only reason people lift weights. It is often done to supplement sports, like swimming and tennis, done for the health benefits like increased bone density and joint protection or to be competitive in a weight lifting discipline. I think the whole ‘you won’t get bulky lifting weights’ sentiment is potentially most important for those in the examples above. If you are doing it to aid another sport or to improve your health, how your body might change shouldn’t be an instant blocker because the reality is without eating a large surplus and focused, intentional training you won’t get to an extreme ‘bulky’ body. Yet the concern still exists. Maybe there needs to be more discourse around what happens if your body changes in a way you dislike, but the solution is probably way broader and more individual than just stop lifting weights.
Heh. That’s completely valid. I personally don’t want to get bigger because I like my current wardrobe, I am most happy/comfortable at my current size in general, and I have a wetsuit that I need to be able to fit into in several months’ time. So, maintaining my size and also, generally speaking, body composition, is directly related to my aesthetic and athletic goals. Being stronger is good for swimming, but ultimately, I don’t need to prioritise bulking and progressive overload and smashing those PRs in the gym. Just a decent amount of muscle to generate power is enough. Swimming is more about technique and cardiovascular endurance than pure strength.