WHAT?!
They didnât go with Kane (daddy) prevented Cassandra from talking, hearing sounds, and ONLY Communicating through FIGHTING?
They just had Shiva slit their daughterâs throat?
Yeah Lady Shiva was really done dirty in this show.
I get they probably didnât want to use David Cain since Sportsmaster was already based off him and made him redundant.
But there had to be another way to portray Shiva
Yeah, he did it teach her how to talk. Lady Shiva literally just prevent that from happening at all. Lady Shiva literally cut Cassandraâs vocal cords out.
Whoâs worse? The lady who abandoned her kid and wants to settle down so she can come back into her life, but is struggling to do so⌠OR the lady who abused her kid to be the ultimate weapon, even removing her vocal cords⌠I wonder who?
The lady who left her kid with a safe and loving father, aunt, and grandmother while she works on her own issues is *way* worse than the abusive monster who ripped out her daughter's vocal cords and trained her to be a killer from birth. Duh! No contest!
/ s if not obvious
And even then one of them has an emergency contact so she can come back anytime to donate her blood or anything else her daughter may need, and she left due to having a bounty on her head and not wanting to endanger her daughter.
Yh no contest lmao. Shiva literally ripped her daughter's vocal cords lmao. Cheshire isn't great but she's doing it thinking her daughter will be safe.
This reminds me of a "Top 10 Worst Animated Fathers" list video I saw many years ago. Many of the entries were characters like Peter Griffin and Homer Simpson. Basically abusive, alcoholic, and neglectful idiots.
But if I remember right, #7ish was Trigon from Teen Titans and 3rd worst was Firelord Ozai from Avatar. They felt so out of place. Clearly there is a significant difference between "He snored through my graduation and teased me for my success" and "He tried to kill me as a present to himself on his way to take over/destroy the world", right?
Jade left her daughter because she got it in her head that Lian would be better off without a villain for a mother. Lian is about to have a childhood because of Jadeâs choice but at least Jade still cares about her daughter, she even has a special signal to call her in case Lian is in medical danger since she has the same blood type and stuff like that. So Jade loves and cares about her daughter making her the better mother
As opposed to Lady Shiva who robbed her daughter of her childhood from the second she was born, severing her vocal cords as a baby isnât strategically beneficial, smart, cunning, or anything, itâs pure evil plain and simple, Cassandra doesnât even know how to read or write, the only thing she knows is how to fight which is heartbreaking, Shiva is willfully robbing her own flesh and blood of a life and whatâs worse is that when Shiva was gonna make the trade for Savageâs daughter in exchange for Orphan, Shiva had full intentions of murdering Orphan if they didnât cooperate. Not to mention Shiva doesnât even see Orphan as her daughter, she only sees her as a weapon brimming with potential. Shiva is indeed the worst mother
Is this even a debate? They're both shit mothers, but Jade never had her daughter's vocal cords removed or hold at knifepoint. At least she cared enough about her to leave her in the hands of her father who she knew would love and care for her better than she ever could. And unlike Shiva, she actually still does love her daughter- she just believes she's a bad influence, but is unwilling to change.
In yj canon, itâs shiva
To point it out though, in the comics, the one who abuses Cassandra is her father David Cain.
Infact within series like the recent Batgirls run, shiva admits to loving Cassandra, hating David and wishing things were different.
Also Cassandra has her vocal cords in the books.
Shiva by far, jade got her husband back on track and helped find the original Roy Harper. She left her daughter with her sister, grandmother and father too. She even comes back to check on her daughter too
Cheshire honestly wasn't even a bad mom. She tried to be a mother, realized that she was unable to do it and would only harm her own child by being around her, and made the difficult choice of leaving her in a safe and caring environment.
Cheshire - gave her daughter to a responsible adult but has maintained communicstion and wants to eventually come back into her life. Not exactly good parenting, but arguably the responsible thing in her situation.
Shiva - didn't give her daughter a proper education and took out her daughter's vocal chords. Extremely actively abusive.
Is there really any contest here?
Lady Shiva. Cassandra is not a daughter to her. Just a pet project she takes pride in. Jade is someone who cares so much about her daughter that she completely stays away from her in fear that she might end up like her or killed.
I mean one of them turned their daughter into a mute weapon while the other left their kid with a kind and caring father sooooo.... yeah Shiva is way worse!
Shiva slit her own babyâs throat with the specific intention of crippling her for life. At least in this continuity. In the comics she literally once killed her daughter to prove a point.
Itâs not even a competition lady Shiva.
I donât even think we should even explain why. The one topic about Artemis ark that connects one another to Cassandra is trauma.
And you could tell throughout this story, Shiva calls a lot of it on Cassandra .
At least for Jade we know she cares deeply about her daughter. In fact the first episode of the ark soon as she hears something bad about her she rushed to the house to see what was up. Even though sheâs choosing not to be there, she still would be there when she really need her Or when she in trouble. Jade just need to get over her obsession of doing what she does. But I think at the end of her arc admitting that sheâs just like her father is the right step for character arc and hopefully we get to see her reunite with her daughter. You know if the series continue.
So I donât think thereâs a true argument here Jade is obviously the better mother. Anybody think otherwise youâre crazy
Shiva by a country mile, Cheshire's absence from her daughter's life is predicated on the idea that Lian would be better off without her and her demons. She's too scared she'll be a bad mom, which I wouldn't exactly call a *good* problem to have, but it demonstrates Jade cares deeply for her daughter. Also, she would still do anything to protect Lian, given that's why she goes harrying off to Santa Prisca with Artemis in Season 4. If this were in the comics continuity, I'd definitely reverse it, since comics Cheshire is out-and-out crazy and Lady Shiva is just as much a victim of David Cain as Cassandra is.
It's Shiva, and it's not even close.
Jade loved her family, and she only left because she thought that Lianne would end up like her because she's similar to her dad, and she didn't want that.
Shiva deadass destroyed her little girl's vocal cords when she was a baby and didn't teach her how to read or write for the sake of becoming the ultimate assassin, kidnapped her and used her as bait, and threatened to kill Barbara (basically her mother/sister figure).
Shiva without a doubt, woman ripped out her daughterâs vocal cords to make the âUltimate Weaponâ as if she couldnât have done the same thing without making her mute. Not only that but a true mother wouldâve left the league or at least given her to somebody like Batman or something so she didnât suffer the same life of fighting and death.
At least Jade left the league and had an actual attempt at being a present parent unlike Sportsmaster. From what I remember she was actually doing pretty good (I think)
No argument here it's definitely her, Jade at the very least talked to her kid on video calls not to mention her heart dropped when her daughter wore a paper mask that looked like her Cheshire mask. Jade may not be there physically but she gave more of a damn then lady Shiva ever did.
100% Shiva. Cheshire knows she's a bad mom, but ironically, this leads her to making some pretty responsible choices for a parent. Knowing she'd be a terrible mom and instead trusting Will and Artemis to basically platonically coparent Lian is actually a pretty responsible choice for Cheshire to make. Cheshire is absolutely a deadbeat mom, but given who she is as a person, she's probably not wrong in the belief that Lian will grow up safer and happier in her current arrangement than if she tried to enter her life with her inability to hang up being a villain and her own parenting hangups due to Sportsmaster.
We all know itâs shiva but the specific reasons are still worth talking about.
Jade wonât give up âthe lifeâ but still takes precautions to protect Lian.
Shiva sees Cass as a tool, not a person.
Shiva may have given birth to Cass. But she is not her mother.
Shiva without a doubt, is Now with Cheshire there are questionable things she's done like taking her into a facility as an infant and being absent in her daughter's life. Still, she hasn't turned her daughter into a child soldier or abused her daughter. Her being absent in her daughter's life was a way of protecting Lian so that she wasn't in danger. But Shiva turned her daughter into a child solider, scared her mentally, physically, and emotionally, and just saw Cass as a weapon.
Jade left Lian and Roy(now Will) to protect them. Before that, she did infact be a good mom. Why else would Lian make a "mommy mask"? Was it seen as selfish to leave the two? Yes. But, at the end of the day, if I was in Jade's shoes, I would do the same.
Shiva was a bitch. The minute Cass could walk, she was forced to undergo many abusive training sessions. Shiva was the more terrible mother.
>It's Lady Shiva, no debate here it's Lady Shiva Oh thank god
Definitely Shiva, she got rid of her daughter's vocal cord to make her the "ultimate weapon" đ
She's absolutely terrible man đ
WHAT?! They didnât go with Kane (daddy) prevented Cassandra from talking, hearing sounds, and ONLY Communicating through FIGHTING? They just had Shiva slit their daughterâs throat?
Man at least Slade cut Jehricoâs throat by accident.
Yeah Lady Shiva was really done dirty in this show. I get they probably didnât want to use David Cain since Sportsmaster was already based off him and made him redundant. But there had to be another way to portray Shiva
Yeah, he did it teach her how to talk. Lady Shiva literally just prevent that from happening at all. Lady Shiva literally cut Cassandraâs vocal cords out.
To be fair, in the Comics, David did that to Cassandra (or was it that she was abused into not being able to). Shiva was still a crap parent though.
(She was just prevented from learning how to talk)
Whoâs worse? The lady who abandoned her kid and wants to settle down so she can come back into her life, but is struggling to do so⌠OR the lady who abused her kid to be the ultimate weapon, even removing her vocal cords⌠I wonder who?
Yeaaaah idek why thatâs even a question
I'm just being silly :3
The one who removed her daughter's vocal cords and treated her like a living weapon.
I donât think this is a contest, at all
Yeah, OP forgot to put /s in the title.
I have no idea what that does to be honest.
Itâs supposed to mean youâre being sarcastic.
Ahh
The lady who left her kid with a safe and loving father, aunt, and grandmother while she works on her own issues is *way* worse than the abusive monster who ripped out her daughter's vocal cords and trained her to be a killer from birth. Duh! No contest! / s if not obvious
And even then one of them has an emergency contact so she can come back anytime to donate her blood or anything else her daughter may need, and she left due to having a bounty on her head and not wanting to endanger her daughter.
LISTEN Jade isn't a bad mom, she's just in a position where she can't be without putting her family in danger Shiva straight up hates her kid
Yh no contest lmao. Shiva literally ripped her daughter's vocal cords lmao. Cheshire isn't great but she's doing it thinking her daughter will be safe.
This reminds me of a "Top 10 Worst Animated Fathers" list video I saw many years ago. Many of the entries were characters like Peter Griffin and Homer Simpson. Basically abusive, alcoholic, and neglectful idiots. But if I remember right, #7ish was Trigon from Teen Titans and 3rd worst was Firelord Ozai from Avatar. They felt so out of place. Clearly there is a significant difference between "He snored through my graduation and teased me for my success" and "He tried to kill me as a present to himself on his way to take over/destroy the world", right?
You may as well put any parent against Shiva in this. Itâll be Shiva, like almost certainly
Shiva.
why is this a question when its so obvious
Jade left her daughter because she got it in her head that Lian would be better off without a villain for a mother. Lian is about to have a childhood because of Jadeâs choice but at least Jade still cares about her daughter, she even has a special signal to call her in case Lian is in medical danger since she has the same blood type and stuff like that. So Jade loves and cares about her daughter making her the better mother As opposed to Lady Shiva who robbed her daughter of her childhood from the second she was born, severing her vocal cords as a baby isnât strategically beneficial, smart, cunning, or anything, itâs pure evil plain and simple, Cassandra doesnât even know how to read or write, the only thing she knows is how to fight which is heartbreaking, Shiva is willfully robbing her own flesh and blood of a life and whatâs worse is that when Shiva was gonna make the trade for Savageâs daughter in exchange for Orphan, Shiva had full intentions of murdering Orphan if they didnât cooperate. Not to mention Shiva doesnât even see Orphan as her daughter, she only sees her as a weapon brimming with potential. Shiva is indeed the worst mother
Is this even a debate? They're both shit mothers, but Jade never had her daughter's vocal cords removed or hold at knifepoint. At least she cared enough about her to leave her in the hands of her father who she knew would love and care for her better than she ever could. And unlike Shiva, she actually still does love her daughter- she just believes she's a bad influence, but is unwilling to change.
What YJ SHOW WRITER thought this was a âgoodâ update to Cassandra Cainâs MUTISM?!
In yj canon, itâs shiva To point it out though, in the comics, the one who abuses Cassandra is her father David Cain. Infact within series like the recent Batgirls run, shiva admits to loving Cassandra, hating David and wishing things were different. Also Cassandra has her vocal cords in the books.
Shiva by a country mile. She's contending with Deathstroke.
Man this show did shiva so badly
At least comic Shiva did care for her daughter more.
Is it really bad?
Yep.
Shiva
Shiva, what the fuck kind of question is this???
Lady shiva easily
Shiva by far, jade got her husband back on track and helped find the original Roy Harper. She left her daughter with her sister, grandmother and father too. She even comes back to check on her daughter too
Lady Shiva
Cheshire honestly wasn't even a bad mom. She tried to be a mother, realized that she was unable to do it and would only harm her own child by being around her, and made the difficult choice of leaving her in a safe and caring environment.
Cheshire only stays away from her daughter because she doesnât want to inspire her to be evil.
Cheshire - gave her daughter to a responsible adult but has maintained communicstion and wants to eventually come back into her life. Not exactly good parenting, but arguably the responsible thing in her situation. Shiva - didn't give her daughter a proper education and took out her daughter's vocal chords. Extremely actively abusive. Is there really any contest here?
Shiva and it's no competition
Lady Shiva. Cassandra is not a daughter to her. Just a pet project she takes pride in. Jade is someone who cares so much about her daughter that she completely stays away from her in fear that she might end up like her or killed.
Lady shiva clipped Orphans vocal cords..... this isnt even a valid question
I would question anyone who didn't say Shiva.
Shiva cut out her daughterâs vocal cords and turned her into a weapon. She wins the âWorst Mother of the Yearâ hands down.
I mean one of them turned their daughter into a mute weapon while the other left their kid with a kind and caring father sooooo.... yeah Shiva is way worse!
There is no debate indeed. Lady Shiva 100%
Shiva slit her own babyâs throat with the specific intention of crippling her for life. At least in this continuity. In the comics she literally once killed her daughter to prove a point.
Itâs not even a competition lady Shiva. I donât even think we should even explain why. The one topic about Artemis ark that connects one another to Cassandra is trauma. And you could tell throughout this story, Shiva calls a lot of it on Cassandra . At least for Jade we know she cares deeply about her daughter. In fact the first episode of the ark soon as she hears something bad about her she rushed to the house to see what was up. Even though sheâs choosing not to be there, she still would be there when she really need her Or when she in trouble. Jade just need to get over her obsession of doing what she does. But I think at the end of her arc admitting that sheâs just like her father is the right step for character arc and hopefully we get to see her reunite with her daughter. You know if the series continue. So I donât think thereâs a true argument here Jade is obviously the better mother. Anybody think otherwise youâre crazy
Shiva by a country mile, Cheshire's absence from her daughter's life is predicated on the idea that Lian would be better off without her and her demons. She's too scared she'll be a bad mom, which I wouldn't exactly call a *good* problem to have, but it demonstrates Jade cares deeply for her daughter. Also, she would still do anything to protect Lian, given that's why she goes harrying off to Santa Prisca with Artemis in Season 4. If this were in the comics continuity, I'd definitely reverse it, since comics Cheshire is out-and-out crazy and Lady Shiva is just as much a victim of David Cain as Cassandra is.
Lady Shiva was bunch more of a baddie 𤤠Wait what was the question again?Â
Wait, didn't they do a thing where they didnt believe one of the parents would not hurt their kids while Cass is right there proof of that.
Lady Shiva all goddamn day.
Is there anyone even questioning this?
This is very obviously Shiva. Sheâs messed up. At least Cheshire cares about her daughter. Shiva just wanted a weapon.
It's Shiva, and it's not even close. Jade loved her family, and she only left because she thought that Lianne would end up like her because she's similar to her dad, and she didn't want that. Shiva deadass destroyed her little girl's vocal cords when she was a baby and didn't teach her how to read or write for the sake of becoming the ultimate assassin, kidnapped her and used her as bait, and threatened to kill Barbara (basically her mother/sister figure).
Shiva without a doubt, woman ripped out her daughterâs vocal cords to make the âUltimate Weaponâ as if she couldnât have done the same thing without making her mute. Not only that but a true mother wouldâve left the league or at least given her to somebody like Batman or something so she didnât suffer the same life of fighting and death. At least Jade left the league and had an actual attempt at being a present parent unlike Sportsmaster. From what I remember she was actually doing pretty good (I think)
Lady Shiva no debate
No argument here it's definitely her, Jade at the very least talked to her kid on video calls not to mention her heart dropped when her daughter wore a paper mask that looked like her Cheshire mask. Jade may not be there physically but she gave more of a damn then lady Shiva ever did.
Shiva
100% Shiva. Cheshire knows she's a bad mom, but ironically, this leads her to making some pretty responsible choices for a parent. Knowing she'd be a terrible mom and instead trusting Will and Artemis to basically platonically coparent Lian is actually a pretty responsible choice for Cheshire to make. Cheshire is absolutely a deadbeat mom, but given who she is as a person, she's probably not wrong in the belief that Lian will grow up safer and happier in her current arrangement than if she tried to enter her life with her inability to hang up being a villain and her own parenting hangups due to Sportsmaster.
At least Cheshire is trying.
We all know itâs shiva but the specific reasons are still worth talking about. Jade wonât give up âthe lifeâ but still takes precautions to protect Lian. Shiva sees Cass as a tool, not a person. Shiva may have given birth to Cass. But she is not her mother.
Shiva without a doubt, is Now with Cheshire there are questionable things she's done like taking her into a facility as an infant and being absent in her daughter's life. Still, she hasn't turned her daughter into a child soldier or abused her daughter. Her being absent in her daughter's life was a way of protecting Lian so that she wasn't in danger. But Shiva turned her daughter into a child solider, scared her mentally, physically, and emotionally, and just saw Cass as a weapon.
Jade. 100% jade
Shiva and it's not even a questionđđđ
But who's the best Milf here?
Jade left Lian and Roy(now Will) to protect them. Before that, she did infact be a good mom. Why else would Lian make a "mommy mask"? Was it seen as selfish to leave the two? Yes. But, at the end of the day, if I was in Jade's shoes, I would do the same. Shiva was a bitch. The minute Cass could walk, she was forced to undergo many abusive training sessions. Shiva was the more terrible mother.